If you can't say something nice...

June 4, 2007 8:03 PM

NewsFilter: Sen. Craig Thomas (R-WY) has died. He had been receiving chemotherapy for acute myeloid leukemia. Wyoming's Democratic Governor will appoint a successor from one of three finalists chosen by the state Republican party.
posted by pruner (55 comments total)

May he rest in peace and my condolences to his family.

But, is this really mefi material?
posted by rbs at 8:07 PM on June 4, 2007

Fight!
posted by Balisong at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2007

But, is this really mefi material?

I don't see why it's any less MeFi worthy than the death of Yolanda King, for one.
posted by pruner at 8:08 PM on June 4, 2007

If you can't say something nice...

You just broke that rule.
posted by dhammond at 8:11 PM on June 4, 2007

You just broke that rule.

You talkin' to me?
posted by pruner at 8:12 PM on June 4, 2007

.
posted by Busithoth at 8:12 PM on June 4, 2007

Why mention it?
posted by dhammond at 8:14 PM on June 4, 2007

why mention what... the rule?

because the first title I was gonna give the post was "The only good Republican is..."

but then I thought better of that.
posted by pruner at 8:15 PM on June 4, 2007

I'm only half-joking, but isn't pointing out that there are bad things to say a little insulting itself? Not that I'm offended, mind you...just seems to defeat the purpose. That is all.
posted by dhammond at 8:16 PM on June 4, 2007

For those wondering about the "three finalists" stuff: in case of a vacancy in the office of United States Senator from death, resignation, or otherwise, the prevailing practice is for state governors to fill the vacancy by appointment. Wyoming's Governor Freudenthal is a member of the Democratic Party, so if he able to freely to select his appointee, he'd presumably favor the selection of a Democrat. However, Wyoming requires the governor to appoint an interim senator from a list of three candidates proposed by the state central committee of the political party with which the previous incumbent was affiliated. Since Senator Thomas was a member of the Republican party, the Wyoming Republican Party Central Committee will likely offer Governor Freudenthal a choice of three staunch Republicans.
posted by RichardP at 8:17 PM on June 4, 2007

Well, I know nothing about him, his politics, or his character. However, he was a United States Senator and is now dead, so my condolences to his family and my gratitude for his service to his constituents.

Also, he replaced Dick Cheney. Can't be all bad.
posted by yhbc at 8:17 PM on June 4, 2007

Also, he replaced Dick Cheney. Can't be all bad.

LOL... you make it sound like he did so by choice.
posted by pruner at 8:18 PM on June 4, 2007

So the only reason this is FPP-Worthy is because Yolanda King had a fpp obit post? Is this some kind of misguided effort to make mefi fair and balanced?
posted by Manjusri at 8:19 PM on June 4, 2007

No... I think it's FPP worthy because he was one of only 100 Senators, and because the rules regarding the choice of his successor (elaborated upon by RichardP) are pretty interesting, as compared to some other states at least.
posted by pruner at 8:22 PM on June 4, 2007

Obitfilter sucks almost always.
posted by mds35 at 8:22 PM on June 4, 2007

In other news, Representative William J. Jefferson, the Louisiana Democrat, was indicted Monday on 16 corruption-related felony counts.
posted by Sailormom at 8:24 PM on June 4, 2007

FYI, I'm done defending this post's worthiness.

If you don't think it's worthy and wanna flag it, go ahead.

and if Mathowie et al. wants to delete it, that's fine by me too.
posted by pruner at 8:25 PM on June 4, 2007

Cancer of the blood -- that's a hell of a way to go. Rest in peace, senator.
posted by boo_radley at 8:25 PM on June 4, 2007

Is this some kind of misguided effort to make mefi fair and balanced?

Misguided or no, Mefi has often been fair and balanced. Or at least thrice . . .
posted by Bixby23 at 8:29 PM on June 4, 2007

Sen. Thomas was re-elected with 70% of the popular vote in 2006, after having been re-elected with 74% in 2000. He served in the Marine Corps for four years. In the Senate, he was a staunch proponent of conservation and a supporter of national parks.

He was from all accounts I've seen a good man who firmly believed in public service. It doesn't matter that he was a Republican; he was a good public servant, and he deserves respect.

.
posted by cerebus19 at 8:31 PM on June 4, 2007

and if Mathowie et al. wants to delete it, that's fine by me too.
posted by pruner

Self-pruning?
posted by Balisong at 8:32 PM on June 4, 2007

So far the only suckiness in this thread are the people complaining about obitfilter ;)
posted by Kattullus at 8:33 PM on June 4, 2007

From a very quick review of his voting record, it appears that Senator Thomas was very much a pro-business conservative, but appears to have been an ethical one. He voted to cap federal spending in 2005, and against the Bridge to Nowhere in Alaska. I don't see any sign of fundamentalist whackjobbery.

Most of this crowd would probably disagree with him, perhaps strongly, but it sounds like he was simply conservative, not evil, and that the Senate suffered a real loss today.
posted by Malor at 8:34 PM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

There are plenty of news announcemnt sites. If I understand correctly, this is not such a forum. That said, Isn't it great that Jerry Falwell is still dead?
posted by longsleeves at 8:40 PM on June 4, 2007

This is, for now at least, out of date, but the list of Senators who have died while holding office is relatively short.

From the Wiki entry: "Thomas was honored by the National Parks and Conservation Association with their William Penn Mott, Jr. Park Leadership Award, as well as the National Parks Achievement Award." I usually cringe when I hear about a republican involved in National Parks issues, but in this case I think Malor's "conservative, not evil" is dead on.
posted by Manjusri at 8:40 PM on June 4, 2007

Actually I think obitfilter is just fine. I for one was glad to have been able to express my sadness at the death of Kurt Vonnegut for example. Beyond the death of a sitting Senator, this is also interesting from the point of view of the political process regarding his replacement. I had no idea of Wyoming's process. Not having any personal connection with said Senator, I have no grief to share.
posted by Eekacat at 8:41 PM on June 4, 2007

FYI, I'm done defending this post's worthiness.

That would be a wise course of action: as a general rule the repeated and vociferous defending of one's own post should probably be avoided.

And yes, longsleeves, it is great that Falwell is still dead.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:42 PM on June 4, 2007

record of Thomas' voting position
posted by pruner at 8:44 PM on June 4, 2007

errr... voting positions... there were more than one. :)
posted by pruner at 8:46 PM on June 4, 2007

I disagree with a lot of his policies, but he seems like he was a decent guy, and really did put forth the effort to look out for his constituents. Admittedly, he was opposed to abortion and gay rights despite his supposed libertarian leanings, but unlike many Republicans, he didn't seem to be a total dick about it, and it was hardly what he was known for. Condolences to his family, friends, and colleagues.
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:54 PM on June 4, 2007

Balisong, I'm confused by your link! It seems to indicate that Senator Thomas beat leukemia! Why would the liberal media hide this from us?!
posted by infinitywaltz at 8:57 PM on June 4, 2007

.
Unseemly, the Falwell comment. Regret.
.

. Also for my neighbor Valerie Scopsczyck who once sold me her dodge green 1969 Dodge Dart big block V-8 with the 4-barrel holly carb modification, who died last month at the age of 89 while being force-fed in a nursing home after losing her marbles and wandering the neighborhood in her nightgown.
posted by longsleeves at 9:11 PM on June 4, 2007

Look, the man was representing his constituents, and isn't the devil. And how, if Cheney was in the house, did this man, in the senate, replace him?
posted by Busithoth at 9:13 PM on June 4, 2007

Another potentially Mefi-worthy story done in by a bad FPP. One news story without any supporting links is barely worth our time.

And I'm not going to pretend I'm shedding tears for the man, pruner, but to dance on his grave like this is kind of dickish. Jerry Falwell was a special case.
posted by Epenthesis at 9:15 PM on June 4, 2007

Busithoth, from the main link:

Thomas entered Congress in a special election in 1989 to replace Dick Cheney when the future vice president was named defense secretary by the first President Bush. Thomas won that race with 52 percent of the vote.

In 1994, Thomas won his first Senate race by beating former Gov. Mike Sullivan 59 percent to 39 percent.

posted by Kattullus at 9:17 PM on June 4, 2007

And how, if Cheney was in the house, did this man, in the senate, replace him?

he replaced Cheney in the House in 89. He was re-elected to that seat in 90 & 92, then ran for the Senate seat being vacated by Malcom Wollop in 94, where he was re-elected in 2000 & 2006.
posted by pruner at 9:18 PM on June 4, 2007

Epenthesis... how, pray tell, am I dancing on his grave?
posted by pruner at 9:19 PM on June 4, 2007

If you can't say something nice...

Don't play innocent. If you can't force yourself to use the opportunity to offer condolences to his family, you can literally say nothing at all rather than saying something so tacky.
posted by Epenthesis at 9:33 PM on June 4, 2007

I honestly thought I'd posted a "." already, but apparently not.

.
posted by pruner at 9:35 PM on June 4, 2007

Since Senator Thomas was a member of the Republican party, the Wyoming Republican Party Central Committee will likely offer Governor Freudenthal a choice of three staunch Republicans.

I wonder if he can say that none of the staunch Republicans are acceptable, and at least keep the seat empty for a time...
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:54 PM on June 4, 2007

"The only good Republican is..."

Wait until you see who is annointed to replace him before you jump to any conclusions.
posted by three blind mice at 10:16 PM on June 4, 2007 [1 favorite]

I wonder if he can say that none of the staunch Republicans are acceptable, and at least keep the seat empty for a time...

No. Per Wyoming Statute § 22-18-111 (i), Governor Freudenthal must choose one of the three within five days of receiving the list:

If a vacancy occurs in the office of United States senator or in any state office other than the office of justice of the supreme court and the office of district court judge, the governor shall immediately notify in writing the chairman of the state central committee of the political party which the last incumbent represented at the time of his election under W.S. 22-6-120(a)(vii), or at the time of his appointment if not elected to office. The chairman shall call a meeting of the state central committee to be held not later than fifteen (15) days after he receives notice of the vacancy. At the meeting the state central committee shall select and transmit to the governor the names of three (3) persons qualified to fill the vacancy. Within five (5) days after receiving these three (3) names, the governor shall fill the vacancy by temporary appointment of one (1) of the three (3) to hold the office.

On the other hand, it appears that while the Wyoming Republican Party Central Committee is required to call a meeting to select these three candidates within fifteen days of notice of the vacancy, they don't have any statutory limit on how long they can take to select and transmit to the governor the names of the three candidates. So presumably the Wyoming Republican Party could choose to keep the seat empty for a time, but there isn't really any compelling reason why they would choose to do so.
posted by RichardP at 10:18 PM on June 4, 2007

Hey, I've got an idea. Flag it and move on.
posted by Optamystic at 1:33 AM on June 5, 2007

Wait, am I the only person genuinely interested in the process of choosing his replacement?

It's so damn arbitrary - I thought the most usual thing over there in Democracyland was for the Governor to choose someone of his own party, irrespective of the ex-Senator's party. This is, like, slightly more democratic. Amazing.
posted by imperium at 1:39 AM on June 5, 2007

.
Take it from me, agree or disagree with his policies, he was a good man who truly cared about this nation and fought for what he believed was right.
posted by mervin_shnegwood at 1:39 AM on June 5, 2007

This is actually a pretty good way to pick a replacement, I think.

it sounds like he was simply conservative, not evil

We could use more examples of that difference in Congress.
posted by EarBucket at 3:43 AM on June 5, 2007

Wyoming requires the governor to appoint an interim senator from a list of three candidates proposed by the state central committee of the political party with which the previous incumbent was affiliated

That is so damn sane. I'm with imperium, it's amazing to me that more states don't do this.
posted by mediareport at 5:51 AM on June 5, 2007

Is this a good way to pick a replacement? I tend to think it is not.

Let's say Craig Thomas was conservative, but not rabidly so (which seems to be the case according to those who know):

Now, the (unelected!) State Republican Committee, which is pressumably "hardcore" Republicans picks three extremely conservative people with viewpoints which are so far right as to be reprehensible to the people of Wyoming. Regardless of their views, the governor is left with Hobson's choice, and this group of unelected people can choose a U.S. Senator.

Anyone know if there's a special election or if the temporary appointment is for the remainder of the term?

How is this a good idea or in line with any sort of democratic ideal?
posted by JMOZ at 8:23 AM on June 5, 2007

Pardon my poor proofreading...
posted by JMOZ at 8:24 AM on June 5, 2007

[quote]How is this a good idea or in line with any sort of democratic ideal?[/quote]

I kind of see your point, but in many states the sitting governor gets to pick the replacement. In this case, the governor is a Democrat and the people of Wyo. reelected this Republican as senator--thus in some way it is in keeping with their wishes (if you think they voted for the party and not the man).

In South Dakota, the governor, a Republican, would presumably replace Senator Tim Johnson (D. S. Dak) with a Republican, and then the state would have a special election at the next national election date. Senator Johnson, fortunately (regardless of the replacement rules) seems to be recovering well from his brain surgery.

So, while I see your contention that the Wyo. law is not ideally democratic, it is the law of the state and can be changed either by referendum or by legislation (even if it requires amending the state constitution). The S. Dak. situation does not appear ideally democratic either, but it too is set by the people of the state.

My state, MI, has the same sort of law, I believe--the governor appoints who she wants, but has to call a special election.
posted by beelzbubba at 9:09 AM on June 5, 2007

And for those who are scared of conservatives and public land policy mixing, the original conservatives were hell bent on the definiton of conservation--think Teddy Roosevelt. Thomas was apparently of that mien, not the phony-conservatism of Cheney et al.
posted by beelzbubba at 9:12 AM on June 5, 2007

beelzbubba: ".... So, while I see your contention that the Wyo. law is not ideally democratic, it is the law of the state and can be changed either by referendum or by legislation (even if it requires amending the state constitution). The S. Dak. situation does not appear ideally democratic either, but it too is set by the people of the state."

Beelzbubba, I understand it's the law of the state. I wasn't debating that; instead, I was suggesting that it probably isn't a good or reasonable law and maybe should be changed (by whatever democratic process Wyoming uses).

I agree the S. Dakota situation (which I believe is quite common) isn't great either, but at least the governor is an elected official and has some accountability.

Perhaps the best practical solution would be for the the governor to appoint a replacement subject to the confirmation of the state legislature? Which is, interestingly enough, exactly how the 17th ammendment is written; the governor of S. Dakota could (were it necessary) appoint a Democrat, but only if the state legislature approved. I assume Wyoming's process also requires the approval of the state legislature? (otherwise, it's unconstitutional.)
posted by JMOZ at 10:57 AM on June 5, 2007

I'm with JMOZ on the SD vs. WY thing. Special election would be grand, but expensive to mount. As much as I hated the idea that the Senate would be thrown back to the Rebupnicons in the event of Sen. Johnson's death, it is more democratic than having the party choose replacements.

What's really bizarre is that the Gov in Wy can't refuse the list and ask for a new one. Even laws passed by a majority of the leg can be vetoed, but not, apparently, this list.
posted by Mental Wimp at 11:53 AM on June 5, 2007

Yeah I see your point(s). I'll continue to monitor the health of Sens. Levin & Stabenow.
posted by beelzbubba at 1:14 PM on June 5, 2007

My understanding is that the founding fathers set up direct elections largely to put a stop to the power of political parties. This situation marks a particularly amusing perversion of that intent. Similarly, we lost the right to vote for individuals and must now vote for parties in Washington State.
posted by efbrazil at 1:40 PM on June 5, 2007