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"He has a history of heart challenges ..."
May 15, 2007 10:45 AM   Subscribe

[NewsFilter] Jerry Falwell was found unconscious in his office today and has since died. Exactly what did they mean by "heart challenges" ?
posted by scblackman (573 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite

 
Oh my dear God in Heaven, thank you for blessing us with this man, Your servent. In his short time on earth he acomplished much good an... wait... did you say Jerry Falwell?

Fuck Jerry Falwell.
posted by wfrgms at 10:46 AM on May 15, 2007 [26 favorites]


I hope he fell well all the way to hell.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Hustler Magazine v. Falwell.
posted by phaedon at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


The USA's acceptance of homosexuality and other aberrant behaviors has created an environment which possibly has caused God to lift the veil of protection on Rev. Falwell's massively clogged arteries
posted by matteo at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [34 favorites]


I usually don't wish ill of the dead. In this case -- enjoy fucking Hell you scumbag.
posted by ericb at 10:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


[NewsFilter]: Jerry Falwell had a heart!
posted by veggieboy at 10:49 AM on May 15, 2007 [29 favorites]


*
posted by Scoo at 10:49 AM on May 15, 2007 [7 favorites]


This will falwell.
posted by DU at 10:49 AM on May 15, 2007 [26 favorites]


I wish I wasn't an atheist right now so I could enjoy the image of this fuckwad burning in eternal torment. Good riddance asshole.
posted by AstroGuy at 10:50 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


An evil, hateful man who was the first to try to explicitly make this a Christian Theocracy (he had success, and his influence has spawned many more evil and hateful people now in power throughout this Administration).

His Moral Majority was neither. Good riddance.
posted by amberglow at 10:50 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]



posted by pruner at 10:50 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


I look forward to the changes this will bring.
posted by ColdChef at 10:50 AM on May 15, 2007


IM IN UR LIBRULL SITE FORMING MY LYNCHMOB.
posted by Firas at 10:50 AM on May 15, 2007 [10 favorites]


Wait, wait, wait! Don't get started yet. Give me about two minutes...

*pops popcorn in microwave*
*settles into La-Z-Boy*

...OK, I'm good. Have at 'em, boys and girls!

(on preview: man, that was fast)
posted by pardonyou? at 10:51 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


some of his more notable and disgusting quotes
posted by amberglow at 10:52 AM on May 15, 2007


Jerry Falwell will be remembered as a man of integrity, a civil rights activist who worked tirelessly towards true freedom of speech, human rights, and equality for all.
posted by cmonkey at 10:52 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


"The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country."

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals."

"There is no separation of church and state. Modern US Supreme Courts have raped the Constitution and raped the Christian faith and raped the churches by misinterpreting what the Founders had in mind in the First Amendment to the Constitution."

"I do not believe the homosexual community deserves minority status. One's misbehavior does not qualify him or her for minority status. Blacks, Hispanics, women, etc., are God-ordained minorities who do indeed deserve minority status."

So, yeah.
posted by ORthey at 10:52 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I am pleased that he is dead.
posted by cloeburner at 10:53 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I don't normally like to speak ill of the dead, but seriously: fuck Jerry Falwell.
posted by Rangeboy at 10:53 AM on May 15, 2007


Tinky-Winky is pissing on his grave already!

Oh, how I wish the img tag was working.
posted by ericb at 10:53 AM on May 15, 2007


A disgusting excuse for a human being--he truly is rotting in hell.

... I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious Freedom

AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.
-- Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)

The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country. ...

posted by amberglow at 10:53 AM on May 15, 2007


It's too bad he couldn't have fallen on Pat Robertson in the process and crushed him to death too.

I wish I could think of something good to say about the man, but other than the fact that his passing will remove another voice of hate from the world, I'm drawing a blank.
posted by Brak at 10:53 AM on May 15, 2007 [9 favorites]


I will suspend my disbelief in an afterlife for a few minutes in order to imagine the sizzle of his flesh charring in the flames of Hell.
posted by fleetmouse at 10:54 AM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


"[NewsFilter]: Jerry Falwell had a heart!"

Actually, he didn't. That's what was so challenging.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:54 AM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


Is there a Ralph's around here?
posted by jsavimbi at 10:54 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


We have him to thank for this. And this fine institution of higher learning.

I really wish there were something nice I can say about the guy. But he spoke out against pretty much anyone who isn't white, male, straight, and Christian. So good riddance, Jerry, you will not be missed in my house.
posted by mkultra at 10:54 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Good riddance.
posted by malocchio at 10:55 AM on May 15, 2007


What could I do? Maimonides said I should kill him.
posted by Astro Zombie at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007 [26 favorites]


An obituary that I have read with pleasure.
posted by dilettante at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


All else aside, I bet John McCain's breathing a sigh of relief.
posted by boo_radley at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


Huh. I was just getting ready to post this myself.

I wonder how Pat Robertson's feeling these days?
posted by pax digita at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


Too bad he died ... I wanted to use the phrase Feel Well Fallwell

Seriously though, whatever you thought about this person, I mean, c'mon the guy just died...
posted by Debaser626 at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


"heart challenges" must mean his abject hatred of anyone not like him.
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

Lest we forget some of his teachings.
posted by papercake at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


*
posted by bshort at 10:56 AM on May 15, 2007


He's down there in hell with Hitler and Confucius, I reckon. I hope Confucius kicks his ass.
posted by Mister_A at 10:57 AM on May 15, 2007


Jerry Falwell will be remembered as a man of integrity, a civil rights activist who worked tirelessly towards true freedom of speech, human rights, and equality for all.

You're obviously thinking of Jerry Lewis, or Jerry Springer, or Jerry the cartoon mouse, or some other Jerry--all of whom are paragons of virtue compared.
posted by amberglow at 10:57 AM on May 15, 2007


Allow me to be the first to sing a song in his honor:

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!

Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.

Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.

Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,

Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.

Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know

The Wicked Witch is dead!

posted by Muddler at 10:58 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Falwell on 9/11: I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.

What fleetmouse said.
posted by jimmythefish at 10:58 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Man, I hope his last moments were agonizing.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:59 AM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


I have to admit I find it oddly ironic that Tammy Faye Bakker Messner has outlived him.
posted by konolia at 10:59 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


And this year's award for magnanimity goes to...
posted by Jofus at 10:59 AM on May 15, 2007


As my cube mate said, "Wherever he is now, I'm sure he's surprised."
posted by mosk at 11:00 AM on May 15, 2007 [29 favorites]


Vaya con dios fuckwad!
posted by DieHipsterDie at 11:00 AM on May 15, 2007


Seriously though, whatever you thought about this person, I mean, c'mon the guy just died...
posted by Debaser626


People die every day. Better people. More productive, caring, intelligent people. What makes this fucker so special that I should forgive and forget just because his old body decided to stop supporting his hatred and negative energy?
posted by NationalKato at 11:00 AM on May 15, 2007 [10 favorites]


So will the Phelps clan be protesting his funeral?
posted by gyc at 11:01 AM on May 15, 2007 [13 favorites]


It's kinda creepy that he had a giant portrait of himself behind his desk. That really takes an ego the size of a small country.

You're obviously thinking of Jerry Lewis, or Jerry Springer, or Jerry the cartoon mouse, or some other Jerry--all of whom are paragons of virtue compared.

No, I was being sarcastic. Jerry Falwell will be lost to history, being notable only for being an ignorant shithead and the world has seen plenty of those come and go.

posted by cmonkey at 11:01 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mister_A, why would Confucius be in hell?
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2007


I'll join the chorus: fuck Jerry Fallwell.
posted by killy willy at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2007


Seriously though, whatever you thought about this person, I mean, c'mon the guy just died...

I hope he doesn't read all these mean things people are saying about him!
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Personally, I blame God for killing him.
posted by byronimation at 11:02 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


NationalKato: You should forgive and forget because forgiving and forgetting is classier.
posted by Jofus at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007


"why would Confucius be in hell?"

For being responsible for those awful "Confucius say..." jokes, of course.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007


why would Confucius be in hell?

The Chinese have many hells
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


It appears that America's anti-Biblical feminist movement is at last dying, thank God, and is possibly being replaced by a Christ-centered men's movement which may become the foundation for a desperately needed national spiritual awakening.

Yes, because our world has had a dearth of religious-centered male-dominated groups these past few centuries. No wonder we have failed to get to that 'spiritual awakening'.

I don't say things like this often, but the world is a better place for him having left it.
posted by quin at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I know it's 5:00 o'clock somewhere in the world. Cocktails for everyone. Cheers!
posted by ericb at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007


Who's going to the funeral? It will be interesting to watch the GOP candidates wrestle with this one.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:03 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I have decided that I shall think of him with the kind of Christian charity that he rarely demonstrated towards others.

RIP, Mr. Falwell. May God have mercy on you and your family.
posted by muddgirl at 11:04 AM on May 15, 2007 [11 favorites]


"Ron Godwin, Liberty's executive vice president, said Falwell, 73, had been found unresponsive around 10:45 a.m. and was taken to Lynchburg General Hospital."

No need to Godwin this thread (as it has already). Falwell's folks have seen to that!
posted by ericb at 11:05 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


It will be very interesting to see which of the GOP candidates attend his funeral.
posted by mkultra at 11:05 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


He was a real piece of shit.
posted by interrobang at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


"I had breakfast with him, and he was fine at breakfast," Godwin said. "He went to his office, I went to mine, and they found him unresponsive."

Falwell was Godwinned.
posted by Stynxno at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Personally, I blame God for killing him.

That's a good point--especially for someone who purported to be moral and holy and godly and good, etc--and who tried to force his morals and religion on the rest of us. God wasn't on his side after all.
posted by amberglow at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007


i hope the door hit him on the way out
posted by Mach5 at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007


goodnight, fundyman.
posted by raztaj at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


I'd like to imagine Falwell approaching the seat of Jesus at this very minute, and going from being all self-righteous to mildly perturbed to taken aback to horrified as he sees Jesus staring at him, shaking his head sadly. Jesus doesn't say anything at all, just looks at him in disgust. Yeah, I'd like to think that. Allow me my fantasies.
posted by jokeefe at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


In all seriousness, wasn't he kind of a throwback to a time when religious kooks were on TV asking for money and not on TV asking for votes?
posted by veggieboy at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007


I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.'
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 11:06 AM on May 15, 2007


DAMNIT ERICB.
posted by Stynxno at 11:07 AM on May 15, 2007


It will be very interesting to see which of the GOP candidates attend his funeral.

I bet CNN shows it all live too--all the channels.
posted by amberglow at 11:07 AM on May 15, 2007


I can't think of anything nice to say, so I won't say anything at all.

*receives cookie from grandma*
posted by brundlefly at 11:07 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Gehenna is not hot enough for him.
posted by mds35 at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


.
posted by lester at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2007


Everyone! EVERYONE!! MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION?

Please listen to me so that we can maintain ORDER and keep people from being CRUSHED BY THE CROWD.

Those who want to DANCE on his grave, TO MY RIGHT.

Those who want to SPIT on his grave, TO MY LEFT.

Those who want to MOCK his grave, STRAIGHT AHEAD.

Those who want to MAKE SURE THEM HE'S DEAD, please take the stairs down to the viewing area.

Those who want to CELEBRATE HIS LIFE, please use this thread.

PLEASE, no running, pushing, or shoving. Exit BEHIND the grave. Once you're through, we have souvenir t-shirts for and a concession stand, all to raise money to provide security and order when Dick Cheney dies.

Thanks for you cooperation!
posted by dw at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2007 [77 favorites]


In all seriousness, wasn't he kind of a throwback to a time when religious kooks were on TV asking for money and not on TV asking for votes?
No--he was the first one to change that and be explicitly and overtly political in the 70s (along with Anita Bryant, and even more than Schlafy--way way more than other preachers of the time).
posted by amberglow at 11:08 AM on May 15, 2007


Fuck him with the antenna on the top of that Teletubby's head. I hope he suffered for a while before he was extinguished.
posted by notsnot at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


.
posted by mrbob at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


Are we sure it isn't the rapture?
posted by DragonBoy at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007 [7 favorites]


CNN is softballing the guy:

"Falwell has found himself at the center of several controversies, such as the one sparked by his comments two days after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks in which he seemed to blame"abortionists," gays, lesbians, the ACLU and People for American Way for causing the attacks, saying they "helped this happen."

On September 14, 2001, he told CNN that he would "never blame any human being except the terrorists, and if I left that impression with gays or lesbians or anyone else, I apologize." "

Seemed to blame? Are you kidding me?
posted by killy willy at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


Who's going to the funeral? It will be interesting to watch the GOP candidates wrestle with this one.

And, what will the future quote be: "Laura and I are....he was a....the country is...."
posted by ericb at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


But he spoke out against pretty much anyone who isn't white, male, straight, and Christian.

I'm all four of those, and I certainly don't consider him to have spoken for me, however. Or especially for Jesus Christ, for that matter. At least, not Christ as I understand Him. Along with Robertson and those Landover Baptist Church people, he arguably did more to make my preferred flavor of contact with the numinous look bad than anybody'd manged since the Crusades and the Spanish Inquisition.
posted by pax digita at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


I believe in reincarnation, so I'm having all kinds of fun today imagining Falwell's karma smackdown coming...
posted by Liosliath at 11:09 AM on May 15, 2007


I just told my 21 year old daughter that Fallwell died. Her response: "Who's Jerry Falwell?"

And yes, she's a Christian.

Guys, a 73 year old man just died. He is now standing before his Maker and Judge. I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect-a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

That's a solemn thing no matter who the corpse of honor is.
posted by konolia at 11:10 AM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


Dear God In Heaven, please let it be the result of autoerotic asphyxiation.
posted by bondcliff at 11:10 AM on May 15, 2007 [8 favorites]


Exactly what did they mean by "heart challenges" ?

I'm pretty sure that was a typo and they meant to say "heart-challenged".

Artist's conception of Mr. Falwell's last moments. Here's hoping they were painful.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:10 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


.

Oh wait, fuck that. No . for scumbags, when does Pat Robertson go? It isn't soon enough.
posted by T.D. Strange at 11:10 AM on May 15, 2007


All aboard! Next stop, 8th circle, 9th Bolgia.
posted by stevis23 at 11:10 AM on May 15, 2007


On having heard this news I felt a bizarre mix of jubilation and extreme guilt over feeling jubilation.

Still, I mean, he was a fuckwad, right?
posted by kbanas at 11:12 AM on May 15, 2007


I can think of a lot more things I can waste my measly respect on, konolia. Dead hoboes. The bacteria in my crap. Etc. Calling that waste of carbon a "man" is a stretch.
posted by notsnot at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


"Don't say anything about the dead unless it's good."
"He's dead."
"Good."
posted by Richard Daly at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2007 [21 favorites]


Looks like Bill Clinton has claimed another victim in his serial-killing spree exposed by Rev. Falwell in the Clinton Chronicles.
posted by deanc at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2007


Man, fuck Jerry Falwell.

I do believe the world just became a little bit lighter.
posted by perilous at 11:13 AM on May 15, 2007


lFor those of us who oppose Theocracy, he was a very worthy adversary. We should remember that, in his absence, his machine will continue to work, maybe without a talented fund-raiser at the top, but also without a millionaire whose lifestyle had to be supported by some of those funds.

I'd wish that the 150 Liberty University grads with important jobs in the White House would suddenly become unable to function without the direct orders of their spiritual leader, but sadly, it's not that easy. Still, we can certainly expect them all to be disheartened, and if a few of them turn this into a change of heart and become whistle-blowers against the Administration, this will become a very important day in American History.
posted by wendell at 11:14 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Crap...I typed Landover Baptist Church...that's the parody one. The one I was thinking of was Westboro Baptist Church. Apologies for brain cramp.
posted by pax digita at 11:14 AM on May 15, 2007


Exactly what did they mean by "heart challenges"

I presume that this is the "positive thinking" version of "heart problems."
posted by deanc at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


It will be even more interesting to see which Democratic presidential candidates will attend (and if they will be "allowed" to kneel before the casket). All the republicans will clear the decks to attend.

I am concerned that I don't know what monster is going to pop up and take his place. It is hard to imagine more extreme and hateful but then again...
posted by zerobyproxy at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Guys, a 73 year old man just died. He is now standing before his Maker and Judge. I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect-a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

That's a solemn thing no matter who the corpse of honor is.


...Nahhhhhhhhhh!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


I hope he suffered before he died.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


Exactly what did they mean by "heart challenges" ?
It was cold and black.
posted by MrMoonPie at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


I never got to put my dick in his ass.

All the same to me, I guess.
posted by four panels at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


WANT WANT WANT!!!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect-a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

This doesn't even make any sense, but thanks for trying.
posted by cmonkey at 11:15 AM on May 15, 2007


Ding dong, the witch is dead!
posted by triolus at 11:17 AM on May 15, 2007


Wonkette's coverage is way harsh....
posted by daHIFI at 11:17 AM on May 15, 2007


Guys, a 73 year old man just died. He is now standing before his Maker and Judge. I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect-a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.
He's not standing where you think he is, konolia. And people who sow hatred and evil and divisiveness and scapegoating in public for decades are not deserving of any respect. Respect is not automatically due to all who die just because they die. Their lives are what counted--his was used for evil.
posted by amberglow at 11:17 AM on May 15, 2007 [18 favorites]


Sorry konolia, I think you're fighting a losing battle here; Falwell is just too well hated, I'm afraid. I can muster some sympathy for his immediate family, but, you know, he was 73 and had suffered a heart condition (oh the irony) so it can't be entirely unexpected.
posted by jokeefe at 11:18 AM on May 15, 2007


Guys, a 73 year old man just died. He is now standing before his Maker and Judge. I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect-a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

It's not about him, konolia. It's about what he represents and the character he played on the stage of life, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Personally, I hope that in his heavenly trial, God assigns him ACLU lawyers.
posted by dw at 11:18 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


He roams now and forever in a higher hell than those who have commited obitfilter.










Who's taking bets for quadruple-plus-posting of this item?
posted by mds35 at 11:18 AM on May 15, 2007


konolia writes "That's a solemn thing no matter who the corpse of honor is."

Indeed. I've just donated $50 to Human Rights Campaign in his memory.
posted by mr_roboto at 11:19 AM on May 15, 2007 [12 favorites]


from Wonkette: Reached in Heaven, the Lord God said he was “looking forward to speaking to Jerry,” and that God’s loyal lieutenant Satan Von Lucifer would “go Abu Ghraib on his fat ass for the next 10 million years.”

I can't wait to see what rudepundit has to say.
posted by amberglow at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2007


Rather than speaking ill of the dead, let me simply say " ".
posted by tyllwin at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2007


Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

It's the journey, not the destination, man.

I'll settle for adios, señor jerry. Vaya con ... ah, just vaya. Gracias.
posted by bhance at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


I couldn't stand the man, and felt that he was pretty close to my admittedly hazy conception of "evil," but I just can't rejoice in the death of anyone. Besides, it's not like his death will change anything. The world will not be an appreciably better place without him. There'll still be fucktons bigots advocating theocracy. One guy's dead. La dee da.

Besides, there's a difference between "showing respect" to the dead and actually respecting them.
posted by brundlefly at 11:20 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


'Sides, I think that "standing before Maker and Judge" thing comes at the end of the world, right? Quibble, quibble...
posted by pax digita at 11:21 AM on May 15, 2007


Goddamn, the line to place my virtual nuts in this dude's post-mortem eye sockets is already two blocks long!
posted by The Straightener at 11:21 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


The damage that Jerry Falwell has done to our culture and the world will outlive him. His influence will linger to legitimize the small people of the world.

This isn't a victory, or a time for smugness. It just marks the 'run' part of a hit-and-run done to planet Earth.
posted by bicyclefish at 11:21 AM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


Nothing in his life became him like the leaving it.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:21 AM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


You know, God is a gay black ACLU member and Falwell is really pissing in his pants right about now.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Is Falwell the one with the diamond mines in Africa, or is that Robertson?
posted by mr_roboto at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2007


I would have preferred Fred Phelps myself, but Falwell will do.
posted by mrbill at 11:22 AM on May 15, 2007


I think the rest of us no matter what our views on the man (my own are a bit complicated) need to show some respect

I, on the other hand, think that respect is earned, just as disrespect is.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:23 AM on May 15, 2007


amberglow, yes, definitely. But it just seems like we're increasingly skipping the middleman and his political organization and electing the religious kook. I could be wrong.
posted by veggieboy at 11:23 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Why must you always beat up on the Scientologists round here?
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2007


Well, Phelps'll turn 78 this year, so hang in there.
posted by pax digita at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2007


OMG the image under the new Wonkette post is fuckin hilarious
posted by daHIFI at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2007


When [LIBERAL ICON] dies and gets Obitfiltered, someone is going to spew vomit all over that thread, and when asked to quit, he will link to this thread and say that he thought it was okay to talk crap about the dead, because most everyone was doing it and next to no one cared.
posted by 23skidoo at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2007 [10 favorites]


Gawker: Jerry Falwell Finally Dead By God's Hand

he definitely was smited.
posted by amberglow at 11:24 AM on May 15, 2007


Nothing he ever did in this world became him so much as his leaving of it.
posted by Mr Pointy at 11:25 AM on May 15, 2007


I had an interview with him set up for mid-June. This is really going to complicate that timeline.
posted by parmanparman at 11:26 AM on May 15, 2007


"And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man like Jerry Fatass Fucking Falwell to enter into the kingdom of God."
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:26 AM on May 15, 2007


And The Lord God said, "STFU!" And Rev. Jerry STFU. And it was good.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:27 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


On preview....
posted by triolus at 11:27 AM on May 15, 2007


Why do I owe respect to somebody/anybody who just died? In life, he showed little or no respect for millions. How does his passing suddenly warrant respect? I don't get it.

As you say, it is now between him and his Maker and Judge. My opinion of the man and my rejoicing at his demise is immaterial.
posted by daveleck at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


The world will not be an appreciably better place without him.

I beg to differ. I don't believe in hell, but the mere fact of his non-existence is celebration-worthy to me. Adios, you apartheid-supporting, lying, authoritarian, hateful blowhard. Death may suck, but at least it rids us of people like you, sooner or later.
posted by emjaybee at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'"
posted by EarBucket at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2007 [7 favorites]


I'm not going to cheer for his death, but I'll cheer for the fact that his influence is terminated.
posted by katillathehun at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


The Earth just became a little less hateful. Hooray!

BTW: My prayer's totally worked! Thank you, Flying Spaghetti Monster for striking down this hateful man with your noodly appendages!

P.S. To revel in the death of another human being shows some callousness, for sure, but c'mon we're celebrating life! Everyone's life who is no longer subject to the incessant bigotry expounded by this misguided man.
posted by quanta and qualia at 11:28 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


On this occasion let us pause to...

eh, on second thought. Let's not.
posted by psmealey at 11:29 AM on May 15, 2007


Konolia's right - it IS a sad thing.

It's sad that he lived to be 73 instead of being stillborn.

It's sad that he died quickly instead of lingering in unspeakable agony.

It's sad that he wasn't whisked back in time into the hands of the Inquisition so that he could be tortured to death as a heretic, enjoying the strappado and the rectal pear.

I could go on but you get the idea.
posted by fleetmouse at 11:29 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


*D'oh!* Armitage Shanks... grumble grumble....
posted by Mr Pointy at 11:29 AM on May 15, 2007


w00t!
posted by krinklyfig at 11:30 AM on May 15, 2007


Oh, and Pat Robertson is 77 now, and Oral Roberts is nearly ninety. You guys are in for some more gloating, I'm guessing.

(Not complaining or pointing fingers...just sayin'.)
posted by pax digita at 11:30 AM on May 15, 2007


23skidoo, we'll be correct and you'll be wrong when that happens, too. We don't have to be even-handed. Some people deserve to suffer and die. Falwell deserved it and Vonnegut didn't. Get used to it.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:31 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


He looked to be the picture of perfect health.
posted by docpops at 11:31 AM on May 15, 2007


I like to imagine Kurt Vonnegut is giving him non-stop wedgies while all of our non-asshole ancestors laugh, laugh, laugh.

But seriously, Phelps is going to have to pull double shifts now to keep the hate balance up.
posted by maryh at 11:32 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day"
That's right, and the worst reaction to my death will probably be indifference, seeing as how I haven't devoted my life to persecuting my fellow man and shitting on my own country.
posted by 2sheets at 11:33 AM on May 15, 2007 [7 favorites]


WHY DID THE LESBIANS DO THIS TO HIM?
posted by The Straightener at 11:33 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


When [LIBERAL ICON] dies and gets Obitfiltered, someone is going to spew vomit all over that thread, and when asked to quit, he will link to this thread and say that he thought it was okay to talk crap about the dead, because most everyone was doing it and next to no one cared.

The Falwell defenders here are welcome to weigh in with their viewpoints and condemnation of our collective behavior, citing his numerous accomplishments.
posted by mkultra at 11:33 AM on May 15, 2007


Along with Robertson and those Landover Baptist Church people...

Dude, Landover's a joke site.
posted by Optamystic at 11:34 AM on May 15, 2007


A much more eloquent response than mine, EarBucket. Well played.
posted by Rangeboy at 11:34 AM on May 15, 2007


I just flipped through MSNBC and CNN and they are playing sad music and talking about the "great loss". MSNBC showed a little of an interview, from last week, where he talks about the US "deserving" the 9/11 attacks because we are on the path of evil.

A complete douche to the very end.
posted by zerobyproxy at 11:35 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


` ` It is told that Buddha, going out to look on life, was greatly daunted by death. "They all eat one another!" he cried, and called it evil. This process I examined, changed the verb, said, "They all feed one another," and called it good. ' '

Our celebration of Falwell's death is really a celebration of life: we survived his long years of evil, and we will go on to make the world a more peaceful, loving place.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:35 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


my favorite falwall quote:

"Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them."
posted by Afreemind2007 at 11:36 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


He certainly was responsible for a lot of religiously-sanctioned bigotry. I feel sorry for his family members, presuming they aren't as unspeakably evil as Falwell himself seemed to be.
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:36 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I plan not to die, but to forever be resurrected in the empty shells of brainless clones of my own body, all of whom will be kept, brainlessly, on an extended regime of exercise, so that when I am put into their body, I am young and strong and very healthy. And potent. Oh my God, will I be potent.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:36 AM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


If not for the faith-based intolerance and hatred championed by angry white men like Falwell, I might never have turned away from religion and eventually become an atheist.

I will choose to thank him for that, then. As for the rest, I'll continue to devote my time and money to groups that oppose Falwell's ilk.
posted by gurple at 11:36 AM on May 15, 2007


23skidoo, care to pull the curtain back on the identity of your hate-spewing and intolerant, [LIBERAL ICON]? C'mon, don't be shy...share with us.
posted by NationalKato at 11:36 AM on May 15, 2007


more of his hits
posted by amberglow at 11:37 AM on May 15, 2007


Dead at 77? Shit I still can't believe he survived the abortion.
posted by Peter H at 11:38 AM on May 15, 2007


I hope someone shows up to his funeral and/or burial in a Tinky-Winky costume, holding a red purse.
posted by ericb at 11:39 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


...July 1984: Falwell is forced to pay gay activist Jerry Sloan $5,000 after losing a court battle. During a TV debate in Sacramento, Falwell denied calling the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches "brute beasts" and "a vile and Satanic system" that will "one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven." When Sloan insisted he had a tape, Falwell promised $5,000 if he could produce it. Sloan did so, Falwell refused to pay and Sloan successfully sued. Falwell appealed, with his attorney charging that the Jewish judge in the case was prejudiced. He lost again and was forced to pay an additional $2,875 in sanctions and court fees.
...
October 1987: The Federal Election Commission fines Falwell $6,000 for transferring $6.7 million in funds intended for his ministry to political committees. ...

posted by amberglow at 11:40 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


[this is good]
posted by exlotuseater at 11:40 AM on May 15, 2007


I like to imagine Kurt Vonnegut is giving him non-stop wedgies while all of our non-asshole ancestors laugh, laugh, laugh.

That would quite possibly make Vonnegut sadder than it would Falwell.
posted by gurple at 11:40 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


More irony...this is a pretty hateful thread. Decrying a man you call hateful. So, is hate good if YOU are the one feeling it?
posted by konolia at 11:41 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Dude, Landover's a joke site.

Like I said...

(although the Landover site does get the idea across, in its way)
posted by pax digita at 11:42 AM on May 15, 2007


23skidoo has a point: We've had "person X died, don't shit in their obit thread" MeTa discussions before. And yet, here we are, shitting in an obit thread.

But you know what's great about MeFi? We have guidelines, not rules.

So, yeah, there are some people whose obits shouldn't be shit in. And there are some people where it's ok. And that may be inconsistent, but let's just call that part of the charm of MeFi.

Me, personally, I'm going to skirt the whole issue: I'm not happy he died; I'm happy he isn't around anymore. Makes no difference to me if it's because of death, or getting stranded on the island from Lost, or warped onto planet Kashykk. It's not his death that makes me happy, it's his being gone.
posted by Bugbread at 11:42 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


What if it's not hate, but relief?
posted by boo_radley at 11:42 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


So, breakfast killed him? I guess that makes these guys shoo-ins for the Nobel Peace Prize.
posted by trondant at 11:43 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Y'know, this puts an interesting spin on the "CHRIST, WHAT AN ASSHOLE" meme.
posted by pax digita at 11:43 AM on May 15, 2007


konolia writes "So, is hate good if YOU are the one feeling it?"

No, hate is neutral when you're hating someone who is guilty. It's bad when you hate someone who is innocent. Hitler hating the Jews? Bad. Jews hating Hitler? Neutral or good.
posted by Bugbread at 11:43 AM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


People, please think of the children. The underage children, and all the blow and hookers.
posted by Peter H at 11:44 AM on May 15, 2007


Falwell arrives in Hell.

Saddam Hussein gets the ropes ready.

Stalin primes the coals.

Reagan breaks out the whips and chains. He's been polishing them for Nancy's arrival, they're all sparkling and glimmering, ready to rock.

A van from Heaven arrives, and out spills Frank Zappa, Robert Mapplethorpe and Rock Hudson.

Frank plays "Sex", "Alien Orifice" and "Dumb All Over", while Rock rams Falwell in the pooper and Mapplethorpe snaps pics on his Hasselblad.

Jesus stops in, laughs, and watches the scene. He reminds Zappa that they've got a pair of tickets to see Hendrix play later that evening. Zappa nods and smile, starts playing "Ring of Fire" and then stops. Mapplethorpe promises Jesus that he'll send prints as soon as they're ready. Reagan asks where he can find his mommy, and shits himself.

And that's a wrap. Seeya, FuckWell.
posted by dbiedny at 11:44 AM on May 15, 2007 [7 favorites]


I wonder what he'll be reincarnated as.
posted by mediaddict at 11:44 AM on May 15, 2007


Ha, that comment was not directed at bugbread.
posted by Peter H at 11:44 AM on May 15, 2007


Rephrased: "Hate" isn't, in itself, bad. A lot depends on what/who you hate. Hating women is bad. Hating scrambled eggs isn't. It's hate either way; the object of the hate is the part that determines whether it's good or bad.
posted by Bugbread at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2007


More irony...this is a pretty hateful thread. Decrying a man you call hateful. So, is hate good if YOU are the one feeling it?

I don't hate him for being hateful. I hate him for being ugly.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2007


Oh, I hope it was painful.

I do feel horrible for his family, though. I mean, imagine being raised by that asshole.
posted by cmyk at 11:45 AM on May 15, 2007


So, a general consensus: we don't like to celebrate anyone's death, but (in this case) we'll make an exception.

Two years ago, I would've been among the people on this thread dripping venom. The real truth is that I'd completely forgotten the man.

I also forgot what it's like to live in such close proximity to so many fundamentalists. It feels like this is all happening reaaaaaaaaally far away from me (which is a good thing).

Any of you American MeFites who haven't had a chance to live in an overwhelmingly secular country should really give it a whirl; it does works wonders on your hate bone.
posted by chuckdarwin at 11:46 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


23skidoo, we'll be correct and you'll be wrong when that happens, too. We don't have to be even-handed. Some people deserve to suffer and die. Falwell deserved it and Vonnegut didn't. Get used to it.

You'll be correct? I'll be wrong? All I said is that the next time someone liberal and beloved dies, people will use this thread as precedent. People use past behavior as justification for present behavior. Get used to that.
posted by 23skidoo at 11:46 AM on May 15, 2007


As a Christian, I hesitate to guess as to what God's judgement will be for Jerry Fallwell. But the first thing that came into my mind is the parable Jesus told:

And he told them this parable: "The ground of a certain rich man produced a good crop. He thought to himself, 'What shall I do? I have no place to store my crops.'

"Then he said, 'This is what I'll do. I will tear down my barns and build bigger ones, and there I will store all my grain and my goods. And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry." '

"But God said to him, 'You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?'

"This is how it will be with anyone who stores up things for himself but is not rich toward God."

Fallwell could have helped a lot of people. He could have been a real minister of the Gospel rather than a politician. He could have helped the sick and the poor. He could have served God. Instead Fallwell spend his whole life obtaining money, power, and fame, and the friendship of wealthy and powerful men. He will keep none of these things. They will pass away like Ozymandias' statue. In the end, one of two things will happen. If there is no God, then he is no more, and he has left little worthwhile in this world. If there is a God, then He will judge him, and all of Fallwell's political connections and wealth will be of no use or salvation to him. Either way, he has lost the game of life.
posted by unreason at 11:47 AM on May 15, 2007 [30 favorites]


So, is hate good if YOU are the one feeling it?
Is hate good if you do as Falwell did for decades and proclaim your God told you to hate everyone different? Is hate good when it's what you think God wants?

He sowed hate publicly and loudly. Not love, not charity, not justice, not peace, not tolerance, not anything Jesus spoke of--ever. His record is actually the exact opposite of Jesus'.
posted by amberglow at 11:47 AM on May 15, 2007


This is how it's done. A bit of class, but not obsequiousness, from one of Falwell's bitterest enemies.
posted by gurple at 11:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


These things always happen in three's... so I'm opening a book for the next one in the checkout line.

Come on, who wants a bit of action ?
I've got Roberts at 2/1 on. Robertson (oh please oh please) at 6/4. as long as he keeps bench pressing 2000 pounds.
10/1 for any other preacher of hate - And there are a good few still out there.
posted by Webbster at 11:48 AM on May 15, 2007


konolia,

most if not all of us here have not made it our life's work to perpetuate bigotry as a means to our livelihood. Falwell did. Falwell was an unmitigated cunt by any reasonable standard, and the world is a less negative place for his death.
posted by docpops at 11:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


The great thing about when someone dies is that they finally have to stop talking.

I don't understand the protest over this kind of response to his passing. Like konolia said, a man DIED, just like we all will-- so Falwell has finally been presented with proof that he enjoys no special privelege over the rest of mankind. What there is of him is having its delusions to the contrary at long last stripped away. What's left of him beyond that is ours to tie tin cans to.
posted by hermitosis at 11:48 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


and what unreason said.
posted by amberglow at 11:49 AM on May 15, 2007


More irony...this is a pretty hateful thread.

Perhaps you could redeem it by listing some of the positive aspects of his life and work that make your view on him "a bit complicated".
posted by Armitage Shanks at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2007


More irony...this is a pretty hateful thread. Decrying a man you call hateful. So, is hate good if YOU are the one feeling it?

Well, I think you can argue that Luke wouldn't have been able to get Vader to come around if he hadn't just delivered a hate-fueled sabre beatdown.
posted by COBRA! at 11:50 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


konolia, the hug-fest is over here.
posted by mkultra at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2007


"What's left of him beyond that is ours to tie tin cans to." Beautiful.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2007


23skidoo, I agree with you, which is why I've been more or less quiet about this, apart from expressing vague condolences to his family.

I find it interesting, though, that even the people who are most upset by the supposedly hateful tone of this thread overall haven't been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man. I mean, yeah, Mefi does tilt toward the left, but we have a fairly diverse crowd here, and even Konolia can't come up with anything more than "He was an old man who died."
posted by infinitywaltz at 11:53 AM on May 15, 2007


23skidoo has a point: We've had "person X died, don't shit in their obit thread" MeTa discussions before. And yet, here we are, shitting in an obit thread.

You're assuming this is an obit thread, but just because someone has died that doesn't make the thread about their death an obituary or memorial. Better to think of it as a grave desecration thread, or a celebration of a happy accident.

Now, when Studs Terkel dies, that will be an obituary thread.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2007


:: He is now standing before his Maker and Judge.

I'm kind of amazed his parents are still alive! Must live cleaner than he did. (And what does Judge have to do with this?)
posted by lodurr at 11:54 AM on May 15, 2007


I'm at a loss to find the most vile, hateful thing possible to say.
posted by hellbient at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2007


More irony...this is a pretty hateful thread.

Isn't the term "irony" usually used to refer to things that are in some way surprising? Unlike this thread that mirrors Falwell's feelings toward most of us...
posted by lodurr at 11:55 AM on May 15, 2007


My sentiments, expressed as an interpretive dance.
posted by eisbaer at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2007


infinitywaltz writes "I find it interesting, though, that even the people who are most upset by the supposedly hateful tone of this thread overall haven't been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man."

That's because there's nothing positive to say about him. Not really the point, is it?
posted by brundlefly at 11:56 AM on May 15, 2007


For his family, I'm sorry for your loss.

For society as a whole, he won't be missed. He said and did a lot that I found personally offensive, and he didn't even manage to be all that interesting while he did it. I'm something of a fan of Crazy Holy Rollers (in an odd way), but compared to Aimee Semple McPherson, or even the Bakkers, he was downright dull.
posted by jonmc at 11:57 AM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


This isn't a hate-fest, it's catharsis. We're good people, and we don't hate anyone, we just love life all the more after they leave forever.
posted by hermitosis at 11:59 AM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Some of his legacy, even today:
Bush met with Dobson and conservative Christian leaders to rally support for Iran policy


That's rallying support for attacks and war, by the way.
posted by amberglow at 11:59 AM on May 15, 2007


Webbster, besides the ones I've mentioned above, Don Wildmon's nearly 70, James Dobson just turned 71, and I'm trying to think who else foams at the mouth* over GLBTs/Jews/lib'ruls. So far, though, they're all a bunch of 70something (or more) white guys.

----

*Billy Graham's nearly 90, but he's been the mild flavor.
posted by pax digita at 12:01 PM on May 15, 2007


More irony

What's more ironic than doing what Falwell did in the name of Compassion?
posted by Peter H at 12:02 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


IM SO EXCITED!!

I did a little dance of glee in my cube and have been smiling ever since. TY SKETTI MONSTAR!!<3
posted by Lizc at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Fascinating! Usually when someone I loathe on general principle dies, I end up finding out something positive about their personal life that I hadn't known before, and then I have a brief moment to think, "Wow, I really disagreed with that person's views, but he seemed like a truly decent person."

Digging around on Falwell, and what new heart-warming factoid do I discover? He was a big fan of segregation back in the day, and more recently a fan of apartheid in South Africa. Wow, what a fellow!
posted by infinitywaltz at 12:03 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]



posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2007


It's sad that he lived to be 73 instead of being stillborn aborted.

Thanks everyone, and especially Rev. Falwell, for making my day a little brighter.
posted by TedW at 12:04 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


What's the opposite of '.'? Because I'm doing that as hard as I can right now.
posted by empath at 12:05 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I am sorry that the died suddenly. I had always hoped he would die over the course of months from painful rectal cancer.

I God existed this is what would have happened.
posted by Megafly at 12:05 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Yet another hater who thought R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N was spelled H-A-T-E-F-U-L-A-N-D-D-I-V-I-S-I-V-E-P-O-L-I-T-I-C-S.

He could have done a lot of good, but chose not to.

But woe to you that are rich: for you have your consolation.Luke 6:24
posted by Benny Andajetz at 12:06 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


PEACE OUT, DOGG!
posted by smackwich at 12:08 PM on May 15, 2007


There were times that Dad's pranks bordered on cruelty. One of his oil-company workers, a one-legged man he nicknamed 'Crip' Smith, complained about everything. Dad and Crip's co-workers got tired of the old man's bellyaching and decided to take revenge. One morning Crip called in sick and Dad volunteered to send by lunch to his grateful but suspicious employee. Dad and his chums caught Crip's old black tomcat, killed it, skinned it, and cooked it in the kitchen of one of Dad's little restaurants. They called it squirrel meat and delivered it to Crip on a linen-covered tray. When Crip returned to work the next morning, Dad and his co-conspirators asked him how he liked his meal. They knew he would complain even about a free home-cooked lunch, and when Crip called it "the toughest squirrel meat" he had ever eaten, they were glad to tell him why.
http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/000403.html
posted by 2sheets at 12:09 PM on May 15, 2007


In my head, there's a little fantasy playing that Jerry Falwell, right now, is finding out that not only is God real, he's a big Ellen DeGeneres fan.
posted by EarBucket at 12:10 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I find it interesting, though, that even the people who are most upset by the supposedly hateful tone of this thread overall haven't been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man.

I heard that he never intentionally kicked a dog*, even though he had plenty of opportunities to do do.

*Excluding all those time when he intentionally kicked dogs.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:11 PM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


Dear God, I meant the other hypocrite with a history of heart problems. Ya know the bald one. Yeesh. -SG
posted by Skygazer at 12:12 PM on May 15, 2007


I find it interesting, though, that even the people who are most upset by the supposedly hateful tone of this thread overall haven't been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man.

The thing I found most repugnant about him was that unlike some Holy Roller types, who I could almost consider well-meaning uneducated people led astray or whatever, he seemed coldly calculating and ambitious and spewed his bile not from passion but from political shrewdness, which seems worse somehow.
posted by jonmc at 12:14 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


No dot for you.
posted by kimdog at 12:22 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Tammy Faye to speak about Fallwell on Larry King Live
posted by konolia at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2007


Tonight I am going to drink to Falwell's rotting corpse, and to his rotting away into irrelevance, and to the image of him finally achieving his eternal reward in the afterlife he believes in - watching from on high as us godless liberals hack away at the conservo-fundie-moralist institutions he worked so hard to create.

Someday abortion will be completely legal and safe and free of societal stigma, and everyone will be free to make life commitments as they choose with the full support of government institutions, and we will never have an energy crisis again because we'll be supplying electricity to the world with a generator hooked up to Falwell spinning in his grave.
posted by casarkos at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


You'll be correct? I'll be wrong?

Did I stutter?
posted by solid-one-love at 12:24 PM on May 15, 2007


I am happy to see that the so much more Christian Billy Graham, at 90, has lived to see this, as well as the terminally ill Tammy Faye. It is not irony.

And if there really were something positive about the man, konolia would have come up with it by now.
posted by wendell at 12:25 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'm wrestling with this.
Glad he is gone-- caused so much terrible pain.
But if I dance for joy, don't I become a little more like the motherfucker I so despise?
Thorny.
posted by Dizzy at 12:27 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Okay, okay. Now that that's all out of the way, what do you guys really think about him.
posted by The Straightener at 12:27 PM on May 15, 2007


I can't believe he outlived Richard Paul.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:28 PM on May 15, 2007


"Guys, a 73 year old man just died. He is now standing before his Maker and Judge"....or not...
posted by mygoditsbob at 12:29 PM on May 15, 2007


I'm kinda with muddgirl on this. I went and read all the horrible, unChristian shit he said about folk of my ilk (i.e. human beings). I did a little dance of joy (and felt guilty about it).

Then I thought: As you sow, so shall you reap.

May God have mercy on you, Jerry. You're gonna need it.
posted by rtha at 12:29 PM on May 15, 2007


I consider Falwell a mortal enemy. Not quite arch nemesis stature. But close.

It's seems over dramatic to claim to HAVE enemies but Falwell actively worked to undue and subvert just about every important value I know is necessary for a happy and free life - and all mostly for his own PERSONAL gain.

To say I feel sad about his demise would be untrue. To say I'm ecstatic would also be untrue. I am glad he is dead. But I'm not opening any champagne over it. In fact I'm rather depressed a person so unethical and hate filled could reach the stature he reached in the first place. And since that is possible it's also likely another scum bag has popped up in his place.
posted by tkchrist at 12:32 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]



posted by time to put your air goggles on! at 12:32 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


One down, thousands to go.
posted by nevercalm at 12:34 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Is this the first obit post that isn't filled with dots?

oh, wait, no it isn't..

But at least Saddam got some.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:35 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Larry Flynt wins.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:35 PM on May 15, 2007


Though I did not agree with Falwell, this is a hateful thread. Which I suppose is alright. Venting and all. Unless you are a Christian (that would be me, I suppose):

But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you (Luke 6:27-28).

Whether Falwell was a Christian, I'll leave that to you to judge.
posted by MarshallPoe at 12:35 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I presume there will be an autopsy? It will be interesting to read...
posted by A189Nut at 12:38 PM on May 15, 2007


I won't dance on his grave, but I think the world is a better place without Mr. Falwell. Relief, as boo_radley put it, is more in line with what I'm feeling.
posted by deborah at 12:41 PM on May 15, 2007


Can't say that I'm too broken up about this one.
posted by papakwanz at 12:43 PM on May 15, 2007


*
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 12:43 PM on May 15, 2007


So it goes.

Wait, wrong guy.
posted by Cookiebastard at 12:43 PM on May 15, 2007


I bet the ewoks are jamming out right now.
posted by mattbucher at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


I'd be somewhat joyful, as morbid as that would be, if his death actually meant an end to the hate-spewing assholery that made him and his ilk famous. Hopefully he won't be made into some sort of evangelical saint-figure, but I'm pretty sure his mantle will be taken up by some other guy who's got his panties in a bunch over Sodomites.

While I'm not dancing... I hope that, instead of seeing a tunnel and white light, he envisioned himself falling into the gaping maw of a huge Tinky Winky.
posted by CKmtl at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2007


Arianna Huffington comments...
posted by Mister_A at 12:45 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Jerry's on the news right now going down the Hershey highway in a Fjord Bronco and he's not wearing any underpants.
posted by doctorschlock at 12:46 PM on May 15, 2007


I'm not normally one to celebrate the death of those who are ideologically-opposed to me, but I think Jerry would have wanted it that way.
posted by turaho at 12:47 PM on May 15, 2007


Cookiebastard: So it goes.

Wait, wrong guy.


No. This time it's exactly right.
posted by 1f2frfbf at 12:47 PM on May 15, 2007


And what happened then...?
Well...in Lynchburg they say
That Falwell's small heart
Grew three sizes that day!
And the minute his heart didn't feel quite so right...

...He keeled over, his face full of fright.
And he thought of the gays! And the poor and unwell!
And he...

...HE HIMSELF...
Felt the irony as he shipped off to hell.
posted by pardonyou? at 12:47 PM on May 15, 2007 [12 favorites]


Fjord Bronco ???

Hilarious mistake or yet another interjoke I am not cool enough to know about?
posted by Mister_A at 12:49 PM on May 15, 2007


Whether Falwell was a Christian, I'll leave that to you to judge.

Falwell represents Christians in the same way that Osama Bin Laden represents Islam.

A vocal extremist minority that taints outsiders perceptions of the entire group.
posted by quin at 12:50 PM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


.
posted by Joey Michaels at 12:51 PM on May 15, 2007


√ -- posted by time to put your air goggles on!

Perfect!

√ - next?
posted by ericb at 12:51 PM on May 15, 2007


Fjord;

It's just a McKooky saying. Like Shake-n-Bake...and I yelped.
posted by doctorschlock at 12:52 PM on May 15, 2007


.
posted by caddis at 12:53 PM on May 15, 2007


I'm a bit surprised by so many people saying they wished that he would have suffered an extremely painful and prolonged death. He's gone; good. But wishing torture upon someone seems a bit much...

In fact I'm rather depressed a person so unethical and hate filled could reach the stature he reached in the first place. And since that is possible it's also likely another scum bag has popped up in his place.

This is sadly true.
posted by the other side at 12:55 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


"WHY DID THE LESBIANS DO THIS TO HIM?"

It was an accident, really. Somebody said he was a great big pussy and we all jumped him.
posted by hojoki at 12:55 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


Wonkette's on a roll: Tonight: A Very Special GOP Tribute To Jerry Falwell-
Oh, tonight’s Republican debate in South Carolina should be really good, as the 10 douchebags fall over each other trying to give the most praise to racist bag-of-shit Jerry Falwell, whose Jabba-like corpse is still warm yet comically unresponsive. ...

posted by amberglow at 12:56 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Usama Bin Ladin have a lot in common. Take the quiz and see if you can identify statements by each of these "leaders."
posted by amberglow at 12:57 PM on May 15, 2007


I hope he didn't suffer, the way he clearly wished suffering on others. Unnecessary pain is not to be wished upon anyone.
posted by dash_slot- at 1:00 PM on May 15, 2007


WHY DID THE LESBIANS DO THIS TO HIM?
posted by The Straightener at 11:33 AM on May 15


Because our last meeting occurred in April. It just happened to be on a day when both the hair clippers and the crockpot were broken, so we couldn't sit around giving each other mullets and eating lentil casserole. Plus, it was kind of a muggy day, so no one wanted to have sex.

Add to that the fact that it was a week or so before the WNBA season started. There wasn't really anything else on the agenda and we had the community center booked for two hours, so we had to punt.

It would have happened sooner, but we spent 2 weeks in process meetings and group sharing. (Man, you should see the dry erase board!) And, you know, then the WNBA happened.

Sorry.
posted by mudpuppie at 1:01 PM on May 15, 2007 [15 favorites]


I bet he was full of bees.
posted by doctorschlock at 1:02 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


I miss Tammy Faye already.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:04 PM on May 15, 2007


As a lifelong atheist, I've gotta say this news is the closest I've seen to evidence for the existence of a god.
posted by BoatMeme at 1:05 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Jerry-Falwell.com
posted by amberglow at 1:05 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


mudpuppie -- how many of 'ya'll arrived at the April meeting in Fjord Broncos?
posted by ericb at 1:05 PM on May 15, 2007


Fundamentally Oral Bill must have finally met his financial goal.
posted by dilettante at 1:07 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


The Rev. Jerry Falwell: he helped to make life suck. That's all the eulogy he deserves.
posted by solistrato at 1:09 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


This is the West Coast, ericb. We drive Subaru Outbacks with bumper stickers that say "Dog is My Copilot."
posted by mudpuppie at 1:09 PM on May 15, 2007


Oh, and for those who are complaining about the tone:

There are some people who are, in the end, worthy of nothing but hate and contempt. Falwell chose to devote his life to making this world, and the way we live, poisonous and toxic. Such a person deserves nothing more than to be despised.

Falwell worked hard to earn the anger exhibited in this thread. We're just giving him what he wanted.
posted by solistrato at 1:13 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm a bit surprised by so many people saying they wished that he would have suffered an extremely painful and prolonged death. He's gone; good. But wishing torture upon someone seems a bit much...

Well, intolerance breeds intolerance. When we see evil we typically respond in kind.

As far as Mr Falwell is concerned, I've always found it hard to see the love factor at work with him and he always seemed far to focussed on things 'of this world'.
posted by scheptech at 1:16 PM on May 15, 2007


For those who need something nice to say about him, I offer this: His albums are chock full of interesting sound bites that make for great bumpers when doing mixes. That there are no more on the way is sad. Then again, I've got a veritable plethora of the things and there's always more at the thrift store.
posted by Fezboy! at 1:18 PM on May 15, 2007


My tone is a dialtone and its a-buzzing with misinformation about whether Falwell was paid up on his cable bill or not.
posted by doctorschlock at 1:20 PM on May 15, 2007


Best thread ever. Sorry I missed it.
posted by fungible at 1:22 PM on May 15, 2007


I think its arguable that one that is truely religious, for any religion, cannot be a stern moralist, as they place rejecting evil as the focus of their religious practice rather than experiencing joy.

I really think its a shame that he never fully grasped that insight to the religious way of living. Yet however much I strongly disagree with his rejectful nature, I think this is tragic to happen to anyone, regardless of character. So RIP Jerry.
posted by samsara at 1:25 PM on May 15, 2007


As Moms Mabley observed about her husband:

You should only say good about the dead.

He's dead.

Good.

(278 comments about that can of lard? Ugh!)
posted by hexatron at 1:26 PM on May 15, 2007


Fjarewell, Fjalwell! May you fjind the piece in death you obviously never got in Ljife.
posted by Mister_A at 1:26 PM on May 15, 2007


Yay. That is all.
posted by nzero at 1:27 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I live in Virginia with Pat Robertson 10 miles to my left and Jerry Falwell 150 miles to my right. Already the buzzing in my head (and the static on my radio) has quieted down some.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the 700 Club bigwigs are already pow-wowing on how best to snake all the Liberty Baptist contributors. (It's expensive to run a mega-scam, uh, church.)
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:29 PM on May 15, 2007


I'm glad he's dead.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 1:29 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


McCain first out of the gate with Falwell condolences. "Dr. Falwell was a man of distinguished accomplishment who devoted his life to serving his faith and country." (McCain Says Jerry Falwell is No Longer an "Agent of Intolerance.")

MSNBC was fooled by this parody page and quoted praise from the parody on the air.

That's rallying support for attacks and war, by the way.
Maybe God told President Bush to attack Iran, like He did with Iraq.

posted by kirkaracha at 1:36 PM on May 15, 2007


Benny Andajetz writes "I live in Virginia with Pat Robertson 10 miles to my left and Jerry Falwell 150 miles to my right."

You're to the right of Pat Robertson? Hard core!
posted by brundlefly at 1:37 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Now he won't have to worry about all the sodomites and pagans.
posted by chunking express at 1:38 PM on May 15, 2007


I asked for that.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:38 PM on May 15, 2007


.

(anti-dot)
posted by datacenter refugee at 1:39 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


So, can someone get on top of putting together a video montage of his most hateful quotes, set to 'candle in the wind,' and putting it up on YouTube?

TIA
posted by blenderfish at 1:42 PM on May 15, 2007


According to their website (which I refuse to link to), the Phelps clan will indeed be "preaching" at his funeral. Oh, how I hope Fred P. is next...
posted by lodev at 1:42 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I donated $50 to the ACLU in his memory. it seemed only appropriate.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:48 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


DieHipsterDie: Vaya con dios fuckwad!
Dammit, why ya gotta make every thread about Dios?
obligatory
posted by hincandenza at 1:49 PM on May 15, 2007


Ben and Jerry have a new flavor: The Jerry Falwell
A sugarless white pastey gelitonous glob of ice milk.
Warnings: contains nuts and saltpeter.
posted by doctorschlock at 1:51 PM on May 15, 2007


√+
posted by LordSludge at 1:53 PM on May 15, 2007


So he was on the vanguard of the politicization of evangelical christianity in the 70s and 80s.

He was the patron saint of a group of people who are continually reminded that they are under attack from The Enemy (nevermind who this enemy is, suffice to say that the war is permanent), and who firmly believe, in the deepest and most sincere corners of their hearts, that all would be well, if only they were in charge.

He was one of the great demagogues of their movement, this ever-under-attack group who want power, influence, feeling that each one of them, though small and fragile and singular have plugged themselves into the Winning Team and will reap rewards for it.

He was one of the great hatemongers of this group, the more politicized each one in the group is, the more hateful they tend to be -- after all, are not the idealists, like all True Believers before them not comforted in the infallibility they feel when they renounce their critical thinking power to That Which Is Above? -- and the more frightened they also are of their chosen Other.

He was a forceful leader. Charismatic. Larger-Than-Life and hob-nobbing with the very rich and powerful who could grease the skids for their revolution to return their society back to some golden era that never actually existed, and they love him for it. You can see it over at Free Republic or LGF. He was their champion.

A champion for those for lust for power over others, who long for those very awful others to face retribution for their wrongs, a champion of bile and bitterness, champion of persecution, segregation, apartheid and punishment. He was the champion of a segment of society who is motivated out of nothing less than total, abject, paralyzing fear which was ingrained in them from the start, that fear of punishment eternal, and somehow, mainly because it is much more convenient and gratifying, they have their fear molded into a lust for power temporal.

If you believe in God, understand this: God will have nothing to do with this modern Pharisee, this venomous snake whose product was nothing more than bile and power pipe dreams. And those who followed him, those benighted dreamers who hang their hat on Avarice and call it Glory, well... God will have nothing to do with them, either. Unless and until they repent and learn what the message of the Gospel was truly about.

But for me, I don't believe in God. So all this man was was a fearmonger, a demagogue, one who padded his pockets and the pockets of hundreds of cronies on the backs of the poorest, most fearful group of believers who only wanted to feel a tiny part of the power of the winning side. And it is those people whom he has fleeced over the decades that I pity. For their hatred enabled his, which in turn spurred theirs on further. For their fear enabled his riches, and their desire for power which brooks no discussion has brought themselves into a deeper spiritual poverty than inhabited their coldest nightmares.

Would that all of the hatemongers, of any side, never achieve the status or the influence of Falwell. But I know better. Another head will sprout in his place. And they already have, with names like Reed and Dobson.
posted by chimaera at 1:53 PM on May 15, 2007 [25 favorites]


I bet he was full of bees.
posted by doctorschlock at 1:02 PM on May 15


The winnar.
posted by perilous at 2:00 PM on May 15, 2007


Revolting.
That's what Rev. stands for, right?
posted by keepoutofreach at 2:01 PM on May 15, 2007


That's a good point--especially for someone who purported to be moral and holy and godly and good, etc--and who tried to force his morals and religion on the rest of us. God wasn't on his side after all.

Interestingly enough, when bad things happen to folks like him, it's either a blessing in disguise or God sweeping them up into Paradise.

When the same thing happens to someone they don't like, it was punishment, and God was wiping the sinner off the face of the earth.

As a Christian who didn't like Jerry Falwell one iota, I hope I'm allowed to play that game too.
posted by katillathehun at 2:02 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Funny how that works out either way, no?
posted by amberglow at 2:05 PM on May 15, 2007


After breakfast he took the blue pill, and called for Chocolate. Chocolate never, ever came. The loss of half teaspoon of blood, called to duty, elsewhere; was more than his tiny heart could endure.

Pride is one thing, but pride in one's ignorance is hardly food for the spirit. In the spiritual desert, the starving he lured, ate it anyway, and called it good.
posted by Oyéah at 2:06 PM on May 15, 2007


www.fallwell.com
posted by mazola at 2:08 PM on May 15, 2007


Fuck him, fuck his followers, fuck his family who supported the bigoted bullshit he spewed. I'm not even a lesbian pagan abortionist with AIDS, but I still think he's a complete asshole and his death didn't come nearly soon enough.

I would've been happier if his head had been chopped off by a goddamn helicopter rotor. Heart attack is far too kind for an unrepentant asshole like this.

(I can hear my boyfriend now: "But tell us how you really feel, honey!")

There are some people who are, in the end, worthy of nothing but hate and contempt. Falwell chose to devote his life to making this world, and the way we live, poisonous and toxic. Such a person deserves nothing more than to be despised.

Amen to that.

Hell, I have better things to say about Hitler than Falwell.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:08 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


Wait, wait, I think I may have found something!

At least he kept the trains running on time.

Wait, that wasn't him?

Oh. Never mind, then.
posted by infinitywaltz at 2:11 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Singalong (clap on 2 and 4):

Oh happy day (oh happy day)
Oh happy day (oh happy day)

I just want to join the chorus. Fuck you Falwell. Guess your "God" couldn't save your sorry ass. Or didn't want to.

I'm writing this from Ohio, land of fuckwad fatso Christian bigots. I'm looking around to see if anyone seems sad. Nope, not yet. Let's see if I cheer real loud what happens.

Righteous! There are very few people I would rather see dead. I'm only sorry it wasn't more violent and prolonged.

You see, I don't think there's anything wrong hating on a hater. And on Christian haters generally.

Here's a true story that sums these people up. I heard it yesterday. A woman cheated on her spouse. Once. They have a little baby. She was distraught because her husband would not forgive her and insisted on a divorce. When asked by a friend of mine if there was any chance her husband might forgive her, her actual response was "No, he's too Christian to forgive me." And she wasn't kidding.

LOL. Says it all about what Americans call "Christianity."

Buhbye, fuckwad. Rot in your own hell, or in the ground, which is the same thing.
posted by spitbull at 2:11 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


That is sort of sweet.
posted by Sticherbeast at 2:12 PM on May 15, 2007


Yikes. "Love your enemies," indeed. Surely we could've taken the high ground in this thread, thereby making our moral superiority self-evident, no?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 2:13 PM on May 15, 2007


Oh, faint of butt-- you made my day. I am a little low on cash, so I'll just have to have sex in his honour.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:16 PM on May 15, 2007


I'm writing this from Ohio, land of fuckwad fatso Christian bigots. I'm looking around to see if anyone seems sad. Nope, not yet. Let's see if I cheer real loud what happens.

Me, too! Hence the vitriol! These stupid assholes know not what they do... they're the reason I pay 2x as much for my health coverage!
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:17 PM on May 15, 2007


"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)
posted by joe lisboa at 2:17 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


"I hope that in his heavenly trial, God assigns him ACLU lawyers."

The trial will have to be held much, much lower if you want to have lawyers in attendance.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:17 PM on May 15, 2007


Says it all about what Americans call "Christianity." I see spitbull's in good form!
posted by MarshallPoe at 2:18 PM on May 15, 2007


I remember seeing Falwell on Nightline many years ago. Whenever he knew the camera was on him, he had this forced smile on his face. At one transition, the camera caught him off-guard with a scowling expression. As soon as he recognized that the camera was on him his face snapped into the forced smile immediately.

Now, I know politicians and other public figures need to present a public face consistent with their desired image. Famously, Bill Clinton went into sad-face mode when the cameras caught him joking with companions at a funeral. But there was something oddly sinister about Mr. Falwell's quick transformation: like a Batman villain or something.

In any event, the observation that he hadn't had much influence over the last decade or so is sadly narrow. His Liberty University and affiliated law school have pumped out thousands of acolytes who staff organizations working to continue implementing his philosophy of Christian-justified bigotry.

Good bye, and good riddance to the man. But keep an eye out for those students.
posted by Mental Wimp at 2:19 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


www.fallwell.com

Brings to mind: JerryFalwell.com.
Court dismisses Falwell domain name case.

High court skips Falwell Web site case.

Falwell parody site preaches free speech.
posted by ericb at 2:21 PM on May 15, 2007


Good bye, and good riddance to the man. But keep an eye out for those students.

What, we can't burn them on the ship in a proper Viking funeral? Or bury them in the pyramid? Just tell them Mr. Falwell asked them to come along. Use cookies as a lure if you have to...
posted by bitter-girl.com at 2:21 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Do you who else had better things to say about Hitler than Falwell?
posted by flaterik at 2:22 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


You can see it over at Free Republic or LGF. He was their champion.

Can you link to some examples where Falwell was treated as a champion in LGF posts?
posted by Krrrlson at 2:22 PM on May 15, 2007


Yikes. "Love your enemies," indeed.

I don't love my enemies. As a matter of fact, I despise them, as much as they despise me.
posted by ericb at 2:24 PM on May 15, 2007



posted by rxrfrx at 2:30 PM on May 15, 2007


Think mosk's cube mate wins the thread:
As my cube mate said, "Wherever he is now, I'm sure he's surprised."
posted by mosk at 11:00 AM on May 1
posted by Cranberry at 2:32 PM on May 15, 2007


You see, I don't think there's anything wrong hating on a hater. And on Christian haters generally.

That's exactly wrong, imho. Hate the "sin", not the sinner. It's a lot better to point out WHY and HOW he was a despicable predicator, an hypocrite and a false prophet then just hate is guts and rejoyce of his death.

After all he is just a noticeable one among a stream of self righteous, blind faithed, exploiting asshole. It's an entire way of thinking that people must constantly be made aware of.
posted by elpapacito at 2:33 PM on May 15, 2007


His Liberty University and affiliated law school have pumped out thousands of acolytes who staff organizations working to continue implementing his philosophy of Christian-justified bigotry.

Bill Maher: "Now We Know Where They Get All The Screwups."
posted by ericb at 2:33 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


FWIW, I can safely say that I never had any thing negative to say about christians or people of faith before Falwell and those of his ilk decided to inject themselves into public policy.
You reap what you sow.
posted by 2sheets at 2:34 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Does this mean the rapture is starting?
posted by Bighappyfunhouse at 2:35 PM on May 15, 2007


Really, the most appropriate song for this occasion has to be this one, for many reasons...

"So long / We wish you well / You told us how you weren't afraid to die / Well then, so long / Don't cry / Or feel too down / Not all martyrs see divinity / But at least you tried"

Gay rock, woo. And one hell of a drummer.
posted by anthill at 2:37 PM on May 15, 2007


I'd really like to be like the guy from Sticherbeast's post. I'm not there yet. I am sure that Bishop Tutu, my favourite christian is.

Falwell rejoiced in the death and misery of others, but at least he admitted to the nasty, homophobic, rascist bigotry that is well disguised but implicit in much of the Christian Right. It's those who look nice (GW and Pickles Bush, Elizabeth Dole) that really frighten and enrage me.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 2:37 PM on May 15, 2007


I consider Falwell a mortal enemy...

Q.E.D.
posted by Sparx at 2:40 PM on May 15, 2007


elpapacito writes "It's a lot better to point out WHY and HOW he was a despicable predicator, an hypocrite and a false prophet then just hate is guts and rejoyce of his death."

How about both? We've got plenty of quotes here for which he should be hated, and plenty of hate for him.
posted by Bugbread at 2:46 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


A death like this is more tragic to me than that of a person who lived their life well , for others , or just to it's fullest. They at least can die knowing the fullness of life.

No one , not even J.F. knows what awaits us , if anything, beyond the vail.
But his time here is surely done, and what can you say for him?
In this thread at least nothing good. He is remembered here for the bad he did , and as others pointed out the bland way he did it.

He never got to just live. For J.F. there must always be a catch.

He lost his innocence to dogman, he lost his heart to fear, he was trapped by his own rhetorical devices.

How can one look out into the chaos of existance and find any peace at all with the cynical mind of J.F.

Mark Twain once said "To this day I cherish an unappeasable bitterness against the unfaithful guardians of my young life, who not only permitted but compelled me to read an unexpurgated Bible through before I was 15 years old. None can do that and ever draw a clean sweet breath again this side of the grave...."

Go to your rest now , be at peace at last , fractured creature, you need not lift the plow anymore.


.
posted by nola at 2:48 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
posted by docpops at 2:50 PM on May 15, 2007


Those who want to CELEBRATE HIS LIFE, please use this thread.

posting #166 on that thread seems to say that two days ago in church Falwell publicly asked the invisible man in the sky for fifteen more years on earth. Denied!! tee hee.
posted by longsleeves at 2:50 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


oh, and

*
posted by longsleeves at 2:51 PM on May 15, 2007


jerry falwell was a stupid cunt.
posted by dopamine at 2:55 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


.
posted by ism at 2:55 PM on May 15, 2007


Rot in hell, Jerry. I hope he suffered before he died. I piss on his grave.
posted by mike3k at 3:00 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Can you link to some examples where Falwell was treated as a champion in LGF posts?

Here you go:

Start here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> here -> and on, and on...

It's hilarious. If they're not congratulating Falwell for a good, honest Christian life, they're devouring anyone expressing a viewpoint to the left of John Birch that offers the mildest dissent or criticism of the creep.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 3:01 PM on May 15, 2007


evil has left the building
posted by 404 Not Found at 3:02 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I hope that Jerry Falwell enjoys sharing hell with all the gays and the coloreds.
posted by premiumpolar at 3:03 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


shine on, you crazy deutsch bagge.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:08 PM on May 15, 2007


Larry Flynt wins

True. And when you think about everything Larry's body has been subjected to - bullets, V.D., drugs - over the years that Fallwell's hasn't, doesn't the fact that Jerry keeled over first kind of make you think maybe there is someone up there running this show?
posted by Clay201 at 3:10 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


hatefilter
posted by quonsar at 3:10 PM on May 15, 2007


More....more...aha....that's it....more..yes..yes...more I tells ya.....more...yes..yes....more.... ahh....your hate will bring him back to life!
posted by doctorschlock at 3:13 PM on May 15, 2007


Then I'll split the difference...

., you intolerant waste of space...
posted by Samizdata at 3:13 PM on May 15, 2007


He was, of course, a monster.

What kind of man, let alone what kind of minister of the Gospel, ...

posted by amberglow at 3:17 PM on May 15, 2007


There haven't existed many people in this world who would go up against Larry Flynt and still come off looking like the asshole.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 3:26 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Ding dong the bigot is dead!
The dirty old bigot.
The self-rightous bigot.
Ding dong the dirty old bigot is dead!

Now if only he was the only monster that the children need to be afraid of...
posted by trigby at 3:27 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


You're all so gullible. The articles make no mention of garlic, holy water, decapitation, or stakes through the heart. Dude isn't dead, he's just hibernating.
posted by goatdog at 3:28 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


RIP, fake university degree-having, fake-university running, abortion rights-denying, Bible-misreading prick.
posted by Ricky_gr10 at 3:28 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


If you're a true believing Christian, this is good news, right? The great man has gone flapping up into the dazzling glory of his reward, right? So how come you're grieving? Doesn't quite make sense, does it?

In Doug Stanhope's words, "Did you hear the good news? Lightning hit my baby!"
posted by futility closet at 3:29 PM on May 15, 2007




To misquote Clarence Darrow: I've never killed a man, but damn this was a fun obituary to read.

I don't know how the ACLU pulled this one off, but I'm sending them a check to help cover any expenses they might have had.
posted by krakedhalo at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


I'm going to donate to the Freedom to Marry Coalition of Massachusetts in his name. Suck on that, jerkwad. With money given in your name, good people will continue the good fight to be treated as equal human beings.

Ah, that felt better. Anyone else want to chip in?
posted by bitter-girl.com at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Family Guy: Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson make out.
posted by ericb at 3:30 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm donating to Orcinus in his name with my next paycheck.
posted by amberglow at 3:33 PM on May 15, 2007


McCain Says Jerry Falwell No 'Agent of Intolerance' [April 2006]
posted by ericb at 3:35 PM on May 15, 2007


I really really really really hate to speak ill of the dead.



but I heard the Teletubbies are planning to dance on his grave
posted by Robert Angelo at 3:35 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


The flags outside Union Station in DC are at half-mast. Please tell me this is for someone else.
posted by naoko at 3:40 PM on May 15, 2007


He was a very angry man who spent his whole life lashing out.

Something very bad must have happened to make him that way.
posted by Jatayu das at 3:42 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


but I heard the Teletubbies are planning to dance on his grave

Along with Ace & Gary, Bert & Ernie, Big Gay Al, Buster the Bunny, Mr. Garrison, Pepperment Patty, SpongeBob SquarePants, Velma and Waylon Smithers.
posted by ericb at 3:42 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


One hatemonger down.
posted by Dasein at 3:44 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's almost as good as when Reagan died.
posted by serazin at 3:45 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Medieval Ceiling Cat is watching you all dance with glee. Just so you know.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 3:48 PM on May 15, 2007


I have to stop reading LGF whenever it's posted here. Whenever I stumble in there, I lose the next hour or so just reading with my mouth agape in wonder and amazement:

...He did more for the poor in the third world than anyone...

...One thing I'll say for Fawell, he was a good sport and he wasn't a wack-job nut like so many of his peers...

...before Falwell was even loaded onto the ambulance, the vitriol there was flowing like the yellow fluid down a liberals leg when you confront them with the truth...


Wow. Just... wow.
posted by quin at 3:49 PM on May 15, 2007


Good riddance to someone who was against all the best parts of my country.
posted by LobsterMitten at 3:50 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


He'll be back in 23 years.
posted by ericb at 3:51 PM on May 15, 2007


A glorious day, albeit many many years overdue.
posted by jonson at 3:56 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


The flags outside Union Station in DC are at half-mast. Please tell me this is for someone else.

They are half-staff since today is Peace Officers' Memorial Day
"NOW, THEREFORE, I, GEORGE W. BUSH, President of the United States of America, do hereby proclaim May 15, 2007, as Peace Officers' Memorial Day and May 13 through May 19, 2007, as Police Week. I call on all Americans to observe these events with appropriate ceremonies and activities. I also call on Governors of the United States and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, as well as appropriate officials of all units of government, to direct that the flag be flown at half staff on Peace Officers' Memorial Day. I further encourage all Americans to display the flag at half staff from their homes and businesses on that day."
posted by ericb at 3:56 PM on May 15, 2007


bwahahaha- fuck him.
posted by svenvog at 3:57 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Good riddance to someone who was against all the best parts of my country.

This thread is a patriotic celebration, you know. We should have an extra-special Fourth of July this year to mark that hypocritical, un-American slime's absence.
posted by dilettante at 3:59 PM on May 15, 2007


Out living those I despise is one of the best parts of getting older.
posted by Iron Rat at 3:59 PM on May 15, 2007


"I have to stop reading LGF whenever it's posted here. Whenever I stumble in there, I lose the next hour or so..."

Just done the same, quin.

The only joy is that they're all furiously reading this sort of stuff too and furiously reporting back!
posted by Jody Tresidder at 4:04 PM on May 15, 2007


Kurt Vonnegut died? Good riddance to a pathetic wretch.
posted by found missing at 4:06 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


If you're a true believing Christian, this is good news, right? The great man has gone flapping up into the dazzling glory of his reward, right? So how come you're grieving? Doesn't quite make sense, does it?

For the sane Christians, it's good news. CNN and Fox News will stop calling him for quotes.

OTOH, it's not good news, because it moves Robertson, Dobson, and Wildmon up one slot on their speed dial positions.
posted by dw at 4:10 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Please please people, let us not celebrate his death, but let us look back in sorrow on the 73 years of his life.
posted by blenderfish at 4:15 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


He was a very angry man who spent his whole life lashing out.

Might he have been in league with James Guckert/Jeff Gannon, Ted Haggard, Athur Finkelstein, Mark Foley, Matt Sanchez et al of this world? Denying his true self by obsessively denouncing that which he might be?

Parents Alert: Is Jerry Falwell Gay? ;-)
posted by ericb at 4:17 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


The sooner we forget about him, the better off America will be.
posted by Cochise at 4:21 PM on May 15, 2007


Someone has to bribe the funeral director to dress him in a TinkyWinky outfit. ; >
posted by amberglow at 4:27 PM on May 15, 2007


I understand Jack T. Chick is getting on in years...
posted by Tube at 4:35 PM on May 15, 2007


Places to donate in his bigoted name. Or Konolia's for that matter.

Garden State Equality
ACLU
People for the American Way
Human Rights Campaign
MassEquality

I also hadn't known he was a pro-segregation, pro-apartheid racist as well, so if anyone knows anti-race discrimination causes to donate to in his name, please add them.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 4:41 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Perhaps it is bad form to speak ill of the newly dead but.....

Good riddance.
posted by fenriq at 4:42 PM on May 15, 2007


...fake-university running,...

Well, wait a sec. If you're referring to Liberty University, you may despise the founder, but it's accredited, so how is it "fake"? You can transfer credits into and out of there. You can be eligible for state and federal financial aid there, just like most other religiously-oriented colleges and universities. Hell, even their law school graduates can take their bar exams.

(Now, as to how good a school LU is, well, that's a different argument. I won't say I wouldn't go there even if you paid me, but it'd have to include a hell of a nice stipend.)
posted by pax digita at 4:48 PM on May 15, 2007


Places to donate in his bigoted name. Or Konolia's for that matter.

Come on, now. Much as I tend to disagree with Konolia, if you feel the need to attack him, at least save it for a thread when he's said something nasty. Here he's just been saying we shouldn't crap all over a dead guy.

That said, two more organizations fighting what Falwell stood for, which I've plugged here before:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which anybody who believes in separation can get behind, and
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, which you probably won't like much unless you're a freethinker yourself
posted by gurple at 4:48 PM on May 15, 2007


She, actually. And you're right, my apologies. To Mefi and to her.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2007


Dancing on his grave before he's even in it is very uncool.

Bad form.

Does he deserve it? Maybe. Fortunately for me, I don't have to make that decision. Not my job. I'd rather let whatever-the-supreme-force-of-the-universe-is make that determination, if it even thinks it's worth its time to pass such judgment. What a thankless calling that must be, to judge every soul and carry out that judgment. Who would wanna do that? Why would a reality exist in which that was a necessary factor?

Hitler's soul is still being punished in some inaccessible point in reality somewhere, for the sole purpose of because it makes you feel better. Wow.

Now, Falwell's soul goes to join it. Does this honestly make you feel better about yourself and your place in the universe, to contemplate this? It don't do a hell of a lot for me, I can tell you that. At best it does nothing. At worst, it makes me a little sick to my stomach that some souls never get to learn from their mistakes and... well, this isn't about that. Is it?

Who would wanna go around and condemn the living and the dead who behave in ways counter to one's own? Honestly, "live and let live" takes a whole lot less energy. Look at what Fallwell did. Three hundred plus posts of us saying hangin's too good fer'm. You honestly feel better now? Doesn't that just make you as bad as he was? Oh, you DO feel better about yourself, then? ...okay. I'll work with that. Gimme a sec.

*drinks a glass of water*

Let me assure you, Falwell's death will not suddenly turn this into a world without zealots, bigots, and false prophets. They grow like weeds.

The world did not suddenly get a little lighter and brighter today because he's gone. Had he died some 30 or 40 years ago, before his influence spread internationally.. but the damage for which he was both directly and indirectly responsible, to America and the world, has already been done. His death today doesn't erase all the actions done with his assistance in the past quarter of a century or so.

It doesn't change the fact he has: Many listened. Many believed him. Many listened to him and he changed their minds, but in most cases, many listened to him because they already agreed with what he said, but he put the words together in ways that they could not. He was their voice.

He still is. Had he died back then, before people started listening to him... Well, probably someone else would have just filled the space. Falwell didn't create the sheep. They were looking for a wolf to lead them, and there are so many wolves out there.

Predator and prey. We call ourselves civilized. We lie to ourselves every day.

Falwell's death has less significance in the big picture than spit does to an ocean. As for Falwell's life? Well again, the damage has already been done.

Go on. Have your fun.

A man died today who is loved by millions.

Many of those millions have more money than you do.

Many of them vote.

Many of them have more influence in your community and they know how to use it.

His death has not stopped them.

Meanwhile, those of us who disagree with that mindset also disagree with one another.

We do not congregate in churches and read newsletters and share bible verses.

IF we ever congregate at all, we congregate in places like... here!

We read threads and take verbal potshots at anything that moves. We then consider ourselves better than 'them' yet 'they' are the ones running this country! Who's the sheep now?

Many of us do not vote, and when we do, we don't vote with other sheep - we each walk to the beat of our own exclusive drummer, so our voice isn't part of a choir.

Ours are feeble voices that get drowned out by those who have more influence in their communities and they know how to use it.

I am not saying I condone their behavior, nor am I condemning ours. I'm simply pointing out that while we have our fun, and poke sticks at an old dead guy, a megalomaniacal lunatic has his finger on the same nuclear button Ronnie Reagan did some 30 or 40 years ago, and both of these men listened to Jerry Fallwell.

They both wanted the book of revelations to come true. They're looking forward to it. Boom. Fallwell's death has not silenced their voice. It might even make it stronger.

Try to sleep better tonight with that knowledge.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:49 PM on May 15, 2007 [17 favorites]


I'm not like JD Salinger, I'm not like Jerry Falwell
I'm like Mario Andretti 'cuz I always drive my car well

Beastie Boys
posted by davejay at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2007


(Now, as to how good a school LU is, well, that's a different argument. I won't say I wouldn't go there even if you paid me, but it'd have to include a hell of a nice stipend.)

You can get a pretty good idea of how good a school Liberty University is by listening to the questions that its students (clearly prompted by their teacher) asked Richard Dawkins when he spoke there last year.
posted by gurple at 4:50 PM on May 15, 2007


She, actually. And you're right, my apologies. To Mefi and to her.

Heh. My apologies, too, (Ms.) Konolia.
posted by gurple at 4:51 PM on May 15, 2007


ZachsMind writes "Dancing on his grave before he's even in it is very uncool. "

Uncool according to whose definition of cool? And are there any arguments for why people should act in accordance with that person's definition of cool?

ZachsMind writes "You honestly feel better now?"

Yep.

ZachsMind writes "Doesn't that just make you as bad as he was?"

Nope.

ZachsMind writes "Who's the sheep now?"

Anyone who blindly follows anyone. Liberals who blindly follow other liberals are sheep. Conservatives that blindly follow conservatives are sheep. Some people in this thread are probably sheep. Some people in the LGF threads mourning his death are sheep. Expressing joy or sadness at his death doesn't indicate much about sheepness levels. Having power doesn't say much about sheepness levels. Having unified opinions and power doesn't. Being disparate and powerless doesn't. The word "sheep" is used to indicate "blind obedience", not "coordination", "power", "focus", "agreement", "infighting", or anything else.

Besides that, yes, what you say is true. His death is not a magic arrow that will make everything better. But nobody is saying that it is (or, at least, almost no-one). We're just happy that a hateful person is dead. Not happy because it represents some sort of drastic turn of events leading us into utopia. Just because he was a cock, and now he's not.
posted by Bugbread at 5:02 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


Hell, I have better things to say about Hitler than Falwell.
posted by bitter-girl.com


Yikes. Some perspective might be in order here. The man was perhaps Hitler-esque, but I daresay he didn't get anywhere near the rarefied climes of madness and evil of ole A.H. himself.

Really save some of that proactive hatred and bile for the thousands of future Falwell-Zombies graduating from Liberty U. and infiltrating politics and business.
posted by Skygazer at 5:12 PM on May 15, 2007


You know, you reap what you sow.

I was a bit taken aback by all the extreme vitriol on here, but then I realized that when you put so much hate and anger and intolerance out into the world, that that's what you're going to get back.
posted by MythMaker at 5:15 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


You can get a pretty good idea of how good a school Liberty University is by listening...when he spoke there last year.

Can you?

I noticed the lecture appears to have taken place at nearby Randolph-Macon Women's College, not at Liberty University. Any way to gauge how many LU students/faculty were in attendance? I guess since R-MWC is becoming Randolph College and going co-ed this fall, if we heard undergraduate-aged male attendees, they might've come from Liberty.

Fifteen minutes in, in the context of discussing atheists, Dawkins makes a joke evidently aimed at LU -- "It's obvious that in an intelligent, educated audience such as this university -- I stress, this university, since...." at this point, he's interrupted by to whoops and heartfelt applause. He continues, quipping, "Who was it saw fit to give them accreditation, I'd like to know?"

Considering some of the undergraduate classmates I knew at a university that's nationally pretty highly regarded, I don't know that I'd go condemning a school by the apparent intellectual caliber of its students at a lecture like this. I went to school with people who thought that El Paso was a state and that the US beat the Russians in World War II.
posted by pax digita at 5:15 PM on May 15, 2007


bugbread: The word "sheep" is used to indicate "blind obedience", not "coordination", "power", "focus", "agreement", "infighting", or anything else.

Blind obedience to power = sheep to the wolves.

If left to their own devices, the wolves and the sheep will ensure that the rest of us join Fallwell in the grave sooner rather than later. Or do you honestly think an extremist muslim jihad is just a hollow threat to cater to the extremist christians and jews? That this is some kind of harmless game they're playing with each other, and it won't affect us in the least?

When push comes to shove, it won't matter if we're liberal or aetheist or deist or pagan or christian-but-not-religious-like-the-sheep. Sheep are voting in and letting the Wolves run this country. What's that make the rest of us? Targets. Cannonfodder. Meatshields. That's what.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:16 PM on May 15, 2007


Funny enough, it's been cloudy all day, but as soon as I read the news and opened this thread, the sun started shining in my window. Maybe there is a God after all, and he's telling me that he's glad that Falwell is dead.

Or maybe it's just coincidence.
posted by wierdo at 5:16 PM on May 15, 2007


IF we ever congregate at all, we congregate in places like... here!

NO Sir, not always true. Few days ago I was in Rome in Navona's square manifesting in a demo in favour of _all_ kinds of families, professing that there isn't a better or a worse kind of love, all love is love. Few hours before a quite more massive demo was in S.Giovanni square, organized by the Church of Rome..manifesting in favour of family , attempting to paint family as a _catholic_ concept , describing homosexual couples as something that cannot be considered a family. Basically a demo against anything that isn't "family" as per popular tradition.

Obviously they are capitalizing on the well know, tradional "family" as a brand, mother, father and son. It's pure exploitation of emotion, getting emotive hostages..how DARE you speak NOT in favour of family..that means you must be speaking against ! You scum !

They are just saying them exactly what many want to ear..that they are special, nice and loved. Promises will abound, but as usual little will be done ..or tokens of gratitude that come with a less then visible price.

The little demo in Rome, in favour of ANY family , was understood by few , but was still less then zero. Its presence was noted and broadcasted. Yet attacking directly religious congregations only helps them pose as martyrs, oppressed by unspeakable evil !

The difficulty is not in finding religious people, but go through the shield of _blind faith_ and poor reasoning practice, so much encouraged by lowest commond denominator TV, incredibily idiotic and lacking school education.

A frontal approach wouldn't be good, as religious people are sometime conditioned to reject anything not-religious....alternatives aren't good either, one must speak their language, making comfortable truths unconfortable and lacking, showing hypocrisy and double talk in simple, accessible (but not stupid) displays.
posted by elpapacito at 5:21 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Jerry's in heaven now.

Good riddance you black-hearted, fearful, fake, sick-headed fucking char-stain of a piteously miserable excuse of a human being. You lived too long and too richly for your merits, you maliciously hateful greed-whore. I'm glad you're finally dead.

I only wish you had been hoisted on your own petard in some kind of hardcore gay sex scandal - because goddamnit it's so obvious you wanted it bad, and probably got it on the sly just the same.

If there's a Just and Kind Christian God, I sincerely hope he's currently and forever ass-raping you with a giant acid-spewing, fish-hook sequined, flaming chain-saw Godcock of death, you hateful, puny little shit.

Maybe, eventually, some day, you'll understand the amount of pain you dealt to the fucking world.

Konolia: This ain't hate. That's pity and outright disgust at the man and his life and his message. There's a huge fucking difference between disgust at an individual's ill-chosen actions and words and the kind of generic, unfocused prejudicial hate that Falwell preached. It's OK to judge individuals by their actions - it's not OK to hate entire subclasses of people. This is why you and other Christians just don't get it. For an example: I don't hate Christians. I just hate individuals who happen to be assholes. Whether or not they're Christian or Buddhist or plaid fucking purple has nothing to do with it. But being an asshole has everything to do with it.
posted by loquacious at 5:22 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I can't buy into all the hate, but I can surely feel some relief.
posted by pax digita at 5:26 PM on May 15, 2007


I hadn't realised Pakistan had appointed a new cricket coach yet.
posted by UbuRoivas at 5:39 PM on May 15, 2007


pax digita: I noticed the lecture appears to have taken place at nearby Randolph-Macon Women's College, not at Liberty University. Any way to gauge how many LU students/faculty were in attendance?

A lot of LU students (and, if I recall correctly, one prof) made it down and went up to the mike, and they all identified themselves as such.

I think Dawkins' comments about the caliber of the university, while harsh, were perfectly justified. LU supports Answers in Genesis and other young-earth creationist groups, and they teach creationism in their biology classes. I don't deny LU's ability to crank out lawyers who pass the bar exam, but they don't do what I'd call education.
posted by gurple at 5:44 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Mythmaker:
I was a bit taken aback by all the extreme vitriol on here, but then I realized that when you put so much hate and anger and intolerance out into the world, that that's what you're going to get back.
In the words of the Beatles, "And, in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make."

Demonstrated in spades here.
posted by Flunkie at 5:46 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


Wow. I'm sure this has been said before...I do not have time to even skim 400 comments...but...the dude's dead. Sure he made some incredibly stupid, un-Christian, and prejudicial statements while alive, but what's the point of piling on a dead guy?

Too much, too late.

Work on the other ignorant preachers...although it's probably a lost cause.

Feed the hungry?
posted by kozad at 5:51 PM on May 15, 2007


Well, here's Larry Flint's take:
Upon hearing of his death, Flynt released the following statement to Access Hollywood:

"The Reverend Jerry Falwell and I were arch enemies for fifteen years. We became involved in a lawsuit concerning First Amendment rights and Hustler magazine. Without question, this was my most important battle – the l988 Hustler Magazine, Inc., v. Jerry Falwell case, where after millions of dollars and much deliberation, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled in my favor.

My mother always told me that no matter how much you dislike a person, when you meet them face to face you will find characteristics about them that you like. Jerry Falwell was a perfect example of that. I hated everything he stood for, but after meeting him in person, years after the trial, Jerry Falwell and I became good friends. He would visit me in

California and we would debate together on college campuses. I always appreciated his sincerity even though I knew what he was selling and he knew what I was selling

posted by konolia at 5:54 PM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


I just flipped through MSNBC and CNN and they are playing sad music and talking about the "great loss".

Oh, cool — I love spoonerisms!
posted by rob511 at 5:57 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


Until I saw some clips of Jerry tonight, I'd forgotten just how smug he appeared, with that condescending cat-ate-the-canary smile, which he always wore when explaining how anyone who didn't believe what he did was condemned ro eternal toment.

He gave this impression he thought he was better than, manifestly self-evidentially better than, the disgusting fags and trouble-makin' Negros and dirty hippies and frigid feminists and depraved pagans and conninving Socialists he condemned for not accepting the Love of Jerry's Christ.

As if he wanted you to know Jesus and Jesus's Love was a product designed and produced and marketed by Jerry and Jerry only.

As if Jesus's sacrifice on the Cross wasn't freely given all humanity's redemption, but just for those Jerry designated. I mean, if the central difference between Protestantism and Catholicism is personal redemption not mediated by a Pope and a hierarchy of priests, it's almost like Jerry wasn't a Protestant, but had appointed himself his own TV-channel Pope.

Or maybe it was, that (if, as Martin Luther repeatedly emphasized, the central vision of Christianity is Christ crucified) Jerry Falwell seemed too smug, too angry, too vindictive, too gleefully anticipating everyone he opposed roasting in Hell. Too insistent on asserting his superiority to be humbly Christ-like. Too busy cultivating influential men and consolidating temporal power and collecting cash to spend much time living a Christ-centered life. Too busy hating to live in Christ.

Maybe the answer is that Jerry Falwell just wasn't, when it comes right down to it, a Christian.
posted by orthogonality at 5:59 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


I say, as we all mourn his passing, that we cheer ourselves up with a rousing round of drunken goat sodomy! Go liberals!
posted by SassHat at 6:03 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Go on. Have your fun. A man died today who is loved by millions.

And despised by just as many more millions.
posted by ericb at 6:06 PM on May 15, 2007


Falwell's legacy: faith, hate or Teletubbies?
posted by ericb at 6:08 PM on May 15, 2007


Maybe the answer is that Jerry Falwell just wasn't, when it comes right down to it, a Christian.

Will you stop softshoeing? Christ would have worn this man's bloated, fatty spleen like a backpack and danced gaily in his gizzards and sweetmeats!

It would be the only loving thing to do!
posted by loquacious at 6:08 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


gurple: Did you notice that not everyone identified himself? And don't you think it was somewhat disingenous, if not merely sloppy, not to point out yourself the locale of the lecture?

I won't argue against LU's perception as less than a shining beacon of academic excellence or the mindset of many -- maybe all? -- of its students and faculty. I had some friends in nearby Bedford who knew faculty from R-MWC and Roanoke U., and they were pretty disparaging of the place. You could walk out of there understanding evolutionary theory, but you'd be performing an act of intellectual levitation. A kid who grew up in a fundamentalist church and household and then went to LU wouldn't have his/her world view challenged much. But then, that's true of many kids I was around at Texas, too, and nearly a quarter century on, I barely reflect anymore on the endemic lack of critical thinking that some people might think is limited to Bible colleges -- it's everywhere, and we have the Administration to prove it.

Like I said: It'd have to be a damned big stipend. (And I'd be pretty careful about picking my major, too.) But, hell, as a Christian who has no problem with anything I've read in studying science, I got past this sort of intellectual ghettoization a long time ago, so I'd be fine there.
posted by pax digita at 6:11 PM on May 15, 2007


"Where's your messiah now, nyahhhh?"
posted by govtdrone at 6:11 PM on May 15, 2007


"Where's your messiah now, nyahhhh?"

puerile
posted by caddis at 6:14 PM on May 15, 2007


Goat sodomy is so 1980. How about donkey sodomy?
posted by ZachsMind at 6:15 PM on May 15, 2007


Some more choice Falwell quotes:
“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”

“If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being”

“Textbooks are Soviet propaganda”
posted by ericb at 6:16 PM on May 15, 2007


Reading this thread, there are lots of horrible statements about JF (“Fuck JF” “I hope he suffered” “I hope he’s roasting in Hell”, etc.) FOX news ran a very spiteful and condescending obituary piece on Kurt Vonnegut after he passed away, and I was really incensed that they stoop to such levels—attacking a man who’s dead, who can’t defend himself. I certainly don’t think any major news outlet should run such a hit piece on Falwell, but it brings me to the question: what were his positive accomplishments? Founding a church and raising a lot of money isn’t an accomplishment, not if you’re getting an obit on the evening news. So what? What did he do? I’m sure his church raised money for charities here and there, but Jerry Falwell was simply a TV preacher who said outrageous things.

I detested his philosophy and his warped Christianity, but let’s save the “roasting in Hell” comments for the folks who truly deserve it (Hitler, Stalin, the VT shooter, Saddam Hussein (yes, my fellow liberals, even him), etc.), the people who have actually pulled the trigger. Maybe Falwell had people rubbed out, or he liked to boink little boys, but I’ve never heard of it. He actually seemed to be scandal-free.

For his loved ones, I offer condolences. For those who listened to his words and thought he was right when blaming 9/11 on lesbians and the ACLU, or when he supported segregation and apartheid, or when he said Tinky-Winky was gay—if you heard him say these things this and nodded your head in agreement…then screw you.

And yes, the world is just very slightly a better place now that he's gone.
posted by zardoz at 6:23 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


"Blow them all away in the name of the Lord."
posted by jefbla at 6:28 PM on May 15, 2007


.




sike, fuck that guy. I don't wish death on anybody, but that don't stop me from rejoicing when someone like him bites the dust.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 6:28 PM on May 15, 2007


ericb: They are half-staff since today is Peace Officers' Memorial Day

Oh, duh. I even knew that was going on today, but didn't make the connection because I'd been so Falwell-focused all day. I feel much better now, thanks.
posted by naoko at 6:29 PM on May 15, 2007


zardoz: ...if you heard him say these things this and nodded your head in agreement…then screw you.

Um, how is that statement about people you've never even heard of any different than a bunch of people here saying 'Fuck JF?'
posted by NationalKato at 6:31 PM on May 15, 2007


It's hard to say something nice about the man.
posted by rougy at 6:31 PM on May 15, 2007




and Fred Phelps can't be next: can't you see he's an Undead?
posted by RedEmma at 6:32 PM on May 15, 2007


I don't celebrate the deaths of others as a rule, and I won't break that rule for Falwell. But neither will I pretend that he was a good person, he wasn't.

Jerry Falwell was one of the bad guys. Plain and simple. He preached hate, and who knows how many people have been beaten or murdered by thugs roused by his words. He was one of the bad guys, and while I won't celebrate his death I won't deny that the world is better off without him.
posted by sotonohito at 6:41 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Jerry Falwell isn't dead until Bill Frist says he's dead.
posted by swell at 6:46 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


I am off to donate my $50 to the Human Rights Campaign and another $50 to PFAW.

One less voice of hate in the world... someone's prayer got answered today!
posted by FauxScot at 6:49 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Actually, ZachsMind wins.
posted by zardoz at 7:00 PM on May 15, 2007


here sits one happy Virginian. did a little happy dance upon hearing the news!
posted by tarantula at 7:11 PM on May 15, 2007


"We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant." -- Karl Popper
posted by NucleophilicAttack at 7:13 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


me, earlier: Hell, I have better things to say about Hitler than Falwell.

Yikes. Some perspective might be in order here. The man was perhaps Hitler-esque, but I daresay he didn't get anywhere near the rarefied climes of madness and evil of ole A.H. himself.

Oh, I dunno. Hitler was a pretty good public speaker, if you ignore what he was actually saying. Hey wait! You could apply that to Falwell and his cronies, too!

Really save some of that proactive hatred and bile for the thousands of future Falwell-Zombies graduating from Liberty U. and infiltrating politics and business.

Have done, and will continue to do.

Boyfriend says Falwell not dead, just hiding out with Ken Lay.

Maybe the answer is that Jerry Falwell just wasn't, when it comes right down to it, a Christian.

Gee, you don't say. Here's my thing -- I feel perfectly justified in despising the sort of people who'd like nothing better than to see me, my friends and the liberal values we espouse ended by fiat. I actively work against their wicked deeds politically wherever I can, I call them out on their bullshit, and yes -- I take more than a little glee when one of them takes a fall, be it a Jeff Gannonish debacle or outright dirt napdom. They do the same towards our side. It's childish, perhaps, but the difference between Them and Us is that we're not trying to legislate their right to be crazy in their own special way out of existence, but they'd like nothing more than to see us libruls rounded up into camps.

Boyfriend: "That, and we don't believe that dinosaurs died because they missed a ride on Noah's Ark."

Casa bitter-girl.com hath spoken.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 7:20 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Sounds like your boyfriend needs to pay his own $5
posted by Balisong at 7:27 PM on May 15, 2007


He actually seemed to be scandal-free.

Perhaps your definition of scandal differs from others ...
posted by bhance at 7:36 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


"It's OK, allow yourself a little hate. Hatred is not so bad when directed at injustice"- Fat Mike
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 7:39 PM on May 15, 2007


Horrible man, horrible, disappointing thread.

Sure didn't like Jerry Falwell, and I sure I don't like you people much sometimes.


No, hate is neutral when you're hating someone who is guilty. It's bad when you hate someone who is innocent.

This is sophomoric and indefensible, philosophically. Try harder, man.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:47 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


zardoz: "Actually, ZachsMind wins."

I wasn't aware this was a competition, but gee thanks!

And I have to admit I kinda agreed with Fallwell about Tinky-Winky. I mean it carried around a man-purse, for crying out loud, and had a triangle for a toupee. I disagreed with the 'bad for kids' part, but come on! You have to admit Tinky's gay, or maybe just transgendered. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

We've gotta be pushing close to four hundred posts right now, so I'm going to attempt to derail this thread with flowcharts!
posted by ZachsMind at 7:48 PM on May 15, 2007


Jerry's in heaven now.

Loq. I'd like to agree with you. The image of JF getting what I think is coming to him is something that brings a skip to my cold, lifeless heart. But when I look at it closer, I dont' like it.

Falwell was a certain breed. A breed we have come do know, and one that Bill Hicks observed "likes sitting in a bathtub getting pissed on by young boys." There is no depraved kink I would feel uncomfortable attributing to Jerry Falwell. "Ass-raping you with a giant acid-spewing, fish-hook sequined, flaming chain-saw Godcock of death, you hateful, puny little shit." Is just something I think he'd like too much to be a worthy punishment.

What I'd like to see him get is what he preached. Eternal bliss. Nothing else forever and ever and ever. Whatever sick private shit got him off in the dark of night, it's not coming his way where he's gong. Nothing but hosanas at hallelujas where he's going. And he can't complain about it because he fucking said it was heaven.

You go hang out with the lion made of eyes and constantly bow to the lamb Jerry. I'll be hanging out with the guys who write good music.
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 7:51 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


His corpse should be sprouting portabello mushrooms any day now.
posted by CynicalKnight at 7:57 PM on May 15, 2007


Good riddance to bad company. Falwell was bad for our society; we are better off without him.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:06 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


The Great Satan, Iblis, Lucifer, etc . is indeed a grand trickster. Some don’t think he exists, some worry about him far too much and generally under false pretenses. In some cases, he uses certain exceptional cases of the latter for a mouthpiece to deliver a message of hate and confusion. Some swallow the message uncritically and adopt that hate as their own (in most cases the hate was already existant but the manner in which it was articulated helped to germinate it). Others reject Satan’s message of hate from his unwitting mouthpiece, but in doing so they capture some of that same vitriol and repurpose it as hatred towards the messenger. Transposed hate, but hate all the same. Either way, Satan has a good meal.

Learn to starve your inner devil.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:16 PM on May 15, 2007 [4 favorites]


Burhanistan: fiddlesticks.

Falwell spent his life promoting evil, credulity, callousness, selfishness, bullying and hate at the expense of the powerless, and at the expense of the souls of the people who followed him. He was a bad man who did bad works. He actively worked, and convinced others to actively work, to make the world a worse place.

If we can't say good riddance to him, then we can't say any true thing.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:22 PM on May 15, 2007 [5 favorites]


Since I doubt anyone could maintain a dialogue across a 400+ post thread, I take the liberty of reposting elpapacito at some length:
After all he is just a noticeable one among a stream of self righteous, blind faithed, exploiting asshole. It's an entire way of thinking that people must constantly be made aware of.
posted by elpapacito at 2:33 PM on May 15


I disagree, and I just saw Christopher Hitchens, who normally doesn't impress me, say this with awesome eloquence and force on CNN, and people who knew Falwell confirm it frequently in other interviews, with a few exceptions (like Franklin Graham): Falwell was a cynical huckster, not a sincere man of faith. He was in it for the power and the fame and the money, not because he felt he had a contribution to make to humanity. He didn't much like humanity, which is why he thought he could be so inhumane. He didn't just hate gays, but hating them was the most effective way for him to build an empire of hate, the easiest target he could take down, though he also made efforts to build hate for women in general, Jews, liberals, atheists, scientists, and many others. He was a cynic on a grand scale.

He makes Rev. Graham the elder look like St. Augustine, and that's really something.
posted by spitbull at 8:24 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I am going to go out on a limb here and state publicly that tomorrow I will probably wake up feeling guilty about celebrating a man's death. He probably meant well, he probably was a nicer man than the sound bites that this secular humanist was spoon fed made him out to be. I realize his death isn't going to change anything. In the end, most of the people dancing on his grave today will let reason and compassion win out. That's what we, people roundly condemned by people like Falwell, always do. We aren't the ones *actually* beating to death our enemies. We aren't the ones trying to legislate our peculiar brand of religion into public schools to brainwash other people's kids. No, we laugh about what an ignorant fat slob this man was and tomorrow we work to protect the rights of ignorant fat slobs everywhere because we understand we're all in this world together now and we're all going to die one day alone.

But it's been a pretty dark 6 years. Falwell is the focal point of a lot of pent up frustration and represents so much that is wrong with the world (not just America) whether he deserves it or not. In some very tiny way, for just a few hours, sharing my disgust at this convenient target's life and my happiness at his death, in a thread on a website read by a few hundred people, soothes the pain. The pain of knowing my tax dollars are used to to torture innocent brown people, the sorrow of my gay friends' and family members' oppression, the sadness that fear always seems to win out over hope in this country. Today, I am not sorry about how I feel.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:28 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


sometimes bad things happen to bad people
posted by Hands of Manos at 8:34 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


Huh. Fallwell died. well...this thread is kind of embarrassing.

hatefilter indeed.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 8:34 PM on May 15, 2007


hatefilter indeed.

so... how bad does one have to be before it's PC to rejoice at that person's death? can we get a concrete answer for next time?
posted by rxrfrx at 8:38 PM on May 15, 2007


You know, it's strange. I was just talking to my wife about this kind of stuff. We're both Christians (albeit relatively wonky liberal ones who have to expend a lot of energy not to go appoplectic with rage when we talk to/hear/see evangelical crap).

One of the most frustrating things in dealing with people like Falwell is the sense that one will never get through to them. They will just keep on cruising along, convinced they are the righteous defenders of goodness while they grind other people to dust and sow hatred.

Christians generally believe in the concept of "Judgement Day," and with that comes a pretty standard image of all "hidden things" being revealed. Most people tend to talk about that like it's an exposure of dark secrets: suddenly, everyone will know about that time you stole a candy bar in the third grade, etc. But I think the more profound idea that's lingering there is that true judgement is Jerry Falwell's eyes being opened to the nature of what he truly did while he was alive. Being forced to truly grasp and understand the magnitude of his actions, the terrible impact he had on the lives of people in our world.

He believe he was right, and we clearly believe that he wasn't. When the grim reaper comes, all the self-deception in the world won't keep someone from the truth of who and what they really are.
posted by verb at 8:39 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


Learn to starve your inner devil.

it's not just what hate does to other people that makes it wrong ... it's what it does to us
posted by pyramid termite at 8:52 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


i thought you guys didn't believe in hell and the devil and all that stuff.

"so... how bad does one have to be before it's PC to rejoice at that person's death? can we get a concrete answer for next time?"

don't rejoice in death. it's morbid and unhealthy. this whole place is very lord-of-the-flyish tonight. Jerry Falwell was a truly horrible, misguided person, but I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around, poking his lifeless carcass with sticks.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 9:15 PM on May 15, 2007 [2 favorites]


You know what would really piss ol' Falwell and his followers off?
Love him.
Forgive him.
Hope he has a better understanding "up there" or "down there" or "next time".
Wagon. Fixed.
posted by Dizzy at 9:20 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around, poking his lifeless carcass with sticks.

If you found a body the size and shape of Jerry's floating in a pond, how could you NOT poke it? The eight year-old inside of me can see the gloriously disgusting balloon a carcass like that would make. Christ, looked like a floater when he was alive!
posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 9:30 PM on May 15, 2007


I wholeheartedly agree with everyone about the evil effects this man had on our culture, but I have some emotional defect that prevents me from hating him. "No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. . . .Any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind." Opposing his Moral Majority got me involved in getting out the vote in my town.

And as a man who was pretty much the opposite of Falwell wrote, "There's only one rule that I know of, babies - 'God damn it, you've got to be kind'"
posted by Hello Dad, I'm in Jail at 10:10 PM on May 15, 2007


Fuck, if I hadn't been out all day celebrating the news, I could have farmed hella favorites.



F u c k   D e c e n c y :    B u r i n   H E L*.


don't rejoice in death. it's morbid and unhealthy. this whole place is very lord-of-the-flyish tonight. Jerry Falwell was a truly horrible, misguided person, but I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around, poking his lifeless carcass with sticks.

No, it really isn't. What's really morbid and unhealthy is the bizarre western (chiefly American) tradition of deifying the dead, of frowning upon a true accounting of one's life, or of, at least, trying to hide away or filter as much of the raw emotion surrounding death--both positive and negative--as possible, in some misguided attempt at decency.

Falwell was a hateful, greedy, stupid man who made the world worse for countless people. He's dead. Yay! Yay! This isn't cheering at the death of a good person that I happen to disagree with. This isn't Joe Pastor down at the local church who dedicates his life his teachings, to helping the downtrodden and trying to make the world a better place. That's respectable, regardless of my personal beliefs about spirituality. We're talking about a man that spewed despicable, hateful vitriol against all manner of people, who preyed upon the fears and insecurities of others to build an enormous empire of capital and power. This is, in short, a man that really isn't worth the effort it would take me to saunter over to his grave to take a piss.

We're better off.
posted by The God Complex at 10:40 PM on May 15, 2007 [6 favorites]


but I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around, poking his lifeless carcass with sticks.

not my style, really, but I understand the motivation, so I don't feel the need to be a concern troll about it. No harm no foul I guess.

Much like how Hitler didn't (literally) kill anyone, it wasn't Falwell that did the damage to this country, it was all his idiot supporters, so the passing of the man doesn't mean a whole lot to me.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 10:40 PM on May 15, 2007


so... how bad does one have to be before it's PC to rejoice at that person's death? can we get a concrete answer for next time?

It's never politically correct to rejoice at a person's death, because we are all beautiful and unique threads in the tapestry of humanity, each with our own special contribution to make, blah blah blah.

If you're asking when it's okay on Mefi to rejoice at a person's death, I think the answer is "somewhere between Jack Valenti and Jerry Falwell."

I think we've definitely established a safe harbor here, though. Even the usual 'hey now, let's be nice' people didn't really show up for like 12 hours.
posted by blenderfish at 10:45 PM on May 15, 2007


i'm late to the thread, but wooo hooo!
if he comes back in three days, you're all gonna be sorry!
nah, he isn't coming back. wooo hooo!
posted by bruce at 10:45 PM on May 15, 2007


Even the usual 'hey now, let's be nice' people didn't really show up for like 12 hours.

And the thread's got more than 400 comments, and no one has been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man.
posted by infinitywaltz at 10:49 PM on May 15, 2007


And the thread's got more than 400 comments, and no one has been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man.

He once went down a waterslide fully clothed. It's considered by some to be a great example of photojournalism.
posted by now i'm piste at 10:58 PM on May 15, 2007


Toxic waste has to be buried in special drums. I'm guessing that they will be using the extra-extra-large sized drum in this case?

Or should they render his fat, make soap, and try to clean up some of the mess he left behind?
posted by sparkzy at 10:58 PM on May 15, 2007


And the thread's got more than 400 comments, and no one has been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man.

To the best of my knowledge, he never tortured any kittens to death.
posted by UbuRoivas at 11:07 PM on May 15, 2007


Toxic waste has to be buried in special drums.

OK, I'm having Return of the Living Dead nightmares tonight. Thanks.
posted by fleetmouse at 11:30 PM on May 15, 2007 [1 favorite]


infinitywaltz writes "And the thread's got more than 400 comments, and no one has been able to come up with anything positive to say about the man."

Again, there's nothing positive to say about him. Unlike him, I am a decent human being, so I won't degrade myself be celebrating the death of another person.
posted by brundlefly at 11:33 PM on May 15, 2007 [3 favorites]


"Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them."

the image that springs to mind here is a grown man having sex with his prostitute wife, but all her clients are teenagers (not "grown men") so everything is fine... or is that not how he meant it?
posted by russm at 11:36 PM on May 15, 2007


"To the best of my knowledge, he never tortured any kittens to death."

I'm kind of a dog person, so I don't know if I can count that... but then I'm a recently converted lolcatian, so I'm torn.
posted by ZachsMind at 11:39 PM on May 15, 2007


To the best of my knowledge, he never tortured any kittens to death.

I hate cats, those foul things I'm allergic to that must be destroyed.

So, this just doesn't warm my heart.

He once went down a waterslide fully clothed. It's considered by some to be a great example of photojournalism.

OK, I think we can accept this as a positive.

Also: He never slept with Paris Hilton.
posted by dw at 12:01 AM on May 16, 2007


Falwell is in ur hell, suckin ur satan cock.
posted by newfers at 12:06 AM on May 16, 2007


I see
and I hear
and I speak no evil;
I carry
no malice
within my breast;
yet quite without
wishing
a man to the Devil
one may be
permitted
to hope for the best.

Piet Hein
posted by hades at 12:17 AM on May 16, 2007 [3 favorites]


I think this is the first time I read a headline about somebody dying and it put a smile on my face.
posted by Mijo Bijo at 12:22 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Also: He never slept with Paris Hilton.

That was mainly a huge positive for Paris, though. I wouldn't inflict him even on her, and that's saying a lot.
posted by watsondog at 1:03 AM on May 16, 2007


He never worked for the Bush Administration. Oh, wait...
posted by chuckdarwin at 1:12 AM on May 16, 2007


He was a human being.
posted by pracowity at 1:26 AM on May 16, 2007


UbuRoivas writes "To the best of my knowledge, he never tortured any kittens to death."

No, but he considered it a "prank" only "bordering" on cruelty when his father killed and cooked a crippled employee's cat, to serve to the unsuspecting and ill owner

From Strength for the Journey: An Autobiography by Jerry Falwell (1987, Simon and Schuster), pp. 49-50: (as quoted here):
There were times that Dad's pranks bordered on cruelty. One of his oil company workers, a one-legged man he nicknamed "Crip" Smith, complained about everything. Dad and Crip's co-workers got tired of the old man's bellyaching and decided to take revenge. One morning Crip called in sick and Dad volunteered to send by lunch to his grateful but suspicious employee. Dad and his chums caught Crip's old black tomcat, killed it, skinned it, and cooked it in the kitchen of one of Dad's little restaurants. They called it squirrel meat and delivered it to Crip on a linen-covered tray. When Crip returned to work the next morning, Dad and his co-conspirators asked him how he liked his meal. They knew he would complain even about a free home-cooked lunch, and when Crip called it "the toughest squirrel meat" he had ever eaten, they were glad to tell him why.
Of course, that's what Jesus would do, too.
posted by orthogonality at 1:30 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


I don't know, cat's not Kosher is it?
posted by matteo at 1:47 AM on May 16, 2007


orthogonality, that story almost made me vomit some cheerios into my mouth. Are you sure you weren't reading a Chuck Palahniuk story?

Cheers!
posted by chuckdarwin at 1:52 AM on May 16, 2007


pracowity writes He was a human being.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you to prove that claim.
posted by chuckdarwin at 1:53 AM on May 16, 2007


A prank? Bordering on cruelty?

So, what would Falwell have considered real cruelty? Cooking the man's pet alive?
posted by sebastienbailard at 1:57 AM on May 16, 2007


dw writes He never slept with Paris Hilton.

I'm afraid I'm also going to have to ask you to prove that claim. Oh, wait.

Never mind.
posted by chuckdarwin at 1:58 AM on May 16, 2007


Yeah, it's sick sick sick. Old one-legged man, cat's probably his only friend, probably for years. His only companion, the only living thing the old man unburdens himself and talks to in his lonely existence.

They not only get him to eat it, but as his co-workers and boss relish telling him the next day and witnessing his horror and despair that he was duped into eating his only pet.

What's the guy going to do? Suck it up and keep his job working with sadists and sociopaths, or slug his boss and end up an unemployed one-legged pensioner? A horrible way to rob an old man of his companion and dignity.

Sick, sick, sick of Falwell's father and sick of Falwell to call it a not-quite-cruel "prank".
posted by orthogonality at 2:06 AM on May 16, 2007


Much like how Hitler didn't (literally) kill anyone, it wasn't Falwell that did the damage to this country, it was all his idiot supporters

Yes, which disturbingly suggests that "much like Hitler" many here would be ghoulishly elated by the mass death (and apparently torture!) of a significant portion of the population.

Apparently a small but powerful American religious subpopulation is causing problems with its general political sympathies and activism, leading us down destructive domestic and international paths. Obviously the Solution to this problem is that these people need to die. When they die their destructive intellectual and political influence goes with them, leaving us and the world better off.
posted by dgaicun at 2:13 AM on May 16, 2007


Look, you can't have it both ways, if someone really deserves to die (i.e. if death is seen as just), then we need laws making it a capital crime to do whatever Falwell did (spread intolerant messages, etc). If someone really deserves to get tortured (i.e. if torture is seen as just), then we need laws making it a torture-worthy crime to do what Falwell did. If you really think death and torture are justice, then our legal system is not living up to its intended function. People that deserve torture and death are evading justice.

I don't believe the death penalty is just, I don't believe that torture is just, and people here are making me sick, not because they oppose Falwell's illiberal beliefs and actions, but because they are lending support to illiberal beliefs and actions through their comments here. These comments support that there is justice in the death penalty. These comments support that there is justice in torture. There isn't. Revenge is not a noble desire - it is a hateful desire, built on a faulty premise that two wrongs make a right. Falwell believed that "hell" was justice for the same odious reasons that people here wish he is burning in "hell" too. They think like Falwell. They share the same rotten, unjust ethical premises.

We need better - ethical, adult - ways to think about our political opponents/enemies than 'they need to die'. And if we really believe they need to die, then we are being unethical by not pursuing those routes.

'It's just a catharsis' is not an acceptable response. I don't get my "catharsis" by watching pornography where 10 white men rape a crying black woman, because that would suggest my underlying emotions are pretty racist and misogynistic. It would suggest I need to heal those feelings instead of feed them.

Likewise many here seem to need to start healing their destructive, violent feelings and stop feeding them. Your emotions here are not healthy. They aren't right.
posted by dgaicun at 2:44 AM on May 16, 2007 [2 favorites]


Baby_Balrog writes "I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around,"

Read the comments, I am not dancing or rejoycing about his death either. I just hope he didn't suffer because, no matter how you spin it, he certainly was an human being..and suffering isn't good, no matter how one wants to spin it.

That is WHY I condemn his hatemongering.The more I read about what he did, the more I despise his words
God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve.
-- Rev Jerry Falwell, blaming civil libertarians, feminists, homosexuals, and abortion rights supporters for the terrorist attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2001
Why have sympathy for what he said ? He's using 9/11 facts against groups he dislikes, making the most absurd claim that the same god that is all right and pious sent a punishment to kill everybody in the building, even if it is obvious not everybody there was libertatian, homosexual or an abortion supporter. And clearly someone believed he was saying "the truth" . Yeah right, he also speaked with the dead. Ohhh lookie, a miracle !

Yet he was perfectly consistant in his unrestricted hate, in that he was a true believer, full of blind faith.
posted by elpapacito at 2:46 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think it's kind of creepy the way everyone is dancing around

Well, it's generally considered to be poor manners and form, but the level of contempt you're seeing is hardly unexpected, and even undeserved. This was a man of enormous power and influence who more than a few times used his station to forward an agenda of bigotry and intolerence, all the while enriching himself and fortifying his own cult of personality.

Dr. Falwell knew as well as anyone that one reaps what one sows.
posted by psmealey at 5:10 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Watch now as the question of who attends his funeral becomes the political hot potato of the week -- will Bush? Will McCain?

I see Baby_Balrog has shown up to tsk tsk us for being unChristian again. Balrog, if Falwell is one of your own, mourn him with your own. Here, we come to bury him, not to praise him.

I propose an "I'm sad Jerry's dead" thread as an alternative for people who don't like to see others speak ill of the evil dead.

Also, I highly recommend anthropologist Susan Harding's excellent ethnographic study of his church, entitled "The Book of Jerry Falwell." You'll learn a lot about what makes the man tick. And it ain't pretty.

And oh yeah, fuck Falwell.
posted by spitbull at 5:19 AM on May 16, 2007


I propose an "I'm sad Jerry's dead" thread as an alternative for people who don't like to see others speak ill of the evil dead.

How about the "I'm not sad he's dead I just have better things to do than celebrate on a website" thread?

Here, we come to bury him, not to praise him.
posted by spitbull


Yes, bury him under the cloak of anonymity. I don't know about any "we", but it's certainly easy to be a coward on the internet, isn't it H.R.
posted by justgary at 5:54 AM on May 16, 2007


Jerry Falwell Talks About His First Time.

The fake Campari interview that caused the freedom of speech ruckus and caused Falwell to sue Larry Flynn and Hustler for $45 million alleging invasion of privacy, libel, and intentional infliction of emotional distress.
posted by Skygazer at 6:19 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Falwell was a racist demagogue until it became impossible to be nationally prominent and influential as a racist.

His post-60s commentaries as part of the Moral Majority and Christian Coalition, along with his racist statement previous to that, make his opinion as tainted as it could be. Good riddance.
posted by mephron at 6:19 AM on May 16, 2007 [2 favorites]


I hope he had a chance to repent on his deathbed.
posted by Elmore at 6:26 AM on May 16, 2007


elpapacito - ...showing hypocrisy and double talk in simple, accessible but not stupid) displays.

Like continually highlighting how many of said 'traditional family' supporters have been (sometimes multiply) divorced. Emporer has no clothes, baby.

posted by romakimmy at 6:29 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Dagbladet (.no) eulogized him with this in respectful 48pt letters across his face:
     THOUGHT THE TELETUBBIES
WERE GAY PROPAGANDA

posted by you at 6:33 AM on May 16, 2007


I just hope he's familiar with The Tibetan Book of the Dead.
posted by kozad at 7:16 AM on May 16, 2007


Good god! Falwell's death has caused the greatest particle acceleration the inernet has ever seen! We'll have to build server farms on Mars to hold the googols of bits and bytes.

Which gets me to thinking... Is it possible that Falwell's greatest accomplishment was in energizing and focussing the humanist majority?

Judging by the volume and intensity of feeling, I think it to be the case. I'm dismayed that so much of it mirrors Falwell's jaundiced view of humanity, however. Such grave dancing serves the same purpose to his flock; giving them reason to view humanism as evil and satanic instead of something to aspire to.

It really bothers me when people represent ideals that I hold dear by being repulsive rather than attractive. A full frontal military assault on those who differ. Hasn't worked in the Middle East and it won't work in the moral theater.

Many of the issues that Falwell was vehemently opposed to deal with "acceptance" of those who are "outside" our world view. Hatred will never be extinguished-it can only be neutralized. Continually smashing particles into each other results in, well...

I live in a Bible Belt. Good people with all manner of very weird beliefs (to my world view). Idaho could be the most right wing state in the Union. But it is changing. Because there are more and more "humanist" folks moving here and doing very good things and in a very responsible manner. Being an environmentalist here used to mean (to loggers, ranchers, and farmers) that we favored tree spiking and the destruction of equipment and livelihoods. WTF?

Now people are beginning to see that our lakes, rivers, and forests are becoming healthier because of people who care. Environmentalism is becoming attractive rather than repulsive. Earth First never represented me.

I, for one, am thankful that Falwell lived and had such a bully pulpit. He made (like Pat Roberson, et al) the views and intent of the religious right crystal clear. The reaction to his death shows that. I suspect, by his being, that he "converted" far fewer than he created in opposition.

Grave dancing will convert no one. You don't represent me. If a tyrant's death resulted in good, then our troops would be wearing garlands. A tyrant's worst enemy is one that is invisible, one that grows by attraction, not by fusilade and terror.

Change is incremental. Those of you who are young (under 40) have no idea how this country has changed in the past 60 years. It wasn't the Black Panthers, SDS, gay parades, screaming atheists, or male hating feminists who are responsible. It was ordinary folk who made others change their attitudes. In my nearly 60 years I have seen miracles. I have seen people with entrenched racist, sexist, homophobic, (yada yada) attitudes completely change when the gay, black, hippie, (yada yada) neighbors become an asset to their lives. Conversely, I've met few Mormons I haven't liked, although I haven't a clue as to how they could believe what they do. They've just been good people.

Is it possible that we have met the enemy and he is us?
posted by private_idaho at 7:57 AM on May 16, 2007 [2 favorites]


Those of you who are young (under 40) have no idea how this country has changed in the past 60 years.

they also don't realize that the falwells of the world didn't say much back then because they were happy with society the way it was ... they're not trying to change things, they're trying to stop change ... they're not trying to gain influence, they're trying to stop losing it

i wish people would understand that ... the religious right getting louder and more shrill isn't a sign of victory for them ... it's a sign of defeat
posted by pyramid termite at 8:08 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


I slept on it and I'm still glad he's dead. I'm glad his black, shriveled rabbit-feces sized heart gave out. Certainly there is much work that remains to be done in the world but there is that much less Essence du Evil in it today. A poisonous spirit was annihilated and that cheers me.

After reading the cat anecdote I think his body ought to be desecrated then burnt in a trash barrel. Maybe his family would find that bordering-on-cruel prank amusing; it's in their bloodline to do so.

To paraphrase Nietzsche, I would believe only in a God who knows how to dance on Falwell's grave.

He was the planet's closest thing to ambulatory shit after Ann Coulter.

I'm enjoying his death and will continue to do so.
posted by fleetmouse at 8:12 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is it possible that we have met the enemy and he is us?

No, I'm pretty sure it's Jerry Falwell.
posted by chunking express at 8:31 AM on May 16, 2007


Jerry Falwell: He used to be dead wrong. Now he's just dead.

The end.
posted by mazola at 8:36 AM on May 16, 2007


I heard him on NPR this morning in an old interview say that he spewed those hate-filled lines because he knew it would get him attention. He proudly pointed out that in one instance it got him on network TV for the first time.

The man ain't got no culture!
posted by Mental Wimp at 8:56 AM on May 16, 2007


There was a local story in today's paper re him. Apparently just before conducting a wedding he invited the parents of the bride and groom to his study-one of them reported he had a teletubbie perched on his computer monitor-a gift from a grandchild.
posted by konolia at 8:57 AM on May 16, 2007


Obviously the Solution to this problem is that these people need to die

I'd settle for their fat asses to be taken away in their Rapture.
posted by Heywood Mogroot at 9:16 AM on May 16, 2007


Look, you can't have it both ways, if someone really deserves to die (i.e. if death is seen as just), then we need laws making it a capital crime to do whatever Falwell did (spread intolerant messages, etc). If someone really deserves to get tortured (i.e. if torture is seen as just), then we need laws making it a torture-worthy crime to do what Falwell did. If you really think death and torture are justice, then our legal system is not living up to its intended function. People that deserve torture and death are evading justice.

I don't believe the death penalty is just, I don't believe that torture is just, and people here are making me sick, not because they oppose Falwell's illiberal beliefs and actions, but because they are lending support to illiberal beliefs and actions through their comments here. These comments support that there is justice in the death penalty. These comments support that there is justice in torture.


Oh baloney. Saying "good riddance" isn't the same as saying "I would have killed him with my own hands", and it certainly isn't the same as saying "the state should be empowered to judge who's guilty of these acts and then kill them."
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:31 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


And I have to admit I kinda agreed with Fallwell about Tinky-Winky. I mean it carried around a man-purse, for crying out loud, and had a triangle for a toupee.

How do we know Tinky-Winky is a "he?" I see no evidence of Dinky-Dick from which he Tinkles nor an penis-eye with which to Wink at me.
posted by ericb at 9:33 AM on May 16, 2007


There aren't a lot of people I feel comfortable saying are a net negative presence on earth. I feel completely comfortable saying that about Falwell. We're better off without him.

He died (almost certainly) without suffering, after a long prosperous life. There's no remarkable tragedy here, and no great virtue on his part (not even basic human decency, it seems to me), that demands respect.

I wouldn't barge into his funeral and say this, but fortunately his family isn't going to be reading Metafilter in the coming days, so I feel like I can speak honestly here. Bad man, a bad life used for ill; good riddance.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:38 AM on May 16, 2007 [2 favorites]


right up to the end:


He told CNN just one week before his death that he still believes that gays, pro-choicers and other liberals caused September 11. So much for his apology.

posted by amberglow at 9:41 AM on May 16, 2007


There was a local story in today's paper re him. Apparently just before conducting a wedding he invited the parents of the bride and groom to his study-one of them reported he had a teletubbie perched on his computer monitor-a gift from a grandchild.

I really wonder what message you take away from that, konolia. He made millions from attacking them and us. He enjoyed what he did and profited mightily from it for decades and decades. He was a hateful conman and millions of ignorant fools donated to support and further his hatred and intolerance. I won't even get into the attacks and violence he helped cause, or the discriminating and hateful legislation he pushed.
posted by amberglow at 9:50 AM on May 16, 2007


How the GOP candidates responded to Falwell's death.
posted by ericb at 10:58 AM on May 16, 2007


I do not apologize for feeling grief after the passing of a loved one.

I will not apologize for feeling a lesser joy after the passing of a man I can only describe as vile.
posted by uri at 10:59 AM on May 16, 2007


'It's just a catharsis' is not an acceptable response. I don't get my "catharsis" by watching pornography where 10 white men rape a crying black woman, because that would suggest my underlying emotions are pretty racist and misogynistic. It would suggest I need to heal those feelings instead of feed them.

So if I get my catharsis by watching Army of Darkness it suggests my underlying emotions are pretty anti-undead and murderous? Or perhaps I get off on human mutilation in some New Crobuzonian Remade science experiment gone wrong kind of way.

How about the "I'm not sad he's dead I just have better things to do than celebrate on a website" thread?

I'd like to see you prove that celebrating your lack of celebration on a website (and doing it on a website, no less) is quantifiably "better".

-----

And, for the record, everyone that says, "he was a human being!" should have their arm chopped off, only to be replaced by a shotgun, chainsaw, or other implement of destruction.
posted by The God Complex at 11:08 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist to Picket Jerry Falwell Funeral
"WBC will preach at the memorial service of the corpulent false prophet Jerry Falwell, who spent his entire life prophesying lies and false doctrines like 'God loves everyone'. There is little doubt that Falwell split Hell wide open the instant he died. The evidence is compelling, overwhelming, and irrefragable.
1. Falwell was a true Calvinistic Baptist when he was a young preacher in Springfield, Missouri, and sold his soul to Free-Willism (Arminianism) for lucre.

2. Falwell bitterly and viciously attacked WBC because of WBC's faithful Bible preaching -- thereby committing the unpardonable sin -- otherwise known as the sin against the Holy Ghost.

3. Falwell warmly praised Christ-rejecting Jews, pedophile-condoning Catholics, money-grubbing compromisers, practicing fags like Mel White, and backsliders like Billy Graham and Robert Schuler, etc. All for lucre -- making him guilty of their sins."
Even the haters hate the haters.
posted by ericb at 11:17 AM on May 16, 2007


a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

I don't read this thread as being particularly vindictive, myself - it mostly seems light-hearted from where I am. Falwell lived a shitty life, and left a shitty legacy, and poking a little fun at that doesn't seem like the worst thing one could do. Did you complain when most people didn't mourn Saddam's death? (Or did you actually support the direct causing of that death?)

Falwell died and was famous. There are people who knew him personally, and then people who didn't who liked him, and people who didn't who hated him. Funerals are for the living. When we weep in memory of a great person who has died, or leave a thread full of dots, it's to share with each other the loss we feel that their contribution to this world is over, completed. The person who has died doesn't have a stake in this. They are dead. (Even if you believe in some kind of afterworld, surely petty nonsense on earth is no longer interesting once you're uniting with the Infinite or meeting your Maker or whatever...)

For someone famous, that means all those folks you never met have an opinion about the impact you had on the world. Jerry Falwell the human being isn't really the point here, and anyway he doesn't exist anymore. Jerry Falwell the Famous Person, the image Falwell created of himself & projected to reach certain goals, that is what is being talked about here. The man who died is a small part of the political story he told, and by choosing to become a public figure, he made his persona into part of his life's work. He is the one who chose to make his life public, and to make it about morality and judgment. (This in itself is not a negative thing - Martin Luther King Jr did this, and we praise him for it, because we think his morality and his judgement were good.)

People who make mistakes are one thing; people who intentionally promote bad judgment and hateful rules are another. I don't feel particularly happy about Falwell dying, but I don't feel bad about this thread either. Those LGF comments are much more upsetting.

Like I said, the man lived a shitty life. Really, the crime was probably punishment enough, except that he was probably not aware enough how much his hate was stunting his connection to the world, so he probably didn't even know how shitty his life was. Let's just pretend there's such a thing as reincarnation and hope he comes back as something slightly more enlightened, like maybe some kind of mollusk or something.
posted by mdn at 11:27 AM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Hah! ericb, that's almost worthy as an FPP.
posted by converge at 11:29 AM on May 16, 2007


Carl Sandburg's poem "To Billy Sunday", written in 1915.
posted by New Frontier at 11:32 AM on May 16, 2007 [3 favorites]


Bye, Bye Jerry
posted by MiltonRandKalman at 11:52 AM on May 16, 2007


a man DIED here. Just like ALL OF US are going to die one day.

A man died, a man who spent his entire life spewing hatred and vitriol and poison. A man who created rivers of of bigoted filth, and dipped his head under to blow spouting plumes of excrement. A man who claimed that God's presence required paying a cover charge.

He was evil, clothed in carefully arranged backlighting. He's dead, and I, for one, welcome the lessening of evil on our poor benighted planet.
posted by dejah420 at 1:15 PM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


New Frontier, that poem is great. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten at 1:18 PM on May 16, 2007


Call me childish if you will, but wfrgms Got it right at the very beginning...
posted by DesbaratsDays at 1:41 PM on May 16, 2007


Oh, and the 500th post!
posted by DesbaratsDays at 1:41 PM on May 16, 2007


Teletubby Tinky Winky weighs in on the man who "outted" him and his little red purse.
posted by miss lynnster at 2:05 PM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Yes, bury him under the cloak of anonymity. I don't know about any "we", but it's certainly easy to be a coward on the internet, isn't it H.R.

Piss off, justgary. If you were my neighbor and knew me well I'd still tell you what I thought of Falwell to your face. No one is forming a violent mob here, so where's the fucking "cowardice" you speak of? In my real life, I confront these motherfuckers non-anonymously all the time, in fact.

So fuck Falwell. And fuck you too.
posted by spitbull at 2:17 PM on May 16, 2007 [3 favorites]


And to add, if I were not anonymous here, there's all sorts of likelihood that my comments would incite violent reactions from "Christians" of the Falwell ilk, the real cowards of the county. They're well known for it.
posted by spitbull at 2:18 PM on May 16, 2007 [2 favorites]


ericb: Fred Phelps and Westboro Baptist to Picket Jerry Falwell Funeral Etc, Etc...

... what? Seriously, that's a joke site, right? Or is there another Jerry Falwell, who also happened to die recently, who actually "preached 'God loves everyone'"?
posted by CKmtl at 2:38 PM on May 16, 2007


Seriously, that's a joke site, right?

No joke. The link is to their own hate-filled website, GodHatesAmerica.
posted by ericb at 2:44 PM on May 16, 2007


In that case, that's some impressive mental gymnastics to construe his entire life as the preaching of all-inclusive God-love. I knew those WBC people were wacky, but that takes the cake.
posted by CKmtl at 2:57 PM on May 16, 2007


... The notion of church/state separation, now widely regarded by Republicans as part of a devious war against Christianity, was a widely shared principle. Falwell himself once denounced preachers who got involved in governance, though not out of devotion to a secular republic: As a committed segregationist, he decried the work of Martin Luther King Jr, saying, "Preachers are not called to be politicians, but to be soul winners."

What changed? The religious right's creation myth holds that Roe v Wade so outraged the faithful that they could no longer sit passively on their pews. As the Columbia University historian Randall Balmer has shown, this is nonsense. The Southern Baptist Convention, Falwell's denomination, was officially pro-choice throughout the 1970s; anti-abortion activism was seen as the province of Catholics, a group then widely despised by fundamentalist Protestants. No, what really galvanized the religious right were Supreme Court rulings stripping whites-only Christian academies, like the one Falwell founded in 1966, of their tax-exempt status. Fervent opposition to abortion, which eventually cemented the alliance between conservative Protestant and Catholics, came later. ...

posted by amberglow at 2:58 PM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


Falwell, Rudy, and the GOP Debate --...What Giuliani did, in effect, was to borrow Falwell's attack on liberals and aim it at Ron Paul. "You're a fag, Ron": that was Rudy's response to what used to be Republican foreign policy doctrine, too. "You homos hate yourselves."
...You didn't have to watch the Fox debate all the way to Rudy's Quayle moment to know something odd was afoot. Right at the beginning, as each candidate was introduced, a graphic appeared with the following data: Age. Religion. Family. Career. I suppose I shouldn't have found it breathtaking that Religion was the second identifying feature -- not from the network where Bill O'Reilly's synonym for Democrats, "secular progressives," is just another word for Satanists. Still, the naked injection of religious denomination into a debate for candidates for the country's highest civic office stuck me as Fox's way of saying -- as a kind of winking tribute to Jerry Falwell -- "Fuck you" to People for the American Way. Plus, with Religion being listed just beneath how old they are, it turned Age into a kind of Meet-Your-Maker-Meter, a countdown to their eternal reward. ...

posted by amberglow at 3:17 PM on May 16, 2007


The next big controversy: who attends Falwell's Farewell Party.

Bush will have to, to placate his remaining 30 supporters and further piss of the other 250 million people in the US who hate his ass. But will the Repub candidates? Will any of them speak in eulogistic tones?

Watching all this historical footage being run around the Falwell death story of the con men who gave us the "Christian Right" in the 70s and 80s makes them look so ridiculous, like the worst kind of cheesy used care salesmen. I think this is the beginning of the end of the "Christian Right." Everyone can see how stupid they are but themselves. Not "believing" in evolution has consequences. You don't evolve.
posted by spitbull at 3:30 PM on May 16, 2007


But will the Repub candidates? Will any of them speak in eulogistic tones?
Of course. Some of them already spoke at his Univ. and got their photo-ops but need to show more "faith".

rudepundit comes thru:
Dead Falwell:
Jerry Falwell was a poison, a jowly backwoods cretin who used his abilities to calmly, smilingly spin entire worlds of nutzoid damnation and spew them into the airwaves to build the illusion of an empire, all fake gossamer and cash. For the better part of four decades, his gluttonous, bovine visage befouled our television screens, slavering ratings whores of the news networks ready to lift his gargantuan belly, resting it on their heads, to fellate him for all the good quotes he could weave from cultishly mad religious fervor, always smiling, that smug fuckin' smile of self-righteousness, of acting so God-stoned that he couldn't wipe Christ's blood out of his eyes. No wonder he was a man who looked like he enjoyed his pork rinds - he always had the Jesus-spliff munchies.

You could populate entire vital nations with the people he despised and wanted to cast into pits of despair if they didn't accept his Son of God, a pissy little deity who, like an overly inbred emperor, demands unquestioning loyalty and obeisance. ...

posted by amberglow at 4:03 PM on May 16, 2007


This tells us that at the very least 5 of them will be there for sure:
How the GOP candidates responded to Falwell's death

posted by amberglow at 4:18 PM on May 16, 2007


"I think this is the beginning of the end of the 'Christian Right'."

Y'know, when P. T. Barnum died, the bottomless well of suckers in the world dried up overnight. Didja know that? It's the truth! =P
posted by ZachsMind at 4:48 PM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


"I think this is the beginning of the end of the 'Christian Right'."

They call it the Republican Party now. ; >
posted by amberglow at 5:36 PM on May 16, 2007


The Christopher Hitchens takedown of Falwell I mentioned upthread is now available online as video and transcript on Crooks and Liars. Here's a delicious taste:

HITCHENS: The empty life of this ugly little charlatan proves only one thing: that you can get away with the most extraordinary offenses to morality and to truth in this country if you will just get yourself called Reverend.

Who would, even at your network, have invited on such a little toad to tell us that the attacks of September the 11th were the result of our sinfulness and were God's punishment if they hadn't got some kind of clerical qualification?

People like that should be out in the street, shouting and hollering with a cardboard sign and selling pencils from a cup.

The whole consideration of this — of this horrible little person is offensive to very, very many of us who have some regard for truth and for morality, and who think that ethics do not require that lies be told to children by evil old men, that we're — we're not told that people who believe like Falwell will be snatched up into heaven, where I'm glad to see he skipped the rapture, was found on the floor of his office, while the rest of us go to hell.

How dare they talk to children like this? How dare they raise money from credulous people on their huckster-like radio stations, and fly around in private jets, as he did, giggling and sniggering all the time at what he was getting away with?

Do you get an idea now of what I mean to say?

ANDERSON COOPER: Yes, no, I think — I think you're making yourself very clear.

posted by spitbull at 5:47 PM on May 16, 2007 [1 favorite]


ZachsMind, I don't mean some other cult of idiocy won't take over in time, but I think the ridiculousness of the evangelical political machine, and its dangerousness, are more apparent now that the Bush administration's long legacy of fuckups and corruption is more widely understood. I don't think the coverage of Falwell's death would have been so critical or the historical portrayal so absurd otherwise. I think this hurts them badly with moderate conservative types. I think the long national nightmare the evangelicals have wrought is perhaps coming into a final phase.

But sure, there's a new nightmare to come. People really are stupid and gullible, in much larger numbers than one would wish. But let's see what $5 gas and a demolished home market do for that. People get smarter when they get hungry.
posted by spitbull at 5:57 PM on May 16, 2007


Gurple got it right. If you didn't like what Falwell stood for, join the fight. Get involved.

The only reason that Falwell got as far as he did is because the rest of us let him.

Buy a copy of "The God Delusion" and give it to a young person. Heck, buy lots of copies and put them in librairies and schools.

Support those organizations that gurple mentioned. Check out the others like The Secular Coalition for America.
posted by storybored at 6:08 PM on May 16, 2007


Fuck the fat bastard! May he get what he deserves for all his vile fucking deeds. Fucking fat bastard.
posted by Ignition at 6:29 PM on May 16, 2007


The Southern Baptist Convention, Falwell's denomination, was officially pro-choice throughout the 1970s; anti-abortion activism was seen as the province of Catholics, a group then widely despised by fundamentalist Protestants. No, what really galvanized the religious right were Supreme Court rulings stripping whites-only Christian academies, like the one Falwell founded in 1966, of their tax-exempt status. Fervent opposition to abortion, which eventually cemented the alliance between conservative Protestant and Catholics, came later. ...
posted by amberglow at 5:58 PM


Thank you Amberglow; that was really interesting. I really like these little tidbits you tend to throw into the end of old political threads. It's like Kos, only smaller and more focused (and more coherent).
posted by caddis at 6:35 PM on May 16, 2007


Spitbull: But let's see what $5 gas and a demolished home market do for that. People get smarter when they get hungry.

I wish I could believe that. I'd offer a counter-example, but you know...Godwin and all that.
posted by infinitywaltz at 7:40 PM on May 16, 2007


Maybe I should say, people get madder when they're hungry. Channeling that anger into a force for change is the goal of progressive politics, as for the right.
posted by spitbull at 7:59 PM on May 16, 2007


caddis, i always find good stuff afterwards--i had no clue they were pro-choice before, and they weren't explicitly in politics then anyway, i don't think. : >
posted by amberglow at 8:20 PM on May 16, 2007



I wish I could believe that. I'd offer a counter-example, but you know...Godwin and all that.


Yup--as long as they have someone to scapegoat and demonize and distract, they're set.
posted by amberglow at 8:21 PM on May 16, 2007


Was never really a fan, but REST IN PEACE.
posted by Roger Davis at 10:01 PM on May 16, 2007


But let's see what $5 gas and a demolished home market do for that. People get smarter when they get hungry.

no, they look for someone to fix it ... sometimes the person they find actually does a decent job of fixing it ... other times the person they pick talks a good game but has other things in mind ... and sometimes they don't find anyone and decide that as long as things are being broken, they're going to break things too

truth is i don't think either the boomers or the x'ers know how to handle adversity for the most part ... and i think they're going to react very badly if stuff blows up
posted by pyramid termite at 12:50 AM on May 17, 2007


"truth is i don't think either the boomers or the x'ers know how to handle adversity for the most part ... and i think they're going to react very badly if stuff blows up"

When stuff blows up, we'll eventually do precisely what the Silent generation did: we'll figure it out, but yeah we'll react initially very badly, and it'll get worse before it gets better. The Silent Generation had the Great Depression before they had World War Two. Hopefully it won't get THAT bad. I don't know about you but I'm already feeling the crunch economically and have been for some time.

Like I said before. Falwell dying? The damage has already been done. Doesn't mean diddly.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:24 PM on May 17, 2007


The Southern Baptist Convention, Falwell's denomination, was officially pro-choice throughout the 1970s; anti-abortion activism was seen as the province of Catholics, a group then widely despised by fundamentalist Protestants.
I think you're underestimating the galvanizing force of evangelical pop-philosophers like Francis Schaeffer. Quite a few of the hardcore conservative Christians I've talked to recall the 'Hey, people, abortion is legal, that's wrong!' wake-up calls from that era as eye openers, stirring them out of a cultural and political lethargy.

While desegregation may have motivated a handful of people, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Abortion is and will continue to be an even stronger motivating factor than gay marriage, etc in many 'grassroots' conservative Christian circles.
posted by verb at 3:31 PM on May 17, 2007


But weren't Southern Baptists ok with Carter? He was very publicly pro-choice.
posted by amberglow at 4:08 PM on May 17, 2007


But weren't Southern Baptists ok with Carter? He was very publicly pro-choice.
Yeah, but that's before the abortion issue really existed in the 'Evangelical Mind' in this country. As you said, it was a Catholic issue for the vast majority of Protestants until a relatively small core of Evangelicals hit the pavement and started 'evangelizing' within the Christian community to cast abortion as the defining issue of the modern age.

Again, checking out Francis Schaeffer's book 'Whatever Happened To The Human Race' is totally worth it for the tone that was taken at the time. The stuff that the pro-life movement directs outward these days (dead baby pictures, graphic stories of dismembered fetuses, predictions of infanticide, etc.) were directed first at Christians who didn't think much about the issue, or were nominally pro-choice. It was a culture war inside the Protestant church before it was a culture war in the United States.

Racial issues definitely play a part just as they do with any other issue, but I think most of the population is/was ignorant of that: I'm in the Chicago area and while I know piles of Christians who still say that abortion is an abomination that must be stopped, I've yet to meet even one who was anything but ashamed by racial segregation on various bible college campuses.

Admittedly, though, I grew up in a weird overlap between the Charismatic/Pentacostal community and the Evangelical world. Baptists were a different crew.
posted by verb at 4:27 PM on May 17, 2007



Yeah, but that's before the abortion issue really existed in the 'Evangelical Mind' in this country.


It's not really a long time--Carter took office in Jan 77, and by 79 Falwell had the Moral Majority up and running.


Preacher power: America's God squad
The death of Jerry Falwell, founder of the Moral Majority, has rocked America's evangelical movement. Andrew Gumbel examines the saints and sinners of the religious right ... (Crouch, Bakker, Haggard, Robertson, Roberts, Osteen, Graham, Swaggart) They left off a whole bunch--Dobson, Land, etc...
posted by amberglow at 4:37 PM on May 17, 2007


I know the anti-gay stuff was a big deal by the mid-70s with Bryant and Falwell, and anti-feminist stuff even before then with Schafly and those people, but i don't remember hearing much pro-life stuff til the 80 election season. I guess it was still "in the family" so to speak and not in the media yet?
posted by amberglow at 4:40 PM on May 17, 2007


One less talibangelist
posted by mmrtnt at 8:44 PM on May 17, 2007 [2 favorites]


I think you're underestimating the galvanizing force of evangelical pop-philosophers like Francis Schaeffer. Quite a few of the hardcore conservative Christians I've talked to recall the 'Hey, people, abortion is legal, that's wrong!' wake-up calls from that era as eye openers, stirring them out of a cultural and political lethargy.

I wholeheartedly agree. Francis Schaeffer has been forgotten behind the roaring bloviators like Falwell and Robertson, but he really led the charge of intellectual fundamentalism and Calvinism back into the public square in the 1970s.

I'd love to do a FPP on Schaeffer, his teachers and followers, and L'Abri, but I just don't know if it could be done with ReligionFilter as it is on MeFi. And it's sad, because as someone who read Schaeffer in college, I can tell you that every idea he had back then still pops up when we talk about the Religious Right in this country.

Honestly, I should GMOFB and start posting this stuff I don't feel like I can put in the blue.
posted by dw at 9:48 PM on May 17, 2007


(Crouch, Bakker, Haggard, Robertson, Roberts, Osteen, Graham, Swaggart)

Well, the problem is that he's throwing very different people under one banner. It'd be like doing an article on recent anti-religion types and profiling Dawkins, Mao Zedong, and Marilyn Manson.

For example, the Roberts are faith healer types. Falwell was a dispensationalist and there did not believe in Roberts' form of faith healing. Roberts was also only tangentally involved in politics -- celebrities and politicians showed up at his door in the Seventies, and he said and did very little in American politics in his heyday. Falwell, well, you know his story.

They left off a whole bunch--Dobson, Land, etc...

Please repeat after me:
JAMES DOBSON IS NOT A MINISTER.

I know the anti-gay stuff was a big deal by the mid-70s with Bryant and Falwell, and anti-feminist stuff even before then with Schafly and those people, but i don't remember hearing much pro-life stuff til the 80 election season. I guess it was still "in the family" so to speak and not in the media yet?

1980 was important because it marked the first time the Religious Right/Moral Majority turned out in enough numbers to help one party. To a point they had helped elect Carter (under the idea that he was "one of them"), but they soured on him pretty quickly.

It's interesting that there are two presidents that have been publicly "born again" in the last 50 years -- and they're the two worst we've had. OTOH, our three best were a Catholic, a nominal Deist, and a Southern Baptist the Convention refused to recognize as one of their own.

The '76 Democratic platform was very circumspect about abortion:
We fully recognize the religious and ethical nature of the concerns which many Americans have on the subject of abortion.
Compare it to 2004:
Because we believe in the privacy and equality of women, we stand proudly for a woman's right to choose, consistent with Roe v. Wade, and regardless of her ability to pay.... At the same time, we strongly support family planning and adoption incentives. Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare.
For the heck of it, here is the only reference to abortion I could find in the '76 GOP platform:
Because of our concern for family values, we affirm our beliefs, stated elsewhere in this Platform, in many elements that will make our country a more hospitable environment for family life -- neighborhood schools; educational systems that include and are responsive to parents' concerns; estate tax changes to establish more realistic exemptions which will minimize disruption of already bereaved families; a position on abortion that values human life; a welfare policy to encourage rather than discourage families to stay together and seek economic independence; a tax system that assists rather than penalizes families with elderly members, children in day care or children in college; economic and employment policies that stop the shrinkage of our dollars and stimulate the creation of jobs so that families can plan for their economic security.
I know the anti-gay stuff was a big deal by the mid-70s with Bryant and Falwell, and anti-feminist stuff even before then with Schafly and those people, but i don't remember hearing much pro-life stuff til the 80 election season. I guess it was still "in the family" so to speak and not in the media yet?

It was there. It just took seven years before you saw the impact. For Southern Protestants, it was the "final straw" of the courts telling them how they should live. For Catholics, it landed square in their "sanctity of life" core value. For Fundamentalists, it was just sheer moral outrage. And it took some time for churches and its people to get their heads around what abortion actually was and meant.

But look at the '76 platforms. It was an issue. It just wasn't a political issue yet. And that's why Falwell is important here -- he made abortion a political issue, and the GOP ran with it and spend the next 30 years using the Christian base to squeeze votes.

And they really were using them, and only in the last couple of years have you seen evangelicals realize that. The GOP has never had the inclination to ban abortion, because they know most Americans are both pro-life and pro-choice -- it should be safe/legal/rare but reasonable restrictions (e.g. parental consent) are fine, too. They ban it, they're pissing on the third rail. The GOP loses power and is rent by the ensuing hot "culture war."

So, yeah, it was "in the family," but it took time for it to become political.
posted by dw at 9:49 PM on May 17, 2007


dw, I'd love to see a comprehensive Schaeffer post. I've always thought he was an interesting figure; a more complex one, too, than he's often given credit for. As conservative as he was, I think he'd be horrified with the current administration. I don't have a hard time imagining him being as outraged about the use of torture, for instance, as he was about abortion in the 1970's. Also, he was a Christian environmentalist in the early 70's, long before most conservative evangelicals had even begun to be open to that position.
posted by EarBucket at 4:24 AM on May 18, 2007


Oh, man, now I want to write a Schaeffer post as well. Love him or hate him, he's definitely one of the formative 'behind the scenes' characters in present day western Christianity.

While many of his moral/ethical arguments are now boilerplate text for the religious right, what's been lost is his vigorous insistence that political activism informed by mature religious belief would be neither conservative nor liberal, but would intersect with each 'camp' on different issues in different situations. The Moral Majority crowd that followed him sold their philosophical birthright for a bowl of Republican porridge, and the results are the current moral and philosophical bankruptcy of the religious right.
posted by verb at 4:41 AM on May 18, 2007


"Where's evil? It's that large part of every man that wants to hate without limit, that wants to hate with God on his side. It's that part of every man that finds all kinds of ugliness so attractive."
-- Howard W. Campbell, Jr., Mother Night

(emphasis mine)
posted by muddgirl at 5:17 AM on May 18, 2007


I'd love to do a FPP on Schaeffer, his teachers and followers, and L'Abri,

Do it. I've never heard of him.


Please repeat after me:
JAMES DOBSON IS NOT A MINISTER.

There's really not much difference, i don't think, nowadays. Same activism, same hatreds and bigotry, same audiences, same interjection into politics for rightwing Christian theology, same ringkissing by political candidates, ...
posted by amberglow at 9:30 AM on May 18, 2007


There's really not much difference, i don't think, nowadays.

Yes there is. You wouldn't call Richard Dawkins a philosopher or Michael Moore a politician, even if they serve those roles.

Dobson is NOT a minister. He holds no divinity degree. He's a psychologist by training. He heads no church and preaches from no pulpit. What he is is an activist fronting a media machine that's awash in cash.

Really, he came by politics accidentally. It was only as Robertson and Falwell declined in the 1990s that he moved to the front, and even then he's never been comfortable in the spotlight (vs. Falwell, who knows and loves the camera). It's part of the reason why Richard Land is getting more time than his role previously got. It's also why Rick Warren has moved to the front as well (that and Gen X/Y evangelicals feeling that the church has overemphasized life before birth and underemphasized life after birth e.g. AIDS and poverty).
posted by dw at 10:29 AM on May 18, 2007


Oh, man, now I want to write a Schaeffer post as well.

TAG!

As conservative as he was, I think he'd be horrified with the current administration.

I would think so too. For one thing, he wasn't a fundamentalist as much as an evangelical with a Calvinist streak that shared Calvin's intellectualism. I think he would be aghast at the lack of intellectualism in this administration and the modern church.

While many of his moral/ethical arguments are now boilerplate text for the religious right, what's been lost is his vigorous insistence that political activism informed by mature religious belief would be neither conservative nor liberal, but would intersect with each 'camp' on different issues in different situations. The Moral Majority crowd that followed him sold their philosophical birthright for a bowl of Republican porridge, and the results are the current moral and philosophical bankruptcy of the religious right.

Exactly. And the sad thing is that the Democrats could capitalize on this heavily if they were willing to welcome Christians back into the party and agree to disagree on some things. But I see the Christians of my generation and the two below me moving away from politics, anyway, so it probably wouldn't matter.
posted by dw at 10:42 AM on May 18, 2007


There are millions and millions of Christians in the Democratic party, and they haven't gone anywhere. The overwhelming majority of Democratic voters are Christian.

It's the racist white Christians who moved to the GOP. The Democratic party has had policies far more in line with real Christian beliefs for decades now.

And about Dobson: It doesn't really matter to many of us whether he's a Rev or not since what he says and sells and raises money on is exactly the same hateful and bigoted and unChristian extreme rhetoric as those other people, and he's treated exactly the same by the media--exactly the same. He himself actually says he speaks for Christians, just as the others do (and in Falwell's case, did)
posted by amberglow at 12:12 PM on May 18, 2007


Dobson is also treated by this govt and politicians and most if not all media as exactly the same as ordained people:
Bush met with Dobson and conservative Christian leaders to rally support for Iran policy

... "[But] I don't think he's a Christian; at least that's my impression," Dobson added, saying that such an impression would make it difficult for Thompson to connect with the Republican Party's conservative Christian base and win the GOP nomination.... He said that, while Dobson didn't believe Thompson to be a member of a non-Christian faith, Dobson nevertheless "has never known Thompson to be a committed Christian—someone who talks openly about his faith."
"We use that word—Christian—to refer to people who are evangelical Christians," ...

posted by amberglow at 12:18 PM on May 18, 2007


Falwell has died... but his post lives on.
posted by miss lynnster at 12:44 PM on May 18, 2007


Barry Goldwater:

"Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."

posted by amberglow at 2:14 PM on May 18, 2007


hah! The Onion (oldie, but relevant): Letter D Pulls Sponsorship From Sesame Street: Noted Consonant Alienated By Controversial New Gay Muppet ; >
posted by amberglow at 6:36 PM on May 18, 2007


I like my Falwell like I like my coffee: covered in bees!
posted by tehloki at 5:38 AM on May 19, 2007


No. It's not a mistake, Rev. Falwell...
posted by ericb at 7:52 AM on May 19, 2007


Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich told Liberty University's graduating class Saturday to honor the spirit of school founder Jerry Falwell by confronting "the growing culture of radical secularism" with Christian ideals. ...
posted by amberglow at 4:28 PM on May 19, 2007


(does anyone read the posts down here?)

Speaking of ding-dong, the witch is dead, I was interested to just come across the transcript of what follows that song, when the mayor and barrister and several town fathers of the Munchkin City talk about how said witch, how in addition to being "positively, absolutely, undeniably and reliably" physically dead, is dead "morally, ethically, [and] spiritually" as well.

Written almost 70 years ago, that seems to sum up The Wizard of Lynchburg's life as well as anything in the previous 500+ comments.
posted by LeLiLo at 5:57 PM on May 20, 2007 [1 favorite]


He's still dead, right? He hasn't resurrected or anything, right?

Just checking.

posted by miss lynnster at 6:58 PM on May 20, 2007 [1 favorite]


re: "does anybody read the posts down here"

there's about 400 people with this on their "my comments" page, so rest assured, somebody is reading these.
posted by tehloki at 12:33 AM on May 21, 2007


Op-ed: Falwell was 'unintentional godfather' of some creative gay-rights projects.
posted by ericb at 2:04 PM on May 21, 2007


i wouldn't say he was, but Anita Bryant certainly was, earlier in the 70s.
posted by amberglow at 2:52 PM on May 21, 2007


I think it's a stretch to give him credit--it's the critical mass of bible colleges and religious right universities and their policies that engendered Soulforce. The bible colleges -- the vast majority of them all existed way before Falwell and Robertson started schools, no? And what you have now is a large group of people Christian homeschooling and then funneling/forcing their kids to go to these specific schools--Falwell wasn't at all big in pushing homeschooling i don't think. That exploded later.
posted by amberglow at 5:56 PM on May 21, 2007


I think it's a stretch to give him credit--it's the critical mass of bible colleges and religious right universities and their policies that engendered Soulforce.

But wasn't Soulforce founded by Mel White? Ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson? And Soulforce had been in existence for what, a decade before this year's Equality Rides?

The bible colleges -- the vast majority of them all existed way before Falwell and Robertson started schools, no?

Uh, semantic issue here -- a bible college is a Protestant seminary that primarily grants a Bachelor of Theology. Falwell's Liberty and Robertson's Regent, while having seminaries attached to them, are not bible colleges but Christian universities.

And yes, a vast majority of bible colleges and Christian colleges long predate Regent and Liberty.

Liberty -- 1971
Regent -- 1977
Wheaton College (long considered the academic flagship of the US evangelical church) -- 1860
Calvin College (academic flagship of the US Reformed tradition) -- 1876
Bob Jones (fundamentalist yadda yadda) -- 1927

The point of Liberty and Regent was two-fold -- to create a school for training fundamentalists, and a nice ego boost for Pat and Jerry in the name of hundreds of undergrads worshipping at their feet. Wheaton just wasn't conservative enough, and they couldn't control BJU.

And what you have now is a large group of people Christian homeschooling and then funneling/forcing their kids to go to these specific schools--Falwell wasn't at all big in pushing homeschooling i don't think. That exploded later.

No, Falwell wasn't big in the homeschooling movement, though Liberty freshmen are increasingly coming from homeschooling backgrounds. (Patrick Henry College is actually the big Christian homeschooling destination.)

Believe it or not, the biggest reason (besides the obvious "public schools are evil") for homeschooling among fundies? It's far cheaper than tuition at the local Christian high school, especially when you're paying school taxes on top of tuition.

The Christian homeschooling movement is wholly independent from the general fundamentalist movement. Neither Dobson nor Robertson have condemned or condoned homeschooling publicly; they've both said positive things about it, but they've never told their followers to get out of public school.

And while Christians now make up a big plurality of homeschoolers, most parents homeschool for non-religious reasons.
posted by dw at 7:29 PM on May 21, 2007 [2 favorites]


ahhh...thanks--i didn't know what they are called.

But wasn't Soulforce founded by Mel White? Ghostwriter for Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson? And Soulforce had been in existence for what, a decade before this year's Equality Rides?

Crediting Falwell for White's life path and good deeds doesn't ring true for me. Does James Brady credit shooter John Hinkley for his gun control organization? Is Hinkley the godfather of the Brady Bill? Is the entire GOP the godfather of Media Matters? Is the kidnapper of Adam Walsh the godfather of that Center for Missing Children or whatever it is? etc ...

People who go thru awakenings or find new life paths due to seeing the error of some previous experience, or the life-changing nature of an event, or an unfolding process like coming out, etc, really deserve more than that. It wasn't Falwell who pushed White to come out but White who came out. It wasn't Falwell's actions that led White to focus where he did, but White's own actions and reactions to previous actions and knowledge of this subculture and desire to help others. Even backhandedly acknowledging Falwell this way does White a great disservice, i think.

Mobilizing against a force shouldn't lead to that force getting credit -- the focus gets removed from the good and turned back to the evil, i guess. White's work is larger and more encompassing by far than one televangelist/political player, even if that one person is part of why White does what he does.

If it's specifically targeted and limited to that specific thing then it's different, sometimes. For instance, the Stop Dr. Laura campaign that got her tv show canceled -- that might have created or awakened some to activism for the first time and led some to further work against hate (just as the AIDS epidemic did for many, and Stonewall did for many too), but only the action of getting her off the air was born of her and her actions directly--any subsequent work or organizations or anything people did afterwards or since are not at all to her credit--crediting her would again turn the focus the wrong way and minimize all the actions taken. (sorry i'm going on so long--hopefully this makes sense.)
posted by amberglow at 9:10 PM on May 21, 2007


I hope the examples make it clear--it's like saying "Is the owner of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory the inadvertent godfather of the labor movement and subsequent laws?" or "Is a deadly virus the inadvertent godfather of Larry Kramer/Act Up?

The whole setup -- Is (one specific bad person) the inadvertent godfather of/accidently responsible for (the actions of many people working together to do good in a wider yet related field)? -- actually gives a bad person all the credit that's actually due to the good people, and reduces them to people who are/were passively acted upon by that one person, instead of being proactive and reactive to wider issues and problems--even if that one person may have been a motivating factor for one or more or a symbol or public example of that problem.
posted by amberglow at 9:30 PM on May 21, 2007


Here's White on CNN after Falwell's death
posted by amberglow at 9:36 PM on May 21, 2007


Wow. I got curious and did some calculation: 907 favorites in this thread. That's an average of 1.63 favorites per post! We gotta have some kind of back-patting record here.
posted by tehloki at 1:22 AM on May 22, 2007


I guess there's a lot of self love in group hate...
posted by miss lynnster at 8:02 AM on May 22, 2007


It won't be long before miss lynster's last comment is favorited.
posted by caddis at 8:12 AM on May 22, 2007


SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU GHOULS.

thxbye
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:29 AM on May 22, 2007 [1 favorite]


After Falwell, Evangelicals at Crossroads -- "Movement in state of transition; faces schism between old, new generation."
posted by ericb at 8:50 AM on May 22, 2007


"If Jesus Came Back and Saw What's Going On in His Name...
he'd never stop throwing up."

posted by amberglow at 9:53 AM on May 22, 2007


The whole setup -- Is (one specific bad person) the inadvertent godfather of/accidently responsible for (the actions of many people working together to do good in a wider yet related field)? -- actually gives a bad person all the credit that's actually due to the good people, and reduces them to people who are/were passively acted upon by that one person, instead of being proactive and reactive to wider issues and problems--even if that one person may have been a motivating factor for one or more or a symbol or public example of that problem.

Yeah, you're right. While I'd argue that it was White's association with Falwell that got White press attention and a book deal, Soulforce wasn't founded to counter Falwell specifically, and White didn't found it because he was riding Falwell's coattails.

And yeah, while this sort of talk may be true, it really does cheapen the work of any movement. Not to Godwin, but it's like saying Hitler was responsible for the founding of modern Israel.
posted by dw at 11:42 AM on May 22, 2007


Not to Godwin, but it's like saying Hitler was responsible for the founding of modern Israel.

I actually had that as one of my examples last night but decided not to. (and it's exactly like) : >
posted by amberglow at 11:53 AM on May 22, 2007


True Christian Values -- 19-year-old Student at Liberty University Arrested for 'Nalpalm-Like Bombs' Intended to Stop Protestors at Falwell's Funeral.
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on May 22, 2007


True Christian Values -- 19-year-old Student at Liberty University Arrested for 'Nalpalm-Like Bombs' Intended to Stop Protestors at Falwell's Funeral.

hysterical! and i guess all too believable--a good "Christian soldier"?
posted by amberglow at 3:29 PM on May 22, 2007


Wonkette: Religious Fanatic Plans Terrorist Attack at Falwell's Funeral
... In light of this, concerned citizens across the nation have urged the government to start rounding up Christians and imprisoning them without charges in secret CIA prisons. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales is reportedly planning a major bust of extremist Christian sleeper cells across the South....
posted by amberglow at 4:15 PM on May 22, 2007


(He actually should do that)
posted by amberglow at 4:15 PM on May 22, 2007


...“a great friend of this administration.” He added that in a conversation a month ago, Falwell said he was thankful for “being able to train ‘a new generation’ of Christian conservatives, many of whom now work in the Bush administration.” ...
posted by amberglow at 9:11 AM on May 23, 2007


Congressional conservatives yesterday held an hour-long memorial for the late Rev. Jerry Falwell on the floor of the House of Representatives, extolling the “incredible and remarkable” religious right leader. ...
posted by amberglow at 3:05 PM on May 23, 2007


political cartoons about him--all negative
posted by amberglow at 6:06 PM on May 23, 2007


The New Establishment
"To the Bush haters of America, the young Monica Goodling is a footnote of this wretched era, one of the many Washington types that they'll be happy to get rid of come January 2009: Venal Vice President, Ex-Lobbyists Turned Regulators and, in Goodling's case, Young Evangelicals in High Places.

...Goodling is part of a new generation of evangelicals ushered in by Falwell, who insisted that Christians get involved in politics. They are graduates of the exploding number of evangelical colleges, which no longer aim to create a parallel subculture but instead to train 'Christian leaders to change the world,' as the Regent mission statement reads.

It used to be that being 33 and in charge of 93 U.S. attorneys would mean you'd been top of your class at Harvard or Yale or clerked at the Supreme Court. Now, Christian schools are joining that mix. Regent has had 150 of its graduates working in the White House; the school estimates that one-sixth of its alumni are in government work. Call them the Goodlings: scrubbed young ideologues, ready to serve their nation, the right's version of the Peace Corps generation."
posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on May 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


In related news: Poland to probe if Teletubbies are gay.
posted by ericb at 12:18 PM on May 28, 2007


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