Comments on: History for sale

History for sale

TNLNYC — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:34:54 -0800

The Magna Carta is up for sale. The document that established many of the rights we now take for granted (and had a secret history discussed earlier on MeFi) is slated to sell for 20-30 million. Interestingly enough, while it has been on display in the US national archives, it was actually owned by Ross Perot.

By: Poolio

Poolio — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:37:07 -0800

It's just a goddamned piece of paper!

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:39:10 -0800

The Magna Carta is not a suicide pact.

By: phaedon

phaedon — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:40:09 -0800

How much you think one of my Magna Fartas would go for?

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:40:25 -0800

I had no idea Ross Perot liked anime.

By: p3on

p3on — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:40:36 -0800

Strange. I would've assumed the UK gov't owns it ¯\(º_o)/¯

By: Poolio

Poolio — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:42:24 -0800

Strange. I would've assumed the UK gov't owns it From the NY Times article (1st link):

It is the only copy in the United States and the only copy in private hands. Sotheby's says the 16 others are owned by the British or Australian governments or by ecclesiastical or educational institutions in England.

By: pompomtom

pompomtom — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:50:54 -0800

It's not the Magna Carta, it's a 1297 copy.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:58:30 -0800

Phew!

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:04:49 -0800

Magna Carta is not a single document but a variety of documents referred to under a common name. There is no the Magna Carta - several copies were made in 1215, but none of them were signed by King John - if he did sign or seal a copy, it probably no longer exists. A few of the 1215 copies are extant, and there are many later versions from 1216, 1217 and 1225. Ross Perot has a version from 1297. It's content changed with each version.

By: dorian

dorian — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:06:48 -0800

Camelot! Camelot! Camelot! it's only a model

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:09:52 -0800

I hear you can get a deal on a job lot with the Constitution and habeas corpus thrown in, all to the highest bidder.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:10:09 -0800

Another reason there is no the Magna Carta is because there is no definite article in Latin.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:18:59 -0800

try telling that to the hoi polloi, stbalbach.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:24:21 -0800

The Magna Carta is up for sale? What a coincidence! So's the Constitution!

By: quin

quin — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:37:59 -0800

Though in a kinda weird way, you have to give Perot some credit for spending cash on such an important piece of US history. I mean, how many other wannabe politicians can lay claim to owning such a valuable piece of our heritage? At the same time, however, you have to acknowledge the awesome sorta stalker vibe that comes off anyone who failed a presidential campaign, only to start buying up the documents which make our country, Our County.

By: mattbucher

mattbucher — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:38:06 -0800

1. Get King John to sign the Magna Carta 2. Subtly inform Ross Perot 3. ?????? 4. Profit!

By: salvia

salvia — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:40:44 -0800

Democracy's for sale to the highest bidder? What else is new? (or, I agree with the BitterOldPunk)

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:45:10 -0800

I find it fascinating that the family Perot bought it from has had it since the Middle Ages. Christ, my family can't even remember the turkey recipe from one year to the next.

By: Poolio

Poolio — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:47:01 -0800

The Magna Carta is up for sale? What a coincidence! So's the Constitution! I shorted the Constitution at it's high when the markets reopened on September 14, 2001.

By: nasreddin

nasreddin — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:48:26 -0800

At the same time, however, you have to acknowledge the awesome sorta stalker vibe that comes off anyone who failed a presidential campaign, only to start buying up the documents which make our country, Our County. On the night of October 19, 2009, our country will come back from school to find that someone had filled its room with flowers and teddy bears.

By: dgbellak

dgbellak — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 21:48:46 -0800

Anybody else reminded of the "Art Sale" segment of Amazon Women on the Moon? Has anybody else seen Amazon Women on the Moon?

By: dersins

dersins — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:09:55 -0800

try telling that to the hoi polloi, stbalbach. that would be funnier if "hoi polloi" weren't greek.

By: growabrain

growabrain — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:15:49 -0800

"All they told me was: 'David Redden is selling this really important document, the most important document of all. Can you give up this room for us?' " he recalled. "And I'm like, 'Sure, but what is he selling, the Magna Carta?' "

By: Iron Rat

Iron Rat — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:17:42 -0800

Perhaps if we all chipped in we could get it. Then mathowie could say " I have the Magna Carta, in my pants.

By: aeschenkarnos

aeschenkarnos — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:36:39 -0800

At the same time, however, you have to acknowledge the awesome sorta stalker vibe that comes off anyone who failed a presidential campaign, only to start buying up the documents which make our country, Our County. Well yes, but it seems Perot had already bought this copy of the Magna Carta, and is now selling it. Perhaps Rupert Murdoch will buy it, unless he feels he owns it already.

By: Poolio

Poolio — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:49:36 -0800

Perhaps Rupert Murdoch will buy it, unless he feels he owns it already. Better to let a liberal *Soros* buy it and then attack him in the Wall St. Journal.

By: wilful

wilful — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:11:24 -0800

I wouldn't suggest that Magna Carta is about democracy, it's more about powerful barons getting their way over a weakened king. But it was a start I guess.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:50:02 -0800

that would be funnier if "hoi polloi" weren't greek. you know, i really must get around to programming that hotkey that automatically posts "americans just don't get irony". it is precisely because it's greek that it's funny. unwashed masses, ignorance, presence/absence of definite article, self-referential irony of using "the the" when purporting to be educated & criticising the ignoramuses, and with "mistaking" greek for latin as the icing on the cake. now that i've had to explain it, though, the humour is dead for me. thanks a bunch, joke-murderer.

By: Phanx

Phanx — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 23:59:28 -0800

none of them were signed by King John You're quite right, of course, stbalbach, but incidentally I wonder whether anyone signed documents at that time? Certainly in the case of the king, I should guess he didn't do anything to certify Magna Carta beyond perhaps raising his hand and saying "Li reis le veult" or whatever the appropriate formula in bastardised London legal Norman French might have been? Would he even have sealed it himself or left that to a functionary?

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:21:15 -0800

Though in a kinda weird way, you have to give Perot some credit for spending cash on such an important piece of US history. Indeed, but how can any American rest while knowing that the Bayeux Tapestry remains in the hands of foreigners? This is a critical piece of the proud US heritage, commemorating the victory of the US army led by William the Conquerer over the tyranical Harold, Earl of Wessex and as such, it obviously belongs in the Smithsonian, not some vile French cathedral.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:31:10 -0800

It's just a goddamned piece of paper! The Magna Carta was just a paper The Gutenberg Bible? Just a paper The Mona Lisa? Just a paper Declaration of Independence? Just a paper The Constitution? Just a paper The Kyoto Agreement was just a paper The Next Big Thing is just a paper

By: blenderfish

blenderfish — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:24:18 -0800

The Great Pyramid of Giza? Just a paper

By: zemblamatic

zemblamatic — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 02:33:06 -0800

I am going to start a campaign in the UK to repatriate the other copies of Magna Carta back to the US. The fact that we have such important artefacts of your history is a crime. I also have a rather fine bridge in central London I would be prepared to sell for a modest consideration.

By: MtDewd

MtDewd — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 03:28:50 -0800

...stalker vibe that comes off anyone who failed a presidential campaign, only to start buying up the documents which make our country... He bought it in 1984.

By: Fuzzy Monster

Fuzzy Monster — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:31:44 -0800

I was going to buy the Magna Carta, but then Steve Wynn put his elbow through it.

By: Uther Bentrazor

Uther Bentrazor — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:37:58 -0800

Great, now we're going to have to change the history books so all the children learn about how the rights of kings were limited by the Golden Palace Magic Paper and Drink Menu

By: grubby

grubby — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 05:47:34 -0800

PeterMcDermott : The Gutenberg Bible? Just a paper The Mona Lisa? Just a paper Declaration of Independence? Just a paper The Constitution? Just a paper The Kyoto Agreement was just a paper The Next Big Thing is just a paper - is that LCD Soundsystem?

By: languagehat

languagehat — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:13:20 -0800

Magna Carta is not a single document but a variety of documents referred to under a common name. There is no the Magna Carta - several copies were made in 1215, but none of them were signed by King John - if he did sign or seal a copy, it probably no longer exists. A few of the 1215 copies are extant, and there are many later versions from 1216, 1217 and 1225. Ross Perot has a version from 1297. It's content changed with each version. If I knew this, I'd completely forgotten. Thanks for this educational thread! And I too agree with BitterOldPunk.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:24:57 -0800

what is wrong with you people? BitterOldPunk's comment was fantastic, except for the fact that Abiezer made the exact same joke fifteen minutes earlier.

By: any major dude

any major dude — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:40:36 -0800

what really disgusts me about this world is that we value objects more than the ideas expressed in those objects. George W Bush will go on and on in a speech about freedom and our revered Constitution but walk out the door and figuratively shit all over the ideas with his actions. I place no value on talk or material goods - I value actions and actions alone.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:57:08 -0800

Would he even have sealed it himself or left that to a functionary? He used something called the Great Seal of the Realm, imprinted in wax. This was common for example the Papacy had the "Papal Bull" which was sealed with a "bulla", which is Latin for "seal". It derives from ancient observers who thought it looked like a bubble floating on water: Latin bullire, "to boil". When John met the barons on the field of Runnymead he didn't seal Magna Carta but rather the "Articles of the Barons", a sort of proto-Magna Carta. A month later Magna Carta was drawn up but it's unknown if he personally sealed it or even read it, although it is supposed a seal was made (although the copy doesn't exist).

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:12:43 -0800

- is that LCD Soundsystem? It's virtually the Metafilter theme song these days. Dan le Sac vs Scroobius Pip chrismear

By: quin

quin — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 07:42:49 -0800

The Mona Lisa? Just a paper Technically the Mona Lisa is painted on a piece of poplar, not paper.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:06:03 -0800

Back when Bush was just funny and not scary, I remember great mirth around our circle of friends just from invoking his stilted "Magna...Carter."

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:41:20 -0800

UbuRoivas: You're right. I missed Abiezer's comment when I made mine. Mea culpa! I get points for pithiness, though.

By: dersins

dersins — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:21:31 -0800

you know, i really must get around to programming that hotkey that automatically posts "americans just don't get irony". My scripting skills are so negligible as to be non-existent, so when you do get around to that, will you do me a favor and program one for me that automatically posts "It's always funny when citizens of Commonwealth countries claim they were being ironic every time they make a mistake"? tia.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:35:35 -0800

Thanks for posting this, TNLNYC, and for reminding me of that previous post.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:11:53 -0800

I place no value on talk or material goods - I value actions and actions alone. I'll give you ten dollars for your house.

By: nax

nax — Wed, 26 Sep 2007 13:27:55 -0800

the Texas billionaire Ross Perot, who bought it in 1984 for $1.5 million. He out-bid me by ONE dollar. I was so pissed.