Nobody remembers flypaper?

March 16, 2007 4:06 PM

It's a sticky subject.Romney apologized for his handling of it. Tony Snow felt it was "nice and zippy." John Kerry seems to have embraced it without any problems. Now John McCain latches onto it. Can he free himself?
posted by Kirth Gerson (55 comments total)

What I find far more offensive than the term 'tarbaby' is the fact that we have a Presidential candidate named 'Mitt.'
posted by jonmc at 4:10 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

And that he's a flaming Mormon.
posted by koeselitz at 4:17 PM on March 16, 2007

Oh, jeez - now you've stepped it it!
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:18 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

actually, his name is Willard
posted by Saucy Intruder at 4:21 PM on March 16, 2007

What I find more offensive than John McCain's use of the phrase "tar baby" is that he felt the need to apologize for it. It is an example of political correctness at its worst.
posted by christonabike at 4:22 PM on March 16, 2007

MeFi: Rinse and repeat.
posted by i_am_a_Jedi at 4:22 PM on March 16, 2007

It's Flip Romney... and Swift Boater Bob Perry has joined his cause.
posted by ericb at 4:23 PM on March 16, 2007

actually, his name is Willard

He chose to be called 'Mitt?' Even worse.
posted by jonmc at 4:25 PM on March 16, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

I thought he got that name because he had invented the baseball mitt.
posted by Postroad at 4:27 PM on March 16, 2007

I thought he was of Geman descent and his name was "With Romney."
posted by drjimmy11 at 4:28 PM on March 16, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

No, his parents named him Willard because they hoped he'd grow up to be a rat.
posted by jonmc at 4:29 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

From the Desk of Karl Rove [via facsimile, e-mail and teleconference] --

DAILY REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS (March 16, 2007; 7:00 P.M.)

(1) Clinton did it.
(2) Valerie Plame Wilson was never a covert agent, despite her sworn testimony today on Capitol Hill.
(3) Alberto is not 'Gone'-zalez.
(4) Things are looking up in Iraq.
(5) The President is optimistic that Republicans will prevail in 2008.
(6) Donald Trump is an asshole.
(7) Hillary is a "stereotypical" bitch.
(8) Do not, I repeat, do not use the term "tar baby" in public. Reserve it for the 'brandy-and-cigar' gathering tonight in the Oval Office. Boy those "tar-babies" sure can play some mean basketball.

posted by ericb at 4:31 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I can't really say I disagree with 6 and 7, dude.
posted by jonmc at 4:35 PM on March 16, 2007 [2 favorites has favorites]

He chose Mitt because he was jealous of how Newt Gingrich's name sounded lot more like a character from Dune.

I find objections to "tar baby" only slightly less absurd than those to "niggardly." However, I've only heard it used as a metaphor, and never as a derogatory term.
posted by brundlefly at 4:37 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Please stop jon. You're hurting America. Referring to a presidential candidate as a "stereotypical bitch" makes Americans look like a bunch of misogynist assholes. (And perhaps rightly so, but there's no need to add fuel to the fire.)
posted by SeizeTheDay at 4:41 PM on March 16, 2007

I'd be surprised to find this term has ever been used in an intentionally derogatory sense.

Next thing you know, people will be getting upset by references to that little spider with the red hourglass mark on its abdomen.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:45 PM on March 16, 2007

Next thing we'll find out is they all call "Sambo's" their favorite restaurant.
posted by Eekacat at 4:45 PM on March 16, 2007

OK, then. Can I refer to her as an insufferable yuppie harpy from hell instead? You gotta giv me something to work with here, unless you're one of those people who belives that disliking Hilary automatically makes you misogynist.
posted by jonmc at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2007

He chose Mitt because he was jealous of how Newt Gingrich's name sounded lot more like a character from Dune.

Newt Gingrich, Imperial Planetary Ecologist.


Mitt Romney sounds like one of those dudes with the purple lips or whatever.
posted by Avenger at 4:52 PM on March 16, 2007

So, saying "tar baby" is a tar baby?
posted by owhydididoit at 4:59 PM on March 16, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

Newt is from Aliens, y'all. You know, "...they mostly come at night. Mostly."
posted by owhydididoit at 5:01 PM on March 16, 2007

Rove, I'v heard, is also House Harkonnen.
posted by Token Meme at 5:02 PM on March 16, 2007

Damn it. "I've...." Been a long day.
posted by Token Meme at 5:05 PM on March 16, 2007

it could have been worse ... he could have said "quagmire"
posted by pyramid termite at 5:08 PM on March 16, 2007

Referring to a presidential candidate as a "stereotypical bitch" makes Americans look like a bunch of misogynist assholes.

But referring to someone (who refers to a presidential candidate as a "stereotypical bitch") as a "mysogynist asshole" makes Americans look like a bunch of stereotypical... wait, where was I?
posted by kid ichorous at 5:15 PM on March 16, 2007

Ha, I put too many y's in "misogynist." It's that damn chromosome!
posted by kid ichorous at 5:17 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

Before I read the first link, I wasn't aware of any meaning of "tar baby" other than it being a racist caricature of a black child. Honestly.

Oh, except for the band Tar Babies, who used to play quite a bit when I lived in Madison. Sometimes it would come up in conversation that people didn't know what the band name refered to, so I'd say there are plenty of folks who aren't familiar with the term at all.
posted by hydrophonic at 5:27 PM on March 16, 2007

I'm actually pretty vigilant about hate speech, but come on -- this is a well-established term and there isn't another good one.

"Fly paper" is an utterly different concept. Fly paper is simply a trap. A tar baby is something that you deliberately attack -- and then cannot get away from. Like Iraq.

I agree with the first link -- this is a rich and wise story from African-American history, let's celebrate it.

I'm actually quite surprised that Brer Rabbit isn't taught to every child in the United States. I certainly was taught it as a child growing up in the UK and Canada. What parts of African-American heritage does get taught?
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 5:37 PM on March 16, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

McCain's clearly learned the lesson of Macaca: apologize before the story has a chance to explode. I'm sure he didn't mean it in a racist sense, but it's better to just avoid potentially inflammatory language. He did the right thing by correcting himself quickly.
posted by EarBucket at 5:39 PM on March 16, 2007

Look who's calling the kettle black African-American.
posted by hal9k at 5:40 PM on March 16, 2007

What parts of African-American heritage does get taught?

George Washington Carver inventing peanut butter. That's about it.
posted by brundlefly at 5:43 PM on March 16, 2007

Can I refer to her as an insufferable yuppie harpy from hell instead? You gotta giv me something to work with here, unless you're one of those people who belives that disliking Hilary automatically makes you misogynist.

Call her "pander bear" because she loves to pander to idiots in the most transparent manner. Loudly against Grand Theft Auto for "Hot Coffee"? Check!

Makes a stand against flag burning to pander to mouth-breathers who don't understand the first amendment, but with a built in check valve for slightly smarter folks ("it's about public safety!") Check.

How does John "Give It To Me In The Ass, George W. Bush! I Love it!" McCain have more integrity than her? It's amazing!
posted by Mayor Curley at 5:47 PM on March 16, 2007

pyramid termite : it could have been worse ... he could have said "quagmire"

Giggity.
posted by quin at 5:49 PM on March 16, 2007

Oddly enough until Tony Snow said it (shortly after he was appointed Spinner-in-Chief) I had never once actually heard anyone use the words "tar baby" in speech. Yet it seems that since then people are using the expression like it's going out of style.
posted by clevershark at 6:11 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

McCain's clearly learned the lesson of Macaca

But(t), he's got a way to go regarding his knowledge as to whether condoms can be used as prevention of contracting/spreading HIV/AIDS.
posted by ericb at 6:17 PM on March 16, 2007

I love, love, love me some Bruh Rabbit stories, but sadly, no I don't think they teach them in schools any more. They might do Anansi stories, though. There's a story in Anansi Boys that is very similar to the tar baby, but I'm not sure how was traditional and how much Gaiman's invention.
posted by Biblio at 6:38 PM on March 16, 2007

I feel the same way as hydrophonic. I've only ever heard the term as a slur. I think the Brer rabbit stories have been out of circulation for so long that a lot of people don't know the story anymore.
posted by saffry at 7:18 PM on March 16, 2007

There's going to be hell to pay on Mefi when the sequel to Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby gets published.

It's called Brer Rabbit and the Re-tarred Baby.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:18 PM on March 16, 2007 [3 favorites has favorites]

John got beaten up by fascists.
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:24 PM on March 16, 2007

when is someone going to step up after saying something like this and say, "no, i'm not apologizing, why don't you just stop being offended by the littlest god-damned thing?"

apologizing for this pisses me off way more than the actual word he used.
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 7:39 PM on March 16, 2007 [1 favorite has favorites]

I'm actually quite surprised that Brer Rabbit isn't taught to every child in the United States. I certainly was taught it as a child growing up in the UK and Canada. What parts of African-American heritage does get taught?

Joel Chandler Harris was white. Maybe he stole the Brer Rabbit stories, but they weren't written for a black audience and they weren't written by a black person.
posted by Peach at 8:11 PM on March 16, 2007

Joel Chandler Harris was white. Maybe he stole the Brer Rabbit stories, but they weren't written for a black audience and they weren't written by a black person.

Stole them? I've always considered Harris a folklorist.
posted by brundlefly at 8:16 PM on March 16, 2007

I find objections to "tar baby" only slightly less absurd than those to "niggardly."

I've been beaten to the punchline again, dammit.

---

Mayor Curley, what do you have against receptive anal sex? Done voluntarily and safely it can be great fun. Of course it's not for everyone, but you don't have to denigrate those whose tastes (presumably) differ.
posted by davy at 8:22 PM on March 16, 2007

you can love anal sex and still use it as a nice metaphor.
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 8:34 PM on March 16, 2007

You can be a homophobe and still strain to wit.
posted by davy at 9:17 PM on March 16, 2007

They might do Anansi stories, though.
When I was a kid, I had a gorgeous picture book of an Anansi version of the Tar Baby tale. I think in that version it was called a "gum baby".
posted by straight at 10:44 PM on March 16, 2007

Wow, I've used the term 'tarbaby' before, but I never knew about its racist overtones. I just remember some adaptation of the Brer Rabbit story from my childhood.

It's silly that people have a problem with the term, but I guess I won't use it now. Life is hard enough - I don't need to be offending people.
posted by Afroblanco at 11:50 PM on March 16, 2007

davy writes "You can be a homophobe and still strain to wit."

"Strain to wit"? Is that a typo, or a phrase in common use. 'Cause I kinda like it.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:35 AM on March 17, 2007

It's used in strategic discussion quite a bit. I was aware of it as a racist thing, but I thought it went out of the vernacular that way in the late 50s.

Harold Gould (Center for South Asian Studies) used that exact term concerning Pakistan's triangulation theory: "The terrorist infrastructure is a tar baby of its own creation capable of bringing down anything resembling a moderate Government if the reinforced terrorist cells fully turn their wrath upon that Government."

That'd have to be one very motivated black man....we still use context or is that not a thing anymore?

(But waitaminute...Harold Gould was also a right-handed pitcher who played for the Negro League's Gouldtown New Jersey baseball club....so maybe....nah, nah, he was also a guy on the t.v. show Rhoda, so ferget it.)
posted by Smedleyman at 12:40 AM on March 17, 2007

Ummm... just for the record, the link to "John Kerry embraces it" goes to an unofficial blog of people writing about how they would like Kerry to run in 2008. The blog's commentors, not Kerry, use the term "tar baby" to describe a possible Kerry strategy concerning the Iraq War. That's some sloppy linkage, and I can only assume the poster kept googling the term "tar baby" trying to find any links to politicians...

I remember a school assembly from childhood (late 70s early 80s) wherein a storyteller told us the stories of Brer Rabbit. I also remember classmates throughout my schooling using the term "tar baby" to refer to African American children. Even amongst a group that may know its original usage it has been perverted to be a slur. When we're talking about a Republican Party that makes ridiculous African-American-targeted radio commercials featuring pimps and other stereotypes, the usage of "tar baby" is at least suspect.
posted by Slothrop at 1:30 AM on March 17, 2007

You're right - it's not John Kerry who wrote that, and I was sloppy. I was so surprised to see the term under his name that I skipped over the box at the top to read the meat. Also, I was reluctant to believe that only Republicans use the term, much as I dislike them.

As for how I came up with the links, that's what I wanted the post to be about, so that's what I searched for. Is that somehow not OK? Would you care if Donald Trump or Tim Crews used it? I wouldn't.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:42 AM on March 17, 2007

I've never heard "tar baby" used as a racist term.

Furthermore, it's blatantly obvious that he wasn't using it as a slur.

But for me to stand here before all these people and say that I'm going declare divorces invalid because someone feels that they weren't treated fairly in court, we are getting into a, uh, uh, tar baby of enormous proportions.

Replacing 'tar baby' with 'black person'/African American/darkie/whatever doesn't make the slightest lick of sense.

John McCain bows to the PC mod. They're all the same.
posted by unixrat at 5:36 AM on March 17, 2007

I don't understand the disappointment with John McCain for apologizing. Should he have responded by saying he doesn't care if he offends black people? Doesn't seem like a good strategy when you're asking them to vote for you.

Furthermore, it's blatantly obvious that he wasn't using it as a slur.

A classmate of mine designed an insulated water bottle and came up with the name "Coolie" when he put it in his portfolio. Of course he wasn't using it as a slur--he had no idea what it meant. But he changed the name after we told him to look it up.

Tony Snow said that people who have a problem with "tar baby" "don't understand "a hundred and fifty years of American culture." What is up with this idea that the majority group gets to tell minority groups what they should and shouldn't be offended over?

I'm actually quite surprised that Brer Rabbit isn't taught to every child in the United States. I certainly was taught it as a child growing up in the UK and Canada. What parts of African-American heritage does get taught?

I went to Chicago public schools, and I got plenty. As for Brer Rabbit, maybe images of rural plantation life was something to leave behind when blacks moved to northern cities in the Great Migration. My girlfriend grew up in Cleveland, and she'd never heard the Tar Baby story either. I'm going to ask around.
posted by hydrophonic at 11:07 AM on March 17, 2007

Brer Rabbit stories are the only stories told in a Black Plantation dialect, Eastern Georgia I believe. All the other traces of the various Black dialects pre- Emancipation, are lost to history. They reveal a rich African story telling tradition, that was brought to the South through the slaves and was picked by the society as a whole. It was very obvious that the old man telling the stories was Brer Rabbit; clever, sagious and he always won. Fast forward to the Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons, to find a reincarnation.
posted by Rancid Badger at 9:04 AM on March 18, 2007

Fast forward to the Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner cartoons, to find a reincarnation.

Instead of a reincarnation of Brer Rabbit in particular, I'd say the Warner Brothers cartoons tap into the trickster tradition in general. That's part of why I prefer them to the Disney shorts.
posted by brundlefly at 11:32 AM on March 18, 2007