Comments on: "Your brain knows the shape of the word."

"Your brain knows the shape of the word."

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:06:01 -0800

How the new type standard for American road signage reduces halation and improves readability.

By: antipasta_explosion

antipasta_explosion — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:14:03 -0800

By: quin

quin — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:17:19 -0800

Not that I dispute the value of the new font, but it's a little unfair that in the photos, the first 'old' example is weather damaged where the Clearview one is nice and clean. Of course it's going to look better and be more readable. Still, it will be weird to see these on the roads. I guess I never really thought about the font used on highway signage, but the idea that it might change seems like something that will bug me. I'll be driving into work wondering the whole way what feels different, and completely unable to identify what it is.

By: Haruspex

Haruspex — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:22:21 -0800

I'm fond of Frere-Jones Interstate with its savage angles, but I can see the merit of Clearview. Less sparkle, more generous x-height?

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:23:00 -0800

The article says the Clearview font were designed in the U.S., but after seeing these signs locally in Dallas I noticed a strong resemblence to the typeface long used in British road signs. I wonder if there is any influence that is not being credited. I thought the very same. If you look at the lower-case Clearview 'L' glyphs, you'll notice they are rounded in the same way as in British Transport, and it is a detail that lends a distinct impression on viewers.

By: solipsophistocracy

solipsophistocracy — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:24:27 -0800

quin, Won't you know what's different though, having already explicitly addressed the potential change? Does anyone know if there's been a lot of research on font and cognition? A cursory investigation yielded few results on my part, but my Google-fu is definitely Grasshopper-style.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:25:09 -0800

I thought everyone just blindly followed the pleasant mechanical voice emanating from the GPS receiver to get around.

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:31:20 -0800

If the government just drafted the local juveniles and made them spray paint roadsigns for community service, they could save a lot of money. Cuz that's what they been doing to the road signs in my area anyway.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:31:33 -0800

Less than a generation ago, fonts were for the specialist, an esoteric pursuit, what Stanley Morison, the English typographer who helped create Times New Roman in the 1930s, called "a minor technicality of civilized life." Now, as the idea of branding has claimed a central role in American life, so, too, has the importance and understanding of type. Fonts are image, and image is modern America. Oh ah. Erm, I mean "Amen!"

By: CCBC

CCBC — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:33:27 -0800

The font is not (yet) available for free download but Roadgeek has worked up an approximation: 2005 1B through 6B here. Other highway fonts there, too.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:37:38 -0800

CCBC, see the second link.

By: CCBC

CCBC — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:45:10 -0800

_{sorry about that}

By: enn

enn — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:48:07 -0800

It may be readable, but that is the most insipid typeface I've ever seen. And those ghastly little curling bits at the bottom of the lowercase Ls — truly painful.

By: parallax7d

parallax7d — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:50:41 -0800

They should have gone with Comic Sans

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 13:58:22 -0800

This Roadgeek guy seems to know more than just a bit about this country's roads, but just as intriguing are his thoughts on this country's direction. Methinks we should improve the font that this country's leaders are reading. Seems they're having trouble with halation at high speeds too. Maybe the Constitution needs to be in Clearview.

By: DU

DU — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:22:16 -0800

I can feel this new font working already. It tingles.

By: rolypolyman

rolypolyman — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:43:17 -0800

They should have gone with Comic Sans. I felt compelled to see what this would look like.

By: rolypolyman

rolypolyman — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:46:37 -0800

P.S. I found a real example of Comic Sans -- in a turnpike plaza. I wonder if any Sims work there.

By: Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese

Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:51:35 -0800

I felt compelled to see what this would look like. More please!

By: luftmensch

luftmensch — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 14:54:25 -0800

Urgh. It may be easier to see, but not to look at. Still, if it helps road safety and whatnot, I guess it's an improvement. Function should come before aesthetics, as much as I hate that.

By: odinsdream

odinsdream — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:05:47 -0800

That was a really tiring article... and I like typography.

By: rolypolyman

rolypolyman — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:06:45 -0800

Here, Kraftmatic. I'm quitting now before I get in trouble for thread drift.

By: Mikey-San

Mikey-San — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:26:59 -0800

Happy little switches inside my head flipped back and forth while I read this article, like bubbles in soda twinkling to the surface. More, please. :D

By: etaoin

etaoin — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:32:21 -0800

my favorite part is how the new typeface also cut the distance to listed cities in half.

By: quin

quin — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:53:41 -0800

I felt compelled to see what this would look like. *blinks* That looked way better than I expected. We should use that. It would be comical, and... sans-like.

By: quin

quin — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 15:55:43 -0800

my favorite part is how the new typeface also cut the distance to listed cities in half. Puny mortal! Witness the power of TYPOGRAPHY!

By: afx114

afx114 — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:18:34 -0800

The new signs are nice, but there is a big problem, especially at night. If it's damp out, the new surface gathers dew and becomes completely unreadable. The reflective surface no longer reflects. You'd think that they would have tested that our before deploying them nation-wide??

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:23:18 -0800

I noticed a strong resemblence to the typeface long used in British road signs. You know you're in the UK when every bit of public signage is in Gill Sans or a close relative. Except for the stickers that read "fire door/keep closed" in Helvetica. But at least everything's exceptionally easy to read. I don't care if American roadsigns are homely/ripped-off as long as they're easy to read from a distance. And a Gill Sans derivative is about the clearest typeface around.

By: evilcolonel

evilcolonel — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:47:05 -0800

It'll be fine when implemented properly. Where I live it seems very little attention is paid to standardization. So the street signs in my city use a whole mess of typefaces, that generally depend on when the sign was installed. Highway Gothic, Helvetica, badly scaled Clearview, you name it.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 16:49:05 -0800

I didn't RTFA but isn't that the same typeface they use in Germany?

By: katemonster

katemonster — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:34:37 -0800

afx114, thank you! I've seen some of the new signs and hated them because they were completely unreadable at night. When I read the article I thought I was taking crazy pills -- halation is a definite problem for me, so the new signs should be better. But the problem I've experienced is exactly as you described; the entire sign is dark and unreflective, leaving me completely SOL. Now at least I know why I hate the new, "readable" signs so much. And burhanistan, clearly you do not have the same GPS lady I do, or you do not disobey her as frequently. I swear she gets pissier every single time she says "recalculating". I fear for her blood pressure when I detour to avoid a traffic jam.

By: Shakeer

Shakeer — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:54:46 -0800

my favorite part is how the new typeface also cut the distance to listed cities in half. The new sign is also one mile further down the road, as the mile marker below it indicates.

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 17:58:36 -0800

antipasta_explosion: there is influence, and it is indeed credited. Look at this slide from the slideshow in which they compared several existing typefaces used for roadsigns, including the British and German ones.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:03:44 -0800

Ok, this is dumb, but earlier today I was thinking about having a discussion with some of my roadgeek friends about highway sign fonts. No, I had no knowledge of this FPP's subject material, or that a change had been made. SPOOKEY

By: etaoin

etaoin — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 18:12:21 -0800

my favorite part is how the new typeface also cut the distance to listed cities in half. The new sign is also one mile further down the road, as the mile marker below it indicates. posted by Shakeer at 8:54 PM on August 11 [+] [!] Wow, good for you. If I could read the mile marker on my laptop screen, I guess it wouldn't matter what font was used.

By: churl

churl — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:18:00 -0800

I don't like how the 6s and 9s look a lot more like 8s than they used to. Too easy to mistake at a quick glance / through fog / etc. Seems like a step backward.

By: rolypolyman

rolypolyman — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 19:46:13 -0800

On the old FHWA typeface I used to hate the incomplete descenders on "g"s. I used to wince on I-10 northwest of San Antonio seeing all the exit signs for "Boerne Staqe Road".

By: Chuckles

Chuckles — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 20:02:47 -0800

From the slideshow:

After it analyzed existing typefaces, the design team failed to identify a font with the desired characteristics and decided to design two new typefaces.

Clearly the new font couldn't possibly be anything like the British or German one. :)

By: kaemaril

kaemaril — Sat, 11 Aug 2007 21:17:42 -0800

What, a thread about typography and no mention of how dreadful and ghastly Arial is? Tsk tsk. I know it's the weekend, but that's no reason to slack off :)

By: LooseFilter

LooseFilter — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 01:13:15 -0800

rolypolyman: I felt compelled to see what this would look like. Whoa....that sign is for the town I live in, in California....weird....

By: MtDewd

MtDewd — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 03:18:53 -0800

I only notice fonts when I can't read them, so I had to read well into the article to see what was going on. The slideshow sums it up well. What are those things called at the bottom of the 'l's? I looked in Wiki about typeface without success. I liked how they said that large blocks of text are more readable in serif fonts, but it was in sans. (or is that my browser?) rolypolyman: got any signs in Wingdings?

By: Plutor

Plutor — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:28:05 -0800

Eideteker: "Ok, this is dumb, but earlier today I was thinking about having a discussion with some of my roadgeek friends about highway sign fonts. No, I had no knowledge of this FPP's subject material, or that a change had been made." What the world needs is a comprehensive list of all of the current ClearView signs. I remember seeing a whole bunch in Pennsylvania last year. But the closest one to us that I'm aware of is right in the middle of Waterbury, CT on I-84 westbound. Exit 21ish, maybe? Every time I see it I have this "God, that sign is really nice, what's wrong with it?" moment.

By: maryh

maryh — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 07:29:38 -0800

That's horrifyingly apt, rolypolyman. Now, if you added "LOLZRENDITION" that plane would be flyin' off to 'undisclosed locations' in total BushCraft style.

By: joeclark

joeclark — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 08:18:44 -0800

For those of you dismissing Clearview Hwy as "ugly" or similar, are you applying the wrong criteria? Just who exactly said that signage fonts have to be something other than ugly, or have any kind of beauty, or lack of it, at all? Also for those same people: The article stated that Clearview variants for running text have been designed. Perhaps they're less "ugly," if that is still a criterion. Could you do your homework, please? And you can all give up any delusion that Clearview variants will be available for free download. You want 'em, you pay for 'em.

By: bad grammar

bad grammar — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 12:58:03 -0800

Have they also decreased the spacing between letters in Clearview? In the older font, the spacing between letters now looks excessive and reminds me of that old German typographic convention for emphasis, which looks l i k e t h i s and which gives me a headache. ("Old" being relative: it is newer than the days of black-letter, but I've seen it only in mid-twentieth century academic papers.)

By: bad grammar

bad grammar — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 13:07:13 -0800

The double-spaced letters for emphasis, called sperren in German, are also seen on early twentieth-century envelopes (written with a typewriter). Variant forms of emphasis (scroll down) Correction: sperren in fact originated in the black-letter period, since boldfacing or italic was not possible in black letter, as the linked article explains. The persistence of sperren in German academic publishing was probably due to tradition as was putting scholars' names in CAPITALS (regrettably adopted by some English scholars). As to why I recall obsolete typographic conventions, I have a degree in classical studies and we read a lot of old stuff (not just ancient old).

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 20:48:07 -0800

And you can all give up any delusion that Clearview variants will be available for free download. You want 'em, you pay for 'em. I already did pay for them. So gimme.

By: dpcoffin

dpcoffin — Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:40:03 -0800

Man, I love tpypography (and road signs) but I couldn't follow this article OR the graphics. In almost every slide I couldn't tell WHICH example they were trying to show as the more legible. Maybe my eyes don't work right, but it's hard for me to believe that this whole exercise won't someday be seen as a whole lot of distinctions without any differences.