The Right (wing) to Voice an Opinion
October 3, 2007 11:53 AM   Subscribe

Clear Channel backs Rush Limbaugh regarding his comment about troops who speak out against the war as being "phony soldiers." Clear Channel CEO Mark P. Mays said in a letter to Rep. Harry Reid: "While I certainly do not agree with all views that are voiced on our stations, I will not condemn our talent for exercising their right to voice them," Mays wrote. This appears to be a flip-flop from when Clear Channel blacklisted the Dixie Chicks.
posted by CameraObscura (77 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

 
Wait, Clear Channel, a Texas company with long ties to the Republican party, has a double-standard regarding political speech?
posted by klangklangston at 11:56 AM on October 3, 2007 [6 favorites]


What peculiar behavior for soulless profit machine.
posted by four panels at 11:58 AM on October 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Our talent? Are we sure they were talking about the same person?
posted by Big_B at 12:02 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Please stop trying to make Rush a martyr.
Just look at G. Gordon Liddy and Oliver North - they've been convicted of felonies and shown to be traitors and they're held up as heroes to the christofacists.
Expose him for the lying, cowardly scum he is and move on.
posted by 2sheets at 12:03 PM on October 3, 2007


Well, I think Clear Channel is doing the right thing here, even if they're presumably doing it for the wrong reasons.
posted by hattifattener at 12:06 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


the difference between rush and a bottle of pills is a bottle of pills can be made to rattle on endlessly

oh, wait - there isn't a difference

sorry
posted by pyramid termite at 12:07 PM on October 3, 2007 [9 favorites]


MarkPMays@clearchannel.com
posted by NorthernLite at 12:09 PM on October 3, 2007


What peculiar behavior for soulless profit machine.

Yep, it's about the bottom line. Rush makes CC money. At the time, blacklisting the Dixie Chicks made CC money. They are not interested in morality, they are interested in making money.
posted by billysumday at 12:11 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


klangklangston has it. Plus, Republicans are less likely to interfere with certain big business policies that Clear Channel has benefited from.

Double standard indeed, but all we can do is point out the hypocrisy. If shareholders disagree, they can sell off.
posted by cmgonzalez at 12:11 PM on October 3, 2007


derail/pet peevishness: I'm sick of people (particularly the left) using "flip-flopper." It sounded stupid when people were trying to crucify Kerry with it in 2004, and using it still, particularly when describing the right, sounds childish - sort of an "i'm rubber, you're glue" thing. I dunno, maybe I'm just cranky
posted by dismas at 12:15 PM on October 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


What's most fascinating about this whole situation is that Limbaugh edited the clip of the conversation in question, while claiming it was "the entire transcript". Fox News aired the edited clip, claiming it proved that Media Matters distorted the truth.
posted by null terminated at 12:17 PM on October 3, 2007 [3 favorites]


I will not condemn our talent for exercising their right to voice them

His right to voice them? When did this become about the First Amendment?

The Constitution doesn't guarantee you a right to broadcast on a national radio network. Mays' company owns a communications platform. That platform was used to spew hate and misinformation. Why wouldn't you want that dealt with?

Oh right. Because hate and misinformation is part of the business model.
posted by PlusDistance at 12:21 PM on October 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Yeah, Clear Channel sucks and all, and I hate to be within leagues of supporting Rush Limbaugh, but well... I think Mark Mays is making the right decision here. That's not to say that he's made the right decisions in the past, nor that he's making it for the right reasons (fire Limbaugh? That'd be a great way for Clear Channel to lose 10% of the value of their stock overnight), but I think it's a good decision nonetheless.

Firing radio hosts for what they say is idiotic. I'm going to come down on the side of less censorship with regards to broadcast media almost all the time. If you don't like what Rush says, fine. Don't listen to his show. Don't buy the products that he hawks. In fact, go out of your way to support opposing views. Just don't try and say that he shouldn't have a show because he's got unpopular opinions.
posted by god hates math at 12:24 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


It was lame when Congress was wasting our tax dollars condemning moveon.org, and it's lame now too. Get on with the business of stopping this war, Senator Reid, and stop playing these pointless games.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 12:27 PM on October 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


Lucky for Rush he didn't call Rep. Murtha a "nappy-headed ho."
posted by notyou at 12:30 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Clear Channel never blacklisted Dixie Chicks... while individual radio stations (non CC and CC) chose to stop playing DC, that was the local station music director's prerogative.
posted by cavalier at 12:30 PM on October 3, 2007


Hit submit too soon. The article you reference is the local Jacksonville newspaper decrying the local Jacksoneville director's decision not to play their music.
posted by cavalier at 12:32 PM on October 3, 2007


god hates math writes "that'd be a great way for Clear Channel to lose 10% of the value of their stock overnight"

Would it ? I guess R.L. is kept just because they want to look like they have a competition for Howard Stern, except the two target completely different audiences so they are competing for what, different audiences ? That's hardly competition, imho.

Yet I agree that R.L. is somehow still a brand that will be milked up to his retirement, but maybe is time to move his audience to another host.
posted by elpapacito at 12:36 PM on October 3, 2007


So, what, congress isn't going to pass a resolution condemning ole Rush? Guess that only works if the republicans are incensed, so much for free speach.
posted by edgeways at 12:46 PM on October 3, 2007


"Would it ? I guess R.L. is kept just because they want to look like they have a competition for Howard Stern, except the two target completely different audiences so they are competing for what, different audiences ? That's hardly competition, imho."

A few things.

1. You're wrong and you're right about the competition aspect. Rush isn't exactly competing for listeners with Howard Stern. Like you said, two different target audiences, even different mediums of broadcast (satellite vs. terrestrial radio). They are, however, competing in terms of "headspace." It's something that a lot of broadcast media program directors are thinking about lately, as it becomes a lot easier for consumers to get content.

2. They keep Rush because he makes them buckets of money. He's got one of the consistently highest-rated shows on the air, and commands a fine price from stations to syndicate it. As soon as he becomes unprofitable, it'll be another story entirely. (as an aside, the general opinion in the radio world is that Imus wasn't dumped because of what he said - that was an excuse to end his contract early because his show had horrible ratings. They obviously didn't get out as cheaply as they'd hoped for, but still...)

3. If they did dump Rush, they'd take a stock hit, that's for sure. I do think they'd recover, though - Rush is already on the decline. His numbers are falling nationwide, with a lot of listeners moving to Hannity, Savage, and other loudmouthed jerks. For now, though, he's King of the Castle.
posted by god hates math at 1:00 PM on October 3, 2007


The bit about the Dixie Chicks just isn't true. Here are the details.
posted by rush at 1:02 PM on October 3, 2007


why Rush is awesome and his critics suck:
"Talent on loan from God" — for all its insight, passion, and biting satire — has a hallmark notably absent from the other side’s one-note polemics: unfailing civility.
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:03 PM on October 3, 2007


The votevets ad

and Rush's response, (even more than usually stunningly tasteless, given that the guy was actually hit by a suicide bomber)

"This is such a blatant use of a valiant combat veteran, lying to him about what I said and then strapping those lies to his belt, sending him out via the media and a TV ad to walk into as many people as he can walk into. This man will always be a hero to this country with everyone. Whoever pumped him full of these lies about what I said and embarrassed him with this ad has betrayed him, they aren't hurting me they are betraying this soldier."
posted by CunningLinguist at 1:05 PM on October 3, 2007


I despise Limbaugh's politics and his eagerness to spread misinformation on behalf of his party as much as the next guy, but I must chime in with god hates math. Everyone in the country should be able to say whatever wrong-ass bullshit they want. If their job is talking on the radio, they should get to say their wrong-ass bullshit on the radio. The antidote is we pointing out what's wrong with what they say, more loudly, more clearly, and with appropriate passion -- not shutting them up.
posted by damehex at 1:06 PM on October 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


"Talent on loan from God" — for all its insight, passion, and biting satire — has a hallmark notably absent from the other side’s one-note polemics: unfailing civility.

Like how he spent the 90's calling Chelsea Clinton ugly.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:08 PM on October 3, 2007 [4 favorites]


The fact that the Rush Limbaugh show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio is the real crime. Armed Forces Radio is taxpayer funded. Gen. Wesley Clark has started an email campaign to let congress know that you don't want your tax dollars supporting the R.L. show.
posted by Sailormom at 1:08 PM on October 3, 2007


I despise Limbaugh's politics and his eagerness to spread misinformation on behalf of his party as much as the next guy, but I must chime in with god hates math. Everyone in the country should be able to say whatever wrong-ass bullshit they want. If their job is talking on the radio, they should get to say their wrong-ass bullshit on the radio. The antidote is we pointing out what's wrong with what they say, more loudly, more clearly, and with appropriate passion -- not shutting them up.

As long as Carlin's words remain verboten, those in favor of such censorship get to live their own filth being censored.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:09 PM on October 3, 2007


It's funny how everyone is talking about "misinformation" from Rush when the FPP is exactly that when it talks about Clear Channel blacklisting the Dixie Chicks...
posted by tadellin at 1:13 PM on October 3, 2007


Media pimp supports media whore. Film at 11.
posted by papakwanz at 1:15 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


It's funny how everyone is talking about "misinformation" from Rush when the FPP is exactly that when it talks about Clear Channel blacklisting the Dixie Chicks...

And that's already been pointed out and accepted. Do you have a point or are you drive-by threadshitting like usual?
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:16 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


The fact that the Rush Limbaugh show is broadcast on Armed Forces Radio is the real crime.

If that's what servicepeople -- them being the market for AFR -- want to listen to, then that's what ought to be on. The military tends to be filled with a lot of politically conservative people, and it wouldn't surprise me if Limbaugh's program has decent ratings there.

Now, if Limbaugh is on AFR, even though it's not popular, and AFR's listener-ship would really prefer something else on in that timeslot, then there's a problem.
posted by Kadin2048 at 1:21 PM on October 3, 2007


has a hallmark notably absent from the other side’s one-note polemics: unfailing civility.

i'm not sure unfailing civility in the face of unrelenting moral obscenity is a virtue
posted by pyramid termite at 1:40 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Limbaugh Offers Inconsistent Explanations For "Phony Soldiers" Comment.
posted by ericb at 1:44 PM on October 3, 2007


Limbaugh Complains Press Didn’t Call Him For Comment, Then Ignores MSNBC’s Call For Comment .
posted by ericb at 1:48 PM on October 3, 2007


eat some more pills, pill-head!
posted by quarter waters and a bag of chips at 2:02 PM on October 3, 2007


This whole democrat/republican bullshit is really starting to remind of the rap feud of the '90s between east and west coasts. In the sense that it is not based in reality. And Rush a biter for using the "phony rapper" line and applying it soldiers..
posted by phaedon at 2:25 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


“if Limbaugh is on AFR, even though it's not popular, and AFR's listener-ship would really prefer something else on in that timeslot, then there's a problem.”

It’s a problem similar to the government giving charity money to select churches because “they’re the only one’s out there.” Most military folks are conservative the way I’m conservative, not the way Limbaugh is “conservative.” Pragmatists for the most part. Who the hell wants to be agitated by some loudmouth of whatever politics on the radio while you’re trying to work?
Bit more Paul Harvey type stuff. Kinda mellow, homey. More pure entertainment.

“Expose him for the lying, cowardly scum he is and move on.”

Agreed. It’s the moving on part I have a problem with. I’m so fucking tired of asshats who attack vets and the troops whenever they don’t toe whatever line is being laid down.

Freedom of speech, sure. No ‘buts’ or qualifiers there at all.

It is however completely despicable that a filthy draft dodging broke dick drug addict like that disparage anyone’s service because their opinion doesn’t align with his.
And it’s not the first time he’s done this. He’s questioned the service of people who weren’t “on the front lines” as though their contribution or duty was somehow less. Perhaps there can be distinctions made. But not from without. And certainly not like that. I’m a vet and I was wounded and I don’t consider the men and women who spent time away from their families and sacrificed what they had as any “less” than what I’ve done. (Hell, I couldn’t have done anything without that support. No such thing as Rambo)

Now, one can argue with an opinion, one can disagree with someone who supports or opposes the war based on the merits of their argument without calling into question or castigating their character. And indeed, there is no political or religious standard required to serve one’s country. One must in fact put one’s own opinion aside when one does serve.
That service, if honorable, is, like the first amendment, in principle, inviolate.
It stands on its own, as a matter of service to the country, whether it’s John Kerry or John McCain, despite the terms - as with the subject matter of the first amendment.

It’s as hypocritical to deny the validity of duty done on behalf of the country because one’s views differ, as it is to deny someone the right to speak freely because of their choice of subject matter.
Certainly Limbaugh has the right to say whatever he wishes, I can similarly say his mother sucked dick in the street for 50 cents a day.

No one’s denying he can say what he wishes, the vehemence in the disagreement is over the matter of what he said, as much as it would be if I had my own show and continually referred to his mother as a whore.

However Limbaugh’s schtick is worse. It insinuates that everyone’s service is up for grabs, can be redefined and recast in political perspective at will. It’s as if I said in insulting Limbaugh’s mother that everyone’s mothers everywhere were potentially whores if they don’t agree with my terms.
It’s the same crap they did to Kerry insinuating that his purple hearts were not honestly gained - that tarnished the medal and cast into question the valor of everyone who earned one.

I am absolutely appalled that anyone would support Limbaugh in any way. He is a thoroughly despicable human being.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:26 PM on October 3, 2007 [6 favorites]


damehex If their job is talking on the radio, they should get to say their wrong-ass bullshit on the radio. The antidote is we pointing out what's wrong with what they say, more loudly, more clearly, and with appropriate passion -- not shutting them up.

The trouble is that that won't achieve anything. These are people who will enthusiastically insist "TWO PLUS TWO IS FIVE!" and no matter what overwhelming proof otherwise you show to them, they will sneer at you and call you a "four-er" and keep yelling "TWO PLUS TWO IS FIVE!".

I think (I would love to be proven wrong) that there is no way to engage these guys with rationality and facts; they're not standing on that battlefield to be engaged there.

Smedleyman I am absolutely appalled that anyone would support Limbaugh in any way. He is a thoroughly despicable human being.

Yes. But what should be done about it?
posted by aeschenkarnos at 2:38 PM on October 3, 2007 [2 favorites]


aeschenkarnos, I gotta go with god hates math and damehex. It’s cliche’ but the answer to free speech you don’t like is more free speech. I’m going to be speaking to members of the VFW and American Legion as well as writing letters to (and boycotting, and encouraging others to do so) his sponsors.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:03 PM on October 3, 2007


As has been said a few times above, this has nothing whatsoever to do with freedom of speech or "censorship." No one is entitled to any particular platform for airing their free speech, and censorship is not the same thing as firing someone who works for you.

Rush called a good number of our bravest fighting women and men "phonies." It was utterly hypocritical given the "supporting the troops means supporting the war" rhetoric he has mouthed on behalf of the administration for years. It was an insult to the very soldiers we are all expected to "support," and of the worst kind (even more so his subsequent comments). All this from a lying, draft-dodging, drug-addicted pussy.

Fire Clear Channel. We need a concerted movement to boycott their stations. If 60-70 percent of Americans oppose this war now, and nearly all Americans "support the troops," it should not be hard to identify 10 million people who will stop listening to CC, stop buying from their advertisers, etc. Is there a good online resource to organize, listing CC's stations and giving addresses and contact info for major advertisers? MediaMatters is a start, but there must be other boycott CC efforts underway.

No one is free to slander other people, either, service persons or not. And that is what Limbauh just did. The most important thing is that his listeners *hear* the proper facts here and especially *see* the VoteVets ad, which I have just donated $$ to support.
posted by spitbull at 3:48 PM on October 3, 2007


i agree with most everything you said, god hates math, except, Just don't try and say that he shouldn't have a show because he's got unpopular opinions. his opinions *might* be unpopular here, but the thing that scares the bejesus out of me is that i believe rush does have popular opinions--VERY popular opinions. remember, he's a citizen of the same country that voted bush into office not once, but twice, and i fear that were it not for term limitations, we'd be stuck with him yet again for 4 more years.
i think it's actually kind of pathetic that he consistently riles up so many people, but then, my blood pressure has gone WAY up the few times i've ever heard him. he's an ass and it's lucky for him that he found a way to make an honest a living.
posted by msconduct at 3:53 PM on October 3, 2007


, one can disagree with someone who supports or opposes the war based on the merits of their argument without calling into question or castigating their character.

Oh, one can indeed. But that exposes one to the risks of genuine engagement -- the weaknesses of your position and the strong points of your opposition's position may become apparent. You can't argue with illogic, and effective character smears shut down an opponent permanently, rather than having to play whack-a-mole with every little logical argument.

Limbaugh couldn't craft effective public policy for an ant farm, and he's very rarely possessed of any insight worth contributing to a national conversation on policy. But he and his ilk aren't stupid and so that's not what they do.
posted by namespan at 3:54 PM on October 3, 2007


Once again the "free market" red herring is used to justify anything a corporation does.

This is not about the free market, it's about good-old fashioned corporate American hypocrisy.

And yes, any American corporation has the precious and dear right to act as hypocritical and evil as possible, God bless their little wicked hearts.

That said, we have every right to point out their hypocrisy. Clear Channel doesn't own the internet... yet.
posted by CameraObscura at 4:03 PM on October 3, 2007


Yes. But what should be done about it?

Oh, I have a dream, I do.

It involves Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and Coulter.

It also involves an industrial wood-chipper.

I'll let you put all the necessary pieces of this puzzle together for yourselves.
posted by quin at 4:08 PM on October 3, 2007


So, let me get this straight: a loathsome, fat, disingenuous junkie neocon apologist who makes his living by lying to scared, gullible old people has finally crossed some sort of line that only Americans care about. Is that the state of play?
posted by chuckdarwin at 4:19 PM on October 3, 2007


This thread makes me feel bad. I'm off to make a cocktail.
posted by rush at 4:32 PM on October 3, 2007


See Quin, I want to give Coulter what she wants. Me (slackjawed liberal that I am) and a baseball bat in her warm little hands in pit somewhere. I give her about ten minutes before she confesses to being the 20th hijacker.

Meanwhile, since if it was linked here I've missed it, here's a “phony” soldier’s response (via Making Light)
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 4:40 PM on October 3, 2007


Notice Limbaugh's drug problems peak when the Republicans power peaked. Think about it.

They had: The Supreme court. Congress. The Administration and many of the state houses and governorships. They got an awesome war against some AY-rabs! It was the pinnacle of the GOP Wet Dream.

And Limbaugh goes on a three state hilly billy heroin spree.

Because he KNEW campaigning and governing are not the same thing and it was only a matter before the incompetency showed.

And there is nobody to COMPLAIN about. And that's his bread and butter: Bitching.

The liberals aren't to blame anymore. Hell. You can only milk so much outrage from Janet Jacksons tit.

That fucker was sooooo happy when the Dems took back the senate he almost got sober.

I predict this. Limbaugh will die soon. They will find his bloated corpse after like four days in the bath tub of some resort hotel somewhere. Somewhere hot. His county fair hog sized heart will have exploded from being saturated with speed balls and oxy. And the underage hooker will have stolen his wallet so nobody will know who he is at first.

Heart attack. Yup. They will say he had a heart attack.
posted by tkchrist at 5:08 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


his opinions *might* be unpopular here, but the thing that scares the bejesus out of me is that i believe rush does have popular opinions--VERY popular opinions.

Yeah, that's true - to a point. His opinions are certainly unpopular here. And while it would be easy to characterize American Conservatives as falling right in line behind him, I know too many old-school rust-belt conservatives that think he's an ass. I'd guess that of his 20 million weekly listeners, there's really only 1 million or so that would follow him into the pit of darkness.
posted by god hates math at 5:10 PM on October 3, 2007


In other news, people still listen to talk radio.

/right behind you, rush
posted by Mr. Gunn at 5:12 PM on October 3, 2007


ummm...that would be this rush, not the one being discussed.
posted by Mr. Gunn at 5:13 PM on October 3, 2007


"phony soldiers" got people's attention, but the fact is Limbaugh says absolutely outrageous shit all the time.

Just watch this clip, in which Rush filled in for fellow conservative Pat Sajak on Sajak's show. The audience revolted, and Limbaugh looked downright frightened. Now you know why he doesn't invite debate on his ridiculous show.
posted by zardoz at 5:29 PM on October 3, 2007


It's a fact that Clear Channel removed Howard Stern from their stations after he did a complete 180 on Bush and the war in Iraq- and claimed it was for "indecency"- even though he had been doing the same schtick for years.
posted by wfc123 at 6:07 PM on October 3, 2007


"phony soldiers" got people's attention, but the fact is Limbaugh says absolutely outrageous shit all the time.

It's an act. He was an apolitical DJ who was going nowhere when Bob Pittman (the man who created Morton Downey Jr.) told him to do the "angry white man" schtick. There is a massive audience for that brand of hate. Ask Bill O'Reilly-- he's been doing the same schtick for nearly a decade now. O'Reilly was just an anchor - hosting "Inside Edition" before the Fox News gig.
posted by wfc123 at 6:12 PM on October 3, 2007 [1 favorite]


Hypocritical Republican assholes.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 6:25 PM on October 3, 2007


I heard he was referring to ONE soldier who WAS lying about his war experience.
posted by konolia at 7:36 PM on October 3, 2007


(I don't usually listen to Rush much so I don't know but that's what I heard.)
posted by konolia at 7:36 PM on October 3, 2007


You can only milk so much outrage from Janet Jacksons tit.

Classic!!!! Har.
posted by Doohickie at 7:59 PM on October 3, 2007


How is it that the guy never fucking NODS. I imagine he fills cereal bowls with OC 80s for breakfast every morning, but he still somehow manages to rant all day. How is he not propped up with his forehead resting on the microphone, a rope of drool connecting his face to the soundboard, and six Clear Channel staffers trying to shake him awake every time he comes off a commercial break? If the man has so much hate that even a tanker truck full of opiates can't take the edge off it, then I have to say that I personally find that pretty fucking impressive.
posted by The Straightener at 8:08 PM on October 3, 2007


Firstly let me say that I HATE ClearChannel
But Mark Mays has got it right here. I do wince at his repetitive use of "talent" referring to Rush, but the fact is the market controls an air talent getting out of line. If a large enough segment of the city, or cities in the case of Rush, wants a head on a platter, they WILL recieve it. That's what happened in the Dixie Chicks fiasco. And I can assure you there were meetings where it was discussed in Promotion departments in local radio stations, both ClearChannel owned and competitors, as a "great promo stunt.

"Hey -bothhh- look! I got us in the Jacksonville Business Journal!"

bet it was mostly red states too...censor censor censor...
posted by bidrattler at 8:09 PM on October 3, 2007


bidrattler writes "But Mark Mays has got it right here. I do wince at his repetitive use of 'talent' referring to Rush, but the fact is the market controls an air talent getting out of line. If a large enough segment of the city, or cities in the case of Rush, wants a head on a platter, they WILL recieve it. That's what happened in the Dixie Chicks fiasco. And I can assure you there were meetings where it was discussed in Promotion departments in local radio stations, both ClearChannel owned and competitors, as a 'great promo stunt. "

Well, in the case of the Dixie Chicks, it's not like they had anything to lose.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:21 PM on October 3, 2007


Just to clarify, what I meant by CC had nothing to lose, they didn't have a contract with the Dixie Chicks and advertisers tied to them.
posted by krinklyfig at 8:22 PM on October 3, 2007


But, dude, Neil Peart's drum solos are fucking AMAZING.
posted by papakwanz at 9:02 PM on October 3, 2007


I heard he goes on sex tours in the Carribean where he takes viagra and screws child prostitutes.

I don't listen to Rush so I don't know but that's what I heard.
posted by homunculus at 9:12 PM on October 3, 2007


I heard he was referring to ONE soldier who WAS lying about his war experience.
posted by konolia at 7:36 PM on October 3 [+] [!]


(I don't usually listen to Rush much so I don't know but that's what I heard.)
posted by konolia at 7:36 PM on October 3 [+] [!]


thank you for sharing that well-informed opinion! there's no moss growing on you!
posted by Hat Maui at 9:54 PM on October 3, 2007


Reminds me of the "self-hating Jew" comments when anyone opposes Israeli actions.
posted by a_green_man at 10:51 PM on October 3, 2007


wfc123 writes "There is a massive audience for that brand of hate. Ask Bill O'Reilly-- he's been doing the same schtick for nearly a decade now."

Well said, it's an act ! Similarly H.S. plays the sexually insecure, horny, apparently misogynist opinionated guy that is all but hateful and bigoted, even if every now and then he spits complicated nonsense.

Whereas RL , BO'R and others tend to put down, vilify, paint people into corners, attack the least fortunate and point at them as despicable, suggesting their are menaces to society such as meth addicts ; while one could argue that not every addict is as dangerous as the other and oxycoton abuse is not the same as meth abuse, I don't get why an addicted person should be treated as THE menace , considering he/she is primarily a menace to self.
posted by elpapacito at 2:38 AM on October 4, 2007


I don't get why an addicted person should be treated as THE menace , considering he/she is primarily a menace to self.

There was a lot of lying and hypocrisy in this case. Rush had repeatedly said that drug users were destroying America, etc. Turns out, he was high while he was saying that!

That sort of thing rubs people the wrong way.
posted by chuckdarwin at 3:49 AM on October 4, 2007


Once again, konolia shows up to shill for the right wing.

He said "phony soldiers." That's plural, with an "s" on the end. So how the f**k do you take that to be a reference to "one soldier" of any particular sort? Go back to church, lady.
posted by spitbull at 4:41 AM on October 4, 2007


I was at the home of a local politician. I got my info from the president of the local women's Republican club. But hey, what dues she know...she's a Giuliani supporter. :-P

(For the record, , I am not a member of said club. )
posted by konolia at 5:51 AM on October 4, 2007


I got my info from the president of the local women's Republican club.

now there's an unimpeachable source for you ...
posted by pyramid termite at 6:07 AM on October 4, 2007


Go back to church, lady.

Go back to kindergarten, Rudy.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 8:49 AM on October 4, 2007


I heard he was referring to ONE soldier who WAS lying about his war experience....I was at the home of a local politician. I got my info from the president of the local women's Republican club. posted by konolia.

Regarding the after-the-fact "only one soldier" retort by Rush and those who follow the GOP talking points, I suggest you read the following (partcularly in regard to FOX ommitting chunks from the official transcrpit -- as already mentioned above by null terminated above).

FACT CHECK: "Phony Soldiers" and Limbaugh's Revisionist History
“As the controversy over Rush Limbaugh's ‘phony soldiers’ comments continues to grow, Media Matters for America would like to highlight the falsehoods that Limbaugh, America's top conservative talk-radio host, has used to claim that he was taken out of context.

Limbaugh claims he referred only to Jesse MacBeth, but smeared other veterans

Misinformation: On September 28, Limbaugh asserted that his ‘phony soldiers’ comment was a reference to Jesse MacBeth, who pleaded guilty to one count of making false statements to the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs for pretending to be an injured Iraq war veteran.

Fact: Limbaugh did not refer to MacBeth during his September 26 broadcast until 1 minute and 50 seconds after making his ‘phony soldiers’ comment. Indeed, at no point during his September 26 radio show did Limbaugh refer to any soldiers he considered to be fake prior to making his ‘phony soldiers’ comment.

Moreover, as the blog Crooks and Liars and Media Matters noted, in the September 28 broadcast, Limbaugh expanded the group of ‘phony soldiers’ to include Vietnam veteran Rep. John P. Murtha (D-PA) and Pvt. Scott Thomas Beauchamp, who is currently serving in Iraq. In asserting that he was originally ‘talking about a genuine phony soldier,’ Limbaugh went on to state: ‘And by the way, Jesse MacBeth's not the only one. How about this guy Scott Thomas who was writing fraudulent, phony things in The New Republic about atrocities he saw that never happened? How about Jack Murtha blanketly accepting the notion that Marines at Haditha engaged in wanton murder of innocent children and civilians?’

According to Murtha's biography on his congressional website, Murtha joined the Marines in 1952 and volunteered for service in Vietnam, where he was awarded the Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts.

Limbaugh claims he was only speaking about one soldier, but used the plural

Misinformation: Limbaugh twice claimed that rather than speaking generally of soldiers who support withdrawal from Iraq, that he was ‘talking about one soldier with that 'phony soldier' comment, Jesse MacBeth.’

Fact: As the transcript makes clear, Limbaugh actually referred to ‘phony soldiers,’ plural. Responding to a caller's statement that supporters of withdrawal ‘like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media,’ Limbaugh responded, ‘The phony soldiers’ [emphasis added].

Limbaugh claims to be a victim of ‘selective’ editing, then aired edited clip and posted edited transcript

Misinformation: Limbaugh further asserted that ‘Media Matters had the transcript, but they selectively choose what they want to make their point.’ To support this claim, Limbaugh purported to air the ‘entire’ segment in question from the September 26 broadcast of his show. Prior to airing the edited clip, Limbaugh said: ‘Here is, it runs about 3 minutes and 13 seconds, the entire transcript, in context, that led to this so-called controversy.’ After the clip ended, Limbaugh stated: ‘That was the transcript from yesterday's program, talking about one phony soldier. The truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose, which is exactly the way the website Media Matters generated this story.’

Fact: In fact, the clip he aired had been edited. Excised from the clip was a full 1 minute and 35 seconds of the 1 minute and 50 second discussion that occurred between Limbaugh's original ‘phony soldiers’ comment and his reference to MacBeth, the full audio of which can be heard here.

Fact: The transcript (subscription required) of the first segment of the first hour of his September 28 broadcast posted on Limbaugh's website, which Limbaugh described as being the ‘anatomy of a smear,’ is also edited and does not make clear how much time elapsed between Limbaugh's ‘phony soldiers’ remark and his discussion of MacBeth -- or even that any time did elapse: Limbaugh's transcript does not provide any notation or ellipsis to indicate that there is, in fact, a break in the transcript of the September 26 clip he used.

More from Media Matters for America ...

Limbaugh falsely recasts ‘phony soldiers’ smear

Rush Limbaugh insisted that his September 26 remarks characterizing U.S. service members who support withdrawal from Iraq as ‘phony soldiers’ had been taken out of context and that he was referring specifically to ‘one genuine, convicted, lying, fake soldier,’ Jesse MacBeth. But Limbaugh did not refer to MacBeth during his September 26 broadcast until 1 minute, 50 seconds after making his ‘phony soldiers’ comment, and at no point on that show prior to making his ‘phony soldiers’ comment did Limbaugh refer to any actual fake soldiers. Additionally, on September 28, Limbaugh misrepresented those comments.

Limbaugh expands group of ‘phony soldiers’ to include Vietnam veteran Murtha

On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh defended his statement characterizing service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as ‘phony soldiers’ and expanded the group of ‘phony soldiers’ to include Vietnam veteran Rep. John P. Murtha.

Limbaugh selectively edited ‘phony soldiers’ clip, claimed it was ‘the entire transcript’

In response to Media Matters' documentation of his recent description of service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as ‘phony soldiers,’ Rush Limbaugh claimed that he had not been talking ‘about the anti-war movement generally,’ but rather ‘about one soldier ... Jesse MacBeth.’ Limbaugh then purported to air the ‘entire’ segment in question. In fact, the clip he aired omitted a full 1 minute and 35 seconds of discussion that occurred between Limbaugh's original ‘phony soldiers’ comment and his subsequent reference to MacBeth.

Like radio show, transcript on RushLimbaugh.com selectively edits his ‘phony soldiers’ comments

Media Matters for America has previously noted how, during the September 28 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, in response to Media Matters' documentation of his recent characterization of service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as ‘phony soldiers,’ Rush Limbaugh selectively edited an audio clip of the September 26 exchange while calling it ‘the entire transcript’ of the segment. Excised from the clip, however, was a full 1 minute and 35 seconds of discussion that occurred between Limbaugh's original ‘phony soldiers’ comment and his subsequent reference to ‘one soldier ... Jesse MacBeth.’ The transcript (subscription required) of the first segment of the first hour of his September 28 broadcast posted on Limbaugh's website does not make clear how much time elapsed between Limbaugh's ‘phony soldiers’ remark and his discussion of MacBeth -- or even that any time did elapse: Limbaugh's transcript does not provide any notation or ellipsis to indicate that there is, in fact, a break in the transcript of the September 26 clip he used.

Members of Congress denounced Limbaugh's ‘phony soldiers’ smear

Summary: Sen. Jim Webb and Reps. Frank Pallone, Jan Schakowsky, Chris Van Hollen, and Patrick Murphy denounced Rush Limbaugh for calling service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq ‘phony soldiers,’ which Media Matters for America documented.

Limbaugh previously called Vietnam veteran Kerry ‘a fraud,’ ‘a total phony’

Summary: Rush Limbaugh's characterization of service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq as ‘phony soldiers’ was not the first time that he has labeled a military service member a ‘phony.’ On his June 27 radio show, Limbaugh said of Sen. John Kerry, whose Vietnam record was the subject of a smear campaign by the discredited Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth: ‘The guy's a fraud! He's a total phony, and people were able to see it!’

Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are ‘phony soldiers’

During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq ‘phony soldiers.’ He made the comment while discussing with a caller a conversation he had with a previous caller, ‘Mike from Chicago,’ who said he ‘used to be military,’ and ‘believe[s] that we should pull out of Iraq.’ Limbaugh told the second caller, whom he identified as ‘Mike, this one from Olympia, Washington,’ that ‘[t]here's a lot’ that people who favor U.S. withdrawal ‘don't understand’ and that when asked why the United States should pull out, their only answer is, ‘ 'Well, we just gotta bring the troops home.' ... 'Save the -- keeps the troops safe' or whatever,’ adding, ‘[I]t's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people.’ ‘Mike’ from Olympia replied, ‘No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media.’ Limbaugh interjected, ‘The phony soldiers.’ The caller, who had earlier said, ‘I am a serving American military, in the Army,’ agreed, replying, ‘The phony soldiers.’”
posted by ericb at 10:54 AM on October 4, 2007


Clear Channel Rejects VoteVets Ad Because It ‘Conflicts’ With Listeners Who Tune Into Rush
"Rush Limbaugh’s hometown radio station that broadcasts his show — WJNO AM in Palm Beach, Florida — has refused to air a VoteVets ad by Brian McGough, the Iraq war veteran who was compared by Limbaugh to a suicide bomber.

John Hunt, the vice president/market manager for Clear Channel in Palm Beach, wrote a letter yesterday explaining his station’s decision not air McGough’s ad. Hunt’s rationale was not that the ad was inaccurate or that it posed legal issues, but rather, the ad presented information that 'would conflict with the listeners who have chosen to listen to Rush Limbaugh.'

Read the full letter here.

Last night on Countdown, McGough issued this challenge to Limbaugh: 'Ask me or any other members of VoteVets.org to come on your program and talk to you and tell you how we feel.' But Limbaugh is desperately trying to hide behind his microphone where he can launch verbal assaults without having to defend them.

In the ad, McGough says, 'Rush Limbaugh called vets like me "phony soldiers" for telling the truth.' He continues:
'Rush, the shrapnel I took to my head, was real. … My belief that we are on the wrong course in Iraq, is real. Until you have the guts to call me a phony soldier to my face, stop telling lies about my service.'"
posted by ericb at 11:00 AM on October 4, 2007


Thanks, ericb.
posted by konolia at 12:05 PM on October 4, 2007


Rush Limbaugh's Probation Almost Over
posted by homunculus at 3:42 PM on October 5, 2007


Standing Up Against The New McCarthyism And Ending The Iraq War
posted by homunculus at 10:36 AM on October 6, 2007


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