Comments on: WWII Close-Quarters Combat

WWII Close-Quarters Combat

tellurian — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:19:12 -0800

Gutterfighting - any means, fair or foul, to save your life. Including The Kengla/Styers Short-End Technique. [tip o' the hat to Warren Leonhardt's 007 post] [related]

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:31:38 -0800

Sweet Christmas!

By: IronLizard

IronLizard — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:39:25 -0800

This looks familiar. Familiar like those 'loose 160 pounds in six weeks' commercials familiar.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:45:09 -0800

This will save my ass in Metatalk.

By: cubby

cubby — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:50:25 -0800

having spent over a decade studying traditional martial arts, complete with forms, one-step combinations, sparring, and other stuff that hasn't really prepared me much at all for a real life-or-death type fight -- I really appreciate the luxury of being able to train my body and mind for health, power, and control and not to develop kill-or-be-killed type instincts.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:52:19 -0800

Interesting reading! ::prints out, stores with Anarchist's Cookbook::

By: juv3nal

juv3nal — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:03:39 -0800

That's ridiculous. Between pics 1 and 2, stick boy takes a step forward, but his victim somehow remains frozen in place.

By: Wonderwoman

Wonderwoman — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:07:56 -0800

Never knew I could get so much accomplished with the *side* of my hand.

By: abulafa

abulafa — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:08:14 -0800

Do I remember a similar post from a while back about 19th century cane fighting? (not a double, I just want to find that post...)

By: unixrat

unixrat — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:13:04 -0800

I say old Chap, I really took it to those slant-eyes in Bangalore! I was surrounded in a dark alley deep in heart of the ol' East Indian Trading Company territory when I was set upon by a frightful number of darkies! Well, I recalled my old gutterfighter training from my days at Eton and with the help of my trusty Marks and Spencer iron-tipped cane I attacked! "Have at you!", I cried as the short-end jabbed true. Then, one attacked from the rear! I drove the long end deep into his monkey-like bread basket and Bob's your uncle, I was free. Why I still kept my manners and tipped my pith at them before returning to the club for a late crumpet. Dreadful place, Bangalore.

By: sebastienbailard

sebastienbailard — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:14:26 -0800

This is not how gentlemen fight.

By: tellurian

tellurian — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:16:44 -0800

abulafa - here?

By: Telf

Telf — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:30:46 -0800

Also check out Bartitsu. Not sure if this was posted here at one point or not.

By: abulafa

abulafa — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:34:53 -0800

tellurian: I should have searched for "walking-stick" not "cane." Thanks. Giggle... Bar-tits-u. Also a winner. (And props to unixrat for setting the, uh, mood.)

By: Wonderwoman

Wonderwoman — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:35:01 -0800

No seriously, get it....... *side* of my hand.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 21:51:06 -0800

This is not how gentlemen fight. Ah, you've gotta love the old-fashioned chapter titles. On the Egregious Over-use of Capitals and Long Sentence Fragments to Blithely Summarize that Which Will Be Repeated Again in Ensuing Paragraphs, Only Not in Bold. Jolly-good!

By: BigSky

BigSky — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:00:49 -0800

It's been a long time since I checked out this site. I think the guy who originally ran it turned it over to one of Carl Cestari's students. If you're interested in this stuff, google up Carl Cestari. He has some video tapes for sale that demonstrate most if not all of the WWII combatives. It's pretty simple technique wise, after all it was understood that this was really going to be put to use. That's one of the big differences between it and a lot of martial arts, is there is nothing in there that demands fine motor skills. Carl is a good teacher and reportedly Rex Applegate, a combat instructor for the OSS and author of _Kill or Get Killed_, saw a video of him and called it one of the best demonstrations he had ever seen. They appear to be down right now but the site get-tough.net is another site with scans of old manuals from this time period. One standout is a Nazi collection of gangster hand to hand combat moves. For some reason I think it's British gangsters that the Nazis were studying but don't quote me on that.

By: Sukiari

Sukiari — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:23:13 -0800

That's awesome. Don't underestimate the power of a concealed handgun though.

By: The Deej

The Deej — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:57:19 -0800

Step 1. Beat shit out of opponent with stick. Step 2. See step 1.

By: Spacelegoman

Spacelegoman — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:02:08 -0800

Step 1: Beat the bloody hell out of opponent with cane, old boy. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Crumpet!!

By: TheOnlyCoolTim

TheOnlyCoolTim — Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:04:06 -0800

The records of the particular police force of the semi-Oriental city referred to earlier show that the force, consistently trained the methods of this book, has to its creclit in twelve and a half years no less than 666 armed encounters with criminals. (p. 20 of PDF)

By: wsg

wsg — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 00:13:46 -0800

Brilliant, unixrat!

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 01:42:47 -0800

Carl Cestari learned his WWII combatives from the legendary developers, W E Fairbairn (writer of Get Tough! and Shoot To Live), Rex Applegate and Bill Underwood (creator of Defendo). Here's where it gets slightly more interesting from a historical perspective - Bill Underwood learned his techniques from a man named Yukio Tani, a Jujutsu specialist who was in England after having been dragged around various stage shows by Edward Barton Wright (the man who stripped Jujutsu bare and renamed it Bartitsu and btw was apparently a collossal wanker and racist - e.g. a standard "gentleman" of the time). It's amazing to see the links between all these characters - it's also allowed me to go on a 30 minute link rampage through tons of old SOE/OSS documents that have been declassified and also to dig up some gems such as this memoir of Silent Kill training by British composer Humphrey Searle who served with SOE units in WWII.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:10:55 -0800

The eyes. Go for the eyes. People instinctively try to protect their eyes. I carry an umbrella in fair weather. The spike top is one hell of a stabbing weapon, and in a him-or-me defensive sitch, I am totally not squeamish about rupturing an enemy's eyeball. Fight's over at that point -- severe eye injuries are excruciating and incapacitating. If I'm defending myself, he had it coming. If you can't get an eye, fracturing a larynx with a hard blow is good -- easy target, spectacular and usually final results. Knees, shins and insteps are surprisingly sensitive to kicking/stamping/raking, but you can't always be sure you've taken your enemy out and need to follow up with something crippling or killing, fast. Okay, have we covered this sufficiently? I need to go look at kittens or something.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 05:58:51 -0800

pax dig speaks true: When in doubt, poke it with a stick.

By: Demogorgon

Demogorgon — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 06:17:43 -0800

So 'Gutterfighting' is just another way of saying 'kicking him in the seeds,' right?

By: tellurian

tellurian — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 07:09:38 -0800

Demogorgon - or 'biting him in the seeds'.

By: Pressed Rat

Pressed Rat — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 08:24:35 -0800

The article about Jelly Bruce was very interesting. Excellent find!

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:12:32 -0800

Never bring a stick to a knife fight.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 09:40:32 -0800

A sharp stick!

By: Merlyn

Merlyn — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:44:40 -0800

Pointed stick? Oh, oh, oh. We want to learn how to defend ourselves against pointed sticks, do we? Getting all high and mighty, eh? Fresh fruit not good enough for you eh? Well I'll tell you something my lad: when you're walking home tonight and some great homicidal maniac comes after you with a bunch of loganberries, don't come crying to me!

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 13:41:33 -0800

I'm just really happy to see you.

By: mrmojoflying

mrmojoflying — Tue, 03 Apr 2007 18:26:31 -0800

Okay, have we covered this sufficiently? I need to go look at kittens or something. You forgot the insoles of the feet. Rather unprotected nerve ganglia there if your foe is barefoot and you can get to them. If all else fails, convince him/her/it to display their shallow arch and rap them soundly right across it with that stick. Here kitty kitty

By: cenoxo

cenoxo — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 09:51:28 -0800

When in doubt, poke it with a stick. From Where have all the batons gone? (a history of police batons):

The first documented police baton was called a truncheon, a small wooden police baton carried in the United Kingdom since the early 1800's. It was manufactured as a striking tool to be used primarily against resistant British subjects who were noted in those days to have a strong penchant for 'various forms of revelry and drunken debauchery'. It was London in the nineteenth century; a hard core urban environment and Constables who were charged with suppressing disorderly conduct in the wild streets of this city would often deploy their small wooden clubs to usher along crowds and to reinforce their orders and commands.

There's nothing like a little positive reinforcement now and then...