The Most Hated Family in America
April 4, 2007 3:35 AM Subscribe
The Most Hated Family in America (Parts 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7) The BBC spends some time with the notorious Westboro Baptist Church of Fred Phelps, et alli. (Note: Some NSFW language and tons of crazy)
I saw this last night. It was a good show. Theroux manages to convey the right amount of gormless sincerity to pull people out of their shells and explain what should be unexplainable. I was left feeling really sad for the children / young adults. They're trapped into doing what they do and this was powerfully conveyed here.
posted by seanyboy at 3:52 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by seanyboy at 3:52 AM on April 4, 2007
Phelps is so crazy that he is actually a registered Democrat.
At least if he were a Republican he might have a better chance of finding some fellow travelers. Talk about going it alone.
posted by psmealey at 4:02 AM on April 4, 2007
At least if he were a Republican he might have a better chance of finding some fellow travelers. Talk about going it alone.
posted by psmealey at 4:02 AM on April 4, 2007
The "batshitinsane" tag isn't very appropriate. Is there a superlative to batshit insanity? I propose "baptistinsane"
posted by slater at 4:06 AM on April 4, 2007 [13 favorites]
posted by slater at 4:06 AM on April 4, 2007 [13 favorites]
I wish I could tire of these people, but unless they decide to physically attack others I'm good for finding them a source of amusement. There's no way I would let them offend me.
I've been out of the UK for a while, when did this air?
posted by saturnine at 4:06 AM on April 4, 2007
I've been out of the UK for a while, when did this air?
posted by saturnine at 4:06 AM on April 4, 2007
Personally I'm beginning to suspect that Phelps and Friends are agent provocateurs for Richard Dawkins and his (ugh) "Brights". They certainly do a great job of showing biblical literalism in the worst possible light.
posted by Scoo at 4:08 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Scoo at 4:08 AM on April 4, 2007
BBC reporters are like the straight men in a comedy duo.
BBC: "It's not one of the ten commandments, is it?"
Wacky Religious Chick: "Ah yes, Thou shalt not commit adultery"
BBC: "That's not being gay, it's cheating on someone."
WRC: "The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex: that's adultery. So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery just because you're a fag."
This is great television. These people should really have their own reality show.
posted by three blind mice at 4:08 AM on April 4, 2007
BBC: "It's not one of the ten commandments, is it?"
Wacky Religious Chick: "Ah yes, Thou shalt not commit adultery"
BBC: "That's not being gay, it's cheating on someone."
WRC: "The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex: that's adultery. So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery just because you're a fag."
This is great television. These people should really have their own reality show.
posted by three blind mice at 4:08 AM on April 4, 2007
I've been out of the UK for a while, when did this air?
April 1st.
They published a letter in response to the BBC yesterday (it was here but their website appears to be down now)
Dear British Bastards,
The humble prophets of WBC are
already receiving your vile hate e-mail
full of filth and violence – very
predictable – in response to the BBC’s
airing of The Most Hated Family in
America, about our picketing ministry
to the world. For information and
details see
www.godhatesfags.com,
www.godhatesamerica.com, and
www.thesignsofthetimes.net.
It is a great privilege to be found
worthy to be the mouth of God to this
evil world, and to be hated for the
name of Christ. Doomed america is
full (over 2 million) of false prophets,
pretending to be a “Christian nation.”
Doomed america was founded in
gospel truth, and God blessed and
strengthened her. With time, she
forsook God, and turned to herself,
believing herself to be so powerful that she had no more need of her
Creator. That was a mistake. Today Doomed america is swollen with unfounded pride,
led by Bombastic Big Mouth Bastard Bush, whom God and his holy angels have duped
into starting a war they cannot win. God is the #1 enemy and terrorist of Doomed america,
and it’s too late.
Meanwhile, you British Beasts have had no claim to salvation for man years. You cruelly
persecuted the prophets whom God sent you, leading your citizens to flee your tyrannical
so-called Acts of Uniformity, Acts of Supremacy, five-mile act, and similar outrageous
laws against God. Indeed, at your hand Bright Shining America was founded. That was
necessary to have a super power rise up – which was necessary to lead to these Last of the Last Days. That’s the one decent thing you Bubblehead Brits have done in your entire
history.
Now you’re part of a cursed and doomed world and generation. Very shortly Christ is
going to come through the clouds, in power and glory, with his holy angels, taking
vengeance on them who knew not God and obeyed not the gospel. That would include
every one of you British Bastards.
So don’t waste your time lobbing your half-baked hate missives at us. We’ve dealt with
the violent, vicious, bloody, vindictive, God-cursed Doomed americans on their mean
streets for over 15 years. You twits in England are no match, and indeed today you are but
a pale shadow of your former selves (when the British Empire covered one-fourth of the
earth’s surface), because God has not blessed you in a long time. You are simply a
raunchy little group of pagans, no larger than Oregon, who long ago quit pretending to
believe in God, and who have given yourselves over fully to lust and sin. The only good
news we can offer you is that you are not in as much trouble with God today – most likely
– as Doomed america, and her false lying whore prophets and her “leaders.” But you have
access to the Bible just like us, and you are responsible to know it and follow it. It would
be well, however, for you to get a Bible, read it, AND OBEY. The end of this world
draws nigh. Your words will change nothing. These immovable facts stand constant and
forever:
God hates fags.
God hates fag enablers.
Therefore, God hates England.
God hates the world
It’s too late to pray.
The judge is even at the door.
There doesn’t appear to be a single citizen of England who has any grace or any
hope of heaven. Thus, when the Day of Destruction arrives, all 60.6 million of
you are going to split hell wide open.
There is no time off for good behavior in eternity – IT’S FOR EVER!
Most of mankind is going to hell. The default is hell.
England, like Doomed america, has sinned away her last day of grace. Now all
that’s left is a fearful watching for the final judgment.
We don’t give a groat for what you have to say – neither does God. Your words
change exactly nothing. (In Doomed america we say, we don’t give a rat’s
backside what you say. )
Uncommon cowardice is a common virtue for your military members, and your
Bombastic Big Mouth Bastard Blair, a/k/a Bush’s Lap Dog. God is the enemy of
your military, and you will never win another battle.
Thanks to the BBC for broadcasting our message into hundreds of millions of households,
hotel rooms, cruise ships and airliners – all on their nickel. Our goal is to publish – not
convert the Wicked One and his children. Now all of you will be without excuse on the
Great and Terrible Day of Judgment. This little flock of slaughter – whom the whole
world hates – has by the grace and mercy of God, delivered the message to the round
world – God hates you!
In closing, enjoy these words we wrote to your national anthem and military song. Enjoy!
Tally ho! Cheerio! Toodles! And don’t trip on the way to the loo!
God Hates Your Queen & Land!
God hates your filthy Queen,
Many large lies we’ve seen,
fall from her lips!
She caused the troops to die,
Her pomp is just a lie,
Her diplomats are filthy fags;
Now God hates your Queen!
God sent the latent foe,
And the assassin’s blow,
God hates your Queen!
To her God’s finger points,
He’ll break your British joints,
Your filthy mother is your pomp,
Now God hates your Queen!
Your royal whores abound
God will not hear a sound
Of your false prayers
He sent Iran to you
With you – He’ll let them do
Whatever punishment He’s planned
Now God hates your land!
England’s Favorite Military Song
(Sing to Gary Owens UK Military Song)
Well, you told all the buggers to
Come on in
Then you fussed and you fumed when we
Called it a sin
Now you stand and you scratch
Your feces crusted chin
And wonder why God killed
Your soldiers again
They are all gone to hell, and you
Know it’s the truth
But you mock and decry how we
Have no real proof
And you look to the Bible and call
It a spoof
You’ll know we are right when
God smashes your tooth
(Chorus)
God hates, He hates, God hates
Your troops
God hates, He hates, God hates
Your troops
You laugh and mock at this plain
Simple truth
But soon He is coming then you’ll
Have your proof
Semper Fi, Semper Fags, Coming Home in Body Bags, No Toes for the Toe Tags,
Because you Worship Filthy Bloody Fag Flags!
Prophets of WBC
April 1, 2007
I think I prefer the National Anthem like that
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:22 AM on April 4, 2007
April 1st.
They published a letter in response to the BBC yesterday (it was here but their website appears to be down now)
Dear British Bastards,
The humble prophets of WBC are
already receiving your vile hate e-mail
full of filth and violence – very
predictable – in response to the BBC’s
airing of The Most Hated Family in
America, about our picketing ministry
to the world. For information and
details see
www.godhatesfags.com,
www.godhatesamerica.com, and
www.thesignsofthetimes.net.
It is a great privilege to be found
worthy to be the mouth of God to this
evil world, and to be hated for the
name of Christ. Doomed america is
full (over 2 million) of false prophets,
pretending to be a “Christian nation.”
Doomed america was founded in
gospel truth, and God blessed and
strengthened her. With time, she
forsook God, and turned to herself,
believing herself to be so powerful that she had no more need of her
Creator. That was a mistake. Today Doomed america is swollen with unfounded pride,
led by Bombastic Big Mouth Bastard Bush, whom God and his holy angels have duped
into starting a war they cannot win. God is the #1 enemy and terrorist of Doomed america,
and it’s too late.
Meanwhile, you British Beasts have had no claim to salvation for man years. You cruelly
persecuted the prophets whom God sent you, leading your citizens to flee your tyrannical
so-called Acts of Uniformity, Acts of Supremacy, five-mile act, and similar outrageous
laws against God. Indeed, at your hand Bright Shining America was founded. That was
necessary to have a super power rise up – which was necessary to lead to these Last of the Last Days. That’s the one decent thing you Bubblehead Brits have done in your entire
history.
Now you’re part of a cursed and doomed world and generation. Very shortly Christ is
going to come through the clouds, in power and glory, with his holy angels, taking
vengeance on them who knew not God and obeyed not the gospel. That would include
every one of you British Bastards.
So don’t waste your time lobbing your half-baked hate missives at us. We’ve dealt with
the violent, vicious, bloody, vindictive, God-cursed Doomed americans on their mean
streets for over 15 years. You twits in England are no match, and indeed today you are but
a pale shadow of your former selves (when the British Empire covered one-fourth of the
earth’s surface), because God has not blessed you in a long time. You are simply a
raunchy little group of pagans, no larger than Oregon, who long ago quit pretending to
believe in God, and who have given yourselves over fully to lust and sin. The only good
news we can offer you is that you are not in as much trouble with God today – most likely
– as Doomed america, and her false lying whore prophets and her “leaders.” But you have
access to the Bible just like us, and you are responsible to know it and follow it. It would
be well, however, for you to get a Bible, read it, AND OBEY. The end of this world
draws nigh. Your words will change nothing. These immovable facts stand constant and
forever:
God hates fags.
God hates fag enablers.
Therefore, God hates England.
God hates the world
It’s too late to pray.
The judge is even at the door.
There doesn’t appear to be a single citizen of England who has any grace or any
hope of heaven. Thus, when the Day of Destruction arrives, all 60.6 million of
you are going to split hell wide open.
There is no time off for good behavior in eternity – IT’S FOR EVER!
Most of mankind is going to hell. The default is hell.
England, like Doomed america, has sinned away her last day of grace. Now all
that’s left is a fearful watching for the final judgment.
We don’t give a groat for what you have to say – neither does God. Your words
change exactly nothing. (In Doomed america we say, we don’t give a rat’s
backside what you say. )
Uncommon cowardice is a common virtue for your military members, and your
Bombastic Big Mouth Bastard Blair, a/k/a Bush’s Lap Dog. God is the enemy of
your military, and you will never win another battle.
Thanks to the BBC for broadcasting our message into hundreds of millions of households,
hotel rooms, cruise ships and airliners – all on their nickel. Our goal is to publish – not
convert the Wicked One and his children. Now all of you will be without excuse on the
Great and Terrible Day of Judgment. This little flock of slaughter – whom the whole
world hates – has by the grace and mercy of God, delivered the message to the round
world – God hates you!
In closing, enjoy these words we wrote to your national anthem and military song. Enjoy!
Tally ho! Cheerio! Toodles! And don’t trip on the way to the loo!
God Hates Your Queen & Land!
God hates your filthy Queen,
Many large lies we’ve seen,
fall from her lips!
She caused the troops to die,
Her pomp is just a lie,
Her diplomats are filthy fags;
Now God hates your Queen!
God sent the latent foe,
And the assassin’s blow,
God hates your Queen!
To her God’s finger points,
He’ll break your British joints,
Your filthy mother is your pomp,
Now God hates your Queen!
Your royal whores abound
God will not hear a sound
Of your false prayers
He sent Iran to you
With you – He’ll let them do
Whatever punishment He’s planned
Now God hates your land!
England’s Favorite Military Song
(Sing to Gary Owens UK Military Song)
Well, you told all the buggers to
Come on in
Then you fussed and you fumed when we
Called it a sin
Now you stand and you scratch
Your feces crusted chin
And wonder why God killed
Your soldiers again
They are all gone to hell, and you
Know it’s the truth
But you mock and decry how we
Have no real proof
And you look to the Bible and call
It a spoof
You’ll know we are right when
God smashes your tooth
(Chorus)
God hates, He hates, God hates
Your troops
God hates, He hates, God hates
Your troops
You laugh and mock at this plain
Simple truth
But soon He is coming then you’ll
Have your proof
Semper Fi, Semper Fags, Coming Home in Body Bags, No Toes for the Toe Tags,
Because you Worship Filthy Bloody Fag Flags!
Prophets of WBC
April 1, 2007
I think I prefer the National Anthem like that
posted by ZippityBuddha at 4:22 AM on April 4, 2007
Hey saturnine - This programme aired on Sunday night on BBC2 at 9:00...
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:25 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:25 AM on April 4, 2007
In case you are wondering what would make Hannity turn around and say, "You are a sick, soulless, twisted, human being" to a conservative, here's the entire clip. They were also on fox news because they hate the amish.
posted by phaedon at 4:34 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by phaedon at 4:34 AM on April 4, 2007
I still say that it's only a matter of time before we find Fred Phelps in bed with a male prostitute. and possibly a chimp.
posted by jonmc at 4:34 AM on April 4, 2007 [11 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 4:34 AM on April 4, 2007 [11 favorites]
I'm curious where such a small church would get the funds for $200K worth travel each year, the houses and vehicles. Perhaps they are not as small as the visible congregation would indicate?
I'm also curious about whether they edited out actual scriptural references because the show had hardly any. As it was shown the Phelps mob can just be mocked as idiots without any real religious foundation rather than being viewed as an extreme end of the continuum of Christian thought.
posted by srboisvert at 4:37 AM on April 4, 2007
I'm also curious about whether they edited out actual scriptural references because the show had hardly any. As it was shown the Phelps mob can just be mocked as idiots without any real religious foundation rather than being viewed as an extreme end of the continuum of Christian thought.
posted by srboisvert at 4:37 AM on April 4, 2007
God hates Sweden. Did you know that he also hates America and Canada. Also, priests rape boys.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 4:39 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 4:39 AM on April 4, 2007
Darn - I was going to post about this. God hates you, Ljubljana!
posted by Drexen at 4:44 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Drexen at 4:44 AM on April 4, 2007
I watched this on Sunday. Pretty early on, Theroux realises there's no way he's going to get more than a hat full of crazy from the older church members and starts to focus on what outside life must be like for the younger ones. Their life outside the church sounded pretty shitty and I think the young girls he focused on were starting to sense that there is a life beyond the blinkered view the church espouses, which to me appeared to be "everyone outside our church is a fag (or "fag enabler") and is going to die".
Admittedly, this program was almost certainly edited to make me feel sympathetic towards the younger element, however, the bit where the 6 year old kid had a full cup of soda hit him upside the head at 20mph made me genuinely sad...
...that kid didn't know what hit him and he certainly had no idea why.
posted by davehat at 4:49 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Admittedly, this program was almost certainly edited to make me feel sympathetic towards the younger element, however, the bit where the 6 year old kid had a full cup of soda hit him upside the head at 20mph made me genuinely sad...
...that kid didn't know what hit him and he certainly had no idea why.
posted by davehat at 4:49 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
God hates the world
That pretty much sums it up for me.
posted by homodigitalis at 4:53 AM on April 4, 2007
That pretty much sums it up for me.
posted by homodigitalis at 4:53 AM on April 4, 2007
Bearshitinsane. No, wait, elephantshitinsane.
posted by The Straightener at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by The Straightener at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
And to contribute a bit more to the discussion - one of the recurring themes was that when not spouting their poisonous invective, a lot of the family (especially the younger members) were warm, friendly, and accepting. Theroux made the point that they were perhaps more closely knit than most families because of the mutual hostility between them and the outside world.
It looked almost schizophrenic sometimes, where they would be conversing with Theroux who would coax real, human responses and even the beginning of concessions to decency and toleration from them -- but when he probed too close to the nerve, they would shut down and start reeling off the typical Phelpsian hatepreaching. Quite affecting.
And I agree with davehat: it was really wrenching to see the little kids standing there holding 'those' placards, and reciting the adults' hateful language like it was a times table, and then get hit by the missiles passersby were throwing in anger.
Of course, people have the right to bring up their kids however they see fit, but I really hope some of them manage to break away from this hateful group. It definitely seemed that Phelps held them rapt with the weird, forceful charisma of a cult leader and a patriarch. As you would expect, he was extremely resistant to/dismissive of Theroux's questioning.
posted by Drexen at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2007
It looked almost schizophrenic sometimes, where they would be conversing with Theroux who would coax real, human responses and even the beginning of concessions to decency and toleration from them -- but when he probed too close to the nerve, they would shut down and start reeling off the typical Phelpsian hatepreaching. Quite affecting.
And I agree with davehat: it was really wrenching to see the little kids standing there holding 'those' placards, and reciting the adults' hateful language like it was a times table, and then get hit by the missiles passersby were throwing in anger.
Of course, people have the right to bring up their kids however they see fit, but I really hope some of them manage to break away from this hateful group. It definitely seemed that Phelps held them rapt with the weird, forceful charisma of a cult leader and a patriarch. As you would expect, he was extremely resistant to/dismissive of Theroux's questioning.
posted by Drexen at 5:00 AM on April 4, 2007
And here's the money shot:
The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex. That's adultery. So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery.
Stay out of the mudroom, kids.
posted by phaedon at 5:02 AM on April 4, 2007
The streets of this nation are full of married men having fag sex. That's adultery. So don't try to pretend that you don't come under the umbrella of adultery.
Stay out of the mudroom, kids.
posted by phaedon at 5:02 AM on April 4, 2007
The people throwing items are nothing more than jackbooted thugs. It's a shame that they actually cede moral highground to WBC.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 5:05 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 5:05 AM on April 4, 2007
I'd love to see how they rationalize it when one of them dies a horrible painful premature death. They'd probably say god loves them so much that he wanted them at his side pronto.
I didn't watch the program or the youtube video because I don't need the aggravation.
posted by Devils Slide at 5:05 AM on April 4, 2007
I didn't watch the program or the youtube video because I don't need the aggravation.
posted by Devils Slide at 5:05 AM on April 4, 2007
These people should really have their own reality show.
Now THIS is genius. Put these fuckers--all of them--on Survivor or The Amazing Race and ratings would go thru the fucking roof.
posted by dobbs at 5:11 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Now THIS is genius. Put these fuckers--all of them--on Survivor or The Amazing Race and ratings would go thru the fucking roof.
posted by dobbs at 5:11 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Devils Slide: Well, if you'd have watched the video, you'd have seen that question posited and answered.
Your presumption is incorrect.
posted by davehat at 5:19 AM on April 4, 2007
Your presumption is incorrect.
posted by davehat at 5:19 AM on April 4, 2007
In a demented sort of way this bunch may be unwittingly be doing gay people a favor. More mainstream people look at them and (judging by the response they were getting) think 'I don't want to be like that.' Not to mention, they've managed to alienate just about everybody besides themselves, which makes the Christina right look less and less appealing.
Also, they seem to love attention, which is their downfall. I can think of no other logic behind picketing soldiers funerals other than pure attention whoring, since it obviously does nothing but alienate people.
Of course, the flip side of that coin is that we can condemn them but the systematic and/or uncomscious homophobia and hatred that exists in everyday life goes merrily on.
posted by jonmc at 5:20 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
Also, they seem to love attention, which is their downfall. I can think of no other logic behind picketing soldiers funerals other than pure attention whoring, since it obviously does nothing but alienate people.
Of course, the flip side of that coin is that we can condemn them but the systematic and/or uncomscious homophobia and hatred that exists in everyday life goes merrily on.
posted by jonmc at 5:20 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
In a way I sooo wish I lived nearby these freaks. I'd take a week off work to plan an ingenious sabotage to their roadside madness.
posted by zardoz at 5:31 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by zardoz at 5:31 AM on April 4, 2007
jonmc has it right: 'I can think of no other logic behind picketing soldiers funerals other than pure attention whoring, since it obviously does nothing but alienate people.'
Picketing the funerals of people like Matthew Shepherd didn't get them enough airtime, so they switched to a subject that was bound to bring them to new heights of media coverage: picketing the funerals of dead soldiers (many of whom, ironically, easily could've shared the WBC's views on homosexuality).
I support Mr Phelps right to free speech, even though I vehemently disagree with both his message and his tatics.
Mad respect to Mr Theroux for being able to keep his dignity, hold his temper, and openly display his pity for Phelps' unfortunate grandchildren.
Who throws a full cup of soda at a seven-year-old, anyway?
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:32 AM on April 4, 2007
Picketing the funerals of people like Matthew Shepherd didn't get them enough airtime, so they switched to a subject that was bound to bring them to new heights of media coverage: picketing the funerals of dead soldiers (many of whom, ironically, easily could've shared the WBC's views on homosexuality).
I support Mr Phelps right to free speech, even though I vehemently disagree with both his message and his tatics.
Mad respect to Mr Theroux for being able to keep his dignity, hold his temper, and openly display his pity for Phelps' unfortunate grandchildren.
Who throws a full cup of soda at a seven-year-old, anyway?
posted by chuckdarwin at 5:32 AM on April 4, 2007
picketing the funerals of dead soldiers (many of whom, ironically, easily could've shared the WBC's views on homosexuality).
or maybe not. Let's be fair. I've known many people with military backgrounds who weren't homophobic at all.
But it is true that these people have even alienated many potential allies. Hannity, even Falwell has condemned them I think.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 AM on April 4, 2007
or maybe not. Let's be fair. I've known many people with military backgrounds who weren't homophobic at all.
But it is true that these people have even alienated many potential allies. Hannity, even Falwell has condemned them I think.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 AM on April 4, 2007
In part 3, the journalist drops his objectivity at one point and calls a member "Braniac." heh.
This is fascinating.
Part 2 is unbelievably sad.
posted by ColdChef at 5:37 AM on April 4, 2007
This is fascinating.
Part 2 is unbelievably sad.
posted by ColdChef at 5:37 AM on April 4, 2007
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand. Fucking awesome.
posted by ColdChef at 5:45 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by ColdChef at 5:45 AM on April 4, 2007
Did anyone else think while watching this that it was like someone had taken a beaker of Julia Stiles dna and a beaker of Rush Limberg dna, shaken them together, and churned out a batch of young fag-hating women who are, um, kind of hot in a weirdly disturbing way?
posted by lastobelus at 5:48 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by lastobelus at 5:48 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
It's fantastic that they have the right to spout whatever crap they want. It's really sad though they have the right to poison their children the way they do. Those kids should be taken from them.
posted by twistedonion at 5:50 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by twistedonion at 5:50 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
How would you ever satirize the WBC? So many moments in the documentary are like premium SNL or Kid's in the Hall punchlines.
LIke when Theroux asks Shirley what if the dead soldier was a good person and they're picketing the funeral of a decent person and she replies "Not a chance...poopy pants".
posted by lastobelus at 5:58 AM on April 4, 2007
LIke when Theroux asks Shirley what if the dead soldier was a good person and they're picketing the funeral of a decent person and she replies "Not a chance...poopy pants".
posted by lastobelus at 5:58 AM on April 4, 2007
I know someone who spent some time with a member of the family in a professional context(they both work in corrections) and he said she was very nice and friendly and never brought up her beliefs really at all. Although she did apparently make repeated references to "not having a lot of free time on weekends."
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:00 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 6:00 AM on April 4, 2007
They just do it for media attention, literally. There are a few disgruntled grandchildren out there that are in their mid-20s. I haven't watched all the documentary but I remember some local TV shows where the grandchildren were pretty much pleading that the family doesn't believe in what they say so much, just that the grandfather is a controlling egomaniac who will do anything for attention. He doesn't care what kind of attention he gets or for what, as long as he gets attention.
It goes a long way into explaining their behavior, which is much eye-rolling and cringe inducing. It is so extreme I've never seen or heard any reports that they've managed to garner followers to their position. They manage to be the real life equivalent of dropping a giant Goatse on the media.
If you really want to look at people keep gays down, go to all the loving mega churches which keep the rhetoric way down but manage to get all those anti-gay marriage laws passed.
posted by geoff. at 6:01 AM on April 4, 2007
It goes a long way into explaining their behavior, which is much eye-rolling and cringe inducing. It is so extreme I've never seen or heard any reports that they've managed to garner followers to their position. They manage to be the real life equivalent of dropping a giant Goatse on the media.
If you really want to look at people keep gays down, go to all the loving mega churches which keep the rhetoric way down but manage to get all those anti-gay marriage laws passed.
posted by geoff. at 6:01 AM on April 4, 2007
In part 3, the journalist drops his objectivity at one point and calls a member "Braniac." heh.
Actually the guy's name is 'Branioc'. It's somebody from the Bible who really hated fags.
posted by Flashman at 6:07 AM on April 4, 2007
Actually the guy's name is 'Branioc'. It's somebody from the Bible who really hated fags.
posted by Flashman at 6:07 AM on April 4, 2007
God Hates Shrimp, too, but apparently he hates fags more.
I'm pretty sure BBC means "British Bastards Company."
MetaFilter: Not a chance...poopy pants.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2007
Dear British Bastards,
I'm pretty sure BBC means "British Bastards Company."
MetaFilter: Not a chance...poopy pants.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:22 AM on April 4, 2007
Who throws a full cup of soda at a seven-year-old, anyway?
Ironic moralists?
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 6:26 AM on April 4, 2007
Ironic moralists?
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 6:26 AM on April 4, 2007
Devils Slide: Well, if you'd have watched the video, you'd have seen that question posited and answered.
Your presumption is incorrect.
Wouldn't be the first time. Maybe I'll pop a Zantac and suffer through one or two parts this morning.
posted by Devils Slide at 6:36 AM on April 4, 2007
Your presumption is incorrect.
Wouldn't be the first time. Maybe I'll pop a Zantac and suffer through one or two parts this morning.
posted by Devils Slide at 6:36 AM on April 4, 2007
jonmc -
I wasn't trying to be unfair, and there are certainly many, many soldiers who aren't homophobic... perhaps even a majority (hey, I can hope).
You have to admit, though, that the armed forces themselves have extremely discriminatory (and to my mind, homophobic) policies towards gays and lesbians. How could such any such organisation NOT attract a few homophobes? Didn't they recently dismiss an Arabic translator for being gay?
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:41 AM on April 4, 2007
I wasn't trying to be unfair, and there are certainly many, many soldiers who aren't homophobic... perhaps even a majority (hey, I can hope).
You have to admit, though, that the armed forces themselves have extremely discriminatory (and to my mind, homophobic) policies towards gays and lesbians. How could such any such organisation NOT attract a few homophobes? Didn't they recently dismiss an Arabic translator for being gay?
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:41 AM on April 4, 2007
srboisvert writes "I'm curious where such a small church would get the funds for $200K worth travel each year, the houses and vehicles."
zardoz writes "I'd take a week off work to plan an ingenious sabotage to their roadside madness."
The family consists primarily of lawyers with a lot of experience suing municipalities for civil rights and tort/negligence claims. Folks who perpetrate assault or battery actions against WBC events feed the trolls quite literally no matter how noble or justified their motives. Not that I disagree with you at all, zardoz.
posted by Fezboy! at 6:43 AM on April 4, 2007
zardoz writes "I'd take a week off work to plan an ingenious sabotage to their roadside madness."
The family consists primarily of lawyers with a lot of experience suing municipalities for civil rights and tort/negligence claims. Folks who perpetrate assault or battery actions against WBC events feed the trolls quite literally no matter how noble or justified their motives. Not that I disagree with you at all, zardoz.
posted by Fezboy! at 6:43 AM on April 4, 2007
chuckdarwin- I didn't figure you were, just didn't want to make it seem like any of us were presuming. apologies if misunderstood.
You have to admit, though, that the armed forces themselves have extremely discriminatory (and to my mind, homophobic) policies towards gays and lesbians. How could such any such organisation NOT attract a few homophobes?
Oh, agreed.
posted by jonmc at 6:44 AM on April 4, 2007
You have to admit, though, that the armed forces themselves have extremely discriminatory (and to my mind, homophobic) policies towards gays and lesbians. How could such any such organisation NOT attract a few homophobes?
Oh, agreed.
posted by jonmc at 6:44 AM on April 4, 2007
geoff said:
If you really want to look at people keep gays down, go to all the loving mega churches which keep the rhetoric way down but manage to get all those anti-gay marriage laws passed.
You mean like (my good buddy) Ted Haggard's place - The New Life Church?
His demise gave me the most profound schadenfreude of my entire life.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:45 AM on April 4, 2007
If you really want to look at people keep gays down, go to all the loving mega churches which keep the rhetoric way down but manage to get all those anti-gay marriage laws passed.
You mean like (my good buddy) Ted Haggard's place - The New Life Church?
His demise gave me the most profound schadenfreude of my entire life.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:45 AM on April 4, 2007
jonmc -
Cool, glad we're on the same page. This is my first day here, and I don't want to start off by making rash generalisations and pissing off the locals. *tips hat*
My friend (who is in Iraq right now, touch wood) reckons there are a lot of gays in the military and everyone just overlooks it... so we're probably right in our assumption that the homophobes are a vocal minority (just like in the rest of America).
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2007
Cool, glad we're on the same page. This is my first day here, and I don't want to start off by making rash generalisations and pissing off the locals. *tips hat*
My friend (who is in Iraq right now, touch wood) reckons there are a lot of gays in the military and everyone just overlooks it... so we're probably right in our assumption that the homophobes are a vocal minority (just like in the rest of America).
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:48 AM on April 4, 2007
chuckdarwin
many soldiers who aren't homophobic... perhaps even a majority (hey, I can hope).
I guess this is a decent gauge:
Seventy-three percent of US military members would accept openly gay and lesbian service members being in their units, according to a new poll released by Zogby International and the Michael D. Palm Center. Over one in five respondents to the survey said they know for certain that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian. The survey was conducted of both combat and non-combat units, according to a statement issued by the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network and obtained by PageOneQ...
New poll: Military okay with gays
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 6:51 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
many soldiers who aren't homophobic... perhaps even a majority (hey, I can hope).
I guess this is a decent gauge:
Seventy-three percent of US military members would accept openly gay and lesbian service members being in their units, according to a new poll released by Zogby International and the Michael D. Palm Center. Over one in five respondents to the survey said they know for certain that someone in their unit is gay or lesbian. The survey was conducted of both combat and non-combat units, according to a statement issued by the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network and obtained by PageOneQ...
New poll: Military okay with gays
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 6:51 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand.
You pretend you're tolerant, and yet you disrespect Swedish engineering. What a hypocrite.
posted by dhartung at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2007
You pretend you're tolerant, and yet you disrespect Swedish engineering. What a hypocrite.
posted by dhartung at 6:52 AM on April 4, 2007
ColdChef said -
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand. Fucking awesome.
Um, it's because they, um disagree with... the policies of the... Swedish government...
Oh, for fuck's sake. Why did you make me type that?
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:53 AM on April 4, 2007
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand. Fucking awesome.
Um, it's because they, um disagree with... the policies of the... Swedish government...
Oh, for fuck's sake. Why did you make me type that?
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:53 AM on April 4, 2007
Hey Gnostic Novelist -
Thanks for the googling. That was nice of you.
Knowledge is power.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:57 AM on April 4, 2007
Thanks for the googling. That was nice of you.
Knowledge is power.
posted by chuckdarwin at 6:57 AM on April 4, 2007
Um, it's because they, um disagree with... the policies of the... Swedish government...
Yumpin' Yiminy!
posted by jonmc at 6:59 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yumpin' Yiminy!
posted by jonmc at 6:59 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Fezboy! sez:
The family consists primarily of lawyers with a lot of experience suing municipalities for civil rights and tort/negligence claims. Folks who perpetrate assault or battery actions against WBC events feed the trolls quite literally no matter how noble or justified their motives. Not that I disagree with you at all, zardoz.
That's the scariest bit: these people have literally thought of everything. There's no way to stop them.
I can only hope, in all sincerity, that when Gramps dies (and it looks as if that day is looming) no one in the church will be able to hold it together well enough to continue the pickets - not even Ms Poopy Pants.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2007
The family consists primarily of lawyers with a lot of experience suing municipalities for civil rights and tort/negligence claims. Folks who perpetrate assault or battery actions against WBC events feed the trolls quite literally no matter how noble or justified their motives. Not that I disagree with you at all, zardoz.
That's the scariest bit: these people have literally thought of everything. There's no way to stop them.
I can only hope, in all sincerity, that when Gramps dies (and it looks as if that day is looming) no one in the church will be able to hold it together well enough to continue the pickets - not even Ms Poopy Pants.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2007
I love how the "most hated family" back in the day was the O'Hares, and now it's the Phelpses (allegedly).
Mind you, it has more to do with a group provocatively trashing something the country holds dear unto irrationality--public prayer on the one hand, sanctitude of fallen soldiers on the other--than tide-turning or any bullshit like that.
posted by adoarns at 7:03 AM on April 4, 2007
Mind you, it has more to do with a group provocatively trashing something the country holds dear unto irrationality--public prayer on the one hand, sanctitude of fallen soldiers on the other--than tide-turning or any bullshit like that.
posted by adoarns at 7:03 AM on April 4, 2007
Drexen noted (saliently) -
It looked almost schizophrenic sometimes, where they would be conversing with Theroux who would coax real, human responses and even the beginning of concessions to decency and toleration from them -- but when he probed too close to the nerve, they would shut down and start reeling off the typical Phelpsian hatepreaching. Quite affecting.
This is what brainwashing looks like in real life. It's like a computer program; if x = y, say 'god hates fags' and change the subject.
'Asked and answered.'
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:06 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
It looked almost schizophrenic sometimes, where they would be conversing with Theroux who would coax real, human responses and even the beginning of concessions to decency and toleration from them -- but when he probed too close to the nerve, they would shut down and start reeling off the typical Phelpsian hatepreaching. Quite affecting.
This is what brainwashing looks like in real life. It's like a computer program; if x = y, say 'god hates fags' and change the subject.
'Asked and answered.'
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:06 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Oi, ZippityBuddha -
Cheers for posting that 'response'. After Theroux' show aired to millions of British viewers, there's not much the Phelps camp could say or do to make a worse impression on people here... except make remarks about the Queen being a 'fag-enabler'.
Wow.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:09 AM on April 4, 2007
Cheers for posting that 'response'. After Theroux' show aired to millions of British viewers, there's not much the Phelps camp could say or do to make a worse impression on people here... except make remarks about the Queen being a 'fag-enabler'.
Wow.
posted by chuckdarwin at 7:09 AM on April 4, 2007
I know that it's a cliche to say that homophobes are usually repressed homosexuals, and in the case of casual homophobes, I don't even think it's neccessarily true. But guys like Phelps who make it their whole reason for existing...I really have to figure there's some deep denial going on. Not to mention he seems to have a deeply uhealthy disgust with anything sexual at all. Freud would have a field day with this cat. (also, I've seen him on TV and he's not even a particularly compelling preasher to watch either, this guys batting average sucks)
posted by jonmc at 7:15 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by jonmc at 7:15 AM on April 4, 2007
Having lived in the area, I'm the wrong audience for an introductory piece to the Phelps family, being more familiar with them then I'd have ever preferred. Still, I'm disappointed. There's a lot of potential here I think was squandered.
A major missing piece is an interview with the estranged Phelps children. They've spoken out in print in the past, and two recently gave interviews for Fall From Grace, a KU senior's film project (which I haven't seen). Even a few minutes of time given to them would have gone a long way to answering the interminably repeated questions the presenter asked about the cult-like atmosphere.
I'd also liked to have seen some deeper investigating into the family/church finances. Aside from mentioning their tithing requirements and travel expenses, there was nothing. Again, just a few minutes of background about their tax status, or just asking them about how they manage -- for instance, whether they receive donations -- would have been interesting.
Or hey, how about a basic historical overview? Phelps didn't just arrive at grampshood immaculately. He's a complex and bizarre person. He did a large amount of anti-Jim Crow litigation in Kansas, winning a NAACP award for his troubles. He was also disbarred in Kansas and has an an arrest record longer than your arm for assaults and other offenses dating from the 1950s. Instead, we get a few minutes of petulance with no context. The man's the key charismatic figure so some more background would have been useful.
I liked the small human moments (especially that poor boy struck by a drink from a passing car) but damn if this doesn't feel like a pilot for a new Bravo series, Phelps Me, where some hapless dude has to go through a series of challenges -- trampoline bouncing and sign-making and leaf raking and funeral attending -- while delivering some befuddled observations along the way along the lines of "um, aren't you a cult?" and "isn't wishing Hell on other people mean?" and "don't you think your Gramps is a little oh I don't know crazier than a cat on angel-dusted tuna"? Well: yes, yes, and no shit. Tell us something we didn't know.
posted by melissa may at 7:28 AM on April 4, 2007 [12 favorites]
A major missing piece is an interview with the estranged Phelps children. They've spoken out in print in the past, and two recently gave interviews for Fall From Grace, a KU senior's film project (which I haven't seen). Even a few minutes of time given to them would have gone a long way to answering the interminably repeated questions the presenter asked about the cult-like atmosphere.
I'd also liked to have seen some deeper investigating into the family/church finances. Aside from mentioning their tithing requirements and travel expenses, there was nothing. Again, just a few minutes of background about their tax status, or just asking them about how they manage -- for instance, whether they receive donations -- would have been interesting.
Or hey, how about a basic historical overview? Phelps didn't just arrive at grampshood immaculately. He's a complex and bizarre person. He did a large amount of anti-Jim Crow litigation in Kansas, winning a NAACP award for his troubles. He was also disbarred in Kansas and has an an arrest record longer than your arm for assaults and other offenses dating from the 1950s. Instead, we get a few minutes of petulance with no context. The man's the key charismatic figure so some more background would have been useful.
I liked the small human moments (especially that poor boy struck by a drink from a passing car) but damn if this doesn't feel like a pilot for a new Bravo series, Phelps Me, where some hapless dude has to go through a series of challenges -- trampoline bouncing and sign-making and leaf raking and funeral attending -- while delivering some befuddled observations along the way along the lines of "um, aren't you a cult?" and "isn't wishing Hell on other people mean?" and "don't you think your Gramps is a little oh I don't know crazier than a cat on angel-dusted tuna"? Well: yes, yes, and no shit. Tell us something we didn't know.
posted by melissa may at 7:28 AM on April 4, 2007 [12 favorites]
If heaven is supposed to be full of people like the WBC, I'm lucky I'm going to hell.
I didn't want to watch this until I realized it was Louis Theroux. I'd watch him interview anyone, apparently. The way he says, "That sounds insane," kills me.
posted by bayliss at 7:30 AM on April 4, 2007
I didn't want to watch this until I realized it was Louis Theroux. I'd watch him interview anyone, apparently. The way he says, "That sounds insane," kills me.
posted by bayliss at 7:30 AM on April 4, 2007
delivering some befuddled observations along the way along the lines of "um, aren't you a cult?" and "isn't wishing Hell on other people mean?" and "don't you think your Gramps is a little oh I don't know crazier than a cat on angel-dusted tuna"?
That's just Louis Theroux's thing. He goes and finds some crazy people, hangs out with them and asks them questions like "isn't this all a little crazy, really?" The idea being to slowly scrape away the craziness and try to reveal the people underneath. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not so well.
posted by reklaw at 7:34 AM on April 4, 2007
That's just Louis Theroux's thing. He goes and finds some crazy people, hangs out with them and asks them questions like "isn't this all a little crazy, really?" The idea being to slowly scrape away the craziness and try to reveal the people underneath. Sometimes it works well, sometimes not so well.
posted by reklaw at 7:34 AM on April 4, 2007
ColdChef: In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand.
Apparently, god hates Sweden
For some reason, Sweden has especially drawn his ire, since they're... uh... particularly fag-enabling? I seem to remember looking into this a few years ago, when they were planning a protest at my college up in New York, and deciding that Sweden was one of the first countries to enact full legislative protection of homosexual rights, which prompted Phelps to blow one of his few remaining gaskets over it. Sadly, I'm at work at the moment, and can't track that one down through Phelps' site, as his lovably-curmudgeonly ways might not fly so well here.
That letter leads me to believe that England might be next on his list. Tremble, ye heathen Brits.
posted by Mayor West at 7:41 AM on April 4, 2007
Apparently, god hates Sweden
For some reason, Sweden has especially drawn his ire, since they're... uh... particularly fag-enabling? I seem to remember looking into this a few years ago, when they were planning a protest at my college up in New York, and deciding that Sweden was one of the first countries to enact full legislative protection of homosexual rights, which prompted Phelps to blow one of his few remaining gaskets over it. Sadly, I'm at work at the moment, and can't track that one down through Phelps' site, as his lovably-curmudgeonly ways might not fly so well here.
That letter leads me to believe that England might be next on his list. Tremble, ye heathen Brits.
posted by Mayor West at 7:41 AM on April 4, 2007
Ah, these cuckoos are just around to keep the Bushes off the top spot on the hate list.
posted by breezeway at 7:44 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by breezeway at 7:44 AM on April 4, 2007
It seems sad to me that people are allowed to screw up other humans (their children) any way they want. I know, who gets to make up the rules about what is ok, but jeez this seems like a crime all by itself.
posted by Red58 at 7:51 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Red58 at 7:51 AM on April 4, 2007
Mayor West warns:
That letter leads me to believe that England might be next on his list. Tremble, ye heathen Brits.
*sips tea*
Oh, we're fucking terrified over here. They might even - picket. Oooo.
I wonder how many of them have passports?
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:02 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
That letter leads me to believe that England might be next on his list. Tremble, ye heathen Brits.
*sips tea*
Oh, we're fucking terrified over here. They might even - picket. Oooo.
I wonder how many of them have passports?
posted by chuckdarwin at 8:02 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
That's just Louis Theroux's thing. He goes and finds some crazy people, hangs out with them and asks them questions like "isn't this all a little crazy, really?"
Yep. See if you can find his last show on Las Vegas. It was thoroughly depressing.
posted by smackfu at 8:04 AM on April 4, 2007
Yep. See if you can find his last show on Las Vegas. It was thoroughly depressing.
posted by smackfu at 8:04 AM on April 4, 2007
It seems sad to me that people are allowed to screw up other humans (their children) any way they want
That seems to be a hyper-determinist stance. I've never bought into the argument that, "Everyone has flaws because of the way they were raised." If that is true then society should still be stuck in the same morals as it was when it was first founded. It reminds me of those people who excuse racism because, "People are products of their time." If that is the case, how did we progress?
Kids get a free pass, but an ignorant adult can't blame his childhood. He can only blame himself.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 8:05 AM on April 4, 2007
That seems to be a hyper-determinist stance. I've never bought into the argument that, "Everyone has flaws because of the way they were raised." If that is true then society should still be stuck in the same morals as it was when it was first founded. It reminds me of those people who excuse racism because, "People are products of their time." If that is the case, how did we progress?
Kids get a free pass, but an ignorant adult can't blame his childhood. He can only blame himself.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 8:05 AM on April 4, 2007
After reading the response, I'm wondering if they are real-life versions of Usenet trolls. That's one hell of a flame.
posted by dw at 8:08 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by dw at 8:08 AM on April 4, 2007
I have to agree with melissa may—the show was fascinating (to me, because I wasn't as familiar with them) but disappointing. It may be his shtick, but sticking to dumb faux-naive questions strikes me as a waste of a rare opportunity to see a group like this from the inside. This said it all, for me: "Try as I might, nothing I said made any impact on her beliefs." Are you serious? Is that what he thought was going to happen, he'd show up and say "Isn't this a little, you know, weird?" and people would slap their foreheads and say "You're right—damn, I'm outta here!" Of course not, he was just pointing out over and over that he's "normal" (like the viewers!) and they're not, they're "weird." That's not what I call journalism.
And setting aside the peculiar offensiveness of their chosen message ("God hates fags"), they're basically just another separatist religious group. You can call them a "cult" if that makes you feel better, but it's not really saying anything useful. They're a religious group whose message is offensive to the vast majority of Americans and Europeans, and their particular message and modus operandi makes them very visible and draws media attention, but the fact is that Mr. Theroux would take basically the same tack if he were interviewing members of any religous group that didn't take the easygoing "you're OK, I'm OK" tack we expect from mainstream modern religions. If he could go back in time and interview the Pilgrims as they were about to sail for America, he'd have taken the same line: "Do you think I'm going to hell? And all those perfectly nice Englishmen and Dutchmen? Doesn't that make you feel bad? And don't you want your children to have the right to a normal life?" Hell, he could ask the same questions of the Pope, who also (presumably) thinks he's going to hell.
And let's face it, the gal is right when she tells him he's wasting his time asking silly and inappropriate questions. That's what reporters do, and that's why I have little respect for most of them. Put your average reporter in front of Einstein or Gandhi or a resurrected Jesus, and they'll immediately start in with their basic list of Dumb Celebrity Questions: romantic life? views on the Hot Topic of the Day? do you want to have kids? favorite color? I mean, disgusting as Fred Phelps is, I'd a thousand times rather hear him talk about, say, how he came to understand the Bible the way he does, or even what that TACHMONITE on the blackboard behind him means, than have the reporter bait him and have him get mad, all entirely predictable and boring. But that's media biz.
posted by languagehat at 8:09 AM on April 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
And setting aside the peculiar offensiveness of their chosen message ("God hates fags"), they're basically just another separatist religious group. You can call them a "cult" if that makes you feel better, but it's not really saying anything useful. They're a religious group whose message is offensive to the vast majority of Americans and Europeans, and their particular message and modus operandi makes them very visible and draws media attention, but the fact is that Mr. Theroux would take basically the same tack if he were interviewing members of any religous group that didn't take the easygoing "you're OK, I'm OK" tack we expect from mainstream modern religions. If he could go back in time and interview the Pilgrims as they were about to sail for America, he'd have taken the same line: "Do you think I'm going to hell? And all those perfectly nice Englishmen and Dutchmen? Doesn't that make you feel bad? And don't you want your children to have the right to a normal life?" Hell, he could ask the same questions of the Pope, who also (presumably) thinks he's going to hell.
And let's face it, the gal is right when she tells him he's wasting his time asking silly and inappropriate questions. That's what reporters do, and that's why I have little respect for most of them. Put your average reporter in front of Einstein or Gandhi or a resurrected Jesus, and they'll immediately start in with their basic list of Dumb Celebrity Questions: romantic life? views on the Hot Topic of the Day? do you want to have kids? favorite color? I mean, disgusting as Fred Phelps is, I'd a thousand times rather hear him talk about, say, how he came to understand the Bible the way he does, or even what that TACHMONITE on the blackboard behind him means, than have the reporter bait him and have him get mad, all entirely predictable and boring. But that's media biz.
posted by languagehat at 8:09 AM on April 4, 2007 [4 favorites]
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand.
Y'know, I was going to make a joke about gay men, mechanical suction and that old Chris Rock bit about his gay uncle ("he just didn't have anyone to be gay with!"), but I thought better of it. I'm no Coulter, I know when my jokes are gonna fall flat.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:12 AM on April 4, 2007
Y'know, I was going to make a joke about gay men, mechanical suction and that old Chris Rock bit about his gay uncle ("he just didn't have anyone to be gay with!"), but I thought better of it. I'm no Coulter, I know when my jokes are gonna fall flat.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:12 AM on April 4, 2007
How are these people different from Focus on the Family or the Catholic Church or any other random church or mosque? Other than the Phelps family saying what they really think, I still can't figure that out.
posted by cmonkey at 8:15 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by cmonkey at 8:15 AM on April 4, 2007
i'm at a loss to understand why one of the mourners at a soldier's picketed funeral hasn't yet "accidentally" swerved off the road and run over 4-5 of these people. somebody alert me when that goes up on youtube.
posted by bruce at 8:27 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by bruce at 8:27 AM on April 4, 2007
i'm at a loss to understand why one of the mourners at a soldier's picketed funeral hasn't yet "accidentally" swerved off the road and run over 4-5 of these people.
That the number of people who act out their psychotic fantasies (no matter how "justified" they may be) is still tiny, is largely a good thing.
posted by psmealey at 8:32 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
That the number of people who act out their psychotic fantasies (no matter how "justified" they may be) is still tiny, is largely a good thing.
posted by psmealey at 8:32 AM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
It's hosted by Louis Theroux?!
I saw a program of his where he tried out to be a porn actor that was so hilarious ... but hey, if Ron Jeremy could make it, then why not Louis?
posted by Relay at 8:34 AM on April 4, 2007
I saw a program of his where he tried out to be a porn actor that was so hilarious ... but hey, if Ron Jeremy could make it, then why not Louis?
posted by Relay at 8:34 AM on April 4, 2007
Quartermaster Clerk: One Swedish-made penis enlarger.
Austin Powers: [to Vanessa] That's not mine.
Quartermaster Clerk: One credit card receipt for Swedish-made penis enlarger signed by Austin Powers.
Austin Powers: I'm telling ya baby, that's not mine.
Quartermaster Clerk: One warranty card for Swedish-made penis enlarger pump, filled out by Austin Powers.
Austin Powers: I don't even know what this is! This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby.
Quartermaster Clerk: One book, "Swedish-made Penis Enlargers And Me: This Sort of Thing Is My Bag Baby", by Austin Powers.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:35 AM on April 4, 2007
Austin Powers: [to Vanessa] That's not mine.
Quartermaster Clerk: One credit card receipt for Swedish-made penis enlarger signed by Austin Powers.
Austin Powers: I'm telling ya baby, that's not mine.
Quartermaster Clerk: One warranty card for Swedish-made penis enlarger pump, filled out by Austin Powers.
Austin Powers: I don't even know what this is! This sort of thing ain't my bag, baby.
Quartermaster Clerk: One book, "Swedish-made Penis Enlargers And Me: This Sort of Thing Is My Bag Baby", by Austin Powers.
posted by kirkaracha at 8:35 AM on April 4, 2007
GodhatesSweden.com is HILARIOUS:
"You jackass Swedes just don't get it. Once you have laws to chill Bible preaching, we don't give a rat's tutu whatever else you do or say. You are drippings from the Devil's own penis - a veritable sperm bank for Satan's queers."
"The King looks like an anal-copulator, & his grinning kids look slutty & gay!"
"Swedish kids are taught it's OK to be gay and incestuous."
Well, hell. That's it. As someone of proud Swedish descent, I'm moving back to the motherland. It sounds a-ok compared to what Phelps has in mind for the States...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:43 AM on April 4, 2007
"You jackass Swedes just don't get it. Once you have laws to chill Bible preaching, we don't give a rat's tutu whatever else you do or say. You are drippings from the Devil's own penis - a veritable sperm bank for Satan's queers."
"The King looks like an anal-copulator, & his grinning kids look slutty & gay!"
"Swedish kids are taught it's OK to be gay and incestuous."
Well, hell. That's it. As someone of proud Swedish descent, I'm moving back to the motherland. It sounds a-ok compared to what Phelps has in mind for the States...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:43 AM on April 4, 2007
melissa may and languagehat, you are fundamentally misunderstanding what Louis Theroux does. This was not meant to be a hard-hitting expose or a journalistic scoop.
He operates from the basic premise that even the craziest people are human, and tries to get them to drop the public persona that they show to the world. By hanging out with them over several days he tries to get people to like and trust him, and lower their guard, revealing their true personalities. He's not out to do a hatchet-job. As you say, he could have asked tougher questions. But that would have turned him into just another journalist, not a documentary maker. It's a similar technique to that of Nick Broomfield, and when it works, the results can be simultaneously funny and illuminating.
posted by salmacis at 8:44 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
He operates from the basic premise that even the craziest people are human, and tries to get them to drop the public persona that they show to the world. By hanging out with them over several days he tries to get people to like and trust him, and lower their guard, revealing their true personalities. He's not out to do a hatchet-job. As you say, he could have asked tougher questions. But that would have turned him into just another journalist, not a documentary maker. It's a similar technique to that of Nick Broomfield, and when it works, the results can be simultaneously funny and illuminating.
posted by salmacis at 8:44 AM on April 4, 2007 [2 favorites]
kirkaracha, you'd love what I bought my boyfriend at the thrift store recently: here's a link to a similar model. The Sawa I got has "made in Sweden" and the Swedish flag all over the box.
I left a "Dear [bf], I bought you a new penis pump, Love, me" note for him to find when I went out to teach.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2007
I left a "Dear [bf], I bought you a new penis pump, Love, me" note for him to find when I went out to teach.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 8:48 AM on April 4, 2007
That's not what I call journalism.
That's true. Louis sucks at investigative reporting but he is a fantastic observational journalist. Just hangs around and people get very comfortable in his company. Personally I think he gets a lot more out of people than journalists who charge in with a preconcieved notion of what the end result will be. With Louis there really isn't much of an agenda.
posted by twistedonion at 8:50 AM on April 4, 2007
That's true. Louis sucks at investigative reporting but he is a fantastic observational journalist. Just hangs around and people get very comfortable in his company. Personally I think he gets a lot more out of people than journalists who charge in with a preconcieved notion of what the end result will be. With Louis there really isn't much of an agenda.
posted by twistedonion at 8:50 AM on April 4, 2007
Did anyone else think while watching this that ...a batch of young fag-hating women who are, um, kind of hot in a weirdly disturbing way?
You're not alone. Shirley's pendulous breasts caught my attention the first moment I laid eyes on them. I really liked how she called him 'hon' all the time. And Her daughter! OMG! When I saw her, my huge, proud cock strained at the fabric that held it captive until I released it into the glorious sight of God. I saw the dew from the mouth of my organ glisten and I gave thanks to our Lord that I was not a fag, not a rectum-loving cum-drinking adulterer fisting pee-swallowing sinner, like the rest of you. Shirley got it right when she said, "I'm telling you that we're the ones who are strictly adhering to the doctrines of faith of all the mainline religions. They're not . We are."
Amen.
posted by sluglicker at 8:59 AM on April 4, 2007
You're not alone. Shirley's pendulous breasts caught my attention the first moment I laid eyes on them. I really liked how she called him 'hon' all the time. And Her daughter! OMG! When I saw her, my huge, proud cock strained at the fabric that held it captive until I released it into the glorious sight of God. I saw the dew from the mouth of my organ glisten and I gave thanks to our Lord that I was not a fag, not a rectum-loving cum-drinking adulterer fisting pee-swallowing sinner, like the rest of you. Shirley got it right when she said, "I'm telling you that we're the ones who are strictly adhering to the doctrines of faith of all the mainline religions. They're not . We are."
Amen.
posted by sluglicker at 8:59 AM on April 4, 2007
They should've sent Bruno from the Ali G show. Now there's an interview.
posted by fungible at 9:03 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by fungible at 9:03 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not familiar with this Theroux guy, but the look on his face while the family is singing in the first episode is priceless. It's an interesting form of journalism.
This will be fascinating to watch - and of course insanely frustrating and depressing.
Still thinking about that dosing with LSD comment upthread. Heck, whatever jolts folks back to sanity and tolerance.
posted by rmm at 9:16 AM on April 4, 2007
This will be fascinating to watch - and of course insanely frustrating and depressing.
Still thinking about that dosing with LSD comment upthread. Heck, whatever jolts folks back to sanity and tolerance.
posted by rmm at 9:16 AM on April 4, 2007
Man, I am so happy to see Louis Theroux again! He had an amazing documentary show a few years ago, I think it ran six episodes here in the states, and it was one of the most fearless things I've ever seen.
posted by jbickers at 9:32 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by jbickers at 9:32 AM on April 4, 2007
Where is Shirley's husband in all this (he's briefly seen attending to his son)? I guess they have no problem with her having authority of men.
posted by xmattxfx at 9:33 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by xmattxfx at 9:33 AM on April 4, 2007
If you want to understand Phelps and why he continues to do what he does, you must read this expose on him. It is a public domain (released as part of a lawsuit) and shows how Phelps is a controlling cult leader who has kidnapped family members in the past who left him and uses whatever means he can in order to stay in control.
posted by clockworkjoe at 9:41 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by clockworkjoe at 9:41 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Xtian Wackoz forthelulz you say? Just in case anyone on the Internet missed it: Dork-sided.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:09 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:09 AM on April 4, 2007
I get your point salamacis, and it's a good one, so I think for me it boils down to a basic narrative preference. I already know that aside from the outright psychopaths that crazy people are human, and that we are all complicated and flawed to various degrees. Grounding in specific details and facts makes such people more real to me -- as in, once you know that Fred Phelps was once a dedicated civil rights lawyer, you have to take about twenty steps back from understanding him as an unreconstructed bigot. He had a much better profile on that question than many of his generation, including lots of religious and civic leaders. Why not ask him about that? Why not talk to his estranged kids, just for a bit of perspective on what it's like to emerge from such an insular and destructive family culture?
Absent any deeper history about these people I think they become more cartoonish, not less -- but again, I guess I'm asking for something more from this than was ever intended.
posted by melissa may at 10:09 AM on April 4, 2007
Absent any deeper history about these people I think they become more cartoonish, not less -- but again, I guess I'm asking for something more from this than was ever intended.
posted by melissa may at 10:09 AM on April 4, 2007
This got to me a little. I mean, before watching this, my attitude towards the Phelps family was essentially one of dismissive contempt for the lot of them.
It surprises me a bit to find out that several of them are, in my book, really much more worthy of "You poor child, what have these people done to you?" I never really appreciated just how thoroughly some of these young people's choices have been taken away from them.
posted by tyllwin at 10:15 AM on April 4, 2007
It surprises me a bit to find out that several of them are, in my book, really much more worthy of "You poor child, what have these people done to you?" I never really appreciated just how thoroughly some of these young people's choices have been taken away from them.
posted by tyllwin at 10:15 AM on April 4, 2007
psmealey: "that the number of people who act out their psychotic fantasies (no matter how "justified" they may be) is still tiny, is largely a good thing."
yeah, but it only takes one, and i'm getting a sense that the one is statistically overdue.
i question whether the "fantasies" are "psychotic". to me, psychosis means the inability to distinguish make-believe from reality. i see no evidence that aggrieved mourners have lost their grip on reality.
funerals are for the living, to help come to terms with the loss of their loved one. strangers who show up to insult the memory of the deceased "he's a fag burning in hell" inflict deliberate, gratuitous pain on the mourners. i'm a peace-loving man who prefers peaceful resolutions to conflicts, but one of the things i credit for the unusually peaceful environment i inhabit is the knowledge on the part of those around me that i am not possessed of unlimited tolerance. homo sapiens (take that, you homo) is a competitive, occasionally predatory species in which a reputation for unlimited tolerance can actually compromise one's peaceful objectives.
posted by bruce at 10:16 AM on April 4, 2007
yeah, but it only takes one, and i'm getting a sense that the one is statistically overdue.
i question whether the "fantasies" are "psychotic". to me, psychosis means the inability to distinguish make-believe from reality. i see no evidence that aggrieved mourners have lost their grip on reality.
funerals are for the living, to help come to terms with the loss of their loved one. strangers who show up to insult the memory of the deceased "he's a fag burning in hell" inflict deliberate, gratuitous pain on the mourners. i'm a peace-loving man who prefers peaceful resolutions to conflicts, but one of the things i credit for the unusually peaceful environment i inhabit is the knowledge on the part of those around me that i am not possessed of unlimited tolerance. homo sapiens (take that, you homo) is a competitive, occasionally predatory species in which a reputation for unlimited tolerance can actually compromise one's peaceful objectives.
posted by bruce at 10:16 AM on April 4, 2007
i've always hoped that when Phelps dies they'll be some kind of super-outrageous gay pride event / protest held near the funeral.
posted by breakfast_yeti at 10:26 AM on April 4, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by breakfast_yeti at 10:26 AM on April 4, 2007 [5 favorites]
jonmc - there's actually some pretty convincing scientific research to suggest that homophobe's really are gay. This paper shows that male homophobes have penile arousal when shown male gay pornographic images, while straight male non-homophobes do not.
posted by MythMaker at 10:27 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by MythMaker at 10:27 AM on April 4, 2007
Gnostic Novelist. My point is still valid. It will take years of therapy and wasted youth to work all that out. And despite your demand for adult behavior many do not, or worse can not, overcome this damage. And we as a society, are all the worse for it.
posted by Red58 at 11:20 AM on April 4, 2007
posted by Red58 at 11:20 AM on April 4, 2007
That whole thing was worth watching for when she says, "Not a chance. . . poopy pants."
How can you argue against that?
posted by mealy-mouthed at 11:25 AM on April 4, 2007
How can you argue against that?
posted by mealy-mouthed at 11:25 AM on April 4, 2007
melissa may writes "I already know that aside from the outright psychopaths that crazy people are human"
Even psychopaths are human.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:40 AM on April 4, 2007
Even psychopaths are human.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:40 AM on April 4, 2007
Personally I think he gets a lot more out of people than journalists who charge in with a preconcieved notion of what the end result will be. With Louis there really isn't much of an agenda.
You thought there wasn't an agenda? Huh, either we have different ideas of what an agenda is or we were watching different shows. I'm reasonably sure he went into it thinking they were weird and he was going to see if he could get them to admit they were weird. All the while being his lovable empathetic self, of course.
already know that aside from the outright psychopaths that crazy people are human, and that we are all complicated and flawed to various degrees. Grounding in specific details and facts makes such people more real to me
Exactly. And melissa may gave me more to chew on than 90% of that show with her next sentences:
as in, once you know that Fred Phelps was once a dedicated civil rights lawyer, you have to take about twenty steps back from understanding him as an unreconstructed bigot. He had a much better profile on that question than many of his generation, including lots of religious and civic leaders. Why not ask him about that? Why not talk to his estranged kids, just for a bit of perspective on what it's like to emerge from such an insular and destructive family culture?
Why not? With all that time to play around with, why not take a few minutes to explore some of that stuff? But no, the only thing that interests Louis is "OMG weird gay-hating Xians what about the children???"
posted by languagehat at 11:51 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
You thought there wasn't an agenda? Huh, either we have different ideas of what an agenda is or we were watching different shows. I'm reasonably sure he went into it thinking they were weird and he was going to see if he could get them to admit they were weird. All the while being his lovable empathetic self, of course.
already know that aside from the outright psychopaths that crazy people are human, and that we are all complicated and flawed to various degrees. Grounding in specific details and facts makes such people more real to me
Exactly. And melissa may gave me more to chew on than 90% of that show with her next sentences:
as in, once you know that Fred Phelps was once a dedicated civil rights lawyer, you have to take about twenty steps back from understanding him as an unreconstructed bigot. He had a much better profile on that question than many of his generation, including lots of religious and civic leaders. Why not ask him about that? Why not talk to his estranged kids, just for a bit of perspective on what it's like to emerge from such an insular and destructive family culture?
Why not? With all that time to play around with, why not take a few minutes to explore some of that stuff? But no, the only thing that interests Louis is "OMG weird gay-hating Xians what about the children???"
posted by languagehat at 11:51 AM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
Bikers Roll to Soldiers' Funerals to Counter Anti-Gay Protests.
posted by ericb at 12:44 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ericb at 12:44 PM on April 4, 2007 [1 favorite]
You thought there wasn't an agenda?
not much of an agenda, yes. Of course he has an agenda, all documentary makers do - but I don't think it's quite as cynical as you seem to suggest.
Yes, he has his lovable empathetic angle but it works for him, the documentary about Eugene Terreblanch was fantastic and I doubt he would have managed it without being the big "naive", dopey Englishman he plays.
I've seen Louis Theroux speak on a number of occassions about his documentaries and he always comes across as someone who is genuinely interested in the weird and wonderful (and sometimes not so wonderful) people who live on the margins. By delving deeper you are abusing the trust of the people who invited you in and they'll probably just boot you out real quick. Besides, I don't think that interests him and that's fair enough. You don't watch a Louis Theroux show to find out hard hitting facts and shocking revelations, it's purely observational in a non confrontational way.
posted by twistedonion at 1:16 PM on April 4, 2007
not much of an agenda, yes. Of course he has an agenda, all documentary makers do - but I don't think it's quite as cynical as you seem to suggest.
Yes, he has his lovable empathetic angle but it works for him, the documentary about Eugene Terreblanch was fantastic and I doubt he would have managed it without being the big "naive", dopey Englishman he plays.
I've seen Louis Theroux speak on a number of occassions about his documentaries and he always comes across as someone who is genuinely interested in the weird and wonderful (and sometimes not so wonderful) people who live on the margins. By delving deeper you are abusing the trust of the people who invited you in and they'll probably just boot you out real quick. Besides, I don't think that interests him and that's fair enough. You don't watch a Louis Theroux show to find out hard hitting facts and shocking revelations, it's purely observational in a non confrontational way.
posted by twistedonion at 1:16 PM on April 4, 2007
You don't watch a Louis Theroux show to find out hard hitting facts and shocking revelations, it's purely observational in a non confrontational way.
Fine, but I think you're misunderstanding me. My complaint is that he's too "hard-hitting." Rather than purely observe, which could have led to some fascinating footage, he insists on pushing the same buttons over and over again: "But don't you see how weird you are? Don't you want to date?" He comes across (to me, anyway) as obsessively concerned with deviations from the norm rather than as a pure observer. I mean, we can see how weird these people are for ourselves, we don't need him joggling our elbow every few minutes to point it out.
posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on April 4, 2007
Fine, but I think you're misunderstanding me. My complaint is that he's too "hard-hitting." Rather than purely observe, which could have led to some fascinating footage, he insists on pushing the same buttons over and over again: "But don't you see how weird you are? Don't you want to date?" He comes across (to me, anyway) as obsessively concerned with deviations from the norm rather than as a pure observer. I mean, we can see how weird these people are for ourselves, we don't need him joggling our elbow every few minutes to point it out.
posted by languagehat at 1:31 PM on April 4, 2007
I actually don't think Phelps & Co. are all that crazy within the context of Christianity. Frankly, they're right... the bible does say that we should kill homosexuals, so if anyone is missing the boat, it's the rest of the Christian community.
The issue here is that it's just plain crazy to look to an Iron Age text on how to run you life or society. Ignore god and he'll go away.
posted by Rusty Iron at 1:47 PM on April 4, 2007
The issue here is that it's just plain crazy to look to an Iron Age text on how to run you life or society. Ignore god and he'll go away.
posted by Rusty Iron at 1:47 PM on April 4, 2007
Hooray! I love sleep.
posted by Rusty Iron at 2:02 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by Rusty Iron at 2:02 PM on April 4, 2007
I find it ironic that Phelps loves God, God hates America, but Phelps could only survive in America (isn't that homophobia in a nutshell: you hate what you need?). If he were in Austria, he'd likely be imprisoned.
posted by mattbucher at 2:17 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by mattbucher at 2:17 PM on April 4, 2007
It's a British show. Christian fundamentalism is a lot more rare in the UK, especially of this hateful sort. The burden isn't on Theroux to make something entirely objective.
Unlike the rest of the civilized world, Americans have become innured to some pretty outrageous bullshit on the part of their native Christian population.
posted by bardic at 2:46 PM on April 4, 2007
Unlike the rest of the civilized world, Americans have become innured to some pretty outrageous bullshit on the part of their native Christian population.
posted by bardic at 2:46 PM on April 4, 2007
Rather than purely observe, which could have led to some fascinating footage, he insists on pushing the same buttons over and over again: "But don't you see how weird you are? Don't you want to date?"
True, but I took another angle on that. I ended up sympathising with those kids. I'd probably act in a similar way If I stayed with a bunch of crazies. It's the disbelief that a young woman wouldn't want to date, not be able to see that they are weird.
That whole family seems to have been indoctrinated by a bunch of scary homophobic men. It's the first time I've really heard of the family. I found the whole documentary quite scary and it made me pretty angry. But overall it's very sad.
posted by twistedonion at 2:53 PM on April 4, 2007
True, but I took another angle on that. I ended up sympathising with those kids. I'd probably act in a similar way If I stayed with a bunch of crazies. It's the disbelief that a young woman wouldn't want to date, not be able to see that they are weird.
That whole family seems to have been indoctrinated by a bunch of scary homophobic men. It's the first time I've really heard of the family. I found the whole documentary quite scary and it made me pretty angry. But overall it's very sad.
posted by twistedonion at 2:53 PM on April 4, 2007
A slightly contrarian view. I see Phelps as the canary in the coal mine. If he can say what he says in very public venues, then I fear not to utter whatever comes to mind.
posted by telstar at 2:55 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by telstar at 2:55 PM on April 4, 2007
"God hates fags.
"God hates fag enablers.
"Therefore, God hates England."
I guess God is indifferent to Wales and Scotland then.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:02 PM on April 4, 2007
"God hates fag enablers.
"Therefore, God hates England."
I guess God is indifferent to Wales and Scotland then.
posted by EndsOfInvention at 4:02 PM on April 4, 2007
lanhuagehat and melissa may: I think that it may come down to personal preference whether you think Louie Theroux is a good documentary maker or not but he is certainly well practised in his style. If you are a fan of what he does you know what to expect. The type of documentary you both wanted would have to be made by someone else.
posted by meech at 4:47 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by meech at 4:47 PM on April 4, 2007
God is America's Terrorist
There's something poetic about the whole thing. I salute Phelps, how many other florid psychotics walk around freely and have a bevy of beautiful babes besides?
posted by telstar at 4:51 PM on April 4, 2007
There's something poetic about the whole thing. I salute Phelps, how many other florid psychotics walk around freely and have a bevy of beautiful babes besides?
posted by telstar at 4:51 PM on April 4, 2007
Some of us view all religion the same way you guys are looking a WBC.
posted by Megafly at 5:39 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by Megafly at 5:39 PM on April 4, 2007
"Jezebellian switch-hitting whore."
See? Pure poetry. I hear America talking.
posted by telstar at 6:09 PM on April 4, 2007
See? Pure poetry. I hear America talking.
posted by telstar at 6:09 PM on April 4, 2007
Watching more of this, I'm convinced this is fantastic television. Learning more about them as individuals, you see that they are in many ways intelligent, happy, and open to discussion. That discussion is weird in many ways. Especially the young daughter in college: she's very open with Theroux.
I guess the most disturbing thing is how true sociopathic behavior is doable. These folks have banished themselves from society itself, created their own island of astoundingly radical philosophies.
posted by zardoz at 7:11 PM on April 4, 2007
I guess the most disturbing thing is how true sociopathic behavior is doable. These folks have banished themselves from society itself, created their own island of astoundingly radical philosophies.
posted by zardoz at 7:11 PM on April 4, 2007
This family is a Nick Cave song waiting to be written.
posted by Dr-Baa at 7:23 PM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by Dr-Baa at 7:23 PM on April 4, 2007 [3 favorites]
I just feel so depressed after watching that documentary, especially for the younger Phelps. Superficially, the younger Phelps seem so nice and normal, yet on one issue they're so batshitinsane. I'm still not totally convinced that they're a secret pro-gay rights group designed to unite the rest of the country against anti-gay bigots.
posted by gyc at 8:05 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by gyc at 8:05 PM on April 4, 2007
Video of the Westboro group getting the welcome they deserve.
posted by ColdChef at 8:34 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by ColdChef at 8:34 PM on April 4, 2007
Patriot Guard Riders in action at a soldier's funeral attended by Westboro protesters.
(Warning: military funeral pomp, bagpipes, and masses of strangers with flags standing in double ranks to shield the family from the sight of Phelps' crew; may provoke tears.)
posted by Smilla's Sense of Snark at 9:22 PM on April 4, 2007
(Warning: military funeral pomp, bagpipes, and masses of strangers with flags standing in double ranks to shield the family from the sight of Phelps' crew; may provoke tears.)
posted by Smilla's Sense of Snark at 9:22 PM on April 4, 2007
In Part 4, they protest a hardware store that sells Swedish vacuum cleaners for reasons I'm not sure I understand.
Just the fact that they have focused their hate of Sweden (which is, indeed, linked to its lenient stance on gays) on one of the Swedish royal family and insists on sending abusive faxes to her, should tell you a little about their "sanity".
The Princess Madeleine seems to have drawn their ire because... well, I guess it was that dress from the 2002 Nobel ceremony, she's pretty much harmless otherwise.
posted by gemmy at 9:45 PM on April 4, 2007
Just the fact that they have focused their hate of Sweden (which is, indeed, linked to its lenient stance on gays) on one of the Swedish royal family and insists on sending abusive faxes to her, should tell you a little about their "sanity".
The Princess Madeleine seems to have drawn their ire because... well, I guess it was that dress from the 2002 Nobel ceremony, she's pretty much harmless otherwise.
posted by gemmy at 9:45 PM on April 4, 2007
bitter-girl.com: I'm Norwegian, and my grandmother had one of those. I never knew! About any of the many issues and questions this raises about my grandmother! Um, grandfather? Or...
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:47 PM on April 4, 2007
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:47 PM on April 4, 2007
Is there a superlative to batshit insanity?
I nominate "catshitinsane" as the superlative. Conveniently, we already have a tag...
posted by sparkletone at 12:47 AM on April 5, 2007
I nominate "catshitinsane" as the superlative. Conveniently, we already have a tag...
posted by sparkletone at 12:47 AM on April 5, 2007
"The President of the United States gets his jollies masturbating horses". - Fred Phelps
posted by time to put your air goggles on! at 1:12 AM on April 5, 2007
posted by time to put your air goggles on! at 1:12 AM on April 5, 2007
The Phelps seem in their theological 'thinking' more like Jews / old testatment instead of new testatment / Christian?
Forgiveness and Love does not enter into their thinking ...
posted by homodigitalis at 1:23 AM on April 5, 2007
Forgiveness and Love does not enter into their thinking ...
posted by homodigitalis at 1:23 AM on April 5, 2007
Well, regarding the Phelps clan getting the welcome they deserve, I gotta say that's exactly wrong.
That kind of violence and hatred is what sustains them.
Now, I really, really want to go to a gay pride parade where the Phelps folks are letting their freak flags fly and tell Shirley how much I love her and thank her for a great laugh on a shitty day courtesy of "Not a chance, poopypants."
I'd even love to see if she'd let me take a picture with her.
MAybe there's a lesson in here for the way we, as individuals and as nations, treat people. If we respond to their idiotic behavior with knee-jerk rage and violence and insults, we provide them with the justification they need to reinforce their dumbassery. Why not treat them the way we would treat the mentally ill or children?
And no, we shouldn't let anyone do physical violence to us. But, perhaps a little bit of:
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never harm me", followed by a chaser of "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."
posted by mer2113 at 1:25 AM on April 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
That kind of violence and hatred is what sustains them.
Now, I really, really want to go to a gay pride parade where the Phelps folks are letting their freak flags fly and tell Shirley how much I love her and thank her for a great laugh on a shitty day courtesy of "Not a chance, poopypants."
I'd even love to see if she'd let me take a picture with her.
MAybe there's a lesson in here for the way we, as individuals and as nations, treat people. If we respond to their idiotic behavior with knee-jerk rage and violence and insults, we provide them with the justification they need to reinforce their dumbassery. Why not treat them the way we would treat the mentally ill or children?
And no, we shouldn't let anyone do physical violence to us. But, perhaps a little bit of:
Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never harm me", followed by a chaser of "I'm rubber, you're glue, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you."
posted by mer2113 at 1:25 AM on April 5, 2007 [1 favorite]
The President of the United States gets his jollies masturbating horses
Confirmed by Laura Bush.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:28 AM on April 5, 2007
Wow that expose was horrifying. I can't imagine, simply cannot fathom a life so consumed with hate. How horrible. I think I'm going to have nightmares forever after reading that.
posted by aacheson at 9:11 AM on April 5, 2007
posted by aacheson at 9:11 AM on April 5, 2007
Oh man, that's hilarious—great find, gnfti! "Why is this man touchin' my butt?"
posted by languagehat at 2:37 PM on April 5, 2007
posted by languagehat at 2:37 PM on April 5, 2007
"Excuse me. That happens to be my husband. You need to get away."
Giggle.
posted by ericb at 2:45 PM on April 5, 2007
Giggle.
posted by ericb at 2:45 PM on April 5, 2007
Jonmc you flaming fag you should be ashamed of yourself, for God sees you in your every action and knows about your troubles !
You may fool me and the other God' servants, but your mingling with young music fans betrays your secret infatutation for young boys , your attempt to corrupt them with the music of satan worshippers is an abominion you enjoy too much. Your attacking the good servant of God obeying to their duty , slandering them with accusation of seeking unnecessary attention, aren't you a little liar ? Thou shalt not judge, for the Lord knows that you whore a lot more attention than anybody else on this fag invested blue liberal website of yours..12673 comments and you seek no attention, yet you call others "whores" ?
You certainly write a lot for a servant of God that wishes to behave humbly, respectufully of the word of God. Soon your ilk of liberal liars will be exposed for the fag hypocrites they are. For in the perileous treacherous waters of hate the thin red line between free speech and "libel" is well know to God, the Almighty, who isn't afraid of your miserable sin infested words of hate, for the victory is of God, who knows the real toughts in your mind.
So prepare to meet your creator for God knows you are just vile scum and he will punish you and your friends, saving his loyal sons from your venom. Your sweet sinner talking, exposed for the evil it hides, will not convince anybody. Who will dare question the enlightement of the servants of God who are enlightened by God himself ? That would be crazy talking and I am God enlightened as I collect and dispel the mortiferous, environment infesting gases of your fag talking ! Your oil of snake isn't render as wisdom upon the word of God, but it should soon be transformed, catalyzed by God wisdom and become fuel for the righteous indignation of God who understands your double FAG talking.
The LORD should soon seek vengenance and punish your hate of the wisdom of God , who in his infinited wisdom loves the good loyal sons who rightfully fear his just gaze. Not a single word of hate, not a single attempt to silence the loyal servants of God will ever succeed for God servants don't proclaim to hate everybody, but they rightfully hate sinners and revolting liars and fork tongued fags, like you Jonmc, that with sweet words try to seduce the young boys and girls into disobeying the word of God.
Also, you republican fags should pay attention
For you sooner would prevent people from speaking the words of God at a funeral invested by fags , so losing your God given freedom for fear of language ! CUNT SHIT SMELL VAGINA !
posted by elpapacito at 5:34 AM on April 6, 2007
You may fool me and the other God' servants, but your mingling with young music fans betrays your secret infatutation for young boys , your attempt to corrupt them with the music of satan worshippers is an abominion you enjoy too much. Your attacking the good servant of God obeying to their duty , slandering them with accusation of seeking unnecessary attention, aren't you a little liar ? Thou shalt not judge, for the Lord knows that you whore a lot more attention than anybody else on this fag invested blue liberal website of yours..12673 comments and you seek no attention, yet you call others "whores" ?
You certainly write a lot for a servant of God that wishes to behave humbly, respectufully of the word of God. Soon your ilk of liberal liars will be exposed for the fag hypocrites they are. For in the perileous treacherous waters of hate the thin red line between free speech and "libel" is well know to God, the Almighty, who isn't afraid of your miserable sin infested words of hate, for the victory is of God, who knows the real toughts in your mind.
So prepare to meet your creator for God knows you are just vile scum and he will punish you and your friends, saving his loyal sons from your venom. Your sweet sinner talking, exposed for the evil it hides, will not convince anybody. Who will dare question the enlightement of the servants of God who are enlightened by God himself ? That would be crazy talking and I am God enlightened as I collect and dispel the mortiferous, environment infesting gases of your fag talking ! Your oil of snake isn't render as wisdom upon the word of God, but it should soon be transformed, catalyzed by God wisdom and become fuel for the righteous indignation of God who understands your double FAG talking.
The LORD should soon seek vengenance and punish your hate of the wisdom of God , who in his infinited wisdom loves the good loyal sons who rightfully fear his just gaze. Not a single word of hate, not a single attempt to silence the loyal servants of God will ever succeed for God servants don't proclaim to hate everybody, but they rightfully hate sinners and revolting liars and fork tongued fags, like you Jonmc, that with sweet words try to seduce the young boys and girls into disobeying the word of God.
Also, you republican fags should pay attention
We turn up to the funeral if we have been invited by the family," Kurt Mayer of the motorcycle group Patriot Guard Riders, told BBC World Service radio recently. "We block the view of vulgar and offensive signs."For you fags would sooner silence the word of God that you find unpleasant then letting others enjoy their God given freedom, as you are afraid of people of becoming evil because of words they don't understand, they just follow their rightful hate of fags, for fags are fags and God hates fags.
Mr Mayer acknowledged that one of the great ironies is that these are soldiers who have died protecting freedoms, such as the freedom of speech, yet he and his Harley Davidson-driving comrades form human shields between the mourners and the protesters to block the signs and insults.
"You do have the right to say pretty much what you want to in America - no matter how vulgar and offensive it is," Mr Mayer told the BBC.
For you sooner would prevent people from speaking the words of God at a funeral invested by fags , so losing your God given freedom for fear of language ! CUNT SHIT SMELL VAGINA !
posted by elpapacito at 5:34 AM on April 6, 2007
lastobelus said
young fag-hating women who are, um, kind of hot in a weirdly disturbing way?
It's the self-confidence. Self-confidence is always attractive. Scary, huh?
posted by krilli at 7:32 AM on April 6, 2007
young fag-hating women who are, um, kind of hot in a weirdly disturbing way?
It's the self-confidence. Self-confidence is always attractive. Scary, huh?
posted by krilli at 7:32 AM on April 6, 2007
Forget about Gay Days at Disney, Phelps and his clan will likely go apoplectic over this: Disney gives gay couples 'Fairy Tale Weddings.'
posted by ericb at 9:38 AM on April 6, 2007
posted by ericb at 9:38 AM on April 6, 2007
They now have their own music video: God Hates the World.
posted by ericb at 7:13 AM on April 21, 2007
posted by ericb at 7:13 AM on April 21, 2007
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Also, at least they are honest about their feelings. Christians in America tend to be very PC. If something is immoral, or a sin, then what is the price of sin? Where do unrepentant sinners go? The Phelps family keeps it real.
posted by Gnostic Novelist at 3:39 AM on April 4, 2007