Skip

The Williamsburg Avenger
October 25, 2007 4:23 AM   Subscribe

When two Williamsburg hipsters met at a party, they exchanged more than just telephone numbers. Hell hath no fury like a hipster infected. Meet the Williamsburg Avenger. (via Gawker)
posted by PeterMcDermott (157 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

 
Kids today, they need to keep their crabs (and clams, and herps) off of my lawn.
posted by psmealey at 4:29 AM on October 25, 2007


rule #1: don't fuck hipsters at parties

okay, you can fuck hipsters at parties.


Puh-leeze.
posted by not_on_display at 4:35 AM on October 25, 2007


Aww, she's special.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 4:40 AM on October 25, 2007


rule #1: don't fuck hipsters at parties

I can't decide whether to strike "at parties" or "hipsters" for maximum value.
posted by Skorgu at 4:44 AM on October 25, 2007 [4 favorites]


Do you know somehow who is knowingly spreading disease? Send me a picture, I'll be happy to post it.

Well, I have to hand it to her -- there's certainly no potential for abuse here!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:45 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


This woman's self-righteous umbrage is ridiculous. Really, I mean, she has consensual sex with someone who is essentially a stranger and then gets all righteous when he turns out to be a herpes-infected asshole? Come the fuck on. She let him not use a condom for Christsakes. And her sidebar that reads "Let's face it, we are a group of creative and educated people. We are a community of psuedo intellectuals and artists. We can do better than this." has (besides a misspelling) a really icky connotation that educated people are too good to get STDs. I hate her.
posted by sneakin at 4:45 AM on October 25, 2007 [15 favorites]


so we started with condoms and then somewhere in the middle he convinced me not to use them. i didn't give in on this quickly. to give myself the credit i deserve, i held my ground for quite some time. but i gave in eventually, and that was my downfall.

he said he wouldn't come in me. he was true to his word. sadly, it made no difference.


The credit you deserve? Really? That's how the problem mortgage crisis in this country happened - people are getting far more credit than they deserve. Maybe Greenspan gave her herpes.
posted by clearlynuts at 4:46 AM on October 25, 2007 [6 favorites]


This is so wrong and vindictive. She has no idea if he even *knew* he had herpes, since many people who are infected are symptom free.

I sympathize with any women who has been screwed over by a man but that does give one carte blanche to continue doing the screwing. Besides, she consented to sex sans condom anyway.
posted by Brittanie at 4:47 AM on October 25, 2007


I for one think she ought to shut the fuck up.
posted by autodidact at 4:51 AM on October 25, 2007


Personally, I think the most interesting thing about the story was that she decided to do this after he blocked her from contacting him.

I mean, she'd already told him that he's infected her. What other need does she have to speak to him? This isn't so much revenge for the infection, as revenge for escaping her rightful nag-a-thon.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 4:59 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


So, Drew is a hipster with herpes.

I guess that makes him a Herpster.
posted by fandango_matt at 5:01 AM on October 25, 2007 [6 favorites]


"i tried to use condoms. really i did."

"so we started with condoms and then somewhere in the middle he convinced me not to use them. i didn't give in on this quickly. to give myself the credit i deserve, i held my ground for quite some time. but i gave in eventually, and that was my downfall."

No sympathy here. She made two stupid decisions - to trust a stranger that she met at a party, ffs, and then to forgo the condom. Sure, he's a dick, but so is she.
posted by mewithoutyou at 5:04 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


but Hipster didn't like condoms. he couldn't keep it up while using one. this happens to be a pet peeve of mine. dare i say: if a man can't properly use a condom, he is not really a Man.

Either that, or he's just not that into you.

Seriously, though how she describes it is pretty much how most people (excluding rape victims) contract STDs. This is why there can be no room for negotiation when it comes to safe sex with strangers. It's a shitty situation for her, and I can empathize with her anger and frustration, but this is not a useful (or sane) way to express it.
posted by psmealey at 5:08 AM on October 25, 2007


This one time? At a party? There was this guy? And he had matches? He said they weren't hot, but when he lit one I got burned!

I'm gonna start a blog to warn people.
posted by DU at 5:08 AM on October 25, 2007 [5 favorites]


if a man can't properly use a condom, he is not really a Man

But I guess total lack of this woman's respect is no barrier to her fucking you.
posted by absalom at 5:11 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


How much you wanna bet that she finds this post, pays the 5 bones and weighs in here? This could be an interesting day.
posted by psmealey at 5:13 AM on October 25, 2007


"MySpace is just Friendster with herpes."

Comedy gold.
posted by fandango_matt at 5:18 AM on October 25, 2007


If you are over 20 and want to fuck around you have to realize you have a very high chance of getting herpes. But herpes ain't the end of the world, the social stigma is worse than the actual disease.
posted by afu at 5:27 AM on October 25, 2007


How much you wanna bet that she finds this post, pays the 5 bones and weighs in here? This could be an interesting day.

If she has enough guts and naive stupidity to weigh in here, she's really got it comin' .

if a man can't properly use a condom, he is not really a Man

Ignorance can be fixed. Stupid is forever.
posted by pax digita at 5:28 AM on October 25, 2007


How much you wanna bet that she finds this post, pays the 5 bones and weighs in here? This could be an interesting day.

No, I think she's probably too awash in the attention that she's getting to care about where it's coming from and what people are saying, other than in comments posted directly to her blog. I just want to see the defamation of character lawsuit. Is this Williamsburg, PA? I'll have to set a Google Alert for that news story. (Now where did I get the idea to do that?)

I guess that makes him a Herpster.

They're both herpsters with hippies, now.
posted by not_on_display at 5:30 AM on October 25, 2007


Can't use the Shift key either. Dozy bint.
posted by i_cola at 5:37 AM on October 25, 2007


The last person you fuck before manifesting symptoms is not necessarily the infection vector. People can be asymptomatic for years. I would love it if her previous lovers came forward and said she gave it to them. That would be fun.
posted by srboisvert at 5:41 AM on October 25, 2007


Before we proceed any further, we're going to need a picture of this young lady so we many accurately determine whether she is a nice girl who made a mistake, a vindictive bitch, or a stupid, ugly slut.
posted by fandango_matt at 5:45 AM on October 25, 2007 [13 favorites]


Is this Williamsburg, PA?

Nice.

You know, I had real reservations about making this post, but I just couldn't bear to deprive people of such a fine opportunity for maximum snark among multiple axis.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:49 AM on October 25, 2007


This is so wrong and vindictive. She has no idea if he even *knew* he had herpes, since many people who are infected are symptom free.

You are so right. This makes me sick. What a fucking douche, and I'm not talking about the hipster guy. The lameness on her blog of declining to post a picture of herself pretty much sums up her shitiness.

Aside from the likely possibility that he didn't know he had herpes, even had he used a condom, condoms do not necessarily protect against herpes.
posted by OmieWise at 5:50 AM on October 25, 2007


the next morning i quickly learned we had little in common

Well thats not necessarily true. You both had herpes.
posted by ND¢ at 5:51 AM on October 25, 2007 [34 favorites]


How come she isn't publishing her photo, too? She's just as infected, and we also know she does unsafe sex with strangers at parties. What else did she catch?
posted by Goofyy at 5:52 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


posted by Goofyy What else did she catch?

Attitude, man! She's the new herpster AIDS Mary.
posted by fandango_matt at 5:55 AM on October 25, 2007


It's Williamsburg, Va.

It's misleading because "Drew" is not shown in his costume and she doesn't mention that he is an apprentice at the cooper's. (We all know the cooper's are the real heels). The real burning question is if she's a milk-maid, Governor's wife or maybe laundry-maid (maid is, of course, just figure of speech: And no, I'm not going to make the obvious 'harlot' or 'strumpet' joke because (well, history is written by the winners, ain't it) there are no hoo-ers in Colonial Williamsburg.

And I totally agree, without a picture, well, aside from vast geographic distance and an aversion to drunks generally, how am I to avoid her and her dreaded STD?

I'll never feel comfortable straying from the marital bed again, unless it's to the barnyard... It's tough bein' a player in a simulated 17th century metropolis but hey....

sorry, I got nothin', really. I'm tryin' but I'm just runnin' on fumes....
posted by From Bklyn at 5:58 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


Has no one pointed out the extreme unattractiveness of the guy in question? Is she not ashamed to have slept with him regardless of his herposity?
posted by bassjump at 6:05 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


You know, I had real reservations about making this post, but I just couldn't bear to deprive people of such a fine opportunity for maximum snark among multiple axis.

We're going to be seriously pissed if your post turns out to be a MySpace viral.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:06 AM on October 25, 2007


posted by bassjump Has no one pointed out the extreme unattractiveness of the guy in question? Is she not ashamed to have slept with him regardless of his herposity?

According to her story, the guy in question was not her first choice for the evening's festivities, and she was probably looking at him through a set of beer goggles with very hip black plastic retro frames.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:15 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


This is the thing about herpes that gets me. I mean, there's a lot about herpes that gets me, but this in particular -

Ok, so, you can pass both oral and genital herpes even while you're not having an outbreak - and - on top of that - you can have herpes and carry it and pass it on for *years* and never even have an outbreak. Oh, and, also, unless you're having an outbreak, there's no real test for it.

So what the fuck.

How do you deal with that? Do you just never kiss anyone? Ever?
posted by kbanas at 6:17 AM on October 25, 2007


Williamsburg, PA?
It's Williamsburg, Va.

We're both wrong... the 2nd link indicates that it's a neighborhood in Brooklyn. How quaint!
posted by not_on_display at 6:18 AM on October 25, 2007


HrrpsGrrl.
posted by bhance at 6:19 AM on October 25, 2007


It's been my experience that attractiveness and one-night stands only correlate when both parties are attractive. Otherwise, ain't got nothing to do with it.

/not shallow
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 6:19 AM on October 25, 2007


DTMFA
posted by YoBananaBoy at 6:25 AM on October 25, 2007


We're both wrong... the 2nd link indicates that it's a neighborhood in Brooklyn. How quaint!

I think only you were wrong. From Bklyn was joking.
posted by OmieWise at 6:30 AM on October 25, 2007


kbanas, it's like having a cold sore. I had a cold sore when I was about eight years old, as most people do at some point growing up. Anybody who's had a cold sore has oral HSV1 or HSV2. Quick poll, who has had a cold sore? How big a problem is it in your life? Bigger problem for some people than others, depending on which substrain you contracted and the shape of your immune system.

Anyhow, just as you can live your whole life with someone who has once had a cold sore and never get one, you can date someone with genital herpes and have unprotected sex and never catch it. It depends on both of your immune systems, and your judgement, discipline, etc..

Most responsible people with genital HSV1 or HSV2 do the following:

1. Get a prescription for acyclovir, a drug which inhibits replication of HSV1 and HSV2
2. Take lysine supplements
3. Avoid undue stress
4. Do not engage in sexual activity if any symptoms are present
5. Always use condoms for casual encounters
6. Always inform partners
7. Be hygenic
etc..
posted by autodidact at 6:37 AM on October 25, 2007


"i was at a party. a good party. a very very good party. i had set my sights on a particular boy, but alas it was not meant to be. this first boy came and went. several drinks later a new boy emerged. he was cute: scruffy facial hair, shaggy hair, snarky hipster attitude. i won't lie, i was intrigued. i hadn't had sex in over two months and although i am not a one-night-stand kind of girl, an opportunity had opened up to me and i decided to take it."

She should really write erotic fiction. This is grade-A.

Her experience represents a minor and common crisis. Her reaction has turned it into a fiasco. And she clearly isn't savvy enough to do anything but eventually cave in on herself when the attention peaks (or when it subsides). Even people who've gotten herpes under similar circumstances probably just want her to shut up.

Also she's a coward for "stepping forward" and wallowing in attention while slandering someone who may or may not be guilty of anything, while trying to keep her own face hidden.

If she can blow herpes up into such a huge deal, I can't wait to see what she does with her first cancer blog.
posted by hermitosis at 6:40 AM on October 25, 2007


"We are a group of creative and educated people. We are a community of psuedo intellectuals and artists."

Also, as a Greenpoint resident, the idea that someone could add "pseudo-intellectuals" to a list of POSITIVE qualities that we all strive toward makes me scream into my fists. Am I laughing?? Am I in pain?? EVEN I DON'T KNOW.
posted by hermitosis at 6:48 AM on October 25, 2007 [18 favorites]


This story is like the perfect storm of everything I try mightily to avoid: Williamsburg, Herpes, Hipsters, Gawker, and Insane People who Put Up Flyers for Revenge. And yet, here I am.
posted by deern the headlice at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2007 [22 favorites]


Has no one pointed out the extreme unattractiveness of the guy in question? Is she not ashamed to have slept with him regardless of his herposity?

Without a picture we can't tell if you are just ugly on the inside.
posted by srboisvert at 6:51 AM on October 25, 2007


I agree, hermitosis, but I think the horse left that barn a long time ago. Those lines first got blurred when famous and infamous became synonyms with equally positive qualities.
posted by psmealey at 6:52 AM on October 25, 2007


I heard she has a big vagina.
posted by Sailormom at 6:56 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


sorry, I got nothin', really. I'm tryin' but I'm just runnin' on fumes....

Seriously, jokes confusing Hipster Williamsburg and Colonial Williamsburg never got the traction they deserved. I still cherish the image of hipsters wearing tricorn hats and knee breeches instead of trucker caps. If enough jokes had been made when Williamsburg NY was at the hight of its trendy visibility I guarantee you that would have happened.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:58 AM on October 25, 2007 [3 favorites]


Dude are you going to Galapagos tonight?
Nah, man, I'm just going to stay home an dip some of these bayberry candles.
posted by psmealey at 6:59 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


In common parlance, the prefix pseudo is used to mark something as false, fraudulent, or pretending to be something it is not, as in pseudoscience or pseudophilosophy. In referring to a person, the term "pseudo" is generally understood to mean "pseudointellectual".

So. Not really intellectual at all right? More like a. . . a poseur.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:06 AM on October 25, 2007


Quick poll, who has had a cold sore? How big a problem is it in your life?

I went to a mixed secondary school between the ages of 11 - 16. From the age of 12 or so, every Christmas, somebody would bring in mistletoe and we'd get to snog everybody in the class that we'd fancied all year.

Of course, the first year it happened, *everybody* in the class came to school a couple of days later with herpes.

The only time it has ever been a problem for me was once, during passionate sex, I bit somebody on the forehead. Broke the skin. No biggie, we thought at the time. Just hot sex.

A day or two later, her head blew up to the size of a watermelon. The doctor said that I'd infected her, directly into the bloodstream, and she was lucky that he'd caught it as she may have lost her sight.

I'd completely forgotten that I had it. Aside from that first outbreak as kids, I've never had any symptoms. Never passed it on to anybody, either through kissing or oral sex. Then, all of a sudden, boof. Presumably, everyone else I'd had contact with had been previously exposed, as kids, like I have?

Unfortunately, I've never seen an over-the-head condom, otherwise I'd recommend one to Drew. I suspect he'd get a lot more action with a black, extra-thick, over-the-head condom in place.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:07 AM on October 25, 2007 [9 favorites]


Holy shit, pete, that's the best STD story EVAR.

(I mean, that sucks. but yeah, it's funny.)
posted by notsnot at 7:10 AM on October 25, 2007


I feel like I won some sort of prize by getting through the fuckfests of college, the bar scene, the club scene, the dj circuit scene with absolutely zero STDS. It's like, fuck yeah! I won!
posted by four panels at 7:10 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


I think the funniest part of Pete's story is the biting on the forehead. Where did you learn that move?
posted by autodidact at 7:19 AM on October 25, 2007


"I feel like I won some sort of prize by getting through the fuckfests of college, the bar scene, the club scene, the dj circuit scene with absolutely zero STDS. It's like, fuck yeah! I won!"

Yeah, but, four panels, that's one of my points. How do you know? How do you know you didn't get Herpes at some point and you've simply never had an outbreak, like, ever?

As far as I know, there's no test you could take, no way to determine - yet you could still pass it on to someone else.

Which is what drives me batshit insane about all this.

*pulls at hair*
posted by kbanas at 7:20 AM on October 25, 2007


yeah, it's funny

Yeah, that was my initial response too - but it faded fast. When I say it was like a watermelon, I'm actually not exaggerating. She was so sick, she needed several weeks off work, and it was touch and go as to whether they were going to hospitalize her.

I can't remember much about how they treated her. I've got a recollection that they were giving her antibiotics, but that doesn't make any sense given that herpes is a virus, so presumably wouldn't have any impact on it.

I can laugh now, but at the time I felt like Drew must probably be feeling right around now.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:21 AM on October 25, 2007


Where did you learn that move?

I'm prone to improvization -- what can I say? Sometimes it works out, and sometimes it fails miserably.

In my defense, I was a *much* younger man at the time.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 7:22 AM on October 25, 2007


Peter,

That is an awesome, fantastic story.

I mean, like you say, horrible at the time, but Jesus, that's one to pull out at parties.
posted by kbanas at 7:23 AM on October 25, 2007


You can, in fact, have a Herpes antibody test performed:
The presence of HSV-1 or HSV-2 IgM antibodies indicates an active or recent infection. HSV-1 or HSV-2 IgG antibodies indicate a previous infection. A significant increase in HSV IgG antibodies, measured by comparing acute and convalescent samples, indicates an active or recent infection. Negative HSV antibody results mean that it is unlikely that the patient has been exposed to HSV, or that the body has not had time to begin HSV antibody production.
But herpes is fairly common and fairly benign. That it's an STD and chronic makes it seem worse than it is. How many people freakout about having warts on their hands? It's arguably a more infectious condition since most people touch more people then they kiss, but no one worries too much about it.
posted by OmieWise at 7:38 AM on October 25, 2007


Herpes can cause brain damage.

But 15 years ago, the herpes simplex virus chewed its way through his brain, coring it like an apple. By the time the virus had run its course, two walnut-size chunks of brain matter in the medial temporal lobes had disappeared, and with them most of EP's memory.

Maybe that's what's happening to this limp dicked, convincing his sex partner it was ok to take off his condom 'hipster', and he just was so damaged he couldn't to tell her?
posted by nickyskye at 8:09 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


But herpes ain't the end of the world, the social stigma is worse than the actual disease.

and...

How do you know you didn't get Herpes at some point and you've simply never had an outbreak, like, ever?

and...

But herpes is fairly common and fairly benign. That it's an STD and chronic makes it seem worse than it is.

This was a point I read elsewhere — herpes is so very common and doesn't deserve the stigma attached to it. Clearly this chick is "outing" the guy because she now feels stigmatized* and damaged but she's cutting off her nose to spite her face because the very blog she writes is perpetuating the stigma.

Stupid, stupid.

*Not to be confused with dickmatized.
posted by Brittanie at 8:09 AM on October 25, 2007


Reading thru these comments during a meeting was a bad idea, I about busted out laughing several times.

*sigh* another stupid hipster's pain provides me with entertainment..
posted by MrBobaFett at 8:12 AM on October 25, 2007


he was cute: scruffy facial hair, shaggy hair, snarky hipster attitude.

People who have such tremendous bad taste have only themselves to blame for their misfortunes. I'm not saying the poor hipsters bring it on themselves but there's a good reason all these righteous calls for social justice always come across as just shrill whining.
posted by nixerman at 8:21 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


The funniest part of this nonsense is that this person reminds me of another person whom I know: a herpes-positive person who not only has plenty of unprotected sex, but acts quite judgmentally whenever others do it. A person who thinks their (fairly common, not shameworthy, but please be honest!) condition is more of a secret than it really is.
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:27 AM on October 25, 2007


I don't even know what "snarky hipster attitude" means. Is it like, "Hey, you know that swank new place that everybody's talking about -- everybody cool, I mean? Yeah. Well, it SUCKS! Ha! You didn't expect that, did you? I'm snarky! Also, do you see how am I not shaving?" Because that could get old.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:28 AM on October 25, 2007 [5 favorites]


I think this was mentioned sometime during the Gawker shitshow, but: you can contract herpes and not know you have it for a very long time.

My friend's mother was fiftysomething and on her third husband. One day she want to the doctor for something resembling a pimple around the taint. Turns out it was herpes she'd contracted sexually in her teens; it had just been dormant all those years. So without Drew's side of the story, we may never know what's what.

Why am I still commenting on this story??
posted by deern the headlice at 8:33 AM on October 25, 2007


I want to say something snarky about Williamsburg and hipsters being the poster children for American-Head-Up-The-Ass Entitlement. But I'm afraid that if I do, I'll somehow never be able to convince a drunk hipster girl, that I've just met, to have unprotected sex with me. Life is so unfair.
posted by bastionofsanity at 8:35 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


Has no one pointed out the extreme unattractiveness of the guy in question?

What, you're too good for yellow teeth?
posted by kittyprecious at 8:40 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


Is it like,

Yup.

The Williamsburg Avenger doesn't seem like the single worst human being of all time, but this set of actions seems pretty typical for that snarky attitude. She thinks a half-hearted sense of irony about how nutty she's being excuses her - because, you see, if you get all meta about how unreasonable you're being, then it means that you're clearly so smart and empathetic that you know better, but isn't it a shame that your feelings are just plain too strong to ignore. Token self-deprecation as a ticket to putting the responsibility on someone else. Curse you, Drew, for MAKING HER DO THIS.

Note as well the remarks about pseudo-intellectuals and pseudo-safe sex. When you couch it in token self-deprecation, it almost sounds like she's saying something other than "I'm an educated hipster who had unprotected sex and then got an STD. This isn't supposed to happen to educated hipsters! Or me! I bathe every day, read Murakami, and am not poor!"

Not that I give much of a toss about this Drew character. If he was knowingly shooting out the herp, then he deserves a shovel or two to the back of the head, but she doesn't know that, and hey, it takes two to tango. In all likelihood, if he has herpes, then he got it the same exact way she did.

It's just one big happy writhing snakepit of stupidity, that's all. I hate everyone.

In short: GET OFF MY LAWN
posted by Sticherbeast at 8:56 AM on October 25, 2007 [3 favorites]


Then they came out with herpes. You keep that shit forever, like luggage.

While you have a total obligation to disclose your STDs and prevent their transfer, blogging some dude's photo and papering the neighborhood is not only childish, it's actionable.
posted by kosem at 9:00 AM on October 25, 2007


She can't post her pic. As such a vengeful and obvious BITCH, she'd never get another man for years, until people forgot about this. Herpes or no, (even if it were a curable STD like the clap) I don't think any "hipster" with an internet connection would hook up with her, and on top of that, I'm sure prospective employers would think twice about hiring such a twat.
posted by Debaser626 at 9:04 AM on October 25, 2007


My favorite comment on her blog:

You got a phone number STD chick, I figure I could you use you on my next straight to DVD, Adult Film, Chicks who Itch. You up for a cameo? Just post a blog if you're interested, and I'll drop you some contact info...Good Luck, and remember no glove no love.
posted by Debaser626 at 9:07 AM on October 25, 2007


If her revenge on this twit gets the word out not to be conned into having condomless casual sex, it's a good thing, for females and males.
posted by nickyskye at 9:29 AM on October 25, 2007


Her picture
posted by Joeforking at 9:33 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


What a great blog. I've always known that hipsters are a bunch of overprivileged snobs who adopt fake poverty as a morally-superior style choice and are too sanctimonious to realize that a sense of irony is not equivalent to intelligence. Now I also know that they're actually diseased. Thanks, herpes girl!
posted by caffeine_monkey at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


Looks like someone's having second thoughts...

"herpes avenger" no more

sometimes i walk around this city and i'm surrounded by millions of people but i just feel totally alone. its so easy to get lost in the shuffle and feel completely insignificant and feel like whatever it is you're struggling with is ultimately meaningless and will go unnoticed.
some people say i don't deserve any pity. well, i didn't ask for your pity.
i really just wanted to raise awareness. and i have done that. i've done that on a way larger scale than i ever thought possible. i never imagined that gawker would pick up on the flyers and that 20,000 people would read about me. i really had just intended it to be local. and now i think this has gone far enough. maybe too far.
i've did what i set out to do and now i think i'm done ... i love the debate that i have sparked. i love that i got people to argue and discuss something more serious than celebrity DUIs. all the people who supported what i did and cheered me on, you're awesome (especially the guy that wrote the ode) ... and to all you people who disagree with me, i think your arguments are totally valid (except that guy who called me a whore. that's so fucking juvenile. just because you can't get a girl to come doesn't mean you should take it out on us girls who get enjoyment out of sex). anyway, i think its great that you all voiced your dissent.
i don't think i can move on with my life while this blog still exists. so i think i'm going to delete it. i hope i raised awareness. i hope i did a good thing. if nothing else i think i proved the immense power of the individual.
take care.

posted by damnthesehumanhands at 9:42 AM on October 25, 2007


I still cherish the image of hipsters wearing tricorn hats and knee breeches instead of trucker caps.

And drinking hard cider instead of PBR.
posted by ericb at 9:44 AM on October 25, 2007


fun fact: 30 percent of the population has HSV type 2 (genital herpes), or at least has been exposed to it and sero-converted as shown by the antibody tests linked up thread. 80-100 percent of the population has HSV type 1, mouth herpes, which can also infect genitals and other places.
posted by fermezporte at 9:53 AM on October 25, 2007


"i love that i got people to argue and discuss something more serious than celebrity DUIs."

Wonderful. Can you please pass the Talking Stick to someone else now?
posted by hermitosis at 10:00 AM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


This woman is unstopable! No about of chastizing, mocking, or international humiliation will detract from her inflated sense of self importance!
posted by absalom at 10:08 AM on October 25, 2007


"i love that i got people to argue and discuss the state of my vagina."

Fixed that for you, herpes grrrl.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 10:14 AM on October 25, 2007


Metafilter: bathes daily, reads Murakami, not poor.
posted by bhance at 10:25 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


Just wanted to say I feel angry and disheartened reading the puerile misogyny in this thread.
posted by nickyskye at 10:49 AM on October 25, 2007 [4 favorites]


"raising awareness" is the last refuge of scoundrels.
posted by psmealey at 10:59 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


Just wanted to say I feel angry and disheartened reading the puerile misogyny in this thread.

Ah. Presumably that explains your own misandry in this comment then?

Maybe that's what's happening to this limp dicked, convincing his sex partner it was ok to take off his condom 'hipster', and he just was so damaged he couldn't to tell her?

Because as everyone knows, women are just too weak to insist that a one night stand she's just met at a party should wear a condom, and too feeble minded to accept responsibility for the poor choices that she's made, right?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 11:10 AM on October 25, 2007


NickySkye: I don't see it. Most of the comments in here seem to be along the lines of hipsters=diarrhea and the Avenger Girl is a bit of a fool for responding in this manner. I didn't get the impression anyone was generalizing the behavior of an individual woman to the gender as a whole. Did I miss something?

Just wanted to say I feel angry and disheartened reading the puerile misogyny in this thread.
posted by nickyskye at 1:49 PM on October 25 [+] [!]

posted by bastionofsanity at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2007


nickyskye--I mostly see that in Debaser's comments. I think other responses are pretty expected for someone who does something as shitty as this woman did. Where else are you seeing misogyny?

I've found your own interventions in the thread interesting, as they've seemed to excuse the choice the "Avenger" had in choosing to have unprotected sex. Getting conned into something is not the same as getting, for instance, tricked into something.
posted by OmieWise at 11:16 AM on October 25, 2007


Huh, the two comments previous to mine were not in the thread when I started writing mine.
posted by OmieWise at 11:17 AM on October 25, 2007


Yes, I said that in anger, in response to comments spewing hatred, even stating they hate this anonymous person and sounding like they are getting off on hatred.

The Williamsburg Avenger said on her blog her former lover used his not being able to maintain an erection, going limp, was why he couldn't wear a condom. He was, literally, limp dicked.
posted by nickyskye at 11:18 AM on October 25, 2007


I don't hate her. I just want her to shut up. I'm sure many people on MeFi feel the same way about me.

In a way, it's just another form of love. A much cleaner one, incidentally.

So who wants to make out?
posted by hermitosis at 11:24 AM on October 25, 2007


"And drinking hard cider instead of PBR."

Christ, man, it was $4 for a plastic cup of PBR at the last show I went to.

I hate hipsters (with money enough to drive up prices on PBR).
posted by klangklangston at 11:37 AM on October 25, 2007


Oh, and ps. to nicky: You have to remember that on Metafilter, anything bitter or snarky or smelling of Zing, especially from a woman, will prompt a fair coterie of comments striving to out-bitter, out-snark and out Zing the original, especially if those comments can be written from a reflexively contrarian position. That's why people had to go after The Avenger—she posited herself as an enforcer of social norms, and it's easier to say "dozy bint" than engage a sense of righteousness on its face.

That, and most people here have the herps and hate condoms.
posted by klangklangston at 11:42 AM on October 25, 2007


"The Williamsburg Avenger" bringing righteousness, tricorn hats and kneebreeches together with a love for Murakami, frequent bathing and an acceptible but not extravagant level of wealth, to that other, less historically authentic Williamsburg...where the don't want her either.
posted by From Bklyn at 11:48 AM on October 25, 2007


"And drinking hard cider instead of PBR."

I could live with the "so bad it's good" ethos as long as they applied it to film, music, fashion...but not beer. Good god, people. Irony and beer do NOT MIX.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:57 AM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


he was cute: scruffy facial hair, shaggy hair, snarky hipster attitude.

How sad and telling is it that her definition of "cute" or appealing is the same as a twelve year old girl's?

Let's face it, we are a group of creative and educated people. We are a community of psuedo intellectuals and artists. We can do better than this.

No. No, you probably can't.

I'd click over to cull more Comedy Gold, but I'm paranoid her blog has the AdSense.
I hear it's contagious.

posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:00 PM on October 25, 2007


Someone once told me that hipsters were like locusts, they swarm into areas and eat up its natural resources then move on to another area. I guess you can now say that they carry diseases too!
posted by cazoo at 12:03 PM on October 25, 2007


it's easier to say "dozy bint" than engage a sense of righteousness on its face.

That, and most people here have the herps and hate condoms


Thanks for the bellylaugh klangklangston. Can I give you a cyber hug?
posted by nickyskye at 12:11 PM on October 25, 2007


Can I be the first to ask what the fuck a "dozy bint" is?
posted by psmealey at 12:14 PM on October 25, 2007


OmieWise, "A confidence trick or confidence game, also known as a con, scam, swindle, grift, bunko or flim flam, is an attempt to swindle a person or persons (known as the "mark") which involves gaining his or her confidence."

I'm curious about your perception of the difference between to trick and to con.

dozy bint
posted by nickyskye at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2007


engage a sense of righteousness on its face.

Well that's what she had, a sense of righteousness, not any actual righteousness. She engaged in shitty shitty vigilante justice uninformed by the science that fails to authorize her position.

(It's funny, I brought this up at lunch here at the STD clinic, and of the three people I was talking to, all three docs, and one an ID fellow, all pooh poohed the idea that she could even be sure he infected her. I didn't even ask, it was just the first thing they all said in response to the story of the flyers. When I brought up that she'd been abstinent 2 months, they all snorted and said that that didn't prove a thing.)
posted by OmieWise at 12:25 PM on October 25, 2007


I'm curious about your perception of the difference between to trick and to con.

Look, I think the guy was a shit. I don't think people should have unprotected sex with one-night stands. But he didn't tell her he had a condom on and then stick it in, has asked and she said yes. That he seemed to suggest that they would not have sex if she didn't ascent does not make her less able to decide not to do it.

So that's the difference I see. She's responsible for what she gets if she agrees to have unsafe sex. He is too, but she is ultimately responsible for her own body. (To say otherwise strikes me as a very strange position, indeed.) Had he lied to her about what he was doing, had he forced her, she would not be responsible.
posted by OmieWise at 12:28 PM on October 25, 2007


OmieWise, I'm still sincerely curious about how you perceive the difference between to con and to trick.

She did take responsibility for her action in saying, "true. it is. i am not innocent. i am partly to blame." The legal discussion in the comments of her last post has been interesting. She provided the condom, he put it on and then, when his erection deflated, he told her he couldn't continue with the condom. If he were innocent, wouldn't he have been afraid for his own health and contacted her to find out the details? If he were innocent in his actions, why would he not communicate with her after she sent him the email, which seemed reasonably written?

The sex act was consensual, a mutual choice, but the by-product of that act is only her responsibility?
posted by nickyskye at 1:07 PM on October 25, 2007


Let me put it another way: he persuaded her to continue without a condom. If he had tricked her (in my use of the word) she would not have had a choice. I'm interested in how you're using the word, though. In what sense did he trick her? When he asked her to have unprotected sex?

I get it, she's pissed and she thinks she was wronged. She may well have been, but I don't think the evidence we have supports that conclusion.

Here are the facts as we know them:

1) This woman had consensual sex with a partner that she did not know, and she consensually decided not to use protection during that sex. (That it was his request that initiated the condomless sex is immaterial, she still made a choice to engage in it.)

2) She had an outbreak of herpes.

3) She decided that not only did she contract the herpes from him, but he already knew himself to be herpes positive at the time they had sex.

4) We know she did not know if he knew he was HSV+, and we know that she could not confirm where she actually contracted HSV. (Supposition is not proof.)

5) Despite this lack of surety she posted pictures of him around town, alleging that he has an incurable disease and that he knowingly exposed her to it.

He may well be a prick, but all the information we have indicates that not only is she the victim of her own choices, but that she is willing to attempt to really harm someone without concrete evidence that they're guilty of what she claims they are. Let's just assume for a minute that she did contract HSV from him, but that he didn't know he was infected. Is her postering justified then? Does it seem like a mature response to adult behavior freely engaged in? Of the two, she strikes me as by far the more vicious and hurtful person.

The sex act was consensual, a mutual choice, but the by-product of that act is only her responsibility?

I'm not sure what it is you're asking here or how to respond. But, I think the answer is yes, that the reason we caution people to have safe sex (particularly during casual sex) is that you and not your partner, ultimately have to live with the consequences of your choice.

If he were innocent, wouldn't he have been afraid for his own health and contacted her to find out the details? If he were innocent in his actions, why would he not communicate with her after she sent him the email, which seemed reasonably written?

I have no idea why he didn't respond. I'm in no sense defending this guy as some paragon of responsible virtue, but it strikes me that the "if's..." in these sentences are a poor platform for vigilante justice of this sort.
posted by OmieWise at 1:26 PM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


I don't think that anyone is saying that it's only her responsibility. At the end of the day, however, when you consent to unprotected sex with someone, if you get an STD, you reap the predictable, if slightly unlikely consequences of your behavior--even if they don't tell you they have one, even if they lie to you. It happens all the time. For this reason, you have to protect yourself and to the extent you are willing to admit it, take the risk that you will get herpes, against which a condom is no reliable insurance.

Because so many people have herpes, and because so many people with herpes are unaware that they have it, and because the latency period can be very long, it is not always clear that the vector is who you think it is, or if it is, that he is morally culpable.

Publishing a blog and papering the neighborhood with the identity of the person you think infected you is highly irresponsible, immature, and probably tortious.
posted by kosem at 1:28 PM on October 25, 2007


The sex act was consensual, a mutual choice, but the by-product of that act is only her responsibility?

It's their shared responsibilty, with the buck stopping at each of their respective bodies. He neither forced her to have sex nor tricked her into thinking he was wearing a condom when he was not, so when she winds up with herpes, then yes, it is her problem that she has it, just as it is his problem that he has it. She CHOSE to have unsafe sex, and there's no reason to flyer Williamsburg with his face.

Also, her email did not sound all that reasonable. The fact that she made it an open letter is a giant red flag, and the fact that her first response after being blocked was to flyer the town was another giant red flag, so now this woman has two giant red flags, which is convenient if she'd like new curtains. She either has no idea how to talk with people about difficult issues, or, and this is more likely, she craves attention (and has received it).

What conversation could have followed that email? He prostrates himself before her and carefully takes the herpes back using penis suction? Both of them should just plain go to a doctor and get a scrip for some Valtrex. Then they should buy some condoms at Duane Reade and USE THEM. If he has problems staying hard when using a condom, then he should practice until this is no longer a problem. And there was never any reason to assume that she could have unsafe sex without repercussions.

I have no doubt that Drew is probably a douchetard - he looks like one, at any rate - but her email was uselessly accusatory and scientifically inaccurate. There is no certainty that it was he who gave her herpes, let alone that he knowingly spread it. If he did, then he should be beaten with two and a half tire jacks, but until we have a preponderance of evidence for that, there's no reason to act like an self-centered idiot, like she has.

...

As for whether this whole thread is an example of MetaFilter BoyZone.................................................occasionally but not always. I think that, by and large, the Williamsburg Avenger has given herself enough rope where it's difficult to blame people for disliking her. For all we know, she's a very nice person who was just angry that she had contracted a chronic STD, but on the other hand, I know plenty of dickfaces who have friends and are kind to animals. When people say they hate her, they're just referring to this stupid episode.

May she get over this and then herself.
posted by Sticherbeast at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2007


Alternatively: what the estimable OW said.
posted by kosem at 1:32 PM on October 25, 2007


I demand examples of "puerile misogyny" asap, nickyskye. If you're going to break out two $5 words and use them in a row, you best believe you're getting called on it. I'll take exact quotations, please. Thanks.
posted by sneakin at 1:42 PM on October 25, 2007


"In what sense did he trick her? When he asked her to have unprotected sex? "

I believe, though it may not literally be true, that sexual partners have the responsibility to disclose if infected, and that by not doing so (if they know) they are tacitly deceiving.

"If you're going to break out two $5 words and use them in a row, you best believe you're getting called on it."

If you think puerile and misogyny are $5 words, I'd like to be paid by your scale.
posted by klangklangston at 1:57 PM on October 25, 2007


I demand examples of "puerile misogyny" asap, nickyskye.

Just a quick peruse of the comments, yields these:
I heard she has a big vagina.
posted by Sailormom at 9:56 AM on October 25 [1 favorite +] [!]

She can't post her pic. As such a vengeful and obvious BITCH, she'd never get another man for years, until people forgot about this. Herpes or no, (even if it were a curable STD like the clap) I don't think any "hipster" with an internet connection would hook up with her, and on top of that, I'm sure prospective employers would think twice about hiring such a twat.
posted by Debaser626 at 12:04 PM on October 25 [+] [!]

Before we proceed any further, we're going to need a picture of this young lady so we many accurately determine whether she is a nice girl who made a mistake, a vindictive bitch, or a stupid, ugly slut.
posted by fandango_matt at 8:45 AM on October 25 [8 favorites +] [!]
Ok, that last one wasn't puerile misogyny. It was actually a parody of the casual BoyZone misogyny we see on MetaFilter from time to time, and was incidentally quite funny. As much as I often share her outrage on the subject of misogyny, I'm not seeing it on this post, but could be that I missed something.

You guys wanna talk about Liz Phair, though?
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 2:01 PM on October 25, 2007


On that middle one I'll give you misogyny. On that first one, I think it was a misguided attempt at humor? But throw it in there, too, because I'm not actually sure.

klang, in a thread about big vaginas and herpsters, puerile and misogyny stand out as $5 words. But, if you got a higher score on the SATs than I did, so be it.
posted by sneakin at 2:14 PM on October 25, 2007


I believe, though it may not literally be true, that sexual partners have the responsibility to disclose if infected, and that by not doing so (if they know) they are tacitly deceiving.

Agreed. We have no evidence that this woman's partner knew anything about his HSV status, and indeed we have very little evidence of what his HSV status currently is. What we do have is a very bad reporter (the "Avenger") telling us what she thinks without backing it up with any evidence.

I was thinking about the part on her blog where she talks about how hard she was to convince to have sex sans condom (as if that were points in her favor), and I realized that what bothered me about it was that she was basically saying: "I knew it was a bad idea, I knew it was a really bad idea, I knew it was a really bad idea, but I decided to do it anyway after thinking about what a bad idea it was for a long time."
posted by OmieWise at 2:24 PM on October 25, 2007


posted by Tommy Gnosis Ok, [fandango_matt's comment] wasn't puerile misogyny. It was actually a parody of the casual BoyZone misogyny we see on MetaFilter from time to time, and was incidentally quite funny. As much as I often share her outrage on the subject of misogyny, I'm not seeing it on this post, but could be that I missed something.

Thanks, man.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:30 PM on October 25, 2007


Agreed. It was very funny.
posted by sneakin at 2:32 PM on October 25, 2007


Gawker:
"Williamsburg's 'Herpes Avenger' responds to concerns that she herself might be spreading something nasty: An untruth! 'Do i know that without a doubt, 100 % absolutely positively that Drew gave me herpes? Do we ever truly know anything?' Ha, all ontological and shit. But seriously: 'I spoke to my doctor, and going over my sexual history she agrees that it would be quite an amazing scientific feat for me to have coincidentally had my first outbreak of herpes the week after having unprotected sex with a shady character in the midst of two months of sexual isolation.' Okay, carry on."
posted by ericb at 2:40 PM on October 25, 2007


Somebody doesn't know what "ontological" means. Hint: she has herpes.
posted by kosem at 2:50 PM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


"what will seperate me from becoming a vindictive spiteful bitch who stares down a bottle of cheap merlot complaining that she will never get a boyfriend again?"

-- Posted by public health grrl (aka herpes avenger) at 5:04 PM.
I dunno. You tell us. Ya' think you have actual, substantiated proof that Drew is the source of your herpes? Are you certain that you haven't been a carrier for some time, showing little to no symptons until now? Could you have exposed Drew and not vice-versa? Any regrets regarding going so public with your accusation against Drew?

Let's see -- in time -- if your nom de plume might best be changed to 'Harpy Avenger!'
posted by ericb at 2:54 PM on October 25, 2007


sneakin, look them up in a dictionary. Then read the thread.

she could not confirm where she actually contracted HSV

She went to a professional and based on that information made her supposition, which would seem, according to some of the lawyers commenting on her blog to hold up in court.

OmieWise, I didn't use the words to trick or con, you did.

Does it seem like a mature response to adult behavior freely engaged in?

No. However, she wasn't apprised of his being a possible STD carrier, which he may or may not have known. We also do not know the story on his side and what communication took place between them.

Of the two, she strikes me as by far the more vicious and hurtful person.

It's likely she thought about the possibility that she might be sued for libel if her accusation were false and that she was convinced she knew she was telling the truth.

She bought the condom, gave it to him, made sure he put it on and then was persuaded by his argument that - mid-sex - it was difficult for him to keep an erection with the condom on and out of her stupid, caught up in the sex act pity for him, allowed him to take it off.

Shortly after that act she found she now has a painful and lifelong STD, which will impact far into her future, including the birth and well being of any child she bears, should she choose to have a child.

Mutual sex, mutual responsibility.

Another result of a sex act without a condom is a child. That result is taken to be both persons' responsibility. And knowingly passing on HIV, for example, is now considered murder. Criminal transmission of HIV.
posted by nickyskye at 3:02 PM on October 25, 2007


posted by nickyskye She bought the condom, gave it to him, made sure he put it on and then was persuaded by his argument that - mid-sex - it was difficult for him to keep an erection with the condom on and out of her stupid, caught up in the sex act pity for him, allowed him to take it off.

Or maybe she just wanted to keep on fucking.
posted by fandango_matt at 3:07 PM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


Both of them should just plain go to a doctor and get a scrip for some Valtrex

Hear, hear! Life with Valtrex looks at least 100 times more appealing than our bland day-to-day - romping with a sexy new partners on the beach or the slopes, and everyone's got great teeth and hair.

If I could get black market Valtrex, I'd give it a try sans the herp, just for the lifestyle.
posted by porn in the woods at 3:17 PM on October 25, 2007 [2 favorites]


Does herpes cause pinky-finger paralysis this soon after infection?

Does living in Williamsburg mean you're too cool for capitalization?

Use your damned shift key, woman.
posted by CKmtl at 3:20 PM on October 25, 2007


nickyskye, so, the crux of your argument is that "look them up and re-read?" Okay, done. Weak sauce, though. Commence the agreeing to disagree? As far as the criminal implications of passing on HIV, I don't really think you can indict Drew on that one. Since,as far as we know we're only talking herpes right now.

Or maybe she just wanted to keep on fucking.

Agreed.
posted by sneakin at 3:23 PM on October 25, 2007


"Results of a nationally representative study show that genital herpes infection is common in the United States. Nationwide, at least 45 million people ages 12 and older, or one out of five adolescents and adults, have had genital HSV infection. Between the late 1970s and the early 1990s, the number of Americans with genital herpes infection increased 30 percent.

Genital HSV-2 infection is more common in women (approximately one out of four women) than in men (almost one out of five)." *
posted by ericb at 3:32 PM on October 25, 2007


the crux of your argument

No, just not caving into your little temper tantrum and hate mongering, ie I demand examples of "puerile misogyny" asap and I hate her

If you think puerile and misogyny are "$5 words", can't help wondering what kind of grad school you're going to, or do you think it's cute playing stupid?
posted by nickyskye at 3:49 PM on October 25, 2007


*slobbers on screen, mashes keyboard with fist, signs name with "x"*
posted by sneakin at 3:53 PM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


Female Misogynists may openly accept sexism and sexual harassment because they dole it out just as potently as their male equivalents.
posted by nickyskye at 3:54 PM on October 25, 2007


First off, I'm pulling my hair out over her final post:
i've did what i set out to do

Secondly, not to defend this guy's behavior, but if I were a dude who didn't have the herp or didn't *know* I had the herp, and I had a one-night stand with some chick I barely knew who a week later was sending me an oddly-worded messages on MySpace of all venues accusing me of giving her and STD, I would go into crisis mode as well. I mean, I'd freak out, and make getting tested and tracing my sexual history my first priority.

So it's easy for me to entertain the fact that he either doesn't have the herp or didn't know he did and her diagnosis is simply freaking him out and he's not dealing with it in the most constructive way (but then again, neither is she) — perhaps that's why he hasn't contacted her. And now that she's taken the situation to the next level it's probably even harder for him to work up the nerve to contact her. Part of the reason it's so easy to make excuses is that we don't know his side of the story.

Another result of a sex act without a condom is a child. That result is taken to be both persons' responsibility.

Interesting point, nickskye. Supposing she hadn't contracted the herp somehow, but had instead wound up pregnant after this encounter and started a blog along the lines of "Douchbag hipster goin' round town impregnating people," expressing the same cavalier lack of responsibility and accountability for this outcome, would you still be sympathetic toward her?

I don't buy the letting him continue sans condom out of pity. She expressly states that she "needed to get laid" and that she went home with her second choice of the evening, so it's clear she was intending to have sex either way with whoever happened to come along. Nothing wrong with that but she can't then act like a victim of casual sex when she willingly partakes in it.

If my parents taught me anything its that, being a girl, a dude will do and say *anything* to stick his prick in me, and it's my responsibility alone to prevent that from happening if it's not what I want.

I don't see the boizone issue here. In fact I've been pleasantly impressed that this thread didn't devolve into pussy jokes and name-calling a long time ago
posted by Brittanie at 4:05 PM on October 25, 2007


"Supposing she hadn't contracted the herp somehow, but had instead wound up pregnant after this encounter and started a blog along the lines of "Douchbag hipster goin' round town impregnating people," expressing the same cavalier lack of responsibility and accountability for this outcome, would you still be sympathetic toward her?"

Depends. Is he still denying that the kid is his and that he was the one who knocked her up? If so, I would probably feel more sympathetic to her putting up posters that said "Drew got me pregnant and now won't pay child support."

But there's a whole social structure of legal remedies for that situation, and for this one, not so much.
posted by klangklangston at 4:27 PM on October 25, 2007


OmieWise, I didn't use the words to trick or con, you did.

Good point.

I have to admit I'm flabbergasted that people think it's ok to react as she did. Her blog rings of the most puerile self-justification, and her actions, based on supposition and no evidence, were vigilante and crudely cruel. Her own responsibility for her involvement is everywhere deprecated by both herself and her defenders. Her story, which is used to justify this cruel action contains within it more than enough contradictory evidence to engender reasonable doubt about the guilt of her lover, and despite this, people are happy to condemn him to a very harsh public shaming.

I just don't get it, and I've had to commit someone to the psych ward because they wanted to commit suicide after getting an HSV diagnosis.
posted by OmieWise at 6:32 PM on October 25, 2007


posted by OmieWise Her story, which is used to justify this cruel action contains within it more than enough contradictory evidence to engender reasonable doubt about the guilt of her lover, and despite this, people are happy to condemn him to a very harsh public shaming. I just don't get it

Welcome to the internets.

The people condemning Drew are reacting to the story in this fashion: A Cute Innocent Girl goes to a party hoping for a little fun with a boy she likes, but is instead waylaid and seduced by Drew The Lothario, who proceeds to cajole her into forgoing the use of a condom. He then infects her with his disease and cuts off all contact as he resumes his quest for more sexual conquests, leaving The Cute Innocent Girl marked as damaged goods with the scarlet letter of herpes. It's the classic story of the Innocent Virgin being deflowered by the Evil Experienced Player and there's little doubt the people condemning Drew see him as a wandering threat to their sisters, daughters, wives, and mothers--see also: Little Red Riding Hood, Dangerous Liasions, and The Scarlet Letter.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:55 PM on October 25, 2007 [1 favorite]


flabbergasted that people think it's ok to react as she did

Had the discussion about this situation been civil and adult I think comments about either of their actions would have been more level headed.
posted by nickyskye at 6:59 PM on October 25, 2007


What? Have I not been civil and adult in this thread?

Regardless, are you saying that your willingness to see a young guy pilloried is a reaction to the people commenting on this site?
posted by OmieWise at 7:09 PM on October 25, 2007


OmieWise, Did this thread consist of comments made only by you?

I didn't think your saying about the blogger, "What a fucking douche", was especially civil or adult, lol. But you've been quite civil and adult communicating with me however and I appreciate that. :)
posted by nickyskye at 8:21 PM on October 25, 2007


"Drew said...
I didn't give it to you. My pictures won't remain up forever. I talked to someone on my block who saw your flier and he was surprised that I am not mad at you for the accusation. Well, at first I was upset but I am gonna be the bigger person in this situation. Do I need to rehash for the world the condom conversation? You will not come out looking pretty. I haven't had any outbreaks or anything, but I am going to go get checked to make sure YOU didn't give me anything. Oh and guy number 1 at the party. The one you wanted to f@ck before "settling" on me. That guy apparently owes me a beer for saving him from exposure. Cheers!

October 23, 2007 8:25 PM"
posted by tellurian at 8:40 PM on October 25, 2007


Thanks for finding that tellurian, it's good to have a glimpse of the other side of equation.
posted by nickyskye at 9:23 PM on October 25, 2007


Thanks for that, Tellurian. That guy sounds like an incredible taste explosion of asshole.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:43 PM on October 25, 2007


"sometimes i walk around this city and i'm surrounded by millions of people but i just feel totally alone. "

See, now, this is why I don't a) read blogs or b) go to Williamsburg. But, shit, it sure is nice to read the first sentence of something and know there's no need to keep reading, isn't it?
posted by Football Bat at 12:25 AM on October 26, 2007


OmieWise, Did this thread consist of comments made only by you?

No, of course not, but since you were responding, and had been responding, to my comments I thought it was appropriate to ask.

She is a douche. She worked as hard as she could to humiliate someone she was angry with, despite weak evidence. You'll notice that I supported my conclusion about her with reasons and reasoning, in marked contrast to the supposition that grounds the "vigilante justice is warranted" crowd.
posted by OmieWise at 4:32 AM on October 26, 2007


What does this say about Williamsburg? What does this say about herpes? Can actually conclusions be drawn from this, or just generalizations?
posted by iamck at 6:53 AM on October 26, 2007


Can actually conclusions be drawn from this, or just generalizations?

Conclusions:
1. Williamsburg is a neighborhood in Brooklyn.
2. Some young white adults are still having relatively unsafe sex.
3. Some people act out in relatively anti-social ways upon learning that they have contracted STDs.
4. The words puerile and misogyny are worth, in the aggregate, something less than USD 5 apiece.
posted by psmealey at 7:27 AM on October 26, 2007 [3 favorites]


Psmealey wins this thread.

However, he forgot one important fact...


Metafilter: herpsters who have hippies.
posted by Sam.Burdick at 7:43 AM on October 26, 2007


Omie, don't ignore the fact that he cut off all communication with her after being told she had an outbreak a week after their coupling. This is puerile, and fits the profile of someone who's not facing what they MAY have in their bloodstream. Denying communication is a form of abuse, and while she may take all the proper measures to treat herself, I think this is a fine method of taking the shitheel to task. He probably leaned back in his chair after blocking her on MySpace and thought he got away scott-free.

The level of evidence you require is compelling.

Good to know: was she tested since her last partner two months prior? is it possible to identify the strains of herpes that lie dormant for months?

I've been falsely accused by a casual partner, much more viciously than this. That hasn't made me lose empathy for someone done wrong.
posted by Busithoth at 8:20 AM on October 26, 2007


I think this is a fine method of taking the shitheel to task.

No. No it isn't. It is eminently reasonable to require compelling evidence before embarking on a public smear campaign. Even if he recklessly transmitted an STD to this person (and it is far from clear that he did, by the way), blasting the internet with his name and picture is a mile beyond taking the "shitheel" to task--and he might well be a shitheel. Then again, he might not be. You haven't a clue.

What you do have is an accuser hiding behind the veil of anonymity outing someone in the most public of forums on inconclusive evidence that he is the vector in the first place, and impossibly inconclusive evidence of his "knowing" transmission. Until she's got her ducks completely in a row, this type of nuclear public shaming is unbelievably irresponsible. If it turns out that he knew he had the STD, failed to disclose it and spread it to her through indifference or outright deception, then and only then is behavior like this even remotely acceptable.

For one second imagine that you are this guy. That your colleagues are snickering in the hall, that your employer calls you into the conference room to ask you what the hell is going on, or worse. There are potentially serious real-world consequences to this sort of vigilantism---it's not just a litigator's paranoia. I have seen it happen.
posted by kosem at 8:46 AM on October 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


Omie, don't ignore the fact that he cut off all communication with her after being told she had an outbreak a week after their coupling.

Maybe he cut off communication with her because she's a bloody psycho... which as evidenced by her public and outrageous behavior she certainly appears to be.

I don't know where this woman is getting her medical advice from. Nthing that the elapsed time for herpes sores to appear from exposure can be anywhere from a few weeks to a year or even more. The fact that she didn't have sex with anyone else in the two months immediately prior is certainly not enough evidence to back up her claim.
posted by Gervais Brooke-Hamster at 9:06 AM on October 26, 2007


Omie, don't ignore the fact that he cut off all communication with her after being told she had an outbreak...Denying communication is a form of abuse

What? Read that last part to yourself again. A form of abuse? In what possible sense, in the real world, is it abusive to stop talking with someone?

I said above that I don't want to defend this guy, and I don't, but we have no idea what his motivations are. Further, we have only the vigilante's word for how things went down between them. Read her blog again, it's filled with narcissistic self-justification. I don't trust her reporting enough to authorize whatever actions she wants to take based on it.

I don't require compelling evidence, I require any evidence. All we know is that she engaged in consensual unsafe sex, that she says she has herpes and that there is some likelihood that she got it from this guy. Beyond that we know nothing, and knowing nothing is not enough for me to feel like it's ok to try to shame someone in a vindictive, puerile and destructive way.

WTF? Seriously!?!
posted by OmieWise at 9:11 AM on October 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


I do think you've hit on something with the use of the word abuse, though. I think some of the sympathy for this woman may stem from the feeling that something bad was "done to" her. It wasn't. She contracted a disease. She now has the disease. It wasn't a trauma or abuse, and it's no one's "fault." Just because the world is an unfair place doesn't mean we get to assign the blame to proximate causes.

No one "gave you" that cold, you just fucking got it. Everyone gets colds. Wash your goddamn hands.
posted by OmieWise at 9:24 AM on October 26, 2007 [2 favorites]


I do think you've hit on something with the use of the word abuse, though. I think some of the sympathy for this woman may stem from the feeling that something bad was "done to" her.

I think that anyone who has gotten an STD is going to understand her anger to a certain degree, as well as anyone who's hooked up with someone, only to be never called again.

But in this case, there's only a superficial relationship. Once you've gotten the STD through consensual unsafe sex, then there isn't really anyone to be mad at, except yourself for voluntarily allowing yourself to contract an STD. *If* this guy knew he had herpes and was knowingly spreading it, then we could also be angry at him, but not only do we not know that, it still wouldn't diminish this person's responsibility for willingly practicing unsafe sex. If you don't want STDs, either don't have sex or try to be as safe as possible. Those are your two options.

As for cutting off communication, it seems fairly obvious from her first message that she's not interested in actually communicating with him - she wants to blame him for all that has happened to her, because apparently she sees herself as a pathetic whelp who somehow, accidentally, and through some strange mesmerism on his part, fell on his dick. Repeatedly. Without a condom.

As opposed to dealing with the fact that she made a momentary unwise decision, one that many otherwise intelligent people make, and now she has to deal with this relatively permanent reality. Scary stuff, if you see yourself as a clean, brilliant little angel.

I've mentioned this before, but her tone so truly reminds me of the HSV+ person I know who has unsafe sex but does not admit to their own condition. This person, who's a bit of a vain control freak in daily life, would never admit to having contracted an illness due to their own poor judgement, so this person instead has this (unintentionally comic) vocal projection onto others who this person sees as being dirty/slutty. This person thinks their herpes has simply "gone away," to boot! And yet all that anger against, you know, all those OTHER people who have unsafe sex.

Put more simply, the Williamsburg Avenger's righteous indignation comes off as projection, denial, blabbity blah. All manner of ways so that she can see herself as a wronged victim as opposed to an imperfect schlub like the rest of us.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:49 AM on October 26, 2007


Settlement reached in Michael Vick herpes case.
posted by nickyskye at 2:00 PM on October 26, 2007


I stand by the assertion that withholding communication is a form of abuse. It's an aggressive move, typically denied it is any action. It spares a person from confrontation, while forcing the other person to grapple with the question unresolved. If you've been spared this treatment, then count yourself lucky.

I notice that this whole case acts as a great canvas for me (and others) to project what they like onto the actors.
Maybe I shouldn't have embraced her tactics. I live in the neighborhood, and saw none of these 400 flyers, and so maybe downplayed their effect/distribution.
I also figure that she could (and should) be dragged into small claims court for spouting lies of this caliber, if they are lies.

She may have been completely off the wall when she contacted him, but if he's lying about being unaware of his being positive, then she did him a service by letting him know he'd just fucked someone who tested positive for it.
And how is anyone supposed to find out he was cognizant of his infection beforehand? If he just hung up on whomever tells him, he can keep denying. Judging from that myspace photo, he'd cave in a head-on interrogation about it, so...no talky.

And I in no way meant to lessen her blame. Her part is equal, if not greater. But I credit her effort to keep others from experiencing what she did. I couldn't just walk away and 'let it be' knowing there was someone out there who either couldn't acknowledge they were infected (for whatever reason) or simply didn't care.

To hear her tell it (and that is all we have to go on, granted) he was really pushing for going bareback. Doing so while infected with a disease that sticks with you for life is pretty outrageous.

Also, anyone who says a condom is no problem for a guy to hold his erection is full of shit. You need to shop around for the right one, it's not a one-size-fits-all sort of thing. The wrong one can get you to flaccid-ville faster than pictures of roasted puppies, flayed nuns, or E! programming.
posted by Busithoth at 3:26 PM on October 26, 2007 [1 favorite]


She may have been completely off the wall when she contacted him ... [Withholding communication]'s an aggressive move ... It spares a person from confrontation, while forcing the other person to grapple with the question unresolved.

So, suppose she was completely off the wall when she tried to get in touch with him. According to what tellurian found, the guy hadn't had an outbreak (if he's the one who infected her) or he was negative beforehand. How is he being abusive or aggressive by not answering - from his POV - a raving lunatic's emails and MySpace messages? He could've said "I've never had an outbreak, as far as I know I'm negative." But given how angry and self-righteous she's shown herself to be, that probably would've just resulted in her accusing him of lying on top of everything else. And she could've scrawled "I'M A LIAR!!" on the fliers as well.

I also figure that she could (and should) be dragged into small claims court for spouting lies of this caliber, if they are lies.

Even if it's the truth, he might be able to get her on invasion of privacy.

I couldn't just walk away and 'let it be' knowing there was someone out there who either couldn't acknowledge they were infected (for whatever reason) or simply didn't care. ... [Barebacking] while infected with a disease that sticks with you for life is pretty outrageous.

Again, judging by the guy's (albeit short, one paragraph) side of the story, he didn't know. Him not answering her messages isn't proof that he did know he had it when he they jointly decided to forego the rubber.

But I credit her effort to keep others from experiencing what she did.

She could've done that public service without involving him. She could've slapped up fliers reminding all these smart, talented "pseudo-intellectuals" to be more careful. She could've volunteered to speak to highschool students or something. Saying "Don't fuck this one particular guy, because I think he gave me cooties" doesn't do a whole lot to keep others from contracting STDs.
posted by CKmtl at 4:03 PM on October 26, 2007


Standing by your term "abuse" is fine, but you still haven't said why it's a term that applies. It's a pretty fucking loaded term to apply to cutting off contact with someone who has sent you a really irate email. It continues to make me think you haven't really thought about the implications of your investment.

But I credit her effort to keep others from experiencing what she did.

This pretty much sums up the problem with the pro-vigilante crowd: it's patently obvious that she put up flyers to shame and damage him. That she glossed that as somehow doing a public service can't hide the level of aggrieved righteousness in everything she wrote. If you sincerely believe that she had altruistic motives then you are a very bad reader and don't understand people.
posted by OmieWise at 4:14 PM on October 26, 2007


Delayed realization:

So, one is under the impression that this woman putting up these fliers is a laudable public service. It's great that he won't get the chance to pass it on to others, etc etc.

Would it also be a laudable public service to hack AskMe, track down all those diseased Mefites and/or their partners and roomates, and put up similar fliers in their neighbourhoods? They didn't do me any wrong, but it'll keep others from catching their respective STDs.
posted by CKmtl at 4:34 PM on October 26, 2007


Ok, I'll go now too.

But I credit her effort to keep others from experiencing what she did.

You can only credit her if you accept that:
1. She can demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt that she contracted herpes from the guy and was not already incubating it before the hook-up.
2. She can demonstrate that he will make every effort to infect at least one other Williamsburg women in the same manner.

Neither of these things appear to be true. Maybe she gets credit for the "I didn't use a condom, and my sex life is going to be a real drag from now on" message, but I think we see enough of that in daily life.
posted by Tommy Gnosis at 6:15 PM on October 26, 2007


The blog is gone.
posted by fandango_matt at 10:50 PM on October 26, 2007


nickyskye, how would you feel about a guy who reacted this way to a woman from whom he'd contracted herpes? Everyone had to get it from someone - whoever gave it to this woman wasn't born with it. He was once a "victim" too (assuming he'd ever had an outbreak and was aware he was a carrier, which, as has been noted multiple times, is not a given).

As above, she just seems to have freaked out about an unfortunate occurrence. It's interesting, too, that apparently 1 in 5 people are positive for this disease, and a lot of comments note that it's mostly just a social stigma, but then right in the middle of the thread is a story of someone nearly going blind, and according to various sites, it can cause serious birth defects or neurological problems, so it seems like a pretty unpredictable condition. It's also not clear how easily it's transmitted or activated - there are some stories of people who've apparently had it for 30 years without knowing it until one day it suddenly shifts into gear, and others where apparently a person is infected by one stupid act and the symptoms show up immediately.

Basically, she's pissed at the world and blames the guy for it, but it's her fault first - she knew the risk of unprotected sex (and it's certainly not true that "everyone does it"). You could also say it's nature's "fault" (diseases suck, what can you do?) and yes, it's his fault secondarily, assuming he knew he had it. If he knew, he definitely should have told her, and absolutely should have refused to have unprotected sex, but maybe he is on meds, had convinced himself it wasn't a big deal (the way some comments have downplayed it here), and/or was just desperate to get laid so did something he knew was wrong. I'm not saying that's good behavior, but it's not done with the intent to cause harm; it's done through the same kind of rationalization and disregard for real possibilities that her behavior shows. The only difference is that he may have been more aware of real risks (though if he really has herpes, you'd think he'd have learned a little bit of a lesson at least...)

From his perspective he's as much a victim of the disease as she is now, not some evil Infector. Now she has to tell anyone she has sex with about her condition before they hook up - will she blog about how that goes?
posted by mdn at 10:06 AM on October 27, 2007


Settlement reached in Michael Vick herpes case.

My first thought: Did Michael Vick give herpes to those poor dogs on top of everything else?
posted by the_bone at 4:33 PM on November 3, 2007


For those coming late (as it were), here is the Google Cache of stdallstars.blogspot.com
posted by spock at 5:20 PM on November 3, 2007


Puerile is a $5 word, since childish or immature would suffice. Also, Ron Mexico is a fantastic alias.
posted by mrgrimm at 1:15 PM on November 5, 2007 [1 favorite]


mrgrimm, since it was paired with the basic word misogyny as being in the 5 buck category, the implication was the commenter was undereducated. The point was exactly that, many commenters were being immature in an ugly way in this thread and my use of the term puerile was intentionally denigrating. A simple word like childish was too good for that idiocy.
posted by nickyskye at 2:45 PM on November 5, 2007


When the Herpes vaccine goes live, people will have less of an excuse to be arses.
posted by meehawl at 9:11 AM on November 12, 2007


« Older French Theory   |   No nudes is good nudes? Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post