The Final Cut.
September 9, 2007 3:56 PM Subscribe
The Final Cut. "I never thought the end would come like this -- with me holding the end of my life's passion in one hand and a foot-long Italian sub on wheat in the other." The side of the NFL you rarely see: former Redskins lineman Ross Tucker tells his story.
I've always thought that professional sportsmen have it tough - being the golden boys (and girls) when so young, and then just stopping with so many more years ahead.
In the UK, ex-footballers (in the pre-millionaire days) traditionally became managers (coaches) of teams, or ran a pub. Not sure if it's the same in the US - wasn't the bar owner in Cheers a former sportsman?
posted by athenian at 4:10 PM on September 9, 2007
In the UK, ex-footballers (in the pre-millionaire days) traditionally became managers (coaches) of teams, or ran a pub. Not sure if it's the same in the US - wasn't the bar owner in Cheers a former sportsman?
posted by athenian at 4:10 PM on September 9, 2007
yeah, he was a baseball player. but i think the point of him owning the bar was that he was an alcoholic when he was in baseball.
posted by fuzzypantalones at 4:18 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by fuzzypantalones at 4:18 PM on September 9, 2007
"My mom will probably hate reading this, but more than the paycheck or the camaraderie of the locker room, I will really miss the violence."
Maybe he should take up dog fighting.
posted by Poolio at 4:20 PM on September 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Maybe he should take up dog fighting.
posted by Poolio at 4:20 PM on September 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Its strange to think about, but wouldn't the NFL players be "the dogs fighting" while the fans the spectators, the owners the profiteers. Don't forget the pounding which takes place on the bodies of NFL players, there's a cost. We can claim that NFL players differ from dogs in that they have agency over whether they play or not, but is this really so? Like the dogs who fight, NFL players throughout countless hours of training and preparation are indoctrinated into a certain mindset that causes the player to concede his own physical and psychological well being for the sake of entertainment.
posted by j-urb at 4:42 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by j-urb at 4:42 PM on September 9, 2007
Is there any such thing as free will, dawg?
posted by found missing at 4:46 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by found missing at 4:46 PM on September 9, 2007
j-urb writes "NFL players throughout countless hours of training and preparation are indoctrinated into a certain mindset that causes the player to concede his own physical and psychological well being for the sake of entertainment."
... and a dump truck filled with cash.
posted by krinklyfig at 4:52 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
... and a dump truck filled with cash.
posted by krinklyfig at 4:52 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I would like to do some violence on the people who assemble the cnnsi web site. Maybe it works ok with lynx.
posted by bukvich at 4:55 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by bukvich at 4:55 PM on September 9, 2007
Capitalist promise fails to pay off for shmoe. Dare to dream, everyone.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:56 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:56 PM on September 9, 2007
The Final Cut. "I never thought the end would come like this -- with me holding the end of my life's passion in one hand and a foot-long Italian...
Flagged as contributing to an unhealthy obsession with circumcision and penis size.
posted by Abiezer at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
Flagged as contributing to an unhealthy obsession with circumcision and penis size.
posted by Abiezer at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
We can claim that NFL players differ from dogs in that they have agency over whether they play or not, but is this really so?
FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE STOOPID, AMIRITE?
posted by dhammond at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
FOOTBALL PLAYERS ARE STOOPID, AMIRITE?
posted by dhammond at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
"...with me holding the end of my life's passion in one hand and a foot-long Italian sub on wheat in the other."
On Any Given Saturday Night
posted by hal9k at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
On Any Given Saturday Night
posted by hal9k at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
The side of the NFL you rarely see:
Very true. You always hear about the superstars, about the guys who got eighty million for this year, twenty milion a year for the next eight years, etc.
Lost in the hype is the fact that the typical NFL career runs for two seasons, maybe three. And the typical player is left with serious, lifelong health problems.
I have to say that it also was very heartening to read an account from an athlete who took a clear-eyed look at the NFL system and planned accordingly. He didn't piss away his money. He drove a beater car and viewed his pro career as a temp job. I wish him well and hope that his post-NFL career works out for him.
Thank you very much for posting this, bijou.
posted by jason's_planet at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
Very true. You always hear about the superstars, about the guys who got eighty million for this year, twenty milion a year for the next eight years, etc.
Lost in the hype is the fact that the typical NFL career runs for two seasons, maybe three. And the typical player is left with serious, lifelong health problems.
I have to say that it also was very heartening to read an account from an athlete who took a clear-eyed look at the NFL system and planned accordingly. He didn't piss away his money. He drove a beater car and viewed his pro career as a temp job. I wish him well and hope that his post-NFL career works out for him.
Thank you very much for posting this, bijou.
posted by jason's_planet at 5:05 PM on September 9, 2007
To imply that they are coerced against their will is bit much don't you think, j-urb?
Furthermore, the vast majority of men that I know would happily, gleefully sign up to play pro sports if they had the athletic ability.
posted by oddman at 5:07 PM on September 9, 2007
Furthermore, the vast majority of men that I know would happily, gleefully sign up to play pro sports if they had the athletic ability.
posted by oddman at 5:07 PM on September 9, 2007
I'd like to say thanks for posting this as well before the inevitable "football sucks! get a real job, jocks!" posts start flooding in.
posted by proj at 5:15 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by proj at 5:15 PM on September 9, 2007
What a great story. I've never played football, but I feel for the guy. I hope he can continue writing about football, because I think he probably could bring an interesting, and humanistic, perspective to a violent sport.
I'm glad he got the chance to play, and also glad that he had the foresight to realize that it would end someday. I think he'll probably be all right.
posted by Shohn at 5:22 PM on September 9, 2007
I'm glad he got the chance to play, and also glad that he had the foresight to realize that it would end someday. I think he'll probably be all right.
posted by Shohn at 5:22 PM on September 9, 2007
This was actually really good to read. I didn't expect it. Hm.
I played football in high school. I never really got that "pure primal feeling", maybe that's why it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I guess it clicks for some people.
posted by blacklite at 5:24 PM on September 9, 2007
I played football in high school. I never really got that "pure primal feeling", maybe that's why it wasn't that big of a deal to me. I guess it clicks for some people.
posted by blacklite at 5:24 PM on September 9, 2007
Alls I know about the football is gleaned from Friday Night Lights and North Dallas Forty, but I really enjoyed the article, thanks!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:29 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:29 PM on September 9, 2007
5 comments before the dumbass "football is just like dog-fighting" comment. Good work, j-urb!
posted by puke & cry at 5:31 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by puke & cry at 5:31 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Football sucks! Get a real job, jocks!
Thank you! Don't forget to tip your waitresses! Good night!
posted by ZachsMind at 5:40 PM on September 9, 2007
Thank you! Don't forget to tip your waitresses! Good night!
posted by ZachsMind at 5:40 PM on September 9, 2007
Oh. And the article reads like a particularly bad Reader's Digest piece.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:41 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by ZachsMind at 5:41 PM on September 9, 2007
Oh. And the article reads like a particularly bad Reader's Digest piece.
I Am Joe's (venting) Spleen
posted by hal9k at 6:04 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I Am Joe's (venting) Spleen
posted by hal9k at 6:04 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Upon impact, it was one of the best bad feelings I have ever had. The painful stinging sensation from the pinched nerve was offset by the fact that we crushed our guy and did our job to perfection. The three or four seconds of pain were worth the small victory that had just occurred. Burgess lay on the field. He hurt worse than I did. I found out the next day that he had a shoulder injury and a concussion. I take no pride in the fact that he was hurt on the play, though one thought did cross my mind. Better him than me.
Damn, that's grim. Thanks, bijou, interesting link.
posted by mediareport at 6:12 PM on September 9, 2007
Damn, that's grim. Thanks, bijou, interesting link.
posted by mediareport at 6:12 PM on September 9, 2007
I take no pride in the fact that he was hurt on the play, though one thought did cross my mind. Better him than me.
That sums it up pretty well. It is really, really fun to hit people on the football field (everyone's playing the game and everyone knows the rules) and knocking someone down is a strong primal feeling. When I played in high school, we never tried to hurt anyone intentionally, and I remember all the players on both teams being shocked when a guy got badly injured in one of our games.
The end of that Nike commercial is an illustration of the importance of physics in football. Low man wins. They had--what?--five guys hitting the running back, but all around his shoulders. You need to hit him below his center of gravity.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:39 PM on September 9, 2007
I've seen this story linked a few other places, and each place you can see people denigrating football players and other professional sports players.
I'm not sure why this is. It's easy to say that internet nerds are just jealous of the success of these athletes, but it seems deeper than that. There seems to be the need in many, some in this thread, to question whether athletes are the mental equivalent of others.
This boggles my mind. I never played sports seriously beyond high school, but the physical AND mental efforts of collegiate and professional sports are significant, even when compared to other professional efforts. Try memorizing a playbook and being able to recall it correctly 20 seconds after being tackled.
posted by Argyle at 6:39 PM on September 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure why this is. It's easy to say that internet nerds are just jealous of the success of these athletes, but it seems deeper than that. There seems to be the need in many, some in this thread, to question whether athletes are the mental equivalent of others.
This boggles my mind. I never played sports seriously beyond high school, but the physical AND mental efforts of collegiate and professional sports are significant, even when compared to other professional efforts. Try memorizing a playbook and being able to recall it correctly 20 seconds after being tackled.
posted by Argyle at 6:39 PM on September 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
there aren't too many stupid people playing professional sports - the mental effort and knowledge base that must be memorized are quite demanding - a lot of otherwise physically talented people don't make it because they can't think well enough under pressure
and football is probably one of the most demanding sports - on offense you have to know the playbook - on defense you have to know THEIR playbook - without ever having seen it
it's equivalent to a chess game - and yes, coaches on the college and pro levels ARE playing the mental equivalent of chess
the guys you knew in high school were probably dumb - the guys who turn pro aren't
posted by pyramid termite at 6:50 PM on September 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
and football is probably one of the most demanding sports - on offense you have to know the playbook - on defense you have to know THEIR playbook - without ever having seen it
it's equivalent to a chess game - and yes, coaches on the college and pro levels ARE playing the mental equivalent of chess
the guys you knew in high school were probably dumb - the guys who turn pro aren't
posted by pyramid termite at 6:50 PM on September 9, 2007 [2 favorites]
That was a very nice post and a very interesting take on the game. I'm a huge football fan and despite the attraction to the big name boys and the glory of the big contracts, the men I respect are those players who are playing just for the game. Mr. Tucker has my respect.
Imagine any other job that asks so much, and uses you up so very young. These guys are old and done by 30-35, and have to hope they can find another career. Not to mention the extreme damage taken by their bodies.
It would almost be easier to wear a T-shirt that said "Got Cut, Not Sure, Thanks for Your Support."
And seriously, that line applies to so many things life.
posted by teleri025 at 7:01 PM on September 9, 2007
Imagine any other job that asks so much, and uses you up so very young. These guys are old and done by 30-35, and have to hope they can find another career. Not to mention the extreme damage taken by their bodies.
It would almost be easier to wear a T-shirt that said "Got Cut, Not Sure, Thanks for Your Support."
And seriously, that line applies to so many things life.
posted by teleri025 at 7:01 PM on September 9, 2007
it's equivalent to a chess game - and yes, coaches on the college and pro levels ARE playing the mental equivalent of chess
I agree, although I tend to think of it in terms of military strategy. Some of my favorite bloggers also apply game theory to decision-making in football games, which is quite interesting.
I'm glad people liked this post, and I'm thinking of putting together another one on a related subject: football and the NCAA student-athlete. It's a subject that has piqued my interest of late, and I think there's a lot to be said on both sides of the coin.
posted by bijou at 7:18 PM on September 9, 2007
I agree, although I tend to think of it in terms of military strategy. Some of my favorite bloggers also apply game theory to decision-making in football games, which is quite interesting.
I'm glad people liked this post, and I'm thinking of putting together another one on a related subject: football and the NCAA student-athlete. It's a subject that has piqued my interest of late, and I think there's a lot to be said on both sides of the coin.
posted by bijou at 7:18 PM on September 9, 2007
There seems to be the need in many, some in this thread, to question whether athletes are the mental equivalent of others.
Well this geek, for one, has no doubt that they have brains and drive, and can do things that I can't possibly do.
The problem is that they get paid millions of dollars to push a funny-shaped piece of leather around a large flat area. It strikes me a a horrific waste on many levels.
I understand people need to be entertained, I just think it's a sad commentary on the human species that a bunch of guys pounding each other across the pitch get paid many orders of magnitude more than the guys who, say, made the broadcast of the event possible, or figured out how to grow enough food to feed all those mouths so they can watch the game on Sunday.
I'd argue that Carl Sagan, one of the best presenters of science in the last century, was significantly less well known than most of the A-ranked athletes of his time, and completely dwarfed by the likes of Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Sagan helped improve the world, presenting countless truths of science in a lucid and entertaining way: Montana threw footballs. There's something deeply messed up there.
To paraphrase the bumper sticker, wouldn't it be nice if scientists got all the money they needed, and athletes had to hold a bake sale to fund an away game?
posted by Malor at 7:22 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Well this geek, for one, has no doubt that they have brains and drive, and can do things that I can't possibly do.
The problem is that they get paid millions of dollars to push a funny-shaped piece of leather around a large flat area. It strikes me a a horrific waste on many levels.
I understand people need to be entertained, I just think it's a sad commentary on the human species that a bunch of guys pounding each other across the pitch get paid many orders of magnitude more than the guys who, say, made the broadcast of the event possible, or figured out how to grow enough food to feed all those mouths so they can watch the game on Sunday.
I'd argue that Carl Sagan, one of the best presenters of science in the last century, was significantly less well known than most of the A-ranked athletes of his time, and completely dwarfed by the likes of Joe Montana and Jerry Rice. Sagan helped improve the world, presenting countless truths of science in a lucid and entertaining way: Montana threw footballs. There's something deeply messed up there.
To paraphrase the bumper sticker, wouldn't it be nice if scientists got all the money they needed, and athletes had to hold a bake sale to fund an away game?
posted by Malor at 7:22 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm not a big fan of football; in fact, I don't think I've ever watched a complete game. But I did really enjoy listening to The Rookie, a free podcast novel about football, set in the future with space aliens and mobsters. The author says "It's "Any Given Sunday" meets "The Godfather" meets "Star Wars."
It's really good, and it's gotten me out of my complete ignorance of football. In the story, the weekly stats between each game list wins, losses, and deaths on the field. Basically, Sigler took the actual situation of people shortening their lives on the football field and exaggerated it by one step.
It amazes me that people are willing to make that kind of sacrifice of their bodies. Not everyone gets paid the dump trucks full of cash, and I don't understand why you would hurt yourself that much for a game.
And, to be honest, I don't understand the obsession of the fans either. They have a deep emotional attachment to a group of a couple dozen well-paid strangers. Unless you have money riding on the game, or you know one of the people on the team personally, why would you choose to passionately follow one team or another?
I'm not trying to say football sucks or anything. If you enjoy it, that's great, have fun. I just have trouble understanding your motivations. What do you football fans see in this?
posted by JDHarper at 7:28 PM on September 9, 2007
It's really good, and it's gotten me out of my complete ignorance of football. In the story, the weekly stats between each game list wins, losses, and deaths on the field. Basically, Sigler took the actual situation of people shortening their lives on the football field and exaggerated it by one step.
It amazes me that people are willing to make that kind of sacrifice of their bodies. Not everyone gets paid the dump trucks full of cash, and I don't understand why you would hurt yourself that much for a game.
And, to be honest, I don't understand the obsession of the fans either. They have a deep emotional attachment to a group of a couple dozen well-paid strangers. Unless you have money riding on the game, or you know one of the people on the team personally, why would you choose to passionately follow one team or another?
I'm not trying to say football sucks or anything. If you enjoy it, that's great, have fun. I just have trouble understanding your motivations. What do you football fans see in this?
posted by JDHarper at 7:28 PM on September 9, 2007
wouldn't it be nice if scientists got all the money they needed, and athletes had to hold a bake sale to fund an away game?
The analogy doesn't apply, considering that professional sports is essentially a private enterprise. Ticket sales, memorabilia and licensing (among other things) are the bake sale.
posted by dhammond at 7:35 PM on September 9, 2007
The analogy doesn't apply, considering that professional sports is essentially a private enterprise. Ticket sales, memorabilia and licensing (among other things) are the bake sale.
posted by dhammond at 7:35 PM on September 9, 2007
Maybe if scientists wore protective gear and beat the ever lovin' crap outta each other in front of cameras whenever they're discussing Quantum Physics, they could get more funding. Oh, and don't forget the cheerleaders. Scientists need to invest in some major T&A so they can compete with mindless jocks fighting over pigskins for corporate owned territory.
The only people who win in football are the people who convinced you to buy those box seats, or the people who convinced you that twenty bucks for some beer and a couple nachos was a deal. Or the people who convinced you that not liking violent, stupid sports is unamerican.
As for Ross Tucker, he got off lucky. This guy is a shill for brick. That's gotta be a fate worse than death.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:39 PM on September 9, 2007
The only people who win in football are the people who convinced you to buy those box seats, or the people who convinced you that twenty bucks for some beer and a couple nachos was a deal. Or the people who convinced you that not liking violent, stupid sports is unamerican.
As for Ross Tucker, he got off lucky. This guy is a shill for brick. That's gotta be a fate worse than death.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:39 PM on September 9, 2007
"I'm not trying to say football sucks or anything."
I'll say it.
Football sucks.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:41 PM on September 9, 2007
I'll say it.
Football sucks.
posted by ZachsMind at 7:41 PM on September 9, 2007
I will really miss the violence. It is just an amazing and pure primal feeling that you really don't understand if you have never had the chance to do it,
Yeah, that's what I miss about swimming....
posted by Floydd at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2007
Yeah, that's what I miss about swimming....
posted by Floydd at 7:55 PM on September 9, 2007
Football sucks.
Your intriguing thesis has convinced me.
THREADCRAPPING 7 - FOOTBALL 0
posted by dhammond at 8:00 PM on September 9, 2007
Your intriguing thesis has convinced me.
THREADCRAPPING 7 - FOOTBALL 0
posted by dhammond at 8:00 PM on September 9, 2007
To A Jockstrap, Post-
Vasect'my: "Got Cut, Not Sure,
Thanks for Your Support."
posted by casarkos at 8:01 PM on September 9, 2007
Vasect'my: "Got Cut, Not Sure,
Thanks for Your Support."
posted by casarkos at 8:01 PM on September 9, 2007
The problem is that they get paid millions of dollars to push a funny-shaped piece of leather around a large flat area.
yeah, it's not like nerds make any money
posted by pyramid termite at 8:01 PM on September 9, 2007
yeah, it's not like nerds make any money
posted by pyramid termite at 8:01 PM on September 9, 2007
This guy is a shill for brick. That's gotta be a fate worse than death.
"That guy" also gets paid a good deal of money to watch football games and talk about them on TV. I doubt he feels he has much to complain about.
The only people who win in football are the people who convinced you to buy those box seats, or the people who convinced you that twenty bucks for some beer and a couple nachos was a deal. Or the people who convinced you that not liking violent, stupid sports is unamerican.
No one has ever tried to convince me of any of that. For one thing, I'm a woman, hardly the target audience for the sport, and for another thing, I like it of my own damn accord, thanks.
What do you football fans see in this?
I think you're asking that question of all sports fans, not just football fans. The emotional attachment is relatively arbitrary (a town, a school) but gives people something to latch on to. There is something almost medieval in cheering your side on as they go into battle, literal or metaphorical.
What do I see in football itself? A sport rich with strategy, a form of organized chaos. I see an elegance in the pass, the catch, the series of increasingly unlikely outcomes. ("THE LATERAL!")
posted by bijou at 8:07 PM on September 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
"That guy" also gets paid a good deal of money to watch football games and talk about them on TV. I doubt he feels he has much to complain about.
The only people who win in football are the people who convinced you to buy those box seats, or the people who convinced you that twenty bucks for some beer and a couple nachos was a deal. Or the people who convinced you that not liking violent, stupid sports is unamerican.
No one has ever tried to convince me of any of that. For one thing, I'm a woman, hardly the target audience for the sport, and for another thing, I like it of my own damn accord, thanks.
What do you football fans see in this?
I think you're asking that question of all sports fans, not just football fans. The emotional attachment is relatively arbitrary (a town, a school) but gives people something to latch on to. There is something almost medieval in cheering your side on as they go into battle, literal or metaphorical.
What do I see in football itself? A sport rich with strategy, a form of organized chaos. I see an elegance in the pass, the catch, the series of increasingly unlikely outcomes. ("THE LATERAL!")
posted by bijou at 8:07 PM on September 9, 2007 [3 favorites]
I'm not trying to say football sucks or anything. If you enjoy it, that's great, have fun. I just have trouble understanding your motivations. What do you football fans see in this?
It's all about 'belonging' ... Sitting in the stadium, or in front of the TV, and cheering together with a zillion other people 'like you'. We obviously have a need to belong to groups. And I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to include what we are doing right now - a self-sorted group of people, sitting at our computer monitors, 'sharing' the experience of having these discussions - as the same thing ... 'belonging somewhere'.
posted by woodblock100 at 8:08 PM on September 9, 2007
It's all about 'belonging' ... Sitting in the stadium, or in front of the TV, and cheering together with a zillion other people 'like you'. We obviously have a need to belong to groups. And I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to include what we are doing right now - a self-sorted group of people, sitting at our computer monitors, 'sharing' the experience of having these discussions - as the same thing ... 'belonging somewhere'.
posted by woodblock100 at 8:08 PM on September 9, 2007
Fair enough. Primeval didn't seem like the right word, and I was thinking along the lines of jousting and such. Got a better one?
posted by bijou at 8:10 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by bijou at 8:10 PM on September 9, 2007
So what? Intellectuals can't like football? I've got to be a mindless, genetic throwback to enjoy sports? Well, I'm getting a PhD in philosophy, and the second I graduate I'm getting alumni season tickets. I love my Gators.
I bleed orange and blue, and my dissertation is on the ontology of minds in the philosophy of Descartes and Locke.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
posted by oddman at 8:32 PM on September 9, 2007
I bleed orange and blue, and my dissertation is on the ontology of minds in the philosophy of Descartes and Locke.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
posted by oddman at 8:32 PM on September 9, 2007
Word up, oddman. And Go Irish, though this is sure gonna be a tough year.
posted by Roach at 8:34 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by Roach at 8:34 PM on September 9, 2007
The problem is that they get paid millions of dollars to push a funny-shaped piece of leather around a large flat area.
For some of them, sure. I'll guess this guy was a lot closer to league-minimum, which starts at $285k for the first year, and graduates to just under $600k for years 4 through 6 - Now that's a lot of money to me, though certainly in line with, say some Wall Street careers, but there are vast numbers of "professional" athletes who are far closer to you and I in salary than the until-recently $13 million-a-year Mr. Vick.
And imagine if your corporate gig was marked by a large chance of serious, potentially crippling injury and an average duration of 3 to 4 years. Puts that minimum in a bit of perspective.
And at least the pay is (broadly speaking) pegged to performance. If these guys can't cut it, they're gone. I'm not even much of football fan, but I'm far more dismayed and disgusted at dipsh*ts like Robert Nardelli, crapping the bed at Home Depot just to fall up into the CEO post at Chrysler(?!). There's your outrage my friend, not some schlub playing left tackle and working on his fourth concussion and a couple of permanently-fused vertabrae.
posted by jalexei at 8:42 PM on September 9, 2007
For some of them, sure. I'll guess this guy was a lot closer to league-minimum, which starts at $285k for the first year, and graduates to just under $600k for years 4 through 6 - Now that's a lot of money to me, though certainly in line with, say some Wall Street careers, but there are vast numbers of "professional" athletes who are far closer to you and I in salary than the until-recently $13 million-a-year Mr. Vick.
And imagine if your corporate gig was marked by a large chance of serious, potentially crippling injury and an average duration of 3 to 4 years. Puts that minimum in a bit of perspective.
And at least the pay is (broadly speaking) pegged to performance. If these guys can't cut it, they're gone. I'm not even much of football fan, but I'm far more dismayed and disgusted at dipsh*ts like Robert Nardelli, crapping the bed at Home Depot just to fall up into the CEO post at Chrysler(?!). There's your outrage my friend, not some schlub playing left tackle and working on his fourth concussion and a couple of permanently-fused vertabrae.
posted by jalexei at 8:42 PM on September 9, 2007
Rough year? I'm a Michigan fan. Don't talk to me about rough years.
posted by bijou at 8:43 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by bijou at 8:43 PM on September 9, 2007
Sagan helped improve the world, presenting countless truths of science in a lucid and entertaining way: Montana threw footballs. There's something deeply messed up there.
Montana threw footballs. Pavarotti sang tunes. Picasso doodled.
posted by stargell at 8:46 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Montana threw footballs. Pavarotti sang tunes. Picasso doodled.
posted by stargell at 8:46 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
but chuck norris kicked ASS
posted by pyramid termite at 8:47 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by pyramid termite at 8:47 PM on September 9, 2007
Montana threw footballs. Pavarotti sang tunes. Picasso doodled.
Barry Sanders danced.
posted by Roach at 8:59 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Barry Sanders danced.
posted by Roach at 8:59 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
It amazes me that people are willing to make that kind of sacrifice of their bodies. Not everyone gets paid the dump trucks full of cash, and I don't understand why you would hurt yourself that much for a game.
Look at roofers or people who do floors. Their backs and knees don't last forever, and they're not even making much.
posted by craniac at 9:16 PM on September 9, 2007
Look at roofers or people who do floors. Their backs and knees don't last forever, and they're not even making much.
posted by craniac at 9:16 PM on September 9, 2007
If these guys can't cut it, they're gone. I'm not even much of football fan, but I'm far more dismayed and disgusted at dipsh*ts like Robert Nardelli, crapping the bed at Home Depot just to fall up into the CEO post at Chrysler(?!).
This is correct: "Glamor" CEOs are the true poster children for salaries and perks wildly out of line with what they actually do.
posted by maxwelton at 9:28 PM on September 9, 2007
This is correct: "Glamor" CEOs are the true poster children for salaries and perks wildly out of line with what they actually do.
posted by maxwelton at 9:28 PM on September 9, 2007
Look at roofers or people who do floors.
Apples and oranges, sir.
no that would be apples and strawberries - and if you add in foundation builders or well diggers than it would be apples and strawberries and potatos
Rough year? I'm a Michigan fan.
at the rate they're going, they'd have trouble with caltech
posted by pyramid termite at 9:31 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Apples and oranges, sir.
no that would be apples and strawberries - and if you add in foundation builders or well diggers than it would be apples and strawberries and potatos
Rough year? I'm a Michigan fan.
at the rate they're going, they'd have trouble with caltech
posted by pyramid termite at 9:31 PM on September 9, 2007 [1 favorite]
Great post, bijou. Oh: are you a tenor, baritone or bass? There's still plenty of openings in the virtual practice room I've created for the ever-growing chorus of folks singing, "Fire Lloyd Carr..."
[/end college football rant]
posted by t2urner at 9:32 PM on September 9, 2007
[/end college football rant]
posted by t2urner at 9:32 PM on September 9, 2007
nice post Bijou
posted by HappyHippo at 9:38 PM on September 9, 2007
posted by HappyHippo at 9:38 PM on September 9, 2007
And, to be honest, I don't understand the obsession of the fans either. They have a deep emotional attachment to a group of a couple dozen well-paid strangers. Unless you have money riding on the game, or you know one of the people on the team personally, why would you choose to passionately follow one team or another?
I'll bite. I'm a Saints fan. I only went to one game - the 2003 shellacking by the Colts - but I've spent plenty of time in bars talking shit about the team, so they're mine. And doubly so now. I know I'm never moving back there. It makes me sick, because I'm still so in love with the city, but I'm not moving back there. But most of my friends are there. Most of the people I identify with - those who I want to be like - are there. I have no connection with them. I left town after Katrina. It was the right decision. But my weakness in not being able to go back, in not believing in my ability to live there, it makes me sick. At this point, all I have in common with those still there are the Saints. It's my only connection.
The Saints, for better or worse, embody the soul of the town I left behind, the town I still dearly love. There's no reason for it, but it's true. Music doesn't do it. I learned to drink there, but alcohol doesn't do it. Culture? Culture is filtered through the team, once by eloquent and incomprehensible outbursts from Buddy D, now by whatever the media gives me.
It's a simple arithmetic. The Saints are New Orleans. I love New Orleans. Therefore, I love the Saints.
The hell of it is, people understand. Apparently, I'm not the only one like this. The other day, in a sports bar, watching the next shellacking by the hand of the Colts, the waitress brings the tab. I've had three beers but the receipt only shows one. The waitress says her husband once lived in New Orleans. She said that she understood. She said her husband had probably been screaming at the TV screen for three straight hours just like I had. I paid for one beer only. A hell of a thing.
Once, during the 2005 season, in some godforsaken Tulsa sports bar, someone walked up and hugged me, just because I was cursing the Saints O-line for not blocking Atlanta's pass rush. That's it. She hugged me and said sorry and walked off.
Silly, isn't it?
And that's what it's been everywhere. A connection here, a connection there. Random. Fleeting. These connections don't last. But they're real, for the moment they're in. All centered around a group of 53 men who like hitting each other. Silly.
I figure I'm not alone. I'm sure there are Arsenal fans who get treated like gods in select bars in all cities. Boca Junior fans who anchor their barstools with the weight of hard-earned knowledge about the next savior of football. Montreal Canadien fans who amaze a crowd talking about any number of overtime goals (and ignoring the McSorley stick ruling) during the '93 season. It's an odd community, sports fans. But it's a real community.
I dont' know what else I can say here and I've gone on too long but there you have it. This is why I'm a Saints fan. It's foolish but there you have it.
posted by suckerpunch at 10:25 PM on September 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
I'll bite. I'm a Saints fan. I only went to one game - the 2003 shellacking by the Colts - but I've spent plenty of time in bars talking shit about the team, so they're mine. And doubly so now. I know I'm never moving back there. It makes me sick, because I'm still so in love with the city, but I'm not moving back there. But most of my friends are there. Most of the people I identify with - those who I want to be like - are there. I have no connection with them. I left town after Katrina. It was the right decision. But my weakness in not being able to go back, in not believing in my ability to live there, it makes me sick. At this point, all I have in common with those still there are the Saints. It's my only connection.
The Saints, for better or worse, embody the soul of the town I left behind, the town I still dearly love. There's no reason for it, but it's true. Music doesn't do it. I learned to drink there, but alcohol doesn't do it. Culture? Culture is filtered through the team, once by eloquent and incomprehensible outbursts from Buddy D, now by whatever the media gives me.
It's a simple arithmetic. The Saints are New Orleans. I love New Orleans. Therefore, I love the Saints.
The hell of it is, people understand. Apparently, I'm not the only one like this. The other day, in a sports bar, watching the next shellacking by the hand of the Colts, the waitress brings the tab. I've had three beers but the receipt only shows one. The waitress says her husband once lived in New Orleans. She said that she understood. She said her husband had probably been screaming at the TV screen for three straight hours just like I had. I paid for one beer only. A hell of a thing.
Once, during the 2005 season, in some godforsaken Tulsa sports bar, someone walked up and hugged me, just because I was cursing the Saints O-line for not blocking Atlanta's pass rush. That's it. She hugged me and said sorry and walked off.
Silly, isn't it?
And that's what it's been everywhere. A connection here, a connection there. Random. Fleeting. These connections don't last. But they're real, for the moment they're in. All centered around a group of 53 men who like hitting each other. Silly.
I figure I'm not alone. I'm sure there are Arsenal fans who get treated like gods in select bars in all cities. Boca Junior fans who anchor their barstools with the weight of hard-earned knowledge about the next savior of football. Montreal Canadien fans who amaze a crowd talking about any number of overtime goals (and ignoring the McSorley stick ruling) during the '93 season. It's an odd community, sports fans. But it's a real community.
I dont' know what else I can say here and I've gone on too long but there you have it. This is why I'm a Saints fan. It's foolish but there you have it.
posted by suckerpunch at 10:25 PM on September 9, 2007 [4 favorites]
Oh: are you a tenor, baritone or bass? There's still plenty of openings in the virtual practice room I've created for the ever-growing chorus of folks singing, "Fire Lloyd Carr..."
After the ASU game, my brother and I were debating whether they could rally and beat Oregon. Clearly they couldn't, and we agreed that the best alternative, if they couldn't squeeze out an 11-1 season, would be to let the rest of the games go - but study the Ohio State playbook, watch OSU videos every single week, train for that one single game, and completely kill the Buckeyes in week 12. Because really, there aren't a lot of things better than subjecting Ohio State to a loss against an 0-11 team.
Yeah, I realize they couldn't pull it off, but man that would be funny.
posted by rkent at 10:28 PM on September 9, 2007
After the ASU game, my brother and I were debating whether they could rally and beat Oregon. Clearly they couldn't, and we agreed that the best alternative, if they couldn't squeeze out an 11-1 season, would be to let the rest of the games go - but study the Ohio State playbook, watch OSU videos every single week, train for that one single game, and completely kill the Buckeyes in week 12. Because really, there aren't a lot of things better than subjecting Ohio State to a loss against an 0-11 team.
Yeah, I realize they couldn't pull it off, but man that would be funny.
posted by rkent at 10:28 PM on September 9, 2007
I'm a soprano, actually.
Also, rkent, I think they stand an infinitesimal chance at beating EMUs one and two (Jimmy Clausen and Eastern Mich).
I wouldn't be a Michigan fan if I didn't like pain and suffering, though, right? Right?
Oh, and to the person above who wondered what it is, exactly, about football/sports: every year we get a fresh start, a clean slate. Or as the damned say, "There's always next year."
posted by bijou at 10:36 PM on September 9, 2007
Also, rkent, I think they stand an infinitesimal chance at beating EMUs one and two (Jimmy Clausen and Eastern Mich).
I wouldn't be a Michigan fan if I didn't like pain and suffering, though, right? Right?
Oh, and to the person above who wondered what it is, exactly, about football/sports: every year we get a fresh start, a clean slate. Or as the damned say, "There's always next year."
posted by bijou at 10:36 PM on September 9, 2007
I wouldn't be a Michigan fan if I didn't like pain and suffering, though, right? Right?
Don't look at me, I like the Buffalo Bills
*shoots self in head*
posted by dhammond at 11:05 PM on September 9, 2007
Don't look at me, I like the Buffalo Bills
*shoots self in head*
posted by dhammond at 11:05 PM on September 9, 2007
Hey, at least the Bills have made it to the Super Bowl.
Consider that there are people who are both Detroit Lions and Michigan Wolverines fans.
posted by bijou at 11:09 PM on September 9, 2007
Consider that there are people who are both Detroit Lions and Michigan Wolverines fans.
posted by bijou at 11:09 PM on September 9, 2007
why would you choose to passionately follow one team or another?
Because you go to a local ground and want your guys to do well, and then you get caught up in their successes and failures. That's a common one (me).
Because you get taken by a parent or relative and love the experience (my son and daughter).
Plus about a million other reasons.
Also, while we're on the topic: "Seagulls!"
posted by athenian at 11:33 PM on September 9, 2007
Because you go to a local ground and want your guys to do well, and then you get caught up in their successes and failures. That's a common one (me).
Because you get taken by a parent or relative and love the experience (my son and daughter).
Plus about a million other reasons.
Also, while we're on the topic: "Seagulls!"
posted by athenian at 11:33 PM on September 9, 2007
"... My mom will probably hate reading this, but more than the paycheck or the camaraderie of the locker room, I will really miss the violence. ..."
34 falls after I played my last full contact game, I still know exactly what he means. Every fall since, I miss the taste of sweat and the smell of cut grass and dirt, and the sound of making another man grunt out breath and stink by sticking my shoulder in his bread basket, at full tilt. Or crushing another straining man to the ground, against his will, because it is my will, or, at least, my coaches' will. I miss the excitement and the fear, the metallic taste of blood, the hunted look an opponent you've physically beaten badly in the first quarter gets by half time. I miss feeling bigger than I am, when wearing shoulder pads. I miss tape and liniment, and steamy showers and stinky locker rooms.
I do anything to play one more game, in a body that still could...
posted by paulsc at 12:01 AM on September 10, 2007 [3 favorites]
34 falls after I played my last full contact game, I still know exactly what he means. Every fall since, I miss the taste of sweat and the smell of cut grass and dirt, and the sound of making another man grunt out breath and stink by sticking my shoulder in his bread basket, at full tilt. Or crushing another straining man to the ground, against his will, because it is my will, or, at least, my coaches' will. I miss the excitement and the fear, the metallic taste of blood, the hunted look an opponent you've physically beaten badly in the first quarter gets by half time. I miss feeling bigger than I am, when wearing shoulder pads. I miss tape and liniment, and steamy showers and stinky locker rooms.
I do anything to play one more game, in a body that still could...
posted by paulsc at 12:01 AM on September 10, 2007 [3 favorites]
Your favourite national pasttime sucks.
posted by bicyclefish at 12:35 AM on September 10, 2007
posted by bicyclefish at 12:35 AM on September 10, 2007
I'm a Michigan fan. Don't talk to me about rough years.
oh, you poor thing! i would almost feel sorry for you, except that i've never had such delicious schadenfreude and i refuse to sully it with pity!
go bucks.
posted by Hat Maui at 1:14 AM on September 10, 2007
oh, you poor thing! i would almost feel sorry for you, except that i've never had such delicious schadenfreude and i refuse to sully it with pity!
go bucks.
posted by Hat Maui at 1:14 AM on September 10, 2007
Malor, I'm not a fan of football, but I think their salaries are completely in line with the effort it takes.
For one thing, remember that pro-football is the peak of a pyramid, and there are a lot of college athletes who never make it despite years of effort, injuries, and in some cases parents financing their aborted football careers.
For another thing the injuries, represented by linemen losing twenty-five years off their life expectancy.
Whereas I'm guessing your average scientist makes a decent living, and the world class ones make six figure salaries over a much longer career.
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:47 AM on September 10, 2007
For one thing, remember that pro-football is the peak of a pyramid, and there are a lot of college athletes who never make it despite years of effort, injuries, and in some cases parents financing their aborted football careers.
For another thing the injuries, represented by linemen losing twenty-five years off their life expectancy.
Whereas I'm guessing your average scientist makes a decent living, and the world class ones make six figure salaries over a much longer career.
posted by BrotherCaine at 5:47 AM on September 10, 2007
The tone of the piece is rather mawkish, but I'm sure a lot of former pro athletes would feel he'd hit the nail on the head.
posted by orange swan at 5:53 AM on September 10, 2007
posted by orange swan at 5:53 AM on September 10, 2007
I'm a Michigan fan. Don't talk to me about rough years.
Heh. I'm an MSU student, commuting from my home in Ann Arbor. From my viewpoint, U-M needs about 10 years of years like this and maybe the stench of arrogance will begin to fade. But I doubt it.
posted by beelzbubba at 5:54 AM on September 10, 2007
Heh. I'm an MSU student, commuting from my home in Ann Arbor. From my viewpoint, U-M needs about 10 years of years like this and maybe the stench of arrogance will begin to fade. But I doubt it.
posted by beelzbubba at 5:54 AM on September 10, 2007
I'm not sure why this is. It's easy to say that internet nerds are just jealous of the success of these athletes, but it seems deeper than that. There seems to be the need in many, some in this thread, to question whether athletes are the mental equivalent of others.
It is deeper than that, so much so, Nietzsche came up with a term for it: Ressentiment.
The mere mention of sport will bring out scores of people who cannot understand the sport beyond "big guys running into one another", are terribly deficient in the physical, mental, or ambition department, got picked on in highschool, do not enjoy sports, or do not understand how the physical advancement of humans is just as important as the mental, or are just plain angry that people get paid more than they do.
To even try out for a pro football team, you have to have speed, strength, agility, and reaction time above and beyond the average person, plus an understanding of tactics and real-time application thereof, and so much more.
Whenever people rail on about "dumb jocks" and the like, I'm reminded of the old adage "Anyone who hates you wants to be you".
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:04 AM on September 10, 2007
It is deeper than that, so much so, Nietzsche came up with a term for it: Ressentiment.
The mere mention of sport will bring out scores of people who cannot understand the sport beyond "big guys running into one another", are terribly deficient in the physical, mental, or ambition department, got picked on in highschool, do not enjoy sports, or do not understand how the physical advancement of humans is just as important as the mental, or are just plain angry that people get paid more than they do.
To even try out for a pro football team, you have to have speed, strength, agility, and reaction time above and beyond the average person, plus an understanding of tactics and real-time application thereof, and so much more.
Whenever people rail on about "dumb jocks" and the like, I'm reminded of the old adage "Anyone who hates you wants to be you".
posted by Uther Bentrazor at 6:04 AM on September 10, 2007
What hurts me so deeply is to watch the semi-professional athletes at the college level. Pro-careers are few, short, and leave one with expensive injuries. Meanwhile, I'm grading papers by kids who actively piss away the chance at an education that others would kill for. Many of these papers look to have authors who shouldn't have graduated, but that doesn't mean that with effort and dedication (which people are supposed to learn in sport, right?) they couldn't catch up. Hell, you don't have to be Einstein to do well in commerce/business undergrad and have a good career ahead of you. Instead here they are in Phys 109 as fourth and fifth years confused about what "rotation" is, how the solar system is arranged, and solving equations of one variable.
Someone from the Dean's office should be legally required to tell them that their coach is full of lies, that odds are 1000:1 they won't be the next Farve, and that sport is less important than their minds. They should do this with visits from alumni athletes who dropped out and lasted 3 years in the pros.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:06 AM on September 10, 2007
Someone from the Dean's office should be legally required to tell them that their coach is full of lies, that odds are 1000:1 they won't be the next Farve, and that sport is less important than their minds. They should do this with visits from alumni athletes who dropped out and lasted 3 years in the pros.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 7:06 AM on September 10, 2007
The reasons he gives resonate strongly with me too. Playing sports is more than just the comraderie of the team or of being active to the point of exhaustion, it's the physical challenge, the visceral competition.
There are so few places in our society where all-out physical effort is allowed (and for good reason). One has the sense of walking around on tip toes all day, worrying that a stray elbow will break crockery, or too firm a handshake will cause someone to wince. Competetive team sports are the only socially acceptible release for that purely violent physicality.
Sure, endurance sports get you pleasantly tired (I cycle and run too), and construction and ditch digging are hard work, but for dealing with agression, nothing, for me, beats a game of soccer.
posted by bonehead at 7:37 AM on September 10, 2007
There are so few places in our society where all-out physical effort is allowed (and for good reason). One has the sense of walking around on tip toes all day, worrying that a stray elbow will break crockery, or too firm a handshake will cause someone to wince. Competetive team sports are the only socially acceptible release for that purely violent physicality.
Sure, endurance sports get you pleasantly tired (I cycle and run too), and construction and ditch digging are hard work, but for dealing with agression, nothing, for me, beats a game of soccer.
posted by bonehead at 7:37 AM on September 10, 2007
paulsc, I only ever played in High School, and I don't miss it at all, but you dug up some powerful memories. There was something primal about facing the other man across the line, and knowing that you were going to dominate him completely. I think I can understand why you'd be willing to give up so much, literally years off your life to feel that.
I don't miss it, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't pleasure in it.
posted by Eddie Mars at 8:58 AM on September 10, 2007
I don't miss it, but I'd be lying if I said there wasn't pleasure in it.
posted by Eddie Mars at 8:58 AM on September 10, 2007
...posted by eritain at 9:23 AM on September 10, 2007
I knew him at once, despite his pathetic clothes;
Something in his stance, or his sturdy frame
Perhaps. I could even remember his name
Before I saw it on his blind-man's tray. Billy Rose.
And twenty forgetful years fell away at the sight.
Bare-kneed, dismayed, memory fled to the hub
Of Saturday violence, with friends to the Labour Club,
Watching the boxing on a sawdust summer night.
...
Hey Roach, honest questions, are you guys upset about losing out on Urban and settling for Weiss instead? Early last year it looked like that hiring would work out pretty well for you. So I wonder what the fans think now.
posted by oddman at 9:27 AM on September 10, 2007
posted by oddman at 9:27 AM on September 10, 2007
Late followup, but to answer your question, I think most people are still behind Weis. There is alot of resentment against Urban because he was a part of the "inner circle", and turned down the job to go to hated Florida.
Weis one more games in his first two years than any previous ND coach. He's only just now beginning to play his own recruits, who are obviously very young. Nobody who follows the team seriously expected to finish this season any better than 7-4, and even that is a stretch.
People are more frustrated with the ineptitude of the O-line than anything, because it trickles down into so many other aspects of the game.
We're all pretty excited that he decided on Clausen to start this weekend, and despite poor O-line play, Clausen looked poised and confident.
True Domers won't start calling for Weis' head unless he totally blows it next year.
posted by Roach at 11:42 AM on September 10, 2007
Weis one more games in his first two years than any previous ND coach. He's only just now beginning to play his own recruits, who are obviously very young. Nobody who follows the team seriously expected to finish this season any better than 7-4, and even that is a stretch.
People are more frustrated with the ineptitude of the O-line than anything, because it trickles down into so many other aspects of the game.
We're all pretty excited that he decided on Clausen to start this weekend, and despite poor O-line play, Clausen looked poised and confident.
True Domers won't start calling for Weis' head unless he totally blows it next year.
posted by Roach at 11:42 AM on September 10, 2007
...do not understand how the physical advancement of humans is just as important as the mental
I'll never forget the day Jonas Salk took polio TO THE MAT!
posted by 235w103 at 8:24 PM on September 10, 2007
I'll never forget the day Jonas Salk took polio TO THE MAT!
posted by 235w103 at 8:24 PM on September 10, 2007
Burhanistan: Awesome. I wish I'd said that first.
Roach: Find a new Internets. =P
posted by ZachsMind at 7:59 PM on September 13, 2007
Roach: Find a new Internets. =P
posted by ZachsMind at 7:59 PM on September 13, 2007
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
And when he says "My mom will probably hate reading this, but more than the paycheck or the camaraderie of the locker room, I will really miss the violence. It is just an amazing and pure primal feeling that you really don't understand if you have never had the chance to do it," it reminded me of the dazzling new Nike commercial that just came out, set to the theme from Last of the Mohicans.
Not a Nike shill. That thing just sends chills up and down my spine.
posted by bijou at 4:00 PM on September 9, 2007