Spain’s King to Chavez: ‘Why don’t you shut up’

November 13, 2007 5:58 PM

"Why don't you shut up."Spanish King Juan Carlos on Saturday angrily told President Hugo Chavez to shut up as the Venezuelan leader was involved in a heated verbal exchange with the head of the Spanish government, Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. Youtube video
posted by semmi (60 comments total)

You had me at "Spanish King Juan Carlos".
posted by DU at 6:04 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Meh, that's nothing. Our king told a sitting senator to go fuck himself.
posted by felix betachat at 6:09 PM on November 13, 2007 [20 favorites]

That's kind of awesome. Spaniards don't really appreciate people throwing around the term "fascist" lightly. I'm not sure of King Juan Carlos's legal status, but this isn't the first time he's gotten involved in a tense political situation. He helped put down a coup in 1981.
posted by footnote at 6:10 PM on November 13, 2007

And we care because?

I mean, I guess I would be surprised if someone like queen Elizabeth did something like that, but is Spain's King normally as reserved? I mean a somewhat testy exchange between politicians? Woah!!!
posted by delmoi at 6:11 PM on November 13, 2007

That was pretty awesome. I love how you could tell he was losing patience, and then he popped back up with what sounded to me like "¡Callate!" - but since I was expecting it, he might have used a different construction.

I couldn't catch all of what Zapatero was saying, my Spanish has gone totally out the window, but it sounded something like "Your position is contrary to all logic." Surely someone better at this could tell us.
posted by Medieval Maven at 6:12 PM on November 13, 2007

I mean, I guess I would be surprised if someone like queen Elizabeth did something like that

Because the British aren't testy the way those hotblooded Spaniards are, amirite folks????

Anyway, Chavez is simply a boorish douche, while Juan Carlos is my new favorite sitting European monarch.
posted by dhammond at 6:15 PM on November 13, 2007

Zapatero was saying that he demanded respect for the former prime minister of Spain, Aznar, because he was elected by the Spanish people.

This came as a response to Chavez calling Aznar a fascist for allegedly supporting the 2002 coup against him.
posted by micayetoca at 6:16 PM on November 13, 2007

And we care because?

We're MetaFilter. We comment. Because we care.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:16 PM on November 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

My Spanish is admittedly high schoolish, but I picked up the fact that Chavez was making fun of Juan Carlos looking like the Burger King mascot guy. Or not enough like him.

Either way, that warranted a "¡Callate!", no?
posted by John of Michigan at 6:17 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Because the British aren't testy the way those hotblooded Spaniards are, amirite folks????

I was talking about one specific person.
posted by delmoi at 6:17 PM on November 13, 2007

oh... snap?
posted by patr1ck at 6:33 PM on November 13, 2007

Why should you care, Delmoi? Because Juan Carlos knows a thing or two about fascism and has been instrumental in bringing his country from near feudalism to leading economic growth in Europe in less than 20 years.

Granted, he himself wasn't behind most of that growth, but Juan Carlos was one of those men who was offered the choice: supreme power, or democracy. Francisco Franco brought Juan Carlos back into the fold in Spain during his dictatorship with the belief that Juan Carlos would carry on the Republican (read: fascist and feudal) traditions. Instead, when Franco died in 1975 Juan Carlos had a choice and he decided to go the path of democracy.

Chavez is a two bit dictatorial whore who will do whatever is necessary to retain power, just like every other damned dictator throughout history - he has needed someone to put him in his place for any number of years. Juan Carlos was just the man to do it.

Say what you will about monarchies in general, but the Bourbon family in Spain helped take the country from third world status to leadership in the blink of an eye. I have a number of close family and friends in Spain who lived through the Civil War, the dictatorship and reconstruction after Franco's death. Juan Carlos, warts and all, will always be revered in my mind.
posted by tgrundke at 6:33 PM on November 13, 2007 [7 favorites]

"Fascist" is the Spanish "Nazi", and in modern context it means the same thing: "anyone who doesn't agree with me".
posted by kjs3 at 6:36 PM on November 13, 2007

KJC was also responsible for putting down a coup attempt in 1981 when the military tried to put a stop to the transition to democracy underway since Franco's death. I have friends who recall tanks on the streets of Madrid and the king going on the airwaves to quash the putsch. His anti-fascism cred is pretty solid.
posted by donpedro at 6:43 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

My Spanish is admittedly high schoolish, but I picked up the fact that Chavez was making fun of Juan Carlos looking like the Burger King mascot guy. Or not enough like him.

Either way, that warranted a "¡Callate!", no?

Sounds about right to me. you yankee Burger King mascot
posted by nola at 6:46 PM on November 13, 2007

Now if he had said "Why don't you shut up, you sweat from a baboon's balls," that would really have been something!
posted by scarabic at 6:54 PM on November 13, 2007

Of course, criticizing Aznar for being a fascist shouldn't really be a big deal. The man has said before that he still considers himself a falangist. I'm also not sure what the Spanish are doing sending the king to these kinds of meetings, isn't he supposed to be a figurehead only, like in most constitutional monarchies? If the prime minister was at the meeting, it seems strange that the king would also be taking part in the debate.

Also, the king was being deliberately rude to Chavez, using the informal "tu" instead of the formal "usted", which would be normal in the situation. In fact, most coverage I've seen in Spanish-language press seems to focus on the king's outburst being unusual, not what Chavez did.

And, you know, Chavez' comments afterwards were right on, Chavez is elected by the people, the king's not.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 6:57 PM on November 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Not "¡Callate!", but "Por favor, se calla" which is more "Please shut up." So a bit more polite than "Why don't you shut up."

(And what's the point of being king if you can't another head of state to shut up?)
posted by needled at 6:58 PM on November 13, 2007

Yeah I'd be pissed at someone who supported a coup against me, too. Might even use a derrogatory term or two, you know how it is.
posted by Space Coyote at 7:01 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

First against the wall when the revolution comes...

Hey, is the king of Spain still Magneto?
posted by Artw at 7:02 PM on November 13, 2007

Chavez was elected by the people but he has the pretensions of his hero, the great liberator Bolivar, who turned into an autocratic dictator later in his life, just like Chavez will. I wish the King used a super witty put down, like something attributed to Parker or Churchill. That would have been more regal.
posted by Falconetti at 7:04 PM on November 13, 2007

Chavez led a coup attempt against Carlos Andres Perez in 1992. Hard for me to work up any sympathy now that he's felt that shoe on the other foot.

the king was being deliberately rude to Chavez, using the informal "tu" instead of the formal "usted", which would be normal in the situation

In my experience, usage of "tu" in that context is to emphasize that the person being addressed has been unnecessarily rude. It's a put-down, sure, but not an undeserved one.
posted by ambrosia at 7:11 PM on November 13, 2007

needled, etc: Actually, he says "por que no te callas?" which is, indeed, "why don't you shut up?"
posted by heydanno at 7:23 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Chavez is simply a boorish douche

how true, and an evil dictator to boot, and those are his good qualities, nevertheless, like any good capo, he gives back some small amount to the neighborhood to keep the neighbors on his side
posted by caddis at 7:24 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

Te = as addressed to a child. Surprised this three day old story is so unknown to most US MeFites. Got a lot of coverage in Europe
posted by A189Nut at 7:27 PM on November 13, 2007

Ahem. I don't beleive he's currently a dictator (though things are kind of going that way), and wether an American controlled puppet would be any better for the people of Venezuela is kind of questionable.
posted by Artw at 7:27 PM on November 13, 2007

Ahem. I don't beleive he's currently a dictator

walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, might actually be .....
posted by caddis at 7:30 PM on November 13, 2007

Those two Spanish cartoonists should have portrayed Juan Carlos ramming Chavez in the ass. That would have been a total burn.

And the cartoonists probably wouldn't have been fined.

Cartoonists fined for sex parody

Damaging the prestige of the crown? Heh, I laugh at your quaint laws, Spain.
posted by strontiumdog at 7:50 PM on November 13, 2007

Ahem. I don't beleive he's currently a dictator (though things are kind of going that way)

Ahem (just to perpetuate the snarky goodness).

For some of us, the in-progress legislative coup to allow unlimited rule and eliminate legal opposition, brutal suppression of any dissent, cultivation of a "thug class" to provide some extra-judicial muscle is a pretty good argument that things will not end well. You're right about the "current", but if you really need to wait for him to declare himself El Presidente for Life to say "hmmmmm", don't be surprised if some of us appraise your surprise and remark "dumbass".

wether an American controlled puppet would be any better

Because a Castroist dictator or an American puppet are the only options...
posted by kjs3 at 7:55 PM on November 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

And we care because?

Because Chavez is a big mean nasty anti-American.
posted by pompomtom at 7:57 PM on November 13, 2007 [1 favorite]

And we care because?

We don't care that you don't care, in case you care.
posted by pax digita at 8:05 PM on November 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

Ahem. I don't beleive he's currently a dictator

walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, might actually be .....
posted by caddis at 7:30 PM on November 13 [+] [!]

A ducktator?
posted by MrVisible at 8:05 PM on November 13, 2007 [4 favorites]

And we care because?

Because it's fun to watch the cartoonishly pompous martinet Hugo Chávez Frías get ripped for once, even if it's by another pompous martinet?
posted by blucevalo at 8:06 PM on November 13, 2007

...the in-progress legislative coup to allow unlimited rule and eliminate legal opposition, brutal suppression of any dissent, cultivation of a "thug class" to provide some extra-judicial muscle is a pretty good argument that things will not end well...

Wait, is this thread about Myanmar, the US, or Venezuela?
posted by mwhybark at 8:50 PM on November 13, 2007

the king was being deliberately rude to Chavez, using the informal "tu" instead of the formal "usted", which would be normal in the situation.

I thought a king was entitled by virtue of his status to address non-royalty as "tu"?
posted by nasreddin at 8:58 PM on November 13, 2007

The King has increased Chavez's power and prestige, and both men knew it instantly; pictures in the immediate aftermath show Chavez looking absolutely delighted, and the King compressing his lips in chagrin.
posted by jamjam at 9:03 PM on November 13, 2007

Ah, the two words most antithetical to open thought... "Shut up."

Sorry, I'm with Chavez on this one.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:25 PM on November 13, 2007 [3 favorites]

Oh please, Civil_Disobedient, sometimes "shut up" just means "shut your mouth and wait for your turn to speak". It's not always about censorship and whatnot.

And you obviously need to know more about Chavez, cause I don't think you ever want to be *with* him...on anything. That man's making a mess of Venezuela.
posted by CrazyLemonade at 10:09 PM on November 13, 2007

Count me as one of the people who was outraged that we would attempt a coup against a democratically elected leader (Chavez), happy that Venezuela finally had a leader who would speak for it's poor citizens, but then grew slowly disillusioned with his subsequent march into Castroesque buffoonery and madness.

Whats ironic about Chavez' comment ("Oh yea? At least I'm ELECTED, MR BURGER KING lol") is that he's actually setting himself up to have more power and dictatorial control than Spain's unelected hereditary monarch.

Eventually, Chavez will do more to harm socialism or even basic reforms in South America than he could ever hope to help. "Shut up", indeed, Mr. Chavez.
posted by Avenger at 10:33 PM on November 13, 2007

Chavez is elected by the people, the king's not

heh
posted by chlorus at 11:00 PM on November 13, 2007

Question for Spanish speakers in the house. The King actually says something before at about -0:18 seconds, gesticulating at Chavez. What was that?
posted by the cydonian at 11:12 PM on November 13, 2007

I'm worried about some things Chavez is doing, but he's definitely not a dictator, he was just reelected. Also, most criticisms against him seem to focus on his statements and behaviour, which are admittedly buffoonish, but they don't really matter if he's doing good stuff in the country.

Politically, he doesn't seem very extreme, actually, the policies he's instated seem like good old social democracy to me.

Also, the whole quashing dissent thing, well, probably to an extent, but the private owned media in Venezuela still seem to be criticising him 24/7 like they've been doing forever, all the opposition people seem to speak out against him from within Venezuela itself, etc. It's hardly a Cuba-style dictatorship where you get put in jail for speaking out against the government.
posted by Joakim Ziegler at 11:32 PM on November 13, 2007 [2 favorites]

the cydonian: ringtone made it impossible to hear for me. You could actually hear him? Somebody said "y tú" (and you) at about that point, but I didn't think it was the king.
posted by tarheelcoxn at 12:06 AM on November 14, 2007

Why can't Venezuela be more like our other friends with oil, Saudi Arabia?
posted by srboisvert at 2:06 AM on November 14, 2007

Joakim Ziegler, Avenger, clorus:

Juan Carlos I was voted in as constitutional monarch by the Spanish people at a referendum in 1978.

Between 1975 and 1979 he took the country from a fascist dictatorship (their reins of which he was groomed by Franco to take over since he was 10 years old) to a democratic state, helping craft the country's constitution and guiding the people to elect the first parliament in over 40 years.
posted by benzo8 at 2:56 AM on November 14, 2007

Not "¡Callate!", but "Por favor, se calla" which is more "Please shut up." So a bit more polite than "Why don't you shut up."
posted by needled

What the king said was "¿Por qué no te callas?", so sorry, needled, it was the informal way of speaking, as Joakim Ziegler was saying.
posted by micayetoca at 4:07 AM on November 14, 2007

they don't really matter if he's doing good stuff in the country

from the NYT (long, but well worth reading):

This is classic oil curse, and Venezuela has seen it before. In 1973, and in 1981, Venezuela spent oil money wildly, without controls. Each time a boom ended, it left Venezuela worse off than before it began — per capita income in 1999 was the same as in 1960. Chávez has quite likely intensified these cycles, and the country is less able to produce anything other than oil.

Venezuela’s adventures in oil nationalization have produced two very different models. At a time when oil prices were low and the country in dire need of social spending, the old Pdvsa’s focus on reinvesting in oil production was undemocratic and unfair to the Venezuelan people. But the new way has produced something arguably worse — economic failure despite a boom in oil prices, and it is unfair to future generations.

Also, the whole quashing dissent thing, well, probably to an extent, but the private owned media in Venezuela still seem to be criticising him 24/7 like they've been doing forever

Yeah, except for that bit about RCTV losing its broadcast license. Oh, and if you signed the 2004 Recall referendum, good luck keeping your job.
posted by ambrosia at 4:09 AM on November 14, 2007

And you obviously need to know more about Chavez, cause I don't think you ever want to be *with* him...on anything. That man's making a mess of Venezuela.

You're right, I should learn more about the man.

Let's see...

Went to college, excelled, continued on with a military career that lasted 17 years. That already gives him more of a military background than our chicken-hawk president, vice president, and Secretary of State... combined.

From the wiki: Elected President in 1998 with a campaign centering on promises of aiding Venezuela's poor majority, and was reelected in 2000 and in 2006. ... Somebody seems to like him.

More: "he denounced development models that are organised around neoliberal guidelines such as liberalisation of capital flows, removal of trade barriers, and privatisation as the reason for the developing world's impoverishment." ... Sounds pretty good to me.

Apparently, Chavez hosts a television program aired every Sunday where he takes questions from the studio and broadcast audience. Live. I would take a 5% increase in my fucking taxes each year if our joke of a president (or our joke of an opposition party) did anything like that.

But wait... there's more! "Additionally, on July 25, 2005, Chávez inaugurated TeleSUR, a proposed pan-American homologue of Al Jazeera that seeks to challenge the present domination of Latin American television news by Univision and the United States-based CNN en Español." ... Oh no, media competition. Whatever shall become of their informed citizenry?

"On August 3, 2006 Chávez ordered the Venezuelan chargé d'affaires to Israel to return from Tel Aviv to Venezuela, protesting the 2006 Israel-Lebanon conflict." ... Good.

"Chávez has announced his country's withdrawal from the IMF and World Bank after paying back all his country` s debts to both institutions; he charged them with being an imperial tool that aims to exploit poor countries" ... Also good.

Now, what does the "criticism" section say? "With respect to domestic policies, critics claim that both corruption and crime are rampant." ... Was their corruption and crime before Chavez? Is there corruption and crime in surrounding S. American countries? Surely that couldn't be an indicator of systemic problems for the region.

"Critics have also charged that the Chávez government has engaged in "gigantic fraud" during the 2004 recall referendum." ... Yet ... "the Carter Center consulted with Professor Jonathan Taylor, an independent statistician from Stanford University and Professor Aviel Rubin, a Johns Hopkins University computer scientist who both initially concluded that the actual results are within the predicted range."

Maybe this? "The United States government claims that his cooperation in their war on terror is negligible or purposely indifferent" ... No, that's another one of those good things.

"Chavez has been accused of concentrating power of judicial and legislative branches." ... See also: Lincoln, Roosevelt.


Also, most criticisms against him seem to focus on his statements and behaviour, which are admittedly buffoonish, but they don't really matter if he's doing good stuff in the country.

As opposed to leaders who display buffoonish behavior while at the same time dragging their country down into the mud. Yes, I had someone in particular in mind.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:20 AM on November 14, 2007 [4 favorites]

Yeah, except for that bit about RCTV losing its broadcast license.

Yeah, that's kinda what happens when you support coups to overthrow your government. They should be thankful they're not in the U.S., where that kind of anti-Americanism would land you in Gitmo.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:26 AM on November 14, 2007 [1 favorite]

In case you're too lazy to click the link:

RCTV and other commercial TV stations were key players in the April 2002 coup that briefly ousted Chávez's democratically elected government. During the short-lived insurrection, coup leaders took to commercial TV airwaves to thank the networks. "I must thank Venevisión and RCTV," one grateful leader remarked in an appearance captured in the Irish film The Revolution Will Not Be Televised. The film documents the networks’ participation in the short-lived coup, in which stations put themselves to service as bulletin boards for the coup—hosting coup leaders, silencing government voices and rallying the opposition to a march on the Presidential Palace that was part of the coup plotters strategy.

posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:28 AM on November 14, 2007

Chavez, like every political leader is power hungry. You don't become a politician without gaining a bit of a God complex along the way.

Never trust a politician.

It just seems to me that if you look at both sides of the story, I'd trust Chavez before I'd trust Bush (who is sending America down a Corporate/Fascists pseudo-democratic road) or Brown (doing the same thing in the UK, thanks Gordon!) or pretty much any other Western Politician.

At least Chavez is upfront about what he says and what he does. Our politicians, they are fucking scum who I couldn't trust as far as I threw them.
posted by twistedonion at 4:49 AM on November 14, 2007

twistedonion:

Why don't you head on down to ole' Venezuela and have fun down there with Chavez. See how much he likes it when you try to muster some actual support in contradiction to what he thinks is right. I think you might find him slightly more 'scummy' than our politicians here.
posted by tgrundke at 5:22 AM on November 14, 2007

tgrundke, the reasons for the legislation he has brought in is more valid than "protecting freedom from the attack of the muslims" and he is more upfront about it.

How do you suppose Bush would react if Venezuela had helped organise a coup to oust him and then the citizens of the country rose up to help Bush out and reinstate him as he was legitimately elected?

I reckon you would see oppression of the opposition like you have never seen before. Just a hunch.

Chavez has had to deal with a hell of a lot of external influences trying to derail what he has promised the people who democratically elected him.
posted by twistedonion at 5:35 AM on November 14, 2007 [1 favorite]

tgrundke, I live in "ole' Venezuela" and believe me, most of the political opponents of Chavez are free to say whatever they want to, do pretty much anything they want, and they still have prosperous businesses that have contracts with the only source of money of this country: the government.
posted by micayetoca at 5:41 AM on November 14, 2007

The subject of what is happening in Venezuela is far more complex (and I may be stating the obvious here) than the "democratically elected leader who is trying to save the poor" or the "power hungry tyrant who oppresses his people." Both arguments will easily find lots and lots of data to support them, but both are inaccurate.
posted by micayetoca at 5:46 AM on November 14, 2007 [5 favorites]

Here's a paraphrase, for those who'd rather not try to parse it:

CivilDisobedient: "Chavez? But... Bush!"
posted by koeselitz at 7:35 AM on November 14, 2007

Seriously, he looks like the Burger King AND he tells petty tyrants to just shut up? I love this Juan Carlos guy.
posted by misha at 7:50 AM on November 14, 2007 [1 favorite]

Because a Castroist dictator or an American puppet are the only options...

Seems to be going that way in Venezuala, and a lot of other parts of South and Central America as well. The push for American puppets feeds the push for Castroist dictators feeds the push for American puppets...
posted by Artw at 9:39 AM on November 14, 2007

Here's a paraphrase, for those who'd rather not try to parse it

Another sad victim of the U.S. public school system.

On the plus side, it appears you got a whole three sentences in. That's got to be worth at least a scratch 'n sniff sticker.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:43 PM on November 14, 2007

Yeah, except for that bit about RCTV losing its broadcast license.
posted by ambrosia

There's one thing about I forgot to say the other day about RCTV. As of today, November 15, 2007, RCTV is still broadcasting. All they had to do is change their name to RCTV Internacional, switch to cable and change their place of transmission to Miami. But they have all the exact same programs they had before they lost their license and they only were out of the air for about a month.

I remembered this today because when I turned on the TV this morning I saw one of the anchors saying how the vicious dictator was about to rob the Republic (with the new Constitutional Reform).
posted by micayetoca at 6:39 PM on November 15, 2007