Comments on: Crashing Australian Army Blackhawk

Crashing Australian Army Blackhawk

wilful — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:57:10 -0800

On 29 November last year an Australian Army Blackhawk helicopter crashed while attempting a landing in strong winds on the HMAS Kanimbla. Two soldiers died in the accident, with the airframe and the corpse of one Trooper later being recovered from the seabed 3 km down. The Board of Inquiry opened today, releasing graphic video footage.

By: davebarnes

davebarnes — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:12:11 -0800

"severe wind conditions" ! An understatement, I would say. That chopper bounced off the deck so fast it look like a video game.

By: bunglin jones

bunglin jones — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:14:08 -0800

Chopper crash survivor tells of escape

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:16:02 -0800

That's really not that graphic.

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:32:31 -0800

That's really not that graphic. Quite graphic, haven't seen too many helicopters bounce of flight decks in my life. But I don't live on a film set.

By: BeerFilter

BeerFilter — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:34:13 -0800

Holy fuck. That looks crazy as hell. I'm having trouble parsing it all, but what the hell was the pilot doing coming in that fast? In the segment before the impact shot, if that's the same copter on approach, he looks like he's fucking hauling ass. He looks tilted back though, like he's trying to slow down, but the wind has him. He looks like he's just approaching way too fast, and after pitching back, he failed to increase either collective or thrust or something. Maybe he got into a vortex ring state, due to the wind and his speedy approach.

By: taosbat

taosbat — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:40:10 -0800

¡Whup!

By: pivotal

pivotal — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:52:49 -0800

Second the Holy/What the fuck. Usually in high wind conditions the biggest issue is the pitching of the deck, which means the chopper pilot has to judge when to set down, and set down HARD when s/he does finally decide to (so the helicopter doesn't re-launch when the deck pitches down). However, in this case the chopper also had massive horizontal speed, which I really can't understand unless it was some sort of 'tactical' approach, or as BeerFilter says some sort of failure mode. I can't see vortex ring being an issue with the forward speed and distance off the water, but helicopters have so many ways to go wrong, who can tell...

By: smackfu

smackfu — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:54:05 -0800

Were they trying to show the footage in the shortest video possible?

By: wilful

wilful — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:54:22 -0800

I hate to sound like a dispassionate hardarse, and I'm sure my opinion would be different if it was my son/brother/father lying there at the bottom of the ocean, but I really have to question the use of public money to undertake the 'salvage' operation, for no useful purpose. Just feelgood meeja manipulation, I think.

By: pivotal

pivotal — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:56:27 -0800

From bunglin jones' link: "The team view was that there was a number of contributing factors that led to the crash," he said. "That being the ... geometry of approach in those environmental conditions, and to a certain degree the configuration of the aircraft by weight." I love military euphemisms. "Geometry of approach" == pilot was coming in way to fast and hard onto a pitching deck.

By: hortense

hortense — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:03:15 -0800

I found this "Low flight" .

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:31:55 -0800

That's really not that graphic. ~~Hate~~ Love to be a pedant, because graphic is *exactly* what it is. Function: adjective Etymology: Latin graphicus, from Greek graphikos, from graphein 1 a : of or relating to the pictorial arts; also : PICTORIAL b : of, relating to, or involving such reproductive methods as those of engraving, etching, lithography, photography, serigraphy, and woodcut c : of or relating to the art of printing d : relating or according to graphics 2 : formed by writing, drawing, or engraving 3 usually graphic a : marked by clear lifelike or vividly realistic description b : vividly or plainly shown or described (a graphic sex scene) 4 usually graphical : of, relating to, or represented by a graph 5 : of or relating to the written or printed word or the symbols or devices used in writing or printing to represent sound or convey meaning The adjective is slowly being leached of its proper meaning by dolts like you, who use or interpret examples like "a graphic sex scene" to mean something other than a realistic, written or pictorial depiction of sex. Instead, graphic is though to mean something like "extreme" or "over the top". /derail Funny this. It probably happens in America & its many military bases & expeditions overseas every other hour. Here, it's big news, like yesterday's *breaking news* - interrupting all the morning telly - "Shots have been fired in Melbourne! One person is critically injured! Two more have been taken to hospital!"

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:38:45 -0800

I reckon it opened yesterday. wilful, i'm sure, was translating for our american friends. becoz of the international dateline and all, our "yesterday" is their "today". hope this clears everything up.

By: amyms

amyms — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:26:25 -0800

Somehow, "ROFLCOPTER" doesn't seem appropriate here. I reckon it opened yesterday. wilful, i'm sure, was translating for our american friends Reminds me of the quote (paraphrasing): "If you're worried that the world will end today, just remember it's always tomorrow in Australia."

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:32:13 -0800

Yes, I looked up the meaning of "graphic" and realized that it was in fact graphic, by definition. I was just hoping no one would call me on it, especially someone that says "telly" and "taken to hospital".

By: cholly

cholly — Mon, 18 Jun 2007 23:34:28 -0800

I was reading over a few news articles about it today, and this footage was released to the media before the survivors and the deceased's families were permitted to view it (SMH). The first that one of the survivors heard of the crash was seeing the footage on the news yesterday night. I think somebody has stuffed up there - this footage should have been released to those involved well before it was made public.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:00:43 -0800

What are you talking about, p&c? Both are perfectly cromulent usages of Strine. Despite the ever-worsening encroachment of foreign culture on our fair shores, I still resist the use of Americanisms like "hospitalizated".

By: bunglin jones

bunglin jones — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 00:31:18 -0800

cholly, my understanding is that once it was shown at the inquest into the crash, it was released to the media. It sounds to me as though no one was allowed to view it until the inquest began.

By: pracowity

pracowity — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:00:55 -0800

I really have to question the use of public money to undertake the 'salvage' operation You might as well ask why the ship was there and the helicopter was landing on it. It's all very expensive ongoing training with people and equipment you are paying for whether they are being used or not. And recovering the helicopter is a very good way to figure out why the thing crashed, just in case it's something you can fix for the rest of your helicopters and their crews. That, and you'd have a hell of a time keeping morale up (and people in the service) if you didn't do things like go back for 'Ports' when there were teams of people (who are being paid whether they are sitting on deck or diving for the bottom) telling you they are ready to go.

By: wilful

wilful — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:14:23 -0800

Figure out why it crashed? Dude, did you look at the video? I didn't see (or hear any reports) of equipment failure.

By: markr

markr — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:15:35 -0800

In all the reports from when this happened it was said that the sea was calm and the conditions where good. I've only heard of wind being an issue in the last few days.

By: markr

markr — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:26:52 -0800

I didn't see (or hear any reports) of equipment failure. With the pilot dead there could have been control problems that we don't yet know about. Even if they recover the helicopter (Have they done this? Or just the body trapped in it?) these things can be difficult to determine. For example the US lost five Blackhawks through the '80s, including all on board, due to an EMC issue that gave uncommanded stabilizer movement when flying past strong radio transmitters. Basically the stabs would move and the helicopter would nose into the ground (see page 38 of this pdf or just Google for it). EMC problems are notoriously hard to diagnose, and ships are full of strong transmitters. I understand the Blackhawk has had additional shielding added since then, but the Seahawk, which the Australian Navy use is basically a Blackhawk with better EMC hardening.

By: bunglin jones

bunglin jones — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 02:11:29 -0800

I didn't see (or hear any reports) of equipment failure. There's one here now.

By: bunglin jones

bunglin jones — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 02:13:15 -0800

...Though that thing I linked to seems to be talking about equipment that ought to have worked in the event of a crash, not equipment that ought to have prevented one

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 03:27:03 -0800

UbuRoivas, perhaps dinkum would be better than cromulent in this situation. I for one like diminutive "telly". It has a nice warm ring to it.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:16:47 -0800

mattoxic: fair suck of the sack, mate! i'm trying to make the septic tanks feel welcome here.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:34:51 -0800

"Holy crap, did you see that freaking chopper explode?"

By: Liosliath

Liosliath — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 06:35:47 -0800

Now you're mixing Cockney in?

By: monju_bosatsu

monju_bosatsu — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 07:37:56 -0800

For those that can't get the video on the newsite to play, here's a bit from skynews with the footage, along with some underwater footage of chopper on the ocean floor.

By: False Jesii Inc.

False Jesii Inc. — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:06:07 -0800

UbuRoivas: "It probably happens in America & its many military bases & expeditions overseas every other hour." Somewhat true. As an army brat, I've lived near military bases most of my life. We surely only heard of the local helicopter crashes even if all the men on board died. Once or twice a year seemed to be the normal rate. Military training is dangerous. Military training with helicopters always seemed a bit more so.

By: misha

misha — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:57:35 -0800

The account by the survivor was chilling. The man, an experienced diver, did everything right and it was still an incredibly dicey situation. That nine out of eleven men involved survived that, after seeing the crash, is amazing.

By: Ogre Lawless

Ogre Lawless — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:34:22 -0800

I don't know if its the fixed postion of the camera or what, but the crash footage has a surreal, almost CG feel about it.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:20:55 -0800

Liosliath: Originally invented by the cockney English, [rhyming slang] was brought to Australia by Convicts.

By: Liosliath

Liosliath — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 17:41:54 -0800

Ooo, well then. I learn something new here every day, thanks. Last time I got called that was in a very shady area of London in '91, and wasn't sure what the hell he was talking about until a few years later.

By: Whistlepig

Whistlepig — Tue, 19 Jun 2007 23:11:02 -0800

What stupid fuck precedes the video of a fatal crash with video of baboons eating paper?