Arrivederci Soprani

June 9, 2007 9:37 AM

Farewell to the Sopranos[NPR Audio link] Jerry Capeci, who runs the organized crime website GangLandNews.com, tells Madeleine Brand how he thinks the series will end.
posted by psmealey (72 comments total)

Interview with the ordinarily media shy James Gandolfini in the Newark Star-Ledger.
posted by psmealey at 9:45 AM on June 9, 2007

I'm betting that Paulie Walnuts has been bought by the NYC mob and he is the one to kill Tony and take over the family.
posted by vronsky at 9:45 AM on June 9, 2007

Pyschoanalyzing the Sopranos.
posted by psmealey at 9:48 AM on June 9, 2007

I was wondering if anyone was going to post something Soprano here this weekend.

I'm never usually one to get too excited about a TV series, but it has to be said that I'm really looking forward to the finale, as I'm keen to find out how they end it. The series has fascinated me because of the characters' abilities to compartmentalize their lives.
posted by Zinger at 9:49 AM on June 9, 2007

The TV series taught us that New Jersey was one of the states in the USA...for many, this was something not known. For others, perhaps time to dump that state and make due with 49.
I had read that Christopher, who now bought a small theatre in lower Manhattan, wrote some 6 of the scrdipts for the series and that explains why he is seen in a few sequences as a would-be drama writer. They can all get killed for all I care. When Adriana got offed I lost my favorite reason for viewing.
posted by Postroad at 10:02 AM on June 9, 2007

-Vic Mackey realizes it was all a dream.

Then he sees an envelope on his desk from Kavanaugh-

-at which point Officer Boscorelli realizes it was all a dream.

He becomes aware that he's strapped down on a gurney, in the hallway of a psychiatric ward, and begins to shout-

-at which point Deputy D.A. McNorris realizes it was all a dream.

He becomes aware of the smell of liquor on his shirt, and notices the blood smeared on the front bumper of his car-

-at which point Andy Sipowicz realizes it was all a dream.

He stares up from the table he's strapped to, and notices the aliens preparing to probe him-

-At which point Tommy Gavin realizes it was all a dream.

He stares at the overhead fixture which briefly knocked him unconscious, while staggering to his feet. As he makes his way out of the burning building, he sees a stack of rental DVDs; some of them are porn titles. He takes a few of these, and stuffs them into one of the pockets of his firefighter's jacket. Behind his protective mask, we see him grin slyly, as he proceeds to exit the structure.
posted by Smart Dalek at 10:04 AM on June 9, 2007

Postroad, Christopher's story got a lot more interesting after Aide died. Too bad you missed it.
posted by k8t at 10:06 AM on June 9, 2007

It has had its ups and downs over the years, but even at its most disappointing, it was still the best show on television.

In its first couple of seasons, I think Six Feet Under was better. But after that, the show got weighed down so heavily by its own clichés and became brutally fatiguing to unwatchable. The Sopranos has always done well to keep fresh story angles, richly complex characters and believeable plotlines.
posted by Flem Snopes at 10:11 AM on June 9, 2007

witness protection
posted by clavdivs at 11:06 AM on June 9, 2007

I'm betting that Paulie Walnuts has been bought by the NYC mob and he is the one to kill Tony and take over the family.

Yeah, you, me, my barber, my dentist, and some of my co-workers agree.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:32 AM on June 9, 2007

I'm betting that Paulie Walnuts has been bought by the NYC mob and he is the one to kill Tony and take over the family.

While that would not be terribly surprising (Paulie did make overtures to Jonny Sack a few seasons back) from the standpoint of setup, I don't think it will go down that way, for one reason. I believe that whatever happens, Chase will give us a satifying ending.

Tony being taken down by Paulie, a hapless, motormouthed, whiny stooge who has never figured into most of the central plotlines of the series, would be incredibly unsatisfying.
posted by psmealey at 11:52 AM on June 9, 2007

I've always thought the Sopranos was sort of absent-minded fun to watch, kind of highbrow popcorn, and I could never really understand how it could be so many people's very favorite show, exactly. Which isn't to denigrate anyone's taste, but I would really enjoy it if the show pulled a reverse Seinfeld, and the last thirty minutes of the finale (I don't care how they get there) consisted of Tony and Paulie hanging out in a big-city apartment, trading quips and musing over the proper protocols & ramifications of asking out a woman in a wheelchair or whatever, and then the show ends with a little doingy guitar riff and the logo.

Bonus points if they actually got Michael Richards to guest-star in the final thirty minutes.
posted by furiousthought at 11:54 AM on June 9, 2007

I didn't know they recruited actual gansters for the cast.
posted by Burhanistan at 11:55 AM on June 9, 2007

As the owner of a 1984 Deloran I have brough back news from the near future:

Tony performs a successful counter-attack which decaptitates the NYC family. Phil and his most trusted captains have been killed. AJ is in league with the terrorists, Paulie finds out, and kills him. In a rage Tony killed Paulie. The show ends with Tony rebuilding his New Jersey and NYC empires.
posted by damn dirty ape at 12:16 PM on June 9, 2007

Television Without Pity, for those who haven't been there, has forums for each episode. Last week's, for example, has 1578 posts as of this writing.

That's in addition to weekly recaps such as last week's. Like Metafilter, it's a repository of much wisdom. Some of it is even true.
posted by palancik at 12:25 PM on June 9, 2007

Shouldn't this have ended 2 or 3 seasons ago?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:43 PM on June 9, 2007

I agree w/psmealey; I don't think Paulie's going to rat out T. My money would be on Parisi as the mole...he did flee while Silvio took the brunt of the gunshots.

And I like damn dirty ape's theory because it explains the unresolved Muslim dude storyline, while giving us the oh-so-satisfying experience of eliminating AJ. However, I suspect the show will end on a dismal note with Tony's death.
posted by Dr. Zira at 12:55 PM on June 9, 2007

We still need to tie back somehow to the Russian guy that got away in the Pine Barrens, Uncle Joon, Adrianna (who some diehards claim is still alive) and Furio.
posted by psmealey at 1:08 PM on June 9, 2007

I kinda thought the unresolved Muslim dude storyline was building to a terrorist attack in the last episode.

I agree that Parisi is sketchy and probably still bitter about Tony killing his brother in the war with Uncle Junior. Also odd that Meadow is over at his house, dating his son.
posted by Taargus Taargus at 1:59 PM on June 9, 2007

I like the Parisi angle too. He has been acting suspiciously nice this season. Season 3 ort 4 he was pissing in Tony's pool.
posted by vronsky at 2:01 PM on June 9, 2007

The thing I don't understand is what's the motivation for the FBI agent to tip off Tony that there's a hit planned on him? Is it really all to say thanks for the tip about the Arabs, or is he trying to engineer a confrontation between the NY and NJ mobs?

I think A.J. is going to be involved in whatever goes down at the end. I think Tony's going to die. When A.J. witnesses that, he'll enlist his friends to help him take out Phil. The Soprano crime family will be reborn under A.J., since none of the old guard will be left.
posted by emelenjr at 3:10 PM on June 9, 2007

I think the subject of terrorism is only being raised for sake of irony - that people will look halfway around the world for trouble rather than confront the dangers on their doorstep. AJ's anxiety over the Arab-Israeli conflict is a surrogate for the actual worries in his life: that his father is a murderer, and that AJ, though unwilling to live by the sword, could still die by it. These people are in more danger of being killed by their own relatives than by a jihadi's bomb, and the writers know it, and the audience knows it.

I could never really understand how it could be so many people's very favorite show, exactly

I think it took the suburban American dream to a dark place it didn't know it led to. It doesn't elevate the mob to the level of middle-class family - rather, it denigrates them to a mob, says that most of us have the same values at heart.
posted by kid ichorous at 3:24 PM on June 9, 2007

Although they say there won't be a Sopranos film sometime in the future, I think they'll want to keep that option open so I don't think they'll kill off Tony. Plus everyone seems to be expecting him to die which is probably reason enough for Chase not to go that way.

Whereas other series tend to end each season with a cliffhanger, the Sopranos never really did. Along those lines, I think all of the decimation was in the last episode and now they'll end the series gracefully leaving a lot unresolved just like they do at the end of each season.

I won't be able to watch until Monday night so hopefully the headlines on Monday won't give too much away. Might have to turn off the internet completely all day Monday.
posted by gfrobe at 3:24 PM on June 9, 2007

I could never really understand how it could be so many people's very favorite show, exactly

I think a big part of it is the complex, well written characters and how well they're brought to life in the quality of acting. Carmela Soprano is a great example; you get to watch this woman and decide for yourself whether you think she's a character with whom you want to sympathize or not. Sometimes you feel badly for her for having to endure all of Tony's crap and root for her to establish her independence and make a better life for herself and her kids, all the while realizing that she's probably never going to do that because that would require her to give up her her swanky house and her jewelry and her fancy stuff that Tony's crimes bought for her. Occasionally you get to see beyond her facade of denial and witness brief glimpses of realization...I mean, after all, she's always known Adriana's dead, hasn't she? And there was a shot of her looking into the casket at the funeral a few episodes back that made me think she also somehow knew what went down between T and Christopher.
Contrast that with an episode of "Lost" in which the writers don't leave any delicious ambiguity to resolve on our own. Sure, there are mysteries regarding the plot, but with regard to the characters themselves, they pretty much tell us with contrived flashbacks whether or not we are supposed to like/sympathize with these characters or not. Yay Hurley! Boo Ben! Maybe we like Juliet, maybe not (plot-related mystery depending upon how the writers want to manipulate us - but ultimately the writers tell us what to believe); there's very little complexity other than a shallow backstory.
posted by Dr. Zira at 4:37 PM on June 9, 2007

I'm hoping every single character, including the children, are killed off in the most horrible ways imaginable, but even if that were to happen you couildn't get me to watch the final epsisode of that show. Man, did I hate it, could only stomach one season.
posted by zarah at 5:32 PM on June 9, 2007 [1 favorite]

I'm hoping every single character, including the children, are killed off in the most horrible ways imaginable...

Arah, they already did that on OZ.
posted by punkrockrat at 8:00 PM on June 9, 2007

It's called The Sopranos. I don't see how it can end with Tony still alive.

Parisi has a reason to turn--didn't T kill his brother or am I thinking of someone else.

To me, it shoulda ended a good long while ago. The fifth season was disappointing and the first half of the sixth was dreck.

the best show on television

You mean after Deadwood, right?
posted by dobbs at 8:08 PM on June 9, 2007

I don't particularly care whether Tony gets whacked or busted or if he whacks Phil Leotardo. The one thing I need to see in this final episode is Carmela realizing that Tony had Aide whacked.
posted by alidarbac at 8:22 PM on June 9, 2007

Somehow, I always assumed the final tableau for the series would be Dr. Melfi standing over Tony's body with a smoking gun.
posted by RavinDave at 8:39 PM on June 9, 2007

It's funny, I'm a big fan of The Wire, Rome, and The Sopranos, in that order, but I can't make it through ten minutes of Deadwood or Six Feet Under. Alan Ball is the worst writer in Hollywood.
posted by vronsky at 8:46 PM on June 9, 2007

You mean after Deadwood, right?

No, I mean before Deadwood, cocksucker. ;-)

As far as it goes, I love the genre, I always have, even though I abhor the violence. It's weird but the thing that makes the show great to me, is not that it's some sort of Shakespearean or Aeschylan morality play, far from it. It's the banality. It's how the actors fully inhabit the characters.

A lot of actors can do "great", Brando pulling off the stateliness of Vito Corleone, Pacino doing his best Hamlet in expressing the tumult of the internal conflict of Michael, DeNiro revelling in the malevolence of Al Capone, etc. What Gandolfini pulls off is something more simple, buty ultimately much more complex. He's the simpering, whiny, self-pitying tough guy with unresolved mommy issues that leads a crew of brutal men (all of whom are whiny and self-indulgent in their own right). He betrays, he kills he schemes, but you still can't help empathising with him. Then there's Edie Falco's Carmela, a thoroughly amoral Lady MacBeth who cheerfully overlooksthe source of their income to worry her consumerist issues. Phil Leotardo, an embittered chip on his shoulder Richard III character who's still upset at his family name being mispelled at Ellis Island, And so on.

It's a great show, and we love it because we relate, and pity these characters. They are petty, weak, pitiable, ruthless and powerful. They are the scum that we scrape off the bottom of our shoes, but they are larger than life.
posted by psmealey at 9:26 PM on June 9, 2007

F'in well said psmealey.

My take on the Sopranos is that it is very much like David Chase's other great show, Northern Exposure. It can be hit or miss, but when it is good, it is better than anything else you have ever seen. Magical and complex and cinematic. Comedic, and tragic, and ultimately, very human.
posted by vronsky at 10:00 PM on June 9, 2007

My only request to D. Chase would be to somehow let Silvio live. He's like a commedia dell'arte character, serving as much needed comic relief right before the tragic shit goes down and blows everyone away.
posted by Dr. Zira at 11:18 PM on June 9, 2007

Many of my fave moments from The Sopranos are small details. Chase and his writers are masterful observers of human nature, and of American society. The show is unblinkingly honest about New Jersey, the American suburbs, and human foibles.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:21 AM on June 10, 2007

P.S. Fave moment from last week:

Tony and Silvio re-enacting a slo-mo boxing match from Raging Bull in the restaurant...

...followed by a smash cut to a sign reading FLATBUSH BIKINI WAXING.
posted by Artifice_Eternity at 12:24 AM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

Was Furio a character (read: storyline) that just never developed as Chase intended? Maybe he didn't click with the audience? Just seems that they went to a lot of trouble to bring him in, tried to force some sparks with Carmela ... then packed him off back to Italy.
posted by RavinDave at 12:57 AM on June 10, 2007

Coming Soon: The Prequel
posted by robot at 8:26 AM on June 10, 2007

Die hard fans of the show should rent all the episodes of Northern Exposure and find the parallels and similarities. The Jewish money man Hesch had a recurring role as Joel's "dream" Rabbi. In the final season, when Paul Provenza took over the lead role, there is a proto Sopranos episode when he discovers a small section of Cicely is inhabited by Italian Americans who are feuding over some long forgotten slight. There is even a sitdown between the two families at the end. (this show is really worth seeking out). The cop Christopher shot because he thought he had killed his father was a hard drinking priest on NE. Then there were the Indians who ran the casinos and protested Columbus Day. These are just off the top of my head. Also the dream sequence episodes. And the scene where Tony runs from the FBI when he was visiting Johnny Sac. he walks up to his house through the backyard, pushing the brush out of his way is very reminiscent of the final scene of NE when Joel walks through the forest, pushing the tree limbs out of his way to find the magical city of New York in the Alaskan wilderness.
posted by vronsky at 9:44 AM on June 10, 2007 [1 favorite]

Holy shit. I can honestly say I did not see that ending coming.
posted by Dr. Zira at 7:07 PM on June 10, 2007

Angy fans crash HBO website (Nikki Finke is pissed)
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:29 PM on June 10, 2007

*Claps* ....I guess I'm one of the few that enjoyed this episode...it was well done if you use your imagination a bit.
posted by samsara at 10:21 PM on June 10, 2007

Wow ... I expected some grumbling, regardless of the ending -- but HBO is really being pilloried. Though not quite up there with gimmicks "Bobby in the shower" or the 80's show that was all in the mind of an autistic child -- it's generating a lot of anger and derision. Though I can't get that wrapped up in a dang show -- I can see their point. It has the earmarks of lazy writing being presented as "art" and if you don't appreciate the nuance, well ... you're just a peasant clod.

I don't buy it.
posted by RavinDave at 11:29 PM on June 10, 2007

The ending was fantastic.

Nothing.ever.changes.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:02 AM on June 11, 2007

I didn't hate the ending, but it was pretty much of a cop out. The tension in that final scene was incredible, however. Very odd that they chose to do what they did.
posted by psmealey at 2:40 AM on June 11, 2007

I think that although it was not the ending that I wanted, it was probably the best and most appropriate ending that would still allow us to value the series. I am satisfied. YMMV.
posted by grubi at 5:56 AM on June 11, 2007

Frankly, I don't see how you can say that. The number of classic open-ended stories at your local library would probably fit on half a shelf. At best, they simply don't resonate with people, at worst, they make us suspicious that we're being "played" by a sloppy author; expected to do his work for him.
posted by RavinDave at 7:22 AM on June 11, 2007

Your complaint sounds more like they didn't give you what you wanted them to give you than what needed to be given. The only complaint people seem to have is that the writers failed to serve their audience, but the truth is that writers are supposed to serve the story.

Story's been served. It fits.
posted by grubi at 7:26 AM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

This non-ending opens up the series to movies with the main Sopranos characters in-tact. It also pisses on the "comon' kill a lot of people already" sentiment which is good, but could have done it in a better way. its a little too avante-garde for my tastes and considering this is a violent show about mobsters I think it was somewhat inappropriate.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:28 AM on June 11, 2007

If all it is to you is a violent show about mobsters, than you've missed all the subtleties and beauty this series has to offer.

I agree the story was served and it ended the best way they could have done it.
posted by agregoli at 7:35 AM on June 11, 2007 [2 favorites]

Someone on MSNBC said that if you check the the credits at the end, a few people in the diner have appeared before including a relative of Phil's and two guys who previously tried to whack Tony. Would also be curious whether the guy going into the bathroom was seen before.

Anyone have the credits so we can google the diner guys?
posted by gfrobe at 7:44 AM on June 11, 2007

The ending was fantastic.

Nothing.ever.changes.


I'm inclined to think Tony got whacked and that's when the lights went out. You never see it coming.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:14 AM on June 11, 2007

I'm a big fan of the ending. Those that complain such an ending rarely works aren't thinking of the context. This was a long series, throughout which collectively, as a society, we all speculated if and how Tony would get killed.

It's TV - you can play on all of the audience expectations and the collective water cooler talk. What doesn't work in books or even movies is perfect here.
posted by Muddler at 8:36 AM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

This wasn't playing on expectations. It was doing the most obvious. It's what a freshmen who has written himself into a box would do in Creative Writing 101. I mean, it's not like Chase was rushed for time (like "Angel") or cut off in mid-season. He had plenty of time to develop a satisfying and organic ending instead of slapping a gimmick on it.
posted by RavinDave at 9:06 AM on June 11, 2007

From CunningLinguist's link:

The Nielsen reality is that people don't watch TV closely anymore, much less remember what went on from week to week, to give such a subtle ending its proper due. Besides, The Sopranos was not a show that went on inside your head.

This? This is a spectacularly assinine bit of faux-profundity. Dead wrong in analysis and totally misguided in argument - all in two sentences. "David Chase owed his audience a spoonfed pat ending because that's what they're used to. Plus it's a show about killings and shit, amirite?"

I'm amazed at the vitriol in general. How could you watch 7 seasons of this show and expect a pat ending? I'd've felt cheated if it was just a bloodbath in a diner, you know? I'm loving the ambiguity. And frankly, I think it's awfully good writing that leaves you with this much to chew on.
posted by gompa at 9:11 AM on June 11, 2007 [3 favorites]

Hear, hear.

AND:

It was doing the most obvious.

The most obvious thing was to end it like that? What universe are you living in? The most obvious thing was the expected bloodbath that people are railing about not getting.

You aren't much of a Sopranos viewer if you think THAT was the obvious ending.
posted by grubi at 9:20 AM on June 11, 2007

I disliked the episode because it encapsulated things I disliked about the entire last season. Spending too much time on things I didn't care about (A.J., Gay Vito). The scenes with Junior were unnecessary because we already knew Junior was vegged out from the last shot of one of the recent episodes. (Like how we didn't need Godfather III because everything we needed to know was in the last shot of Godfather II.) They spent way too much time on A.J. over the last couple of episodes. We already knew he was a fuckup. If the point of the last episode was that mob life is banal, we already knew that. If the point was that everyone's a potential threat to Tony, we already knew that.

Season Six opened with William S. Burroughs' "Seven Souls," but that never went anywhere.

Did Tony see himself when he walked into the diner? Was it symbolism or a screwup? Who cares?

From the HBO boards:

If you take a minute to read the end credits, you'll see that the guy sitting at the counter is "Nicky Leotardo", Phil Leotardo's nephew. Why would he show up at Holsten's in Bloomfield NJ the day/day after his uncle is murdered by Tony's guys? The guy in the booth with the USA hat is a guy that was ripped off by Christopher for some dvd players a while ago. What's he doing there? Those two black guys that walked into the store, they're identified in the credits as the same two people that shot Tony in an episode 2-3 years ago. Why are they there?

If that's true, did they decide to hold a convention of everyone with a grudge against Tony Soprano in the diner the Sopranos rarely go to?
posted by kirkaracha at 9:26 AM on June 11, 2007

Just doing a little more checking and for the sake of discussion, in the final scene the guy at the bar is listed in the credits as Nikki Leotardo. He made a brief appearance in season 6 and is the nephew of Phil.

The trucker in the restaurant was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in second season. The trucker had to identify the body. And the two black guys who came in were the ones who tried to kill Tony and failed at the end of first season.

There's also the three boy scouts in the diner who looked like the ones in the sports shop where Bobby was killed. And remember Bobby and Tony having the conversation about how you never see it comings, just black and then nothing.

I think it's a brilliant ending. Completely open for interpretation with lots of clues to ponder over. It's like Paul McCartney has died all over again!
posted by gfrobe at 9:38 AM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

Season Six opened with William S. Burroughs' "Seven Souls," but that never went anywhere.

It never went anywhere?!?! I'm still finding places to apply that season opener!

Also, how could it be the two black guys that tried to kill Tony before? One of them was killed by Tony at the time.
posted by agregoli at 9:49 AM on June 11, 2007

Or not by him, but regardless - he died at the time.
posted by agregoli at 10:41 AM on June 11, 2007

Well, I loved the ending when I thought it was ambiguous.

If it wasn't ambiguous--if you all are onto something with the convention of grudge-holders... That's even better.

Brilliant way to portray Tony's death. Not immediately obvious, but clear enough if you see the clues.
posted by torticat at 10:54 AM on June 11, 2007

Why was Meadow running in?
posted by ahimsakid at 11:37 AM on June 11, 2007

She was late.
posted by agregoli at 11:42 AM on June 11, 2007

Brilliant way to portray Tony's death. Not immediately obvious, but clear enough if you see the clues.

Obviously, only Ray Bradbury can tell us what Chase's intent was, but I don't think it was meant to point to Tony's death. I think that whole scene was an in-joke, or more appropriately, an in-barb aimed at tormenting the hypersensitive-to-detail hardcore Soprano fan base (replete with the none-to-subtle Godfather I reference). They might as well have had Big Pussy and Ralph Sifferedda hanging back in the corners, too.

When they flashed back to Bobby's conversation with Tony about not hearing the end coming, and everything going black that sets up the grand finale. The only thing was, Tony wasn't the one who died, it was us. We, the audience, got whacked.

I felt kind of disappointed at it last night, particularly since my heart was pounding audibly through the last five minutes, but the more I think about it, the more perfect the ending seems to me.
posted by psmealey at 12:18 PM on June 11, 2007 [3 favorites]

No idea if anyone's still reading, but I just rewatched the last 20 mins., and unless I misread, the guy at the counter was listed in the closing credits as "man at diner."

Also, on second viewing, the overall ambiguity dissipates to almost nothing, even if the specific question (Tony: whacked or not?) isn't clarified. By which I mean this is a very pointed snapshot of American decay to end with.

AJ, heretofore wracked with guilt and anger over his country's sins - and remember, he's been making smart-assed wasteful-America gags since the first season - is bombing around in a Beamer and giggling at the most grotesque scenes of his government's fiddling while Rome burns. Meadow's sold her soul for mild, self-absorbed career plans she'll inevitably abandon for a guy destined to become her dad's henchman. (After all those years in Harlem, in other words, she still can't even manage to parallel park like anything other than a smug North Jersey princess.) Carmela's making meaningless renos.

And then there's Tony. Not a sociopath, just a brutally efficient alpha male with a highly flexible moral compass. A guy who looks out for number one, takes what he can get, all that. An American (anti?)-hero at twilight, stuffing his face with the junkfood he used to love and nodding along idly to the junk-pop he used to dig, waiting to see where the next existential threat will come from and making the most of his cozy diner booth until it does. Does he get whacked on this night? What does it matter? What would be lost if he was gone, if any of them were?

These are people who've lost almost everyone they've ever cared about and pissed away everything they've ever believed in. There they are - there you are, America, is surely Chase's point - sitting in a diner-booth snapshot of your own faded glory, waiting to find out how much more you can lose before you start to actually feel it. It goes on and on and on and on . . .

This isn't ambiguity, really. This is a jeremiad.
posted by gompa at 12:35 PM on June 11, 2007 [12 favorites]

I'm coming around after initial disappointment too - the Sopranos wasn't a typical show - thank goodness it didn't end in a typical way.
posted by agregoli at 12:35 PM on June 11, 2007

If it was ended to serve the story - solid. Didn’t do it for me, but I see the justifications. Sort of the “serve yourself” ending. Number of ways Tony could end up - shot dead there in front of family like Phil, or an invalid like Uncle June, or whatever - doesn’t really matter because he’s been trapped in that thing of theirs all his life. Either he gets clipped there, or not, or he goes on being the boss or he doesn’t, AJ straightens out or he doesn’t, Meadow wakes up or doesn’t, Carm splits or not, doesn’t matter. Nothing is going to change either way because they’re all trapped in those lives and self-deceptions whether anyone lives or dies or whatever.
Which seemed to be the point of the juxtoposition of the “just so” in a resturant thing with the tension of impending doom. That’s the whole theme of the series man. And it ends in an undifferentiated way with no relief, change, or realization - just like their lives. And for the audiance, you want more, but there isn’t anymore ‘cos who the hell wants to live that life except vicariously (as some other people in the show do). But I’d rather that was made more explicit in the previous shows. Which is why I didn’t much care for the ending, it could maybe have been a bit more explicit (tough to do with ambiguity, I know) but mostly - more of a set up for it from previous (recent) shows. Only ones I can think of that really sets up that ending was the whole weird dream sequence one and maybe the one where Tony takes peyote. The ending itself - ok. But the last episodes didn’t seem to me to build to this where you’d get that.

Of course, if it was a set up for a movie - fuck them.
posted by Smedleyman at 12:41 PM on June 11, 2007 [3 favorites]

Rude Pundit: "Regarding The Sopranos and American Evil"
posted by kirkaracha at 1:19 PM on June 11, 2007 [1 favorite]

They will never do a movie. No way. Everyone on HBO's site seems to be in denial and expects a movie but no. David Chase would not do that. The actors would not do that. It's over.
posted by agregoli at 1:27 PM on June 11, 2007

No idea if anyone's still reading, but I just rewatched the last 20 mins., and unless I misread, the guy at the counter was listed in the closing credits as "man at diner."

Yeah, apparently the credit to Nikki Leotardo (which I read somewhere before posting above) is not true but somehow spread among the various Soprano discussions on the web. Same with the rest of the guys in the bar. No grudge holders present.
posted by gfrobe at 2:48 PM on June 11, 2007

In that last scene, the first view we get of Tony at the table (the really wide shot), Tony's not wearing the same shirt and leather jacket combo as he is when he walks in the diner. Did anyone else notice that?
posted by emelenjr at 7:15 PM on June 11, 2007

Really nice reading of that episode gompa. Well done. But I would quibble with one thing. Wasn't it really less about America than it was about the "human condition"? What would change if it was set in Russia, or Rome, or Baltimore, or Cicely Alaska, or St. Elsewhere?

And it wasn't the ending that bothered me so much as it was the hour preceding it. Kirkaracha is exactly right that AJ just is not a compelling enough character to take up that much of an episode. The problem was that they had killed off all the good actors on the last two segments. Lots of padding, not a lot of drama. But the show has been horrribly uneven in the last three years. But as I said above, when it was good, it was as good as it gets.
posted by vronsky at 8:07 PM on June 11, 2007

I actually relished the AJ scenes - he was a mini-Tony in his bathrobe, which was the point. "Always with the drama!"
posted by agregoli at 7:37 AM on June 12, 2007