Obscenity and Politics
November 19, 2007 7:23 PM Subscribe
It was once common to bury dangerous political tracts within pornography and then to bind them in an innocuously titled volume. This served as a double protection: the cover protected the book, and the porn protected the author from the political fallout of her opinions. The Marquis de Sade's classic Philosophy in the Bedroom plays with this trope. According to some, the screed against religion in its fifth dialogue justifies the sexual excesses that come before and after. According to others, the buried manifesto serves to hide the pornography in plain sight. (pdf, zipped)
Philosophy in the Bedroom pdf is NSFW btw...
posted by Demogorgon at 7:36 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Demogorgon at 7:36 PM on November 19, 2007
Gee, and it's described as "the Marquis de Sade's classic". I wouldn't have expected that to be NSFW.
posted by yhbc at 7:43 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by yhbc at 7:43 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think the US Constitution needs more lithographs of powdered-wig spankings.
posted by Avenger at 7:50 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Avenger at 7:50 PM on November 19, 2007
It was once common to bury dangerous political tracts viruses within pornography zipped files.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:02 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by KokuRyu at 8:02 PM on November 19, 2007
viruses within zipped files.
Really? uh oh. can anyone tell if this one has a virus?
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:05 PM on November 19, 2007
Really? uh oh. can anyone tell if this one has a virus?
posted by anotherpanacea at 8:05 PM on November 19, 2007
anotherpanacea, zip that back up right now. We've had quite enough posts about Flashing to last us until Flash Friday.
posted by wendell at 8:10 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by wendell at 8:10 PM on November 19, 2007
Even de Sade had warnings about zipped files:
I have, waiting outside, a valet, and he is furnished with what is perhaps one of the loveliest members to be found in all of Nature; however, it distills disease, for 'tis eaten by one of the most impressive cases of syphilis I have yet anywhere encountered; I'll have my man come in: we'll have a coupling: he'll inject his poison into each of the two natural conduits that ornament this dear and amiable lady, with this consequence: that so long as this cruel disease's impressions shall last, the whore will remember not to trouble her daughter when Eugénie has herself fucked.
A lesson for us all to avoid opening anonymous email attachments.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:12 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
I have, waiting outside, a valet, and he is furnished with what is perhaps one of the loveliest members to be found in all of Nature; however, it distills disease, for 'tis eaten by one of the most impressive cases of syphilis I have yet anywhere encountered; I'll have my man come in: we'll have a coupling: he'll inject his poison into each of the two natural conduits that ornament this dear and amiable lady, with this consequence: that so long as this cruel disease's impressions shall last, the whore will remember not to trouble her daughter when Eugénie has herself fucked.
A lesson for us all to avoid opening anonymous email attachments.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:12 PM on November 19, 2007 [1 favorite]
To put this in context, specific to France, where they had a censorship office under the authority of the King who decided what could and could not be published. Anything published in France had to be first read and approved by the censors. This created a situation of underground published books/pamphlets that could land a owner in jail or worse. It also allowed for very clever authors to write "between the lines", fooling the censors with rhetorical skill, the authors of the Encyclopédie were famous for it.
posted by stbalbach at 8:43 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by stbalbach at 8:43 PM on November 19, 2007
Thanks for the warning about that first link being a PDF.
posted by Lusy P Hur at 8:57 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Lusy P Hur at 8:57 PM on November 19, 2007
they had a censorship office under the authority of the King
De Sade published after the Revolution and the King was gone, probably taking advantage of the confused situation. But after he seized control, Bonaparte locked him up DeSade for Justine/Julliette in 1801 - even though most of them had been published way earlier.
posted by meehawl at 9:06 PM on November 19, 2007
De Sade published after the Revolution and the King was gone, probably taking advantage of the confused situation. But after he seized control, Bonaparte locked him up DeSade for Justine/Julliette in 1801 - even though most of them had been published way earlier.
posted by meehawl at 9:06 PM on November 19, 2007
The biggest pornography market in France in the eighteenth century was on the paved court at the front of Versailles. The goods were as described in this post.
posted by Wolof at 10:50 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by Wolof at 10:50 PM on November 19, 2007
For more information about this fascinating topic, read Robert Darnton, particularly "The High Enlightenment and the Low-Life of Literature," Past and Present 51, no.1 (May 1971), 81-115.
Darnton is justly considered one of the foremost living scholars of eighteenth-century France, and he made his career by studying just this kind of material.
posted by nasreddin at 11:17 PM on November 19, 2007 [3 favorites]
Darnton is justly considered one of the foremost living scholars of eighteenth-century France, and he made his career by studying just this kind of material.
posted by nasreddin at 11:17 PM on November 19, 2007 [3 favorites]
Hmmm. . .still having a hard time figuring out how DeSade has become such an icon of sexual freedom, when every time I read his stuff I'm repelled by mysogyny and, er. . . sadism. Perhaps we've distilled a message from his work that isn't there?
posted by flotson at 11:27 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by flotson at 11:27 PM on November 19, 2007
flotson: I always thought that de Sade was an icon of Sadism. Kingsley Amis is the one you're thinking of.
posted by KokuRyu at 11:42 PM on November 19, 2007
posted by KokuRyu at 11:42 PM on November 19, 2007
Hmmm. . .still having a hard time figuring out how DeSade has become such an icon of sexual freedom
Then let me commend to you Angela Carter's book, The Sadean Woman.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:07 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
Then let me commend to you Angela Carter's book, The Sadean Woman.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 12:07 AM on November 20, 2007 [1 favorite]
This all made me think about how unpolitical pornography is today.
Or isn't it? You could comfortably argue that pornography is an inherently political statement, specifically if it is depicting acts in transgression of local laws, or in that it so often shows the subjugation of one class or type of individual. But overtly, in a "I think we should be living in kind-X type of society" or, "I think corporations are abusing their role in society" (I'm not sure what that kind of porn would look like. Or? No, yeah, I can't imagine) way, porn no longer serves any function.
What are the conduits of contemporary radical political thought? Late night talk radio?
Is this progress?
It's kind of a fascinating shift, and I'd think a recent one. That there are fewer and fewer outlets for expressing radical political thought. And for a democracy, I don't think that's any good.
And thanks PMcD for the Angela Carter link, I did not know this book.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:57 AM on November 20, 2007
Or isn't it? You could comfortably argue that pornography is an inherently political statement, specifically if it is depicting acts in transgression of local laws, or in that it so often shows the subjugation of one class or type of individual. But overtly, in a "I think we should be living in kind-X type of society" or, "I think corporations are abusing their role in society" (I'm not sure what that kind of porn would look like. Or? No, yeah, I can't imagine) way, porn no longer serves any function.
What are the conduits of contemporary radical political thought? Late night talk radio?
Is this progress?
It's kind of a fascinating shift, and I'd think a recent one. That there are fewer and fewer outlets for expressing radical political thought. And for a democracy, I don't think that's any good.
And thanks PMcD for the Angela Carter link, I did not know this book.
posted by From Bklyn at 12:57 AM on November 20, 2007
KokoRyu, where was Kingsley Amis sadistic?
Mickey Spillane maybe.
posted by emf at 2:14 AM on November 20, 2007
Mickey Spillane maybe.
posted by emf at 2:14 AM on November 20, 2007
He means KA was misogynistic - though the comment actually seems to say that KA is an icon of sexual freedom.
Anyway, I agree with flotson, whatever Angela Carter says. There isn't really much philosophy of any substance in that bedroom and Sade's porn is unlovely (and not that great either - whoever managed to read the 120 Days of Sodom without getting somewhat bored by about Day 30?).
Give me Cleland any day - a pornographer who looked after his heroine and allowed her to argue for herself.
posted by Phanx at 3:30 AM on November 20, 2007
Anyway, I agree with flotson, whatever Angela Carter says. There isn't really much philosophy of any substance in that bedroom and Sade's porn is unlovely (and not that great either - whoever managed to read the 120 Days of Sodom without getting somewhat bored by about Day 30?).
Give me Cleland any day - a pornographer who looked after his heroine and allowed her to argue for herself.
posted by Phanx at 3:30 AM on November 20, 2007
I've been so tired for so long of people actually thinking the Marquis de Sade had something profound to say about anything. He's just an onanist.
posted by lodurr at 3:54 AM on November 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by lodurr at 3:54 AM on November 20, 2007 [2 favorites]
... and there's a very amusing old Fritz Leiber story that features a sadistic, misogynistic PI named 'Slicky Millane' who gets tormented by an indestructable, peace-loving alien that just won't die. Can't remember the name and it was in a collection I traded away years ago.
posted by lodurr at 3:57 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by lodurr at 3:57 AM on November 20, 2007
As for the trangressiveness and politicality of pornorgraphy in the modern west:
At some level, with this much money involved in that industry, you have to start to suspect that somebody, somewhere, not only wants us to look at lots and lots of really nasty porn, but that they also want us to damn well keep feeling guilty about it.
posted by lodurr at 4:01 AM on November 20, 2007
At some level, with this much money involved in that industry, you have to start to suspect that somebody, somewhere, not only wants us to look at lots and lots of really nasty porn, but that they also want us to damn well keep feeling guilty about it.
posted by lodurr at 4:01 AM on November 20, 2007
Bread and circuses. Cake and porno. Plus ça change, etc.
posted by wobh at 6:37 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by wobh at 6:37 AM on November 20, 2007
From Carter's book:
The moral pornographer would be an artist who uses pornographic material as part of the acceptance of the logic of a world of absolute sexual licence for all the genders, and projects a model of the way such a world might work. A moral pornographer might use pornography as a critique of current relations between the sexes. His business would be the total demystification of the flesh and the subsequent revelation, through the infinite modulations of the sexual act, of the real relations of man and his kind. Such a pornographer would not be the enemy of women, perhaps because he might begin to penetrate to the heart of the contempt for women that distorts our culture even as he entered the realms of true obscenity as he describes it. […]
Sade remains a monstrous and daunting cultural edifice; yet I would like to think that he put pornography in the service of women, or, perhaps, allowed it to be invaded by an ideology not inimical to women.
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:09 AM on November 20, 2007
The moral pornographer would be an artist who uses pornographic material as part of the acceptance of the logic of a world of absolute sexual licence for all the genders, and projects a model of the way such a world might work. A moral pornographer might use pornography as a critique of current relations between the sexes. His business would be the total demystification of the flesh and the subsequent revelation, through the infinite modulations of the sexual act, of the real relations of man and his kind. Such a pornographer would not be the enemy of women, perhaps because he might begin to penetrate to the heart of the contempt for women that distorts our culture even as he entered the realms of true obscenity as he describes it. […]
Sade remains a monstrous and daunting cultural edifice; yet I would like to think that he put pornography in the service of women, or, perhaps, allowed it to be invaded by an ideology not inimical to women.
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:09 AM on November 20, 2007
pornography is an inherently political statement
The idea of pornography is stimulating. Its real expression quickly becomes rather formulaic, and deadening. It creates its own hegemony of boredom that can be easily assimilated by the State's apparatus of consent. Only a singularly crazy person like DeSade could write the same half dozen buggering variations over and over and over for their whole lives and imagine connecting them with both satisfaction and political liberation.
posted by meehawl at 8:46 AM on November 20, 2007
The idea of pornography is stimulating. Its real expression quickly becomes rather formulaic, and deadening. It creates its own hegemony of boredom that can be easily assimilated by the State's apparatus of consent. Only a singularly crazy person like DeSade could write the same half dozen buggering variations over and over and over for their whole lives and imagine connecting them with both satisfaction and political liberation.
posted by meehawl at 8:46 AM on November 20, 2007
The idea of pornography is stimulating. Its real expression quickly becomes rather formulaic, and deadening.
This has been my experience, but the possibility of a different sort of pornography isn't beyond my capacity for imagination.
It creates its own hegemony of boredom that can be easily assimilated by the State's apparatus of consent.
Though recently this would appear to be the case, historically the opposite appears to be true. Even in a society that was originally committed to both political radicalism and sexual freedom -- such as post revolutionary Russia -- they struggled with the issue of sexual license and rapidly reneged on their earlier promises of freedom.
And while modern corporations and the state is happy to tolerate rather larger quantities of material than it would in the past, there are still transgressive categories that have the power to both shock, and to call down the repressive power of the state.
Only a singularly crazy person like DeSade could write the same half dozen buggering variations over and over and over for their whole lives and imagine connecting them with both satisfaction and political liberation.
Meh. One man's meat... (NOT DESADIST)
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2007
This has been my experience, but the possibility of a different sort of pornography isn't beyond my capacity for imagination.
It creates its own hegemony of boredom that can be easily assimilated by the State's apparatus of consent.
Though recently this would appear to be the case, historically the opposite appears to be true. Even in a society that was originally committed to both political radicalism and sexual freedom -- such as post revolutionary Russia -- they struggled with the issue of sexual license and rapidly reneged on their earlier promises of freedom.
And while modern corporations and the state is happy to tolerate rather larger quantities of material than it would in the past, there are still transgressive categories that have the power to both shock, and to call down the repressive power of the state.
Only a singularly crazy person like DeSade could write the same half dozen buggering variations over and over and over for their whole lives and imagine connecting them with both satisfaction and political liberation.
Meh. One man's meat... (NOT DESADIST)
posted by PeterMcDermott at 9:40 AM on November 20, 2007
anotherpanacea: I was just about to post that same quote. It confirms for me exactly what I was driving at in my earlier post. I think Carter is using DeSade to try to do some good, by imagining the "moral pornographer"--but I don't think he's truly the paradigm for that. His stuff is too full of inequalities in gender relations (and probably class relations) for that.
posted by flotson at 10:05 AM on November 20, 2007
posted by flotson at 10:05 AM on November 20, 2007
Very interesting post, btw, thanks a lot.
Angela Carter not so much.
posted by Wolof at 4:11 AM on November 21, 2007
Angela Carter not so much.
posted by Wolof at 4:11 AM on November 21, 2007
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