It's going to get ugly
March 22, 2001 9:47 AM Subscribe
It's going to get ugly a few years from now. Mad Cow Disease has an incubation period of between 10 and 16 years (or even as much as 30 years). Significant exposure predates 1985. Oh joy.
i think mcdonalds could adapt actually...if anyone could take weird veggie-soy concoctions and sell it to the masses it would be them. And it probably wouldn't even be GOOD for you.
jeepers. Last night at a diner a friend and i were contemplating world take-over, and we realized that something really drastic has to happen to the worlds social and economic systems before we can move...a vegetarian society and fusion power are on are list. phase one is begining. *muahahhahahaha.*
posted by th3ph17 at 10:16 AM on March 22, 2001
jeepers. Last night at a diner a friend and i were contemplating world take-over, and we realized that something really drastic has to happen to the worlds social and economic systems before we can move...a vegetarian society and fusion power are on are list. phase one is begining. *muahahhahahaha.*
posted by th3ph17 at 10:16 AM on March 22, 2001
McDonald's has featured veggie burgers before, and in some markets you can find the McVeggie Deluxe. I agree that there's gotta be a way for McDonald's to make it unhealthy, should it become a big product.
posted by hijinx at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2001
posted by hijinx at 10:18 AM on March 22, 2001
McDonalds will be fine. We've advanced quite a bit in our understanding of prions in the last few years.
We now know that eating the brains of cannibalistic cows is not good.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2001
We now know that eating the brains of cannibalistic cows is not good.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:21 AM on March 22, 2001
Well, us vegetarians don't have that worry, anyway. By the way, I had a veggie-burger at a McDonald's in Manhattan, NY last year. It was delicious. I never thought we'd see them in cow-pie Ohio here but just maybe...
posted by DeBug at 10:37 AM on March 22, 2001
posted by DeBug at 10:37 AM on March 22, 2001
heh. Back in the day when I worked at mcdonald's, we had to find mcveggie burgers in the big freezer in the basement before we could cook them. But since we never really sold any, anytime someone ordered a mcveggie burger, we'd just give them a quarter-pounder with lettuce and tomato. I was always amazed that no one ever came back to complain.
posted by rklawler at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2001
posted by rklawler at 10:42 AM on March 22, 2001
McDonald's have basements?
posted by Chairman_MaoXian at 10:46 AM on March 22, 2001
posted by Chairman_MaoXian at 10:46 AM on March 22, 2001
"Wow, this veggie burger tastes just like real beef!"
*lol* that is so wrong.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:54 AM on March 22, 2001
*lol* that is so wrong.
posted by th3ph17 at 10:54 AM on March 22, 2001
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Feeding the vegheads a burger on the sly ! Priceless. How serious can you be as a veg if you even step thru the door of McDonalds? Damn that is funny.
posted by a3matrix at 11:37 AM on March 22, 2001
Feeding the vegheads a burger on the sly ! Priceless. How serious can you be as a veg if you even step thru the door of McDonalds? Damn that is funny.
posted by a3matrix at 11:37 AM on March 22, 2001
I think it's funny on one hand, but on the other hand, there are cases where it's like giving pixie stix to a diabetic.
If you can say that no one was hurt, great. Haha. If not, don't screw with people's diets.
posted by jragon at 11:59 AM on March 22, 2001
If you can say that no one was hurt, great. Haha. If not, don't screw with people's diets.
posted by jragon at 11:59 AM on March 22, 2001
Are you sure rklawler's prank doesn't say more about the meat content of normal McDonald's "burgers"?
posted by harmful at 12:06 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by harmful at 12:06 PM on March 22, 2001
Getting beef on your veggie burger is pretty tame compared to some of the stories I've heard. Beavis & Butthead do exist and they are employed at your nearby fast food restaurant.
posted by gimli at 12:11 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by gimli at 12:11 PM on March 22, 2001
that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, if you did that to me and I found out...well...I won't mention it because it will probably end up with a swat team busting into my house at 3 in the morning. God dammit
what happened to morals and ethics? working at mcdonald's has to be the EASIEST job out there, and you were too lazy to go downstairs? Christ.
posted by starduck at 12:12 PM on March 22, 2001
what happened to morals and ethics? working at mcdonald's has to be the EASIEST job out there, and you were too lazy to go downstairs? Christ.
posted by starduck at 12:12 PM on March 22, 2001
Getting beef on your veggie burger is pretty tame
Except for the fact that after not eating beef (chicken, fish, pork, etc.) for even a few months your body slows down (or stops completely) production of some of the enzymes that break meat down. Vegitarians who haven't eaten beef in years can suffer some serious gastrointestinal issues from something as simple as a bit of grease.
At least with some jackoff's "special sauce" you aren't getting anything your body can't handle. Truly uncool.
posted by cCranium at 12:35 PM on March 22, 2001
Except for the fact that after not eating beef (chicken, fish, pork, etc.) for even a few months your body slows down (or stops completely) production of some of the enzymes that break meat down. Vegitarians who haven't eaten beef in years can suffer some serious gastrointestinal issues from something as simple as a bit of grease.
At least with some jackoff's "special sauce" you aren't getting anything your body can't handle. Truly uncool.
posted by cCranium at 12:35 PM on March 22, 2001
Come on !! What serious vegetarian is going to set foot into a McDonalds to eat. I do not see that happening. I don't even go there and I am not a vegetarian. The food is absolutely disgusting.
posted by a3matrix at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by a3matrix at 12:39 PM on March 22, 2001
Come on !! What serious vegetarian is going to set foot into a McDonalds to eat. I do not see that happening. I don't even go there and I am not a vegetarian. The food is absolutely disgusting.
Like anapestic said, it's all about the fries.
posted by gleemax at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2001
Like anapestic said, it's all about the fries.
posted by gleemax at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2001
Gimme a break. Do you think we vegetarians travel with a salad in our backpack at all times? Sometimes you're out, sometimes you're hungry, you see a McDonalds. Whoah, they have food don't they? True, it's not delicious or healthful but you CAN get a salad and some fries there. Step back into the real world now.
posted by DeBug at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by DeBug at 1:05 PM on March 22, 2001
As someone who has seriously cut down on almost all of her meat intake, I can uniqivocally state that once your body gets used to not having to digest other animals, it is very difficult to start again.
I work for an interior design company and we had ordered a leather couch from Italy and in a completely stupid mix-up, the couch had been held in customs in Europe because of Mad Cow Disease.
A leather couch that has Mad Cow Disease! I thought it was hilarious...my boss did not.
posted by thacker at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2001
I work for an interior design company and we had ordered a leather couch from Italy and in a completely stupid mix-up, the couch had been held in customs in Europe because of Mad Cow Disease.
A leather couch that has Mad Cow Disease! I thought it was hilarious...my boss did not.
posted by thacker at 1:06 PM on March 22, 2001
Special orders don't upset us.
No offense intended toward the veg crowd, cC. Just noting that fast food can be nasty.
posted by gimli at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2001
No offense intended toward the veg crowd, cC. Just noting that fast food can be nasty.
posted by gimli at 1:10 PM on March 22, 2001
Vegetarians may not be off the CJD hook. Ok, so I'm no expert. But: my recollection is that the amazing thing about Prions (the infectious agent in Mad Cow disease, scrapie and the human form of BSE -- CJD) is that they're remarkably resistant to destruction.
Combine this with agricultural practices involving 'biosolids' or other animal waste and you get tainted veges.
I'm not positive about the validity of all this. And, I'm slightly skeptical -- if Prions are this infectious and this hard to destroy, wouldn't we (as a society) be alot more infected by now? But, if you believe the hype this could be a big big deal...
posted by daver at 2:10 PM on March 22, 2001
Combine this with agricultural practices involving 'biosolids' or other animal waste and you get tainted veges.
I'm not positive about the validity of all this. And, I'm slightly skeptical -- if Prions are this infectious and this hard to destroy, wouldn't we (as a society) be alot more infected by now? But, if you believe the hype this could be a big big deal...
posted by daver at 2:10 PM on March 22, 2001
Mad Cow disease, you're already eating brain of cow at Mcdonald's, along with tongue, ears, tail and let's not forget hoof and mouth ( there's another disease for you ).
Dog food is of a higher grade of meat than Mcdonald's serves.
posted by Zool at 2:17 PM on March 22, 2001
Dog food is of a higher grade of meat than Mcdonald's serves.
posted by Zool at 2:17 PM on March 22, 2001
Long-term vegetarians have died in Britain from vCJD: after all, there aren't that many committed vegetarians in nappies. Not pleasant to consider.
posted by holgate at 2:20 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by holgate at 2:20 PM on March 22, 2001
I think the report is a little off-base. Even if you assume a median incubation of 30 years, you'd still be seeing the number of cases ramp up significantly by now. But confirmed cases are actually declining.
posted by dhartung at 2:22 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by dhartung at 2:22 PM on March 22, 2001
Whoa there - sorry. My bad. The article I posted basically concludes that the vegetarian in question ate beef and had an extended incubation period. Exactly what we're talking about. Whoops.
However, I do recall (and hopefully will find info on) that due to the durability of prions and bad agriculture practices, vegetables may not be prion free...
posted by daver at 2:23 PM on March 22, 2001
However, I do recall (and hopefully will find info on) that due to the durability of prions and bad agriculture practices, vegetables may not be prion free...
posted by daver at 2:23 PM on March 22, 2001
I absolutely agree that dog food is of higher quality than McDonalds meat. I seem to recall mealworm as a filler in their "beef." And there is rumor that the oil the fries are cooked in are full of beef bullion for flavor. So, Vegheads beware what you eat at McDeath. I standby my original statement; No serious veghead is going to eat at McDeath. Probably on the mere principal of the main staple sold there.
posted by a3matrix at 2:29 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by a3matrix at 2:29 PM on March 22, 2001
a3matrix, how about giving us some backup for your exaggerated claims? There is no mealworm added to McDonald's beef, nor is there any bouillon added to the vegetable oil used for fries. I'd provide backup, but there usually isn't any definitive source to state that ludicrous contentions are not true. Just like you probably won't find anything on mexican beer sites stating that there's no urine in their beer. Or perhaps you take the lack of a denial as proof.
posted by anapestic at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by anapestic at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2001
Until 1990, McDonald's used beef tallow in their fries, but then they switched vegetable oil. So based on what I've read, I believe the fries are vegetarian now. There was a great article on French Fries by Malcolm Gladwell in the New Yorker a couple weeks ago, but I can't find the article on his site or theirs. Anyway, it explained all this, and how now they use chemicals to impart that "meaty" flavor into the fries.
As for the principal of eating at McDonald's and vegetarianism: not all vegetarians shun meat for moral reasons. For me it's about health more than anything else. I don't feel well when I eat meat, and I don't like how it's handled and pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. I do eat at McDonald's occasionally. Mostly, like DeBug says, when there's nothing else available and I'm hungry.
posted by megnut at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2001
As for the principal of eating at McDonald's and vegetarianism: not all vegetarians shun meat for moral reasons. For me it's about health more than anything else. I don't feel well when I eat meat, and I don't like how it's handled and pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. I do eat at McDonald's occasionally. Mostly, like DeBug says, when there's nothing else available and I'm hungry.
posted by megnut at 2:49 PM on March 22, 2001
Dog food is of a higher grade of meat than Mcdonald's serves.
This is a gross exaggeration (in two senses of the word). No matter how much you dislike McDonalds' food, it is illegal to put "meat by-products" and many of the other contents of dog food in food intended for humans. In any case, no dog food manufacturer would pay more for meat to make dog food than necessary. Certainly they'd never pay enough to make the food fit for humans.
I seem to recall mealworm as a filler in their "beef."
That would only make sense if mealworms weren't actually more expensive than beef.
posted by kindall at 3:17 PM on March 22, 2001
This is a gross exaggeration (in two senses of the word). No matter how much you dislike McDonalds' food, it is illegal to put "meat by-products" and many of the other contents of dog food in food intended for humans. In any case, no dog food manufacturer would pay more for meat to make dog food than necessary. Certainly they'd never pay enough to make the food fit for humans.
I seem to recall mealworm as a filler in their "beef."
That would only make sense if mealworms weren't actually more expensive than beef.
posted by kindall at 3:17 PM on March 22, 2001
There was a great article on French Fries by Malcolm Gladwell in the New Yorker a couple weeks ago, but I can't find the article on his site or theirs.
The article was at http://newyorker.com/FACT/, but it disappeared and I can't find any archive of it. It was a great article, though…it made me want fries. But not just any fries; I wanted the new & improved fries.
posted by gleemax at 4:25 PM on March 22, 2001
The article was at http://newyorker.com/FACT/, but it disappeared and I can't find any archive of it. It was a great article, though…it made me want fries. But not just any fries; I wanted the new & improved fries.
posted by gleemax at 4:25 PM on March 22, 2001
"Why McDonald's Fries Taste So Good" by Eric Schlosser was published in Atlantic Monthly's January 2001 issue. It is no longer available on the web. I think you may have Malcolm Gladwell confused with him (or perhaps he did one too?). Schlosser has published a book called Fast Food Nation.
posted by girlhacker at 4:49 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by girlhacker at 4:49 PM on March 22, 2001
sure it is girlhacker!! megnut is right. and anapestic ought to go buy fast food nation for some quick validation. BTW it's not beef bullion, but highly manipulated, manufactured beef flavor.
posted by donkeysuck at 4:59 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by donkeysuck at 4:59 PM on March 22, 2001
why macdonalds fries taste so good, minus the highlighting for you sensitive-eye-types. ¡vivà el triple post! sorry.
posted by donkeysuck at 5:10 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by donkeysuck at 5:10 PM on March 22, 2001
Just out of curiosity: how many people in this thread are actually from the UK? I am. And the whole prospect of CJD makes me want to jump off of a very tall building.
posted by davidgentle at 5:17 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by davidgentle at 5:17 PM on March 22, 2001
Apparently Schlosser's book contains some really gruesome stuff about the fast-food industry. I find it ironic that the Atlantic chose to excerpt what must be the least shocking and offputting chapter. I mean, who really cares if the flavors in your food are natural or artificial? They're the same chemicals whether they grew inside an organism or were created in a vat. I found that chapter to be utterly fascinating. I was going, "Cool, so that's how my low-carb snack bar tastes like it has peanut butter and jelly in it despite obviously being utterly lacking in fruit of any kind."
posted by kindall at 5:26 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by kindall at 5:26 PM on March 22, 2001
the beef-tallow-replacement flavor in mcdonald's fries does actually have some animal-derived ingredients -- it's not all chemically manufactured. whether or not you consider that vegetarian (I don't, but I'm vegan) is up to you.
at least they still have orange juice!
posted by rabi at 5:43 PM on March 22, 2001
at least they still have orange juice!
posted by rabi at 5:43 PM on March 22, 2001
I'm currently reading Fast Food Nation and I have to say, I'm totally freaked out. I absolutely recommend it though for anyone who's wondering what's going on with corporations, fast food, and the food supply chain.
posted by megnut at 5:45 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by megnut at 5:45 PM on March 22, 2001
However, I do recall (and hopefully will find info on) that due to the durability of prions and bad agriculture practices, vegetables may not be prion free...
I don't think this is very likely. Plants don't tend to absorb proteins that big from the environment. And if they did uptake a prion, it couldn't replicate. Prions "reproduce" by causing naturally-occuring proteins in the brain to misfold and become prions themselves. Plants wouldn't have the normal proteins to begin with. Hence, no prions in your veggies.
posted by shylock at 9:07 PM on March 22, 2001
I don't think this is very likely. Plants don't tend to absorb proteins that big from the environment. And if they did uptake a prion, it couldn't replicate. Prions "reproduce" by causing naturally-occuring proteins in the brain to misfold and become prions themselves. Plants wouldn't have the normal proteins to begin with. Hence, no prions in your veggies.
posted by shylock at 9:07 PM on March 22, 2001
starduck:
>working at mcdonald's has to be the EASIEST job out there
perhaps you've never worked at a respectable fast food establishment ... never had to deal with abusive, lying, cheating customers, horny managers (not always a bad thing), imbecilic coworkers, drive-through times (greet, take cash, make change, throw food in < 30 seconds) ... oh yeah, i forgot to mention people like _you_ who think the job is easy and the droves of high school students who trash the dining room when they are released from the zoo for lunch
posted by dukejohnson at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2001
>working at mcdonald's has to be the EASIEST job out there
perhaps you've never worked at a respectable fast food establishment ... never had to deal with abusive, lying, cheating customers, horny managers (not always a bad thing), imbecilic coworkers, drive-through times (greet, take cash, make change, throw food in < 30 seconds) ... oh yeah, i forgot to mention people like _you_ who think the job is easy and the droves of high school students who trash the dining room when they are released from the zoo for lunch
posted by dukejohnson at 10:02 PM on March 22, 2001
Getting vCJD requires having a certain gene sequence. If you don't have the right sequence, you're chances of getting the disease drop off considerably. Matt Ridley talks about vCJD, mad cow disease, and prions in a chapter of his Genome.
posted by shackbar at 10:46 PM on March 22, 2001
posted by shackbar at 10:46 PM on March 22, 2001
Malcolm Gladwell's The Trouble with Fries. Still available. Yes, it's building on Schlosser's work.
posted by dhartung at 1:44 AM on March 23, 2001
posted by dhartung at 1:44 AM on March 23, 2001
Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. The prions aren't in the plants. They're ON the plants. I'm not implying they're incorporated into plant material as much as I'm implying that it'd be possible to get prion contaminated material in either processed but-not-well-washed plant material, or in yer regular old produce from the grocery store that doesn't get a very good scrubbing.
Prions are tricky because what we normally think will kill infectious agents (like boiling in a soup pot for an hour or two) isn't necessarily effective against them.
So throw a turnip in your soup w/ a bit of 'dirt' on it containing fertilizer material and 30 years later: viola! vCJD.
Ok, I may be reaching a bit. I don't have a big vested interest in this, it's just a prion vector I heard about some time ago and can't backup. I'd love to be wrong, since I've made quite a bit of soup recently.
posted by daver at 9:50 AM on March 23, 2001
Prions are tricky because what we normally think will kill infectious agents (like boiling in a soup pot for an hour or two) isn't necessarily effective against them.
So throw a turnip in your soup w/ a bit of 'dirt' on it containing fertilizer material and 30 years later: viola! vCJD.
Ok, I may be reaching a bit. I don't have a big vested interest in this, it's just a prion vector I heard about some time ago and can't backup. I'd love to be wrong, since I've made quite a bit of soup recently.
posted by daver at 9:50 AM on March 23, 2001
The prions aren't in the plants. They're ON the plants.
In which case they can be washed off, no? Or are prions, inherently, really sticky?
posted by kindall at 3:47 AM on March 24, 2001
In which case they can be washed off, no? Or are prions, inherently, really sticky?
posted by kindall at 3:47 AM on March 24, 2001
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