Comments on: Shakespeare's Birthday and his Masterpiece, Hamlet

Shakespeare's Birthday and his Masterpiece, Hamlet

dios — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:07:41 -0800

To honor the Greatest's birthday, one could consider his greatest work by reading this excellent post by matteo which touches upon the religious issues facing our confused Protestant hero, the student at Wittenberg, who doubts orthodoxy, cannot decide if he is a scourge or minister, but ultimately accedes to a belief in divine Providence. Or, if you would rather dive into an ~~intriguing~~ ~~amusing~~ ~~royally f'ed up~~ "unique" analysis of the play, check out this extensive theory (?) [cache] of Hamlet which corrects our accepted and flawed interpretation by explaining that a literal reading of the play tells us, among other things, that King Hamlet was never killed; that Horatio--our narrator--is the King's son and prince Hamlet's half brother; that the guy we incorrectly think of as Claudius is in fact King Hamlet; and that prince Hamlet's father is Fortinbras. Oops. Boy do we have egg on our faces.

By: tadellin

tadellin — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:09:59 -0800

wow. Don't take this the wrong way, but at 5pm on a Monday, I almost fell asleep reading this post.

By: dios

dios — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:13:19 -0800

I'm sorry. My goal was to frame this in a way to separate the wheat from the chaff and make sure only people interested in this would participate. I guess I failed.

By: papakwanz

papakwanz — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:26:53 -0800

Wow. That last link is fucking insanely stupid.

By: papakwanz

papakwanz — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:27:32 -0800

The content of the article, I mean.

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:27:40 -0800

I'm interested, especially so in Hamlet. But I must say I'm a bit confused as to what the main subject of the post is here? A few links to the play, a link to a previous metafilter post and a link to one of the most unhinged of the many wacky theories out there about what the play is about? Personally, I like the reading that the play is a clash of the geocentric and heliocentric views of the Universe. I was going to work up a post on it - Rosencrantz and Guildenstern you know are Tycho Brahe's family - and the play is riddled with astronomical references - enough to impinge on questions of authorship. But I never got around to it....

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:32:21 -0800

Here's my boiled-down, essential Hamlet.

By: bardic

bardic — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:35:38 -0800

cf. also Ulysses, Chapter 9. I thought this was going to be a post about Muhammed Ali myself.

By: Jody Tresidder

Jody Tresidder — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:42:45 -0800

"I thought this was going to be a post about Muhammed Ali myself." posted by bardic And everyone else got the joke quicker than I did - 'cos, after all, your name is bardic - right?

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:44:31 -0800

Why is matteo a tag?

By: pax digita

pax digita — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:51:43 -0800

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:54:07 -0800

TIMECUBE KILLED HAMLET

By: Postroad

Postroad — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 14:59:05 -0800

In passing, Shakespeare's pal and fellow wrtier Kit Marlowe has his Doctor Faustus a prof at Wittenberg. Perhaps Hamlet his student? Historical stuff like Greenblatt's is now fashionable and though of some interest, there is in fact a genre, or type of play, that the Elizabethans would have fully been aware of: the revenge tragedy, with classical precedent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenge_play

By: psmealey

psmealey — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:02:15 -0800

Querying the matteo tag only yields this post. Somehow, I thought there would be more.

By: Firas

Firas — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:02:30 -0800

macbeth ftw

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:03:07 -0800

Querying the matteo tag only yields this post. Somehow, I thought there would be more. Yeah, that's odd, huh.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:04:50 -0800

macbeth fears trees walking.

By: Firas

Firas — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:05:40 -0800

So? That's coz he didn't piss himself while spritey hags warned him about it. Don't even get me started on that wimp Hamlet.

By: banished

banished — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:08:56 -0800

I second being disappointed that the post wasn't about Ali.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:17:40 -0800

macbeth faced three witches.

By: russilwvong

russilwvong — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:18:35 -0800

dios: To honor the Greatest's birthday-- Or one could link to Michael S. Schiffer's lost quarto of Hamlet. Or Scotland, PA. More seriously, a couple recent NYRB articles: Anne Barton, 'Words, Words, Words.' Stephen Greenblatt, Shakespeare and the Uses of Power. The complete works of Shakespeare. (The MIT site is incomplete.)

By: Firas

Firas — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:27:37 -0800

oh! i see what you did there wolfdog. no, by ftw i just meant to say i think macbeth (and romeo and juliet and julius caesar) kick hamet's ass. you may now resume your regularly scheduled programming.

By: Challahtronix

Challahtronix — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:33:28 -0800

The complete works of Muhammad Ali.

By: dios

dios — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:35:08 -0800

I'd forgotten that Hamlet was fictitiously a student at Wittenberg. But seeing "Wittenberg" in the context of Shakespeare, who wrote many historical plays, makes me wonder how he could've mined Luther and the Protestant Reformation, German Department, for material. posted by pax digita at 4:51 PM on April 23 Well, it is certainly important that Hamlet went there. Shakespeare never mentions any school in his writings except in Hamlet. And then he makes the point four times. He's practically beating us over the head with it. The school would have been known to those at the time. As far as how he mined Luther and the Protestant Reformation, I think the links show it. It is also noteworthy that Marlowe's Dr. Faustus taught there as he was the man who mastered all knowledge. In the Catholic Middle Ages, one could know what God wanted because the intermediaries explained God's will. So one could sufficiently engage in moral action with knowledge of the consequences. That all changed in the Protestant Reformation, and Shakespeare is making it clear that we should see Hamlet coming from that. There is the characteristic Protestant doubt in Hamlet there is no one telling him how to act. He works through these ideas that he has learned in his schooling and tries to reconcile them in his head: the issue of the ghost with no Purgatory; the position of man in the world; the use of scourges and ministers; revenge; providential control and free will; etc. Without the guidance of the Church instructing individuals, Hamlet has to resolve these issues with the learning he has acquired at Wittenberg. This interpretation helps resolve some issues in the play, but it is not a necessary interpretation, and that is one the reason that it is such a rich and timeless play. Now the Barkov interpretation in the last link... if he is right then everything I just said is pointless because his understanding of the text is so... novel.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:42:26 -0800

I thought you meant country matters.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:43:10 -0800

To honor the Greatest's birthday It's Mohammed Ali's birthday, and what better way to celebrate it than by a discussion of his poetry.

By: nola

nola — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 15:49:24 -0800

Wonderful post dios.

By: Rumple

Rumple — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:12:45 -0800

Great post, thanks. Will read it all later. Here are some nice Hamlet resources put together across campus from me, part of the Internet Shakespeare Editions.

By: saladin

saladin — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:17:20 -0800

Yeah, nthed, this was a great post, thanks dios. You've made a bored English major very happy.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:21:23 -0800

Apropos of nothing, my all-time fave Shakes line is from his "Titus"-- "We are but shrubs; no cedars we." I forgot his birthday and I am an ungrateful swain; he's paid my salary for many many years.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:43:29 -0800

What rubbish. Hamlet was bewitched, because only witchcraft can make anyone mad, unless, of course, one sees the beings that lurk in the forest.

By: Grod

Grod — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:53:58 -0800

That last link is parody, right?

By: voltairemodern

voltairemodern — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:07:53 -0800

Great post dios.

By: EarBucket

EarBucket — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:08:50 -0800

One of the most significant aspects of Hamlet's career in Wittenberg is the fact that it's a "modern" (for the time), Protestant institution. Hamlet would have been taught that there are no ghosts, for a dead soul is either safely in Heaven, (where it would have no desire to leave) or in Hell (where it would have no power to). Protestants held that any apparition must be the Devil in disguise. Thus, when his father's ghost--his very Catholic ghost--shows up, Hamlet's naturally apprehensive. Once this is understood, the bulk of Hamlet's delay in seeking revenge becomes much clearer. Modern audiences, used to the play and not acquainted with the theological arguments of four centuries ago, tend to assume it's really his dad from the start, and Hamlet just ends up looking like a ditherer. (There's also loads of deeply twisted psychological stuff circling around Shakespeare himself in this play. He had a son named Hamnet who died very young, and cast himself as the Ghost in the first production--it's just loaded with subtext.)

By: nickyskye

nickyskye — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:29:30 -0800

Shakespeare's writing made my life juicier, fuller, richer. How fortunate I've been to have read some of his plays and poetry. eShakespeare. Happy 443rd Birthday dear William. Thank you for your brilliant articulation. Love your post dios. Hadn't read matteo's excellent post either, a treat to bring that info here. Lots to learn.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:35:35 -0800

Relevant recent AskMe.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 17:50:42 -0800

I'm never liked Hamlet as a character because I'm from the Inigo Montoya School of Revenge. "You killed my father. Prepare to die." But still... "Green Eggs and Hamlet" by kirkaracha ~1983

Ophelia, Ophelia My heart wants to steal ya But my head says act dumb Act comfortably numb^* You see, my bad uncle (Who's really a skunkle) Has married my mother Though he is her brother My dad's out of here Hot lead in his ear So I sit and brood I'm in a bad mood

^* That line seemed really clever in high school.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 19:14:09 -0800

Romeo and Juliet both as young boys on the mideval stage. Discuss.

By: pax digita

pax digita — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:36:02 -0800

dios...dang, Shakespeare just keeps on revealing new levels to me! Thanks for responding so positively. I need to read the links and then maybe watch the Olivier performance again -- it's been decades.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Mon, 23 Apr 2007 20:56:19 -0800

Can't go wrong with Larry O's "Hamlet" or "Henry V", but please avoid his "Rick III"---boooorrriiinnnngggg condescending fakery. Rent Ian McKellen's version and be truly dazzled.

By: CCBC

CCBC — Tue, 24 Apr 2007 02:02:15 -0800

Why does no one mention Orestes when they attempt to decipher Hamlet? That is surely one model. And the Norse tradition provides another. The dilemma posed in the Finnsburgh fragment and that in the Oresteia are very much like the one faced by Hamlet: which law to serve, that from within (custom and honor) or that from without (the official code). Not to take anything away from the Master. Happy Birthday Bloody Bill!