Exploding Storm Drain
April 27, 2007 10:54 AM   Subscribe

Exploding Storm Drain - It may be a single video link, but the scale blew me away.
posted by lemonfridge (82 comments total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
I expected Bruce Willis to come blasting out at any second.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 11:03 AM on April 27, 2007


You mean you didn't see him running away towards the end?
posted by IronLizard at 11:04 AM on April 27, 2007


Whoa!
posted by Mister_A at 11:05 AM on April 27, 2007


What causes this? Besides a whole lot of water.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 11:07 AM on April 27, 2007


Pretty impressive.
posted by jouke at 11:08 AM on April 27, 2007


Why were they filming this? Or is everything captured on video these days?
posted by justkevin at 11:09 AM on April 27, 2007


Huge amounts of water in the upstream side cascading into a funnel like drain and exerting 10's of tons of pressure. A broken dike or levy would do it nicely.
posted by IronLizard at 11:09 AM on April 27, 2007


Looks like a regular traffic cam, Kevin. My town is covered in them and they broadcast on a local channel (they rotate the view through cameras all over the city).
posted by IronLizard at 11:11 AM on April 27, 2007


I just asked one of the "old masters" here at the plumbing company, and apparently, once a storm drain fills up, it builds head pressure and finds the path of least resistance. In this case, that manhole cover held for a minute, then went bye-bye.
posted by notsnot at 11:11 AM on April 27, 2007


this guy at accuweather did some research on the exploding sewer
posted by elpapacito at 11:12 AM on April 27, 2007


When encountering such a phenomenon while driving a vehicle, is the proper course of action really to drive right the fuck through it?
posted by psmealey at 11:12 AM on April 27, 2007


IE7 users may need to refresh several times in order to view video (or switch to Firefox)

Or not bother.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:15 AM on April 27, 2007


Poor guy with the crushed SUV - nobody even got out of their car to see if the driver was OK?
posted by anthill at 11:17 AM on April 27, 2007


Wow. That's pretty wet all right.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:18 AM on April 27, 2007


It looks like it happened during a thunder storm. There are some lightning flashes during it. You can get truly awesome amounts of rain falling in a short time, leading to flash floods. If such a flood ended up in a storm sewer, it's entirely possible it could manifest as a geyser like that.
posted by Steven C. Den Beste at 11:20 AM on April 27, 2007


That's fraking crazy!
posted by Skygazer at 11:21 AM on April 27, 2007


i was wondering if it was minneapolis as i watched. elpacito's link says the video from '04 was in minneapolis.
i don't remember the exact year, though '99 sounds close. a storm went thru the area and manholes were turning into geysers all over the place. i didn't see one that big, but down the street from my friends house the intersection had a geyser at least 20 ft. high. friends in other areas of town had cars float by them down streets and mud up to the rear view mirror's. it all happened really, really fast and gone just as quick.
posted by andywolf at 11:34 AM on April 27, 2007


Oh man, how much would it have sucked to have been the person walking towards the disabled car the second time it erupted?

I mean, massive deluge of water when in an enclosed vehicle? Scary as hell. Massive deluge of water when you are out in the open and unprotected? The stuff of nightmares.
posted by quin at 11:35 AM on April 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


When encountering such a phenomenon while driving a vehicle, is the proper course of action really to drive right the fuck through it?

I believe the gentleman in the broken down SUV would say that no, no it is not.
posted by shmegegge at 11:48 AM on April 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


On New YEars day 2003, a sewer in my neighborhood in Brooklyn actually exploded sending a very heavy steel manhole cover in the middle of the street 20 feet into the air with lots of sparks and fire and the whole bit. If a car had been driving over that...

Seems methane gas sometimes collects in sewers from organic rubbish (there's a fish store near by that hoses fish guts down the storm drain) and so one wayward spark and KA-BOOM! I was about a half block away (but had just walked over the cover) and pretty nearly jumped out of my skin. All the neighbors came out bug eyed and fearing that there'd been another terrorist attack . The Fire dept came and took care of it. They didn't seem very impressed.

Anyhow for the rest of 2003, I was able to tell people that the year had started off with a bang.
posted by Skygazer at 11:52 AM on April 27, 2007


When encountering such a phenomenon while driving a vehicle, is the proper course of action really to drive right the fuck through it?

I wondered the same thing. I'm surprised there wasn't a major pileup.
posted by Zinger at 11:56 AM on April 27, 2007


Awesome vid.

Talking with a bunch of Con Ed workers in NYC, they said that on any given day in the 5 NYC boroughs, 40 200lb, cast iron, mostly made in India, manhole covers pop. Some, they said, are found on the rooftops of neighboring buildings and typically fly up to 60 feet. The reason, they said, was that the salt corrodes the sheathing on the cables under the street, which builds up a gas and then when the wires in the cable contact, the spark causes an explosion...or several, sometimes lifting/exploding up half a dozen manhole covers on a single street. They said they *never* walk on a manhole cover. These days I've noticed that the manhole covers have grid-like openings, which, I presume, let the gas out without exploding the cover.
posted by nickyskye at 11:57 AM on April 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


he reason, they said, was that the salt corrodes the sheathing on the cables under the street, which builds up a gas

Mmmmm, hydrogen. A huge draino bomb.
posted by IronLizard at 12:01 PM on April 27, 2007


As for driving right through it, I'd suspect that when you're at 70+ mph you don't have a whole lot of choice. It takes a long time to come from that speed to a complete stop, especially on wet roads.
posted by sotonohito at 12:05 PM on April 27, 2007


Every time you make a one-link video FPP, God kills a kitten.
posted by flotson at 12:06 PM on April 27, 2007


Every time you make a one-link video FPP, God kills a kitten.

Is there a video of this?
posted by justkevin at 12:15 PM on April 27, 2007 [2 favorites]


Every time you make a one-link video FPP, God kills a kitten.

Go back to... um. Where ever you come from, I dunno.
posted by Pope Guilty at 12:26 PM on April 27, 2007


Dear flotson,
On the chance that you're serious:
No.

Single Link Posts are fine, and in fact preferred to stuffing your post's crotch with useless filler.

Video changes nothing about the above declarative.

Please stop spreading misinformation.
posted by Richard Daly at 12:26 PM on April 27, 2007


No sweat, flotson, there's lots more kittens where that one came from.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:27 PM on April 27, 2007


Talking with a bunch of Con Ed workers in NYC, they said that on any given day in the 5 NYC boroughs, 40 200lb, cast iron, mostly made in India, manhole covers pop.

Soooo... they can't drill vent holes in the things?
posted by Zinger at 12:29 PM on April 27, 2007


Talking with a bunch of Con Ed workers in NYC, they said that on any given day in the 5 NYC boroughs, 40 200lb, cast iron, mostly made in India, manhole covers pop.

Soooo... they can't drill vent holes in the things?
posted by Zinger at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2007


It may be a single video link...

No, actually it's a week old FARK link to a LiveLeak video which has been ripped off and hosted on some no-name, ebaum-modeled, bile filled repository of fucking filth. Thanks for sharing though.
posted by prostyle at 12:30 PM on April 27, 2007


Oh shit prostyle I really am sorry :( I had no idea
posted by lemonfridge at 12:40 PM on April 27, 2007


*sigh* I feel terrible now I really do
posted by lemonfridge at 12:40 PM on April 27, 2007


I think prostyle just popped his manhole. Wait, that didn't come out right...
posted by maxwelton at 12:41 PM on April 27, 2007 [1 favorite]


I too am amazd by the way that people just blithely drive through the explosion. “Hey, I'm in my car, what could possibly touch me?” Except for the guy whose truck seems to have been hit by the ejected manhole cover, and the one car that stopped to rubberneck briefly…
posted by hattifattener at 12:51 PM on April 27, 2007


Actually, I don't think that drilling holes in the cover would do much to stop them getting launched. It might alleviate some of the gas when it's in a non-exploding state, but not when it's got a huge amount of propellant force behind it.

Think of it this way; when a bullet is sitting in a gun, there are little vents all around it called rifling, (well ok, they aren't meant to be vents, but they do act that way.) and yet there is still more than enough force to fire the bullet out of the barrel. I would image that the same thing applies to manhole covers.
posted by quin at 12:58 PM on April 27, 2007


No, actually it's a week old FARK link to a LiveLeak video etc etc

Well, I enjoyed it - thank you.
posted by jontyjago at 1:10 PM on April 27, 2007


Manhole covers have vent holes. With a big enough pressure differential, all they do is slow things down.

Also, I'd have to say that on balance tearing ass through the thing, is probably marginally safer than trying to stop. Control your lane, then control your speed.
posted by Skorgu at 1:11 PM on April 27, 2007




Manhole covers have vent holes.

A lot of the ones in my neck of the woods just have the holes for the removal tool to hook into. Though I suppose that is just as effective a vent as anything else.

is probably marginally safer than trying to stop. Control your lane, then control your speed.


I'm prone to agree with you. I think my reaction to an explosion in front of me would be to get it behind me as quickly as possible.
posted by quin at 1:25 PM on April 27, 2007


@andywolf: i was wondering if it was minneapolis as i watched. elpacito's link says the video from '04 was in minneapolis.

I think you're right. If I'm not mistaken, that storm grate is just north of the 46th street overpass on 35W.

What I love about the video is that people are still damned determined to drive through a giant geyser in six inch deep water. Typical.
posted by nathan_teske at 1:36 PM on April 27, 2007


The reason, they said, was that the salt corrodes the sheathing on the cables under the street, which builds up a gas and then when the wires in the cable contact, the spark causes an explosion...or several, sometimes lifting/exploding up half a dozen manhole covers on a single street.

Hey Nickyskye, that does seem like a more viable explanation. 40 of those 200 lb fuckers going ballistic per day is amazing though. I'm going to start wearing a helmet.
posted by Skygazer at 1:40 PM on April 27, 2007


the spark causes an explosion...or several, sometimes lifting/exploding up half a dozen manhole covers on a single street.

I have actually seen this happen on a couple of different occasions from my office building in lower Manhattan. It's pretty terrifying. The first time was a couple of weeks after 9/11. I nearly shit my trousers.

This is actually why they have those huge aluminum canisters next to various manhole covers all over Manhattan. The gas they contain is meant to inhibit this reaction.
posted by psmealey at 1:53 PM on April 27, 2007


Sometimes the progress of the human race is depressing. Guess what the current, accepted, best-practice for handling storm surges in a combined sewage system is.

Give up?


A big tank to hold it all in until after the rain stops. I want you all to know I'm strenuously avoiding a buffer overflow joke here.
posted by Skorgu at 1:58 PM on April 27, 2007


Bad analogy quin, bullets are designed to fill those gaps by deforming.

"Bullet designs have to solve several problems:

The bullet must seal somewhat to the gun's bore. If it doesn't, the gas from the gunpowder will blow right by.

There are two types of seals (gas checks) in common use. One is a slight indentation in the back of the bullet. Gas pressure forces the metal lip against the bore.

Another type is a basic labyrinthine seal: one or two bands of raised material go around the bullet."

posted by BrotherCaine at 2:26 PM on April 27, 2007


Skorgu, why is a big tank such a poor solution? I can only think of four ways to handle urban runoff in a city with a pre-existing combined sewer:

1) Discharge into the Mississippi whenever it rains. (pollution)
2) Build treatment capacity to handle peak instantaneous rainfall. ($$$)
3) Build seperate storm sewers. ($)
4) Build big tanks. ($)

Solutions (1) and (2) are silly. Solutions (3) and (4) both seem fairly reasonable. It's possible that solution (4) (big tanks) is both the cheapest and the cleanest solution. My city has seperate sewers but the urban runoff is still pretty nasty.
posted by ryanrs at 2:43 PM on April 27, 2007


psmealey, This is actually why they have those huge aluminum canisters next to various manhole covers all over Manhattan. The gas they contain is meant to inhibit this reaction.

omg, psmealey, I always wondered what those ominous looking tanks of liquid nitrogen were for. Thanks for the info. Your comment prompted me to google the subject and I came up with this interesting tidbit on the subject. (I didn't know you worked in nyc, did I? how cool)

And in case anyone was wondering about the salt that corrodes the cables' rubber sheathing, it's spread on the streets to melt the ice/snow in winter.

Another thing not to walk on is those generator grids. the con Ed guys said they can make french fries of humans and animals under the wrong conditions, "stray voltage" and "hot zones".

And another thing they said is that the subway tunnels are all lined with asbestos and every subway ride one breathes in dangerous amounts of the toxic fibers. Can't find data to back that up but believe the info needs to be researched and to get out there to the public...the manhole cover and "hot zones" info too for that matter.
posted by nickyskye at 3:35 PM on April 27, 2007


bullets are designed to fill those gaps by deforming.

Yeah, I knew I'd get called out on that one. True, the bullet has to deform in order for the rifling to work, but some gas does get past the bullet. You can kinda see it here.

It wasn't great, but it was the first analogy that came to mind.
posted by quin at 3:38 PM on April 27, 2007


Think of a classic dome-shaped parachute. It's got a hole in the top and still brakes a skydiver reasonably well. (In fact, the hole's necessary, but for reasons unnecessary to using a parachute for an analogy.)
posted by ardgedee at 4:09 PM on April 27, 2007


quin wrote: Massive deluge of water when you are out in the open and unprotected? The stuff of nightmares.

I dunno. You probably just drank too much water before going to bed. Though certainly distressing, I think your scenario lacks the surreal hellishness of a bona fide nightmare. For example:

Results 1 - 10 of about 36,600 English pages for minneapolis sewer sprays blood.

© 2007 id Software, Inc.
posted by ryanrs at 4:19 PM on April 27, 2007


Ok, yeah. Blood from the sewer might trump biblical style flooding.*

But if combined the two...

Imagine that linked video, but now it's blood! (and suddenly you are in an old Peter Jackson movie.)

*: Might. If I were the guy that got caught in that, I'd be pretty freaked out. I mean, the last thing you worry about when walking down the street is suddenly drowning. I'd be pretty willing to bet that subsequent nightmares could have been involved.
posted by quin at 4:34 PM on April 27, 2007


ryanrs: Option (1) may seem silly to you, but not in London...
posted by patricio at 4:51 PM on April 27, 2007


Saw this sort of thing happen once in Iowa City. Early 90s. Most exciting damn thing I ever witnessed in Iowa City. Recall watching this sequoia of stormwater standing above the middle of the street — and the roar — and then a massive iron manhole cover suddenly hurls down from God knows where and effortlessly totals my girlfriend's Prelude.
posted by Haruspex at 4:53 PM on April 27, 2007


Sewer explosions can also be caused by submerged steam lines.
posted by Mblue at 7:40 PM on April 27, 2007


the subway tunnels are all lined with asbestos and every subway ride one breathes in dangerous amounts of the toxic fibers. Can't find data to back that up

Look up NYC's cancer stats. If there's asbestos in the subways, lung cancers will be insanely high.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:41 PM on April 27, 2007


If you're an exploding storm drain, then what am I?
posted by moonbird at 9:12 PM on April 27, 2007


This is a fine little post, and then a wonderful thread. I love it when mefi's collective intelligence produces this kind of commentary: the detective work, with various and competing theories leading to a general consensus, the links to other upsetting sewer happenings, a few related personal anecdotes, and the scattered "Holy Shit!"

For me, this was the most enjoyable post of the day.
posted by serazin at 9:27 PM on April 27, 2007


My understanding from people who have first-hand knowledge of the Twin Cities' underground is that this is a 14-ft. diameter tunnel, which varies between concrete arched and rounded sections. This manhole may have been above a junction where two smaller pipes (each 8-9 ft. diameter) dump into the larger one, and this specific arrangement lead to the flow backing up the shaft. It's definitely a known system for local underground explorers.
posted by kowalski at 3:07 AM on April 28, 2007


And underground whitewater rafters, I imagine.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:45 AM on April 28, 2007


five fresh fish: Look up NYC's cancer stats. If there's asbestos in the subways, lung cancers will be insanely high.

Yeah but... Each year about 100, 000 New Yorkers are diagnosed with cancer.

Mesothelioma usually takes decades -up to 50 years- to emerge and it's not only the lungs where it may occur, but in the stomach or heart. And a big percent of New Yorkers stay here a while, then leave and go to live elsewhere. So there's no knowing exactly what the impact of the asbestos in the subway is. It is lined with asbestos. I don't think the Con Ed workers were lying. We were all attending a course on asbestos air inspection. A number of the workers already had mesothelioma/asbestosis and were attending the course to know about the impact of asbestos as they filed lawsuits. Or were attending to know how to participate in removing asbestos.

Now there's also the post 9/11 illness to contend with that's impacting tens of thousands of people who were either living in NYC then or came to help at that time and stayed near Ground Zero. The EPA said the air was safe at that time, endangering the lives of literally millions of New Yorkers exposed to the toxic air around 9/11 Ground Zero. With that in mind I think New Yorkers are also being misled by the EPA inaction about this asbestos and endangered by the friable asbestos particles in the NYC subway system. In the years to come that will be an interesting story. Hoping a decent journalist starts working on the subject soon.
posted by nickyskye at 11:34 AM on April 28, 2007


patricio, I meant to say option (2), SuperSewers, was silly. It's just ridiculously expensive and unnecessary. Option (1), the local waterways, shouldn't be an option at all. It just describes the default situation when the local govt can't get its act together.
<insert joke about Victorian sewers>
posted by ryanrs at 12:19 PM on April 28, 2007


Scary, very scary, Nicky.

It surprises me that the tunnels are not being sprayed with fixative. AFAIK, asbestos is only a problem if it's floating around as dust.
posted by five fresh fish at 12:52 PM on April 28, 2007


this post makes the internet worthwhile, at last.
posted by snailer at 12:58 PM on April 28, 2007


five fresh fish, It surprises me that the tunnels are not being sprayed with fixative. AFAIK, asbestos is only a problem if it's floating around as dust.

Good point, but the rattling of the subway as it passes through the tunnels, the endless construction going on in the city around subway tunnels etc. makes that a band-aid move, rather than what really needs to be done, remove the stuff.

"Doctors think that asbestosis develops because some asbestos minerals break into 5-to-50-micron-long (1 micron = 10-8 cm) fibers and are inhaled along with other dust; but unlike other dust, these fibers fit snugly into pores in the lung and stay put. The exact process by which asbestos causes cancer isn’t really known. According to one hypothesis, fibers may enter the bloodstream by piercing the lung and entering capillaries. Perhaps the fibers enter cells and somehow interfere with DNA, causing the cells to become malignant."

Not only is the subway system air toxic with asbestos particles, the steam that comes up from the manholes is also toxic with asbestos, which is breathed in all winter by passers-by. The particles are airborne in water droplets. Once in a while a manhole will explode and splatter an entire city block with asbestos, which is usally cleaned up by non-English-speaking immigrants, like my ex-boyfriend from the former Yugoslavia, who aren't informed of the danger of the work.
posted by nickyskye at 2:54 PM on April 28, 2007


As someone who explores stormwater drains, this is the precise reason why we say `when it rains, don't go in drains'. It's frightening how little rain it requires to make a drain run fast and deep.

I don't think the cover in this video is blown up and over, more like it slides violently across, into the path of the truck.

One thing that scares me about this video is the gaping maw of the open manhole - it's unusually massive and if you stepped into it, you would be whisked into a black maelstrom of fast flowing water, and they would most likely never recover your body.
posted by tomble at 4:43 PM on April 28, 2007


Well, damn, I guess I'm glad I'm not in NYC, Nickyskye. I am quite surprised there isn't a fair bit of panic about it all.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:56 PM on April 28, 2007


tomble, as a kid vising friends in Pasadena, the cool thing to do was go into a storm drain and sit on the thin trickle of water constantly flowing over the concrete, which had accumulated long stringy moss or on the metal pipe. Usually we'd slide bare ass. The best storm drain ride in the neighborhood was a place called Stinky Felix' slide. Total fun and a great ride. Now, when I think about the dangers, including snakes, the mind boggles.

So you explore drains?
posted by nickyskye at 5:29 PM on April 28, 2007


Well, damn, I guess I'm glad I'm not in NYC, Nickyskye. I am quite surprised there isn't a fair bit of panic about it all

The subways in Toronto are full of asbestos too. As I expect are most subways of comparable age.
posted by biscotti at 5:37 PM on April 28, 2007


five fresh fish: Well, damn, I guess I'm glad I'm not in NYC, Nickyskye. I am quite surprised there isn't a fair bit of panic about it all

When I took that course to get an asbestos inspector certificate (an architect friend told me I could make an extra $25,000 a year doing inspections part time), it became plain how staggeringly corrupt the entire asbestos world is, wall to wall and not just in NYC by any means. And it has been for hundreds of years. A quick google on the Johns Manville company, which went bankrupt to avoid remunerating people whose lives had been basically destroyed by asbestosis, will give you a small inkling. Appropriately, the founder died of asbestosis.
posted by nickyskye at 7:13 PM on April 28, 2007


go into a storm drain and sit on the thin trickle of water constantly flowing over the concrete, which had accumulated long stringy moss or on the metal pipe. Usually we'd slide bare ass.

OMFG.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:45 PM on April 28, 2007


five fresh fish, OMFG.

Why?

It was better than getting our jeans shredded from the friction. It was fast. woo hoo! Doing a quick google of Pasadena storm drains I came across this site, UrbanAdventure, a whole drain dudes culture with tons of pics, maps, videos. It also has photos of tunnels at Virginia Tech.
posted by nickyskye at 9:41 PM on April 28, 2007


Bumping into seaweed while swimming grosses me out. Walking barefoot over squelching mats of algae grosses me out. The idea of sliding it over snatch, taint, and hole grosses me out.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:41 AM on April 29, 2007


Oh seaweed in the water, ewwwww, hate that. And mats of algae underfoot, unnnnggg, awful. But wet moss on ass is quite nice, lol.
posted by nickyskye at 6:06 PM on April 29, 2007


You never wish to peer at natural wet moss under a magnifying glass.

Much roundworm as a kid? I can see how it could easily happen. Kids are, in a word, daft.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:29 PM on April 29, 2007


heh, no roundworm as a kid but tons living in India as an adult. Like snakes, not kidding. Well, skinny little snakes.

You mean Pasadena drain moss has critters in it?

Yeah, but one can look at a drop of water and see the critters. And forget sushi. Living dangerously is more fun, daft but fun. :)
posted by nickyskye at 5:57 AM on April 30, 2007


T'ain't for me, that's all I can say.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:22 AM on April 30, 2007


Whatever doesn't kill us makes us stronger.
posted by Dave Faris at 10:48 AM on April 30, 2007


Except polio.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:46 PM on April 30, 2007 [1 favorite]


and osteoporosis
posted by shmegegge at 2:35 PM on April 30, 2007


"When encountering such a phenomenon while driving a vehicle, is the proper course of action really to drive right the fuck through it?"

To a certain point, yes. If you keep moving, you can avoid flooding your engine. If stopping would bring you into the swell/explosion, you're killing your car by sitting there. However, once it's clear there's about to be flooding, you should stop. So yes, the first three or four cars probably should've. After that, people should have had time to stop well before the main flooding area.
posted by Eideteker at 4:23 PM on May 4, 2007


Quin, not that you are still reading, but I found a better example of escaping gases from a gun firing about 1m20s into this high speed video.
posted by BrotherCaine at 9:50 PM on May 21, 2007


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