Neocon echo chamber cruiselines
July 18, 2007 9:35 AM   Subscribe

From the Muslim's are coming dep't: Snakes on a Plane Neocons on a Cruise. British Alternet reporter pays $6000 to go on a cruise for National Review readers with the likes of William Buckley and Kenneth Star on board. He keeps his lib-tard tendencies undercover and what he hears will shock you surprise no one.
posted by daHIFI (66 comments total)

This post was deleted for the following reason: How is this not just a LOLNEOCONZ pileon. Also: alternet, really? -- jessamyn



 
for the record I tried to find a suitable counter link for this but couldn't turn up one. I realize this is egregiously biased and is probably no worse that what you hear in most forums but I thought it was a well written article and shed a little light on those that love Jesus, love Bush, and vote often.
posted by daHIFI at 9:37 AM on July 18, 2007


Oddly enough, everyone on the cruise was a liberal disguised as a neo-con in order to do an article about it.
posted by drezdn at 9:41 AM on July 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


He's a writer for the Independent newspaper, not Alternet. As fandango_matt might be saying, the obvious counter-link would be to P J O'Rourke's original piece, Ship of Fools, about a Nation magazine cruise up the Volga. But to be fair I can't find a link to that either.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:45 AM on July 18, 2007


"One of the Park Avenue ladies declares that she gets on her knees every day to 'thank God for Fox News.'"

Prayers for MetaFilter, anyone? ; )
posted by ericb at 9:47 AM on July 18, 2007


It bothers me that the scathing contempt running through this article is reminiscent of the attitudes of the people described within it.
posted by CynicalKnight at 9:50 AM on July 18, 2007


>>"One of the Park Avenue ladies declares that she gets on her knees every day to 'thank God for Fox News.'"

I bet she drives a Hummer.
posted by SaintCynr at 9:50 AM on July 18, 2007


PJ O'Rourke's "Ship of Fools", and can be found in his book "Republican Party Reptile".
posted by ericb at 9:51 AM on July 18, 2007


Using the search inside feature at the Amazon link for "Ship of Fools," you can access the article (after signing in).
posted by ericb at 9:54 AM on July 18, 2007


When I was picking up one of my kids from preschool once I heard a non-Park Avenue lady say "thank God for Fox News". This was like 3 years ago. I flash on that every once in a while. A lot of people just aren't paying any attention and so can be semi-forgiven for being wrong. But to be actively, deliberately, purposefully so very, very wrong is just...I don't even know.
posted by DU at 9:59 AM on July 18, 2007


I love how the neocon solution to complex issues is always execution and fear-mongering. Ironically, they sound just like the Muslim extremists they fear/hate.
posted by chuckdarwin at 10:00 AM on July 18, 2007 [4 favorites]


A few floors away, Podhoretz tells me he is losing his voice, "which will make some people very happy".

Only if it's on account of throat cancer.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 10:00 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


You even stole the monkeyfilter joke!

That said, I read this when it popped up on POENews and it horrified me. They all sound like half of my family.
posted by absalom at 10:02 AM on July 18, 2007


And, yeah, the writer is too snotty by half. In a situation like this, I don't see the reason not to play it straight, as the people he's writing about set themselves up well enough already.
posted by absalom at 10:04 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


You'd never guess from this piece that Hari was such a cheerleader for the Iraq war.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:06 AM on July 18, 2007


Between the snotty liberal Hari and the snotty-but-hides-it-a-little-bit libertarian O'Rourke, I'll take Hari anyday.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:09 AM on July 18, 2007


So, the opposite is true?
posted by A189Nut at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2007


This seems really similar to the Stephen Glass article about young Republicans.
posted by proj at 10:11 AM on July 18, 2007


Man wastes money and time confirming own suspicions. Film at 11.
posted by fire&wings at 10:12 AM on July 18, 2007


chuckdarwin : I love how the neocon solution to complex issues is always execution and fear-mongering. Ironically, they sound just like the Muslim extremists they fear/hate.

They live on Park Avenue, they explain in precise Northern tones. "You must live near the UN building," the Floridian says to one of the New York ladies after the entree is served. Yes, she responds, shaking her head wearily. "They should suicide-bomb that place," he says.

You ain't kidding. And I like that they didn't suggest that it should be 'bombed' but that it should be 'suicide bombed'. Are there a lot of National Review readers that willing to kill themselves for their beliefs?

Because somehow I doubt it.
posted by quin at 10:13 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


fandango_matt writes "Ship of Fools."

♫ Will you walk away from a ship of fools and their money? ♫
posted by elpapacito at 10:16 AM on July 18, 2007


This is fascinating reading. Buckley himself appears to be an outcast in the conservative movement, brushed aside and shouted down by the neocons.
posted by Pastabagel at 10:16 AM on July 18, 2007


derail: I really don't get the UN hatred on the right. It's not like the US even pays its membership fees, so what exactly is the problem?
posted by DU at 10:17 AM on July 18, 2007


The things these people say sound like madness, but I have to listen to half of these things at family reunions. Two cousins of mine have worked in the Bush White House. They talk of the man who "restored honor to the presidency." My lifelong Republican father even thinks they're delusional.
posted by TrialByMedia at 10:21 AM on July 18, 2007


Which muslim's "are coming dept." ? When you say "the muslim's", it seems like there's only just the one. I have it on good authority that there are many.
posted by Mister_A at 10:22 AM on July 18, 2007


He founded the National Review in 1955 - when conservatism was viewed in polite society as a mental affliction

Huh? The fifties were a hotbed of radicalism?
posted by jonmc at 10:23 AM on July 18, 2007


I've never agreed with much of what Buckley professed but at least he seemed to be living in concrete observable reality. These folks seem to be living in a wholly constructed artificial universe that only slightly resembles ours.
posted by octothorpe at 10:25 AM on July 18, 2007


So, wait; Conservatives have no sense of humor and are generally divorced from reality? You don't say...
posted by Pecinpah at 10:25 AM on July 18, 2007


We are living through a period of high ideology manifest as a Reformation to the liberal 20th century. I can't wait for the counter-Reformation (is it 2008 yet?)
posted by stbalbach at 10:25 AM on July 18, 2007


Huh? The fifties were a hotbed of radicalism?
Yeah. Don't you remember how Joe McCarthy had to root out all the pinkos?
posted by TrialByMedia at 10:27 AM on July 18, 2007


"One of the Park Avenue ladies declares that she gets on her knees every day to 'thank God for Fox News.'"

Seriously, what an odd spirituality!

It boggles the mind
posted by milarepa at 10:28 AM on July 18, 2007


?The fifties were a hotbed of radicalism?

This was an era, remember, when the Republican president warned about the encroaching "military industrial complex," regarded people who wanted to dismantle Social Security as "idiots," and government initiatives in the service of "welfare" were considered huge political winners.
posted by deanc at 10:31 AM on July 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Fascinating article. I loved the questions he asked Ken Starr to his face.

Hari himself is something of an ass. Here's what he now says about iraq.
The lamest defence I could offer – one used by many supporters of the war as they slam into reverse gear – is that I still support the principle of invasion, it’s just the Bush administration screwed it up.
So... if Bush and his generals would have killed more arabs and faster he would have saved the war? Err, ok, but dont knock your ideological buddies on the cruise to regain some kind of credbility with the sane people of the world.

I cant decide which article is more pathetic.
posted by damn dirty ape at 10:33 AM on July 18, 2007


So, wait; Conservatives have no sense of humor and are generally divorced from reality? You don't say...

To be fair, I've found that to be true of zealots in general, regardless of ideology.

This was an era, remember, when the Republican president warned about the encroaching "military industrial complex," regarded people who wanted to dismantle Social Security as "idiots," and government initiatives in the service of "welfare" were considered huge political winners.

It's also an era where Nixon was the second-in-command and people like Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn held considerable sway in politics.
posted by jonmc at 10:35 AM on July 18, 2007


Prayers for MetaFilter, anyone? ; )

No way -- I'm still recovering from what happened the last time I got on my knees and closed my eyes around here.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:35 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I'm finding it fascinating how much vitriol they have saved up for one another. I mean, we know they hate the liberals. And there is no question that Muslims are a serious enemy. Not to mention the Mexicans (though they went to Mexico to vacation...)

But when all of these groups are absent, they seem to be more than happy to dump their outrage on others in their own group.

Podhoretz excitedly talks himself into a beautiful web of words, vindicating his every position. He fumes at Buckley, George Will and the other apostate conservatives who refuse to see sense. He announces victory.

I've known people like this. People who just aren't happy unless they have an enemy to rage against. It's a very corrosive personality type. I don't think I could have done what this journalist did; my temper would have gotten the best of me and it would have turned into a bad horror movie: it starts with a National Review cruise and ends with a modern Mary Celeste.
posted by quin at 10:35 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's also an era where Nixon was the second-in-command and people like Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn held considerable sway in politics.

True. But my point was that what Buckley regarded as the threat to the country was the encroaching acceptance of FDR's New-Deal America. He and many conservatives did regard that as being a symptom of an America that had become a hotbed of radicalism.

True, Roy Cohn and Nixon may have part of the political background, but both would have been alienated for calling for the end of Social Security. Whereas in this day and age, such a position is considered almost (but not quite) mainstream among the elite classes.
posted by deanc at 10:40 AM on July 18, 2007


jonmc-- in the 1940s and 50s, "conservative" was a dirty word. Maybe more so than "liberal" has been the last 20. It was associated with failure in the Great Depression, and isolationism in the face of totalitarian expansion. See this Viereck article defending conservatism at a time when few others would.

Of course you're right that McCarthy, Cohn, J. Edgar Hoover, and various other non-liberal personages held a great deal of power at that time. But conservatism as an ideology was not held to be in good standing at that time.
posted by ibmcginty at 10:43 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


So, jessamyn, I thought we were against one-sided screeds here on Metafilter.
posted by Krrrlson at 10:48 AM on July 18, 2007


You should probably be aware that a few hefty pinches of salt are usually advisable when reading Mr. Hari's writings. He has on occasion, shall we say, a somewhat economical attitude towards the truth.
posted by flashboy at 10:52 AM on July 18, 2007


I read this article earlier when I saw it on MoFi. To me it totally reads like fiction.
posted by Eekacat at 10:54 AM on July 18, 2007


How embarassing for right-wingers to be outed this way. The boat need only have capsized for added irony.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:56 AM on July 18, 2007


Prayers for MetaFilter, anyone? ; )

To the Flying Spaghetti Monster I hope ?
posted by Webbster at 10:57 AM on July 18, 2007


...The boat need only have capsized for added irony.

"Oh the humani... never mind..."
posted by Webbster at 10:59 AM on July 18, 2007


derail: I really don't get the UN hatred on the right. It's not like the US even pays its membership fees, so what exactly is the problem?

In the mythology of The Radical Right, the UN is a harbinger of the "One World Government" that will in turn herald the coming of The Antichrist and the Final Battle of Armageddon.
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 11:01 AM on July 18, 2007


It's also an era where Nixon was the second-in-command ...

Nixon was a raging commie by comparison. Didn't he sign the EPA into existence?
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:01 AM on July 18, 2007


Devil's Rancher: indeed he did, and I'm aware that Bush & Co are way further to the right than Nixon & Eisenhower, (not so much Cohn & McCarthy, who they seem to see as role models), but make no mistake, all the aforementioned people were definitely right wing.
posted by jonmc at 11:05 AM on July 18, 2007


Yep. Bush has done a great job of making his daddy and Nixon look like decent presidents.
posted by Mister_A at 11:06 AM on July 18, 2007 [2 favorites]


Not that I don't think this would look like the Vegas lizard scene from Fear and Loathing, but this article so drips "I hate these people, and did before I ever set foot on this boat" that I can't help but take every outrageous statement he relates and say "how much did he embellish that?".
posted by kjs3 at 11:14 AM on July 18, 2007


In the mythology of The Radical Right, the UN is a harbinger of the "One World Government" that will in turn herald the coming of The Antichrist and the Final Battle of Armageddon.
True. Check the archives of Slacktivist's Left Behind-analysis series to see how this mentality plays itself out in the Radical Right's perception of the world. The plot of the first book involves a nefarious conspiracy by the anti-Christ to have an ally get to be the UK's representative on the security council so that the representative can make the anti-Christ Secretary General of the United Nations! Who knew that Kofi Anan was part of the secret government that rules the world?
posted by deanc at 11:15 AM on July 18, 2007


Couldn't get through it all. Reminded me too much of having dinner at Dad's house.
posted by hermitosis at 11:15 AM on July 18, 2007


Minus the affluence, of course.
posted by hermitosis at 11:16 AM on July 18, 2007


Huh. I really should hole up with the family on a mountain.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:19 AM on July 18, 2007


I am voting for a Philip K. Dick simulacrum for president, because at this point, what's the harm?
posted by Mister_A at 11:22 AM on July 18, 2007


Isn't this a troll?
posted by rush at 11:28 AM on July 18, 2007


"Yes, D'Souza says, in a swift shift to domestic politics, "of course" Republican politics is "about class. Republicans are the party of winners, Democrats are the party of losers."
posted by MythMaker at 11:33 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


I read an article about this a while ago, but this one is more in depth. These people are out of their minds.
posted by delmoi at 11:35 AM on July 18, 2007


I read this article earlier when I saw it on MoFi. To me it totally reads like fiction.
posted by Eekacat at 12:54 PM on July 18


It would to me, if I didn't hear phrases EXACTLY like this on a weekly basis from people I would otherwise trust and respect.

Things are getting a little better though, because it used to be DAILY. I think there is some measure of shame setting in. But, I've found people will still be very open and shockingly blunt if they think you're on their team.

I usually surprise people who don't know me very well. I guess because I'm a white, relatively young executive in a notoriously conservative field (healthcare) in the South, people just automatically assume I'm a staunch conservative, which couldn't be further from the truth.

So, often they will say outrageous things to me, and then look bewildered when I challenge them or contradict them. It also usually stops the conversation COLD.
posted by Ynoxas at 11:41 AM on July 18, 2007


Between the snotty liberal Hari and the snotty-but-hides-it-a-little-bit libertarian O'Rourke, I'll take Hari anyday.

My country ideology, right or wrong, eh? Because Hari was very, very wrong, and didn't figure it out until last year.
posted by Snyder at 11:48 AM on July 18, 2007


Creating that kind of uncomfortable silence can be great fun, Ynoxas. Shutting up an idiot can bring enormous satisfaction.
posted by Mister_A at 11:50 AM on July 18, 2007


They're all just trying to figure out who Sunday is.
posted by drezdn at 11:51 AM on July 18, 2007 [1 favorite]


What amazes and depresses me is how the hell Mark Steyn can stand the company.

Even if the author over-egged certain details, as others here have suggested, what the fuck is Steyn-the-humorist doing there? The guy isn't stupid, and even though I loathe his population alarmist shtick, I still love his mordant take on many things.

Is he terribly hard up or something?
posted by Jody Tresidder at 12:04 PM on July 18, 2007


Yep. Bush has done a great job of making his daddy and Nixon look like decent presidents.

Compared to his son, George H.W. Bush is a giant.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:05 PM on July 18, 2007


Please, somebody, get rid of the apostrophe in "Muslim's." It hurts me.
posted by bookish at 12:10 PM on July 18, 2007


British Alternet reporter pays $6000 to go on a cruise for National Review readers

From the article:
From time to time, National Review - the bible of American conservatism - organises a cruise for its readers. I paid $1,200 to join them.

/nitpick.

Good read, though.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 12:10 PM on July 18, 2007


What, no nigger jokes? No gay genocide advocacy? Nary a "glass parking lot" to be found?

These guys are amateurs.

And a lot of Americans really, really, really fucking suck.
posted by LordSludge at 12:18 PM on July 18, 2007


Mark Steyn is a humorist?

Mark Steyn is an extremist conservative newspaper columnist.
posted by watsondog at 12:18 PM on July 18, 2007


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