Join 3,556 readers in helping fund MetaFilter (Hide)

Tags:

The burrito tunnel.
April 7, 2007 11:28 AM   Subscribe

"As the 30th anniversary of the Alameda-Weehawken burrito tunnel approaches, it’s worth taking a look at the remarkable sequence of events that takes place between the time we click 'deliver' on the burrito.nyc.us.gov website and the moment that our hot El Farolito burrito arrives in the lunchroom with its satisfying pneumatic hiss."
posted by danb (72 comments total) 7 users marked this as a favorite

 
um, yeah.....ok......I thought the jokes on Stargate SG1 were labored, but apparently there are worse jokes.
posted by metasonix at 11:40 AM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Someone will make a joke about anal sex south of the border.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:43 AM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mission-style burritos have rice, therefore they are not burritos.

Your favorite food sucks.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:47 AM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


If you raise my hopes on the subject of a burrito tube, then dash them with a hoax article, I cannot be held responsible for the terrible wrath I will visit upon you.
posted by Aquaman at 11:47 AM on April 7, 2007


mr_crash_davis, I've never heard of this. Please elaborate.
posted by Aquaman at 11:48 AM on April 7, 2007


Why did they fail to mention the bagel accelerator?
posted by chairface at 11:49 AM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


So, is this a group of New Yorkers acknowledging the superiority of the MIssion-style burrito (as well they should), or just another group of San Franciscans asserting it?
posted by gurple at 11:52 AM on April 7, 2007


I believe I am obligated to remark:

"It's a series of tubes"!
posted by Tube at 11:58 AM on April 7, 2007


They use bagels as ballast when they send the cannisters back.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 12:00 PM on April 7, 2007 [3 favorites]


I gotta go with Aquaman on the whole wrath thing.
posted by Cyrano at 12:00 PM on April 7, 2007


Aquaman, mission-style burritos are a Bay-area regional aberration, much like Cincinnati chili (although not quite as extreme an aberration, admittedly). As far as I am concerned, rice belongs beside a burrito (which is stuffed with meat and/or beans), not in it.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2007


"...burritos have rice..."

Correct, sir!

"...therefore they are not burritos."

I'm so sorry, sir, you lose at burrito eating.
posted by majick at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2007 [3 favorites]


What?
posted by Flunkie at 12:02 PM on April 7, 2007


[this is fantastic.]
posted by teferi at 12:03 PM on April 7, 2007 [3 favorites]


In the words of Was (Not Was), "I laughed, anyway."
posted by klangklangston at 12:08 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


I thought it was great.
posted by empath at 12:15 PM on April 7, 2007


Anyone who doesn't secretly wish this were true has a heart two sizes too small.
posted by sonofslim at 12:16 PM on April 7, 2007 [2 favorites]


Secretly nothing. If I could have a Benny's Cantina beef chimichanga chunnelled in a transport medium of green chili from Denver to DC...

fzzzt

The thought just made my mind blank with desire.

Why is East Coast Mexican food all so bland and overcooked?

Must. Not. Go to Orbitz...
posted by abulafa at 12:27 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Why is East Coast Mexican food all so bland and overcooked?

a) Because, with rare exceptions, East Coast food sucks.
b) Because it's not really Mexican, but Puerto Rican, Ecuadorian, Dominican, Cuban, etc...
posted by frogan at 12:29 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


...with its satisfying pneumatic hiss

Yeah. Burritos do that to me, too. All fart and parcel of the experience.
posted by hal9k at 12:38 PM on April 7, 2007 [2 favorites]


what in the flying fucking hell is East Coast Food?
posted by docpops at 12:56 PM on April 7, 2007


what in the flying fucking hell is East Coast Food?

Food popular in the East Coast, dork. ;-)

Here's a couple of images for you, and you tell me if you have the same reaction.

Connecticut cuisine
Upstate New York style
Delaware flavor


Sounds ... yummy? No. Tasty? Unh-huh. Bland, unrecognizable and tasteless. Yes! East Coast and food is like "jumbo shrimp" ... two things that don't go together.

On the other hand...

California cuisine
Pacific Northwest style
Tex-Mex flavor


These are evocative of specific styles, flavors and ingredients, borne out of real experiences. The others ... not so much.

That being said ... there are plenty of exceptions. But as a general rule ... would you rather have a steak in Buffalo or Kansas City? A hot dog in New York or Chicago? I rest my case.
posted by frogan at 1:12 PM on April 7, 2007


Even as a burritivous left coaster (North Bay even), I'm going to have to tentatively agree with mr_crash_davis. While I like a good Mission style burrito, there's something about the riceless and beanless Baja style that just appeals so much more. Then again, I also prefer my fish tacos Baja style. Who wants grilled fish when you can have it FRIED.

p.s. Also, try a Mission burrito sans rice, but with beans. Much less likely to make you feel like a stuffed animal afterwards, and, perhaps, more tasty. Although it does decrease overall burrito structural integrity. Serious tortillas only. And not for the novice burritovore.
posted by redbeard at 1:16 PM on April 7, 2007


I hear you frogan - but the East Coast wins in the ethnic diversity category. I would bet there are more world class Korean, Indian, Thai, and Italian restaurants in any strip mall in northern Virginia than in any hundred square mile exurb on the west coast outside excepting LA, Seattle, or SFO.
posted by docpops at 1:19 PM on April 7, 2007


(though Weehawken residents still recall the great blackout of 2002, when computers running the braking coils shut down and for four hours burritos traced graceful arcs into the East River, glowing like faint red sparks in the night)

Come on, how can you not like this?
posted by suckerpunch at 1:22 PM on April 7, 2007


I don't know that I'd say all East Coast food sucks, but I sure remember how much I found myself hungering for decent Mexican food while I lived in Boston. No one there knows what it's supposed to taste like. In the whole time I lived there I only found one decent Mexican restaurant, a greasy spoon in Waltham, and it closed a few months after I found it. Sob.

They don't have decent sourdough bread there, either, and you cannot get hash browns with your breakfast; everyone wants to serve you something they call "home fries", which are awful.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 1:37 PM on April 7, 2007


Ah home fries. The #1 purveyor of raw rosemary heartburn in the mid-Atlantic region. Why cook potato chunks when you can blacken the outside and leave the interior bland and raw?

I'm really focusing on the East Coast Mexican (and yeah, I know at least most places billed as 'Mexican' in my hood are Salvadoran, which seems intent on leathering any meat it encounters). The seafood can be outstanding, great Thai and Chinese (both americanized and traditional) and awesome Vietnamese. I feel I must go further north for truly awesome Italian but there are some stand-outs.

When the most Mexican (to my Colorado tastes) burrito I can find comes from a schlocky Dupont Circle tourist haven, however....

Yes please to the Interburritronwebs. Then I could also funnel awesome Pho to the midwest in exchange for their rich barbeque reserves.
posted by abulafa at 1:45 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Oh, forget Salvadoran. We've got Chinamexican!

Chinese-owned takeout restaurants whose yellowed-out backlit menu panels offer either "Mexican" or a combination of "Chinese" and "Mexican" food. Often you can get a poorly wrapped burrito (with soy-marinated carne asada) and General Tso's in the same restaurant, or a free Wonton soup with your chimichangas (which contain baby corn and steamed broccoli).

I promise you, as delicious as this sounds, it's not.

On the plus side, we often get mysterious containers of brown liquid marked "FREE", though I don't have the fortitude to find out what it is.

In Bayonne, NJ where I live now, there are four Mexican restaurants, and ALL of them are Chinamexican.
posted by jake at 2:42 PM on April 7, 2007


Ah, El Farolito, 24th and Mission. Carne asada super burrito with everything, $5.49: nothing compares. I can eat half for dinner, leave the foil-wrapped other half in my backpack overnight, and have the rest for breakfast the next morning. Don't reheat it, certainly don't refrigerate it. It keeps like pemmican.

The cooks all all men. I stand and watch their muscly Mexican forearms working down the line. There used to be a blue-eyed alemania/mexican counter guy there named Cesar with whom I was in love. He had three daughters and a wife in DF, but we flirted nonetheless.

El Farolito has its own private security.

I lived in New York in 1990/91---the only Mexican place I remember was El Taco Loco--I think it was on Second Ave. near W. 9th?

I'd consider moving back to New York if the burrito tunnel were functioning, and if Cesar were there.
posted by eegphalanges at 3:02 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Well, they're right - Margaux is perfect with a Papalote slab.
posted by ikkyu2 at 3:09 PM on April 7, 2007


The article didn't mention the reciprocating Philly Cheese Steak Tube that supplies the Bay Area.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:33 PM on April 7, 2007


Wait till the guys at the High-Energy Cheese Lab see this.
posted by SaintCynr at 4:03 PM on April 7, 2007


"I sure remember how much I found myself hungering for decent Mexican food while I lived in Boston"

I'm still kicking around the idea of buying an old church out there and opening a Southwestern-style Mexican food restaurant.

I would call it "Iglesia del Taco".
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:04 PM on April 7, 2007 [3 favorites]


WTF is Pacific Northwest style? Have I been ingesting it by accident? yours, confused, Seattle
posted by Artw at 4:10 PM on April 7, 2007


Artw: You're soaking in it. Perhaps it's goeyducks or whatever you call those disturbing things.
posted by chairface at 4:58 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


WTF is Pacific Northwest style?

Pacific Northwest cuisine emphasizes seafood, especially salmon, shellfish and Alaskan fishes; and ingredients native to the area; with Asian and Native American influences. Famous chefs include Tom Douglas, Tamara Murphy, and Jerry Traunfeld.
posted by frogan at 5:06 PM on April 7, 2007


So, basically, Salmon.
posted by Artw at 5:18 PM on April 7, 2007


Maciej is one of the great treasures of this here series of tubes, sez I.
posted by mwhybark at 5:18 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


also, mmm, salmon.
posted by mwhybark at 5:20 PM on April 7, 2007


Maciej is one of the great treasures of this here series of tubes, sez I.

Oh, it's by him?

::finally rushes off to read the link::
posted by moss at 5:38 PM on April 7, 2007


WE MUST BUILD THIS FOR SCIENCE

AND BURRITOS
posted by loquacious at 5:46 PM on April 7, 2007


Artw: You're soaking in it. Perhaps it's goeyducks or whatever you call those disturbing things.

We call them "giant edible penises." HTH. HAND.
posted by dw at 5:48 PM on April 7, 2007


Aquaman, mission-style burritos are a Bay-area regional aberration, much like Cincinnati chili (although not quite as extreme an aberration, admittedly).

Honestly, Mission burritos are closer to what you call "burritos" than Cincy chili is to chili. Or, for that matter, food.

As far as I am concerned, rice belongs beside a burrito (which is stuffed with meat and/or beans), not in it.

Every time I go to Oklahoma or Texas and have a burrito, I'm given the option of having rice on said burrito. This suggests that in an area crawling with Mexican migrant laborers and their taco trucks and taqueiras, rice is a perfectly acceptable thing to have in your burrito.

Besides, you usually eat the burrito out of hand, don't you?

WE MUST BUILD THIS FOR SCIENCE

AND BURRITOS


Screw that. I want an Alabama-Seattle BBQ tunnel. And barring that, I want a transcontinental vinegar-based BBQ sauce pipeline that runs to Seattle, and have that guarded by our brave troops to keep the terrorists from blowing it up.
posted by dw at 5:57 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


Awesome article.

As far as I am concerned, rice belongs beside a burrito (which is stuffed with meat and/or beans), not in it.

You can always ask for no rice.

I liked the part with the geologists and the road cuts; spot on.
posted by BrotherCaine at 6:14 PM on April 7, 2007


dw, we gots the BBQ heah. Although the majority appears to be Texas style.

The Iron Pig down in Georgetown does do a Carolina style vinegar / mustard thing, and they have a catfish deal on the menu at all times. There's the Pecos Pit down there too, and the OK Corral up on Greenwood, which has a pretty nice southern vibe, sweet ice tea, flourescents, etc. What's the distinctive 'Bama cookery that needs wranglin'?
posted by mwhybark at 6:25 PM on April 7, 2007


Abulafa - Good Vietnamese food on the East Coast? Where?

I've had inferior pho in NYC's chinatown, vague simulacra in Boston, and reasonable noodles in Providence (done by a Chinese family), but nothing compared to any decent pho shop in Oakland or San Francisco.

Are there hidden enclaves of beef noodle soup further south?
posted by grubby at 6:56 PM on April 7, 2007


The Iron Pig down in Georgetown does do a Carolina style vinegar / mustard thing, and they have a catfish deal on the menu at all times.

Haven't been there, but I'm a North of the Canaler. I'll check them out.

There's the Pecos Pit down there too, and the OK Corral up on Greenwood, which has a pretty nice southern vibe, sweet ice tea, flourescents, etc.

Pecos Pit isn't bad, but I don't like the everything-is-a-sandwich thing about them. To me, BBQ is a pile of pulled meat and sauce. They have a nice, spicy sauce, though.

OK Corral to me is more soul food than BBQ. Damn nice hush puppies.

And Dixie's/Porter's is god-awful. And people think it's good.

What's the distinctive 'Bama cookery that needs wranglin'?

Pulled pork, vinegar-based sauce (not ketchup), pink smoke ring, white bread, and maybe some sides (but only if the missus made them). And the guy running the BBQ looks like a Flannery O'Connor character, quoting the Bible and treating the smoking process like Moses himself brought the rub down from the Mount.

I'll sub in brisket if it's Oklahoma/Texas, but please no ketchup.
posted by dw at 7:39 PM on April 7, 2007


Are there hidden enclaves of beef noodle soup further south?

You'd think that Tulsa/OKC/Ft. Smith, recipient of thousands of Vietnamese refugees in the 70s and 80s, would have at least one good pho place between them, but they're all really, really terrible. And the one Vietnamese family that has done well went into Americanized-Chinese fast food. (Admittedly, before they came to town Tulsa's Americanized-Chinese food was sub-abysmal. But how I wish they'd put that energy into pho and Vietnamese sandwiches.)
posted by dw at 7:46 PM on April 7, 2007


As far as I am concerned, rice belongs beside a burrito (which is stuffed with meat and/or beans), not in it.

Are you saying you eat your burritos off a plate?

Now that's an aberration.
posted by oneirodynia at 7:58 PM on April 7, 2007


Can any of you out there in California get a decent slice of pizza? Didn't think so.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 7:59 PM on April 7, 2007


I always thought the best pizza in California was "Pizzeria Uno" (i.e. Chicago Style). But there aren't any of them up here in Oregon, alas.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 8:07 PM on April 7, 2007


Living in Weehawken is great. I'm so excited. And I thought I had an excuse for wanting to leave here before.
posted by djspicerack at 8:24 PM on April 7, 2007


Actually, there is tons of good pizza in California. Unfortunately, there is even more bad pizza.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:06 PM on April 7, 2007


best pizza in california - the great chicago fire at pizz'a chicago, in palo alto.
posted by sergeant sandwich at 9:17 PM on April 7, 2007


Can any of you out there in California get a decent slice of pizza? Didn't think so.

So?

Give me fresh off the boat salmon and a nice Vietnamese sandwich any day over that greasy New York style pizza and your diamond-hard bagels. Chicago pizza or Philly water ice, different story. But New York pizza and bagels are highly overrated.
posted by dw at 9:29 PM on April 7, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'll go along with that. Nearly all the local pizza I ate in Boston, the sauce was too sweet.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 9:34 PM on April 7, 2007


I always thought the best pizza in California was "Pizzeria Uno"

Aww, yeah.
posted by frogan at 11:33 PM on April 7, 2007


I'm pretty sure good east cost food has become generically american now, so its more actuate attack "east coast specialities". At which point, yes your obviously correct: your tastebuds are dead if you prefer "homefries" to "hashbrowns".

I doubt the reality of "California cuisine" since I've lived in San Jose but I've never eaten it. But I know that tex-mex is total garbage: To make tex-mex you take real mexican food and dump a glass of water on it. Who eats that crap?

So we're down four types of real & edible North American cuisine: generic American, Mexican, Cajun, and Sothern. Quebec and some islands may also produce quality stuff, but these are not as prevelent.

However, California does get props for it's overpriced wine, which you'd never really buy since better European stuff is cheaper. Likewise good beer comes out of the north mid west and the north east, but you'll still just buy European.

French food is just scary good. Here is a little experement: try tripe at a fance Chinese resteraunt, where it'll still be disgusting, and a French resteraunt, where it'll be very tasty.
posted by jeffburdges at 1:41 AM on April 8, 2007


I doubt the reality of "California cuisine" since I've lived in San Jose but I've never eaten it.

Ever had any avocado, especially on a sandwich? Guacamole? A fish taco? Pizza with chicken? There you go -- consider yourself cultured.
posted by frogan at 2:07 AM on April 8, 2007


But I know that tex-mex is total garbage: To make tex-mex you take real mexican food and dump a glass of water on it. Who eats that crap?

Enough people to demand that an Austin Tex-Mex place be saved from the wrecking ball.

So we're down four types of real & edible North American cuisine: generic American, Mexican, Cajun, and Sothern.

You're really giving California short shrift. Post-1970 it's all been about California cuisine. Read up on Alice Waters and Wolfgang Puck sometime.

However, California does get props for it's overpriced wine, which you'd never really buy since better European stuff is cheaper.

Where do you live? Oh, right. France. Here we have this thing called Costco, where you can buy a case of quality (90+) Washington merlot or Oregon pinot noir or California whatever for $10-20/bottle. The good French stuff is $15-30/bottle.

It helps to live on the West Coast, yeah, but still, the CA/WA/OR stuff is cheaper in the Midwest, too.
posted by dw at 7:48 AM on April 8, 2007


jake: reasonably familiar. (see also, and)
posted by avriette at 8:36 AM on April 8, 2007


artw: one of my favorite examples of this was at the Marriott Redmond Town Center.

Pacific Northwest Benedict
2 poached eggs served on english muffins, alongside local asparagus with Oregonzola cheese and Washington apples atop locally-caught salmon.

I rather looked forward to breakfast out there.

And then there are the local beers, like Snoqualmie and the Rogue brewery down at Issaquah. It's really hard to believe you can't see this (and I'm from San Diego by way of Virginia)!
posted by avriette at 8:40 AM on April 8, 2007


jeff, you've forgotten one crucial piece of north american cuisine (unless you meant CONUS): Hawaiian. I may just go dig up enough to make my first fpp with that stuff as I can't find any mentions on the site. You could probably also add the Puerto Rican/Jamaican stuff as well, as it's fairly prevalent in the northeast (empanadas, curried/jerk chicken, etc)
posted by avriette at 8:48 AM on April 8, 2007


I live near Boston but have yet to find a plate of baked beans.
Suggestions?
I mean it.
posted by Dizzy at 10:22 AM on April 8, 2007


Yum. Bay area burritos are good, but they got nothing on the Los Angeles and Southern California burritos. They are the best.

California is the best place anywhere... Good wines (read reviews on Ridge Monte Bello and how it stacks up against THE BEST euro wines), Great Mexican, good italian, Better Chinese, Vietnamese and Thai, best weather, hottest girls...

I mean, it doesnt get better than CA
posted by subaruwrx at 6:13 PM on April 8, 2007


Oh, and the beers.

Anderson Valley, Anchor Brewing, Bear republic, Sierra nevada, Stone, Moonlight, Lagunitas... and the list goes on...
posted by subaruwrx at 6:15 PM on April 8, 2007


Pff. Having a few salmon based dishes in your local up-market restraunts is NOT a regional cuisine.

See also: Throwing an avocado on top of things and calling them 'californian'.
posted by Artw at 2:36 PM on April 9, 2007


Pff. Having a few salmon based dishes in your local up-market restraunts is NOT a regional cuisine.

You're missing the point. Food originates from somewhere, and is mastered there, before it "goes mainstream," so to speak. That's what is meant by a regional cuisine.

I guess you wouldn't say any pasta is Italian, either, now that there's such a thing as Beefaroni...?

Go back to the 1930s and you wouldn't find avocado on sandwiches in New York (although you would find some excellent Jewish delis, but that's a European influence). Go back to 1950s Pennsylvania and salmon was something you only found in a can.
posted by frogan at 3:14 PM on April 9, 2007


Avriette, if you do a Hawaiian post, don't forget to mention Ono's hawaiian cuisine. Gotta love lomi salmon (when it is fresh) and kalua pork. However, I found the fruit and vegetable selection to be deplorable in Hawaii.
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:44 AM on April 10, 2007


avriette, I intentinally didn't lauch into all the islands, but yes they are quite interesting and influential, obviously.

frogan, We get Avocado and Guacamole from the Aztecs, i.e. central america, not California. I've no idea about Salmon but I always assumed it was Alaskan.

I suppose your claiming that California chefs "reintroduced" the U.S. to these ingredients, but I have some doubts about this claim, especially since avacado is soo linked with Mexican food in the east.

dw, I always found French wines to be better for the price when I lived on the east coast. But I was never a costco shopper (and I was drinking cheaper stuff then). I can read up a bit more on california food, however.

fyi, A 16 euro bottel of savagnin from Jura can beat any wine produced in the U.S. (but they seem to sell for like $30 to $40 in the U.S.)
posted by jeffburdges at 3:14 PM on April 10, 2007


Wikipedia : The term California Cuisine is a somewhat whimsical monicker referring to a relatively recent invention and should not be confused with the traditional foods of California.

Seems "California Cuisine" reduces to exactly two events :
1) Alice Waters imprting the use of local stuff from France.
2) Wolfgang Puck becomming one of the first celebrity chefs by introducing more asian components.

But infact Puck also learned his tricks in France. And he worked first in New York. So, like wikipedia say, it's not so very Californian really.

Now I understand why New Yorkers never ever say "California cuisine" but instead say "fusion" and claim its a fusion of "asian" and "french" cooking, when neither is visible. It'd never occured to me that "French" might simply mean "fresh ingredients".

So the proper name for this would really be "fusion cuisine" or "globalized cuisine".

Otoh one more Californian influence on the U.S. is the move towards heathier foods.
posted by jeffburdges at 4:56 AM on April 11, 2007


1) Alice Waters imprting the use of local stuff from France.

That way undersells her importance. Waters went to France and brought back the idea that maybe food should be made with fresh, local ingredients. People would show up at the doorstep of Chez Panisse with foraged greens, basil from their garden, mushrooms driven down from Oregon. Niman Ranch found a market there. Chez Panisse spun off a plethora of coke-addled chefs that opened places in San Francisco and LA and eventually New York.

Say what you will about Waters' insane pretentiousness about food, but she altered the American culinary landscape.

2) Wolfgang Puck becomming one of the first celebrity chefs by introducing more asian components.

But infact Puck also learned his tricks in France. And he worked first in New York. So, like wikipedia say, it's not so very Californian really.


OK, if that's your argument, then let me remind you that the basics of what you call French food is actually Italian food imported from the De Medicis via cooks hired at Versailles.

Spago couldn't be more California. It couldn't originate anywhere but in LA. And it's not just "fusion," it's some of the other ideas mentioned -- chicken and BBQ sauce on a pizza, for instance. And Spago spread around the world very rapidly, taking the cuisine with it. During the 80s there were jokes about California cuisine being bite-sized entrees on beds of sprouts priced at $50 a plate. That was the ultimate end of Spago and Chinois (though it wasn't their fault, they were serving normal portions).

And as for the avocado, sure it's an import, but so are tomatoes into France and Italy.

There are only a handful of foods that are wholly American inventions, anyway. Fry bread. Chili. The buffalo wing.

dw, I always found French wines to be better for the price when I lived on the east coast. But I was never a costco shopper (and I was drinking cheaper stuff then).

Well, France is closer (in a sense), and it's only been in the last 10 years that the sheer amount of CA/WA/OR wine has hit a point where it's cheap on the East Coast, too. I struggle trying to find Washington wine whenever I'm in Oklahoma, but when I do it's priced competitively with French and Italian and Spanish wines.

You should check out Oregon pinot noir and Washington shiraz/syrah and merlot. I think you'll find they're quite good and affordable, even if you're surrounded by 2 Euro subsidized wine there in France. France is great, but the rest of the world is hard at work catching up.
posted by dw at 3:00 PM on April 11, 2007


« Older Bisphenol A:...  |  Have you ever stopped to lis... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments