Second time (un)lucky
June 13, 2007 11:19 PM Subscribe
A bowhead whale was recently killed off the coast of Alaska. When its hunters carved it up, they discovered someone else had attempted to kill it- more than a century earlier.
I read about this today, and it blew me away. That is goddamned crazy.
posted by brundlefly at 11:54 PM on June 13, 2007
posted by brundlefly at 11:54 PM on June 13, 2007
Oh if I could only favourite that again srboisvert...
posted by longbaugh at 11:54 PM on June 13, 2007
posted by longbaugh at 11:54 PM on June 13, 2007
Don't worry if it blew you away brundlefly - some fucker'll come along in 100 odd years and finish the job off properly.
posted by longbaugh at 11:55 PM on June 13, 2007
posted by longbaugh at 11:55 PM on June 13, 2007
This is a whale of a story!
Isn't it a little fishy he survived so long?
The original fisherman must have been a bow(n)headed guy!
This story had me whale blubbering in the theatre!
posted by ORthey at 12:02 AM on June 14, 2007
Isn't it a little fishy he survived so long?
The original fisherman must have been a bow(n)headed guy!
This story had me whale blubbering in the theatre!
posted by ORthey at 12:02 AM on June 14, 2007
Ha, that'll teach that whale for being so fucking old.
posted by mattoxic at 12:08 AM on June 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by mattoxic at 12:08 AM on June 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
100 years ago the men who rule Nantucket sent an unstoppable killing machine to assassinate the yet unborn John Conner. They failed. In 2007, they will try again.
posted by stavrogin at 12:10 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by stavrogin at 12:10 AM on June 14, 2007
My first thought was that it was a shame they killed the whale. My second thought, upon reading that these whales have lived for two centuries before, was what a striking change that would be. I mean, even this whale, which was killed at most three quarters of the way through its lifespan, was alive when Henry James was writing. Neat!
posted by The God Complex at 12:13 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by The God Complex at 12:13 AM on June 14, 2007
Depressing.
posted by Effigy2000 at 12:19 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by Effigy2000 at 12:19 AM on June 14, 2007
I don't think it is depressing. These people eat these whales. You can't go down to the store and buy affordable groceries on the north slope. Yer gonna eat muktuk.
posted by Foam Pants at 12:25 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by Foam Pants at 12:25 AM on June 14, 2007
The things you find when you chainsaw up a carcass...
posted by parallax7d at 12:25 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by parallax7d at 12:25 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Oh, and after some digging, I saw that the whale was likely killed on a subsistence hunt by Alaska Natives, which I suppose there is some solace in. Still, as someone who has always been taken by the mysteries of the sea, I find the death of the whale somewhat more unsettling that I care to admit. It just seems like an undignified end for a creature that lived through all the wars of the 20th century--and, given that all they've dated is the weapon that struck the whale (and I imagine there's no way to tell how old it was when the attack occurred), perhaps lived through much more: the civil war, the invention of the automobile, etc...
Dammit, why did you post this after midnight, when I'm feeling all sentimental and whatnot?
Yarr! Die stupid whale, die!
posted by The God Complex at 12:33 AM on June 14, 2007
Dammit, why did you post this after midnight, when I'm feeling all sentimental and whatnot?
Yarr! Die stupid whale, die!
posted by The God Complex at 12:33 AM on June 14, 2007
So, if you feed a god complex a fpp about whales after midnight, he gets sentimental and turns into a pirate? How like a Mogwai. How very much like a Mogwai.
posted by stavrogin at 12:40 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by stavrogin at 12:40 AM on June 14, 2007
I felt really bad for the whale, until I read it's website. STFU, geezer of the sea!
posted by maryh at 12:42 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by maryh at 12:42 AM on June 14, 2007
So, if you feed a god complex a fpp about whales after midnight, he gets sentimental and turns into a pirate? How like a Mogwai. How very much like a Mogwai.
Mogwai also happens to be one of my favorite bands. Are you my subconscious?
(And it was a pirate whaler for the record. Sort of an Eddie Teach meets Captain Ahab moment).
posted by The God Complex at 12:45 AM on June 14, 2007
Mogwai also happens to be one of my favorite bands. Are you my subconscious?
(And it was a pirate whaler for the record. Sort of an Eddie Teach meets Captain Ahab moment).
posted by The God Complex at 12:45 AM on June 14, 2007
Imagine living for 200 years and all you can do is... swim about. Maybe being shot in the head is a welcome distraction once every hundred years.
posted by fire&wings at 12:47 AM on June 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by fire&wings at 12:47 AM on June 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
A stroke of good luck.
A chance occurrence; an accident.
A barb or barbed head, as on an arrow or a harpoon.
Either of the two horizontally flattened divisions of the tail of a whale.
posted by Mblue at 1:06 AM on June 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
A chance occurrence; an accident.
A barb or barbed head, as on an arrow or a harpoon.
Either of the two horizontally flattened divisions of the tail of a whale.
posted by Mblue at 1:06 AM on June 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
I saw that the whale was likely killed on a subsistence hunt by Alaska Natives, which I suppose there is some solace in.
With all due respect, I find no solace here. The whale was carved up with chainsaw. If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
This isn't subsistence. It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
posted by frogan at 1:15 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
With all due respect, I find no solace here. The whale was carved up with chainsaw. If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
This isn't subsistence. It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
posted by frogan at 1:15 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Did ya'll see this link while reading the fish whale story? It lists ten other weird science related stories from the past year, nine of which you may not have heard before. It includes interspecies surrogate offspring conceiving, animal dialects, and - I swear to god - the parting of the Red Sea.
posted by Clay201 at 1:45 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by Clay201 at 1:45 AM on June 14, 2007
Yeah, nothing quite as challenging as killing the old and frail. Nice work, assholes.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:26 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:26 AM on June 14, 2007
Yeah, nothing quite as challenging as killing the old and frail. Nice work, assholes.
So, er, how do you slaughter your food? Do you go after the silverbacks with your teeth?
posted by stammer at 3:03 AM on June 14, 2007
So, er, how do you slaughter your food? Do you go after the silverbacks with your teeth?
posted by stammer at 3:03 AM on June 14, 2007
With all due respect, I find no solace here. The whale was carved up with chainsaw. If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
I am stunned by the sheer ignorance of criticizing natives for exercising traditional ways and probably treaty rights because they have happen to have a chainsaw and gasoline.
posted by srboisvert at 3:38 AM on June 14, 2007
I am stunned by the sheer ignorance of criticizing natives for exercising traditional ways and probably treaty rights because they have happen to have a chainsaw and gasoline.
posted by srboisvert at 3:38 AM on June 14, 2007
If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
If them Eskimos want to be all primitive-like, they damn well better kill whales from them little kayak thingies and chop them up with stone knives.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:55 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
If them Eskimos want to be all primitive-like, they damn well better kill whales from them little kayak thingies and chop them up with stone knives.
posted by Meatbomb at 3:55 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Update: After flipping the carcass over the badly decomposed body of one Captain Ahab was found lashed to its side.
posted by Gungho at 4:23 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by Gungho at 4:23 AM on June 14, 2007
srboisvert... "traditional ways" and "treaty rights" don't make anything moral, correct, kind, or right.
posted by HuronBob at 4:42 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by HuronBob at 4:42 AM on June 14, 2007
If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
This statement is false.
This isn't subsistence.
Also false.
It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
This is probably true.
You'd do better if you actually knew jack shit about Alaska, Alaskan Natives, and the history & economics of Native subsistence in the region.
posted by D.C. at 5:28 AM on June 14, 2007
This statement is false.
This isn't subsistence.
Also false.
It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
This is probably true.
You'd do better if you actually knew jack shit about Alaska, Alaskan Natives, and the history & economics of Native subsistence in the region.
posted by D.C. at 5:28 AM on June 14, 2007
If there is one adjective that I would say best describes a chainsaw, it is "traditional".
posted by DU at 5:35 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by DU at 5:35 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
The whale wasn't attempting to warn us about an imminent bilogical attack by Brad Pitt before they shot it was it?
James Cole: I'm here about some monkeys.
Jeffrey Goines: Monkeys?
James Cole: Monkeys. Yes. Twelve of them.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:39 AM on June 14, 2007
James Cole: I'm here about some monkeys.
Jeffrey Goines: Monkeys?
James Cole: Monkeys. Yes. Twelve of them.
posted by Pollomacho at 5:39 AM on June 14, 2007
Notice that the century-old way of killing the whale wasn't all that romantic either. No Ahab with a spear trying to get the heart or whatever... this is basically a grenade
posted by smackfu at 5:47 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by smackfu at 5:47 AM on June 14, 2007
Bob, while I too appreciate the sentiment, er, well..
Your moral compass is not universal. Judge not lest ye be judged. You know, that whole thing.
posted by cavalier at 6:00 AM on June 14, 2007
Your moral compass is not universal. Judge not lest ye be judged. You know, that whole thing.
posted by cavalier at 6:00 AM on June 14, 2007
srboisvert... "traditional ways" and "treaty rights" don't make anything moral, correct, kind, or right.
Good thing we sent native kids to reservation schools so they could learn all about moral, correct, kind and nice from us then.
posted by srboisvert at 6:07 AM on June 14, 2007
Good thing we sent native kids to reservation schools so they could learn all about moral, correct, kind and nice from us then.
posted by srboisvert at 6:07 AM on June 14, 2007
Seems to me that people are less interested in the longevity of the whale than they are in the the fact that some bad person came along and killed it. All very fine and dandy, I feel your pain, etc.
But let's get this straight: Millions of people every day happily devour fish from massively threatened stock. Marine ecosystems are under threat due to the pressures of over fishing and industrial fishing techniques, as are the livelihoods of fishing communities (many of whose members also must bear significant responsibility for these practices, of course).
However, each person, as a consumer, must bear responsibility for the things that they spend their money on. If you are not taking the time to find out whether your fish is sustainably fished, then you are part of the ecological and social problem.
Whales are big and impressive, they get very old, there is sadness in their death. There would also be sadness in the death of certain forms of community for whom whale hunting is a significant aspect of culture.
We need greater sustainability in our use of marine sources, not finger pointing at people who happen to have different priorities to us.
posted by howfar at 6:08 AM on June 14, 2007
But let's get this straight: Millions of people every day happily devour fish from massively threatened stock. Marine ecosystems are under threat due to the pressures of over fishing and industrial fishing techniques, as are the livelihoods of fishing communities (many of whose members also must bear significant responsibility for these practices, of course).
However, each person, as a consumer, must bear responsibility for the things that they spend their money on. If you are not taking the time to find out whether your fish is sustainably fished, then you are part of the ecological and social problem.
Whales are big and impressive, they get very old, there is sadness in their death. There would also be sadness in the death of certain forms of community for whom whale hunting is a significant aspect of culture.
We need greater sustainability in our use of marine sources, not finger pointing at people who happen to have different priorities to us.
posted by howfar at 6:08 AM on June 14, 2007
Think of the changes a sea creature 100 years old would notice in the ocean around it during that span. But then I bet he's been pretty hard to shock ever since that first spike in the face.
posted by hermitosis at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by hermitosis at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2007
With all due respect, I find no solace here. The whale was carved up with chainsaw. If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
This isn't subsistence. It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
Hell yeah, it soulds like fun to me. I would LOVE to kill a whale. I wonder what a mounted whale head would look like on the wall......
posted by bradth27 at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2007
This isn't subsistence. It's taste treat sensation. It's fun.
Hell yeah, it soulds like fun to me. I would LOVE to kill a whale. I wonder what a mounted whale head would look like on the wall......
posted by bradth27 at 6:09 AM on June 14, 2007
It's not the natives who drove the species to near extinction, give them a break.
posted by furtive at 6:12 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by furtive at 6:12 AM on June 14, 2007
Just because the harpoon bit found in the whale was 100 odd years old doesn't necessarily mean it was actually shot 100 years ago.
Somebody say 40 or 50 years ago might have just been using old harpoon gear they found lying around. This wouldn't surprise me; I've known First Nations people to use ancient oil lamps, horse-drawn carts, ploughs and hay bailers...(not to mention cars and trucks).
posted by Flashman at 6:14 AM on June 14, 2007
Somebody say 40 or 50 years ago might have just been using old harpoon gear they found lying around. This wouldn't surprise me; I've known First Nations people to use ancient oil lamps, horse-drawn carts, ploughs and hay bailers...(not to mention cars and trucks).
posted by Flashman at 6:14 AM on June 14, 2007
"I am stunned by the sheer ignorance of criticizing natives for exercising traditional ways and probably treaty rights because they have happen to have a chainsaw and gasoline."
srboisvert is absolutely right. The sagas tell how the North American viking settlements failed because the Norsemen's swords and shields were no match for the skrellings' chain saws and exploding harpoons.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:36 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
srboisvert is absolutely right. The sagas tell how the North American viking settlements failed because the Norsemen's swords and shields were no match for the skrellings' chain saws and exploding harpoons.
posted by Mayor Curley at 6:36 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Isn't it a little fishy he survived so long?
Whales are mammals.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:36 AM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure how the thought process works to go from "Killing Whales is Horrible!" to "They should be slaughtering massive numbers of Pigs and Cows instead!"
You'd think, if the goal was to minimize the amount of pain that is suffered by animals for our food, that killing one whale would be less bad than killing, say, 100 cows?
posted by empath at 6:38 AM on June 14, 2007
You'd think, if the goal was to minimize the amount of pain that is suffered by animals for our food, that killing one whale would be less bad than killing, say, 100 cows?
posted by empath at 6:38 AM on June 14, 2007
srboisvert: Good thing we sent native kids to reservation schools so they could learn all about moral, correct, kind and nice from us then.
nitpick: I think you meant residential schools, correct? Many First Nations still run their own reservation schools.
posted by davey_darling at 6:40 AM on June 14, 2007
nitpick: I think you meant residential schools, correct? Many First Nations still run their own reservation schools.
posted by davey_darling at 6:40 AM on June 14, 2007
You'd think, if the goal was to minimize the amount of pain that is suffered by animals for our food, that killing one whale would be less bad than killing, say, 100 cows?
Yeah, but Whale pain is larger than cow and pig pain!
Seriously, though, the difference is that they're endangered, long-lived, and slow to reproduce. Killing whales has a greater impact on the planet's long-term biodiversity than does killing cows.
posted by lostburner at 6:57 AM on June 14, 2007
"I wonder what a mounted whale head would look like on the wall..."
How goddamned big is your house?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:58 AM on June 14, 2007
How goddamned big is your house?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:58 AM on June 14, 2007
If the damn thing was 100 years old, i'm sure it had managed to reproduce a bunch by now.
posted by empath at 7:01 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by empath at 7:01 AM on June 14, 2007
Hell yeah, it soulds like fun to me. I would LOVE to kill a whale. I wonder what a mounted whale head would look like on the wall......
This question would be asked more precisely as, "I wonder how a wall would look mounted on my new whale head?"
posted by Malor at 7:45 AM on June 14, 2007
This question would be asked more precisely as, "I wonder how a wall would look mounted on my new whale head?"
posted by Malor at 7:45 AM on June 14, 2007
"Good thing we sent native kids to reservation schools so they could learn all about moral, correct, kind and nice from us then."
I made no comment about WHAT was right or wrong, I was questioning your logic (or what I percieved to be your logic): it is traditional, therefore it shouldn't be questioned.
I think we justify a lot because it is traditional, or the way it's always been done, or because our daddy did it that way (crap, look at Iraq, sort of a Bush tradition)...
It would be sort of nice if we looked at our behaviors, our actions, and made decisions based on the here and now instead of "tradition".. Note, I'm not saying that isn't exactly what these people did, I don't question them, I question your statement.
posted by HuronBob at 7:48 AM on June 14, 2007
I made no comment about WHAT was right or wrong, I was questioning your logic (or what I percieved to be your logic): it is traditional, therefore it shouldn't be questioned.
I think we justify a lot because it is traditional, or the way it's always been done, or because our daddy did it that way (crap, look at Iraq, sort of a Bush tradition)...
It would be sort of nice if we looked at our behaviors, our actions, and made decisions based on the here and now instead of "tradition".. Note, I'm not saying that isn't exactly what these people did, I don't question them, I question your statement.
posted by HuronBob at 7:48 AM on June 14, 2007
"Whale meat again, don't know where, don't know when..."
posted by longbaugh at 8:23 AM on June 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by longbaugh at 8:23 AM on June 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
Kinda sad. Like a news story about a 103 year old man who had survived all kinds of horrors in his life only to be hit and killed by a bus. Sure, that's life, but it's still kinda sad.
posted by hojoki at 9:37 AM on June 14, 2007
posted by hojoki at 9:37 AM on June 14, 2007
Kinda sad. Like a news story about a 103 year old man who had survived all kinds of horrors in his life only to be hit and killed by a bus. Sure, that's life, but it's still kinda sad.
And when the cut the man up with a chainsaw, they found a piece of a much older bus.
posted by hutta at 9:59 AM on June 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
And when the cut the man up with a chainsaw, they found a piece of a much older bus.
posted by hutta at 9:59 AM on June 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
I am stunned by the sheer ignorance of criticizing natives for exercising traditional ways and probably treaty rights because they have happen to have a chainsaw and gasoline.
Screw their culture. Screw their "traditional ways." Biodiversity trumps culture. Modern IS better. Why else use a chainsaw?
Traditional ways and treaty rights? Fuck 'em. Look, I'm very sorry their grandfathers had it rough. I'd like to help out. I'd even give them a few bucks, but my grandfather got his ass kicked and his wallet stolen by some British soldier on the streets of Dublin, Ireland. Things are tough all over.
I'm sure the very last dodo, the very last passenger pigeon and the very last Carolina parakeet would've made great hors d'oeuvres. Too bad we can't find out.
Native Americans didn't cause animals to go extinct? I guess that explains why we still have woolly mammoths roaming the Great Plains. Oh wait...
posted by frogan at 12:08 PM on June 14, 2007
Screw their culture. Screw their "traditional ways." Biodiversity trumps culture. Modern IS better. Why else use a chainsaw?
Traditional ways and treaty rights? Fuck 'em. Look, I'm very sorry their grandfathers had it rough. I'd like to help out. I'd even give them a few bucks, but my grandfather got his ass kicked and his wallet stolen by some British soldier on the streets of Dublin, Ireland. Things are tough all over.
I'm sure the very last dodo, the very last passenger pigeon and the very last Carolina parakeet would've made great hors d'oeuvres. Too bad we can't find out.
Native Americans didn't cause animals to go extinct? I guess that explains why we still have woolly mammoths roaming the Great Plains. Oh wait...
posted by frogan at 12:08 PM on June 14, 2007
I guess that explains why we still have woolly mammoths roaming the Great Plains. Oh wait...
I guess you've got proof to back that theory up. Oh wait...
posted by Pollomacho at 12:11 PM on June 14, 2007
I guess you've got proof to back that theory up. Oh wait...
posted by Pollomacho at 12:11 PM on June 14, 2007
And when the cut the man up with a chainsaw, they found a piece of a much older bus.
I read this right as I lifted the receiver to answer the phone at work, and wound up snortling into someone's ear.
posted by hermitosis at 12:12 PM on June 14, 2007
I read this right as I lifted the receiver to answer the phone at work, and wound up snortling into someone's ear.
posted by hermitosis at 12:12 PM on June 14, 2007
"I wonder what a mounted whale head would look like on the wall..."
How goddamned big is your house?
I'll rebuild for a damn whale head. No problem.
posted by bradth27 at 12:45 PM on June 14, 2007
How goddamned big is your house?
I'll rebuild for a damn whale head. No problem.
posted by bradth27 at 12:45 PM on June 14, 2007
I'm with frogan! Think of all the great things that whale has done! What has culture ever given us?
posted by Big_B at 1:07 PM on June 14, 2007
posted by Big_B at 1:07 PM on June 14, 2007
Whaling is part of many cultures. Why should theirs get special consideration?
posted by rocket88 at 1:24 PM on June 14, 2007
posted by rocket88 at 1:24 PM on June 14, 2007
Life on the North Slope is different than anything you have been exposed to. For a lot of the people up there, the only money they see all year is their native corporation check and their PFD. Getting any food up there is expensive. Getting one chainsaw and some fuel to run it is incredibly easy in comparison. In the dead of winter, anything you order will be expensive, frozen/thawed/refrozen, and may not even arrive based on the weather. Hunting whale is incredibly dangerous as you have to go out on the pack ice to do it. You have to cut a path through a surreal landscape of buckled ice hills in case the ice starts to separate from the land and you need to make an emergency retreat. The prey is often as big and far heavier than the vessel full of people trying to get it. Isolation, subzero temps, the surging tide, and the fickle nature of subsistence hunting is all against you. If you get injured while hunting a trophy deer in Minnesota you know that you'll probably have medical help quickly. Just getting your boots damp could mean loss of some toes or even death in Anupiaq territory.
A whale can feed a lot of people for a long time. These hunts bring the entire community together to hunt, butcher, and distribute the meat. They reinforce one of the most basic aspects of the culture - sharing of communal resources and labor. Whale hunting is not equal to picking up a pound of hamburger. It is the way people feed themselves and it is who they are.
posted by Foam Pants at 2:33 PM on June 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
A whale can feed a lot of people for a long time. These hunts bring the entire community together to hunt, butcher, and distribute the meat. They reinforce one of the most basic aspects of the culture - sharing of communal resources and labor. Whale hunting is not equal to picking up a pound of hamburger. It is the way people feed themselves and it is who they are.
posted by Foam Pants at 2:33 PM on June 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
These hunts bring the entire community together
So you're cool with badger baiting, then? As long as it's English people doing it?
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:40 PM on June 14, 2007
So you're cool with badger baiting, then? As long as it's English people doing it?
posted by Mayor Curley at 2:40 PM on June 14, 2007
Screw their culture. Screw their "traditional ways." Biodiversity trumps culture. Modern IS better.
Bowhead whales are endangered because of commercial whaling by "modern" cultures. Alaskan native hunting has no significant impact on bowhead populations.
posted by stammer at 3:02 PM on June 14, 2007
Bowhead whales are endangered because of commercial whaling by "modern" cultures. Alaskan native hunting has no significant impact on bowhead populations.
posted by stammer at 3:02 PM on June 14, 2007
Badger baiting and Alaska native whale hunting have little to do with each other. The English do not rely on badgers and other badger-like animals for food. A small segment of the population badger bait and the culture has little to do with badger baiting. Anupiaq rely on these animals for food, their culture is built around this hunt, and almost the entire population participates in the hunt in some way. In their own words:
"Who We Are -
The Inupiaq and the St. Lawrence Island Yupik People, or “Real People,” are still hunting and gathering societies. They continue to subsist on the land and sea of north and northwest Alaska. Their lives continue to evolve around the whale, walrus, seal, polar bear, caribou and fish."
posted by Foam Pants at 4:06 PM on June 14, 2007
"Who We Are -
The Inupiaq and the St. Lawrence Island Yupik People, or “Real People,” are still hunting and gathering societies. They continue to subsist on the land and sea of north and northwest Alaska. Their lives continue to evolve around the whale, walrus, seal, polar bear, caribou and fish."
posted by Foam Pants at 4:06 PM on June 14, 2007
A noteworthy aside is this piece on the captain of the boat that killed the whale, Arnold Brewer, Sr.
posted by humannaire at 5:39 PM on June 14, 2007
posted by humannaire at 5:39 PM on June 14, 2007
By the way? According to the article I linked to above, the captain who killed the 100+ year-old whale is himself 86 years old.
Also, he has seventeen kids.
You can read about it (and see his and family's picture) here. [PDF]
posted by humannaire at 5:50 PM on June 14, 2007
Also, he has seventeen kids.
You can read about it (and see his and family's picture) here. [PDF]
posted by humannaire at 5:50 PM on June 14, 2007
I guess you've got proof to back that theory up. Oh wait...
Right here, buddy ...
Now, I'm sure you'll go Googling for a competing view, but the theory isn't as asshattery as hunting a fucking whale.
Alaskan native hunting has no significant impact on bowhead populations.
Except when the Japanese use it specifically as a justification for their continued commercial whale hunting.
Guys, guys ... when people make fun of dipshit political correctness, they are making fun of you. For this.
posted by frogan at 6:17 PM on June 14, 2007
Right here, buddy ...
Now, I'm sure you'll go Googling for a competing view, but the theory isn't as asshattery as hunting a fucking whale.
Alaskan native hunting has no significant impact on bowhead populations.
Except when the Japanese use it specifically as a justification for their continued commercial whale hunting.
Guys, guys ... when people make fun of dipshit political correctness, they are making fun of you. For this.
posted by frogan at 6:17 PM on June 14, 2007
I don't think anyone in this thread is advocating or would endorse a return to commercial whaling. What is being defended is a subsistence hunt by people living in an environment very different from the one most of us inhabit.
Having visited Barrow for only a short time, I am certainly not an expert on the North Slope, but I have a new appreciation for the logistics of life 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. Everything you use is either flown in or, for the few months of summer, brought by barge. Grocery selection is influenced not only by what can be transported, but what is practical. Fresh milk, eggs, and bread, for example, while available, are much more expensive because you’re paying for the extra volume, water weight and fragility.
The Inupiat hunt bowheads because it is an integral part of their culture, but also because they need to eat. A temperate-climate diet is prohibitively impractical on the North Slope, and whale fills a nutritional niche in their traditional diet.
Also, what Foam Pants said.
If people make fun of me for having a nuanced understanding gained through experience, oh well.
posted by Katherine Kimber at 9:17 PM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Having visited Barrow for only a short time, I am certainly not an expert on the North Slope, but I have a new appreciation for the logistics of life 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. Everything you use is either flown in or, for the few months of summer, brought by barge. Grocery selection is influenced not only by what can be transported, but what is practical. Fresh milk, eggs, and bread, for example, while available, are much more expensive because you’re paying for the extra volume, water weight and fragility.
The Inupiat hunt bowheads because it is an integral part of their culture, but also because they need to eat. A temperate-climate diet is prohibitively impractical on the North Slope, and whale fills a nutritional niche in their traditional diet.
Also, what Foam Pants said.
If people make fun of me for having a nuanced understanding gained through experience, oh well.
posted by Katherine Kimber at 9:17 PM on June 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
If you can afford a chainsaw and the gasoline to run it, you can afford to eat farmed animals, not endangered whales.
I'm not going to say you are an idiot, like others have here, but you certainly are greatly uninformed about life in the north. First, everything costs a shitload of money. An example, though I'm not suggesting that this should be part of the staple diet of northerners, is that a 2-litre of Coke in Iqaluit costs around $12.
A decent chainsaw can be had for a couple hundred dollars. Vegetable oil to lubricate it for use on an animal is cheap. Gasoline isn't fantastically expensive (and prices for it are federally controlled in the Far North). With it, and the killing of a whale, a hundred people can each fill their bellies many times over. It's cheap by far than the meat in your own grocery store, never mind the huge prices up there.
posted by Kickstart70 at 9:52 PM on June 14, 2007
I'm not going to say you are an idiot, like others have here, but you certainly are greatly uninformed about life in the north. First, everything costs a shitload of money. An example, though I'm not suggesting that this should be part of the staple diet of northerners, is that a 2-litre of Coke in Iqaluit costs around $12.
A decent chainsaw can be had for a couple hundred dollars. Vegetable oil to lubricate it for use on an animal is cheap. Gasoline isn't fantastically expensive (and prices for it are federally controlled in the Far North). With it, and the killing of a whale, a hundred people can each fill their bellies many times over. It's cheap by far than the meat in your own grocery store, never mind the huge prices up there.
posted by Kickstart70 at 9:52 PM on June 14, 2007
An example, though I'm not suggesting that this should be part of the staple diet of northerners, is that a 2-litre of Coke in Iqaluit costs around $12.
The fact that you can buy a 2-liter bottle of Coke in Iqaluit means that a sufficient number of people in Iqaluit have the means and the desire to spend $12 on something as frivolous as a 2-liter bottle of Coke. If they couldn't afford it, it wouldn't be on sale there, would it? The "it's whale meat or starvation for the kids" argument just doesn't hold water.
Jesus H. Christ ... what part of "stop killing the endangered animals before they're all gone" do you people not understand? We're not talking about white-tailed deer, guys. This is not a manageable population over the long term.
If there were a billion whales left and lots of hungry kids, fine, we can make some whale jerky.
If there were a million whales left ... mmm, steaks.
OK, now how about 1,000? Still interested in firing up the barbeque? How about five hundred whales? Still got the tongs and the "kiss the cook" apron ready? One hundred whales? Ready to put down the A-1 Whale Sauce yet?
At some point, political correctness and respect for culture gets obscene, right? At some point you step in and go, "Sorry, Nanook, you're done. Leave the whales alone. Here, have a pork sandwich instead."
Well, we're at that point.
But, hey. Fuck reason! Who's up for some fried panda? I hear there's a tribe in China that thinks eating panda brings them closer to their ancestors...
posted by frogan at 10:24 PM on June 14, 2007
The fact that you can buy a 2-liter bottle of Coke in Iqaluit means that a sufficient number of people in Iqaluit have the means and the desire to spend $12 on something as frivolous as a 2-liter bottle of Coke. If they couldn't afford it, it wouldn't be on sale there, would it? The "it's whale meat or starvation for the kids" argument just doesn't hold water.
Jesus H. Christ ... what part of "stop killing the endangered animals before they're all gone" do you people not understand? We're not talking about white-tailed deer, guys. This is not a manageable population over the long term.
If there were a billion whales left and lots of hungry kids, fine, we can make some whale jerky.
If there were a million whales left ... mmm, steaks.
OK, now how about 1,000? Still interested in firing up the barbeque? How about five hundred whales? Still got the tongs and the "kiss the cook" apron ready? One hundred whales? Ready to put down the A-1 Whale Sauce yet?
At some point, political correctness and respect for culture gets obscene, right? At some point you step in and go, "Sorry, Nanook, you're done. Leave the whales alone. Here, have a pork sandwich instead."
Well, we're at that point.
But, hey. Fuck reason! Who's up for some fried panda? I hear there's a tribe in China that thinks eating panda brings them closer to their ancestors...
posted by frogan at 10:24 PM on June 14, 2007
What part of Bowhead Whales in the Alaskan coastal waters are not endangered do you not understand frogan? Their population is at 50% of their of pre whaling population and growing.
But, hey. Fuck reason!
You are. Look it is clear you want to stop all hunting of whales for some reason other than declining stocks. You admit it in you argument where a million whales seems insufficient to you (even though the pre-commercial whaling stock for the entire arctic sea was nowhere near that number). You seem to repeatedly miss the fact that nobody thinks the native whaling has an impact on the populations health. You also seem to have no respect for the law, treaty obligations, native culture or basic ecology (One billion whales! WTF?).
You're arguments are so flawed and inconsistent that I can't help but think you are arguing using whatever you can pull out of your hat for some other reason. Perhaps you think whales deserve some special protection because of their whaleness or you are making some sort of vegan argument?
Even greenpeace doesn't oppose subsistence whaling by natives in Alaska.
posted by srboisvert at 1:19 AM on June 15, 2007
But, hey. Fuck reason!
You are. Look it is clear you want to stop all hunting of whales for some reason other than declining stocks. You admit it in you argument where a million whales seems insufficient to you (even though the pre-commercial whaling stock for the entire arctic sea was nowhere near that number). You seem to repeatedly miss the fact that nobody thinks the native whaling has an impact on the populations health. You also seem to have no respect for the law, treaty obligations, native culture or basic ecology (One billion whales! WTF?).
You're arguments are so flawed and inconsistent that I can't help but think you are arguing using whatever you can pull out of your hat for some other reason. Perhaps you think whales deserve some special protection because of their whaleness or you are making some sort of vegan argument?
Even greenpeace doesn't oppose subsistence whaling by natives in Alaska.
posted by srboisvert at 1:19 AM on June 15, 2007
This is not a manageable population over the long term.
Yes, it is.
posted by Orb at 4:22 AM on June 15, 2007
Yes, it is.
posted by Orb at 4:22 AM on June 15, 2007
Whales live 200 years? That means Moby Dick is still out there. Maybe Starbucks will bankroll a hunt.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2007
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:42 AM on June 15, 2007
srboisvert, you'd sound so much better if you weren't flat fucking wrong.
The Bowhead is listed in Appendix I by CITES (that is, "threatened with extinction"). It is listed as endangered under the auspices of the United States' Endangered Species Act.
Now, in the same article, it mentions that "subsistence hunts are not expected to affect the population's recovery." However, as I pointed out before, the Japanese commercial whaling industry specifically uses the presence of subsistence hunts as a justification for continued commercial hunting, which WILL affect the population of 8,000 (!) whales.
That's right. Eight. Thousand. I bet you couldn't even guess at the correct number before this thread started.
Moreover, other tribes, notably the Makah, also continue to hunt whales, for the same cockamamie "cultural" reasons. By the way, the Makah live in the Lower 48 and run a thriving sportfishing and tourist business near Seattle, Victoria and Vancouver. They don't need the meat.
This isn't about being vegan (I'm not, if you were wondering). It's about being stupid. It's about you having such an open mind, your brain has fallen out. Open your eyes and look around. It a far more complicated world than you think it is.
In the meantime, getcher fried panda while you still can, nimrod.
posted by frogan at 5:31 PM on June 15, 2007
The Bowhead is listed in Appendix I by CITES (that is, "threatened with extinction"). It is listed as endangered under the auspices of the United States' Endangered Species Act.
Now, in the same article, it mentions that "subsistence hunts are not expected to affect the population's recovery." However, as I pointed out before, the Japanese commercial whaling industry specifically uses the presence of subsistence hunts as a justification for continued commercial hunting, which WILL affect the population of 8,000 (!) whales.
That's right. Eight. Thousand. I bet you couldn't even guess at the correct number before this thread started.
Moreover, other tribes, notably the Makah, also continue to hunt whales, for the same cockamamie "cultural" reasons. By the way, the Makah live in the Lower 48 and run a thriving sportfishing and tourist business near Seattle, Victoria and Vancouver. They don't need the meat.
This isn't about being vegan (I'm not, if you were wondering). It's about being stupid. It's about you having such an open mind, your brain has fallen out. Open your eyes and look around. It a far more complicated world than you think it is.
In the meantime, getcher fried panda while you still can, nimrod.
posted by frogan at 5:31 PM on June 15, 2007
My ... God ... nobody is starving here! You guys are actually arguing in favor of killing admittedly endangered animals for fun.
posted by frogan at 5:34 PM on June 15, 2007
posted by frogan at 5:34 PM on June 15, 2007
srboisvert, you'd sound so much better if you weren't flat fucking wrong.
I don't really care about how I sound frogan. I care about whether or not I am right. That's why I check facts.
The Atlantic Bowhead population is endangered. The Alaskan population is not. You are conflating the distinct populations.
That's right. Eight. Thousand. I bet you couldn't even guess at the correct number before this thread started.
That is the number in the ATLANTIC! I didn't know the numbers before this thread. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of that because I did research them while the thread was going on. You should give it a try. (If you are too lazy I'll tell you what numbers I found for the Bering stock it is between 9000 to 11000 and growing. And I repeat once again, about 50% of the estimated pre-commercial whaling stock. In other words not the dire state you repeatedly portray it as) .
My ... God ... nobody is starving here! You guys are actually arguing in favor of killing admittedly endangered animals for fun.
WFT Frogan? You are so strangely off base about everything. Are you okay?
posted by srboisvert at 1:41 AM on June 17, 2007
I don't really care about how I sound frogan. I care about whether or not I am right. That's why I check facts.
The Atlantic Bowhead population is endangered. The Alaskan population is not. You are conflating the distinct populations.
That's right. Eight. Thousand. I bet you couldn't even guess at the correct number before this thread started.
That is the number in the ATLANTIC! I didn't know the numbers before this thread. I am not embarrassed or ashamed of that because I did research them while the thread was going on. You should give it a try. (If you are too lazy I'll tell you what numbers I found for the Bering stock it is between 9000 to 11000 and growing. And I repeat once again, about 50% of the estimated pre-commercial whaling stock. In other words not the dire state you repeatedly portray it as) .
My ... God ... nobody is starving here! You guys are actually arguing in favor of killing admittedly endangered animals for fun.
WFT Frogan? You are so strangely off base about everything. Are you okay?
posted by srboisvert at 1:41 AM on June 17, 2007
That is the number in the ATLANTIC!
I was wrong about this. The 8000 is the estimate for the Bowhead population in the rest of the world excluding the Alaskan-Bering population. It's not the just the Atlantic.
posted by srboisvert at 2:53 AM on June 17, 2007
I was wrong about this. The 8000 is the estimate for the Bowhead population in the rest of the world excluding the Alaskan-Bering population. It's not the just the Atlantic.
posted by srboisvert at 2:53 AM on June 17, 2007
srboisvert, can I come to your house and have some tiger penis soup? How about some rhino horn powder? I hear it's good for the blood.
I mean, you don't seem to care, so...
You are rah-rah'ing the killing of endangered species for "culture." Your position is undefensible.
posted by frogan at 1:11 PM on June 17, 2007
I mean, you don't seem to care, so...
You are rah-rah'ing the killing of endangered species for "culture." Your position is undefensible.
posted by frogan at 1:11 PM on June 17, 2007
srboisvert, can I come to your house and have some tiger penis soup? How about some rhino horn powder? I hear it's good for the blood.
You could try and come to my house. What would happen is I would tell you my address and you would then go somewhere else. I'd call and ask where you are and you would insist that you were at my house. It would go back and forth like that about 5 times. Then you would list of a couple of other incorrect addresses and I would laugh and then give up.
posted by srboisvert at 12:19 AM on June 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
You could try and come to my house. What would happen is I would tell you my address and you would then go somewhere else. I'd call and ask where you are and you would insist that you were at my house. It would go back and forth like that about 5 times. Then you would list of a couple of other incorrect addresses and I would laugh and then give up.
posted by srboisvert at 12:19 AM on June 18, 2007 [1 favorite]
Party at srboisvert's. I hear he's got Red Rail on the menu (that was the dodo's tastier cousin), and maybe some Sumatran Tiger.
Tiger parts are historically valued in the region. The skin of a Sumatran tiger is believed to possess magical powers - protecting owners from black magic.
Remember, you don't have any problem with this srboisvert. The Great Spirit is telling them it's finger-lickin' good AND it wards away evil spirits!
posted by frogan at 8:04 PM on June 18, 2007
Tiger parts are historically valued in the region. The skin of a Sumatran tiger is believed to possess magical powers - protecting owners from black magic.
Remember, you don't have any problem with this srboisvert. The Great Spirit is telling them it's finger-lickin' good AND it wards away evil spirits!
posted by frogan at 8:04 PM on June 18, 2007
Frogan, you are losing it. Take a deep breath and reread the thread. If you still think I am advocating what you claim I am I suggest you seek help with your reading comprehension. I'm done here.
posted by srboisvert at 2:25 AM on June 19, 2007
posted by srboisvert at 2:25 AM on June 19, 2007
I fail to see how you're not advocating killing endangered animals for fun (i.e. "culture"). I'd love for you to explain it to me, seriously.
This started when someone saw a dead whale and said, "Well, at least it was killed to feed a family." But it wasn't.
You might argue "subsistence," but nobody is starving. You might argue, "they're not endangered," but they are. You might argue, "it doesn't cause extinction," but oh hell yes it does. So you're left with nothing more than a dead whale and political correctness.
So is that it? We drive animals to extinction so we can feel better about ourselves? Fuck that.
This is walking hypocrisy. If I were to merely harass this whale, I'd be guilty of a felony, because right-minded folks made it illegal to do so. But if I shoot the whale and couch it as something my forefathers did, it's OK?
That's insanity. And you're insane to defend it. And every time someone tries to defend it, little by little, we lower our standards of what it means to be civilized.
I really hope it feels good. I really do.
Postscript: The Stellar's Sea Cow was driven to extinction through hunting, a mere 30 years after it was discovered. Tasty.
posted by frogan at 8:43 PM on June 19, 2007
This started when someone saw a dead whale and said, "Well, at least it was killed to feed a family." But it wasn't.
You might argue "subsistence," but nobody is starving. You might argue, "they're not endangered," but they are. You might argue, "it doesn't cause extinction," but oh hell yes it does. So you're left with nothing more than a dead whale and political correctness.
So is that it? We drive animals to extinction so we can feel better about ourselves? Fuck that.
This is walking hypocrisy. If I were to merely harass this whale, I'd be guilty of a felony, because right-minded folks made it illegal to do so. But if I shoot the whale and couch it as something my forefathers did, it's OK?
That's insanity. And you're insane to defend it. And every time someone tries to defend it, little by little, we lower our standards of what it means to be civilized.
I really hope it feels good. I really do.
Postscript: The Stellar's Sea Cow was driven to extinction through hunting, a mere 30 years after it was discovered. Tasty.
posted by frogan at 8:43 PM on June 19, 2007
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posted by srboisvert at 11:51 PM on June 13, 2007 [57 favorites]