Comments on: Barack Obama Announces Presidential Bid

Barack Obama Announces Presidential Bid

patr1ck — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:26:38 -0800

is running for president. [Previously: 1, 2]

By: patr1ck

patr1ck — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:27:14 -0800

Sorry, couldn't help myself with the ytmnd link. The song is just too great.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:27:51 -0800

Holy shit, really?

By: slimepuppy

slimepuppy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:32:42 -0800

Neat. I guess.

By: phaedon

phaedon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:32:49 -0800

Biraq?

By: zenzizi

zenzizi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:33:40 -0800

GO BARACK!! [/enthusiasticOutsider]

By: clevershark

clevershark — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:36:05 -0800

I had no idea!

By: hoverboards don't work on water

hoverboards don't work on water — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:39:03 -0800

Ytmnd for President.

By: chasing

chasing — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:44:05 -0800

Great. The more good candidates, the better. I'm not sure he's my final choice at this point, but Obama seems like he'd make a fine President.

By: nathancaswell

nathancaswell — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:50:44 -0800

His speech started slowly but boy, once he got going he got going.

By: Frank Grimes

Frank Grimes — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 09:50:53 -0800

OBAMA08 kind of looks like a palindrome and his logo looks like he borrowed it from Bank of America.

By: JamesToast

JamesToast — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:00:31 -0800

I have to admit that when I read the title my first thought was that this had happened already, weeks ago, but that was just an announcement regarding his exploratory committee. I hope Gore enters the fray. (Rolling Stone article about the chances of Gore entering the fray) 2008 is looking much more promising than 2004. In 2004 I begrudgingly supported the Kerry campaign- I had been hoping for Howard Dean, who fell out of the running for reasons I still don't understand. This time there are actual choices. I could be happy with Clinton as president, or very happy with Obama. If Gore enters I will be ecstatic.

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:03:25 -0800

He makes everybody else look small, doesn't he? What's stopped us from meeting these challenges is not the absence of sound policies and sensible plans. What's stopped us is the failure of leadership, the smallness of our politics - the ease with which we're distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions, our preference for scoring cheap political points instead of rolling up our sleeves and building a working consensus to tackle big problems. People are going to knock Obama for not having any concrete proposals. But people don't give a shit about plans. As long as he can keep making speeches like that one, he's going to walk away with this thing. I really want to believe in this guy. I don't know why, but I do.

By: WetherMan

WetherMan — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:03:56 -0800

Is anyone else having problems using his website? I can't sign up for anything, view video's, or load the "my" pages. ... methinks the webmaster didn't make his deadlines...?

By: four panels

four panels — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:04:35 -0800

I am a progressive, but if its between McCain and Hillary, I will vote for John McCain. If it's between Obama and McCain, it's Obama. I have a feeling Howard Dean wants Obama, too.

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:06:02 -0800

I think Gore will end up backing Obama, too. The only thing that will get Gore into the campaign would be if Obama's campaign implodes.

By: wfc123

wfc123 — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:11:29 -0800

"Sorry, 'Obama' sounds like 'Osama', so I won't vote for him." Yes, this is what many Americans are thinking/saying. What a country.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:12:08 -0800

I'm still voting for Hodgman and his Reptiloid masters.

By: srboisvert

srboisvert — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:13:19 -0800

Charismatic leaders are not a good thing.

By: hoverboards don't work on water

hoverboards don't work on water — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:14:00 -0800

Yes, this is what many Americans are thinking/saying. Which ones?

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:16:41 -0800

By: banished

banished — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:20:20 -0800

Obama should win. Hillary will win. :(

By: banished

banished — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:20:58 -0800

hoverboards don't work on water... the ones that live in the South.

By: TheOnlyCoolTim

TheOnlyCoolTim — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:22:36 -0800

So the Democrats are probably going to put up either a black man or a woman. Four more years Republican.

By: nathancaswell

nathancaswell — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:22:57 -0800

Because our country is bruised and bleeding and someone who inspires hope and who represents the complete opposite of every miserable thing America has come to mean in the past seven years is exactly what we need right now?

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:24:50 -0800

Bear? Ack! Wait, wrong thread.

By: graventy

graventy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:28:07 -0800

Man, that song is awesome.

By: hoverboards don't work on water

hoverboards don't work on water — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:29:38 -0800

Come on banished, maybe you could get away with saying Southerners will hate him for being black, but hating him for the spelling of his name? Do you really think that is the case? It seems to me that sweeping prejudiced generalizations against Southerners are not what this guy is about.

By: fungible

fungible — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:30:49 -0800

cenoxo, you're right. But as you know, politics these days isn't about how good you'll be as president, it's if you can win. And it appears that the less experience you have, the more likely it is to happen.

By: etaoin

etaoin — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:32:15 -0800

I am a progressive, but if its between McCain and Hillary, I will vote for John McCain. Curious. Care to explain further?

By: MegoSteve

MegoSteve — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:32:19 -0800

As a graphic designer, I look at Obama's logo and am very disappointed. Who talked him into that wimpy serif face and bland Web 2.0-influenced design? Have we learned nothing from the debacle that was the Kerry Edwards 04 logo? (It looks like John Edwards has.)

By: growabrain

growabrain — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:33:01 -0800

You Are Completely Off Your Rocker, Sir

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:39:46 -0800

If he keeps comparing himself to lincoln, he's setting himself up for a big loss in the south, I'd think.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:42:25 -0800

I am a progressive, but if its between McCain and Hillary, I will vote for John McCain. How exactly does that make you progressive then? If you are willing to vote for a right wing nutcase like McCain just because you don't like Hillary, then your progressive ideals must be pretty darn superficial.

By: obvious

obvious — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:43:06 -0800

If he keeps comparing himself to lincoln, he's setting himself up for a big loss in the south, I'd think. Not to mention the "Lincoln was a Republican" play.

By: gordie

gordie — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:43:40 -0800

... the ones that live in the South. As a southerner, I have to disagree. Politely, of course, since that's just how all of us are.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:44:31 -0800

I am a progressive, but if its between McCain and Hillary, I will vote for John McCain. --four panels Are you fucking retarded? Or do you just not pay attention to politics much or what? Or do you just hate Iraqis and love war or what? I can't imagine any reasonable, non-neocon supporting McCain. Supporting Obama over Hillary, and McCain over Hillary is the most confused, nonsensical position one could take. McCain is the one who came up with the "surge" idea. If that's what you support then he's your guy. He's also been doing everything he can to mend fences with the craziest theocratic bible thumpers out there, like James Dobbson, etc.

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:45:02 -0800

You know.. It would be great if he was electable - and probably will be good for the campaign and motivating young and black voters ... but is he really ready? Out of the current crop I like Edwards and Richardson - but still think Schweitzer should run for prez - it would be a lock.

By: kid ichorous

kid ichorous — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:45:59 -0800

Obama's resume may be thick with personality and promise, but it's mighty thin on real-world experience. Why do Americans — Democrats and Republicans alike — insist upon interviewing (and ultimately hiring) people to be the country's CEO who have no real qualifications or backgound for the job? Because one of the primary functions of president is that of salesman. Not to create policy, but to vend it, to put a brand and a shine to it, and to build consensus around it. Bush is a terrible CEO, but he could sell a broken Cadillac to at least half the country. This is why we demand presidents who are tall, or handsome, or otherwise physically and personally likable.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:47:47 -0800

Barack running isn't the most interesting thing. What will really be interesting is who the final Democratic winner is and who that person selects as the VP. Oddly enough, I'm rooting for Hillary, simply because she's spent some time in the Senate, building relationships and learning from past mistakes. Barack really should finish out his Senate term. Edwards creeps me out because he wants it so bad.

By: I Foody

I Foody — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:48:05 -0800

I think Obama's logo is so good. It doesn't suffer from the same problems that Kerry's really bad logo did, it doesn't try and just copy Bush's logo either. I would have went with a san serif, but the logo smacks of purity suggests sunlight and optimism rather than power aggression. It is a good logo for a candidate like Obama since it wordlessly reinforces many of his themes.

By: I Foody

I Foody — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:52:23 -0800

Also I don't think the lesson of the Bush Presidency is about the danger of an inexperienced chief executive, but rather about an inexperienced chief executive who pridefully holds learning in contempt. Obama is the opposite of this in a couple important ways.

By: Cyrano

Cyrano — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:54:05 -0800

This just in from Pretty Fucking Obvious News: Sun still comes up in the east.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:54:39 -0800

Obama's resume may be thick with personality and promise, but it's mighty thin on real-world experience. Why do Americans — Democrats and Republicans alike — insist upon interviewing (and ultimately hiring) people to be the country's CEO who have no real qualifications or backgound for the job? Who else are we (democrats) going to pick? Chris Dodd? Joe Bidden? The top three democratic challengers senators with at most one and a quarter terms in office. Bill Richardson might make a good choice, but he's a minor candidate, (and he was supposedly involved in the Wen Ho Lee thing, which would make it difficult for me, personally, to support him).

By: phrontist

phrontist — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:56:55 -0800

people to be the country's CEO who have no real qualifications or backgound for the job? And that's where you totally miss the point. The position of president is not at all one of CEO. I'm in Kentucky right now for college (I'm from DC). I'm surrounded by red-staters. Hillary is the antichrist to almost everyone here. Barack is untainted, and I think he has a chance here. I'm willing to suspend my cynicism, and I hope I'm not alone.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:57:07 -0800

Since the Republicans prefer to run against Hillary, I expect to see some major attempts at "swift-boating" of Obama very quickly. Locally, I'm already seeing the really low-level, sub-grass-roots crap starting. People talking about how Obama is really a muslim. And, yes, the coincidental similarity between his name and Osama. Sadly, there are groups of people who respond to this stuff and, in an electorate that is pretty-much split 50/50, every little group can count. We are in for some very ugly stuff over the next year.

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:58:19 -0800

When I mentioned Obama to a friend, she said "Nobody will ever vote for him in the midwest or the south, he has no chance. Bush got elected because of that same divide, the south & the midwest aren't possibly ready to elect a progressive man of color to the Presidency." Do you guys think that's true? I have lived in California for so long I don't really know what to believe regarding what goes on in other states. Here I know he could get elected. He's the perfect anti-Bush... it's sad to say, but just the fact that he can run an intelligent sentence almost makes him worthy. And I do like him, so that makes me hopeful. My friend calls me naive.

By: LooseFilter

LooseFilter — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:00:21 -0800

As the last seven years have shown, the presidency of the United States is no place for on-the-job training. What, exactly, is appropriate training to be president of the United States? I don't think one can have training to do a job of that magnitude--only preparation, and that involves learning, character, etc.. It's a fallacious analogy to think of a president as a CEO, and I think the last eight years have proven how abysmally bad businessmen are at running the country. hoverboards don't work on water... the ones that live in the South. Pot, kettle; kettle, pot. That's an ignorant statement--all of my family is from the south, and still live there, and most are pretty excited about Obama's presidential bid. Several fundamentalist Christians I know here in central California are also very interested in him as a candidate, and very open to voting for him (and these are people who, until about two years ago, were huge Bush supporters).

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:02:06 -0800

I hope Gore enters the fray. Fuck that noise. Let's not forget who was Gore's running mate: Joe "Bomb Iraq - Bomb Iran" Liberman. The only Democrat more pro-war than Dick Cheney. Gore is bruised fruit. Obama's resume may be thick with personality and promise, but it's mighty thin on real-world experience. That, in my opinion, is a bonus. He's not corrupted by the Libermans of the "Democrat" party and won't be carrying water for them.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:05:15 -0800

Charismatic leaders are not a good thing. posted by srboisvert Agreed. Being overwhelmed by the force of someone else's personality means that you have little if any real internal anchors and any sweet talker can get your pants off.

By: phrontist

phrontist — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:09:12 -0800

Do you guys think that's true? I have lived in California for so long I don't really know what to believe regarding what goes on in other states. I'll say it again. I'm in kentucky. I've got some pretty radical christian friends, and they don't know about Barack. I'm curious to see how things play out, but I think many southerners can identify with his faith.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:10:11 -0800

When I mentioned Obama to a friend, she said "Nobody will ever vote for him in the midwest or the south, he has no chance. Bush got elected because of that same divide, the south & the midwest aren't possibly ready to elect a progressive man of color to the Presidency." I live in Iowa, and I'll actually be going to see Obama speak tomorrow. They had to move the event from a gym to Hilton Coliseum because so many people were getting tickets. I don't know about the south, but I don't know why so many people think people in the midwest wouldn't vote for a black guy. Also, Harold Ford came close to winning the senate seat in TN.

By: hoverboards don't work on water

hoverboards don't work on water — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:10:42 -0800

And, yes, the coincidental similarity between his name and Osama. I ask again, who is really saying this? It reminds me of "Bush == Chimp" - an insult, but not something that will actually swing votes. Non-Democrats have plenty of real reasons to dislike Obama, just like non-Republicans have plenty of legitimate grievances with Bush.

By: geekhorde

geekhorde — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:11:43 -0800

I am a Southerner. I live in the South. And he had me captivated.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:13:33 -0800

I have to agree with Rolling Stone's analysis: if Gore waits and enters after the initial Hillary/Obama/Edwards knifefights have begun, it's a cakewalk to the WH for him. Gore would definitely get my vote. On a bit of an aside: Edwards has actually floated a very interesting health insurance concept. It actually has some meat and shows a lot of foresight. My opinion of him has gone up greatly. If he can articulate his vision well, I wouldn't count him out just yet.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:18:43 -0800

I ask again, who is really saying this? It's just one of those things that get passed around in informal groups. Who knows where it started? For all I know, it started from an offhand remark by some 3rd-string talk-radio moron. The fact is, it's out there. I mean...c'mon...when you first heard the name "Obama", are you saying your mind, somewhere down deep, didn't think "Osama"? Not in a way to connect the two but, rather, in a "hey, they rhyme!" way?

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:20:47 -0800

nathancaswell said: Because our country is bruised and bleeding and someone who inspires hope and who represents the complete opposite of every miserable thing America has come to mean in the past seven years is exactly what we need right now? Hope is a good thing: never deprive some of it if that's all they left. However, hope will not be enough to handle the serious practical problems facing America in the coming years, including, but not limited to: fallout — let's hope not literally — from the ever-chaotic situation in the Middle East; ongoing climatological (and agricultural) effects from global warming; ever-increasing demand for oil, coal, and other energy sources; the emerging Chinese juggernaut; a resurgent Russia; employment and wages under immigration and outsourcing pressure; affordable health care and education; et al. These will have to met and managed with something other than hopeful speeches. There are no perfect candidates or solutions, but let's have someone who has already wrestled, win or lose, with these kinds of national and international challenges. Barack Obama is not that person. three blind mice said: He's not corrupted by the Libermans of the "Democrat" party and won't be carrying water for them. If and when Obama — like any other fresh-faced 'Washington outsider' — makes it to the Presidency, he'll have to carry buckets of somebody's water to get there. And when you become President, baby, you're the ultimate Insider.

By: hoverboards don't work on water

hoverboards don't work on water — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:26:38 -0800

I mean...c'mon...when you first heard the name "Obama", are you saying your mind, somewhere down deep, didn't think "Osama"? Not in a way to connect the two but, rather, in a "hey, they rhyme!" way? Absolutely, especially considering his middle name's Hussein. But I don't buy that it will influence voters - even the most viciously ignorant drooling morons - any more than the haw-haw-bush-looks-like-a-monkey crap.

By: Richard Daly

Richard Daly — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:27:06 -0800

Meggo Steve, your "Have we learned nothing" link is biased interpretation of the worst kind. You'll note that the Bush logo - which is highly lauded therein - commits one of the worst sins of typographic treatment: excessive emphasis through BOLD ITALIC ALL CAPS. Furthermore, the flag's bumps ruin the strong top line of the text, and the '04 is visually unmoored from the structure of the rest of the design. Bush's logo wasn't any better than Kerry's. And while the Kerry logo is bad, yes, the author picks on the kerning of "Kerry" and "Edwards". Especially in the "Ke" letter-spacing example, those letters are spaced together as tightly as they'll fit short of a ligature (which our Texan author would have derided as elitist and effete, no doubt). Does the designer propose Kerry should change his name to avoid the awkward letter-spacing required to spell it? I don't much like the Obama logo, but that's nothing surprising. Political logos are a miserable lot across the board. I'd love to see Scott Dadich's sketches for political logos, but he's obviously campaigning for a job in some political party's graphic design house.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:29:26 -0800

People are going to knock Obama for not having any concrete proposals. But people don't give a shit about plans. As long as he can keep making speeches like that one, he's going to walk away with this thing. Not primary voters. He has to get specific, and concrete fast, or he'll be left behind. He has to show courage and spine and actually stick his neck out even a little and show he's not afraid (See Edwards and the swiftboating of his bloggers for just one small example).

By: Operation Afterglow

Operation Afterglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:30:03 -0800

Inexperience isn't the problem; as president, you can hire all the experience you want in the form of your cabinet. How can you claim "inexperience" led us to the current mess when the Bush admin has a ton of people who have been in & out of the white house since the Nixon era, and by all accounts simply feed Bush his instructions? The real problem is corruption, compromising one's own values, overconfidence in one's self. The lies seem like truth if you repeat them enough. Because Obama hasn't been playing the game as long as these other jokers there's a chance he won't be as swayed by greed and corporate influence as the other candidates so clearly are. A slim chance, but we are running out of time to have someone bring integrity back to government. Experience is plentiful and can be easily hired out. A fresh perspective untainted by corruption is what has been missing these past few decades.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:30:55 -0800

McCain is about as far to the right as one can get and at the same time pretending not to be there... Obama has but two years in congress...no experience. So too this guy http://www.nps.gov/archive/liho/early.htm and became the greatest president we have ever had (unless you believe FDR better). Name? Abe Lincoln.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:32:40 -0800

He's just as guilty of not doing anything about these challenges (which is why a sitting senator rarely wins)-- All of us know what those challenges are today - a war with no end, a dependence on oil that threatens our future, schools where too many children aren't learning, and families struggling paycheck to paycheck despite working as hard as they can. We know the challenges. We've heard them. We've talked about them for years. What's stopped us from meeting these challenges is not the absence of sound policies and sensible plans. What's stopped us is the failure of leadership, the smallness of our politics - the ease with which we're distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions, our preference for scoring cheap political points instead of rolling up our sleeves and building a working consensus to tackle big problems.

By: rmm

rmm — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:33:04 -0800

great assessment cenoxo - I do wish he had more experience to handle the list of issues you've mentioned. I'm torn about this - I really want a progressive person in there, but maybe this is the best we can do. I don't have the blinding hatred that people have for Hillary, but really hope the Democratic establishment will get behind someone who can win. Of course, maybe we could get Obama pres, Edwards vice pres, and Hillary, Gore and Dean in the cabinet As an aside, why did Gore pick Lieberman? I never got a definitive answer. MegoSteve, I respectfully disagree regarding the logo - don't let the dislike of serifs get in the way of the design. I also think the site's got great potential and verzy smartly put together.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:34:13 -0800

And when you become President, baby, you're the ultimate Insider. Yeah, just like Jimmy Carter was.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:36:56 -0800

As an aside, why did Gore pick Lieberman? I never got a definitive answer. Because the Democrats are as beholden to the Bush ME policy as the Republicans are. Obama and maybe Edwards are the only candidates who seems likely to change this.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:39:11 -0800

He himself is saving all his "meeting these challenges" for his campaign literature, instead of doing anything while in Congress about these problems--he was not on board for even a single one of the proposed binding and concrete Iraq resolution, for instance--not Feingold, not any of them--his simple attachment to them would have helped enormously.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:41:26 -0800

As an aside, why did Gore pick Lieberman? I never got a definitive answer. Because of Clinton's Monica problems. Gore was running away from Clinton the whole time, and Lieberman was religious and spoke out in moral terms against him.

By: Medieval Maven

Medieval Maven — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:42:58 -0800

I, for one, like Obama and I think that given the chance he could do a good job. But I'm not going to sit back and fling poo at whomever gets the nom because 4 more years of Republicans is too dismal to contemplate. And I'm from the South. I would vote for him in a heartbeat.

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:44:43 -0800

Didn't he introduce his own withdrawal resolution?

By: Gungho

Gungho — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:50:00 -0800

I think we have a problem here. What is the demographics of MetaFilter? Who are the Mefites that say he can or cannot get elected. Who are the mefites who are 'speaking for the southeners'? Sorry to say, but the average Mefite is probably a lot smarter and a lot more involved than your average voter. So stating 'truths' like Hilary or Obama are un-electable or that Gor is the Man is really just a waste of bandwith. Polls may be a bit hard to swallow, but as it stands Hilary is at 56% in some polls. Beating everyone. Oddly enough they haven't polled Hilary Vs. Barack yet. http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:52:40 -0800

commits one of the worst sins of typographic treatment: excessive emphasis through BOLD ITALIC ALL CAPS. This is not a sin. It's some shit they teach at art school to make students feel important, educated and most imporatnly, "in the know". Every goddamed design "rule" can be broken. Having white text on a dark background does NOTHING to limit Metafilter's popularity, not a damn thing. It's the CONTENT that matters. The Kerry logo is crap, for the main reason that he ran a crappy campaign and lost. Had Bush lost, his logo would be regarded as arrogant and cold, because he lost. Logos don't make the man. The man makes the logo. Barack's looks a little weak, but as someone else mentioned upthread, it actually looks more uplifting, bright and promising. This isn't a man who throws down a hammer, expecting you to follow, no matter what. It's a man who is saying "I got great ideas that are going to make the world a better place. Come join us." Time will tell if he lives up that.

By: grabbingsand

grabbingsand — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 11:59:07 -0800

Didn't he introduce his own withdrawal resolution? Yes. On January 30, he introduced the Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007.

This plan would not only place a cap on the number of troops in Iraq and stop the escalation, more importantly, it would begin a phased redeployment of U.S. forces with the goal of removing of all U.S. combat forces from Iraq by March 31st, 2008 - consistent with the expectations of the bipartisan Iraq study group that the President has so assiduously ignored.

By: Flunkie

Flunkie — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:00:00 -0800

I am a progressive, but if its between McCain and Hillary, I will vote for John McCain.

In what way are you a progressive? And are you aware that John McCain's policies are not remotely progressive? He is more progressive than, say, Rick Santorum or James Inhofe. But that's not saying much, and it's the best that can be said. If you truly are progressive, please rethink this position.

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:02:22 -0800

cenoxo said: And when you become President, baby, you're the ultimate Insider. three blind mice: Yeah, just like Jimmy Carter was. Some intelligent, capable people may gain a wider audience, earn more respect, and accomplish more by not becoming President. Barack is relatively young: let him get some worthwhile experience to credibly back his opinions, then run. And for the sake of sore knees, let's not choose Obama because he appears to be the opposite of Bush. You can hit a lot more unseen obstacles going in reverse.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:06:05 -0800

Let's look at his voting record: Obama voted for illegal search, surveillance and random interrogations of American citizens. Obama voted to install a bureaucrat who has a history of enabling and encouraging depotism and torture around the world that benefits American corporate interests. Obama voted for the promotion of incompetent federal employees who allowed 9/11 on their watch by ignoring intelligence. Obama voted to waste tax dollars on a Christian fundamentalist agenda of sexual abstinence, a policy which has been shown to be useless¹ in preventing pregancies and STDs. Further, this policy ignores the requirements of separation of church and state in our Constitution. In short, Obama's voting record betrays is a despot-in-waiting and a religious kook, whose election would further exacerbate the massive economic, social, civil rights and foreign policy problems brought about by two terms of George W. Bush's ineptitude. 1: Abstinence education, independent of HIV infection rates, fails miserably. This is confirmed with numerous statistical studies. Education about birth control has been statistically demonstrated to work successfully to reduce HIV and other STD rates in Africa and SE Asia.

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:06:43 -0800

..."sore knees" as in the sense of kneejerk reactions, that is.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:07:48 -0800

what they just said. And i'd really like to know how Obama plans on fighting and countering all this shit (as well as the shit that's already been flung--and stuck)

By: Target Practice

Target Practice — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:16:07 -0800

So I'm watching the video of his announcement. Somehow, when I think of Barack Obama, I do not think of U2.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:17:30 -0800

Iraq plans divide Democratic hopefuls--The candidates shift attention from attacking Bush's strategy to defining their own, and criticizing each others'. -- ... Obama's announcement set him at odds with Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who has declined to specify a date for the removal of all troops from Iraq. Last week, Clinton proposed placing a cap on the number of U.S. troops and threatening Iraq's government with a withdrawal of support. ... Also coming in for Biden's scorn was former Sen. John Edwards (D-N.C.), who six months ago offered a plan for withdrawal and became the favorite of many antiwar activists. Edwards called for an immediate reduction of 40,000 troops, with all forces to leave the country — though not the region — within 18 months. ...

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:29:37 -0800

Well, speaking for myself, I repeated that a friend said she didn't think Obama could get elected in the South, and that I don't know if I agree. So I asked people's opinions here, because I wanted to hear what they sense. Yes, MeFites are definitely a lot more savvy & intellectual than the average American. But in this case I figured people would answer the question based upon what they sense in the communities around them since I posed it that way. So yeah, there's a demographic issue if we're only talking about the opinion of individuals on MetaFilter... but since people are on here from all over, I think it's a great place to hear the observed reactions/opinions of their neighbors & communities.

By: davy

davy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:31:10 -0800

Who cares who's running for POTUS? Americans can't fix the U.S. system simply by electing a President who's clean and articulate (not even Gore Vidal, my favorite "what-if"); any U.S. President is mostly a figurehead and most are merely some "special interest's" puppets. A more thorough regime change is in order, and has been for decades. But hey, if most of my fellow Americans didn't like what they get you'd've fixed this long ago, so...

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:34:35 -0800

In short, Obama's voting record betrays is a despot-in-waiting and a religious kook, whose election would further exacerbate the massive economic, social, civil rights and foreign policy problems brought about by two terms of George W. Bush's ineptitude. Did you produce these campaign ads? I'm sure Edwards' voting record would look just as bad, if not worse. That doesn't mean Edwards is a less progressive candidate.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:36:02 -0800

Well, speaking for myself, I repeated that a friend said she didn't think Obama could get elected in the South, and that I don't know if I agree. We don't need to win the south to win the presidency.

By: nickyskye

nickyskye — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:39:23 -0800

Great thread. Thanks all.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:40:41 -0800

I think it's because it's more about who they surround themselves with and listen to, that it's even more important, davy. I think we have to look at leadership, and judgments and reasoning, and teams, and whether they cast a wide net or not, and whether they have any driving visions or passions or ideals that can even partly be implemented. Are we seeing cowardice or don't-stick-your-neck out safety, or are we seeing bold forward-thinking drive? Are we seeing calculated, focus-grouped statements or plain truths? Are we seeing Sistah Souljah acts meant to disparage and separate, or a gathering-in and activation of the immense diversity of the Democratic party? ... (i've been watching Obama very closely since the last thread on him here--i still don't see enough leadership, courage, or tangible accomplishments)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:44:46 -0800

We don't need to win the south to win the presidency. We don't. What we do need is women--most importantly single women.

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:48:46 -0800

amberglow, funny you should say that: Then, running preliminary polls, his advisers noticed something remarkable: Women responded more intensely and warmly to Obama than did men. In a seven-candidate field, you don't need to win every vote. His advisers, assuming they would pick up a healthy chunk of black votes, honed in on a different target: Every focus group they ran was composed exclusively of women, nearly all of them white. There is an amazingly candid moment in Obama's autobiography when he writes of his childhood discomfort at the way his mother would sexualize African-American men. "More than once," he recalls, "my mother would point out: 'Harry Belafonte is the best-looking man on the planet.' " What the focus groups his advisers conducted revealed was that Obama's political career now depends, in some measure, upon a tamer version of this same feeling, on the complicated dynamics of how white women respond to a charismatic black man. "I remember when we realized something magical was happening," says Obama's pollster on the campaign, an earnest Iowan named Paul Harstad. "We were doing a focus group in suburban Chicago, and this woman, seventy years old, looks seventy-five, hears Obama's life story, and she clasps her hand to her chest and says, 'Be still, my heart.' Be still, my heart -- I've been doing this for a quarter century and I've never seen that." The most remarkable thing, for Harstad, was that the woman hadn't even seen the videos he had brought along of Obama speaking, had no idea what the young politician looked like. "All we'd done," he says, "is tell them the Story."

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:51:01 -0800

Okay, so here's what my original post said, it wasn't just about the South. I'm a single woman though! So I can help with that! :)

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:51:26 -0800

Did you produce these campaign ads? Yes, delmoi, in my spare time I create attack ads for the GOP. You've outed me. Did you bother to read the links at all? I really think people supporting Obama need to look past the color of his skin and actually look at what he has voted for and against. The reason this country is in such a shithole is because people are too lazy to look past a candidate's superficialities and can't be bothered to do any research or demonstrate critical thinking skills. I don't care that Obama is black and that voting for him would make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. I care that he voted for the Iraq war, that he voted for the PATRIOT Act, and that he has demonstrated through his legislative activities that he has just about as much disrespect for human rights and the US Constitution as George W. Bush. I'm sure Edwards' voting record would look just as bad, if not worse. That doesn't mean Edwards is a less progressive candidate. I didn't bring up Edwards. Since this thread isn't about Edwards, I have no links about his voting record. Feel free to start a thread about it, if you like.

By: empath

empath — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:53:33 -0800

Barack Obama didn't vote for the war and was outspoken in his opposition to it before it started. Edwards voted for the war.

By: jayder

jayder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:59:21 -0800

I'm holding out for a president who didn't attend Harvard or Yale. Fuck that Ivy Leaguer. I know that's shallow of me, but no more shallow than all you people singing your hallelujahs how great and smart and charismatic he is and how wonderful a president he will be, despite expressing no views that aren't platitudes, refusing to speak up for obvious, no-brainer liberal positions, supporting a bunch of pernicious legislation, and apparently seeing the good in every side of every argument.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 12:59:57 -0800

He abstained from voting, which to me has the same effect as standing aside and humming from the ivory tower, while innocent people get slaughtered left and right.

By: nj_subgenius

nj_subgenius — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:01:26 -0800

OBAMA!!1! Enough already. I'll probably vote for the fucker and who cares?

By: winna

winna — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:06:29 -0800

It's not as if inexperienced outsider automatically equates to ABRAHAM LINCOLN! A great number of people are behaving as if it does. It's like counting on a million-to-one chance because you read Guards! Guards!. I would prefer not to vote for Senator Obama because of that, and also because he seems perfectly happy to throw secular Americans under the bus. I won't forget that scolding speech he gave in which he blamed secular Democrats for the plight of the country. In part, the speech talked about how secular Democrats should just shut up and tolerate the ever-increasing rate of religious demagoguery in our country because the people need hope. When Barack Obama talks about 'hope' substitute the word 'religion'.

By: Benny Andajetz

Benny Andajetz — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:15:16 -0800

Unscientific personal observation: Obama, as the "charismatic" Democratic candidate will win if he attracts the huge uniformed voting base. Here's what I mean: For the last six years I have met countless idiots (for lack of a better word) who identified themselves as "Republicans" and "conservatives" simply because that was the fashion of the day. They didn't know politics from a hole in the ground, but they knew they were conservatives. That viewpoint has taken such a public beating that even the dim-witted among those have woken up to some degree. I think this large group is most likely to vote for the "rock star" Democrat. Beats thinking. Personal opinion only, YMMV.

By: maryh

maryh — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:16:40 -0800

Yeah, but he's a Unitarian. Don't paint him as a fundy.

By: jayder

jayder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:16:58 -0800

What's really sad -- and shows a remarkable regression in our nation, in my opinion -- is that Abraham Lincoln, when he was running for office, refused to state what his religious faith was, and was roundly attacked for it. If I recall my reading about Lincoln correctly, Lincoln never would come out and say what his faith was. That shows a force of character that would be truly stunning even today, and makes me ponder what has led our nation into such a decline. This Obama nitwit certainly doesn't have that kind of character --- instead, he delivers shameful, pandering speeches like the one linked by winna. This attempt of Obama's to link himself to Lincoln is just more shameful pandering, because for the reason of his lack of courage on the religion issue alone, he is not worthy of being mentioned alongside Lincoln.

By: jayder

jayder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:18:01 -0800

Yeah, but he's a Unitarian. Don't paint him as a fundy. No, Obama is a Baptist.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:21:13 -0800

Did you bother to read the links at all? I really think people supporting Obama need to look past the color of his skin and actually look at what he has voted for and against. And my point is that that's not a good way to decide who to vote for for president. A voting record tells you nothing about what a candidate believes and what their priorities will be as president. I care that he voted for the Iraq war I didn't know the Illinois state legislature went to war with Iraq! Crazy! I won't forget that scolding speech he gave in which he blamed secular Democrats for the plight of the country. That was the old Barak! The new Barak is running in the post-2006 democratic primaries. Anyway, I'm annoyed that the guy is treated like the second coming of Jesus because he gave some speeches that they liked wherein he criticized other politicians for being not as awesome as him.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:22:11 -0800

Yeah, but he's a Unitarian. Don't paint him as a fundy. The unitarian church isn't even spesifically Christian as far as I know, right?

By: Richard Daly

Richard Daly — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:22:49 -0800

"This is not a sin. It's some shit they teach at art school to make students feel important, educated and most imporatnly, "in the know". Uh, what? Design has rules the same way English has rules. Are our English teachers teaching grammar to induct us into the prescriptivist cool clique? In design, as in English, there are no laws, but there are guidelines, and there are solid reasons for the better ones. Of course you can do well by breaking them, but it requires care and consideration for the underlying reasons for the rule. To put it another way, the rules don't exist ex nihilo, but your audience may well expect you to abide by them, and if you violate your audience's expectations you risk undermining your own communication. In this case, George Bush wanted to be president (again) and he was running with a logo that would have been more appropriate on a flight suited action figure with an articulated codpiece. Hell, maybe it was intentional! Every goddamed design "rule" can be broken. Having white text on a dark background does NOTHING to limit Metafilter's popularity, not a damn thing. It's the CONTENT that matters." It's the content of the logo that matters? All possible Bush logos would have the same content: Bush. It's the presentation of that content (Full name, running mate, font, etc) that's going to separate a good logo from a bad one. To put this another way, while white text isn't a death blow to The Blue, MeFi would be at a disadvantage if it suffered from early nineties web design.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:24:14 -0800

A voting record tells you nothing about what a candidate believes and what their priorities will be as president. I couldn't disagree more. In fact, on what other reasonable basis can you expect that a candidate will follow through on his or her campaign promises, in exchange for your vote? Their word?

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:24:19 -0800

That viewpoint has taken such a public beating that even the dim-witted among those have woken up to some degree. I think this large group is most likely to vote for the "rock star" Democrat. Beats thinking. I think you're right. And so, I think Obama will get the nod and probably head to the white house. I think, realistically he has a much better shot at beating Hilliary then Edwards does outside of the initial states.

By: Manjusri

Manjusri — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:24:26 -0800

Blazecock, your link is to a procedural bill regarding the inclusion of Iraq funding in the budget. It has no relevence to the topic at hand, as should be obvious to anyone. Obama was not even in the Senate at the time of the vote to authorize the war in Iraq. He has been on the record in opposition to it from the start. I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about the coming election. Even if my dream candidate, Gore, does not enter the fray, I've got the feeling that, in spite of idealogical differences, all of the front runners, even McCain are basically good people and will try to do right by the American people and the world. Something I do not believe is true for the cabal currently in power.

By: maryh

maryh — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:26:40 -0800

Yeah, but he's a Unitarian. Don't paint him as a fundy. No, Obama is a Baptist. We're both wrong. He belongs to the United Church of Christ.

By: maryh

maryh — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:29:10 -0800

About the Obama/UCC smear.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:33:04 -0800

Blazecock, your link is to a procedural bill regarding the inclusion of Iraq funding in the budget Funding a war is support for the war. Anyway, it doesn't detract from legitimate criticisms of his horrible record as a Senator.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:37:09 -0800

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, on what other reasonable basis can you expect that a candidate will follow through on his or her campaign promises, in exchange for your vote? Their word? Basically, but more spesifically their words over a long period of time. Without knowing why they voted a certain way on a particular bill you can't really know if the bill represents their actual views. Sometimes times votes may be bargaining chips used to make legislation less onerous. A lot of times, passage of the bill depends on a core group of supporters, and it doesn't matter if a true opponent votes for it or not. If you look at Lieberman's voting record, he comes out very pro choice, and pro-gay. Is he? Unless you look closely at the history of each bill, as well as the text you can't really use it to determine where a candidate stands. Simplifying the PATRIOT act to "Illegal searching" is far to simplistic. That doesn't mean Obama will go hog-wild illegally searching people as president. It doesn't mean he won't pull troops from Iraq, or invade Iran. You have to look at his statements, which fights he takes up, who he surrounds himself with and so on. Trying to "Objectively" measure a person is absurd.

By: MapGuy

MapGuy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:44:02 -0800

For some reason Eddie Murphy's SNL portrayal of the first black President comes to mind. BO has the same (National) experience as Lincoln did when he became President. He was also from Illinois, well sorta, just like BO. You remember Lincoln; he was the first guy that destroyed the constitution to preserve the union. Lincoln is being tried this week for racism, based on his speeches. I think BO is a pretty cool cat, (can I say that?) and with his background and Islamic schooling when he was younger, I think he has a much broader perspective to understand some of the problems we are facing.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:46:01 -0800

Design has rules the same way English has rules. There's a bit of difference between graphic design and english. In this case, George Bush wanted to be president (again) and he was running with a logo that would have been more appropriate on a flight suited action figure with an articulated codpiece. That's exactly right and yes intentional. It's the content of the logo that matters? No, it's the content of the candidate that matters, or the content of Metafilter that matters. They make the logo.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:48:02 -0800

I think BO is a pretty cool cat, (can I say that?) and with his background and Islamic schooling when he was younger *blink*

By: dw

dw — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:51:42 -0800

He is more progressive than, say, Rick Santorum or James Inhofe. Anyone is more progressive than Jim Inhofe. Inhofe makes the John Birch Society look like Communist sympathizers. When Tom Coburn is the sane, decent, intelligent, and least demagogue-like of the two senators from Oklahoma, something is wrong with this world. (Coburn and Obama are friends, BTW. Their wives hit it off at the US Senate orientation.)

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:53:45 -0800

If you look at Lieberman's voting record, he comes out very pro choice, and pro-gay. Is he? Being opportunistic, he has voted the will of his constituents. While he may personally object to abortions and gay sex, his responsibility is to represent his voters. A voter in Connecticut can expect that, while Joe may be an asshole in person, on the issues he will consistently listen to and act upon the wishes of those who vote for him — as he should. And being elected repeatedly is usually a sign that the majority of voters accept him as their representative (or perhaps the voting machines are broken). Prior actions have always been a better indicator of future behavior than campaign promises.

By: washburn

washburn — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:55:01 -0800

Well, I made it to Springfield today and was in the crowd. It was cold, but worth it. I hope we can put this man in office.

By: MapGuy

MapGuy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:59:33 -0800

delmoi *blink* Google it. Hillary's team has, insight magazine has an article. Too lazy to find and link, sorry.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 13:59:58 -0800

Being opportunistic, he [lieberman] has voted the will of his constituents. While he may personally object to abortions and gay sex, his responsibility is to represent his voters. So his constituents support the war? So are you saying that Obama is voting the "will of his constituents" or he, unlike Lieberman, not an opportunist and so all his votes are votes of conscious? Anyway, the actual answer is that Lieberman does not support gay rights or the right to chose, but manipulates his voting to score higher on various "objective" rankings.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:01:44 -0800

Google it. Hillary's team has, insight magazine has an article. Too lazy to find and link, sorry. I'm guessing you were trying to be sarcastic, but a lot of people take off hand comments as being true, or literal.

By: maryh

maryh — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:02:11 -0800

I think BO is a pretty cool cat, (can I say that?) and with his background and Islamic schooling when he was younger *blink* Grrr... Mapguy, you're playing into some nasty talking points from the right. From wikipedia: His mother married an Indonesian foreign student, Lolo Soetoro, with whom she had one daughter. The family moved to Jakarta where Obama attended local schools from ages 6 to 10.[ The school he attended there was Christian. This whole 'Obama is a tool of Islamofascists" is already getting play with the wingnuts. Can we not give it space here, too?

By: MapGuy

MapGuy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:02:51 -0800

Hey at 10:12 in the tape was that Chelsea Clinton in the crowd? Oh, no she didn't....

By: dw

dw — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:04:10 -0800

Yeah, but he's a Unitarian. Don't paint him as a fundy. No, Obama is a Baptist. We're both wrong. He belongs to the United Church of Christ. Let's be clear about something: Obama is not a fundamentalist. He is openly religious, which apparently is giving a bunch of lefties the heebie-jeebies about theocratic rule for no good reason. But the UCC is about as liberal a mainline church as you can get. They've been ordaining open homosexuals since what, the early 1970s? They're congregationalist in structure, meaning that they're more a confederacy in structure and aren't some monolithic hivemind. Personally, I think they can be mealy-mouthed about stating their beliefs (but I'm in the PC(USA) which is notorious for punting on taking action), but they're a long, long, long way from the oligarchy currently running the Southern Baptist Convention. A theocracy run by the UCC would be open, affirming, and gridlocked. Just make sure you bring what you were assigned to the government-mandated potlucks lest you spend time in Gitmo being silently scorned.

By: Green Eyed Monster

Green Eyed Monster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:05:32 -0800

I think it's a safe guess that he's got Illinois' electoral votes.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:07:14 -0800

...because he seems perfectly happy to throw secular Americans under the bus. I won't forget that scolding speech he gave in which he blamed secular Democrats for the plight of the country. ... Me neither--especially at a time with the Religious Right so entwined in everything--from the Pentagon and administration to Congress and Courts and School Boards, etc. I think that's what i need to hear strongly and clearly from him--stuff that will not a)knock his own party to distinguish himself, and b) respect those of us with different faiths and no faiths, and understand that morals are not dependent on faith and that priorities and needs and doing stuff for others isn't either. We don't need another man in the White House who wears his faith on his sleeve--we need someone who will do good, repair damage, and help Americans in need, regardless of the reasons.

By: maryh

maryh — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:07:52 -0800

Mapguy: see also.

By: Lentrohamsanin

Lentrohamsanin — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:09:28 -0800

Telegraph: Obama rejects claim of Islamic schooling The Telegraph is very conservative. Actually, Insight's claim that it came from "anonymous sources in the Clinton campaign" suggests a little misdirected mud to me. Insight appears to be the only source for this story and they are in no way a credible journal.

By: Richard Daly

Richard Daly — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:11:52 -0800

There's a bit of difference between graphic design and english. Well, sure. But they're both symbolic communication forms dependant on cultural interpretation through psychology and aesthetics. I think my overall point (and it's one I suspect we agree on) is that the commentary offered by the linked editorial is not a design crit of the logo, but is instead a political opinion, delivered by proxy, offered by a Texan who sees nothing wrong with the enormous phallus of the BUSH logo. A different author could have just as easily criticized that logo for being juvenile and un-serious, but this one instead chose to laud Bush for reasons outside the scope of the design.

By: MapGuy

MapGuy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:13:35 -0800

maryh Yeah read the whole thing, then read what I said. I think it's cool that he has had exposure to, as I said "and with his background and Islamic schooling when he was younger". Why is everyone afraid of words?

By: Snyder

Snyder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:15:18 -0800

Blazecock, did you ever read about the bill your talking about, the one Obama declined a vote on? From the site you linked to: "Project Vote Smart's Synopsis: Vote to adopt a non-binding, amendment that expresses the Senate's will that future military operation funds be included in the regular budget proposal and not in an emergency supplemental appropriation bill. Highlights: - Requests all future funding for ongoing military operations overseas especially in Afghanistan and Iraq be included in the President's annual fiscal year budget proposal - Calls for the President to submit to Congress by Sept 1, 2005, an amendment to his annual fiscal budget, that details estimated costs for ongoing military operations overseas - Asks that all future funding requests for ongoing military operations overseas appear in the appropriation bills in which such expenditures are normally included" Are you saying that he should've voted 'No' and join such luminaries as Orrin Hatch and Jim Inhofe? I don't think you even read what the bill was about, and decided, based on the name alone, that Obama abstaining meant that he dosen't care about "innocent people being slaughtered left and right," and that his non-vote was the same as "funding the war," when, in fact, it was about a bill to compel the President to include Iraq expenditures in the Federal Budgt, and not to ask for emergency funding. I'm pretty neutral on the man so far, I have no idea why you see the need to smear him with falsehoods and obsfucation.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:15:54 -0800

I think a lot of people are underestimating the instinctive revulsion that a lot of the middle of the country (political middle) feels for the 'Democrat' party -- for what it's worth, I think Obama comes off as a mediator between the two parties. He's above the fray, somehow -- sort of in his own party. I think that will count a lot for people who are uncomfortable with the Kerrys and the Howards Deans of the world, and perhaps more importantly for those who feel betrayed by the Republican party and are looking for a way out. Anyone who thinks that Obama won't find a ton of purchase in the more libertarian-conservative parts of the Midwest is in a for a huge, huge surprise. I'm skeptical about some large parts of the South, but I'm not too confident that Hillary would take any of those states, anyway.

By: MapGuy

MapGuy — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:16:17 -0800

And I suppose someone would get twisted if I said his dad was a goat hurder. Well.... bring it on ;P

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:19:18 -0800

Or, better yet, let's focus the debate on these two questions: (1) What states would Hillary have a better chance of taking in the Electoral College than Obama? (2) What states would Obama have a better chance of taking than Hillary? It seems to me that they've got an equally good shot at most of the states that went Blue in the last couple elections, but Obama gets the nod in the all-important Ohio, as well as in some of the states that have been on the fence in the Midwest and Southwest. Ohio deserves some special focus -- Obama is from Illinois and he built his campaign there on reaching out to people who'd lost manufacturing jobs. He's practically designed to take Ohio, and for me that makes him the perfect candidate. Aside from the fact that I like him in pretty much every other imaginable way.

By: Snyder

Snyder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:19:21 -0800

I think that's what i need to hear strongly and clearly from him--stuff that will not a)knock his own party to distinguish himself, I could do with him knocking the Dems some more. They're a pathetic excuse for an opposition party.

By: spock

spock — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:26:00 -0800

Don't miss "Hillary's" reaction: THE SECRET DIARY OF HILLARY CLINTON. Comedy gold.

By: Medieval Maven

Medieval Maven — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:29:13 -0800

Amen to that, Snyder.

By: 2sheets

2sheets — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:31:34 -0800

"I really want to believe in this guy. I don't know why, but I do." I used to be more of a "show me" guy who didn't think pretty speeches were worth spit, but in light of our recent history and looking back on better times I think there is a lot to be said for someone who gets the "vision thing". Hell, if only because it would make us look good on the world stage because we had a leader who was articulate and didn't make up cute nicknames for everybody.

By: namespan

namespan — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:32:03 -0800

We don't need another man in the White House who wears his faith on his sleeve It almost seems to me that what you're saying is that (a) an open profession of religious faith should disqualify one for public office and (b) because both Bush and Obama do that, the consequences of electing Obama would be similar. The problem I have with accepting that interpretation of your remarks is that it's bigoted and stupid. Maybe you should clarify.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:36:37 -0800

It's pretty sad that we've become so inured by the vapidity of the Bush Presidency that now when a candidate speaks with any hint of conviction or inspiration, we immediately dismiss him for lack of substance.

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 14:58:15 -0800

Good graphic design involves an understanding of psychology & sociology. Certain colors and shapes and typefaces that bring out certain emotions in people that they aren't even aware of. It's really more of a science than a lot of people realize. When it comes to branding, it's often a lot more important what is on a product's package than in the product itself... after all, there could be 30 different dishwashing detergents on the shelf that are often almost the same thing, and good design often puts one into the purchaser's basket over another. Companies pay big for design that will tap those instincts. I think Barack's logo is good. Definitely. It says a lot. It's well thought out. The O could've just been a plain, boring "O", but instead they faded the inside edge to imply a little more of a 3D circle... which in turn can represent the world. It's got the red, white & blue of all politicians logos, but it's far more unique, designed, and subtle than that old overdone flag motif or flying star. It's a unique approach for an American election logo, because instead of focusing on the flag, Obama's logo subliminally focuses on the world. Then the red stripes of the flag were then added to represent a horizon. Okay, here's where the design gets even trickier: the curve of that horizon is very deliberate. If it was just straight across, it would have a different message. Inside of that globe, the curved horizon ALSO represents the world and the new tomorrow that they want you to believe Obama can bring. (Curves often represent promise... that's why there are no straight streets in the City of Beverly Hills, you can't see the end of the street anywhere there. The city map was designed that way so that people would always feel like there's something wonderful around the corner.) As it's executed, the red stripes could represent roads to some people (which is good) and I could also see that to some people they could represent fields, which could appeal to people in more rural areas. So in a sense, Obama's logo shows our flag wrapping around the world... in a soft, pleasant, happier tomorrows kind of way. And that? Is EXACTLY the perfect image for his campaign. Now, if he lives up to the promises of his logo is a whole 'nother thing. YES... this, my friends is what art school and a 15 year design career can do to you. It makes you get this anal retentive about how you see EVERYTHING. Jesus, my head hurts.

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:02:06 -0800

Oh yeah, and the whole blue sky thing in the logo... that's yet another promise made by that logo. The color of it matches the color of '08. Which kind of tells you that if you act in '08 by voting for him, you will receive blue skies. Wow, do I have the most manipulative job in the world, or what?

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:03:10 -0800

in other news: OBAMA REFUSES TO GIVE SPECIFIC DATE WHEN HE STOPPED BEATING HIS WIFE.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:04:38 -0800

I could do with him knocking the Dems some more. They're a pathetic excuse for an opposition party. Then why is running as a Democrat, and why is he a Democratic Senator? Let him go be a Lieberman or an Independent. It almost seems to me that what you're saying is that (a) an open profession of religious faith should disqualify one for public office and (b) because both Bush and Obama do that, the consequences of electing Obama would be similar. The problem I have with accepting that interpretation of your remarks is that it's bigoted and stupid. Maybe you should clarify. It's not just an open profession---it's the uses it's put to, and the reasonings stated, and the dog whistle politics, and the separating of Americans into those good people with faith, and everyone else. It's the ascribing of morality to one faith alone, and it's the pandering. It's the enabling of bigotry and stupidity that such actions contain. It's the "i'm not like those Godless Democrats; i'm like you" that is immensely offensive and bigoted and stupid. I also want to know more about Obama and the DLC

By: sergeant sandwich

sergeant sandwich — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:15:10 -0800

blazecock, your links to obama's voting record would be marginally informative if you weren't spinning the ever-loving fuck out of them and completely distorting their meanings. s. con res. 18 was about as laughably far from a 'christian fundamentalist agenda of sexual abstinence'; i don't know what you think "prescription coverage for contraceptives" means but it sure isn't abstinence. nor was the agenda christian fundamentalist: the voting record was basically party line and almost every democrat in the senate voted yes on that bill. what gives, blazecock karlrove?

By: Snyder

Snyder — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:18:01 -0800

Then why is running as a Democrat, and why is he a Democratic Senator? Let him go be a Lieberman or an Independent. Because while the Dems have many problems, including"Shut the fuck up and vote for us, progressives, because we're the only choice you got," they are not the Repubs and it can help to have the backing of a large state/national party to help you win office. It's not just an open profession---it's the uses it's put to, and the reasonings stated, and the dog whistle politics, and the separating of Americans into those good people with faith, and everyone else. It's the ascribing of morality to one faith alone, and it's the pandering. It's the enabling of bigotry and stupidity that such actions contain. It's the "i'm not like those Godless Democrats; i'm like you" that is immensely offensive and bigoted and stupid. You want to show me where he does all that? As oppossed to showing he takes his faith seriously, and not just the typical Dem, "Yeah, I'm a person of faith, whatever hurf durf," mealey-mouthed pandering?

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:20:17 -0800

YES... this, my friends is what art school and a 15 year design career can do to you. It makes you get this anal retentive about how you see EVERYTHING. I noticed the fields and sunrise motif. I think it's brilliant, a total departure from the boring political logos we've been plagued with, although a little "web2.0" Web2.0 style isn't cliche in the real world. Anyway it just reinforces his image: Getting all the surface details right.

By: edverb

edverb — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:28:00 -0800

I also want to know more about Obama and the DLC "I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC." - Barack Obama, June 26 2003

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:31:30 -0800

blazecock, your links to obama's voting record would be marginally informative if you weren't spinning the ever-loving fuck out of them and completely distorting their meanings. That's the other thing, you're not even Blazecock is presenting his votes on various bills as if they were votes on his one-line hyper-hyperbolic and innacurate descriptions of them. Also, who do you support BCP?

By: wallstreet1929

wallstreet1929 — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:37:22 -0800

The Iowa Market only trades the parties. Intrade carries all the candidates. Clinton is bidding 47.6 and asking at 48.50. She fell off her 52 high about two months ago. Obama would've been a nice trade. Six months ago he was trading for single digits; today the bid is 19.5 and the ask is 19.6 (low spread, boys, and buyers are really positioned at 17...)). No other Dem trades higher. Going long Obama is pretty speculative, and shorting Clinton could be hazardous to your wallet. Technically, Clinton has nice support at 40; Obama is a .com bubble hockey-stick formation, with little support or base below him. A conservative investor would stay long Clinton. Unfortunately, these are really event-driven trades; there are very few fundamental assets or value in place with either stock. They are a lot like biotech stocks--all story and FDA approval, with moonshots made of slim news. And any negative news, you get evaporated in a second. Neither trades as value, and there is little besides office furniture you could get in a fire sale. If I was speculating, I would stay out of the Dem trades and go long Giuliani (trading 20.4), and short McCain (trading 37+).

By: abulafa

abulafa — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 15:45:17 -0800

Wow, I'm glad I'm not the only progressive whose reservations about Obama stem from his religious pandering. I feel disenfranchised by all sides when it comes to religion and the often-unsubtle implication that morality is the product and sole property of faith. I also pragmatically allow that if I would like to exit an egregious war and possibly reorient the big ship of resources we all sail, that I may have to elect a person who professes as much. This vexes me because either they believe what they say and effectively find me a lesser citizen for my lack of faith or they don't believe what they say and are the less trustworthy for it. Either way, I lose.

By: joe lisboa

joe lisboa — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:01:55 -0800

As oppossed to showing he takes his faith seriously, and not just the typical Dem, "Yeah, I'm a person of faith, whatever hurf durf," mealey-mouthed pandering? HURF DURF BIBLE-BEATER

By: Doofus Magoo

Doofus Magoo — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 16:05:28 -0800

Thorzdad:I mean...c'mon...when you first heard the name "Obama", are you saying your mind, somewhere down deep, didn't think "Osama"? Not in a way to connect the two but, rather, in a "hey, they rhyme!" way? hoverboards: Absolutely, especially considering his middle name's Hussein. But I don't buy that it will influence voters - even the most viciously ignorant drooling morons - any more than the haw-haw-bush-looks-like-a-monkey crap.

Don't underestimate the power of the Republicans to prey on voters' subconscious fears. Should he win the nomination, I'll bet dollars to donuts that every Republican ad that mentions him will use his full name slowly in a deep, foreboding voice. They're keenly aware that you don't necessarily win by making cogent points that educate the audience about your candidate's positions. Rather, it's a cumulative process of convincing the audience that the other man is the wrong person for the job. Most of those efforts will fail for most voters, but nearly all will succeed for at least some voters. With elections being won at the very margins, the Republicans understand well that every little bit helps, and that very few tactics will result in any kind of discernible backlash from undecided voters. It's easy to argue that nobody's going to hear "Barack Hussein Obama" and vote against him because of his name, but the Republicans are far more subtle than that. His name will be used as a weapon against him; if you think that the Republicans are above neutralizing name recognition by encouraging potential voters to subconsciously associate his name with "bad things" (cue the announcer's deep voice), you're deluding yourself.