Comments on: Eddie! Don't!

Eddie! Don't!

frogan — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 21:45:40 -0800

Eddie destroys the ship. Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica podcasts have been discussed before, but the most recent one contains a gem. At the end of the episode Maelstrom, Edward James Olmos ("Eddie" to his friends on the set) lashes out in an unscripted, improvised, emotional moment, destroying a sailing ship model that had been a frequent prop on the set. Turns out the ship ... ahem ... wasn't a prop, but an extremely valuable museum piece.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:10:59 -0800

You broke your little ships.

By: cowbellemoo

cowbellemoo — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:12:51 -0800

Another great moment in ship-smashing history. Now then, who needs a good cry after "Maelstrom"? Yeah...I know you do. There, there. Let it out... .

By: cowbellemoo

cowbellemoo — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:13:49 -0800

damn you dhartung! (breaks little ship)

By: spaceman_spiff

spaceman_spiff — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:15:01 -0800

You see Eddie, this is why we can't have nice things.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:15:31 -0800

Mine has better acting, neener neener. Actually, this is killing me. I just finished "Resurrection Ship, Part 2" .... The spoilers! They burn!

By: quin

quin — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:25:18 -0800

Holy crap. That is, if you'll forgive the expression, frackin' awesome. I mean, I feel for the museum people and the set dressers, but it really was an incredibly powerful moment, and to find out it was improved? It gives me a considerable insight into how good Olmos is when it comes to wringing emotion out of a scene. And while the Wife was just sitting stunned by the events that had transpired moments earlier, I had to admit in the back of my head, that I was a little sad that they had destroyed that beautifully built prop just to sell the ending. Now I know the truth. Based on the commentary, and how that shoot affected the cast, I have to wonder if EJO knew the cost of what he was going to do and chose to do it anyway, or if it really was just an in-the-moment kind of decision. Either way, it definitely worked. /hates the waiting for the next episode.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:32:50 -0800

dhartung, that was the best Star Trek-related anything I have ever seen. / still laughing

By: quin

quin — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:33:20 -0800

dhartung : Actually, this is killing me. I just finished "Resurrection Ship, Part 2" Oh you poor soul. You have no idea. No idea. /shakes head. I'm there for you my brother. In 26 episodes, you will know our pain. /Starts singing Lean on Me.

By: IshmaelGraves

IshmaelGraves — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:35:18 -0800

A link to a zero-byte MP3?

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:38:23 -0800

Pff. Sorry, but that episode left me cold. Is there anyone in the show you doesn't have some kind of special awesome mystical destiny now?

By: eurasian

eurasian — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:49:13 -0800

For those of you who haven't caught up to Maelstorm, and are planning to, FLEE THE THREAD NOW! Before some mefi-er spills the beans. *vaguely spoilerish!!* It felt like "Serenity" all over again. "Oh, he's going to come back, yeah, he's coming back aaaaaaaanny moment now.." And to comment on the improv, apparently quite a bit of BSG is improved. Listening to the podcasts will give you a greater sense of how much. For example, uh, Season 1, is it? When Col. Tigh's wife is flirting with Lee under the table, that was apparently improved.

By: bwg

bwg — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 22:58:16 -0800

I keep reading improved as improved, as in "made better". Improvised, people ... improvised!

By: tzikeh

tzikeh — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:01:57 -0800

Eddie improvs all over the place. The kiss? Improv. Half the stuff that goes on in the episodes he directs (like Ellen flirting with Lee under the table)? Improv. Some of Adama's best lines are improv too. *hearts Edward James Olmos liek whoa* It's amazing to me that a show this good with two Oscar-nominated actors leading the cast and a Peabody in its pocket can't get the Emmy Awards' attention. WTF, Emmy people, WTF.

By: yeloson

yeloson — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:08:04 -0800

After the first few episodes of season 3, I haven't been that excited. Overall the pacing has been off and it's been a yawn fest between "Same old emo pain" and pat answers for large scale social problems. And not enough space battles to occupy my inner 14 year old either.

By: quin

quin — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:09:42 -0800

Thanks bwg, I actually doubted myself after seeing my own comment enough to look it up, then thought about correcting myself, then figured, 'eh? I'm going to bed.' But you sir, are correct.

By: basicchannel

basicchannel — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:10:50 -0800

It's a Jewish conspiracy!

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:14:29 -0800

As powerful as that episode was, my first thought when Olmos smashed the model ship that his character built but he the actor did not, was to feel terrible for the guy who had put so much work into building it, just to see it destroyed for effect. I even hoped that the ship that was destroyed was some much simpler mock-up built to be destroyed. Much has I admire Olmos's acting and BSG in general, destroying those hours -- days, months -- of painstaking work seemed a desecration, especially when one artist (the actor) does it to another artist's (the model builder's) work.

By: quin

quin — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:19:35 -0800

eurasian : It felt like "Serenity" all over again. "Oh, he's going to come back, yeah, he's coming back aaaaaaaanny moment now.." Other than the River-doing-harm-to-the-Reavers bit of the movie, tell me who you were sure was coming back? Really, after Book and Wash, I figured that Wheaton was willing to go all Wild-Bunch after that and just end them all.

By: sourbrew

sourbrew — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:23:57 -0800

"WTF, Emmy people, WTF." Don't you know that if it happens on the Sci-fi channel it's not really television. I was also really pissed about him breaking the ship just because it was beautiful. Finding out it was improved is pretty sweet though, glad they got something useful out of the footage. /loves BSG

By: cytherea

cytherea — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:29:57 -0800

How very sad. At least they kept the scene. Unlike the time with that poor donkey and Lars.

By: vhsiv

vhsiv — Tue, 06 Mar 2007 23:51:06 -0800

If that's how they're spending their $1-3M an episode, then they need to cut the show back to 13 episodes. Which they are. It's been a weak season. And no more museum pieces on set.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:08:44 -0800

I keep reading improved as improved, as in "made better". Teh funnies.

By: bwg

bwg — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:16:02 -0800

Teh funnies. I swear it was all improvised.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:37:48 -0800

I heard Eddie Olmos once kicked Bono's ASS.

By: Tenuki

Tenuki — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:41:03 -0800

"Fight 'em till we can't"

By: furiousthought

furiousthought — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 01:59:23 -0800

Really, after Book and Wash, I figured that Wheaton was willing to go all Wild-Bunch after that and just end them all. I know it's a typo, but this sentence burned an image in my mind of grown-up Wesley Crusher kicking down the hatch of the Serenity, all "IT'S ON MOTHERFUCKERS," and just brutalizing the whole entire crew with a broken gin bottle and a claw hammer.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:08:12 -0800

Other than the River-doing-harm-to-the-Reavers bit of the movie, tell me who you were sure was coming back? Really, after Book and Wash, I figured that Wheaton was willing to go all Wild-Bunch after that and just end them all. If you've listened to the Jossentary (and why HAVEN'T YOU, if you haven't. All Joss commentary tracks are gold), you'll know that that's precisely what he wanted you to think. PS: Shut up, Wesley.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:18:21 -0800

As to the topic, yeah. That part of this week's podcast had me laughing. As to this season: I don't think it's been that uneven. I think some of it's possibly that the New Caprica episodes, culminating in the mind-blowingly, un-fucking-believably awesome-in-every-way Exodus Pt. 2 (Adama Maneuver. LOL.) set a ridiculously high standard for the rest of the season, which on the whole hasn't been better or worse than season 2. There's the obligatory Cursed 14th Episode (the 14th episode of season 2, Black Market, was previously, undeniably the worst BSG episode), and the one after that wasn't all that great either, but the last two weeks have been back On. They've yet to squander my faith in their ability to make one of the best shows on the air. Not every episode can be an Exodus Pt. 2. And it looks like they're getting off their asses with regards to The Trial. So now we're at the part of the season where everything's an increasingly awesome, "OH SHIT." moment until the genius, wrenching season finale. Right?

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 02:26:31 -0800

Is there anyone in the show you doesn't have some kind of special awesome mystical destiny now? Uh. Who besides Starbuck and (formerly?) Roslin have had any destiny talk? Maybe my memory is going, but I'm pretty sure they've not been passing out Special Destinys like free candy....

By: rmd1023

rmd1023 — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 04:21:23 -0800

sparkletone -- tyrol was kind of destiny-ish in the temple, there, a few episodes back.

By: Tenuki

Tenuki — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 04:45:13 -0800

Baltar has a special destiny, Hera has a special destiny, Number Three thought she had a special destiny, I bet Billy comes back as a cylon and he has a special destiny.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:11:50 -0800

"Are you the Finger Man? I'm the Finger Man, too. Do you know what I can do? I know how to multiply by nines..."

By: infowar

infowar — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:16:33 -0800

I'm sure had the director been able to film the property master's reaction when Eddie smashed the ship, we would have been treated to even more emotions. I have found this season to be a bit of a letdown after the New Caprica arc. It is obvious there is no plan to the series which is really the crux of my issues with the show.

By: Kirklander

Kirklander — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 05:35:23 -0800

Grey's Anatomy in space. I miss when sci-fi was hardass.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:04:52 -0800

Kirklander hurt Dizzy but Kirklander speak truth to Dizzy.

By: bruce

bruce — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:20:01 -0800

we had to destroy the village in order to improve it.

By: Cyrano

Cyrano — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:21:14 -0800

I think some of it's possibly that the New Caprica episodes, culminating in the mind-blowingly, un-fucking-believably awesome-in-every-way Exodus Pt. 2 (Adama Maneuver. LOL.) set a ridiculously high standard for the rest of the season Bingo.

By: Busithoth

Busithoth — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:24:29 -0800

first half of season 3 was just fine by me, but since coming back for the second half, I keep scratching my head wondering where my show went. still, last two eps had some kickass eye-candy. (and I realize the Serenity reference was plot-related, but it's the same sfx crew.) spaceman_spiff, thanks for the guffaw. why were they letting him place a new prow on it? (not making excuses, but...)

By: contessa

contessa — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:31:58 -0800

(ooops)

By: Lentrohamsanin

Lentrohamsanin — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:32:17 -0800

I got bored when they wimped out on New Caprica and had everybody back into space within 3 episodes of the new season. Also the writing really went downhill, especially the dialogue. Maybe more of it should be improv'd (or maybe less).

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:40:18 -0800

Spoilery about Maelstrom.... . . . . . . I don't read any forums about the show, so this may have been covered to death. But didn't we see (a) a shot of Starbuck gripping the ejector seat handle before her ship went blooey, and (b) a shot from Apollo's perspective where he apparently saw the Cylon ship Starbuck was chasing? If so, is it not likely, given all the destiny talk by Leoben, Starbuck ejected and was rescued/captured by the Cylons?

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:43:51 -0800

NERDS!

By: contessa

contessa — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:52:19 -0800

Listen, when I saw this post I actually had to pause and absorb the whole idea that somebody would be upset about the smashing, because it never occurred to me that E.J.O didn't build that ship. That's how damn good he acts - I thought he built it. My exact thought when that scene ended was: "oooh nooo, he worked so hard on that!" I'm serious.

By: eurasian

eurasian — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 06:58:09 -0800

tzikeh : Inneresting! quin "Other than the River-doing-harm-to-the-Reavers bit of the movie, tell me who you were sure was coming back? Really, after Book and Wash, I figured that Wheaton was willing to go all Wild-Bunch after that and just end them all." Honestly? Wash. Wash was coming back damnit. He's still coming back! It was a mere flesh wound! It missed all his vital bits and pieces!!! OMG THEY BURIED WASH ALIVE!!! In denial much? Yes please! Orthogonality: On one hand, yeah, crappy, to destroy such a beautiful piece. On the other hand, one might argue its reason for being is to the show. If I was a beautifully crafted model ship, I'd rather go down in a raging maelstorm of Edward Rage than sit, unappreciated on a forgotten shelf only to be sold for a pittance at a garage sale; then perhaps, many years later, to be appraised at an astounding value to the shock of a lucky shmuck on "Antique's Road Show". I mean honestly, that host is all sorts of plasticy creepy. furiousthought : I think we all know that Wesley would just walk in with a dumb look of childlike wonder and say "Gee, this is where all the flying happens! Where maneuvering of the ship is handled in two different ways. In atmosphere she has flaps and ailerons that in conjunction with the pitch of the side engines control her direction. In space she uses an RCS, (Reaction Control System,) consisting of Hydrazine fueled thrusters that work in a countered measure. Gee! Do you mind if I--" (reference) Mal punches him out.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:19:13 -0800

the 14th episode of season 2, Black Market, was previously, undeniably the worst BSG episode Um... Boxing episode?

By: killy willy

killy willy — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:41:30 -0800

/rant does anyone else find this podcast painful? does the wife have a job on the show, or is she there just to be annoying? are all podcasts this self-indulgent? /end rant

By: bigbigdog

bigbigdog — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:43:26 -0800

Hey, that boxing episode was M*A*S*H-tastic!

By: evinrude

evinrude — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:59:29 -0800

schoolgirl report: On re-watching, one can see that as her ship implodes, the canopy is still on. She didn't eject.

By: schoolgirl report

schoolgirl report — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:08:28 -0800

Well that answers that, thanks evinrude. Should've rewound the DVR to verify.

By: yeloson

yeloson — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:18:28 -0800

My two main beefs are thus: 1. The show runs on ugly, unresolved looming problems. Pretty much after the Gaeta focal episode, there's been a lot of pat endings to really big problems. ("Ok, we promise to act better!" "Cool.") 2. The Cylons have a plan: "Let's kill them." "Let's use them in breeding experiments." "Let's live together by throwing them in jail." "Let's follow them around." This plan sounds like the mixture of PCP and acid.

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:18:34 -0800

On re-watching, one can see that as her ship implodes, the canopy is still on. She didn't eject. I still have no sense whatsoever that she won't be back. And before she returns she'll probbaly be in no end of tedious flashbacks and dream sequences, emo-ing it up.

By: picea

picea — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:18:43 -0800

Come on, she's one of the mystery Cylons! She'll appear in some resurrection ship somewhere with a smirking Leoben. Her mother fought in the first Cylon wars so maybe something happened there that accounted for her getting carted to Caprica. I hate to say it, but there just haven't been enough space battles this season. I think the tension of actual warfare is partly what propels the show to greatness and without it, the show loses a lot of energy. And while the military stuff helps move the show forward, the mystical bullshit only slows it down and diminishes the characters' fight for survival. You can sense the presence of a hundred deus ex machinas waiting in the wings to magically fix things and trivialise all the pain and struggles.

By: Dr. Boom

Dr. Boom — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 08:58:52 -0800

I was sure this headline was teasing some hitchhikers guide item re: Eddie the Shipboard computer.

By: Dave Faris

Dave Faris — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:02:07 -0800

I have to agree with the rest of you. I get the feeling they didn't think they'd still be doing this three seasons in, and the show just isn't as strong as it was.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:30:27 -0800

I am with schoolgirl report. Let me note that just because the people at Zoic left the canopy on doesn't mean that that was the intended shot -- they may well have been just recycling an older explosion to save a few thousand dollars. It's all part of Moore's long-term project: Fucking With Starbuck. We'll let her get something, only to take it away again. So now she thinks she's killing herself and accepting death, then she'll "discover" she's a Cylon and come to terms with her new fambly, only to have that taken away again when she really discovers that it was all a sham to make her think she's a Cylon. Leoben's done similar shit before. Of course, this may be my way of saying "Wash will come through the door to save the day ANY! SECOND! NOW!"

By: poppo

poppo — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:17:14 -0800

Grey's Anatomy in space. I miss when sci-fi was hardass. Amen dude I'll tell you exactly when I stopped watching: Cain orders the hit on Adama, and vice versa. At the end of the show IIRC, they both coincidentally call off their hits. And then Cain is conveniently killed off anyway. Biggest fucking cop-out EVER. I have not watched since.

By: Thorzdad

Thorzdad — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:22:31 -0800

And it looks like they're getting off their asses with regards to The Trial. Which has me dreading the remaining episodes of this season. Honest. Everytime the show dives into the politics (especially dealing with Balthar), it's like dropping a 30-ton boat anchor on the show.

By: drstein

drstein — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:26:40 -0800

"I HATE YOU ALL. Thanks, you turkeys. I haven't had the chance to see this episode yet. Way to go. Next time, put up a spolier alert somewhere Geez. Someone should be banned for this. " Hey, someone had to say it!

By: Prospero

Prospero — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:39:24 -0800

"I HATE YOU ALL. Thanks, you turkeys. I haven't had the chance to see this episode yet. Way to go. Next time, put up a spolier alert somewhere Geez. Someone should be banned for this. " Yeah--it seems like a minor spoiler (I guess?), but this FPP really could have done with a "more inside" after the first sentence or two. Not quite worth a callout, as it'll only result in a few posters holding their noses up and claiming that "good art can't be spoiled," and so on. And I'll probably have forgotten this by the time Season 3 comes out on DVD. (The Captain America post above this is far worse, though. And I don't even care about DC/Marvel comics.)

By: odinsdream

odinsdream — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:51:32 -0800

I somehow find it hard to accept that Sackhoff's done with the show. The practical answer, then, is one of two things: She's one of the mystery Cylon models. They'll do a Six Feet Under thing where she appears all the time in memories, flashbacks or premonitions. Does anyone know enough about the industry to comment on this kind of thing? I.e., contracts with actors for a set amount of time. You have to reserve them so they don't run off to another show, but do you have any obligation to keep them in the show? Could they just pay out her contract? Renegotiate? The podcast leads one to believe it was rather unexpected; that Moore simply loved the idea of killing her off. It wasn't discussed or planned very far out, so what are the practicalities of such a decision?

By: Cyrano

Cyrano — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:23:57 -0800

Does anyone know enough about the industry to comment on this kind of thing? I.e., contracts with actors for a set amount of time. You have to reserve them so they don't run off to another show, but do you have any obligation to keep them in the show? There's some talk of that in this radio interview with Katee Sackhoff right after the episode aired.

By: Sparx

Sparx — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 13:54:45 -0800

Grey's Anatomy in space. I miss when sci-fi was hardass. Yeah - like Time Tunnel! Or Logan's Run! Or the awesome hardassery of Sliders. Or, lest we forget , all that hardass speechifying they did in Babylon 5. When the heck was TVSF ever more hardass than BSG?

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:23:08 -0800

BSG: Nothing is more hardass than watching 45 minutes of emo-gurning with the slim hope of seeing a robot or spaceship.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:52:31 -0800

Baltar has a special destiny, Hera has a special destiny, Number Three thought she had a special destiny, I bet Billy comes back as a cylon and he has a special destiny. I'm not so sure that Baltar's special destiny isn't his IMAGINARY FRIEND just confirming his self-importance. Hera, uh... Yeah. I totally forgot about her when posting this morning (d'oh). If Billy came back as a Cylon, it would be worth just for the scene where Roslin airlocks that motherfucker. Um... Boxing episode? Said sheepishly: I liked the boxing episode... I've not run into that many people (the admittedly not-statistically-significant TWoP grading for the episode bears this out, as the non-recapper grade is A- after 1600 votes) who hated it.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:55:25 -0800

PS: Like Baltar, I also attributed Three's "I've got a special fate!" to being crazy rather than being Special. Maybe I'm wrong there?

By: Artw

Artw — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 15:34:36 -0800

Horses for courses I guess... for me it was just about the most painfully boring episode of anything I've ever watched.

By: Dr. Zira

Dr. Zira — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:01:48 -0800

I was kind of disappointed with the episode until a friend of mine (a Classics major) came up with this theory (my husband also posted this on Fark, so some of you may have already read this): Essentially, we witnessed the apotheosis of Starbuck; she's not dead, but she's not alive just in "that place between life and death" She has has become Aurora Goddess of the Dawn, and and in true Greek tragedy form, she has great (even greater?) weaknesses... and in this tragedy she has an apotheosis. It's not a stretch to think she's a god... the theology of the humans resembles the polytheism of the ancient Greeks in which the gods were really just glorified humans... finite beings, in contrast to the ethical monotheism of the Cylons. The Aurora reference is confirmed by the Aurora statue she gave to Adama for his now smashed up ship. At the end, she's fingering the eject button, and Lee sees (or thinks he sees) a Cylon ship, so maybe the Cylon ship picks her up. So there you go. That's what happens when Classics majors watch SciFi. And if his theory turns out to be true, I have more respect for the writers and can forgive the inconsistent character development from all of this season.

By: Tenuki

Tenuki — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:16:55 -0800

> "She's one of the mystery Cylon models." I bet she'll show up back on the Galactica in a white flight suit.

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:42:09 -0800

I'm guessing Starbuck's not really dead, just stranded on a planet with a deactivated Cylon who she'll repair for companionship. Eventually she'll have a child who will be mysteriously sent into space only to be picked up by the Galactica. The child will have an awesome intelligence and assist Galactica when they eventually find a technologically-backward Earth. Mark my words! And the Cylons will follow Galactica to Earth, send a scouting team down, and inadvertently crash someone's Halloween party. Oh! And flying motercycles!

By: mazola

mazola — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 21:44:39 -0800

motorcycles even

By: quin

quin — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:20:37 -0800

We are of three minds in my household (which is difficult with only two people) about the route they will take with Starbuck. First, she's dead. Dead and gone kind of dead (Wash kind of dead for those still in denial.) As in Katee Sackhoff wanted off the show kind of dead. I think this is pretty unlikely. Another thought is that she is a Cylon, or part Cylon. An early generation hybrid/ half-breed from her mom's time in the first war. This is the one I am kinda leaning towards. She may be a Cylon, but like Boomer, she has her own path to follow. A really unlikely alternative that has been suggested is that the Cylons have figured out a way to use the Resurrection Ships to clone a human. If they go this route, I will be disappointed. The last is that she got out of the ship. Perhaps to be captured by the Raider that everyone thought wasn't actually there. Exempting the first idea where the actress wanted off the show, I think we will see her again. The problem is that the last season was not written by the people from the earlier episodes. And I'm deeply hoping that this doesn't turn into a really expensive version of Alias or Lost where the writers walk away from the project because something newer and shinier came along.

By: metasonix

metasonix — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:16:16 -0800

"know it's a typo, but this sentence burned an image in my mind of grown-up Wesley Crusher kicking down the hatch of the Serenity, all "IT'S ON MOTHERFUCKERS," and just brutalizing the whole entire crew with a broken gin bottle and a claw hammer." I'd pay good, hard currency to see that.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 23:40:37 -0800

As in Katee Sackhoff wanted off the show kind of dead. I think this is pretty unlikely. This theory is undermined by both the podcast (ie: Moore's description of how the writers worked out the story for this episode) and the radio interview with Katee linked in this thread. If she's dead-dead-dead, it's not 'cause she wanted off the show. Before the podcast, I was thinking that this will be like Jean Grey/Phoenix... But now I think she's actually gone. Like Buffy's mother gone. There'll be a few more apperances here and there by Ms. Sackhoff, but they will be in flashback/dreams, etc. And I'm deeply hoping that this doesn't turn into a really expensive version of Alias or Lost where the writers walk away from the project because something newer and shinier came along. Me too. Though I'm not worried about Ron Moore leaving before he's seen the show through. He seems pretty determined to run the show ~~into the ground~~ until he feels BSG has run its course. (He's said a couple times he has an idea as to where/how things end. I'm not sure I believe him, but I trust Moore way more than I ever did Chris Carter or JJ Abrams.)

By: dansdata

dansdata — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:03:18 -0800

I was disappointed when I discovered, on the blog of one of the BSG writers, that this show (like the Cylons) actually has no overarching plan. It feels as if people are making it up as they go along because... people are making it up as they go along. Some kind of arcs are apparently described in the series bible, but the writers really are just winging it almost all of the time. This is normal for all sorts of quality shows, of course, and it's not as if they can't come up with a good idea to wrap all of the loose ends up. But they may just as easily fall into dreadful Trekkery, where amazing discoveries about the universe are just forgotten in later episodes, or frustrating X-Filesery, where questions breed far faster than answers.

By: sparkletone

sparkletone — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 00:27:29 -0800

I was disappointed when I discovered, on the blog of one of the BSG writers, that this show (like the Cylons) actually has no overarching plan. Just to nitpick: The totally-awesome Jane Espenson is not really a BSG writer, as in she's not one of the staff writers. She's a freelancer who's written one episode, and co-written another (in that case the other person got the writing credit). More generally: I wouldn't say BSG is being completely improvised. At least, that's not the impression I've gotten from DVD commentaries and podcasts. That said, Moore's talked a lot in the podcasts about how he likes there to be a certain amount of improvisation in the show structure, and he likes the flexibility it provides them in plotting. He's been pretty up front about how that's come back to bite them in the ass a few times. There was a really good example this season where he talks about how there were major elements in one particular episode were going to be dropped after just the one episode. Originally, they'd originally played into the rest of the arc of the season, but they'd later come up with something way awesomer and had to kind of triage episodes that were further along in production.

By: bicyclefish

bicyclefish — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 01:06:12 -0800

Ah, mazola, I'm glad someone broke out the 1980. You win. This season has been more uneven than anything. The first five episodes, through Collaborators, were top-notch, best-of-the-series calibre. The mid-season two-parter was very solid. The last two weeks - since the union episode - have been amazing. The rest has ranged from weak (intermidable mumbo-jumbo on the baseships) to ill-considered (the ridiculous Bulldog episode) to maddening (what this series really needed was another two-shot where Starbuck and Apollo sneakily look at each other across the room while holding their parters). So if we assume that the last three episodes are going to be good, that's about a 50% average. But the good 50% were really, really good.

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 13:54:45 -0800

Dr. Zira wins the thread! Note one further point: Starbuck was in a mysterious whirling vortex when he events transpired. In another Ron Moore show, a mysterious whirling vortex held the godlike spirits of the Bajoran religion. Dr. Zira, in your world, did Starbuck ever lay foot to sand in the ages following Mr. Heston's visit?

By: Dr. Zira

Dr. Zira — Thu, 08 Mar 2007 18:22:43 -0800

Damned dirty Starbuck.

By: runningdogofcapitalism

runningdogofcapitalism — Mon, 26 Mar 2007 09:38:39 -0800

After viewing the season ender last night, add me to the list who say Dr. Zira wins this one.