Avoiding Kids: How Men Cope With Being Cast as Predators

September 13, 2007 10:40 AM

Avoiding Kids: How Men Cope With Being Cast as Predators These days, if Rian Romoli accidentally bumps into a child, he quickly raises his hands above his shoulders. "I don't want to give even the slightest indication that any inadvertent touching occurred," says Mr. Romoli, an economist in La Cañada Flintridge, Calif. Previous article by same author.
posted by agregoli (247 comments total)

So is he creepy looking or something?
posted by Artw at 10:43 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

How often does this guy accidentally bump into children?
posted by item at 10:45 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Kids are usually the ones bumping into adults, in my experience.
posted by agregoli at 10:47 AM on September 13, 2007

Interesting. Sometimes when I'm out, a little kid may look at me and wave or something, and I always wave back. More than a few times has the child's mom given me a look like, "Stay away from my baby, you perv." And I don't think I'm particularly Brian Peppers-ish.

item: Anytime you go anywhere in public where there are kids about, you're likely to bump into one. They are always running about in the mall or in stores or such, and they rarely pay attention to where they are going.
posted by papakwanz at 10:47 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

The Virginia health department ad shown in the second article is pretty messed up.
posted by brain_drain at 10:48 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Another good way: Bring your own child with you. As bait.
posted by DU at 10:50 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Also, this closes an interesting trilogy of posts: Marry Our Daughter -- Fight Your Baby -- Don't Touch Their Kids
posted by brain_drain at 10:51 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

I can certainly sympathize. Back when my own daughter was little...say, 7 or 8 years old...I would occasionally have to take her with me to the supermarket in the middle of the day. I quickly became aware of the quite suspicious stares I was getting from the moms in the store.
This older man with a small girl...obviously up to no good.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:52 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

The Virginia health department ad shown in the second article is pretty messed up.

So it is wrong to hold hands with your child now? WTF?
posted by Mr_Zero at 10:52 AM on September 13, 2007

Are you sure they weren't just staring at her mighty hammer Mjolnir, Thorzdad?
posted by fleetmouse at 10:57 AM on September 13, 2007 [8 favorites]

next up, the war on Christmas
posted by caddis at 10:57 AM on September 13, 2007

I read this article last week, and mentioned it off-handedly to a (female) friend who works with 2- and 3-year-olds. Apparently, where she works, men are not allowed to change diapers. Why even hire men, then, if you're going to (ridiculously) forbid them from performing an essential part of their jobs? WTF, people?!
posted by uncleozzy at 10:58 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

A while back when I was at the grocery store this little girl was like staring at me. It was kind of weird, like hiding behind her grand-ma and looking at me, like she was shy or something. I smiled and waved back. This went on a while and then the grandma said high to me and pushed her granddaughter to talk to me. It was very cute.

The grandmother was Indian, and at the time I was just thinking that that sort of thing would never happen with Americans, there really does seem to be this incredible paranoia going around about child molestation, even though the risk from strangers is so minimal. It's like because there are so few real risks people fixate on the most minor ones.

I can't think it's a good thing for society at all to raise children to fear everyone they don't know. I mean, these kids grow up and I don't think the instilled fear would just go away.

The Boy Scouts of America now has elaborate rules to prevent both abuse and false accusations...

These policies can be intricate. For instance, four adult leaders are needed for each outing. If a sick child must go home, two adults drive him and two stay with the others, so no adult is ever alone with a Scout. "It's protection for the adults, as well as the children," says a Scouts spokesman.

Wow.
posted by delmoi at 10:58 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I've noticed this problem for years. I think it has more to do with the problem of most people being overly misinformed, or overinformed with misinformation or something like that. It's almost like an hysteria, and I'm caught up in it too because I really don't want to be accused of anything so disgusting. So I avoid children and their parents wherever possible. Too bad, but that's life.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 10:59 AM on September 13, 2007

"Some men are opting not to get involved with children at all"
Insha'Allah
posted by a robot made out of meat at 10:59 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

That was two years ago caddis, didn't you get the memoe?
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:00 AM on September 13, 2007

People on both sides of this argument need to get a grip.

There are sane people and there are crazy people. Some of the crazy people are going to be men, and some are going to be women. I had to take abuse from both, though mostly from a woman. But that was just one crazywoman, it wasn't "women."

Yeah, that ad is insane. But so is the guy who refuses to be in an elevator with a kid lest he be accused of abuse. Drama queen.

Everyone just needs to chill.
posted by jiiota at 11:05 AM on September 13, 2007

If sexual abuse is as prevalent and widespread as all these people believe it is, I must have been a very ugly, smelly child.
posted by tehloki at 11:05 AM on September 13, 2007 [36 favorites]

Oh, and I avoid children for a different reason altogether. It's because they give me a headache with those shrill little voices. I guess I have to admit that I have come close to smacking someone else's kid in public. Does that count as abuse? It does, right?
posted by jiiota at 11:07 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

This sexual predator myth is very silly: "The Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics found that family members, including relatives, constituted the vast majority (93%) of alleged perpetrators" (of child abuse). I've seen this kind of statistic all over the world. The US is probably not that different. Which makes matter much more complicated...
posted by lucia__is__dada at 11:08 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Be careful -- when it comes to being seen as a sexual predator, it's all too easy to give people the wrong impression. Don't let this happen to you! (Because truly there IS a Dinosaur Comics for every occasion...)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:09 AM on September 13, 2007 [7 favorites]

Also, wow: At Houston Intercontinental Airport, businessman Mitch Reifel was having a meal with his 5-year-old daughter when a policeman showed up to question him. A passerby had reported his interactions with the child seemed "suspicious."

It looks like the government doesn't need to make things any more Orwellian... we've taken up the charge ourselves.
posted by tehloki at 11:09 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Once, when my daughter was a toddler, she and I were at the mall together without my wife. My child started misbehaving, so I decided it was time to take her home. As I picked her up and started carrying her out of the mall, she started screaming "Help! Help!"

At that moment I realized that at any second I could find myself in trouble just for being a man alone with his own child.

Even though she is now school-aged and could tell a security guard or cop who she is, when we are out together in public, I make sure that I make as much eye contact as possible at anyone who gives us a second glance and say the word "Daddy" out loud.

Though it probably isn't anywhere near comparable to the scrutiny Muslims and black people must constantly endure, it is VERY unsettling to think that people might assume I am a predator just because I am a man with a child.
posted by briank at 11:11 AM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]

Is it really this bad? Parents won't let their kids trick-or-treat at a divorced man's home? I do understand that pedo-paranoia is a real problem, but is it actually this bad?
posted by arcticwoman at 11:12 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I was active in Scouting as a teen, my dad was a Scout leader for years, I work with several active Scout leaders. I have a lot of fun working with kids that age (10-14), and a fair bit of experience with the outdoors.

I am single and childless however, and have been told by people in Scouts Canada that there is no way, no how that I would ever be accepted as a Scout leader because of that. It's not like it's a great tragedy in my life or anything, but it saddens me to not be able to help kids the same way as some of the great people then helped me as a Scout.
posted by bonehead at 11:13 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

In Boy Scouts, when I was like 11, the Scoutmaster made all the kids stand around the campfire at night, pull their pants down, and piss the fire out.

I can still remember his smile as the flames' shadows flickered across his face.
posted by four panels at 11:14 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

creepy, four panels. I think I remember doing the same thing.

Wait! That means I wasn't ugly and smelly after all!
posted by tehloki at 11:18 AM on September 13, 2007

The Boy Scouts of America now has elaborate rules to prevent both abuse and false accusations...

These policies can be intricate. For instance, four adult leaders are needed for each outing. If a sick child must go home, two adults drive him and two stay with the others, so no adult is ever alone with a Scout. "It's protection for the adults, as well as the children," says a Scouts spokesman.

Wow.

An at-least-two-leaders policy has been in place since I was a Cub Scout 20 years ago. At the time, part of the explanation was that it prevented boys from being left without adult supervision if something happened to any one adult. "Four deep leadership" was, at that point, unofficial, but part of the training curriculum.

I'm a big guy myself, and I notice that some women are simply nervous to be around me. It makes me want to turn on my best gay sybillance and go "Honey, I am so not into girls."
posted by djlynch at 11:21 AM on September 13, 2007

So it is wrong to hold hands with your child now? WTF?

No, it's still okay if you're "just friends".
posted by psmealey at 11:22 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Flip this around: By creating a fear of men, isn't this enforcing the parenting role on women?
posted by elwoodwiles at 11:23 AM on September 13, 2007 [12 favorites]

Is it really this bad? Parents won't let their kids trick-or-treat at a divorced man's home? I do understand that pedo-paranoia is a real problem, but is it actually this bad?

Yes.
posted by blucevalo at 11:26 AM on September 13, 2007

Once, when my daughter was a toddler, she and I were at the mall together without my wife. My child started misbehaving, so I decided it was time to take her home. As I picked her up and started carrying her out of the mall, she started screaming "Help! Help!"

I've had the same thing happen in the mall.

I can't tell what was worse, the fact she was making me look like a pedophile child abductor, or the fact no one even cared enough to look up.
posted by dw at 11:28 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I can't tell what was worse, the fact she was making me look like a pedophile child abductor, or the fact no one even cared enough to look up.

I think that's finally a case where two wrongs made a right.
posted by psmealey at 11:29 AM on September 13, 2007 [7 favorites]

elwoodwiles: you'd better cut that out. You're going to make someone's head explode.

Since my wife and I are planning to make me the primary child care provider, I just want to add: right in the ear, this one.
posted by 1adam12 at 11:30 AM on September 13, 2007

Parents won't let their kids trick-or-treat at a divorced man's home?

To be fair, I think this is a vestige of the year I was answering the door dressed as Mark Spitz. Ever since, Halloween traffic at my house has been sparse.
posted by found missing at 11:31 AM on September 13, 2007 [6 favorites]

isn't this enforcing the parenting role on women?

This reminds me of the story about how an Australian airline won't seat a lone child next to a man. I wanted to voice my objection to this trend but in that particular case my pragmatic side won out.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:31 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Well... at least I don't feel so bad about my pyronecropedophilia now...

Wait.... Or is it that I feel worse?

I really can't tell... the flames coming off of this dead baby are really charring my wanker. Got concentration problems here.
posted by Debaser626 at 11:32 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Not only are men who like being around small children viewed with great suspicion (there are virtually no male preschool teachers, and damn few male elementary school teachers), but with the increasing prevalence of single mothers, there are a lot of small children with not much in the way of simple, playful, fun interaction with men.

At the same time, on TV, fathers have long been portrayed as dense and bumbling, while Mother Knows Best. The pendulum has certainly swung. Revealing the existence of sexual predators has of course been good, but can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater (or, in this case, the grown-up guy out with the baby)?
posted by kozad at 11:34 AM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]

Yeah, I refuse to look at children directly in public. Way too many dirty looks, because if you see a kid in public, chances are they're doing something either cute or funny, and then you'll smile. And then when you smile the mom gives you a dirty look. Yes, pedo fears are rampant nowadays, and it's precisely because too many people are being inundated with a culture of fear thanks to shows like "To catch a predator." Yes, those men were predators. No, you don't have to keep your child off the internet unless, just as in the show, you have reason to believe that your child is actually soliciting sex from adults. Every time I see or hear about some mom over reacting to something innocent, I just want to lose it. "Go look up how many times a stranger has kidnapped a child from its parents, versus how many times parents kidnap children from one another. Go look up how many times a child suffers abuse from a stranger versus its own parent. And then remember that you'll often hear an abusive parent sincerely swear up and down that they love the child more than life itself and would never do anything to harm it." I don't believe that there was this fear and outright misinformed paranoia in western society before a couple decades ago. We are, in fact, being raised and trained to fear not just men, but every god damn thing we can, and usually it's done by acting like our kids are perpetual targets and that we are woefully underprepared to protect them.
posted by shmegegge at 11:36 AM on September 13, 2007 [7 favorites]

Fear is not only the mind-killer, but it is also usually packaged to manipulate.

What is it these fear mongers are pushing? I can only guess it's more consume/war jaundice, designed to make you rush home from the mall in your Escalade, turn on To Catch a Predator, and peep out the blinds for the lurking evil.

Meanwhile, Daddy's playing with baby upstairs, and damnit if she isn't always crying.
posted by four panels at 11:41 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Air New Zealand and Qantas have banned men from sitting next to unaccompanied children on flights.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 11:42 AM on September 13, 2007

Fear sells.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:43 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

When I was travelling around China recently, there was an especially memorable incident that I witnessed at a fairly quiet tourist site in Beijing.

A little European girl, maybe about four or so, was idling around alone (her mother had apparently forged ahead with the tour group). A lone Chinese man walked up to her, squatted down, and started saying cutsey stuff to her in Chinese and his broken English, e.g. "You're such a pretty girl! What's your name?" etc. He then picked her up and started dandling her on his knee and tickling her. The little girl was fairly startled and cried out a little but didn't do anything else. Several other Chinese tourists walking by laughed and smiled, and would make a comment to the man ("She's so white!") or try some baby-talk on the girl.

The girl's mother came running back looking wild-eyed and panicky, grabbed her from the man and immediately ran off. The Chinese standing around were somewhat surprised, and one of them said to the man (in Chinese) "Why didn't she thank you? Foreigners are usually so polite!".

All I could think was, if it had been the US, the man would've been tackled, cuffed, and in the back of a cop car as soon as he grabbed the girl. Certainly any of the passerby would have immediately ran for the police.
posted by xthlc at 11:43 AM on September 13, 2007 [10 favorites]

This question was in Slate's Dear Prudence today:

"Dear Prudence,
My younger, 13-year-old sister is having a slumber party for her birthday, and invited three or so of her 13- to 14-year-old girlfriends to our house. Shortly after, "Sara's" mother suggested that my sister's party should be held at "Tammy's" house. Why? Because Tammy has a single mother. Sara's mother is concerned that my father will be in his house during the festivities. There is no reason to be concerned about my father doing anything inappropriate to any of the girls (all the parents have met each other), but she is just uncomfortable about the idea of her daughter sleeping in the same house with another nonfamily man..."
posted by kimdog at 11:45 AM on September 13, 2007

It's a bit odd when I actually agree with an Wall Street Journal opinion piece, but this guy is basically right. One thing he neglects to mention is that most sexual abuse is perpetrated by a family member and certainly doesn't begin in public. We're much better off creating situations where kids feel comfortable talking to other adults in their life about what happens at home. Fucked up as that is.
posted by Football Bat at 11:45 AM on September 13, 2007

Also, my daughter will be Brownie age in few more years, but with the way things are going I don't know if I'll even be allowed to do anything with her.

At some point, are they going to ask for a background check in before you can do a group activity with your own child?
posted by dw at 11:49 AM on September 13, 2007

I usually avoid looking at kids in public too, even though I love kids and I'm popular with the 2-4 demographic. I'd never do anything inappropriate to a child.

From the op-ed:

Children who die of physical abuse are more often victims of female perpetrators, usually mothers, according to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
...
"Likewise, while we don't want sexual predators to harm our kids, we do want our kids to develop healthy relationships with adults, both men and women. Instilling a fear of men is a profound disservice to everyone."

I think this is a vestige of the year I was answering the door dressed as Mark Spitz.
In the classic pose, I hope.
posted by kirkaracha at 11:50 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

...if you see a kid in public, chances are they're doing something either cute or funny, and then you'll smile. And then when you smile the mom gives you a dirty look.

That seems a terrible shame. Why should a mother's paranoia make you feel like you can't enjoy one of the most lovely things in society? Kids are really cool, and they're even cooler when you can just watch and don't have to take responsibility when they start pegging it round the toy store whacking other kids with a huge inflatable hammer. Maybe that's why I get dirty looks - they don't think I'm a perv, they just sense my gleeful complicity.
posted by RokkitNite at 11:53 AM on September 13, 2007

Dear America -- you created this fucked up society, now deal with it.
posted by NewBornHippy at 11:54 AM on September 13, 2007 [6 favorites]

At some point, are they going to ask for a background check in before you can do a group activity with your own child?

Where have you been? That's standard procedure at schools and pretty much everywhere else these days.
posted by IronLizard at 11:55 AM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

This question was in Slate's Dear Prudence today...

I saw that this morning (guilty pleasure, Prudie is) and was so appalled at the question that I couldn't manage to read the answer. I'd have just told "Sara's" mom to keep "Sara" at home where her own daddy could diddle her instead. Because who, except those who have such irresistable urges to touch kids, seriously considers such a thing?
posted by uncleozzy at 11:56 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

elwoodwiles writes "Flip this around: By creating a fear of men, isn't this enforcing the parenting role on women?"

Shhhhh!
posted by mullingitover at 11:56 AM on September 13, 2007

After further thought: this is actually even more fucked up. Most adults are out to protect their kids, and since they figure that they (or their spouse and family) would never abuse their kids, they don't even worry about themselves or their loved ones as possible culprits. So they obsess and scream at the law-makers about the tiny sliver of molestation cases where complete strangers are the culprit. But most kids who are molested have no-one to speak for them, as their family's either culpable or in denial. Fuck. Now I'm gonna worry about this all day.
posted by Football Bat at 11:57 AM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

My feelings about this issue are somewhat muddled as I'm a little bit upset with my daughter today. This morning I was filling out one of the five hundred forms that kids take home at the beginning of the school year. This one was for the parent to designate guardians who would be allowed to pick up the child if there was an emergency and the parent wasn't available.

Then there was a line "Please specify any individuals who should NOT be allowed to pick up the child."

I wanted to write "Anybody in a clown suit."

Really, really wanted to. But my little angel gave me one of her new looks of pitying dismissal, snatched the paper away and that was that. There's no fun in my life any more.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2007 [18 favorites]

I've made a point of fostering an image that includes an intense dislike of children, specifically for this reason. I am never going to give anybody an opportunity to make a false accusation seem plausible. There's just no polite way to tell the world to keep your children away from me, so I pretend to hate them.
posted by yesster at 11:59 AM on September 13, 2007

Is this just an "America is fucked up" sort of thing? I don't notice or read about these sorts of stories here in Canada.
posted by chunking express at 12:00 PM on September 13, 2007

I'm a big guy myself, and I notice that some women are simply nervous to be around me. It makes me want to turn on my best gay sybillance and go "Honey, I am so not into girls."

Yeah. Me too.
posted by cowbellemoo at 12:02 PM on September 13, 2007

It's so bad that I'm not going to share my supportive personal anecdotes on the web for someone to google and misinterpret. Yes, it's that bad.
posted by sidereal at 12:03 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

chunking express: As the father of a young daughter here in the GWN I find I'm more often anticipating encountering this reaction when I go out on the street with my daughter. But it's never happened that I could tell. So you may be onto something.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:04 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

This morning I was filling out one of the five hundred forms that kids take home at the beginning of the school year.

This morning the school staff didn't want to let me pick up my son because I'd left my ID at home in my rush to go get him (the school had called his mom to pick him up because he had an accident). They didn't bother to have the teacher come see me, since we'd met and the VP was out. It was fucking horrible. They finally called his mom and asked for a description of me. But not until after I had to go get insurance papers from the car in an attempt to prove I was me. Idiots.
posted by IronLizard at 12:05 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

When I was a kid, up through High School, I was constantly afraid that someone would molast me. When ever I would be alone with an adult male (be it a debate coach, a friend's parent, or a scout leader), I was convinced it was going to end in me getting molested.
posted by drezdn at 12:06 PM on September 13, 2007

When kids bump into me, I shove them real hard so they fall down, and I yell, "Watch where you're going kid."

But seriously, I have a 3 year old son who I take with me alone everywhere I go (he's my bodyguard), and nobody thinks I'm a stranger, since every other word out of his mouth is daddy this, daddy that, look what I can do daddy! I don't understand the stares that some of the above posters get.
posted by MrMulan at 12:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

So did they molast you?
posted by IronLizard at 12:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

I'm not sure its so unreasonable for parents to worry mostly about stranger molestation, even if its a tiny portion of all molestation cases. If I'm a parent, I know whether or not I'm molesting my child. If I've selected my partner well and am involved in the home life of the family I should have a reasonable belief that my child is not being molested at home. The thing I can't control is strangers. For the vast majority of parents who are concerned about the danger of their children being molested, strangers are the biggest danger.

Does this justify hysteria or looking askance at every man with a child in public? Of course, not. But, it's not wrong for a parent to be more concerned about their child being molested by strangers than by themselves, since afterall, they know whether or not they're molesters.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 12:09 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

This is all so sad. The actual rates of abuse in the west haven't risen at all... but every human is 100x more aware and paranoid of the possibility. Talk about loss of innocence. We're raising generations of little prisoners.
posted by chuckdarwin at 12:10 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Yeah, when i'm out in public and a baby smiles at me or waves, I check to see if the parent is watching before I smile back. I'm pretty creeped out by the idea that people could see me and think, "Kiddie-diddler", but I guess I might be the same way if I have kids.
posted by 235w103 at 12:11 PM on September 13, 2007

Is this just an "America is fucked up" sort of thing?

Hardly. See the link above about Air New Zealand and Qantas banning men from sitting next to children on flights. And I think Britain is way more paranoid/misinformed than the US when it comes to this subject. After all it was in Britain that a mob attacked a doctor's house... because they confused "pedophile" with "pediatrician".
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:11 PM on September 13, 2007

So did they molast you?

I think it's clear from drezdn's tone that this is a cry for help and that at some point in his tender childhood he was well and truly molasticized. ;-)
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:12 PM on September 13, 2007

i usually pinch 'em on the butt, leer and say "hubba hubba" out loud. after all, they're just asking for it.
posted by quonsar at 12:12 PM on September 13, 2007 [4 favorites]

I check to see if the parent is watching before I smile back

Unfortunately, this would probably convince the parent that you were up to no good if they were to catch you. Treat someone as if they're guilty and sooner or later they'll do something that proves it to you.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:14 PM on September 13, 2007

Between my triumphant victory in a staring contest with a baby and subsequent vocal celebration (mom: "oh, real nice work there, jackass") and teaching a toddler to chew up french fries and then open her mouth and stare at her family, it's a wonder I haven't done something more drastic already...
posted by hototogisu at 12:16 PM on September 13, 2007

I have a very affectionate 8-year-old son. He likes to hold my hand, and frequently ups and hugs me out of the blue. I reciprocate, as I love him more than life itself. I refuse to let any of this crap get to me -- I'm a damn good dad to him, and he and I know that, and that is ALL that is important.

I smile at and talk to other folks' kids, too, if they seem friendly. I don't want those kids going through life without a kind word from a nice man.

Not. Party. To. Fear.
posted by Devils Rancher at 12:19 PM on September 13, 2007 [14 favorites]

In the area of SF where we used to live, there was a large Chinese-American community living and working in the area. It was common to see kids running around unsupervised being talked to, played with, or disciplined by whatever adult happened to be nearby. Small kids with their parents were subject to being picked up or fed candy on the sly by grandparent aged types. With an entire neighborhood keeping a half eye on the kids, it's hard to see how any child could come to harm, or be abused without someone noticing something.

It's a very unfortunate tendency (not sure whether to blame this on American individualism or the big "stranger danger" push for the past two decades or what) for parents to view their (nuclear) family as a self-contained, us against the world unit when it comes to child raising and care. I think it's far more natural, and far less stressful for parents (possibly leading to fewer in-family abuse cases, who knows) to rely upon extended family and community for support and assistance when it comes to watching and raising kids. Training ourselves and our children to react to all non-parent male adults with fear and suspicion is a symptom of a larger problem --- it's not just that we don't trust men, it's that we don't trust anyone, and put on ourselves alone the job of keeping our children safe from nebulous outside dangers of every description.
posted by Wavelet at 12:21 PM on September 13, 2007 [11 favorites]

Bulgar: I think that you still have a lot of uncles, cousins, friends of family, etc. to worry about before strangers. Basically, trusted people with access. There was a months-ago-askme where someone who works at a criminal defense firm pointed out that in his experience the acquaintance-molesting pedos don't seem otherwise out of the normal.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:22 PM on September 13, 2007

Re: Then there was a line "Please specify any individuals who should NOT be allowed to pick up the child."

There's a very good reason for that. How do you think most parents who were denied custody kidnap their children from their ex?
posted by mike3k at 12:22 PM on September 13, 2007

Weird. I've never seen anything like this, either the dirty looks or the suspicious man-with-young-girl thing when I'm out with my 2.5 year old daughter. Either I'm utterly oblivious (entirely possible, mind you) or no, it isn't actually that bad.

Also, my daughter's pre-school teacher is male. And he's awesome.
posted by rusty at 12:22 PM on September 13, 2007

I make funny faces at babies I see out in public, but the idea of touching a kid, or worse, being touched by a kid, really frightens me. I don't want to be sued and I'm quite conscious of the possibility every time a kid comes near me.

It's too bad because some of these kids are super cute and I'd like to bounce them on my knee, push them on a swing, or something.

I'm occasionally asked to see babies and kids in my clinical practice and honestly, I dislike it for the same reason. I'm not going to hurt a kid - I know that, the kid usually knows that too - but the parents may not trust me, and the parents can hire lawyers. The parents must remain in the room at all times and I often have a nurse come in and chaperone the physical exam as well.

It is too bad that this is what it has come to. I like kids and I would like more opportunity to interact with them in healthy ways.
posted by ikkyu2 at 12:23 PM on September 13, 2007

I have to wonder if any of this is at all related to the "awareness" raising exercises -- and the fact that the latest generation of parents was probably raised on them. A community that can't talk about issues like rape and abuse is gonna have some issues, but maybe we've injected a few cc's of awareness too many into the bloodstream of shared narrative.
posted by namespan at 12:23 PM on September 13, 2007

I just realized that I don't hate kids. It's parents I hate.
posted by psmealey at 12:26 PM on September 13, 2007 [10 favorites]

I go further than the guy in the elevator. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings, so when I am in public and there is a child nearby, I premptively go up to his/her guardian and say "I don't fancy him. I just don't."
posted by Mayor Curley at 12:27 PM on September 13, 2007 [6 favorites]

Self-styled vigilantes attacked the home of a hospital paediatrician after apparently confusing her professional title with the word "paedophile", it emerged yesterday.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:29 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Little kids and babies are often fascinated by me. Often because of my beard and sophisticated, acerbic wit, but also because I automatically smile when I notice them, which is often when they aren't getting attention from anyone else. I can't honestly recall anyone ever eyeing me with suspicion for this, but I can say that I am constantly aware that that is a danger.

On a more personal note, one of the few regrets in my life is that I never felt that it would be safe for me to show physical affection to my step kids when they were growing up. Being a man (and for several years a "stay-at-home" dad) was bad enough, but a step dad? Everyone knows that step dads are evil. I've hugged my kids many more times as adults than I ever allowed myself when they were children. It's a mistake I have not repeated with my grandchildren. I refuse to be shamed into feigning disinterest.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:29 PM on September 13, 2007 [5 favorites]

If you missed it, go read this Fark Thread from last week about this subject. It's about the saddest thing I've ever read.
posted by zengargoyle at 12:30 PM on September 13, 2007

It was here
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:34 PM on September 13, 2007

This isn't new. I part-timed as a gymnastics coach during high school in the late 80s, kids aged from 5-13. The looks I endured from parents when I had to spot their children were scary; some even pulled their kids from my classes, even though it always ended with their kid quitting in protest.

Gender never seemed to be a factor. Apparently all teenage boys want to molest anything and everything. Who knew?
posted by Pufferish at 12:35 PM on September 13, 2007

IRFH is a grandfather? Holy shit, you are so much cooler than I thought previously.
posted by shmegegge at 12:35 PM on September 13, 2007

I'm sorry, men. You deserve better. Women shouldn't be blamed for every thing wrong with their child, and men shouldn't be assumed to be perverts.
posted by arcticwoman at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2007

I go further than the guy in the elevator. I don't want there to be any misunderstandings, so when I am in public and there is a child nearby, I premptively go up to his/her guardian and say "I don't fancy him. I just don't."

I would go even further, Mayor Curley: I would follow up with "maybe if you did something with his hair, or put him in a pair of overalls that were a little less 'I've just come off the farm'..."
posted by Turtles all the way down at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

This is depressing. Making faces at strange kids, getting a smile or a laugh or (best of all) a funny-face war going, is one of my favorite ways to kill time.

Three weeks ago, in the middle of nowhere in western Tanzania, a man on a typical ridiculously overcrowded local minibus handed me his young boy without a word to hold in my lap until they got off. Didn't blink an eye.
posted by gottabefunky at 12:36 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I was reading an interview with one of The Wiggles, or possibly the guy who plays Captain Feathersword (if those names mean nothing to you, you're not the parent of a child under 10). Anyway, he mentioned that The Wiggles have a hard-and-fast rule against giving kids hugs (even though most kids would love a hug). They don't want to risk even the appearance of impropriety, or give someone an opportunity to claim inappropriate conduct.
posted by pardonyou? at 12:42 PM on September 13, 2007

I read Prudie this morning, and now this - how sad. On the one hand we hear about how fathers are often not part of their children's lives, either because they left the mom, were never with the mom, work obscene hours or are just lazy gits who don't want any part in the work of raising children. Then on the other hand we see that people are suspicious of any man seen alone with a child, and a police officer questioned a man having lunch with his daughter because a passer-by became suspicious of their interactions?

For the love of god, people. You can't have it both ways.

I was thinking about this myself not too long ago; my husband took a day off work to take his three boys (who live with us) to a local kiddie place - ball room, batting cages, go-carts, etc. And I thought for a brief moment that he might run into this problem, until it occurred to me that (1) all three boys look pretty much like mini-me, and (2) no pedo in his right mind would take on a 6 year old, an ornery 8 year old and a 12 year old all at once, out in public. And anyone who looked at them funny would have to be a sick motherfucker to think that way.

As for me - I don't think like this. I don't look around at men with or near children and think they must be sick bastards diddling the kids. I see a guy pushing a stroller or caring for his child and I think, AWESOME. Hope their mom is off getting a pedicure somewhere.

I guess there must be a lot of people who do think like this for it to be making news, but I hope to god there are a lot more of us who don't. Although it could just mean that I'm a hopeless optimist, completely blind to the evil of humanity.
posted by jennaratrix at 12:44 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I refuse to look at children directly in public. Way too many dirty looks, because if you see a kid in public, chances are they're doing something either cute or funny, and then you'll smile. And then when you smile the mom gives you a dirty look.
posted by shmegegge at 2:36 PM on September 13

When this happens to me, I just tell the mom, "Relax, I'm not planning to kidnap your kid. I'm planning to kidnap you." Then I bare my teeth.

She's worried about me taking her kid? You wish, mom. Trust me, that kid would be better off with me than with your neurotic, merlot-drinking, Xanax-popping ass.
posted by Pastabagel at 12:45 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I was a kid in the 70's. I never recall hearing a single word from my parents about "stranger danger" and I was never shown anyone's sausage collection or buggered. I guess I was kinda an ugly kid, thinking about it now...
posted by maxwelton at 12:46 PM on September 13, 2007

a hard-and-fast rule

Is that the best way to characterize it?
posted by sidereal at 12:47 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Devils Rancher, that was beautifully stated. I could not agree more, in every respect.
posted by pardonyou? at 12:48 PM on September 13, 2007

The other day I took my 17 month old son to the shopping mall. For whatever reason, he became spooked just after we entered and began screaming and trying to get down. When I put him down, he turned tail and ran for the door. As I turned to go after him, I felt the hot glare of the people standing nearby. I picked him up, took him home and ran my errands another day. Its a good thing my son looks exactly like me. If it had been my stepson, or a policeman would have seen my son's freakout, it would have made a bad day infinitely worse.
posted by Crotalus at 12:49 PM on September 13, 2007

Yeah, I've experienced this while working as a pizza delivery guy. A lot of kids get really excited about the pizza guy and run up to interact with me before.

Some mothers seemed really uncomfortable with this by default, and if I chatted back to them they would give the unmistakable 'I think you may be a pedo' look. Sometimes they would sometimes literally hide their kids from me before finishing the transaction.

It actually could get really bad during summer when there would be little kids in bathing suits running around and trying to interact with me. If a little was in a bathing suit sometimes just glancing down at them as they came running up towards me could set the parents into emergency lock down mode. So I'd get little nervous delivering anywhere during the summer with a kiddie pool out in the yard, and had to make sure to keep my eyes fixed straight ahead staring off into space/the door/whatever out of fear, no matter how much the kids are trying to get my attention, because anything else was simply a risk I wasn't willing to take after seeing some of the parent reactions to even the most minor interactions.
posted by Jezztek at 12:58 PM on September 13, 2007

Even women who smile at or engage with babies sometimes get dirty looks-- and because I'm "broody" as they say in England, I always think they think I'm going to kidnap their kid.

Maybe mothers of young children are just cranky?
posted by Maias at 12:59 PM on September 13, 2007

Mark my words: a pizza delivery guy is going to get shot by overeager parents one of these days. "He was looking at my kid! I had to shoot him to protect my children!"
posted by aramaic at 1:04 PM on September 13, 2007

Let's play a game. Without clicking, try to guess which policy relates to children in the presence of adult males and which one relates to, oh, say, nuclear weapons. No clicking now!

These policies can be intricate. For instance, four [adult leaders|soldiers] are needed for each [outing|transfer]. If a [sick child|missile] must [go home|be moved], two [adults|soldiers] drive [him|it] and two stay with the others, so no [adult|soldier] is ever alone with a [Scout|Minuteman]. "It's protection for the [adults|soldiers], as well as the [children|missiles]," says [a|an] [Scouts|Air Force] spokesman.

OR

Rules require that at least two people jointly control every step of the process. If one person loses sight of the other, both are forced to the ground face-down and temporarily "placed under arrest" by observant [security forces|scoutmasters]. All progress stops until inspections are made to assure the [weapons|children] weren't tampered with.
posted by The Bellman at 1:05 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

It's more than just fear, I think. It's also about hypersexualization and compartmentalization. It's not possible to be friends with a child, you're either a care-giver or must be a perv. Who would want to be friends with a kid?
posted by bonehead at 1:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Being 6'4 and having that "I've been single for way too long" unkempt-look, I get a lot of the "oh no it's the boogeyman" look from moms (and women by themselves) in public. Which I suppose is kinda funny, people who know me find that description laughable. I try not to let it get to me, but that's hard sometimes.

I suppose I'm the sort that would get along great with kids, but honestly I'm not about to find out for the very reasons discussed in this thread.

Hooray for paranoia!
posted by mattly at 1:09 PM on September 13, 2007

The Wiggles have a hard-and-fast rule against giving kids hugs (even though most kids would love a hug). They don't want to risk even the appearance of impropriety, or give someone an opportunity to claim inappropriate conduct.

I'm in a weekly Kids Show here in Atlanta, and I give out countless hugs after every show. The parents never seem to mind, and I'm a friggin' 33 year old man wearing lederhosen!

I'm guessing context is what matters, here. If I was in a mall or a WalMart parking lot, there'd be problems.
posted by BobFrapples at 1:11 PM on September 13, 2007

As a young man considering a future career in teaching, I've become acutely aware of this issue -- and it hurts.

The thing is, I don't see myself ever getting married -- to a man or woman. So when future 28 year old Mr. Avenger shows up to Parent-Teacher night without a wedding ring on -- it will turn heads.

It's bad enough being bi in Texas (Wot? U have sex wit man & womanz?!?! at same timez?!?!) but being an unmarried male teacher is practically the same as wearing a huge neon sign that says "HELLO I AM A MOLESTER". Either that, or "HELLO I AM A HOMO, AND THEREFORE A MOLESTER".

And it's not just Texas. Unmarried men are viewed with almost universal suspicion all over the place.

I think I may end up going to a local pawn shop and buying a fake wedding band. Either that or just hurry up and get my doctorate program started so I can teach college.
posted by Avenger at 1:14 PM on September 13, 2007

I wave at kids and smile at babies, and I find the idea that someone would be upset by that so utterly baffling. WTF, people?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:16 PM on September 13, 2007

I read that Fark thread the other day and was impressed with how relatively serious it was. And seriously depressing.

I agree with Devils Rancher too. You just have to refuse this 'new normal'; every person that doesn't, and submits to that idea of what things are like, just makes matters worse. I often feel like a creep when I'm looking after my kids alone, but that feeling is coming from outside myself - from the glares of mothers at a new park mostly.

It can get you down, but what would be even worse than my feeling weird or awkward is if my kids were to realise that I was feeling this way, and in turn felt weird or awkward themselves.

So I try to just shrug it off, and not internalize it. It's one reason I'm glad I live in a small town where people do still know each other and aren't quick to assume the worst of (shudder) strangers.
posted by stinkycheese at 1:16 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

IronLizard writes "Where have you been? That's standard procedure at schools and pretty much everywhere else these days."

Seriously? Wow. I'm glad I don't have kids. I would find it hard to subject myself to such bullshit without loudly complaining or rejecting it altogether.
posted by krinklyfig at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2007

Whenever I look at a mother of a young child, I remember that the woman has, in most cases, only been "a mother" for as long as that kid has been alive. In other words, she's new on the job.

We have male preschool teachers at my school, and quite a number of male elementary teachers; it was only this year that we first had a (slight) majority of women faculty members in any of the grades. Nobody objects. It's a boys' school. But we don't (any of us, male or female) give kids of any age rides home or meet them off campus unaccompanied anyway.
posted by Peach at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2007

I went searching for that Wiggles interview I mentioned, and it actually was Paul Paddick (aka "Captain Feathersword"). This is what the article said:

As part of the Wiggles circus, Paddick has had to curb his natural exuberance. For example, none of the Wiggles ever touch children. And when they are photographed with children, they always adopt their now-famous "pointy fingers" pose - "so there is no doubting where their hands are", Paddick explains.

"I didn't know any of that stuff when I first became Captain Feathersword," he admits. "I've got lots of nieces and nephews and I'm very hands-on." The Wiggles team insisted that touching children, however innocently, was inappropriate - and open to the risk of litigation, particularly as the monetary value of the Wiggles brand name rose.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2007

(link).
posted by pardonyou? at 1:22 PM on September 13, 2007

Oh, and all teachers have to have an FBI check too, and we were just informed we have to be fingerprinted.

We sometimes don't let parents pick up kids if they're unfamiliar to us, but that's not because of child abuse. It's because of divorce child custody disputes. Some of the parents are under court order to stay the heck away from their kids, and if we let the non-custodial parent take a kid there's hell to pay. Most of those milk-carton pictures are parental kidnappings.
posted by Peach at 1:23 PM on September 13, 2007

I'm in a weekly Kids Show here in Atlanta, and I give out countless hugs after every show...

Note to self: get that form back from the school and add "entertaining man wearing lederhosen." ;-P
posted by Turtles all the way down at 1:23 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Well it's no longer appropriate to obsess about female sexuality so children are all that's left. These sorts of sexual mass neuroses, whether the target be women or children or same-sex identifications, are always useful if only to justify an atmosphere of more general oppression. Somebody's got to play the bad guy. But the interesting thing about the obsession with pedophilia is just how terribly effective it is. This particular goblin seems to be just tailor made for TV. Unlike race or a wealth which are easily observable social qualities that serve to reinforce social structures, pedophilia has a wonderful kind of invisibility to it, it's almost the perfect enemy, an invisible enemy that harms children.
posted by nixerman at 1:23 PM on September 13, 2007

Re: the Dear Prudence question...

My daughter has a friend who is not allowed to come over for play dates or to sleep over because I am a single father with custody, and there is no woman in the house to keep my bestial urges in check.

Okay, I'm guessing about the bestial urges part, but seriously, she cannot come over because there is a man but no woman in the house. This is her father's rule, btw.
posted by hurkle at 1:24 PM on September 13, 2007

I was in a supermarket several years ago, near the end of an aisle, looking for something on the shelf. Suddenly, I felt a small person wrapped around my leg. I looked down and saw a little girl, about three. Looked up, and saw Mom at the other end of the aisle, gathering steam and headed towards me with death in her eye. I looked back down, raised my arm, and pointed at the woman. "Isn't that your mommy?" She let go and raced to Mom, who gathered her up and left with a parting death-glance. It was surreal.

I am sure I get a lot of suspicious looks when I'm out with my 4-year old, because she's Chinese and I'm not. I take no notice. If someone were to challenge my right to be with her, or try to interfere with it, they would live to regret it.

Is it possible that this Men Are Bad attitude is a front in the War On Boys?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:33 PM on September 13, 2007

four panels writes "What is it these fear mongers are pushing? I can only guess it's more consume/war jaundice, designed to make you rush home from the mall in your Escalade, turn on To Catch a Predator, and peep out the blinds for the lurking evil."

I don't think it's "designed" to do anything besides get ratings. This is not some sort of deep covert conspiracy - "Yes, of course, Jeeves! We can portray men as predators. This will cause a drop in male teachers, and an increase in female teachers. That means more small children saying "misses" instead of "mister". And with every utterance of the extra 's', there will be a little bit more saliva sprayed out, making the children just a little bit more dehydrated. Multiply that across the nation, and we're talking a massive increase in demand for bottled water. Bottle water which is manufactured by the Umbrella Corporation. And I, the president of the Umbrella Corporation, will control this water! I can charge as much as I want! The world will be brought to my feet!!" -- I think it's just simple ratings mongering to get more viewers to get more advertising dollars. Nothing deeper.

Pufferish writes "This isn't new. I part-timed as a gymnastics coach during high school in the late 80s, kids aged from 5-13. The looks I endured from parents when I had to spot their children were scary; some even pulled their kids from my classes, even though it always ended with their kid quitting in protest."

I think what's new is the spread. I was a kid through the 80's, and there were a few fields considered "dangerous" (as in, us kids would think "that guy may be a pedo"). Gym teacher was probably number 1. School counselor would be number 2. Number 3 would probably be anybody who worked as a mall Santa Claus. There may have been a number 4, I dunno. The difference is, now that list numbers into the hundreds.
posted by bugbread at 1:33 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Is it okay yet to start busting out the paedophile jokes?
posted by psmealey at 1:38 PM on September 13, 2007

Not until they grow more hair.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:39 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

My sister has forbidden me from letting pictures of my niece and nephew go anywhere near the interenet.

"But I could put them as 'family only' on flickr, so no one but you and mom could see them."

"No. A molester could hack your flickr account and find them."

"Um, ok, email then?"

"No. I don't want pictures of my kids on the internet. Anywhere."

"Sigh."

I tried to explain that the chances of a stranger molesting her kids is astronomically low, especially in comparison to the chances of a family member or friend doing it. It didn't register.
posted by mullingitover at 1:41 PM on September 13, 2007

I'm a single dad with a seven year old daughter. She sees her mom a couple of times a month. I've never noticed any strange looks from other parents or adults when I'm out with my daughter. We live live within walking distance from a park. We basically spent the summer there. On more than one occasion, I've helped other children at the park with monkey bars or a push on the swing. For everyone saying they won't even look at a child when out in public I've just got to say how sad.
posted by Sailormom at 1:46 PM on September 13, 2007

mullingitover: "Hey, sis. The odds of a family member molesting your kids are relatively high."

Sis: "Um... Please, you and your camera stay away from my kids."
posted by found missing at 1:47 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

In situations where I find myself smiling or waving at a friendly child in public, I generally make sure to give the parents a big i'm going to molest you as well smile.

Cue CSI:Miami intro.
posted by ogre at 1:50 PM on September 13, 2007

When I was little (late 60's - 70's), my parents had two rules for me regarding strangers: don't go anywhere with someone you don't know and if they grab you and try to make you go with them scream and try to get away. That was it. Strangers were allowed to talk to me, make faces at me, push me on a swing, whatever. They weren't going to molest me in public, so the only thing to avoid was going away with them or letting them take me without a big ruckus. Twice in my younger years someone did try to get me to go with them, and I applied the rules. They worked.

I thank them for not putting the fear of strangers in me, because now I can talk to anyone, anywhere, and am a very open person ... which has led to making a whole lot of great friends, every one of whom was obviously a stranger when I met them.

The other big rule was that if anyone, stranger, friend, teacher, family member, every did anything that seemed odd, freaky, or made me feel nervous, I should tell them about it. I did. Sometimes it was just a small kid not understanding what an adult had said or done and it being nothing at all, but once it was something to be concerned about and so appropriate measures were taken to make sure I was never alone with that person again.

If kids don't learn to interact with other people outside their family unit while they are still kids, how can they be expected to know how to interact with a wide variety of people as adults? I'd say that's a problem of a grand scale. You cannot go through life not knowing how to deal with all kinds of people you don't know, some of whom might actually be weirdos or perverts. If you grow up thinking everyone is out to rape/kidnap/molest you, you will miss out on a lot of learning experiences and your ability to tell the actual sickos from non-sickos is going to out of whack ... not to mention living with all that stress and fear. Can't be healthy.

And the father having lunch with his kid and being hassled by a cop? That is just sickening.
posted by Orb at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]

Surprised no one's mentioned male nannies yet. I gather they are the coming thing, esp. for working couples with only male children.
posted by IndigoJones at 1:55 PM on September 13, 2007

found missing writes "Sis: 'Um... Please, you and your camera stay away from my kids.'"

Seems plausible until you take into account how much I hate kids.
posted by mullingitover at 1:59 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

I read that Fark thread the other day and was impressed with how relatively serious it was.

I was too, until I got to the 13-year-old contingent insisting that breasts have a sexual function, and then I remembered both that it was Fark and why I don't go there.
Of course, I halfway expect someone to make a stupid comment about that here too, cause you can't get away from 13-year-olds on the internet.
posted by agregoli at 2:01 PM on September 13, 2007

What timing! That infamous bicycle shop episode of Diff'rent Strokes was on TBS just this very afternoon.
posted by Reggie Digest at 2:04 PM on September 13, 2007

how can they be expected to know how to interact with a wide variety of people as adults?

That's exactly what you don't want -- some of those other people might be, as they say, other. You know, one of those people.

If you teach kids how to interact with a variety of people, they might then start accepting that variety! They might even form, and I almost vomit saying it, friendships with people of different social standing!

My god. Think of it. It sickens me, as it should sicken every godfearing redblooded American.
posted by aramaic at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2007

agregoli writes "I was too, until I got to the 13-year-old contingent insisting that breasts have a sexual function"

If you haven't experienced the sexual function of breasts, it's safe to say you haven't really lived.
posted by mullingitover at 2:08 PM on September 13, 2007 [7 favorites]

If kids don't learn to interact with other people outside their family unit while they are still kids, how can they be expected to know how to interact with a wide variety of people as adults?

My son's kind of shy, and when someone talks to him, he takes a little cajoling. I usually say something like. "That man's talking to you. Are you going to answer him?"

The idea of someone trying to swipe my kid while I'm standing there in the grocery store next to him is freaking absurd. (I don't tend to let him out of my sight in places like that, but that's because I'm a responsible parent. The park, or the yard, he's free to cruise, so long as he checks in)
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:14 PM on September 13, 2007

I've made a point of fostering an image that includes an intense dislike of children, specifically for this reason.

I do the same thing. The truth is, I don't particularly like or dislike kids (never really been around them since I was one). It's just a lot easier to vaguely dislike kids by default than to be around them and worry about what people might think.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 2:14 PM on September 13, 2007

If you haven't experienced the sexual function of breasts, it's safe to say you haven't really lived.

And of course, someone had to be pathetic and mention it here. I knew you boys couldn't resist saying something stupid! The discourse here can be so great and then so sad.
posted by agregoli at 2:14 PM on September 13, 2007

I smile at and talk to other folks' kids, too, if they seem friendly. I don't want those kids going through life without a kind word from a nice man.

Not. Party. To. Fear.

I'd like a Greasemonkey script that automatically favorites any comment Devils Rancher makes, plz. I also smile and talk to kids, and honestly, I can't recall getting a dirty look for it. I even look a little molesty, if I do say so myself. This year, I will be reading to preschoolers at my daughter's school, and I drive her and two other girls in a carpool. I am really saddened by the people that change their lives and forsake the innocent pleasures of life because of fear.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:19 PM on September 13, 2007

Of course, I halfway expect someone to make a stupid comment about that here too, cause you can't get away from 13-year-olds on the internet.

That's the genius of the $5 entrance fee. Children don't have credit cards, and so can't post on Metafilter.
posted by JDHarper at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2007

I started out as a shy kid too, and my parents did the exact same thing Devils Rancher does with his kid. Had they not (even without instilling OMG STRANGER DANGER fear), I don't think I would have ever gotten out of being terribly shy, and I would have been worse off for that as well.

aramaic: Ha, ha ... exactly. Wouldn't want your kids associating with "those" people, whoever they may be. ;)
posted by Orb at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2007

That's the genius of the $5 entrance fee. Children don't have credit cards, and so can't post on Metafilter.

That only makes it sadder that grown adult males make such idiotic comments here sometimes. But I'm not going to further dignify that kind of jokey comment with an argument about why it's stupid and completely inaccurate - I saw how THAT went on FARK.

Back on topic, I do believe it has to do with fear and I agree with a few people here that say the solution is likely in part to not give into that fear - to keep smiling at kids, to keep interacting with them. I can't imagine that kind of scrutiny on a dad or a guy out and about with a kid and it definitely makes me sad. It has to be hard to think that someone who doesn't know you automatically thinks the worst through no fault of your own.
posted by agregoli at 2:24 PM on September 13, 2007

Also, the more men that refuse to submit to the fear-mongering like Devils Rancher and me (and some of the other commenters her) the better. If all nice, friendly men stop smiling at and talking to kids, that would be the real tragedy.
posted by Rock Steady at 2:25 PM on September 13, 2007

agregoli: I don't read fark, but now you've piqued my interest. Is it your contention that breasts do not have a sexual function? How are you defining 'sexual function'? How does this relate to generalized suspicion about men and children?
posted by found missing at 2:29 PM on September 13, 2007

You'll have to read FARK for that argument, sorry.
posted by agregoli at 2:31 PM on September 13, 2007

Well, jeepers, why did you bring it up then?
posted by found missing at 2:32 PM on September 13, 2007

Jeepers, because many people bring up many things in casual conversation here. I shouldn't have, you're right - didn't expect to get a hard time about it.
posted by agregoli at 2:37 PM on September 13, 2007

Is it okay yet to start busting out the paedophile jokes?

My daughter and I were walking to my parents house a couple of weeks ago and we took a shortcut that went down some disused railway tracks. The trail eventually became quite narrowed by encroaching blackberry bushes. My daughter said "Wow, this is kind of scary." I said "You think you're scared, I've got to walk back alone!"

Rather than ask me what the hell I was talking about she gave me patented look #2: pathetic daddy is amusing himself again; just be patient and he'll stop eventually.
posted by Turtles all the way down at 2:37 PM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]

b00b33z!!!!!
posted by quonsar at 2:45 PM on September 13, 2007

Christ, you're cranky. Back off.
posted by found missing at 2:45 PM on September 13, 2007

When I was working retail, I once noticed a small child (three or four years old, maybe) dismantling one of our displays and throwing stuff on the floor. I looked around; there didn't seem to be a parent-type person anywhere nearby. I went up to the kid and said "Hey, do you know where your mommy or daddy is?" Kid kept throwing stuff. We had a customer who was deaf, so I thought, maybe the kid is hard-of-hearing, and I tapped his shoulder to get his attention. His mom came zooming around the corner - from the next aisle over - and grabbed the kid by the hand and said "Don't touch my child!" They left.

It took me a while to understand that she thought I was going to do something Bad to her kid (I'm a woman, btw, but often mistaken for male, especially in the oversized chef jackets that were my department's uniform). But if she was so worried, why the hell was she in a completely different aisle, out of sight of her son?

People are weird. And not in a good way.
posted by rtha at 2:46 PM on September 13, 2007

Yup, as an aside to a casual comment about how respectful the FARK thread was. Both were a derail and I'm very sorry I mentioned it at all since it's completely ruining a thread where I was enjoying the ensuing discussion very much. Can we get back on track, please?
posted by agregoli at 2:51 PM on September 13, 2007

Although you can get arrested for "watching children play" in NY if one of your kids isn't among them.

Cite please.
posted by brain_drain at 3:07 PM on September 13, 2007

[agregoli derail pruned, let's get back on track with the original article.]
posted by mathowie at 3:16 PM on September 13, 2007

A few years ago, I was working retail, and this shy little 3 year-old girl with a despondent look in her eye politely asked me, "Can you help me find my mommy?" Instinctively, I got down on a knee, smiled, and said, "Yeah! I'm sure your mommy's around here, let's go find her!" I grabbed her by the hand, and after circling a couple clothes-racks, the girl let go and went racing up to this woman. The mom looked up at me and politely smiled and nodded thanks.

Later, when the woman was in line to purchase items, her daughter was wrapped around her leg, swinging in semi-circles. She stopped to stare at me, and when I smiled and waved, she shyly gripped her mom's leg tighter but managed a smile and that clam-like hand-clamping motion that kids always do. The mom looked at her daughter, then me, and smiled again.

That little interaction made my day. I can only imagine what a "stranger danger" attitude could have done to completely ruin my day.

(couple notes: I was 23 at the time, not sure at what age most kids/parents are primed to be alerted for; also, mom/daughter were of Asian American descent, no idea if cultural background had any factors)
posted by Mach3avelli at 3:19 PM on September 13, 2007

Strange. Maybe it's because I work with older students, but I never really have people look at me strange when dealing with students. I mean, I am very stand offish and anti-hug (when possible), but not out of fear, but simply because I consider my personal space to extend out for about seven feet.

Also, I am glad that I am not the only one who plays Face War. I haven't gotten any strange looks for it yet. But, then again, I wouldn't have noticed. I fuck a baby UP in some face war, and that takes focus. Wait, maybe crack a baby up would be a better turn of phrase.
posted by absalom at 3:38 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]