Comments on: "If people do not accept our position on creationism, they do not have to watch."

"If people do not accept our position on creationism, they do not have to watch."

goodnewsfortheinsane — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:42:04 -0800

Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch. See the differences; here's a detailed write-up by a Dutch biologist and documentary enthusiast comparing the two versions side-by-side (in Dutch).

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:42:11 -0800

For clarity: EO ["Evangelical Broadcast"] is one of The Netherlands' many public broadcasters entitled by law to provide broadcasts tailored to reflect their societal identity. In this case, various episodes of the series were altered, and one was omitted entirely.

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:46:39 -0800

All else aside, sir, I have to say that "Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch." makes me giggle.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:47:24 -0800

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:53:46 -0800

All else aside, sir, I have to say that "Guess who's censoring references to evolution out of David Attenborough documentaries? That's right, the Dutch." makes me giggle. All else aside? How can there be anything else after that kind of a lead in. Well played.

By: aerotive

aerotive — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:54:56 -0800

This is not so gezellig.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:58:49 -0800

First they came for the evolutionists, but I said nothing; because I thought being sent to the Dutch Ovens would be a funny way to go.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 08:59:18 -0800

Where's your liberal-Low-Countries secular humanist civic perfection now, Hollanders? Still not forgiven you for the Raid on the Medway

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:03:11 -0800

I don't see how you can call one evangelical broadcaster "The Dutch", but whatever.

By: damn dirty ape

damn dirty ape — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:03:25 -0800

The Dutch, I knew it. Even when it wasnt the Dutch, I knew it was the Dutch!

By: Floydd

Floydd — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:08:36 -0800

First they killed all our Elm trees, because the wood was no good for making shoes....

By: silence

silence — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:11:35 -0800

I don't really have a problem with the Dutch broadcaster in this issue - they should be able to broadcast whatever crap they want. The responsible party here is the BBC who should be ashamed of themselves, this utterly betrays their educational remit.

By: mystyk

mystyk — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:11:44 -0800

So a fundie group with ties to public money bought exclusive rights to and then altered content that disagreed with their views? Stop the presses! Seriously, information warfare is nothing new. This shit happens under the initiatives of "King George" here in the U.S. all the time. The only way to defeat it is to educate, then continually reinforce. Propaganda vs. Science. At least people are fighting for the truth on this one...

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:13:15 -0800

And having now read the links, it does seem shoddy of the BBC if the only licensed Dutch version will be put out by these propagandists. I realise plenty of Dutch people will have access to and understand the English-language original, but still.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:15:41 -0800

Exactly what silence said. The scandal here is that the BBC sold the broadcast rights to this group knowing they were going to do this.

By: signal

signal — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:19:51 -0800

There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch. I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them. She didn't see this as a contradiction.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:29:17 -0800

"I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them." I saw an example of this sort of thing, with regard to Asians also, among some supposedly enlightened Canadians in Ontario who were, as they often pointed out, not racists like most Americans. And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window. People are people. 90% of what 90% of people claim to believe are not actual beliefs—they are little badges that signify social affiliation. That's why consistency isn't required and inconsistency isn't noticed.

By: WinnipegDragon

WinnipegDragon — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:33:21 -0800

The Dutch are bad and all, but I'm sick of the Swiss. Got a problem with that, Belgium?

By: etaoin

etaoin — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:35:27 -0800

And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window. And the Turks about the Kurds. And the Japanese about the Vietnamese, the latter about the Chinese, etc.etc. I have a friend who adopted a little girl from Bulgaria. Having a Russian father consigned her to foreign adoption. (Her mother couldn't take care of her but the orphanage would have found her a local home if her father were Bulgarian.) Who knew?

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:36:47 -0800

For those who may not get the reference, it's not actually my opinion, but the opinion of my good friend Nigel Powers.

By: stumcg

stumcg — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:41:18 -0800

the BBC who should be ashamed of themselves, this utterly betrays their educational remit Does the educational remit of the BBC extend past the shores of the UK? Surely they're only bound by a duty to the British public (who help fund them via the annual television license) not other countries. it does seem shoddy of the BBC if the only licensed Dutch version will be put out by these propagandists Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't say anywhere the BBC necessarily knew about this beforehand. If someone edits their programmes you'd expect they'd be informed and / or pissed about it, but it's not like they delivered it to the Dutch channel edited-to-order. From the 3rd comment on the 1st link... Its worth pointing out that some 80% of Dutch houses have cable, and the most basic cable package includes BBC 1&2. Failing that they can always catch it on Discovery which regularly shows BBC stuff. That said, this is a pretty sad move to censor out parts of a natural history doc on religious grounds. I guess they have less of a problem taking the 'see no evil' maxim from our monkey / ape cousins than the idea we might be descended from a common ancestor!

By: Djinh

Djinh — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:51:06 -0800

Let's keep all this in perspective, shall we? The EO is the Evangelische Omroep, or Evangelical Broadcaster. No one besides the christian fundis take them seriously. That said, cutting up one of Attenborough's works should be a capital crime, no matter what your delusions.

By: bruce

bruce — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:51:29 -0800

from now on we call them freedom ovens!

By: stumcg

stumcg — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 09:55:08 -0800

David Attenborough on the 'War on Science', previously... "It's so fundamentally against every scientific principle you can think of, that to put it in the same... bracket... is to seriously confuse thinking" (Google Video link... statement quoted is about 48s in) Someone should let him know about EO's 'tweaks' I think.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:01:16 -0800

Got a problem with that, Belgium? No need for profanity, you cricketing Krikkiter.

By: fydfyd

fydfyd — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:05:19 -0800

Seems like a pretty clear violation of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works §12 unless they have the permission of the BBC to alter the works (which somehow I doubt).

By: EatTheWeak

EatTheWeak — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:33:17 -0800

Here's my favorite bit from the links Director Henk Hagoort told Trouw that editing was normal in bought-in programmes. 'That also happens in drama series if, for example, there is a lot of swearing'. Well, that clears it up. Evolution isn't an opposing viewpoint to creationism. It isn't a theory shored up by heaps of empirical data. It's just offensive content, like tits or drama characters who say "fuck" a lot. Of course we've gotta snip that out! Think of the children!

By: kid ichorous

kid ichorous — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 10:42:30 -0800

signal: I actually had an ultra-liberal, uber-PC, multi-cultural, social working, anti-racist girlfriend who, for some reason, disliked asians. Not some asians, not some guy who happend to be asian, but all N-Billion of them. She didn't see this as a contradiction. "We've secretly conditioned our uber-PC test subject to replace every allusion to 'White Males' with "Asians." Let's see if anyone notices the difference!"

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 11:58:18 -0800

The greater disgrace is that there is no mention in any formal teaching of science or history that points to the Flying Spaghetti Monster. A pox on all their houses!

By: nebulawindphone

nebulawindphone — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:44:53 -0800

And whaddaya know -- I like tits, fucking and evolution!

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:11:24 -0800

"And talk to Europeans about the Roma—tolerance and anti-racism are thrown out the window." I was amused by signs next to Italian highway rest-stops that read, "DISTRUST THE GYPSIES!" I wish I had a photo of them.

By: jouke

jouke — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:18:57 -0800

Yes! Yes! Down with those double dutch speaking, dutch crossing, dutch treating, dutch courageous, dutch going, dutch fucking double-damned Dutch! Down with us! Gnfti, I'm afraid it will be hard to impress our US friends with our few marginal christians. Btw wanna meetup in NL? Visit the Metatalk post on the upcoming Netherlands meetup.

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:35:25 -0800

There's a meetup in my nether lands and everyone's invited.

By: jouke

jouke — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:47:53 -0800

I guess you don't have any dykes there

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 13:50:23 -0800

they're positively gushing, actually

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:00:00 -0800

can i put my finger in one of them?

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:22:06 -0800

~ fin ~

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:24:39 -0800

[NOT FINLANDIST]

By: jouke

jouke — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:52:59 -0800

Abiezer, that was one of our finest hours. Thank you for remembering your utter defeat. That admiral, Michiel de Ruijter, is still our top zeeheld (sea hero). One could make a good Hollywood story out of that.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Tue, 28 Aug 2007 19:47:40 -0800

I've got no problem with the Dutch. It's those swarthy shifty Belgian fuckers you have to be wary of.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:50:10 -0800

In Science magazine

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 29 Aug 2007 09:31:37 -0800

"I've got no problem with the Dutch. It's those swarthy shifty Belgian fuckers you have to be wary of." It's both. Stupid Flanders.