CitySearch for Food Blogs
June 5, 2007 5:40 AM Subscribe
Web 2.0 and the restaurant world. Clever idea - the site organizes restaurant reviews by food bloggers into a database akin to CitySearch. So far its up in New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles.
This post was deleted for the following reason: self-link, banned -- mathowie
I didn't get any hatred from "the established media" in that article - some sour grapes from restaurateurs who don't know how to deal with criticism, yes.
And, what does blogsoop have that Yelp doesn't?
posted by grubby at 6:56 AM on June 5, 2007
And, what does blogsoop have that Yelp doesn't?
posted by grubby at 6:56 AM on June 5, 2007
Kridech said he begged Yelp staffers to have a complimentary meal at Senses, hoping that would turn the tide for his restaurant. Instead, he says, Yelp offered to sell him an ad in which a positive posting -- including a line from the restaurant thanking the reviewer for the kind words and noting that the business is a sponsor of the site -- is placed above all other critiques.
As much as I dislike restauranteurs getting upset over honest reviews, I think that's a perfectly fair — damning, even — criticism of a food blog.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:18 AM on June 5, 2007
As much as I dislike restauranteurs getting upset over honest reviews, I think that's a perfectly fair — damning, even — criticism of a food blog.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 7:18 AM on June 5, 2007
what does blogsoop have that Yelp doesn't?
It sounds like it's totally distributed, which is cool. If they're really just sucking up reviews from remote blog posts, that means you don't have to create an account and login and rewrite the review you already plopped into your blog.
posted by mathowie at 7:35 AM on June 5, 2007
It sounds like it's totally distributed, which is cool. If they're really just sucking up reviews from remote blog posts, that means you don't have to create an account and login and rewrite the review you already plopped into your blog.
posted by mathowie at 7:35 AM on June 5, 2007
RE: I didn't get any hatred from "the established media" in that article
The article totally ignores the social aspect of online reviews. Its as if people were writing in some sort of social vacuum.
This goes for yelp as it does for food bloggers - or even criticism on Metafilter. The media just doesn't 'get' the fact that people online can serve as trusted peers.
posted by 2shay at 7:38 AM on June 5, 2007
The article totally ignores the social aspect of online reviews. Its as if people were writing in some sort of social vacuum.
This goes for yelp as it does for food bloggers - or even criticism on Metafilter. The media just doesn't 'get' the fact that people online can serve as trusted peers.
posted by 2shay at 7:38 AM on June 5, 2007
The Chron paragraph makes it sound as if Yelp is offering him something exceptional, makes it sound sinister, like extortion, when that's actually their standard advertising package.
Yelp also has some pretty sensible advice on dealing with bad reviews, at least part of which he admits to disregarding (he tried to bribe Yelp staffers).
The fellow doesn't sound too media-savvy, really, and that's perhaps his complaint - no longer is it a "Fawlty Towers" world of predicting when the reviewer from the Michelin Guide is going to pay a visit - you have to treat everyone as a reviewer. That also involves doing PR to manage criticism, when it comes, as the Yelp guide suggests.
Sorry for the derail - I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Yelp; they're just a site I know well, and as such serve as an example of a "food blog" for the purposes of argument.
posted by grubby at 7:43 AM on June 5, 2007
Yelp also has some pretty sensible advice on dealing with bad reviews, at least part of which he admits to disregarding (he tried to bribe Yelp staffers).
The fellow doesn't sound too media-savvy, really, and that's perhaps his complaint - no longer is it a "Fawlty Towers" world of predicting when the reviewer from the Michelin Guide is going to pay a visit - you have to treat everyone as a reviewer. That also involves doing PR to manage criticism, when it comes, as the Yelp guide suggests.
Sorry for the derail - I don't want to turn this into a discussion about Yelp; they're just a site I know well, and as such serve as an example of a "food blog" for the purposes of argument.
posted by grubby at 7:43 AM on June 5, 2007
The media just doesn't 'get' the fact that people online can serve as trusted peers.
Trusted peers? Why are people who happen to yammer about restaurants in blogs any more trustworthy than people who do so over the phone or in bars? I went to the NYC site; the first restaurant on the list was Babbo, and the first review said in its first paragraph:
I had never heard of sweetbreads
You can trust advice on restaurants from people who have never heard of sweetbreads if you like; I'll stick to professional reviewers or people I have other reasons to trust, thanks.
posted by languagehat at 7:50 AM on June 5, 2007
Trusted peers? Why are people who happen to yammer about restaurants in blogs any more trustworthy than people who do so over the phone or in bars? I went to the NYC site; the first restaurant on the list was Babbo, and the first review said in its first paragraph:
I had never heard of sweetbreads
You can trust advice on restaurants from people who have never heard of sweetbreads if you like; I'll stick to professional reviewers or people I have other reasons to trust, thanks.
posted by languagehat at 7:50 AM on June 5, 2007
I'll stick to professional reviewers or people I have other reasons to trust, thanks.
That's the reason social networking review sites work: the network establishes trust. It's not just some random conversation overheard in a bar - you can check the reviewer's credentials, find out what they thought of places you know personally, etc.
To me, not having that could be a downside to Blogsoop: they're aggregating content, but not its trust context.
posted by grubby at 7:55 AM on June 5, 2007
That's the reason social networking review sites work: the network establishes trust. It's not just some random conversation overheard in a bar - you can check the reviewer's credentials, find out what they thought of places you know personally, etc.
To me, not having that could be a downside to Blogsoop: they're aggregating content, but not its trust context.
posted by grubby at 7:55 AM on June 5, 2007
good point grubby. the real value might be the aggregate opinion of all the reviews for a particular restaurant - something like rottentomatoes
posted by 2shay at 8:08 AM on June 5, 2007
posted by 2shay at 8:08 AM on June 5, 2007
"Why are people who happen to yammer about restaurants in blogs any more trustworthy than people who do so over the phone or in bars?"
The answer, of course, is that they're not - but all 2shay was saying is that people online "can" be trusted peers. I think it depends what for you falls into the bracket of "other reasons to trust". A major food guide, magazine or newpaper will have certain standards to uphold and a brand name to maintain so I suppose that gives you some level of comfort. Ultimately though you trust reviews, be they of books, films, restaurants or whatever, on the history of the reviewer - you follow the reviews in the NYT or whatever and get a feel for people's opinions and their descriptions. If, over time, these match yours, you trust them.
Put it this way, if I look through your reviews on LibraryThing and you give positive reviews of books that I have liked then I'm obviously more likely to trust your review of a book that I don't know than if you hated my favourites. Why is that much different from me taking the advice of a review in the Guardian written by a "professional" who was paid to do it (though clearly the piece of writing that is the review may be very different)?
On the other hand, I think 2shay is wrong about the aggregation -- taste in these matters is very personal (more so for experiential things than consumer products perhaps) and so an aggregation of views isn't much help.
posted by patricio at 8:34 AM on June 5, 2007
The answer, of course, is that they're not - but all 2shay was saying is that people online "can" be trusted peers. I think it depends what for you falls into the bracket of "other reasons to trust". A major food guide, magazine or newpaper will have certain standards to uphold and a brand name to maintain so I suppose that gives you some level of comfort. Ultimately though you trust reviews, be they of books, films, restaurants or whatever, on the history of the reviewer - you follow the reviews in the NYT or whatever and get a feel for people's opinions and their descriptions. If, over time, these match yours, you trust them.
Put it this way, if I look through your reviews on LibraryThing and you give positive reviews of books that I have liked then I'm obviously more likely to trust your review of a book that I don't know than if you hated my favourites. Why is that much different from me taking the advice of a review in the Guardian written by a "professional" who was paid to do it (though clearly the piece of writing that is the review may be very different)?
On the other hand, I think 2shay is wrong about the aggregation -- taste in these matters is very personal (more so for experiential things than consumer products perhaps) and so an aggregation of views isn't much help.
posted by patricio at 8:34 AM on June 5, 2007
You can trust advice on restaurants from people who have never heard of sweetbreads if you like; I'll stick to professional reviewers or people I have other reasons to trust, thanks.
posted by languagehat at 9:50 AM on June 5
I think you pretty much nailed it there. That being said, food bloggers can be come trusted over time in an area. For instance, there is a neat food blog here in Dallas written by a guy who may have never heard of sweetbreads. But this guy went and had every chicken fried steak in Dallas and rated each one of them. I was able to tell what he liked and compare it to my likes and get a good idea of which places I should try for some CFS. Now if this same guy went to Stephen Pyle's restaurant and told me that he thought blood orange was an uninspired choice in a particular ceviche, I probably wouldn't give him any credence.
posted by dios at 8:42 AM on June 5, 2007
posted by languagehat at 9:50 AM on June 5
I think you pretty much nailed it there. That being said, food bloggers can be come trusted over time in an area. For instance, there is a neat food blog here in Dallas written by a guy who may have never heard of sweetbreads. But this guy went and had every chicken fried steak in Dallas and rated each one of them. I was able to tell what he liked and compare it to my likes and get a good idea of which places I should try for some CFS. Now if this same guy went to Stephen Pyle's restaurant and told me that he thought blood orange was an uninspired choice in a particular ceviche, I probably wouldn't give him any credence.
posted by dios at 8:42 AM on June 5, 2007
people online "can" be trusted peers
food bloggers can be come trusted over time in an area
Oh, sure, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise—there are some great food blogs out there (and now I want to read the chicken fried steak guy). I was just reacting (probably overreacting) to the "OMG dumb traditional media doesn't understand how AWESOME blogs are!" vibe, which always makes my teeth ache. As with anything else, 90% of blogs are crud.
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on June 5, 2007
food bloggers can be come trusted over time in an area
Oh, sure, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise—there are some great food blogs out there (and now I want to read the chicken fried steak guy). I was just reacting (probably overreacting) to the "OMG dumb traditional media doesn't understand how AWESOME blogs are!" vibe, which always makes my teeth ache. As with anything else, 90% of blogs are crud.
posted by languagehat at 9:15 AM on June 5, 2007
As with anything else, 90% of blogs are crud.
posted by languagehat at 11:15 AM on June 5
Now you are being too generous.
posted by dios at 9:23 AM on June 5, 2007
posted by languagehat at 11:15 AM on June 5
Now you are being too generous.
posted by dios at 9:23 AM on June 5, 2007
There is certainly quite a bit of "crud" out on the net. It makes me wonder what it takes to get a review listed on this site.
I've taken a moment and compiled a side by side comparison of one of my favorite restaurants out in LA, Tender Greens:
Tender Greens on MenuPages
Tender Greens on Yelp
Tender Greens on Blogsoop
Tender Greens on CitySearch
posted by 2shay at 9:36 AM on June 5, 2007
I've taken a moment and compiled a side by side comparison of one of my favorite restaurants out in LA, Tender Greens:
Tender Greens on MenuPages
Tender Greens on Yelp
Tender Greens on Blogsoop
Tender Greens on CitySearch
posted by 2shay at 9:36 AM on June 5, 2007
Man, I can't stand reading the reviews at Yelp. I start getting really upset. Half of them consist of "Well, I haven't actually eaten at this place but they never returned my call when I tried to make a reservation! 1 star!" Thats a review?
Or another favorite place of mine, which is small and intimate and why I love it, to see it get blasted by some bozo because they couldn't accomodate his party of 10. Ugh.
I do use it to get current addresses and hours and to track new restaurant openings. Its good for that. But thats it.
posted by vacapinta at 9:40 AM on June 5, 2007
Or another favorite place of mine, which is small and intimate and why I love it, to see it get blasted by some bozo because they couldn't accomodate his party of 10. Ugh.
I do use it to get current addresses and hours and to track new restaurant openings. Its good for that. But thats it.
posted by vacapinta at 9:40 AM on June 5, 2007
(and now I want to read the chicken fried steak guy)
And if you are interested (even though its local color), you can check the guy's mission out here. He also tried all the BBQ places and rated all of them down to the little shacks on the side of the highway (Metafilter post where I learned about him). My favorite thing he did was try out all these mama and papa Mexican joints on Maple Ave. here in Dallas. Maple is this road that runs through a heavy Mexican area and there are dozens of these Mexican restaurants one after another. Apparently this guy doesn't have a kitchen in his house.
/dallasfilter
posted by dios at 9:41 AM on June 5, 2007
And if you are interested (even though its local color), you can check the guy's mission out here. He also tried all the BBQ places and rated all of them down to the little shacks on the side of the highway (Metafilter post where I learned about him). My favorite thing he did was try out all these mama and papa Mexican joints on Maple Ave. here in Dallas. Maple is this road that runs through a heavy Mexican area and there are dozens of these Mexican restaurants one after another. Apparently this guy doesn't have a kitchen in his house.
/dallasfilter
posted by dios at 9:41 AM on June 5, 2007
I was just reacting (probably overreacting) to the "OMG dumb traditional media doesn't understand how AWESOME blogs are!" vibe, which always makes my teeth ache.
Automatic mistrust of subjective reviews, especially those which come from sites that "adjust" their subjectivity in response to advertising revenue, is a pretty valid feeling. You're not overreacting.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:51 AM on June 5, 2007
Automatic mistrust of subjective reviews, especially those which come from sites that "adjust" their subjectivity in response to advertising revenue, is a pretty valid feeling. You're not overreacting.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:51 AM on June 5, 2007
Now I'm salivating for Mexican food from Dallas. I really developed a nasty habit for Eatzi's, which was amazing, I didn't care if I had to stand in line with a bunch of Par Ave. type girls (straight hair, huge sunglasses) for a good 15 minutes to get my sandwich.
posted by geoff. at 10:31 AM on June 5, 2007
posted by geoff. at 10:31 AM on June 5, 2007
All you need is to search the forums in chowhound.com. Fair, discriminating, and off beat enough that a good review doesn't kill the restaurant witha flood of business it can't cope with.
Until of course chowhound gets found out by the masses.
posted by Fupped Duck at 8:29 PM on June 5, 2007
Until of course chowhound gets found out by the masses.
posted by Fupped Duck at 8:29 PM on June 5, 2007
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posted by 2shay at 6:30 AM on June 5, 2007