Students shouldn't carry guns, teachers should.

September 19, 2007 7:07 PM

In a lawsuit filed in Oregon, a local teacher with a permit to carry concealed is demanding the right to take her gun to school. The anonymous plaintiff's personal reasons claim a fear for her life from an abusive ex who works at the same school, however, as the argument takes a life of it's own, we can see echoes of Columbine(wikipedia link) and Virginia Tech.

Additional coverage may be found here, here, and here.

posted by softriver (16 comments total)

a local teacher with a permit to carry concealed is demanding...

(wow - that weapon really must be well concealed)
posted by UbuRoivas at 7:18 PM on September 19, 2007

The page has a picture of Phil Spector leaving a courtroom, but the blurb is tiny. For a few seconds I thought it was a picture of the teacher in the article. Surreal. You don't really want Spector carrying concealed, even if you had no idea of who he was or his history.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:28 PM on September 19, 2007

Of course we can see echoes of Columbine and Virginia Tech, because, you know, shootings actually happened there. By people other than teachers. Tenuous.
posted by Sk4n at 8:02 PM on September 19, 2007

Sk4n - I was referring to the continuous (and contentious) articles that are bringing up those events in the stories themselves. Advocates are suggesting in several outlets that those situations may have turned out differently had teachers had access to handguns.

Personally, I see the thought of teachers carrying weapons as a bad idea, since usually those weapons are more likely going to be used against the owner, if used at all.

As with everything, some disagree.
posted by softriver at 8:08 PM on September 19, 2007

Er, if you think you might be having a gunfight with your ex any day now is hanging around a bunch of kids really that great an idea?
posted by Artw at 8:24 PM on September 19, 2007

You don't really want Spector carrying conealed, even if you had no idea of who he was or his history.

Yes, but if Phil Spector was there at Columbine, he could have pulled his strap and laid down the famous Spector wall of bullets and stopped those two evil doers!
posted by three blind mice at 8:30 PM on September 19, 2007

softriver - I hear you, and certainly agree with your point here. I was being kind of pedantic. But, as you linked, there are a lot of opinions out there that refer to the "responsible concealed carry" view and (outwith school safety zones) I'm not sure I always disagree with those.
posted by Sk4n at 8:41 PM on September 19, 2007

While we're at it, we should arm the school janitors, to protect them from the bus drivers. Fucking bus drivers.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:03 PM on September 19, 2007

Nope. Arm the bus drivers. Yes. Bus drivers. Those yellow-light-flashing-stopsign-side-folding-harbingers-of-mutiny and doom.
posted by Sk4n at 9:40 PM on September 19, 2007

gun owner just popping in to say guns don't belong in schools.
posted by bruce at 10:20 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

There is maybe one teacher per high school that is actually bad-ass enough to not have his/her gun not jacked and used against him by a punk kid. If you need guns in school, get a trained security pro to carry it, not a teacher.
posted by b_thinky at 10:25 PM on September 19, 2007 [1 favorite]

We should arm the lunch lady. In the morning, she can go hunt the school's wild rats and pigeons for the day's menu. In the afternoon, she can wave her pistol at any punk kids who give her sass in the lunch line.

Oh, and arm the principal and superintendent, too. Everyone in the school hates those folks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:34 PM on September 19, 2007

This is a tough issue. Once anti-gun, I - through a series of events - now hold a concealed carry permit. A healthcare provider, I choose not to take my gun into the hospital (though there are no rules against it). One stipulation of having a concealed weapon is that it be concealed - nobody should ever know that you have it unless a life-threatening situation demands it be brandished. In my opinion this woman has two options, 1) carry the gun anyway - ensuring that it is small, discrete and secure, or, 2) lock her gun in a safe designed for the car when she gets to work. If her husband walks into the classroom threatening students with a weapon and she shoots him dead, I'd say her chances are pretty good in the Oregon courts. Of course, parents will then sue her in civil court for traumatizing their kids - but this is a factor you must consider when choosing to carry. Furthermore, carrying a gun is a heavy responsibility, I'll assume she practices regularly.
posted by rotifer at 10:35 PM on September 19, 2007

bruce writes 'gun owner just popping in to say guns don't belong in schools.'

Unless you happen to be running the crack concession. In which case, it's a necessary tool of the trade.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:59 PM on September 19, 2007

I think that Suzanna Hupp would agree with this particular teacher.

"If you need guns in school, get a trained security pro to carry it, not a teacher"

In many many places (with the possible exception of North Dakota, where a legally blind guy passed the test) the level of training that she would have to receive in order to get the permit would equal that of a 'trained security pro' anyway. Not 100% sure about Oregon, but in Washoe County, NV, to get a Nevada non-resident permit I would have to take an approved training class and then range qualify at the County Sheriffs department range.

Oregon - Concealed Handgun, License to Carry

Anyway, if the woman has credible threats against her life, I think that she should be allowed the means to defend herself. Otherwise, what a better way for her ex to have the upper hand. He'll know when she's unarmed and when he can strike, and if he's decided to take it to that level, the "no guns on campus" law probably won't mean squat to him anyway.
posted by drstein at 9:24 AM on September 20, 2007

The article says state law is unclear, but I've always thought it was pretty clear.
Oregon has a state preemption law, which allows local districts to regulate possession of loaded firearms, but specifically prohibits them from applying to holders of a CHL.
The state law specifically excludes holders of a CHL from the prohibition on carrying in a public building.

Even though I am generally in favor of people being able to carry their guns whereever they want, the quotes from advocates of this position always give me pause.
"I worry about people being gunned down like dogs because they've been denied the right to have their self-defense firearm," Starrett said.
I don't think talking like that helps the cause.
There always seems to be a certain part of the gun lobby that spend their time dreaming about saving the day with their weapon.

I imagine that if she wins her lawsuit, the legislature will try to make some changes to the law in short order.
posted by madajb at 10:36 AM on September 20, 2007