Vista sucks, yarble yarble
January 2, 2008 2:04 AM Subscribe
This post was deleted for the following reason: There's not really any content here. The actual Q&A might be interesting, maybe, when it exists, but this is just bad review and a contact form. -- cortex
With a bit of luck they'll get someone who actually knows about computers to pick some of the questions. I remember when we were all excited about Paxman interviewing Gates a few years ago, but then it turned out that his relative unease around technology turned him into James Lipton.
posted by teleskiving at 2:20 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by teleskiving at 2:20 AM on January 2, 2008
To save you the trouble of reading the links: Vista SP1 slows down drive and network access even more than the original Vista did. And Bill's giving an emailed Q&A session to BBC readers. But not about Vista, about himself.
This is very close to a content-free post.
posted by Malor at 2:40 AM on January 2, 2008
This is very close to a content-free post.
posted by Malor at 2:40 AM on January 2, 2008
Isn't Vista more Steve Balmer's fault anyhow?
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:47 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by EatTheWeek at 2:47 AM on January 2, 2008
While I agree with Malor, I suppose I will put in my two cents: if I were him, I would be getting off the Microsoft boat right about now, too. Captain Ballmer (seen here, leading the fight) can man the sinking ship the rest of the way.
I can't think of anything to ask him that he's responsible for anymore. Nothing would burn, nothing would stick, and he is, after all, using his money for alright things these days.
Perhaps something like, "do you feel unease at the fact that by donating Microsoft products to needful organizations, you are in effect locking them in to a system that will in the future cost them perhaps thousands or even millions to maintain, were you to ever withdraw your ongoing support?"
Since it is both about philanthropy and technology, and also gets to one of the core problems with Windows.
posted by blacklite at 2:50 AM on January 2, 2008
I can't think of anything to ask him that he's responsible for anymore. Nothing would burn, nothing would stick, and he is, after all, using his money for alright things these days.
Perhaps something like, "do you feel unease at the fact that by donating Microsoft products to needful organizations, you are in effect locking them in to a system that will in the future cost them perhaps thousands or even millions to maintain, were you to ever withdraw your ongoing support?"
Since it is both about philanthropy and technology, and also gets to one of the core problems with Windows.
posted by blacklite at 2:50 AM on January 2, 2008
I sent the above in, with explanation, and also one along the lines of: "when was the last time that you yourself did any programming?"
I bet it's been a long long time. Windows programming is such a chore.
posted by blacklite at 2:58 AM on January 2, 2008
I bet it's been a long long time. Windows programming is such a chore.
posted by blacklite at 2:58 AM on January 2, 2008
So, the concensus is, Vista still sucks? I'm still on XP on my machines, and generally happy with it. Guess I'll tune in early 2009 and check again then. Kinda been delaying new computer purchases until Vista is finished...er, fixed...or whatever.
posted by jamstigator at 3:18 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by jamstigator at 3:18 AM on January 2, 2008
Content free posts have been the norm around here for a while. Just look down the page.
posted by A189Nut at 3:19 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by A189Nut at 3:19 AM on January 2, 2008
I've got one.
Why is the Gates Foundation funding efforts to develop a vaccine for tuberculosis, when TB only affects immunocompromised individuals?
posted by kisch mokusch at 3:29 AM on January 2, 2008
Why is the Gates Foundation funding efforts to develop a vaccine for tuberculosis, when TB only affects immunocompromised individuals?
posted by kisch mokusch at 3:29 AM on January 2, 2008
"Why don't you spend some money on a decent haircut, you stupid geeky looking fuck?"
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 3:45 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 3:45 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
pompomtom writes "Because he's likely to give you a fair appraisal?"
Because anybody is going to believe the guy who employed this massive arse to speak to developers, developers, devolepers ?
posted by elpapacito at 3:50 AM on January 2, 2008
Because anybody is going to believe the guy who employed this massive arse to speak to developers, developers, devolepers ?
posted by elpapacito at 3:50 AM on January 2, 2008
Windows programming is such a chore.
I actually find that visual studio + the .net framework makes it very simple (for simple things, of course). Native programming, on the other hand, still sucks.
Vista, on the other hand, is giving me a rather large number of stop errors. (Full disclosure: I got so annoyed I bought that domain. Hope to have better news on workarounds soon, nothing good to report yet.) Every singe CD burning package I've tried causes it to bomb to a blue screen within an hour or so of installation. It's seriously putting a crimp in my enjoyment of torrent sites.
If it weren't so damn unstable, I would actually rather like Vista. At first it was a bit of a nuisance, but the new UI has rather grown on me.
posted by IronLizard at 3:58 AM on January 2, 2008
I actually find that visual studio + the .net framework makes it very simple (for simple things, of course). Native programming, on the other hand, still sucks.
Vista, on the other hand, is giving me a rather large number of stop errors. (Full disclosure: I got so annoyed I bought that domain. Hope to have better news on workarounds soon, nothing good to report yet.) Every singe CD burning package I've tried causes it to bomb to a blue screen within an hour or so of installation. It's seriously putting a crimp in my enjoyment of torrent sites.
If it weren't so damn unstable, I would actually rather like Vista. At first it was a bit of a nuisance, but the new UI has rather grown on me.
posted by IronLizard at 3:58 AM on January 2, 2008
There are multi-drug resistant strains of tuberculosis in the wild that also affect non AIDS sufferers, though admittedly they are by far the most likely to be affected by TB currently.
Don't forget, before multi-antibiotic treatment for TB was developed, TB killed 50% of those infected. If you look into the history of treatment for TB, you'll see it is very effective at developing resistance given the chance.
The biggest worry is that the MDR versions of TB will become the dominant strains, due to insufficient completion of treatments, and TB will be coming back in a big way just as MRSA (the superbug) is now becoming the bane of hospital patients worldwide. Even now, TB kills half a million people in africa annually.
A vaccine would go a long way to getting rid of TB pools amongst the immunocompetent in poor countries, especially africa, where failure to complete the 6 month treatment is endemic, for various reasons.
posted by ArkhanJG at 4:02 AM on January 2, 2008
Don't forget, before multi-antibiotic treatment for TB was developed, TB killed 50% of those infected. If you look into the history of treatment for TB, you'll see it is very effective at developing resistance given the chance.
The biggest worry is that the MDR versions of TB will become the dominant strains, due to insufficient completion of treatments, and TB will be coming back in a big way just as MRSA (the superbug) is now becoming the bane of hospital patients worldwide. Even now, TB kills half a million people in africa annually.
A vaccine would go a long way to getting rid of TB pools amongst the immunocompetent in poor countries, especially africa, where failure to complete the 6 month treatment is endemic, for various reasons.
posted by ArkhanJG at 4:02 AM on January 2, 2008
"Every single CD burning package I've tried causes it to bomb to a blue screen within an hour or so of installation. It's seriously putting a crimp in my enjoyment of torrent sites."
Feature.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 4:05 AM on January 2, 2008
Feature.
posted by Henry C. Mabuse at 4:05 AM on January 2, 2008
Why is the Gates Foundation funding efforts to develop a vaccine for tuberculosis, when TB only affects immunocompromised individuals?
Probably because that's absolutely untrue, and you have no idea what you're talking about. Also, Gates Sr. directs the charity IIRC.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 4:18 AM on January 2, 2008
Probably because that's absolutely untrue, and you have no idea what you're talking about. Also, Gates Sr. directs the charity IIRC.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 4:18 AM on January 2, 2008
Burning CDs is probably bombing on you because they hold more than 640 megabytes, and everyone knows we'll never need more than 640 megabytes.
posted by jamstigator at 4:19 AM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by jamstigator at 4:19 AM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
Or you could, you know, install it or buy a laptop with it and find out for yourself instead of connecting to the 'complaint culture' of the internet. Hell, Im not even defending vista, but the culture of the internet is a highly politicized one and the whole of idea of listening to 'what some people say' is like asking Republicans to tell you the worst thing about the Clinton Administration.
One of the real problems of self-publishing nature/selective search nature of the net is that if you come with a certain bias you will most definitely leave with that same bias except now you have found 10,000 other misanthropes to back you up. That doesnt mean youre necessarily wrong, but it does mean you'll probably never know if you are wrong.
Also it worth noting that "some say" is how Bush has started some of his tirades when developing something of strawman to attack. "Some say that tax and spend is the best way to run government, but not me..." "Some say we should let Osama go, but not me..."
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:25 AM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
One of the real problems of self-publishing nature/selective search nature of the net is that if you come with a certain bias you will most definitely leave with that same bias except now you have found 10,000 other misanthropes to back you up. That doesnt mean youre necessarily wrong, but it does mean you'll probably never know if you are wrong.
Also it worth noting that "some say" is how Bush has started some of his tirades when developing something of strawman to attack. "Some say that tax and spend is the best way to run government, but not me..." "Some say we should let Osama go, but not me..."
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:25 AM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]
Talk about unintended consequences - the whole UAC mechanism makes anyone who starts using Vista hate it for the first twenty hours or so while you're installing all your favorite programs and goodies.
I've had it on all my home and portable computers for most of a year now. After that adjustment period, when I go back to XP now there are a variety of simple things I miss. (Auto-search from the start menu, a bunch of minor but crucial features in Explorer like network access that doesn't just hang forever when I am away from a network where a shared drive lives).
Also, the only time I ever experienced bluescreens was with weirdo drivers or when I tried to convince it to use Drivers which didn't support Vista explicitly yet.
For CD burning I use... Vista. And CommandBurner. Totally free and nothing I can do in Nero can't be done in them. I did have Nero installed for a while but it turned out it was unnecessary.
So... I'm thinking this "Conesnsus" about Vista sucking comes largely from folks who used it for 45 minutes at the store or from folks who presume it must suck. The fact that developing on it using the previous Visual Studio requires me to accept a UAC prompt is the only current complaint I have (and that's fixed in VS 2008).
Oh and as for "Simple things only" on VS+NET... 99% of the usefulness of .NET is how simple it is to develop against native APIs using P/Invoke -- that's really the major utility of the framework: checked, managed, JITted, but still able to call native APIs as needed, wrapped in whatever object model you need. If you're writing a WndProc you'd better be doing something at a very low level graphically or system API wise (or something where you can't rely on the framework being installed, which is reasonable but less likely).
posted by abulafa at 4:39 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've had it on all my home and portable computers for most of a year now. After that adjustment period, when I go back to XP now there are a variety of simple things I miss. (Auto-search from the start menu, a bunch of minor but crucial features in Explorer like network access that doesn't just hang forever when I am away from a network where a shared drive lives).
Also, the only time I ever experienced bluescreens was with weirdo drivers or when I tried to convince it to use Drivers which didn't support Vista explicitly yet.
For CD burning I use... Vista. And CommandBurner. Totally free and nothing I can do in Nero can't be done in them. I did have Nero installed for a while but it turned out it was unnecessary.
So... I'm thinking this "Conesnsus" about Vista sucking comes largely from folks who used it for 45 minutes at the store or from folks who presume it must suck. The fact that developing on it using the previous Visual Studio requires me to accept a UAC prompt is the only current complaint I have (and that's fixed in VS 2008).
Oh and as for "Simple things only" on VS+NET... 99% of the usefulness of .NET is how simple it is to develop against native APIs using P/Invoke -- that's really the major utility of the framework: checked, managed, JITted, but still able to call native APIs as needed, wrapped in whatever object model you need. If you're writing a WndProc you'd better be doing something at a very low level graphically or system API wise (or something where you can't rely on the framework being installed, which is reasonable but less likely).
posted by abulafa at 4:39 AM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]
Or you could, you know, install it or buy a laptop with it and find out for yourself
That sounds superficially reasonable, dda, but when you consider that you have to buy the program just to try it, and that you have no option to return it if you don't, the idea doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. There's no going back; once you slap down the credit card, it's yours forever.
I can't think of any other product field like this. How on earth did we let software get this bad?
posted by Malor at 4:41 AM on January 2, 2008
That sounds superficially reasonable, dda, but when you consider that you have to buy the program just to try it, and that you have no option to return it if you don't, the idea doesn't hold up well under scrutiny. There's no going back; once you slap down the credit card, it's yours forever.
I can't think of any other product field like this. How on earth did we let software get this bad?
posted by Malor at 4:41 AM on January 2, 2008
I installed Vista nearly a year ago. Yesterday I went back to XP and vowed that my next computer would be Windows-free.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:42 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:42 AM on January 2, 2008
Or you could, you know, install it or buy a laptop with it and find out for yourself instead of connecting to the 'complaint culture' of the internet.
That's going to be a waste of money if the 'complaint culture' (aka: user reviews) turn out to be spot on, isn't it? Don't you pay attention to the reviews of a product before purchasing it? The biggest tip off, IMHO, is the fact that some of the OEM sellers and large corporate accounts have pushed for, and taken, the option to 'downgrade' to XP. Compatibility issues aside, Vista's network interoperability with older Windows versions had proven to be a royal pain in the ass.
posted by IronLizard at 4:43 AM on January 2, 2008
That's going to be a waste of money if the 'complaint culture' (aka: user reviews) turn out to be spot on, isn't it? Don't you pay attention to the reviews of a product before purchasing it? The biggest tip off, IMHO, is the fact that some of the OEM sellers and large corporate accounts have pushed for, and taken, the option to 'downgrade' to XP. Compatibility issues aside, Vista's network interoperability with older Windows versions had proven to be a royal pain in the ass.
posted by IronLizard at 4:43 AM on January 2, 2008
Oh and as for "Simple things only"
Maybe that didn't quite come out right. I'm rather new at it and my experience has been with simple things is what I meant by that. At least, they seem simple in dotnet. Just looking at some of the native structures required to embed activex in a windows form gives me a headache.
posted by IronLizard at 4:48 AM on January 2, 2008
Maybe that didn't quite come out right. I'm rather new at it and my experience has been with simple things is what I meant by that. At least, they seem simple in dotnet. Just looking at some of the native structures required to embed activex in a windows form gives me a headache.
posted by IronLizard at 4:48 AM on January 2, 2008
UAC is easy to turn off, if you want. For me, the main issue is the awful, awful, performance of some basic file operations. Like, 15 minutes to decompress a 5 Mb zip file. I cannot imagine how Microsoft thought it was OK to release a product with a flaw like that, which as far as I know is still not fixed. If someone knows better, please correct me.
posted by teleskiving at 4:50 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by teleskiving at 4:50 AM on January 2, 2008
Perhaps you have always wanted to know what the inspiration was behind Windows.
Um ... MacIntosh?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:56 AM on January 2, 2008
Um ... MacIntosh?
posted by ZenMasterThis at 4:56 AM on January 2, 2008
Like, 15 minutes to decompress a 5 Mb zip file.
WinRAR doesn't seem to have this problem on Vista, though it is a bit slow. Are you using the built in windows ZIP file handler?
posted by IronLizard at 5:01 AM on January 2, 2008
WinRAR doesn't seem to have this problem on Vista, though it is a bit slow. Are you using the built in windows ZIP file handler?
posted by IronLizard at 5:01 AM on January 2, 2008
My new laptop came with Vista and I was all set to hate it. And indeed many of the things it does are hateful and dumb (five mouseclicks to shut down the machine?) But every so often it does something really unexpectedly well, in a thoroughly intuitive and intelligent manner (much more so than OSX, which I also find hateful), and I find myself genuinely impressed for a minute or so. But most of the time I simply live with it, just as I lived with XP before it, and 2000 before that. They do the job.
posted by Hogshead at 5:05 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by Hogshead at 5:05 AM on January 2, 2008
WinRAR doesn't seem to have this problem on Vista, though it is a bit slow.
Yeah, the problem is with the built-in ZIP handling. IIRC, 7-Zip was also fine.
posted by teleskiving at 5:11 AM on January 2, 2008
Yeah, the problem is with the built-in ZIP handling. IIRC, 7-Zip was also fine.
posted by teleskiving at 5:11 AM on January 2, 2008
Probably because that's absolutely untrue, and you have no idea what you're talking about
Well, I guess it was a bit flippant, so I'll qualify my statement. AIDS and malnutrition are the major reasons for the widespread TB in developing nations, due to the associated reduction in immune capacity. Even the reactivation of "latent" TB in western countries is associated with stress and a concurrent drop in immune function.
Once the bug gets going, then no, you no longer need to be immunocompromised to be in serious trouble (and need antibiotic treatment).
But at no point will a vaccine help you here. If you've been vaccinated and you have AIDS, or are starving, or really stressed, you'll still get TB.
A vaccine would go a long way to getting rid of TB pools amongst the immunocompetent in poor countries, especially africa, where failure to complete the 6 month treatment is endemic, for various reasons.
I've heard that argument before as well, but I remain skeptical. They currently do systematic BCG vaccination of infants (and the BCG vaccine works much better in children than in adults), but I've never seen data to suggest it actually removes the TB "pool".
I'm not trying to downplay TB, far from it. The multi-drug resistance strains will be a big problem in the not-to-distant future. It's just that there's no reason to believe a vaccine will solve any of the problems.
posted by kisch mokusch at 5:18 AM on January 2, 2008
Well, I guess it was a bit flippant, so I'll qualify my statement. AIDS and malnutrition are the major reasons for the widespread TB in developing nations, due to the associated reduction in immune capacity. Even the reactivation of "latent" TB in western countries is associated with stress and a concurrent drop in immune function.
Once the bug gets going, then no, you no longer need to be immunocompromised to be in serious trouble (and need antibiotic treatment).
But at no point will a vaccine help you here. If you've been vaccinated and you have AIDS, or are starving, or really stressed, you'll still get TB.
A vaccine would go a long way to getting rid of TB pools amongst the immunocompetent in poor countries, especially africa, where failure to complete the 6 month treatment is endemic, for various reasons.
I've heard that argument before as well, but I remain skeptical. They currently do systematic BCG vaccination of infants (and the BCG vaccine works much better in children than in adults), but I've never seen data to suggest it actually removes the TB "pool".
I'm not trying to downplay TB, far from it. The multi-drug resistance strains will be a big problem in the not-to-distant future. It's just that there's no reason to believe a vaccine will solve any of the problems.
posted by kisch mokusch at 5:18 AM on January 2, 2008
People still use Windows?
My friend shared me a copy of 2000 (or whatever it was) so I could run a game and I was all....wha? I have to do what to install it? I can't install libraries why? I mean, I can't even install DirectX without a license or some stupid thing.
posted by DU at 5:39 AM on January 2, 2008
My friend shared me a copy of 2000 (or whatever it was) so I could run a game and I was all....wha? I have to do what to install it? I can't install libraries why? I mean, I can't even install DirectX without a license or some stupid thing.
posted by DU at 5:39 AM on January 2, 2008
Oh, wait, I've got one --
"How big must your balls be to try charging a subscription fee to PC gamers via Vista Live accounts? Seriously, how big a set of balls does it take to charge for the privilege of playing shooters with Xbox players?"
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:45 AM on January 2, 2008
"How big must your balls be to try charging a subscription fee to PC gamers via Vista Live accounts? Seriously, how big a set of balls does it take to charge for the privilege of playing shooters with Xbox players?"
posted by EatTheWeek at 5:45 AM on January 2, 2008
DU, to make your comparison fair, please go ye forth and download a circa-year-2000 Linux distro and do a head-to-head comparison. The installation process of closed-source software is a crucial issue because once it's gold mastered it changes very very little, but that would seem to me to make it unfair to compare against your modern experience with things like Ubuntu, OSX, or Vista (and to a lesser extend XP, although its install and 2k's differ little).
It'd be like comparing the machines they built to send into space and not be updated for 10 years with the machines you can slap together from a trip to SparkFun. Add to that the fact that the 2k installer had to work on thousands of configurations of hardware (and did) versus the still comparatively limited set of components supported natively by the Linux of your choice or OSX and I'd say your comparison is... lopsided.
posted by abulafa at 5:55 AM on January 2, 2008
It'd be like comparing the machines they built to send into space and not be updated for 10 years with the machines you can slap together from a trip to SparkFun. Add to that the fact that the 2k installer had to work on thousands of configurations of hardware (and did) versus the still comparatively limited set of components supported natively by the Linux of your choice or OSX and I'd say your comparison is... lopsided.
posted by abulafa at 5:55 AM on January 2, 2008
Or you could, you know, install it or buy a laptop with it and find out for yourself instead of connecting to the 'complaint culture' of the internet.
I did. It sucked. It was shocking that a brand-new computer with a dual core processor ran significantly more slowly than my four-year-old laptop. Also, in a couple of days of use, I suffered two system crashes and many, many application crashes. I'm done with it.
posted by grouse at 6:08 AM on January 2, 2008
I did. It sucked. It was shocking that a brand-new computer with a dual core processor ran significantly more slowly than my four-year-old laptop. Also, in a couple of days of use, I suffered two system crashes and many, many application crashes. I'm done with it.
posted by grouse at 6:08 AM on January 2, 2008
"Is it ethical to steal hundreds of billions of dollars from consumers in rich countries, then slowly and without accountability give away a very small percentage of those stolen billions to people in poor countries?"
"Why was the 360 hardware engineering team allowed to smoke crack while on the job?"
"Do you know that operating systems are expected to be able to copy, move, delete, and change files over a network?"
posted by aerotive at 6:09 AM on January 2, 2008
"Why was the 360 hardware engineering team allowed to smoke crack while on the job?"
"Do you know that operating systems are expected to be able to copy, move, delete, and change files over a network?"
posted by aerotive at 6:09 AM on January 2, 2008
I've got to say, my experience, although brief, has been very positive. I bought a new desktop around the same time Vista came out, installed it, and was overwhelmed with the pretty. I had no blue-screens, except when installing old drivers (which was my fault - I deserved the punishment!) I never noticed the slow network/disk access times. I was very impressed with the speed of network computer discovery compared to windows XP/2000.
That said, I use it very infrequently, and dual-boot with Ubuntu as my first choice. Ubuntu Gutsy is nearly as nice to look at as Vista. It's also an easier install, nicer for updates, better package management, and good for any tinkering computer scientists. Vista has unfortunately overtaken Linux in security (no kidding) but I suspect it wont last forever.
Most people I've met with major Vista complaints have installed on older machines, especially laptops. The problems are real, but seem very hardware dependent.
posted by iso_bars at 6:14 AM on January 2, 2008
That said, I use it very infrequently, and dual-boot with Ubuntu as my first choice. Ubuntu Gutsy is nearly as nice to look at as Vista. It's also an easier install, nicer for updates, better package management, and good for any tinkering computer scientists. Vista has unfortunately overtaken Linux in security (no kidding) but I suspect it wont last forever.
Most people I've met with major Vista complaints have installed on older machines, especially laptops. The problems are real, but seem very hardware dependent.
posted by iso_bars at 6:14 AM on January 2, 2008
"Presuming no new major players in the Linux world, which distribution will Microsoft (inevitably) buy and brand their own?"
posted by JaredSeth at 6:15 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by JaredSeth at 6:15 AM on January 2, 2008
"How about that fireworks show on Monday night, Bill?"
posted by lukemeister at 6:19 AM on January 2, 2008
posted by lukemeister at 6:19 AM on January 2, 2008
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posted by pompomtom at 2:15 AM on January 2, 2008