Comments on: White Flour?????

White Flour?????

Enron Hubbard — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:18:58 -0800

The proper way to deal with a KKK march (Do not click link while drinking liquids) With all the doom and gloom in the news these days, I was beginning to think there was nothing to be done to make things better. I was proven wrong. By clowns.

By: smackwich

smackwich — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:27:21 -0800

Unbelievable. Best post on the internets 2.0 in years.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:27:32 -0800

I could swear there was a link on MeFi a year or two ago about some black activist using clowns to battle the KKK back in the 50s.

By: ShadowCrash

ShadowCrash — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:29:44 -0800

Awesome. Thanks for the post.

By: sock it to me monkey

sock it to me monkey — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:29:48 -0800

I never thought I'd say this but...I really wish this was a YouTube link as well...any video available of the antics? Great find.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:30:46 -0800

Yeah, video would rule. Or even just some more pictures. Asploded-head Nazis would be quite a treat.

By: NotInTheBox

NotInTheBox — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:31:35 -0800

Positively wonderful... warms me tum tum. I would love to follow along with these people dressed as Rainbow Bright.... Think I found my calling.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:31:49 -0800

Oh hey, found one!

By: gomichild

gomichild — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:32:04 -0800

AWESOME!

By: DU

DU — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:32:28 -0800

Errr..wait. That video is from the POV of the Nazis. Ugh.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:34:11 -0800

Great idea, but wow, that was bad writing for a "news" article.

By: Cookiebastard

Cookiebastard — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:34:57 -0800

I must rethink my hatred of all clowns. I guess it's outweighed by my hatred of Nazis. Who knew?

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:37:26 -0800

Is clowns vs Nazis the new pirates vs ninjas?

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:40:48 -0800

I think I would've liked it better had the clowns been impersonating the KKK - you know, Clown Power! and so on. As it is, it seems like they're just giving them the attention that they obviously want. Instead, what if you were to set up on the other side of the street, everyone is wearing KKK robes, with rainbow-colored wigs poking out of the hood. And a big red nose poking through a hole in the front. And talk about how evil trapeze artists are or something. That would be a lot funnier and more to the point, instead of a bunch of hippies jumping around tossing flour into the air.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:42:43 -0800

Nazi pirates vs ninja clowns would be AWSUM.

By: gurple

gurple — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:43:13 -0800

What the hell are you talking about, billysumday? This was brilliant! This has got to be the greatest thing to happen in the Knoxville area pretty much ever, and I say this as someone with a lot of family right around there.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:46:34 -0800

What happened in the June rematch, or didn't it happen?

By: orange swan

orange swan — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 08:53:46 -0800

I'll bet it was hard to tell who the real clowns were.

By: homodigitalis

homodigitalis — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:01:10 -0800

Creativity beats hate. Humor has always been a weapon fanatics and fundamentalists had no defence against. All extreme and distorted belief systems can be easily kicked with laughter. That is why political cabaret was always hunted down by people like Hitler, Stalin and Mao. Also religions - Jesus, Mohammad and whatsoever jokes could literally kill ... and take away all the holyness ...

By: champthom

champthom — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:01:20 -0800

While I believe the Nazi and KKK has the right to say what they want to say, I must say that this is an awesome way to counter though. White Flour!

By: hermitosis

hermitosis — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:01:43 -0800

Wait, billysumday-- in order to fight the KKK, you should adopt the appearance and tactics of the KKK? I can't help but think that clowns dressing up in KKK robes would have been really ghastly and confusing and not nearly as frustrating to the actual KKK'ers. The point wasn't to sit back and be the funniest, it was to to directly engage and enrage their opponent. The most incredibly cool things happen when people completely give up on the idea of appearing cool. *throws flour*

By: srboisvert

srboisvert — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:04:15 -0800

I think the protest would have been much better if all the clowns were wearing business suits and had briefcases and they marched into an office tower and spent 7 hours checking sports scores and processing insurance premiums.

By: Sailormom

Sailormom — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:04:36 -0800

Metafilter: a bunch of hippies jumping around tossing flour into the air.

By: Alvy Ampersand

Alvy Ampersand — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:05:05 -0800

Clowns, Nazis, Clowns, Nazis... I-I'm torn in my hate. Maybe I'll just despise the writer of the article: "After the VNNers left in their shiny SUVs to go back to Alabama and all the other states that they were from..." Yeah. Okay.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:05:15 -0800

The point wasn't to sit back and be the funniest, it was to to directly engage and enrage their opponent. Yeah, because white supremacists hate to be engaged and enraged. in order to fight the KKK, you should adopt the appearance and tactics of the KKK? Yes, I think the KKK clowns should lynch people, burn down houses, and use hate speech to villify and marginalize minorities. I mean, seriously.

By: yoHighness

yoHighness — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:06:47 -0800

Great post - and I've seen it before! At the G8 summit in 2006 in Edinburgh (Scotland), Clowns messed with riot police, kissing their shields, taking the piss out of them, even rescuing a black bloc contingent from the police! (MPEG video for download) Awesome-o.

By: honest knave

honest knave — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:08:46 -0800

What a wonderful idea! Upon further research, the murder in question was rather gruesome. In fairness to the ostensible purpose of the KKK rally, it wouldn't be the first time there was a gov't/news coverup to avoid potential race/gender controversy. Nor is it always inappropriate to bring attention to such an event or coverup to raise awareness about an important social or legal issue, as was done in the case of Matthew Shepard. These guys haven't crossed the line between indignation and bigotry; they've never even seen it, they're so far from civil, rational discourse. The pleasure taken by the speaker in calling black people "beasts" was not just disgusting; it was rather frightening. It also looks like there's a rather racist chain email going around about it, according to Snopes.

By: Terminal Verbosity

Terminal Verbosity — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:15:58 -0800

"I asked one KKK member how he felt about the counter-marchers. 'Quite dour,' he responded with a slight glower. One clown was quoted as saying 'If we must, we'll keep this up till the midnight hour!' Reporting from Knoxville, this is Dwight Schauer."

By: EatTheWeak

EatTheWeak — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:16:33 -0800

How wonderful! And how funny the Klan really only filmed the kind of counter-demonstration that they're used to. The next step is to organize local clown response teams. How many of them can we stuff into a fire truck? White flowers!

By: yoHighness

yoHighness — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:18:11 -0800

nothing that much happens in the video though.

By: oncogenesis

oncogenesis — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:23:42 -0800

"White Flour?" the clowns yelled back running in circles throwing flour in the air and raising separate letters which spelt "White Flour". At which point the clown contingent were arrested and jailed on suspicion of terrorism.

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:25:51 -0800

Elwood: ~~Illinois~~ Knoxville Nazis. Jake: I hate ~~Illinois~~ Knoxville Nazis. [proceeds to drive car through demonstration]

By: goo

goo — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:26:27 -0800

This is great! Wife power!!

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:29:27 -0800

Great post! billysumday, I don't know what you're so cranky about. Humor and satire have long been used to mock, defuse, and even educate. Watched any Daily Show lately?

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:30:37 -0800

[this is magnificent]

By: schroedinger

schroedinger — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:34:48 -0800

Yeah, Nazis have been mocked since the beginning. Behold a WWII example.

By: estronaut

estronaut — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:38:26 -0800

terrific use of humor to show who the real fools are

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:41:21 -0800

When neo-nazis were making regular visits to town here a few years ago, the demonstrations would usually end with broken windows and occasional teargas. The baby fascists got free police escorts into and out of town while the protesters against them got arrested -- The neo-nazi organizers expected this and milked it for all it was worth. At the time I thought the only way to effectively protest them would be to have the whole crowd laughing hard at everything they did. This is even better. Paramilitaries are willing to endure physical and verbal abuse for their cause, but this sort of public shaming goes right around their prepared emotional defenses.

By: SBMike

SBMike — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:42:25 -0800

"Rhetoric does not get you anywhere, because Hitler and Mussolini are just as good at rhetoric. But if you can bring these people down with comedy, they stand no chance." -Mel Brooks this is very cool. Thanks for posting.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:45:34 -0800

billysumday, I don't know what you're so cranky about. Humor and satire have long been used to mock, defuse, and even educate. Watched any Daily Show lately? Obviously I wasn't nearly articulate in my first post. I'm glad that they're using humor. I understand that they are trying to be funny. What I am suggesting, though, would be, I think, a much funnier and effective approach to the same situation. Whereas this approach is direct engagement, I think it would be both more humorous and more cutting to have a simultaneous protest on the other side of the street in which you have clowns impersonating and therefore directly mocking the Nazi's. Don't even acknowledge that the white supremacists are there. Just go about the business of spewing hate speech about "elephant riders" and "those dirty trapezers" and other sorts of relatively vague circus groups. Do it while dressed as a clown who is trying to hide their identity. Talk incessantly about Clown Power, and about the Great Clown Race and so forth. People will draw the comparison themselves. And if you're funny enough, they will all line up and watch you instead of the White Supremacists. Humor is a lot funnier with a straight face, I thought everyone knew that. I mean, have you ever seen the Daily Show?

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:49:21 -0800

This piece was terribly written. Which is why I will continue to hate clowns.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:49:47 -0800

Obviously I wasn't nearly articulate in my first post. You can say that again... (meant to say nearly articulate enough)...

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:50:05 -0800

I do, however, agree with SBMike and Mel Brooks.

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 09:59:08 -0800

Humor is a lot funnier with a straight face, I thought everyone knew that. I mean, have you ever seen the Daily Show? posted by billysumday Do you mean Colbert Report? Because Jon Stewart doesn't take on the demeanor of the people he mocks - he just mocks them. Colbert does a different take on it, which I don't find as funny, but that's just a personal preference thing - it clearly works, as well.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:02:46 -0800

Do you mean Colbert Report? Because Jon Stewart doesn't take on the demeanor of the people he mocks - he just mocks them. Well, the correspondents make a living out of mocking people with straight faces, as if everything were deadly serious. Anyway, enough out of me. Back to the cheery huzzahs!!

By: ZenMasterThis

ZenMasterThis — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:05:29 -0800

This fills my heart with hope for the human race.

By: doctorschlock

doctorschlock — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:10:05 -0800

About 20 years ago in D.C., the KKK marched along the avenues. I was one of the protesters. Things got heated up and the KKK changed their route. Many of them decided not to march, but to ride along a secret route to Capitol Hill. Meanwhile, the crowd figured it out and pressed forward. The riot squad held us back and for some strange reason, I ended up in the front. Being a jokester, I asked the officers if they were going to gas or bean us? They laughed. It was cool. I asked another officer if we could sneak by and borrow his gun. He laughed. It was cool. Word got out that the Klan had shortened their speech and had left in another bus. The crowd slowly dispersed and I didn't get shot, so it was a good day.

By: quin

quin — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:10:31 -0800

Fantastic. A elegant tactic to use against hate-mongers with no sense of humor. Though like Alvy A, I'm torn; I appreciate the actions being reported on, but I want to cause harm to the person reporting it: It was at this point that several observers reported seeing several Klan members heads exploding in rage and they stopped trying to explain to the clowns what they wanted. *groans* Was this written by an over-enthusiastic child? Clowns: 1 KKK Nazis: 0 Writer: -1

By: billyfleetwood

billyfleetwood — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:13:48 -0800

What I am suggesting, though, would be, I think, a much funnier and effective approach to the same situation. There's a saying billysumday, that covers situations where somebody does something good, and someone comes along and knocks them for not being perfect. I hate that saying, so I'm not going to use it, and I don't really think that's what you're attempting to do. What would be even better would be if people didn't wait for the KKK to show up to have a light hearted, fun, and peaceful march for unity and tolerance. In the meantime, let's hope that this approach spreads and becomes more refined and successful in the future. But not so refined that it becomes serious, or god forbid, ironic. I think one of the basic foundations of this type of response isn't being funny, it's being silly. You're talking about satire, which definitely has it's place, but slapstick is also an effective weapon. slipping on a banana peel is funny regardless of age, intelligence or political leanings. It's about creating a situation where you pretty much have to be a hate filled buffoon NOT to laugh.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:30:42 -0800

But not so refined that it becomes serious, or god forbid, ironic. I don't understand. There are lots of "serious" protests against the KKK - what is wrong with people sincerely protesting against hate? As for irony, it would have two meanings in this case. One could use irony and yet still be completely earnest in their objection of the values of white supremacists. In fact, the clowns in the article are being a bit ironic in their feigned misunderstanding of the Nazis' chants. There's a saying billysumday, that covers situations where somebody does something good, and someone comes along and knocks them for not being perfect. I hate that saying, so I'm not going to use it Wait, don't tell me. Does it have something to do with high expectations?

By: hattifattener

hattifattener — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:42:36 -0800

Previously on Metafilter: Stetson Kennedy and "Superman vs. the KKK". (This may have been what you were thinking of, DU.)

By: wfc123

wfc123 — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:47:08 -0800

Too bad this was removed. I would have liked to have seen it.

By: Tehanu

Tehanu — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:51:23 -0800

This is awesome. Minus the writing. Errr..wait. That video is from the POV of the Nazis. Ugh. Yeah, ugh is right. Especially the comments from the Nazis off-camera throughout and the speech toward the end. Seems to be the only video of it on youtube though. Even a blogger who was a clown links to it. Knoxville News Sentinel (better writing). Photos. Blog entry by one of the Coup Clutz Clowns.

By: mmahaffie

mmahaffie — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:20:40 -0800

I can't remember where I read, or heard, the story, but I remember Molly Ivins talking (or writing) about a Klan rally at the state capital in Austin, TX. The good people of Austin reacted by lining the streets and, as one, dropping their pants and mooning the Klan members. My heart was warmed. These clowns make me happy as well, though the writing here was pretty poor. "Which one of you clowns wrote this copy, Dammit?!?!?"

By: jiawen

jiawen — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:23:11 -0800

Thanks for the links, Tehanu.

By: smackwich

smackwich — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:25:48 -0800

These clowns should be issued a medal.

By: konolia

konolia — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:32:43 -0800

Here's how the Klan got handled in the county next to mine, circa 1958: Don't mess with the Lumbee.

By: Pope Guilty

Pope Guilty — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:43:53 -0800

You know, konolia, I think this is a point we can agree on. :)

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:58:17 -0800

konolia, that's an awesome link, and a great story. Thanks!

By: sourwookie

sourwookie — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:04:03 -0800

A while back the Klan had a rally planned in our local park. Here was the plan I cooked up: I wanted to set up a nearby booth and collect donations, walk-a-thon style. People would pledge so much a minute for for however many minutes the KKK rally lasted, with all proceeds going to the NAACP. The longer the KKK rallied, the more money they raised for the NAACP.

By: desjardins

desjardins — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:25:03 -0800

billysumday, I think you've got a great idea.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:41:49 -0800

The clown response is a lovely idea, but if you look at the KKK video there, it's obvious the guy writing the article is writing halfway from his imagination of what was supposed to happen when they cooked up the plan (especially with regard to the explosion of the frustrated Klan members). The rally didn't even seem to have a "white power" chant, and if it had I'm sure they'd have altered things once they saw the opposition. It sounded far too "just like in the dream!" in the article to me, and I wasn't surprised no one could find a video. The Klan vid is actually pretty interesting on its own, actually, just to remind you how little they care that a bunch of hippies are teasing them, and how much those sorts of things are to make us feel better, not to change their minds or anything... Though the NAACP rally-a-thon is a pretty good idea.

By: thankyoujohnnyfever

thankyoujohnnyfever — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:51:43 -0800

This made my day. In a similar act of outsmarting the Ku Klux Klan I seem to remember about 10 years ago or so, the Klan tried to organize a rally in San Antonio and the mayor paid for 100 mariachi musicians to circle their protest and play the entire time.

By: C17H19NO3

C17H19NO3 — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:00:47 -0800

White Flour?

By: absalom

absalom — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:04:42 -0800

gurple: best thing after UT winning the national championships, right? Knoxville's a hell of a town, full of creative weirdos. Makes perfect sense to me. I love it.

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:29:20 -0800

This is very cool, but, as others have pointed out, so poorly written I initially thought it was an Onion-style parody.

By: Skorgu

Skorgu — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:54:17 -0800

I wholeheartedly endorse this product and/or service.

By: causticgnostic

causticgnostic — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 13:56:05 -0800

Thanks for that link, konolia! Being half Lumbee myself that really warms my heart. Of course, any example of people standing up to rascists warms my heart. And while the article was poorly written, let's not let that overshadow the power the pure clowning.

By: Myeral

Myeral — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:07:28 -0800

Clown schmown

By: samsara

samsara — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:27:46 -0800

Clowns are interestingly used a lot for this kind of thing....the OP kinda reminded me of the antics the Clandestine Insurgent Rebel Clown Army gets into. (though more anti-war than anti-racism). Great post!

By: lerrup

lerrup — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:36:02 -0800

¨While I believe the Nazi and KKK has the right to say what they want to say...¨ Why? You have the right to say that people should be murdered, exterminated and tortured? That just because you misunderstand the role of melanin and culture that mass murder and oppression is acceptable? I am sorry, but.... Too much.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:40:11 -0800

Why? You have the right to say that people should be murdered, exterminated and tortured? do you not understand the first amendment? That just because you misunderstand the role of melanin and culture that mass murder and oppression is acceptable? are you having trouble differentiating words and deeds? The right to free speech is guaranteed. Actions which impede other people's civil rights (as murder and oppression clearly do) are not.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:48:54 -0800

They have the right to speak, not the right to be taken seriously. Pretty much the right way to counter protest. Just not take them seriously at all. The NAACP fundraising thing is nifty too.

By: Enron Hubbard

Enron Hubbard — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:54:26 -0800

¨While I believe the Nazi and KKK has the right to say what they want to say...¨ Why? You have the right to say that people should be murdered, exterminated and tortured? Actually, I do believe they should have that right, and the clowns demonstrated the best way to deal with them saying such. But when laws start restricting what anyone can say, no matter how much you might disagree, then you have started the process of letting the government decide what the rest of us cannot say. (This is the inherent danger of hate speech laws.) You can't have freedom of some speech or it isn't really freedom at all.

By: lost_cause

lost_cause — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:58:20 -0800

Even if the clowns were a bunch of western NC Earth-First! hippies, today I am proud of my State. Wife Shower? I'm in.

By: sotonohito

sotonohito — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:08:21 -0800

Mockery is definately the second best way to deal with this sort of thing. The best was described by sourwookie. Its been succesfully used by Planned Parenthood to deal with protesters (who, oddly, protested my local PP office for a while, despite the fact that abortions are not, actually, performed there). But mockery is good too. And fun. What they (the Klan, or whoever) wants is outrage and attention. Mocking them deflates their poor little egos. Also, and speaking here as someone black by marriage, put me down in the "they've got a right to say it, that don't mean I have to like it or I can't mock/counterprotest/whatever" column. Restricting free speech, especially political speech, never works out well in the long run. The laws will *always* get twisted around to restrict speech you think is good.

By: konolia

konolia — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:15:18 -0800

Also, and speaking here as someone black by marriage My (white) daughter is sitting here with me at the computer and wants to know if she's black by marriage (her hubby is black, and my grandson-who just spit up on her leg-is simply cute. Take that, kkknazis!)

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:47:42 -0800

My (white) daughter is sitting here with me at the computer and wants to know if she's black by marriage Yes. I am Jewish by marraige which means I have a Liscense To Kvetch.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:05:41 -0800

You can't have freedom of some speech or it isn't really freedom at all. This canard always comes up in these sorts of threads. I note that Canada and Germany both have hate speech laws. I dunno about Germany, but I can strongly assert that I've yet to feel I've some sort of "false" freedom simply because neo-Nazi's can't run about publicising their idiotic spew. Nor have we raced down a slippery slope; there does not appear to be a desire to repress other speech. Indeed, it would seem that Canada has a lot less repression of speech than the USA, where the police and government seem overly keen to corral protestors, arrest people wearing anti-Bush t-shirts, and prevent public employees and scientists from speaking about environmental issues. Thanks for your concern about freedom of speech, but I think I'll take what we have — an absence of hate rallies and scientists who are allowed to publish their findings — to what you have.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:08:17 -0800

are you having trouble differentiating words and deeds? The right to free speech is guaranteed. Actions which impede other people's civil rights (as murder and oppression clearly do) are not. I think it can be easily argued that hate rallies are an action which impede others' rights by creating an environment/atmosphere and culture of fear, hatred, distrust, and violence. Hate speech is oppressive speech.

By: SisterHavana

SisterHavana — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 19:21:41 -0800

Hahahaha! That's great. : )

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:08:38 -0800

Clowns sabotage Minuteman III nuclear missile

By: Alvy Ampersand

Alvy Ampersand — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 20:41:46 -0800

Well put, fff.

By: meta_eli

meta_eli — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:16:03 -0800

/always thought the best response was to ignore them...

By: meta_eli

meta_eli — Thu, 30 Aug 2007 21:19:20 -0800

Hate speech is oppressive speech Yeah, but one man's hate speech is another's political rally. Know what I mean? I feel like this is the sort of thing that is really hard to codify in a way that doesn't rely on some form of "I know it when I see it"

By: perilous

perilous — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 00:04:00 -0800

Awesome article, writer of which will shortly be receiving my medical bills for treatment of bleeding eyes and burst brain syndrome. I hate clowns normally. These guys? Not so bad! My faith in humanity AND clownanity has been bolstered and (somewhat) restored! Great post, great links in some of the comments, too. Thanks!

By: lerrup

lerrup — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 03:41:37 -0800

"do you not understand the first amendment?" I do, but why assume that a) it applies to me, b) just because it is part of your constitution that it is therefore correct or inviolate and c) that your country applies it anything like a consistent and non-oppressive way in any case? In summary, what FFF said in both comments. With respect to hate speech, there is a difference between attacking a person's political choices and attacking them for what they are. I liked the clowns though...

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:43:28 -0800

"I know it when I see it" Which is a catch-22 problem universal to government enforcement. Who decides what speech is bad? In this case the atmosphere seemed free enough of fear such that clowns were able to ridicule the hate mongers. QED. This isn't to say the free speech zones and denial of funding attacks by Bushco on scientists isn't a problem. But curtailing free expression - at heart - creates the kind of sublimated aggression and frustration that more readily leads to acts which certainly do create a culture of fear. The KKK was initially an underground terrorist organization - the openness of their support base aside - they needed and relied upon their anonymity. Often they still do because they are committing acts of terror. The best way to deal with terrorists is through open communication. Most terrorism stems from not being able to get any attention for whatever given cause: wrong, right or selfish. This is not to argue the respective freedoms of whatever country to speak freely - a discussion which does have merit - but rather the mechanism of the ability to speak to the public in alleviation of violence. Social rejection is an extraordinarially strong method of halting what might otherwise be a more capable movement. Obviously a few idiots will proceed with their idiocy dispite a fair hearing, reasonable consideration and rejection. But you can't limit speech based on the lowest possible denominator or extreme minority. Silence and mystery can create a fog of mystique (using the early KKK as an example) that can attract people. In essence - the more people hear them, understand exactly what their message is (that they intend violence based on irrational ideas of ethnicity) the smaller their support will be. Clarity is a foolkiller.

By: Smedleyman

Smedleyman — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 09:49:06 -0800

(Same reasoning behind why you need to talk to your kids about drug usage rather than remaining silent. Or worse telling them it will give them ass herpes or will make them jump out of windows or other such nonsense. Falsehoods quickly become transparent and silence lends itself to mystique)

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:04:17 -0800

curtailing free expression - at heart - creates the kind of sublimated aggression and frustration that more readily leads to acts which certainly do create a culture of fear Yah. I mean, really, we Canucks live in constant fear, what with all the curtailing of free expression.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Mon, 03 Sep 2007 17:32:04 -0800

love this!