Ametrica!

October 17, 2007 4:38 PM

The U.S. is of course one of three countries that still use the English system of measurement, but Amy Wang (originally from metric-system-using Taiwan) won the Adobe Design Achievement Award in Environmental Graphics and Packaging in 2006 for “Ametrica!”, a campaign to get the U.S. to switch to the metric system instead. Whether you’re for or against metrication in America, Wang’s project is fresh and practical. [Via.]
posted by tepidmonkey (128 comments total)

May I be the first to say - go metric America!
posted by Samuel Farrow at 4:42 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

I think the US will break up into its constituent states before metrification.
posted by blacklite at 4:44 PM on October 17, 2007

Maybe that wouldn't be so bad, blacklite.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 4:47 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

I wish we'd go metric. I change all the thermometers I own to display in celsius, just so I can tell people the temp in celsius; then neither of us know what the temperature is.
I suspect it's the ultimate-nerd-rage-against-the-machine.
posted by mrnutty at 4:48 PM on October 17, 2007

It's weird how the US has such good orderly systems for post codes, highway numbering and street number and yet sticks to a batshitinsane measuring system.

Why didn't the US go metric in, say 1880?
posted by sien at 4:49 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

You can take our feet and other assorted units when you pry them from our cold, dead... legs.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:50 PM on October 17, 2007

Again? They were trying to get everyone to go metric in the 70's - we covered it pretty extensively in elementary school - never to use it again.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 4:52 PM on October 17, 2007

Metric roolz.

But for some reason I still think Imperial measurement when talking about peoples' height. And schlong length.

Losing that Mars orbiter was pretty tragic.
posted by uncanny hengeman at 4:52 PM on October 17, 2007

"Many people are unaware of the behind-the-scenes efforts of the metric-Marxists to have the metric system forced into usage."

The anti-metric people are also batshit nuts. Who'd have guessed...
posted by bonecrusher at 4:53 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

Now that I've lived overseas I completely *heart* the metric system. It's so intuitive and user friendly. I know exactly how many meters are in a kilometer thanks to the etymology alone, but how many feet are in a mile? Gimme a sec while I google that.
posted by Brittanie at 4:56 PM on October 17, 2007

I have to say that it is completely obvious that metric is a more logical system, but I'm so steeped in the "english" system that at the age of 32 I just struggle to convert things in my head, even though I know it should be easy. It's inertia. Except for drugs (I no longer indulge in drugs), then it's metric all the way baby, a kilo is a thousand grams!
posted by Divine_Wino at 4:56 PM on October 17, 2007

I'm all about the metric system, but I like how 100F = really hot and 0F = really cold. Makes it easier to remember.
posted by Muffpub at 4:56 PM on October 17, 2007

Well, maybe it's not official, but there were a lot of feet and pounds and certainly pints such last time I was in England. So I think the map is a little exaggerated.
posted by freebird at 4:57 PM on October 17, 2007

Being British I think in meters and miles and kilograms and pounds and stones (for body weight) and pints (drinks) and litres (petrol). But only centigrade when it comes to temperature... As allowing us to keep miles (and I think pints) has recently been written into European law I don't expect them to go any time soon.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 5:02 PM on October 17, 2007

what are the benefits of the metric system?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:03 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

Heck, in England they're still measuring weight in stone.

Anyway, the metric system is, in my considered judgment, icky. Point me to a beautiful song that includes the word "kilometer" and I might possibly think about reconsidering.
posted by washburn at 5:05 PM on October 17, 2007 [3 favorites]

I'm all about the metric system, but I like how 100F = really hot and 0F = really cold. Makes it easier to remember.

But 0C = water freezing and 100C = water boiling. What's easier than that?
posted by mrnutty at 5:05 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

I found this informative, particularly the bit about the decimal inch. In addition to that, much of the older systems of measurement are more... human. A foot is essentially the length of a human foot. The variability of this measurement may have caused some problems, but by and large people knew what a foot was. Same goes for hands, and for weights, ounces could be easily figured out while the distinction between grams less so.

Science requires a standard and the meter was defined as that standard... but that standard is completely arbitrary and not related to any sort of "human" experience.

I don't mind the metric system, but I certainly like how it is used along with the older systems of measurement in my daily life. I tend to use metrics when trying to be more precise, but for day to day living, the English measurements make more sense. Basically, I use both and they work just fine together.
posted by linux at 5:06 PM on October 17, 2007

how many hogsheads to a gigaquad?
posted by blue_beetle at 5:06 PM on October 17, 2007

And here I was all set to make a Mars University reference, but damn it, that was Amy Wong.

I like her idea thought.

It's kind of weird, in guns I prefer to refer to refer the mm of the bore, in distance, I prefer feet, then meters, then miles. In weight, everything is pounds and ounces. When talking about air temperature I use Fahrenheit, when talking about liquids, I prefer Celsius.

I think my brain is broken.
posted by quin at 5:07 PM on October 17, 2007

Truth is that I'm horrible at estimating distance, volume, size, etc, so the fact that I grew up with the Imperial system gives me no reason to want to keep it.

Metric is just as arbitrary as Imperial, but at least its based in powers of ten rather than seemingly random numbers. I'd be just as awful estimating distance, volume, size, etc in metric, so I say go for it.

Besides, most Americans measure the important stuff in metric anyway. Coke comes in 2 or 3 liter bottles, bottled water comes in half liters, and drugs come in grams.

However I think that all the pro-metric people are missing the obvious selling point. It sounds much more impressive to say "yup, my dick is 15 centimeters long" than it does to say six inches. Hell, for the super insecure they could even convert to milimeters, who wouldn't want a 152 milimeter long penis?

Go metric, bragging about penis size is much easier!
posted by sotonohito at 5:08 PM on October 17, 2007

Don't call it the "English system" unless you're going to give me 20 fluid ounces of beer in my pint.
posted by nowonmai at 5:09 PM on October 17, 2007

Yeah my feeling is that someone has to keep the English system so that it still exists for usage in literature. 'Kilogram of flesh' and 'death by centimeters' don't work nearly as well.
posted by shakespeherian at 5:11 PM on October 17, 2007 [3 favorites]

I was surprised when gasoline went above $3/gallon, we didn't have a push for metric. Bush could say gas is just 80 cents a liter! Cheap gas!

When I was a kid there was a big push for metric. I still remember the Saturday morning songs about a meter being a little more than a yard. I also remember gas switching to being sold by the liter the first time the price went above $1/gallon because the old analog pumps couldn't deal with prices above 99.9 cents.

I really wish the US would join the rest of the world and go metric. We can still have pints for beer and yards in football.
posted by birdherder at 5:18 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

It really isn't true to say that the United States doesn't use the metric system. I mean, it isn't as if we outlawed it. We use it when it is necessary or simpler, usually due to a transnational project or a field requirement (scientific fields jump to mind). In addition, most of us under a certain age did have extensive contact with it in school. And what's more, I think Americans accept that it is a sounder system mathematically.

Yet, we still use the English system because for day to day living the metric system offers no advantages. How is buying milk or gas by the liter any better than the gallon? What is the appeal of Celsius? And, like many, I will never accept anything than the Imperial Pint of beer.

I guess what I am trying to say is, lets take pride in our ambidextrous measurement!
posted by boubelium at 5:18 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

metric=eurotrash.
America=Number One!!
posted by Postroad at 5:18 PM on October 17, 2007

The world is being a hypocrite if they're using metric but not using Julian dates. We're never going to be able to transition to Stardates with this 24-hour calendar baloney.
posted by rolypolyman at 5:22 PM on October 17, 2007 [5 favorites]

Beer! An excellent idea.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:23 PM on October 17, 2007

The British kinda half-assed it on conversion to metric - they still use pints and miles. Oh, and stone, which no-one really knows what it equals anyway.

I think in inches...feet...miles. However, I can convert damn quickly. However, when it comes to calculating anything engineering-wise, you'd better bet I'm going metric. BTUs per poundal, oh and you forgot to multiply by the acceleration due to gravity because you were using pounds mass not pounds weight? fuck that, no thank you. Meters per second might not be intuitive, but neither is random conversion factors (that aren't 10) at random places.

In "English" units, to get power, it's force (mass divided by 32.17) times distance, divided by time, times 550. Or was that divided by? And mass is in something called "slugs". In metric, it's FxD/t, still, but no goddamned extra factor to forget.

Apparently it's crypto-marxist to to think that the necessity to divide by 32.17 multiply by 5,252 or 550, add 32 or subtract 459.6 on every. fucking. calculation. is pretty goddamned inefficient.


/ rant
posted by notsnot at 5:26 PM on October 17, 2007

Again? They were trying to get everyone to go metric in the 70's - we covered it pretty extensively in elementary school - never to use it again.

Yup--except for soda bottles, strangely. (i still don't know why it was just them--gallons and quarts of sodas disappeared and were replaced by liters and 2-liter bottles)

We could easily go metric for milk and other liquids, i think. And many bottles and other packages have both on them.
posted by amberglow at 5:28 PM on October 17, 2007

(altho i'd hate to lose inches/feet/pounds for things like height and weight--don't know why tho)
posted by amberglow at 5:30 PM on October 17, 2007

what are the benefits of the metric system?

Everybody else uses it.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 5:30 PM on October 17, 2007

And let's not forget the brilliant DIN paper sizes.
posted by snownoid at 5:32 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

Finally. I have been waiting 2741 centiyears for this.
posted by Eideteker at 5:32 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

I really wish the US would join the rest of the world and go metric.
In a sense the US *has* gone metric, but there is really no way to force US'ians (and their businesses) to go metric. But if you fix your own car, even if it is a Ford, you need metric wrenches now. most packaging is in grams, liters etc., etc. So deep down, American business will (and have) gone metric, but the average joe won't and it will be a quaint quirk, like the way we switch forks, or the way the British drive on teh wrong side of the road.

PS. Illogical is often not enough to change. Think of how illogical English spelling was. This is because there was a large enough cohort of literate English speakers that language reform would impose a huge cost. Contrast that with Turkey, which went from Arabic to Roman lettering because so few were literate. If 99% of English speakers were illiterate, we could change the orthography tomorrow.
posted by xetere at 5:34 PM on October 17, 2007

Why didn't the US go metric in, say 1880?

Because it was invented by them thar cheeze-eatin' surrender monkeys, more'n likely.

Ironically it's called the "Imperial System" which America rebelled against in the (much) larger sense and which she is attempting not to be accused of being herself, in the world-wide political/military today sense. Hmm, I wonder what his highness George II would say about this?

Canada only went half-way on it too: one drives 50 kilometers per hour to the local home center where 4 x 8 foot sheets of plywood may be purchased.
posted by scheptech at 5:44 PM on October 17, 2007

I was surprised when gasoline went above $3/gallon, we didn't have a push for metric. Bush could say gas is just 80 cents a liter! Cheap gas!
posted by birdherder at 7:18 PM on October 17

Strange, I remember something happening just like that once in the late 70's, some jackass gas station advertising what appeared to be gas at half the price of the other stations along the interstate. I was a kid so I don't remember how much it was. I do remember hearing dad say some pretty bad words though when he realized he was getting more or less the opposite of a great deal on his fill-up. That pretty much ended the discussion on the metric system in our house.
posted by mcrandello at 5:49 PM on October 17, 2007

I got as far as the picture of the brown paper bag with the graphic "This bag holds 2kg" before shutting the page.

It would have been infinitely more effective to state how much volume the bag contains rather than the weight it can support. The volume is visual, but the weight is uncertain. I have no idea how much weight a brown paper bag can hold in lbs, so telling it to me in kg is meaningless (yes, I know it's 2.2 lbs per kg).
posted by Pastabagel at 5:50 PM on October 17, 2007 [4 favorites]

My physics lecturer at my university here in Australia would allow students to hand in assignments using non-metric measures, but he would only allow them to use furlongs for distance, fortnights for time, and the stone for weight.
posted by Jerub at 5:52 PM on October 17, 2007 [4 favorites]

Brittanie, since you asked, there are 5 tomatoes in a mile. (5280 feet)

I could never remember before the mnemonic!
posted by misha at 6:14 PM on October 17, 2007

Obligatory Onion article.

Screw the metric system, it might make your life a little more convenient but it isn't the end of the world if the US wants to be different on this.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:18 PM on October 17, 2007

"what are the benefits of the metric system?"

Everybody else uses it.

Which means fewer lost Martian probes.

As my earlier comment indicated, I'm still waiting for them to metricize time. And I'm not sure about Swatch's beat system. Until then, I'll stick to the Mayan calendar, with its equal-sized months and regularity.
posted by Eideteker at 6:19 PM on October 17, 2007

Why didn't the US go metric in, say 1880?

Because by then the metric system was well-entrenched, having been adopted by law in 1866.

There's a chart that can be had of when countries adopted SI, but as noted there are different levels of adoption. Even non-metric America has quite a few things that come in metric units, like liquor and larger soda bottles, and many industrial measurements are done only in metric due to export necessities. And there are places like nominally fully-metric England where there is great popular resistance in certain usage domains, like the legendary greengrocer rebelling against EU rules.

In any case, I've often wondered why the beverage industry was one of the few to make the wholesale leap to metric -- or rather, whether it proved too costly or problematic for other industries to follow suit.
posted by dhartung at 6:27 PM on October 17, 2007

what are the benefits of the metric system?

International and scientific (even in the States) standard.

Base 10.

They use it on Star Trek.
posted by juiceCake at 6:31 PM on October 17, 2007

I actually use meters for lots of basic measurements, ever since taking physics in high school As far as other units of measurement, who cares? I mean, if you're not doing something scientific it hardly matters.

I mean how often in your life do you really need to measure things at anything other then order of magnitude level? For me, I think it's probably just driving distance, driving time and the amount of fuel to do it. Miles per hour are convent, because you can estimate about a mile per minute on the highway.

I guess I'm pretty sensitive to temperature changes. I could probably tell what temperature it was to about five degrees Fahrenheit maybe, and that leaves me with a pretty strong sense of numeric values for 'hot' and 'cold' and everything in between in Fahrenheit. But it's not anything I need to be too precise about.

As far as pounds, liters, gallons, who cares? You can pretty much eyeball how much you are going to need for things, and you don't need a scale to tell if you are going to be able to lift something comfortably.
posted by delmoi at 6:32 PM on October 17, 2007

What is the metric unit for Lines of Code?
posted by b1tr0t at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2007

If the English system keeps terrorists from driving their trains on our tracks, I'm all for it.
posted by ogre at 6:33 PM on October 17, 2007

Someone needs to do a cost/benefit analysis of this.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:41 PM on October 17, 2007

And millions of American potheads have long since mastered the gram/ounce conversion. The systems are complementary.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 6:45 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

Until then, I'll stick to the Mayan calendar, with its equal-sized months and regularity.

Isn't that the one where the world ends pretty soon?

As far as pounds, liters, gallons, who cares? You can pretty much eyeball how much you are going to need for things, and you don't need a scale to tell if you are going to be able to lift something comfortably.
It's hard to switch for some things tho--I had to learn how to order cold cuts and things in stores in Europe when i wanted to make a picnic lunch -- it's not like you can say "a quarter pound" or "half a pound" of prosciutto or cheese or whatever-it's "100 grams" or "200 grams", etc, and i had no clue how much that actually was, in terms of the amount of food--not counting the language problems. (100 grams seemed to be less than a 1/4 pound, to me, and it would be even harder to order for a big meal or for multiple meals, i guess. We know these sorts of things so thoroughly it's barely conscious thinking--a 1/4 pound of salami makes a nice big sandwich or 2 small ones, a 12-pound turkey feeds this many people, etc)
posted by amberglow at 6:48 PM on October 17, 2007

Someone needs to do a cost/benefit analysis of this.

Cost: $1.42
Benefit: €1.00
posted by furiousxgeorge at 6:49 PM on October 17, 2007 [4 favorites]

We'll never convert because every cook would have to buy a scale to make anything. And "kilo cake" tastes like crap, anyway.
posted by Ella Fynoe at 6:50 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

This world ends and the next begins. But yeah, they used a concept we might more readily equate with "era" or "epoch". Wikipedia. The apocalyptic aspect comes from paleface new-agey exuberant misinterpretation.
posted by Eideteker at 6:53 PM on October 17, 2007

good to hear, Eide : >

so, we're moving from the Stupid and Deadly Ages to the ?
posted by amberglow at 6:58 PM on October 17, 2007

When is the rest of the world going to get with the picture and embrace feet and inches? We'll nuke your ass if you resist. Our nukes detonate at 2,000 feet; don't try to convert that to meters, just bend over and kiss your a** goodbye. - this message brought to you by the gentle government of GWB and the happy neocons.
posted by caddis at 7:19 PM on October 17, 2007

I know exactly how many meters are in a kilometer thanks to the etymology alone, but how many feet are in a mile?

That is a bad reason to use metric. The right answer to "how many feet are in a mile" or "how many meters in a kilometer" is "a whole bunch" or "who gives a shit?". There's no reason to convert between them unless you're doing some kind of engineering.

Miles can just stay miles, and fractions of miles. It's not like a sign reading "1 1/2 miles" is confusing. Likewise, you can measure distances in thousands of yards (like in naval ranging) or thousands of feet (aircraft altitude) if you want to, with no need to convert to miles or kilometers or anything else and with no real risk of confusion.

The good reason to use metric is just for coordination with other people.

In any case, the number of nations that are 100% metric is small. If your aviation or shipping uses nautical miles, you're not fully metric, are you?
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:29 PM on October 17, 2007

The problem with metric is how cold all the names of the units are. Having regional or folk names for the various units would go a long way towards making people feel comfortable with them. Pennies, nickels, dimes and quarters are all based on the same measurement system the rest of the world uses but it feels like home. Here in Malaysia imperial units were naturalized: mile = batu, yard = ela, etc. But the kay-em, see-em of metric units seems to resist that.

Maybe I'm wrong - does anyone know of local names for metric units?
posted by BinGregory at 7:39 PM on October 17, 2007

A pint is a pound the whole world 'round,
To such notions is the U.S. bound.
Most lands went metric by degrees,
'Cept Yanks, Liberians and Burmese.
(How does "Take me to your liter!" sound?)
posted by rob511 at 8:02 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

BinGregory: a common slangy abbreviation for "kilometer" is click (alt. klick), perhaps first used by the U.S. military, now fairly common
posted by rob511 at 8:08 PM on October 17, 2007

Ah well, to answer my own question, I guess there is "key" for kilogram, and "klick" for kilometer. Others?
posted by BinGregory at 8:09 PM on October 17, 2007

Oops - thanks, rob511!
posted by BinGregory at 8:09 PM on October 17, 2007

I have heard "mig" and "kig" as slang for milligrams and kilograms in a medical setting. As in, "The proper dose for this drug is ten migs per kig."
posted by Rock Steady at 8:15 PM on October 17, 2007

You know who else uses the imperial system?

Burma. Liberia.

No one else.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:16 PM on October 17, 2007

Actually, since a yard in the US is officially defined as 0.9144 meters, and an inch is officially 2.54 centimeters, it turns out that the US is on the metric system, though in a somewhat roundabout way.
posted by washburn at 8:19 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

What will happen to our beloved 40oz? Won't someone think of the gangstas?
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 8:21 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

If there's any reason we should change to the metric system, it would be to get rid of the fact that whenever you visit Canada, you suddenly have no idea how much anything sold by weight or volume costs or how far away it is.

While driving on the QEW once, I caught myself converting both my speed and the remaining distance into imperial units so that I could figure out how long it would take me to get where I was going.
posted by oaf at 8:47 PM on October 17, 2007

What's weirdest is that the US only half-assly uses both systems. I was having this conversation just a few weekends ago with a Canadian stoner about how drugs in the US are sold by both ounces and grams.

And look at races. You can run a 5K, a 10K, or a marathon (26.2 miles). Why don't they call them a 3-miler, a 6-miler and a 26-miler?
posted by Brittanie at 8:57 PM on October 17, 2007

It isn't so bad using multiple systems of units. The odd thing about the US is the federal government can't make the unilateral decision that things shall be metric from such-and-such a day forward. It is entirely possible that counties in the US can enforce such things by way of their offices of weights and measures.

The fun really begins when people say they're using SI and then flub it with bastard "metric" dimensions like kg/cm^2 when they should be using pascals, or angstroms instead of nanometers (the problem is acute in vacuum engineering, where you see dimensions like torr side by side with pascals, but the Suction Club keeps a sense of humor about this.) Even French officialdom uses ares and hectares instead of m^2 for land measure. Pointing such customary usages out to metric crusaders is fun.

The "English" system used in the United States is known formally as the US Customary System.
posted by jet_silver at 9:10 PM on October 17, 2007

it isn't as if we outlawed it.

Actually, you did.

For those perversely unwilling to see the benefits, I repeat quickly what I said earlier. As others have pointed out, learning Metric at an early age can only help more people develop a more intuitive numeracy and physical sensibility. Because of the powers-of-10 scaled concordances between length, speed and mass/weight units, understanding volumes and areas, for instance, becomes easier. Instead of seeing volumes as fixed, arbitrary units divisible only by discrete binary operations, more people come to an awareness of these as dynamic, fluid derivations of the second and third powers of length. This is adult space-time numeracy.
posted by meehawl at 9:18 PM on October 17, 2007 [3 favorites]

jet_silver, the hectare is not a standard SI unit? 10,000 m2 = 1 ha - what's wrong with that?
posted by BinGregory at 9:19 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

Brittanie, the 5K and 10K races are pretty obviously international standardization for competitive/comparison purposes. (The marathon, of course, predates the Imperial system by a few millennia.)

No one else.

Actually, that's not true at all. There's wide variation, probably tied closely to how recently the conversion took place. The UK was fairly late, so they still have many Imperial measurements in common use.

(Or was that a roundabout Hitler joke?)

Having regional or folk names for the various units would go a long way towards making people feel comfortable with them.

How about Olympic-style cartoon mascots? Throw in a metric ton of neoteny, of course.

Anyway, one of the bigger backwards steps was the USDOT abandoning the metric distance signs they began putting up in the 1970s. As the signs reached replacement age, they were just dismantled, and new signs do not generally include the alternate km distance. (I think there are some state DOTs that flout this rule, though.)

I think that people are sort of over the idea that metric is somehow "complicated". It isn't, of course -- it's just complicated to translate between two incompatible systems. But having cameras, car parts, and even wine in metric has meant people are now at least comfortable thinking in some metric units.

The real push seems to be imminent, though, and it's coming from the EU. There's a 2009 deadline for manufacturers to comply with the elimination of dual labeling, and this is going to mean a conversion for any US manufacturers with a significant EU presence (or vice versa). A whole slew of products is suddenly going to be available in 500ml sizes instead of 473ml. I suspect this is going to happen largely invisibly.

So we are experiencing creeping metrication whether it's legislated or promoted or not.
posted by dhartung at 9:25 PM on October 17, 2007

The big drawback to going metric is that every retailer takes advantage of the confusion to screw you over. Same price, smaller volume; bigger measurement but same volume, jack the price! Bastards.

The best thing about metric is that it is easy. Especially for anything fractional. Good god, woodworking in imperial sucks donkey balls!

Other than the advantages for fractions and conversion, metric versus imperial is an even draw in everyday life. Makes no real difference to one's life.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:28 PM on October 17, 2007

I love this page on the anti-metric site. I went in ready to LOLIMPERIALZ, but I like his viewpoint that being able to divide things by 2's and 3's is really handy. And metric recipes really are strange.
posted by rouftop at 9:31 PM on October 17, 2007

Brittanie, the 5K and 10K races are pretty obviously international standardization for competitive/comparison purposes.

Right. My point is, so are kilograms, liters, Celsius, etc. So why would the US arbitrarily pick one specific thing to be measured metric while other things are measured Imperial.

I'm going to start a campaign to force everyone in the US to switch to military time.
posted by Brittanie at 9:34 PM on October 17, 2007

Might I suggest a campaign to force everyone to switch to yyyymmdd date format? It's the only one that makes any sense whatsoever: it's self-ordering. All others require monkeywork to put them in order. YY-MM-DD or YY/MM/DD could also be acceptable.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:46 PM on October 17, 2007 [3 favorites]

dhartung, I didn't mean to suggest that local names should be mandated or created in one stroke by some Language Bureau, but that the emergence of local names would signal that people have truly become comfortable with the units. A four-syllable latinate term for something so necessary will never be popular on many tongues.
posted by BinGregory at 9:48 PM on October 17, 2007

The odd thing about the US is the federal government can't make the unilateral decision that things shall be metric from such-and-such a day forward.

The only way they could do that would be if they made the use of US customary measures a punishable offense.

On the one hand, this isn't likely and might be unconstitutional. Requiring metric labels is one thing, banning the publication of measurements in the old system is another.

You know who else uses the imperial system?

Burma. Liberia.

No one else.

Except for Canada. Televisions are measured in inches, as are monitors. Lumber and other construction materials are often sold by US customary measures. Land is often advertised in acres. Beer is available in pints. Food is often advertised in pounds or ounces as well as kg and grams.

And, thank you for pointing that out. Surely nobody else had noticed the information that was contained in the link.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:49 PM on October 17, 2007

The Germans, as I understand it, redefined the pound (pfund) as half a kilo, and kept using it. This is probably the way to go-- legislate in the new pound as the legal unit, and any greengrocer who resists would shortly feel the wrath of customers who were getting 10% less than they should. "New pounds" = 500g (10% more), "new quarts" = liters (5% more). Call it Universal Supersizing -- no patriotic American would resist!

Researching it got me this article.
posted by alexei at 10:08 PM on October 17, 2007 [3 favorites]

Doug: So if you have a six-pack, how much would that be in metric?
Bob: Well, double it and add 30. So that's 12... and 30... 42 metric beers.
Doug: Oh, that's good for me, eh? Count me in on metric!
posted by evilcolonel at 10:24 PM on October 17, 2007 [2 favorites]

I suspect this has something to do with getting rid of Pluto.
posted by washburn at 10:42 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

five fresh fish, I'm with you on the date format... Avoid those 2-digit-year formats though; didn't we learn from Y2K? Additionally your alternate formats are ambiguous when placed against DD/MM/YY or MM/DD/YY. ISO 8601 is all anyone needs to know about dates.

dhartung, I don't think it's that the sizes of products will change, although they well might. It's more that they will either have to make different packaging for US and EU, or get rid of Imperial measurements on the packaging entirely. I find the former more likely. Is it even legal to measure consumer products exclusively in metric?
posted by vsync at 11:07 PM on October 17, 2007

Leaving Canada has made me aware of what a bastardized system we use.

I have no mental conception of how long a mile is - for distance I think in metres and kilometres. Ditto for temperature. I'm vaguely aware that 77F is roomish temperature, and that somewhere in the 30s is "chilly", but beyond that I have not the foggiest.

But, ask me how tall I am or how much I weigh in metric? No bloody idea. I'd have to look at my driver's license.
posted by generichuman at 11:35 PM on October 17, 2007

Metric is for boring folk who like divisions of 5 & 10.

I propose we switch everything to base 12 or base 60. Divisors of 3 & 4 are much more interesting...

;op
posted by msjen at 11:43 PM on October 17, 2007

I think both systems are arbitrary and whatever it is that one is skilled at using is the one for them.
posted by bz at 11:54 PM on October 17, 2007 [1 favorite]

In Japan:

Can of Beer: 350mL
Tall Can of Beer: 500mL
Bottle of Wine: 750mL
Carton of Milk: 1000mL
Shoe size: Length of your foot in cm
Date: YYYY/MM/DD
Time: 24 hour format
Temperature: 0 = Snow!
So easy, but it takes some getting used to.

TVs and monitors are nonetheless measured in inches, though the actual word "inches" is left off because it would have no meaning to anybody here. A shiny new nickel if you can guess why they're measured this way (offer not valid wherever you are).
posted by damo at 1:17 AM on October 18, 2007 [1 favorite]

A pint is a pound the whole world 'round

Except in the UK where it's 1lb 4oz.
posted by rhymer at 1:38 AM on October 18, 2007

"Kilo cake" tastes just as good, and there's more than twice as much!

My favorite non-metric measure is paper weight in pounds. My wife used 300# art paper, which is not 15 times heavier than an same-size 20# piece of paper, but more like 8.53 times as heavy.
posted by MtDewd at 1:55 AM on October 18, 2007

Marathon length decided by the Queen:

The Marathon has been an Olympic distance since the modern Olympics started in 1896, but nothing like it was ever seen in the ancient Olympics, run from 776BC to 261AD. The longest race then was less than 5km. The Marathon was adopted as a central part of the modern Olympic progamme, and takes place in countless cities all over the world today, purely because of its popular appeal to the imagination.

The Franco-British Exhibition was being held at the new White City Stadium in West London, where the Olympic Marathon was to finish in front of the royal box from which Queen Alexandra would watch. Preserving the royal theme, the start was to be at Windsor Castle. The length was fixed at 26 miles (41.84km) and seems to have been measured very conscientiously. A late request from the Queen, to move the start back to the East Lawn of Windsor Castle, from where it could be seen by the royal children in their nursery, added a further 385 yards (352m).

posted by asok at 3:12 AM on October 18, 2007

Link
posted by asok at 3:13 AM on October 18, 2007

Point me to a beautiful song that includes the word "kilometer" and I might possibly think about reconsidering.

I can see for clicks and clicks and clicks and clicks....
posted by vbfg at 3:14 AM on October 18, 2007

> I propose we switch everything to base 12 or base 60. Divisors of 3 & 4 are much more interesting...

We should weigh everything in scruples. Makes for a more thoughtful generation.
posted by jfuller at 3:35 AM on October 18, 2007

Point me to a beautiful song that includes the word "kilometer" and I might possibly think about reconsidering.

"I'm twenty kilometers outta town
and Cold Irons bound..."

"You can hear the whistle blow,
a hundred kilometers..."

You're right.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 3:57 AM on October 18, 2007

I propose we switch everything to base 12 or base 60

Degrees, minutes, seconds and hours are alright then.
posted by asok at 4:09 AM on October 18, 2007

All cool things are in metrics, for example, here's just one. I've got my 9, well that's 9 millimeters, sounds cooler than my point two seventy inches gun.
posted by mnsc at 4:29 AM on October 18, 2007

Everybody else uses it.
Except for us and we're still in the top 5 of countries.

Which means fewer lost Martian probes.
You know, if someone would bother to check these this things, it wouldn't have been a problem.
Besides, the Decepticons actually destroyed it.

International and scientific (even in the States) standard.

Most people still think of Pluto as planet, despite what those crazy scientists say.

Base 10.
I thought this group broke up back in the '90s.

In short, this whole "Everyone should go metric" thing sounds like a bunch of overwrought scientists, looking for busywork. Go invent a delicious fatfree cheeseburger and alcohol that's nutritious like milk, then we'll talk.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:41 AM on October 18, 2007 [1 favorite]

That's interesting, about monitors. Are they not actually universally measured in inches? Never thought about that. I guess there's all sorts of odd niche areas where tradition dictates some non metric unit of measurement.
There's aeronautics where speeds are measured in machs and knots, and distance is some variation of mile (nautical, maybe imperial).
Also shipping has odd metrics. And paper sizes! Any other examples?
posted by Catfry at 5:34 AM on October 18, 2007

we're still in the top 5 of countries: Yeah. Okay.

I'm still disappointed that after the adoption of a metric system of currency, the UK continued to call their money pounds.

P.S. They're kilometres, not kilometers.
posted by Reggie Digest at 5:35 AM on October 18, 2007

Running 5Ks is nice because the average person has no idea how long it is. They think it's like 10 miles or something.
posted by smackfu at 5:35 AM on October 18, 2007

Yeah, but we'd have to refer to Miles Davis as Kilometers Davis.

And that's just so wrong.
posted by SteveInMaine at 6:15 AM on October 18, 2007

bingregory, here are the "customary" "metric" units that do not belong to the SI. My comment is about knowing what you're talking about, and SI != "metric".
posted by jet_silver at 6:27 AM on October 18, 2007

I propose we switch everything to base 12 or base 60

Degrees, minutes, seconds and hours are alright then.
posted by asok at 4:09 AM on October 18

Actually, that system works and probably arose from navigation where 360 degrees of arc is broken down in degrees, minutes, and seconds. With 24 hours in a day the sun travels 15 degress of arc an hour at the equator. With the invention of a stable means of time keeping at sea (with base 60) led to the ability to find longitude. Time and place discovered in 12s and 60s.
posted by Mojojojo at 6:55 AM on October 18, 2007

As others have pointed out, learning Metric at an early age can only help more people develop a more intuitive numeracy and physical sensibility.

Shown by studies or just a guess? Pick one.

So why would the US arbitrarily pick one specific thing to be measured metric while other things are measured Imperial.

There aren't any governmental decisions at play.

Might I suggest a campaign to force everyone to switch to yyyymmdd date format?

I tend to combine that with military time, so I end up with filenames that begin with things like 200710181010.

Requiring metric labels is one thing, banning the publication of measurements in the old system is another.

Yeah, Canada hasn't banned imperial units.

[Japanese] TVs and monitors are nonetheless measured in inches, though the actual word "inches" is left off because it would have no meaning to anybody here. A shiny new nickel if you can guess why they're measured this way (offer not valid wherever you are).

I'm guessing it's the same reason they use NTSC and 110V while their neighbors use PAL and 220V.
posted by oaf at 7:15 AM on October 18, 2007

Also shipping has odd metrics. And paper sizes! Any other examples?

Paper sizes make perfect sense in the metric (Euro) system.

YEAR-MONTH-DAY, everybody. You know it's the right thing to do.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:49 AM on October 18, 2007

Civil Engineers use the Decimal foot instead of the decimal inch. I have learned the metric system in elementary school and in college. A few years ago the State of Wisconsin DOT switched over to the metric system at a cost of who knows how many million dollars. It lasted for a year or so before it was systematically dropped and swept under the carpet.
posted by JJ86 at 8:03 AM on October 18, 2007

Yes, Imperial still lingers on in Canada. Much of it is due (like you couldn't see this coming) to our proximity to the US and the production of goods therein. I suspect as the population ages and the Metric-educated population gains prominence it will disappear more (my brothers all know Imperial only, I know Metric).

The next big milestone (heh) will be at the grocery store. Meats, cheese, and bulk items are still advertised by the pound, because the leading chains don't want to appear to have their prices more than double overnight. Chicken at $1.49 a pound sounds better than $3.28 a kilo. It's only been in the past few years that they clued in to selling them per 100g instead. That will go a long way towards converting people to think in Metric weight.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 8:19 AM on October 18, 2007

I'm vaguely aware that 77F is roomish temperature, and that somewhere in the 30s is "chilly", but beyond that I have not the foggiest.

100 -- Really fuckin' hot
90 -- Really hot
80 -- Hot but nice
70 -- Nice
60 -- Nice but maybe cool
50 -- Cool
40 -- Cool to cold
30 -- Cold, plain and simple from the eighth dimension
20 -- Really cold
10 -- Really fuckin' cold
0 -- GODDAM, it's really fuckin' cold
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 8:23 AM on October 18, 2007 [2 favorites]

Also shipping has odd metrics. And paper sizes! Any other examples?

Nails. Besides fff, who here knows the actual difference between a six-penny (6d) and an eight-penny (8d) nail?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:50 AM on October 18, 2007

Of course, I willfully interpreted the 'metric' in that question as the generic 'measure'. Are there metric nail sizes? The world waits for an answer.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 8:54 AM on October 18, 2007

Apparently, metric nail sizes are according to their dimensions.
What a silly idea!
posted by MtDewd at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2007

Louie: Ignatowski! Where have you been?
Jim: Uh...you know I don’t work weekends boss.
Louie: You been gone 9 days.
Jim: Oh...I, uh, thought we switched to the metric system.
-----
The U.S. military is a bizarre combo of metric and imperial.
posted by Smedleyman at 10:19 AM on October 18, 2007

YEAR-MONTH-DAY, everybody. You know it's the right thing to do.

When we say a date, the order is October the 18th, 2007. So the crazy US system seems appropriate.

Personally. I think DD/MM/YYYY is best because the amount of finesse decreases to the right, but I can see that the opposite direction has some value, if only for computer file naming.
posted by asok at 2:04 PM on October 18, 2007

hrm.

I'm an Australian, and I grew up with metric. I also grew up with a handyman, handing him nails, and tools, and measuring off stuff. Measurements were always in millimetres - for such work, it's the only viable measurement. Especially when you're 6 and haven't mastered fractional division yet.

I have, as an adult, managed to wrap my head somewhat around the imperial system of measurement - but honestly, it's a pain in the ass. You end up with all these extra decimal places if you try and calculate things precisely, because funnily enough, a measurement system based half-assedly on base 12 doesn't slot neatly into a counting system of base 10.

If you're going to go base 12, be my guest. But at least use an appropriate counting system. Oh. And quit asking me for conversions. Learn how to use google calculator yourselves.
posted by ysabet at 3:48 PM on October 18, 2007

Americans don't seem to have a problem with their money being decimal.
posted by kirkaracha at 3:56 PM on October 18, 2007

You end up with all these extra decimal places if you try and calculate things precisely

Where did the decimals come from in the first place? If you're dealing with fractions, do the work in fractions.
posted by smackfu at 4:09 PM on October 18, 2007

Christ, no. 15 years as a machinist taught me all the decimal equivalents for fractions down to 16ths, and how to get the smaller ones easily. Nobody works directly in fractions; it would make them crazy.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:42 PM on October 18, 2007

smackfu:
Where did the decimals come from in the first place? If you're dealing with fractions, do the work in fractions.

Because things don't come in 1/8ths. or 2/54ths. They come in n of some whole number, generally. Like 2 somethings. Or, rarely, half a something, which is usually expressed as n of something else. And the imperial system of measurement makes it a lot harder to figure out the relationships between things - and to accurately calculate how much of what you need. With metric, it's a simple factor of 10. Imperial? a factor of 3, 4, 12, something else ...
posted by ysabet at 4:48 PM on October 18, 2007

When we say a date, the order is October the 18th, 2007. So the crazy US system seems appropriate. Personally. I think DD/MM/YYYY is best because the amount of finesse decreases to the right, but I can see that the opposite direction has some value, if only for computer file naming.

When you write the date longhand, you'll naturally write it that way. And that's just peachy: in longhand, there's no confusion between the units.

But when you are writing the date as decimal, it needs to be in YYYYMMDD order. That way you can effortlessly sort your papers, index cards, bills, records, etcetera.

There are only two kinds of people in this world: people who correctly use year-month-day when writing the date as a decimal, and those who are inexcusably stupid.

Unfortunately it seems a lot of the latter end up with jobs creating paper forms. Drives me crazy: you don't just design form fields at random! Use your fucking heads! Be purposeful in design! Grrr.
posted by five fresh fish at 5:44 PM on October 18, 2007

What is this "writing" you speak of?
posted by smackfu at 7:03 PM on October 18, 2007

And metric recipes really are strange.

Speak for yourself. Occasionally I would get these recipes off the internet that seemed to have been written by slightly retarded or crazy people. It was literally several years *after* I had moved to the US that I finally figured out that those weird recipes that said "add 1 cup" of something referred to a standardised measurement of volume and not, you know, some random drinking cup that was lying around the kitchen. So all those recipes you USians are busy producing, everyone else in the world thinks you're just mad because you refer to "cups", "tablespoons" and "teaspoons" instead of simple mills.
posted by meehawl at 8:27 PM on October 18, 2007 [1 favorite]

Hmm....I say the date as the 19th of October, 2007 so 19/10/2007 seems right to me.
This is the whole argument of course.
Metric is clearly superior in every practical sense. However, a changeover would cause a small amount of discomfit to current US adults, so it will never happen.
Every other argument about how 954ml is a quart, man! is just your own bias and experience.
I know little of imperial fluid measurement, but know how much a liter is (a cardboard milk container), 375mL is a coke can, 250ml is a middy of beer (about half a pint).
A home swimming pool takes approx 50000 liters, my car fuel tank is 50L and it takes it around 11L to drive 100km (which takes an hour on a highway).
All this to me couldn't be simpler, and I was born a couple of years after my country went metric.
The only hold outs I see regularly are people giving heights in feet and inches (although the newspapers report the suspect was 180cm) and real estate adverts saying the property is 1000m2 - a quarter acre!
posted by bystander at 8:55 PM on October 18, 2007

I love acres. It's one of those wonderful English measures that's human-size. 1 acre is a good size for a house lot with a nice yard. 10 acres is a lot (farmers excepted). 0.1 acres is tiny.
posted by smackfu at 9:45 PM on October 18, 2007

Hmm....I say the date as the 19th of October, 2007 so 19/10/2007 seems right to me.

Different functionality. Forms require dates for the purposes of filing and comparison against other dates. Their functionality is best served using a yyyymmdd order. You rarely need to write the information down, but you frequently have to look it up or compare it. It is easier to put the date down as yyyymmdd once than it is to do the mental work in sorting or comparing mis-ordered dates many times.

You can certainly say the date in any order you wish; the month name and the decade or century prefix make it impossible to get confused.

When designing a form, it is plainly ridiculous to use anything other than yyyymmdd.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:05 PM on October 18, 2007

The worst part is that mm/dd/yyyy and dd/mm/yyyy are completely unusable in mixed company. So I have to write Mar 7 or Oct 10 on everything or my Euro colleagues get justifiably confused.
posted by smackfu at 10:11 PM on October 18, 2007

Sorry fff, I was using it as an example of what asok was saying, that is, because he learnt it that way it must be "right".
I'm all for standardising on a date format universally, as I hate trying to determine if 9/11/01 was on the ninth day or the 11th day (that date unambiguously reads the 9th of November in Australia or the UK).
posted by bystander at 10:42 PM on October 18, 2007

Brandon Blatcher writes "what are the benefits of the metric system?"
notsnot writes "And mass is in something called 'slugs'."

notsnot beat me but ya, no fricken' slugs. Every time someone yammers about how nicely sized imperial measures are I bust a gut laughing/weeping over 32.17405.

dhartung writes "I've often wondered why the beverage industry was one of the few to make the wholesale leap to metric"

Except they haven't. Cans are 355ml. Small bottles come in 573 and 710 ml. I assume those make some nice round american imperial size but they are down right daft in metric.

ROU_Xenophobe writes "The right answer to 'how many feet are in a mile' or 'how many meters in a kilometer' is 'a whole bunch' or 'who gives a shit?'. There's no reason to convert between them unless you're doing some kind of engineering"

There are times when you transition. At some point you stop counting steps and start counting aggregate distance. That's a lot easier in metric.

rhymer writes "Except in the UK where it's 1lb 4oz."

Heehee. I used to impress Americans with absolutely amazing claims of mileage because my gallon was 20% larger than theirs.

Kirth Gerson writes "Besides fff, who here knows the actual difference between a six-penny (6d) and an eight-penny (8d) nail?"

Me. As a child of the 70s I've been forced to learn both systems. I'll let you guess which I think is brain dead.
posted by Mitheral at 2:28 AM on October 19, 2007

And mass is in something called "slugs"

No, whatever your middle school science teacher said. The US customary unit of mass is the pound, and this has been true since 1893. A pound is simply *google* 453.59237 grams, ergo it is mass. The unit for force is also the pound, which is the force exerted by a pound mass under 1g.

There are times when you transition. At some point you stop counting steps and start counting aggregate distance. That's a lot easier in metric.

Tell that to the navy, who seem quite happy to just keep counting yards out to several tens of thousands of them. 30,000 yards is a perfectly good distance measurement. So is .05 miles.

To be sure, some people do have to switch. Ordinary "consumers" of measurement do not. There's no good reason driving or walking along to switch from miles to feet, or km to m. Engineers certainly need to, and engineering should be done in SI.

And it's not quite true that you can always remember how many X are in a metric Y, since some informal units are cgs (calorie, gauss) and others are mks.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 5:06 AM on October 19, 2007

It's usually pretty obvious when you are off by an order of magnitude or two.

ROU_Xenophobe writes "Tell that to the navy, "

I'm not telling them anything, their stance on gays proves their irrationality.
posted by Mitheral at 9:18 AM on October 19, 2007

> YEAR-MONTH-DAY, everybody. You know it's the right thing to do.

10 months in a year, 10 days in a month, 10 hours in a day. You know it's logical!
posted by jfuller at 9:49 AM on October 19, 2007