Comments on: 20,000 Pounds of Sodium Dumped in a Lake

20,000 Pounds of Sodium Dumped in a Lake

polysigma — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:00:26 -0800

A rather interesting post WW II video of metallic sodium being disposed of in a lake. You might have seen this on a small scale back in high school chemistry class when the teacher put a tiny sliver of sodium in a bowl of water.

By: ClanvidHorse

ClanvidHorse — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:12:01 -0800

Ach that's nothing, in my school we had to drink Irn Bru or Coca Cola wi freshly sliced potassium in it on the first day in the class.

By: DU

DU — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:18:45 -0800

"The alkali lake is devoid of fish and forms an admirable disposal spot" How did the lake get alkali? (I'm not blaming, I'm just curious.) I wasn't able to find a "Lake Linole" in Washington, probably due to spelling. Also, the video says they are destroying it because "no public carrier will deliver it to a purchaser"....but they drove it on a truck to get it to the lake, right? Why can't they deliver it themselves?

By: spock

spock — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:22:01 -0800

Crikey, I've never seen what looked like a lake burning before, but then I didn't live near Lake Erie in the 70's.

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:23:37 -0800

I love the star wars styled closing message. Almost as dramatic as the chemical reaction.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:26:16 -0800

More people should talk like that announcer.

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:44 -0800

I think it's Lake Lenore.

By: spock

spock — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:27:51 -0800

Lake Lenore, WA

By: fearfulsymmetry

fearfulsymmetry — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:28:45 -0800

Beat that diet coke / mento boys!

By: tellurian

tellurian — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:29:00 -0800

Awesome! Yes, yes I did witness this in high school chemistry class. Part of the excitement was watching that sliver skip and jump across the surface of the water as it spluttered and smoked. Why didn't the same thing happen, but on a bigger scale, with this disposable? Was it the ice that contained it?

By: DU

DU — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:31:10 -0800

Seems to have fish now, and probably then too: lake Lenore's 1670 acres is too alkaline to support fish other than Lahontan cutthroat. Liberal Media circa 1947

By: fandango_matt

fandango_matt — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:39:21 -0800

If sodium is a naturally-occuring element in nature, would dumping it in a lake be bad? I realize this is probably a no-brainer, but I'm seriously wondering how or if dumping a bunch of sodium in a lake would have long-term effects on the lake. Would it?

By: tellurian

tellurian — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:41:56 -0800

More people should talk like that announcer. Word. Ben Grauer - "in 1957 the animated Peacock logo made its debut, with a musical score by Lou Garisto and the voice was Ben Grauer! "The following program is brought to you in Living Color on N B C." Indeed it was Grauer who first spoke these now famous words behind the legendary Peacock graphic logo."

By: DU

DU — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:43:48 -0800

Uranium is a naturally-occurring element in nature. Have some on your breakfast cereal.

By: spock

spock — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:43:50 -0800

Interesting 1958 article on a study of two alkaline lakes in Washington, including Lake Lenore: (PDF) The study period seems to have begun in 1949-1950, which is interesting.

By: mephron

mephron — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:52:36 -0800

fandango_matt: Sodium rarely occurs in the metallic form in nature, being found almost exclusively in compounds with other elements (sodium chloride, et cetera). It wasn't isolated in metallic form until 1807. So it's naturally-occuring, but not by itself. As far as the long-term effects are concerned, I'm not sure - been a long time since chemisty class. Sodium is very, very happy to combine with other atoms, and... hm. Depending on how alkaline the lake would be, you might get some interesting distributions of caustic soda and other sodium-based compounds throughout it.

By: tellurian

tellurian — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:54:30 -0800

Interesting 1958 article Do you have to be registered? I've got one page of readable copyright and 18 of blank (but with thumbnails of what looks like formatted text).

By: aramaic

aramaic — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:58:29 -0800

Well, probably woulda been a hell of a lot of sodium hydroxide produced. Yikes.

By: KirkJobSluder

KirkJobSluder — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:58:40 -0800

fandango_matt: The answer to these sorts of questions usually depend on how much and how fast. Abrupt changes in water chemistry are usually more disruptive than long-term changes. Also while small changes in chemistry are often buffered by the system to reach equilibrium, large changes such as 20,000 lbs can overwhelm the system's capacity.

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:59:09 -0800

What would it have been used for during the war?

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 06:59:58 -0800

The rest of it was dumped as incendinary bombs onto German and Japanese cities. Didn't do much for the fish in those lakes either.

By: Mach5

Mach5 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:05:02 -0800

2Na + 2H20 -> 2NaOH + H2, right?

By: StickyCarpet

StickyCarpet — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:07:33 -0800

skip and jump across the surface of the water as it spluttered and smoked Another cool thing about a chunk of sodium is how it looks like a barnacle encrusted rock, but you can scoop into it with a spoon and the exposed part looks like silver metal.

By: aerotive

aerotive — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:35:41 -0800

My high school had part of the science lab badly damaged by some potassium that had been forgotten about. Eventually the medium it was stored in degraded and it finally went -boom-.

By: Fupped Duck

Fupped Duck — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:46:54 -0800

nice foley work with the asplosionz

By: tehloki

tehloki — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 07:53:19 -0800

Damnit, I would have taken some of that sodium.

By: tellurian

tellurian — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:07:23 -0800

Another cool thing about a chunk of sodium is how it looks like a barnacle encrusted rock, but you can scoop into it with a spoon and the exposed part looks like silver metal. Sorry, are we talking about the same thing? From my (long ago - over 35 years) memory, it was like a small chunk of flaky rock (no barnacle like extuberances). It was shaved quite easily with a scalpel. The chances of scooping it with a spoon were slim because it ran around the experimental dish at a prodigious rate. Caveat: I know that chemical reactions don't change but my memory does. Profit: A nice walk down memory lane.

By: Rancid Badger

Rancid Badger — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:12:55 -0800

knew a grad student who put a 1lb in a pond, it was very impressive. I do not know if the sodium was a problem but the Toluene it was stored; to prevent it from oxidizing when exposed to humidity in the atmosphere, was a problem. The grad student flunked stat thermo and had to go else where to finish his PhD.

By: escabeche

escabeche — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:13:59 -0800

My high school chemistry teacher showed us an nth generation bootleg videotape of some guy (maybe another chemistry teacher?) tossing a chunk of sodium into a pond behind his house. That there's some good pedagogy.

By: hangashore

hangashore — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:16:51 -0800

tellurian: I think StickyCarpet is talking about those sodium chunks that are as big as a soda can. Those you can cut, slice, and scoop (yup, done that), but for Jeebus' sake do it under lots of paraffin oil.

By: hangashore

hangashore — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:19:05 -0800

escabeche: Sodium Party.

By: spock

spock — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:35:18 -0800

1958 article: try this one.

By: Grod

Grod — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:43:08 -0800

I love the style of newsreels. The voice, the music, why don't we have newsreels anymore? Aside from television, more sophisticated audiences, and all the other valid reasons? With all the free floating nostalgia and false nostalgia someone else must have thought 'let's bring back newsreels.'

By: Nelson

Nelson — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:49:46 -0800

MIT students have an annual tradition of the sodium drop. The year I watched it they dumped about a pound off a bridge into the Charles River. It went foomph.

By: krinklyfig

krinklyfig — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 08:57:37 -0800

Grod writes "I love the style of newsreels. The voice, the music, why don't we have newsreels anymore? Aside from television, more sophisticated audiences, and all the other valid reasons? With all the free floating nostalgia and false nostalgia someone else must have thought 'let's bring back newsreels.'" Can you imagine those done with the production and talent of a network like, say, MSNBC or Fox News? Cause that's what it would look like if done today.

By: bonehead

bonehead — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:14:10 -0800

tellurian, it's the same stuff. It's common to store sodium in oil so that it stays shiny. If you don't, the surface oxidizes to a white, fragile, barnacled coating. Sodium is so soft that it can easly be cut with a spoon. Small pieces of sodium skate on water on a cushion of hydrogen gas. The heat from the hydration reaction causes the hydrogen to ignite. Metallic sodium gives the flame it's chracteristic colour. Mach5: that's exactly what happens when sodium hits water.

By: bonehead

bonehead — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:18:12 -0800

fandango_matt: it causes the water to go strongly basic near the metal. This can easily cause local fish kills, but it gets diluted and swept away very quickly, within minutes. As will all things like this, it's an exposure issue. How long are the organisms exposed. In high currents, like rivers, this can be almost instantaneous. In calm waters, like an undrained or slow-moving lake, a big sodium or lye spill cen sterilize the lake for an entire season.

By: Partial Law

Partial Law — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:18:32 -0800

Smaller quantities of more reactive alkali metals.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:38:34 -0800

Buy your own sodium (scroll down) and re-enact this event!

By: Orange Pamplemousse

Orange Pamplemousse — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 09:38:48 -0800

What would it have been used for during the war? Manufacture of chlorine gas from salt (2NaCl -> 2Na + Cl2) comes to mind. Just a guess though.

By: Rancid Badger

Rancid Badger — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:18:44 -0800

During World War II, sodium was used to make synthetic rubber as a substitute for natural rubber supplies, which were controlled by the Japanese.

By: Slarty Bartfast

Slarty Bartfast — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:47:58 -0800

How can I do this at Burning Man next year? Can you even do things like this at Burning Man anymore?

By: quin

quin — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 10:56:11 -0800

Damn it, Partial Law beat me to the Brainiac link, which I found astonishing when I first saw it. I've often wondered what a rubidium or cesium cored bullet would do, then I shudder and push the concept from my mind. There are some things that the world doesn't need to experiment with.

By: schyler523

schyler523 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 11:50:01 -0800

Is there enough water to do something like this at burning man?

By: scalefree

scalefree — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 12:38:41 -0800

My high school chemistry teacher was something of a pyro. When a thumb-sized chunk of sodium started to go bad he tossed it into the courtyard which had about a foot of snow covering it. Pillar of fire.

By: Tube

Tube — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 16:12:18 -0800

I'll bet a disk of sodium would make an interesting hockey puck...

By: dasheekeejones

dasheekeejones — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:16:12 -0800

"A once lethal wartime chemical becomes a pyrotechnic display!" Now watch the pretty destruction, Jimmy. Don't forget to cover your junk, though. And what's with the patriotic music?

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Thu, 01 Nov 2007 22:05:15 -0800

The accompanying editorial is charmingly stupid. Dumping sodium metal into an alkali lake causes no harm at all.