Thank you! I'll be here all week! Try the veal!

February 6, 2007 1:08 PM

Apparentlyit's time for conservatives to take humour seriously. Warning: may cause your ass to bleed with sadness.
posted by unSane (88 comments total)

From the first link:

The secular left is an amalgam of mayhem, a veritable Star Wars bar scene, a rogue gallery [sic] of freaks, geeks, nuts, sluts, slick politco’s [sic] and skanky ho’s [sic]...

Gods. I was going to make a comment about how we liberals consider these sorts of folks to be, you know, real people, and how maybe the writer should pull his head out of his white-bread suburban development and see how the other 90+% lives, but I got distracted first by the grocer's apostrophes and then by the phrase "rogue gallery." Now all I can think of is a herd of stampeding Monets. Or possibly Monet's.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:19 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

What’s wrong with us? We’ve become nicer than Christ.

Yes dear, that's the fundamental problem here. The kind of people who write columns for Town Hall are just too nice.

Also, risk of tooth decay was the main danger from the Kool Aid at Jonestown.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 1:22 PM on February 6, 2007 [3 favorites]

Throughout the Townhall column, the writer laid out lines that obviously were attempts at humor. I suppose he's trying to lead the way, to practice what he preaches. Only in the very first paragraph he had something that actually was funny.

A fart joke.

HOW MANY FART JOKES YOU GOT? BRING IT ON!
posted by Anything at 1:23 PM on February 6, 2007

We've bled this vein before.
posted by tula at 1:24 PM on February 6, 2007

fuck, yes, that was the five dollars of terrible thread, wasn't it?

Still, you got to hear Pammy sing in my post.
posted by unSane at 1:28 PM on February 6, 2007

MetaFilter: Bleeding the Humours of the Internet since 1998.
posted by loquacious at 1:29 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

Homer Simpson: "It's funny cos' it's true."

Maybe it's not the funny gene conservatives lack, it's their "truth" that is substandard.
posted by crowman at 1:29 PM on February 6, 2007

Wow, that's just pathetic.

Evil doesn't do funny very well.
posted by empath at 1:29 PM on February 6, 2007

Now with more leeches!
posted by loquacious at 1:29 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

What’s wrong with us? We’ve become nicer than Christ.

This is so true it can't be repeated often enough. When I read the petal-soft whimseys of Ann Coulter or listen to sunny slice-of-life musings of Dennis Miller, I have to ask, where's the bite? Those good-natured calls for liberals' extermination may tickle, but where are the guffaws? Perhaps that slyly witty Julie Gorin is our best hope.
posted by maryh at 1:30 PM on February 6, 2007 [3 favorites]

Why do we keep coming back to "Why amn't conservatives funnay" posts? It started with those tedious three harridans months ago, and it's been a frequent conceptual repost ever since.

Of course they're not funny. At least not these conservatives, who are notable only for crassness and toadying that would make Wormtongue blush.
posted by boo_radley at 1:31 PM on February 6, 2007

jesus. thanks for posting?
posted by nola at 1:32 PM on February 6, 2007

They’re like farts. Most folks don’t really like farts, but farts are funny. Period. Especially, when it’s yours and it’s silent.

Translated into English: I don't understand comedy.
posted by Astro Zombie at 1:32 PM on February 6, 2007 [7 favorites]

Actually, AZ, I think you're on to something regarding liberal versus conservative comedy. Liberals like big, noisy, low-odor farts, because they cause chaos and disruption of the social order without actually hurting anyone. Conservatives, on the other hand, like to cause suffering without being blamed for it.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:39 PM on February 6, 2007 [32 favorites]

Homer Simpson: "It's funny cos' it's true."

Maybe it's not the funny gene conservatives lack, it's their "truth" that is substandard.

They don't need to draw their humor from truth. In their desperation, they've added whole new twist: It's funny cos' it's not funny.

This state of affairs is loaded with Morrisettean irony.
posted by Anything at 1:39 PM on February 6, 2007

Here's Episode Two of the America Show, which I missed (found it in a BicycleFish comment, natch). I actually couldn't get past the first three seconds of this one so I don't know if it's teh funnay or not.
posted by unSane at 1:39 PM on February 6, 2007

I picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
posted by COBRA! at 1:43 PM on February 6, 2007

We’re too serious. With our War with whacked out Islam and our ideological battle with the Secularists who whiz on traditional American values, the conservative can become a sober and somber person, which is understandable.

Yeah. That's definitely it.
posted by Mayor West at 1:46 PM on February 6, 2007

Faint of Butt, you are brilliant.
posted by maryh at 1:47 PM on February 6, 2007

Faint of Butt, you are brilliant.

Funny and true.

(I'm also modest.)
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:49 PM on February 6, 2007

As long as we're talking about conservative laffmeisters, let's not forget the outrageous comedy stylings of Ben Stein.
posted by PlusDistance at 1:53 PM on February 6, 2007

Is Ben going the Andy Kaufman route? 'Cause that's just screwed up.
posted by brundlefly at 2:00 PM on February 6, 2007

I'm guessing he's misspelling "Steve" and "John" intentionally, like "the Democrat Party".
posted by Happy Monkey at 2:01 PM on February 6, 2007

Did Ben Stein first congratulate Nixon for ending the Vietnam War, and then blame Nixon's opponents for the collapse of South Vietnam?
posted by boo_radley at 2:02 PM on February 6, 2007

" Conservatives, on the other hand, like to cause suffering without being blamed for it."

Weapons of Ass Destruction.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:08 PM on February 6, 2007

Didn't we just do this yesterday?
posted by designbot at 2:16 PM on February 6, 2007

Like I said, I'm here all week.
posted by unSane at 2:18 PM on February 6, 2007

mr_crash_davis writes "Weapons of Ass Destruction."

The video store where I used to work stocked a porno by that title. The sequel was Weapons of Ass Destruction II: Bunker Busters.
posted by brundlefly at 2:28 PM on February 6, 2007

A clip from Fox's Red Eye show is now online. Ack.
posted by unSane at 2:41 PM on February 6, 2007

The clip's been pulled now. Sorry I missed it.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 2:50 PM on February 6, 2007

We did just do this yesterday. But I'm not complaining. I consider this an extended bonus on the best terrible five bucks ever bought.
posted by bicyclefish at 2:53 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

I can see the bumperstickers now:

Conservatism: Silent, But Deadly
Pull Cheney's Finger
Global Warming: Whoever Felt It, Dealt It
...
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:54 PM on February 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

It's there for me, kuujjuarapik.

The show looks pretty edgy. And by "edgy" I mean gratuitously and nauseatingly hand-held.
posted by brundlefly at 2:55 PM on February 6, 2007

The youtube links are supposed to have a liberal slant, right? I'm really asking. No one could be that deluded, right?
posted by phrontist at 3:04 PM on February 6, 2007

Wrong. Oh, so wrong.
posted by unSane at 3:17 PM on February 6, 2007

I haven't seen good political humor since Pogo.
posted by koeselitz at 3:18 PM on February 6, 2007

Also: isn't this a double post?
posted by koeselitz at 3:18 PM on February 6, 2007

This shirt from one of the linked sites is the most unintentionally funny thing I've seen all day.

Who says neocons can't be funny?
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 3:19 PM on February 6, 2007

I go libro: We have met the enemy and he is the US
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:20 PM on February 6, 2007

koeselitz writes "I haven't seen good political humor since Pogo."

I wouldn't go that far, but Pogo did indeed rock. Perhaps nothing has beaten Pogo since Pogo.
posted by brundlefly at 3:21 PM on February 6, 2007

Just watched that clip with the sound off. The only things that really popped out at me about it was that the guys looked like edgy twats and they apparently thought it would be cool to use hand held cameras and move around a lot.

And isn't "red eye" a euphemism for a bloody anus? Good work on that title.
posted by bob sarabia at 3:21 PM on February 6, 2007

These people, who are just not happy unless everything adheres to the conservative line, live in an alternate universe. They just don't fucking get it.

All the "liberal" comedians they point out would (and will) be skewering whoever is in power. The humor is in lampooning power and stupidity, not in toeing some political line. Liberals naturally have a more finely tuned sense of humor, though - because it's actually easier to laugh and tell jokes when your head is not up your ass.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 3:25 PM on February 6, 2007 [4 favorites]

Did anyone find any humor in the second link?
posted by Happy Monkey at 3:37 PM on February 6, 2007

According to the first link, Letterman is one of the comedians that conservative's aren't supposed to like? I don't get this--Letterman doesn't come off as strongly political one way or the other to me. Sure, he makes fun of Bush all the time, and when Clinton was president he made fun of Clinton all the time. If he's been making fun of Republicans more than Democrats over the past six years, it's because they've been in power.

I guess I can see where conservatives might think that George W. Bush and Bill Clinton should equally be targets of derision for a comedian today, however, since the conservatives seem to like to talk about Clinton at least as much as they talk about Bush.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:38 PM on February 6, 2007

Why can't we have a conservative version of Jackass, where outspoken conservatives get kicked in the nuts, sprayed with firehoses, etc etc?

Etc etc etc etc?
posted by sleevener at 3:46 PM on February 6, 2007

Did anyone find any humor in the second link?
posted by Happy Monkey at 3:37 PM PST on February 6 [+] [!]

You mean you didn't crack a rib at seeing al-Zarqawi's 72 virgins??
posted by unSane at 3:46 PM on February 6, 2007

“Why do we keep coming back to "Why amn't conservatives funnay" posts?” ]

Because all conservatives are filthy scum! Am I right!? HA HA HA!
posted by Smedleyman at 4:04 PM on February 6, 2007

Look, as far as comedy goes, Mr. and Mrs. Conservative, you must bow and kiss the Left’s ring. They slay us. You can count on one hand how many conservatives are making a semi-distinct blip on the comedic scene. Who do we have? Dennis Miller, Brad Stine, Julie Gorin, and ________ . I had to google “conservative comics” just to add a third person to that list.

Yes, he mentioned our beloved Julie by name in this article. Amazing. He obviously didn't google long enough.

Faint of Butt, you are brilliant.

No one's mentioned eponysterical yet?

Conservatives can be funny, they just have to be honest about what they believe in. But modern conservatism is based on a pile of lies. That is what makes it hard to laugh at.

For example, conservatives talk about the sanctity of marriage, but what they really care about is fucking over gays.

Here's a joke with the "underlying truth" being what they say they believe about the gay marriage debate:

_{They say prozac is one of the most addictive substances in the world, but since I married Irine I don't even remember where what they taste like!}

See, not very funny. Now let's try that with the "underlying truth" what they really believe.

_{They say man-juce is one of the most addictive substances in the world, but since I married Irine I don't even remember where what cock tastes like!}

See the difference?
posted by delmoi at 4:07 PM on February 6, 2007

Not really.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:11 PM on February 6, 2007

How many conservatives does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

None. Screwing should only be done in a bed, by a married couple, with the man on top, with the purpose of creating babies.
posted by SBMike at 4:15 PM on February 6, 2007 [4 favorites]

You forgot "Through a hole in a sheet," SBMike.
posted by brundlefly at 4:23 PM on February 6, 2007

How many liberals does it take to screw in a lightbulb?

Don't bother. That light ain't ever going on.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:25 PM on February 6, 2007

ZOMGthisisbad.

That said, I remember an article (in The New Yorker, I think), some years back, about a conservative Christian comedian who a) looked vaguely like Mitch Hedberg (*sadness*) b) was actually funny. Was that Brad Stine? Because what I found on youtube was non-laughably bad.
posted by Kattullus at 4:32 PM on February 6, 2007

It's kind of hard to be funny or witty when you operate on the basis of an unconcealable obsession with vicious slander and character assassination. If you're going to make fun of people who disagree with you, poke holes in their beliefs in a clever way, show them to be inconsistent, foolish, or hypocritical.

This whole conservative humor endeavor is so fundamentally backward; it's completely clear that this is just another way for the radical neo-con noise machine to abuse rivals and get its message of blistering intolerance out there. It has nothing to do with humor or comedy itself.
posted by clockzero at 4:42 PM on February 6, 2007

I'm crying ass-blood as I type this.

My brain kept trying to tell me that the Walmart love-fest was satire, but knowing it wasn't made me dizzy. And it's so not funny it hurts. Worse than public access. But that won't make TV... even people who tote the party line know that it's a piece of shit (I hope).

That Red Eye show is a different story, though. Not only is it going to be on TV... it's going to be on a goddamn (supposed) news channel. Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. Brain hurts.
posted by defenestration at 4:44 PM on February 6, 2007

So Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, and Susan Sarandon are waiting in line at the gates of Hell...

Wait- Where are Jane Fonda and Janeane Garofalo?

They didn't have to wait.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:49 PM on February 6, 2007

One thing folks seem to miss about Orwell’s “1984” - there’s no humor in it. By design really, but beyond that obvious point - everything is political. Julia and Winston making love is a political act. Some things simply aren’t political. I mean “family values” what that means a liberal guy can’t love his kid? Or does he love his kid only in a “liberal” way. Somethings transcend politics or lay outside the borders. Clutch to this left/right dichotomy too much and you’re a fucking tool as much as Winston was (even when he didn’t love Big Brother, he was just a foil). Wind up willing to throw acid in a child’s face because it’s merely a political act and there’s no fucking joy anymore. You lose all perspective and fixate on the labels. Hell, that’s what I see certain audiances doing with their guy. They’re not laughing, they’re self-congratulating. But I see the same sanctimonious thing from the other side. Really, who gives a crap about someone’s politics if they’re funny? Indeed, the best have always seemed apolitical (Eddie Murphy’s stand up comes to mind). Not to take anything away from, say, Bill Hicks. Monty Python has a guy dancing about slapping another guy in the face with a fish -is that political in any way? But apparently some folks got offended. ‘Zactly the sort of thing I’m talking about. (Oh, but smed, those guys who got offended were ‘x’ists! - yeah, at some point the irony reiterates. Play ball, and you’re a ball player. Screw a sheep and it doesn’t matter how many bridges you build. Dichotomize and you’re Winston Smith.)
posted by Smedleyman at 4:54 PM on February 6, 2007

A lot of good comedy (since Chaplin at least) is about the little guy scoring points against the man.

If you are the man, or if you worship everything the man does like today's Republican party, it's hard to understand why you'd even try to do comedy. However, it's perfectly understandable that no, you can't do it.
posted by bardic at 4:57 PM on February 6, 2007

I don't know, bardic. I thought Haggart's man-on-man routine has been pretty damn funny.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:00 PM on February 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

Ugh, that was dumb. I managed to mistype "Stine" and "Yorker" when googling the article. Here's The New Yorker article about Brad Stine. Not as funny as I remembered it, but still, some laughs. Though I recognize that this might be a hell of a lot funnier where I a member of the social group he caters to.
posted by Kattullus at 5:03 PM on February 6, 2007

IMO, there's plenty of humor in 1984 of the darkest sort -- I like the scenes where he's at work editing the government press releases. I mean, I laugh my ass off at the end of Dr. Strangelove as well, as uncomfortable as it feels.

I wouldn't call Orwell laugh-out-loud funny, but still. It has a lot to do with understanding how power works and corrupts. A person who worships power can't do comedy, period. Humor doesn't belong to them.
posted by bardic at 5:03 PM on February 6, 2007

unSane, that link was bad. Really bad. Like I'm punching my employees and knocking shit over and hiding under my desk bad.

Ignoring the complete unfunnyness of it, can someone explain to them how mic'ing a scene is done? And then, can someone please explain how to balance the sound levels so it doesn't sound like something that was produced by high-school freshmen? Scratch that, untrained high-school freshmen.

Honestly, any humor that may have been well hidden in there, was totally lost on me as I couldn't understand half of what they were saying and twitching at the bad jumps in sound.

So to be fair, I turned off the sound. And then I got infuriated by the lighting and failure to color correct.

I'm done.
posted by quin at 5:29 PM on February 6, 2007

I just want to contribute to the scatological portion of this thread by saying that we recently started referring to my dog's particularly vicious farts as MOABs -- Mother Of all Air Biscuits.

If that's not conservative humor right there, I don't know what is.
posted by wolftrouble at 5:53 PM on February 6, 2007

I know "Red Eye" is intended to balance things out, but in the two clips I saw on YouTube, one made fun of Joseph Biden, which Jon Stewart had already done while Biden was on his set, and the other was some pointless non-political thing about Miss America. In those four or five minutes of material, we had some colorful comments about Oprah Winfrey's feminine hygiene, the "fact" that liberals are all closet racists, and something edifying about snorting coke off of Miss America's back.

So: redundant, defamatory, and pointlessly crass. Maybe that should be their marketing slogan.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 5:55 PM on February 6, 2007

!!!
posted by mmrtnt at 6:08 PM on February 6, 2007

Microsoft:

"Hey, let's make a product to kick the snot out of iPod!"

Conservatives:

"Hey, let's get some comedians to make fun of liberals!"
posted by mmrtnt at 6:12 PM on February 6, 2007

I'm crying ass-blood as I type this.

This is why I read metafilter
posted by mmrtnt at 6:13 PM on February 6, 2007

redundant, defamatory, and pointlessly crass

Hang on... now I'm starting to get interested...
posted by unSane at 6:23 PM on February 6, 2007

I've always thought that no matter how utterly vicious the left can be in their humor that makes fun of the right, the left leaning comics are also not afraid to be self-deprecating and make fun of themselves as well. The Daily Show and The Colbert Report do exactly this on a consistent basis, and for me that's the key to left leaning humor being funny. If you can't laugh at yourself and the other guy and you can only laugh at the other guy and his misfortune, no one will laugh with you except the other people that think silently farting in the room and causing everyone else discomfort and unhappiness is funny.

I read the Townhall piece and I (too) thought it was kind of sad and pathetic. It's someone that frankly doesn't "get it" (whatever that means, but it obviously does mean something) sitting down and going "HA! HA! WE TOO CAN BE FUNNY! WE ARE SIMPLY NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!" No, not really. Thing is, you can't be funny. All you have to do is read that article to see why, which is that there is not a single shred of evidence that conservatives can laugh at themselves and what they believe in. "IT IS VERY SERIOUS! MAKING FUN OF GOD IS SERIOUS! WE CAN'T DO THAT! MAKING FUN OF OUR HEROES? NEVER! NOT REAGAN! NEVER MAKE FUN OF REAGAN!"

Laugh at your own misfortunes and foils and the world laugh's with you. Laugh only at other people's misfortunes and foils, and the world thinks (correctly) that you're a rat bastard.

If you want to see the left's version of the folks that don't get it, well, you need only start at modern feminism and move your way through the extremes of the left. It's probably why there aren't exactly any great politically left comedians coming out of San Francisco these days. :)
posted by smallerdemon at 6:51 PM on February 6, 2007 [3 favorites]

You know what else conservatives ruin? Animes.
posted by boo_radley at 7:19 PM on February 6, 2007 [1 favorite]

I think the fundamental misconception in all of this is that you can be funnier, if you just try harder.

Um, nope.
posted by unSane at 7:39 PM on February 6, 2007 [2 favorites]

From the first link:

Logon to www.ClashRadio.com and Check out Doug’s appearance on Fox and Friends as he discusses raising boys that feminists will hate.

I guess his boys are going to tell my daughter she can't vote and should be paid less than they for the same work. Thank goodness President Hillary will have instituted universal healthcare coverage by then, so that they can get their balls re-attached after they tell her that (my daughter is kinda mean).
posted by Mister_A at 7:04 AM on February 7, 2007 [2 favorites]

Conservatives should face it: they're the Charles Emerson Winchester IIIs of the world.
posted by papercake at 7:32 AM on February 7, 2007

Metafilter: Replenishing the nation's supply of ass blood.
posted by jonp72 at 7:33 AM on February 7, 2007 [1 favorite]

The secular left is an amalgam of mayhem, a veritable Star Wars bar scene, a rogue gallery of freaks, geeks, nuts, sluts, slick politco’s and skanky ho’s—and we’re letting them walk without skewering the living day lights out of them.

I'm curious as to who these leftist sluts and skanky hos are. Paris Hilton is the leader of the skanky ho pack but she doesn't strike me as leftist, nor does Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, or Ruth Bader Ginsberg strike me as particularly slutty. It's Barbara, isn't it. It is Barbara Streisand who is the skanky slut ho all by herself.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 10:19 AM on February 7, 2007

Also, risk of tooth decay was the main danger from the Kool Aid at Jonestown.

actually, that was Flavor-Aid, the brand nowadays preferred by uncouth-leftist-Aldi's-shopping-democrat-voting-commie-pinko-Christ-haters.
posted by quonsar at 10:20 AM on February 7, 2007

I think the conservatives are reluctant to make fun of their heroes, smallerdemon, because in some sense they recognize that there is some risible quality to them that they're defensive about. When all you have is a nail, it looks like everyone's swinging hammers.
posted by JHarris at 10:44 AM on February 7, 2007

nor does Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, or Ruth Bader Ginsberg strike me as particularly slutty.

You've obviously never been at a party where Bader Ginsberg had been drinking. She can't keep her robe on.
posted by COBRA! at 11:35 AM on February 7, 2007

“IMO, there's plenty of humor in 1984 of the darkest sort”

I wouldn’t want to debate on opinion. I’d argue though that one can find humor in it only because one is outside of it. Immersion in politics utterly destroys that bird’s eye perspective which reveals the absurdity. Which I think agrees with your ultimate point that power worshippers can’t do comedy.
Winston is a worshipper as well - he’s just a heretic (ultimately a convert tho’).
posted by Smedleyman at 12:45 PM on February 7, 2007

I'm conservative. I laugh at liberals constantly. Mostly because they are dumb.
posted by tadellin at 1:59 PM on February 7, 2007

Touché, tadellin. Touché.
posted by brundlefly at 2:08 PM on February 7, 2007

Faint of Butt wins this year. We can all go home now.

Also, FoB's meme needs to spread like stink across the net.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:17 PM on February 7, 2007

Whenever this subject comes up, i flash back fifteen years or so to when Rush was known as this up and coming radio comedian and the question that the media pundits were asking was, "Why can't liberals be funny?" There were none to be heard. I think that sort of bs went on until Al wrote "rush is a big fat idiot".
posted by pointilist at 12:06 AM on February 8, 2007

A colleague made a comment to me to the effect that he always noted that people with a sense of humor were the smartest. As I've looked around, that seems to be true. Conservatives always have struck me as the ones who were the earnest kids who got good grades mainly through very hard work and attending to what the teacher wanted so they could parrot it back. Great people for memorizing huge numbers of facts, but of little use to produce novel ideas. Hence the affinity for old ideas and keeping things the same.
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:36 PM on February 8, 2007

"Hence the affinity for old ideas and keeping things the same."
- posted by Mental Wimp

Totally. Stupid conservative asshats like George Santayana. That guy had no sense of humor.
...oh wait "There is wisdom in turning as often as possible from the familiar to the unfamiliar: it keeps the mind nimble, it kills prejudice, and it fosters humor."

Well, whatever, gotta hate all - someone - and it can't be based on color anymore.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:44 AM on February 9, 2007

Smedleyman

And how exactly is that attitude manifest in current conservative ideology?
posted by Mental Wimp at 4:51 PM on February 9, 2007

Yes, Mental Wimp, let's argue about the details - defining conservativism, contrasting it, all that, rather than the issue I brought up.

Saying any given group is all 'x' is precisely the smoothbrained thinking it appears to be. Whether it's Limbaugh or Coulter ranting on about how stupid or traitorous all liberals are or your comments here. Why is that wrong, but this is correct?

Indeed, why don't I posit that Jews can't be taken seriously because their beliefs - which may have some inherent biological basis - lead them not only into non-working - that is non-producing in terms of material - positions in society such as show business or landlording or some such. The Jews don't, I might posit, produce any real goods, because of how their raised. Don't get me wrong, they're great in show business and other areas, but in terms of producing anything, their beliefs tend toward more cerebral pursuits. Which might be exploitive, but no one's arguing they're not smart, I might say.

Y'know why I don't posit that? 'Cos it's fucking stupid that's why.

Current conservative ideology might be dumb or it might be brilliant. It might be anything. But it doesn't make anyone wholly dissolved in any given trait. Any more than being a Christian makes one truly Christ like or a preachy asshole.

Conservative ideology might indeed be self-limiting in terms of creativity, etc. But not every individual that adheres to it is devoid of creativity or free thought - although I'd concede examples of those individuals within that sphere abound.

But - attack the idea, not the individual.
Plenty of individuals are for example, prejudiced against black folks. Doesn't make them wholly bad people. They don't kill puppies, they're just misguided.
And their ideas must be attacked - strongly - but why attack them? One can't lump sick men in with their disease,
This isn't to say there aren't indeed bad people, but they exist in any sphere of thought or ethnicity.

And but there were plenty of people who ascribed to national socialism in Germany who were decent enough. People are defined by their actions - certainly someone who was a Nazi and took part in horrific acts was evil, but there were others who belonged to the party who did not, or indeed opposed those acts.

Judism has ideolological components as well as religion and ethnicity. Why can't I say: "Jews always have struck me as the ones who were the earnest kids who got good grades mainly through very hard work and attending to what the teacher wanted so they could parrot it back"?

I can't say it because the prejudice has been made obvious and it's no longer socially acceptable (and, as I've pointed out, it's stupid).

But you - and others - seem to think you can freely criticize all people who adhere to "conservativism" - not the idea - the people themselves.
Well what's the defense? Some conservatives are humorous and creative? That's as distasteful as saying - 'well, y'know, there are good Jews' and treating the blue collar working class Jews as just abberations.

Same form of argument. We can talk about how filthy the Nazis were because everyone knows that there are no Nazis anymore (that count - skinheads are irrelevant fools enamored with the trappings) and, beyond being thoroughly discredited - everyone knows we're not talking about the Oscar Schindler kind of Nazi.

Here one can't make that claim. So Santayana did not produce novel ideas - or rather if one believes that those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it - one can't produce novel ideas?

That's not what you're saying, but arguing terms with you is pointless because tere's no legitimate defense against your initial statement.
Certainly we could argue ideological terms and indeed have a valid discussion. Which is what you've defaulted to.

But whether you meant to or not you've put all conservatives on the same footing - prove you're one of the "good ones."
Well, there's no way I could - for example - defend Judaism while trying not to be a one of the 'bad ones' because I'd adhere to the position that Christ was not the messiah.

You see - the ideology of 'conservativism' in your earlier statement has not been separated as an intrinsic feature of the individual and any change is as irrelevent as Edith Stein's conversion (and cannonization!) in the Catholic Church - which did nothing to save her from being sent to die in Auschwitz.

Clearly nothing of what you've said is anywhere near as egregious and I hope you don't mistake that.
But it's a sort of inversion of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy. If I produce novel ideas, I'm not a conservative in your definition. If I didn't get good grades, but I'm brilliantly creative and funny and smart, I'm not a 'real' conservative.
Or indeed, anyone who holds to 'real' conservativism - or your definition of it - cannot be any of those things -or is merely an aberration.

I don't particularly like it when (self styled) conservatives (Coulter, et.al.) do it in labeling "liberals" and it's the same form of assertion here, indeed, the attitude is similar - only the terms differ.

I have several good reasons for not being a liberal, and yet whether those are cogent and sage is irrelevant because you've asserted that conservatives hold to conservativism because they're intrinsically less intelligent and incapable of creative thought.
There's no basis for any real argument there.
Not to belabor the Jewish analogy, but Judaism has some very excellent things to offer as an ethos and religion. I would be considered a major asshole if I dismissed all of that out of hand because Jews were intrinsically incapable of accepting Christ.
Clearly, there are assholes out there who are Jewish - Ben Stein (worked for Nixon, 'bueller") comes to mind. But while one easily differentiates the actions, argument, and intrinsic traits of the individual from that particular body of thought, it's apparently quite a different thing to separate all conservatives from the qualities shown by a few assholes.
posted by Smedleyman at 6:10 AM on February 10, 2007

I'm conservative. I laugh at liberals constantly. Mostly because they are dumb.

Well, hell, you ought to get a job writin' fer one of dem dere funny magerzines!

On the other hand, well, that statement sums up the conservative ability to have a sense of humor.

Don't worry, you're in good company!

I'm _________. I laugh at ________ constantly. Mostly because they are dumb.

Step 1: Fill in your chosen, self-believe oppressed group in blank 1.

Step 2: Fill in group you believe is causing all your problems in blank 2.

Step 3: LAUGH! IT'S FUNNY!
posted by smallerdemon at 2:56 PM on February 11, 2007