Zeldman responds
March 7, 2001 6:47 AM Subscribe
Zeldman responds to the the many concerns people have expressed over the WaSP's recent Browser Upgrade Campaign. Read it if you love the web.
This should properly display my technical prowess:
Is Blogger standards compliant? I don't know CRAP about programming, and use Blogger for my site. Am I the problem?
posted by norm at 8:20 AM on March 7, 2001
Is Blogger standards compliant? I don't know CRAP about programming, and use Blogger for my site. Am I the problem?
posted by norm at 8:20 AM on March 7, 2001
Ah, standards compliance.
I am one of those that still hasn't upgraded my site to be anywhere near standards compliant, and it breaks in a bevy of ways in older and newer browsers because of workarounds, improper CSS, and javascript.
But I am planning on changing that over the coming months once I decide on a tactic to move to a full database driven backend, and decide on php or asp or whatever.
But the one thing that was pretty cool is that I went to http://www.eyemodule.com and noticed the screen flash before it loaded.
It said "You are using a non-standards compliant browser. Upgrade." with a link to the web standards org upgrade site.
The site loaded fine, and kept a little link at the bototm of the page with the same message. A company can comply with standards and not exclude anyone - and try and push them along at the same time.
If anything, I feel it makes the company look smarter, more up to date in their knowledge of today's technology, and for a company on the web, that's an important perception.
posted by rich at 8:27 AM on March 7, 2001
I am one of those that still hasn't upgraded my site to be anywhere near standards compliant, and it breaks in a bevy of ways in older and newer browsers because of workarounds, improper CSS, and javascript.
But I am planning on changing that over the coming months once I decide on a tactic to move to a full database driven backend, and decide on php or asp or whatever.
But the one thing that was pretty cool is that I went to http://www.eyemodule.com and noticed the screen flash before it loaded.
It said "You are using a non-standards compliant browser. Upgrade." with a link to the web standards org upgrade site.
The site loaded fine, and kept a little link at the bototm of the page with the same message. A company can comply with standards and not exclude anyone - and try and push them along at the same time.
If anything, I feel it makes the company look smarter, more up to date in their knowledge of today's technology, and for a company on the web, that's an important perception.
posted by rich at 8:27 AM on March 7, 2001
norm: Blogger deals in good old fashioned text. You tell it what to put on your site, and therefore you decide whether or not it's standards compliant.
(there's plenty of examples of standards compliant blogger sites, including mine *cough*. :-)
eyemodule.com - a link for the site rich recommends.
posted by cCranium at 9:50 AM on March 7, 2001
(there's plenty of examples of standards compliant blogger sites, including mine *cough*. :-)
eyemodule.com - a link for the site rich recommends.
posted by cCranium at 9:50 AM on March 7, 2001
I like being a nice comfy distance behind the curve. Getting any kind of suggestion that I have to go through the thrills and fun of upgrading my browser is my signal to just ditch the site. I do this because without exception, every time I have complied with the request to upgrade, I have not noticed any meaningful new features on the site that I upgraded to see. And then I have the added pain in the neck of whipping the new browser into shape, because many of my preferences are not carried over from the previous install.
Creative types creating sites for artistic purposes have my blessing to get as esoteric as they wanna be, but sites that hope to get my money (like eyemodule,linked above) don't stand much of a chance if they make me feel like a second class citizen right off the bat. It's like being turned away from a grocery store because my car is 5 years old. Although I hate to see all the suffering caused by the "dot-com downturn", at least part of it was caused by the sufferers themselves, with sites like DEN being classic examples of being too hip for the room. K.I.S.S.!!!
As for telling prospective clients the truth, I learned fairly early on that if they need to be lied to, then they will be more trouble than they are worth to work for. Also, payment will likely be a problem.
posted by BGM at 10:45 AM on March 7, 2001
Creative types creating sites for artistic purposes have my blessing to get as esoteric as they wanna be, but sites that hope to get my money (like eyemodule,linked above) don't stand much of a chance if they make me feel like a second class citizen right off the bat. It's like being turned away from a grocery store because my car is 5 years old. Although I hate to see all the suffering caused by the "dot-com downturn", at least part of it was caused by the sufferers themselves, with sites like DEN being classic examples of being too hip for the room. K.I.S.S.!!!
As for telling prospective clients the truth, I learned fairly early on that if they need to be lied to, then they will be more trouble than they are worth to work for. Also, payment will likely be a problem.
posted by BGM at 10:45 AM on March 7, 2001
BGM: Hell, yes.
...I wouldn't buy anything from a site that didn't provide my browser the best (or near to the best) it could do. Ahh.. but I've said enough elsewhere (hint hint).
posted by holloway at 2:12 PM on March 7, 2001
...I wouldn't buy anything from a site that didn't provide my browser the best (or near to the best) it could do. Ahh.. but I've said enough elsewhere (hint hint).
posted by holloway at 2:12 PM on March 7, 2001
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Actually, a quote I enjoyed: "Before we even thought about developing a site proposal, I told the client no developer could meet all three goals, because they were incompatible. I got the account. Then we developed a proposal offering a recommended method and an alternative. That's how I sell stuff: tell the truth, explain it, and offer alternatives. "
In my experience, if you're capable of explaining the whys and hows behind the way something won't work, you're likely to get the go-ahead to do it your way. Have any of you found this to be untrue?
Have you ever not gotten a job because you explained things the way they truly were?
posted by liquidgnome at 7:28 AM on March 7, 2001