I Just Need Some Alone Time

January 2, 2008 1:45 PM

Happy Introvert DayA Single-Link Op-Ed because... well, this link would just like to be alone, OK?
posted by wendell (72 comments total)

I'd comment, but uh...I've got to go. My cat is, uh, y'know. Doctor's something or other. *cough*
posted by Smedleyman at 1:51 PM on January 2, 2008

well, this link would just like to be alone,

Thats crazy, no one wants to be alone. Here, I'll sit with you and we'll chat.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:54 PM on January 2, 2008 [11 favorites]

And we can make some decorations together! I know, let's invite the whole family over for a holiday impromptu pot-luck!! Grandma has some slides from her last operation, and cousin Julie is dying to demonstrate that Bedazzler she got for Christmas! Wait, where are you going? Can we come too? It'll be great!!
posted by maryh at 2:00 PM on January 2, 2008

Note: Not everyone needs a hug. Since this is the CSMonitor, I'll just pray for the introvert to come out of his shell.
posted by not_on_display at 2:02 PM on January 2, 2008

"Here's what introverts are not: We're not afraid, and we're not shy. Introversion has little to do with fear or reticence. We're just focused, and we prefer one-on-one because we like to listen and we want to follow an idea all the way through to another interesting idea. That's why small talk annoys us. So does pretending to be happy or excited or anything that we're not."

Amen to that.
posted by chicken nuglet at 2:03 PM on January 2, 2008 [11 favorites]

For someone who claims to be an introvert, she has a pretty shallow understanding of what it means:

We're just focused, and we prefer one-on-one because we like to listen and we want to follow an idea all the way through to another interesting idea. That's why small talk annoys us. So does pretending to be happy or excited or anything that we're not.

That quality is not unique to introverts. Extroverts, intelligent ones, ALSO like to follow an idea all the way through to explore another idea. The state of being introverted or extroverted (which can vary widely according to an individual's mood) is mostly about where you get your energy from, creative or otherwise. As an introvert, it can cost you energy or exhaust you to be in a crowd (or even a one-on-one), so you often need to gather it up before heading out. As an extrovert, your energy can plummet if you are not in a social enough environment, because you are more prone to gather energy from social interaction. Also, many extroverts prefer one-on-one conversations to group events and hate small talk as well.
posted by psmealey at 2:04 PM on January 2, 2008 [4 favorites]

Sheesh. Tell me about it. I went to enough family get-togethers this season to last me for more than a year. My fiance's family doesn't know how to just have a few people over. It's unheard of. Keeping our wedding guest list under 100 people is going to be no small feat. (What do you mean you aren't going to invite my second-cousin's nephew's best friend and his wife and six kids...and their spouses...and their six kids???)

I might have to start drinking.


Well, ok, start drinking more.
posted by Green Eyed Monster at 2:08 PM on January 2, 2008

psmealey wrote: The state of being introverted or extroverted (which can vary widely according to an individual's mood) is mostly about where you get your energy from, creative or otherwise. As an introvert, it can cost you energy or exhaust you to be in a crowd (or even a one-on-one), so you often need to gather it up before heading out. As an extrovert, your energy can plummet if you are not in a social enough environment, because you are more prone to gather energy from social interaction.

That is a much better explanation for introversion vs. extroversion, I agree. I remember when I came across this description of introversion a few years ago, it was like a light went on. I suddenly understood how it could be that I enjoyed the company of others and functioned well in social situations but could feel drained if I did not have the chance to recharge myself with some time alone in between being social.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 2:11 PM on January 2, 2008

But -- but -- what if you're an introvert and a class clown? How do you reconcile that?

*head asplodes*
posted by maudlin at 2:12 PM on January 2, 2008

Oh. Yeah. Drinking more. The solution for everything, really.
posted by maudlin at 2:13 PM on January 2, 2008

But -- but -- what if you're an introvert and a class clown? How do you reconcile that?

That's why I post on MetaFilter.
posted by wendell at 2:17 PM on January 2, 2008 [5 favorites]

*adds wendell as contact*

*bemoans lack of "psychic twin" label*
posted by maudlin at 2:20 PM on January 2, 2008

Well, I certainly hope Jonathan Rauch sues her for plagiarism.
posted by LionIndex at 2:21 PM on January 2, 2008

I am not an introvert. This ring of anti-personnel mines around me pointed out is just my way of saying "please don't interrupt me when I'm drinking."
posted by quin at 2:22 PM on January 2, 2008

I enjoyed reading, all alone, Anneli Rufus' Party of One on the same subject. You may, too.
posted by headspace at 2:22 PM on January 2, 2008

People that live alone, die alone. And they're often happy.
posted by blue_beetle at 2:23 PM on January 2, 2008

I too concur with psmealy's "energy source" definition.

I'd also like to add that some introverts, such as myself and my wife, are even very comfortable around others. We have no trouble striking up conversations with strangers and even find ourselves the focus of attention at large gatherings and we're fine with it. Heck, by all accounts we're both very good public speakers. However it sure the heck takes us (my wife and I) a ton of resolve to get ourselves into such situations in the first place, and the recovery is always a bitch.

Constant contact sets me on edge. Sometimes I think it's because of enhanced empathy, but it could just be hair-trigger misanthropy.

I love my cave. It's where I recharge.

Now, go away, please.
posted by C.Batt at 2:27 PM on January 2, 2008 [6 favorites]

From the article: We saw that play out in the 2004 presidential campaign. Most introverts knew immediately what that campaign-killing screech of Howard Dean was all about. It was the consequence of an introvert trying to act extroverted. I'm sure he attempted that exuberance based on the advice of media consultants: "Dean should be more outgoing, more charismatic." Well, ya know what? Dean wasn't any of those things.

I think I must be the only person on earth who couldn't understand what the big deal about that speech and "the scream" was. It would not have struck me as odd at all if they hadn't play it on an endless loop on all of the twenty-four-hour news networks. Any ten second video clip will start to look stupid if you watch it over and over and follow it up with unfunny quips by the news anchors.

That aside, yes, for sure. Thank god the holidays are over.
posted by The Loch Ness Monster at 2:30 PM on January 2, 2008

I agreed with most of that post except the part about Dean. I met him when I was working for a local candidate for congress and unless he fakes it amazingly well, he's pretty extroverted. He came to a little bar/diner in the town that I lived at the time to kick off the campaign of the candidate's campaign for congress two years ago and totally dominated the attention in the room. He seemed like he was having a grand time shaking hands and chatting with us local campaign workers.

Myself, as a true introvert, found political campaign work to be painful and draining. A three hour shift of phone banking seemed to last about three days. I had to close my eyes and grit my teeth just to force myself to dial each phone call and say "Hi, this is [my name] from [candidate's] campaign for US congress. Do you have a few minutes to talk about some issues important to Western Pennsylvania?" Gah!
posted by octothorpe at 2:33 PM on January 2, 2008

I'm not an introvert, I just don't like people.
posted by Eekacat at 2:37 PM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]

I'm not an introvert, I just don't like people.

And I'm not an extrovert, I just don't like myself.
posted by logicpunk at 2:40 PM on January 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

I hate other introverts. I hate introverts who think they get to define introversion and I hate introverts who only go up to X introverted, and no farther.

I don't hate small talk because I prefer meaningful talk, oh no, I hate it because I know it leads to meaningful talk and I do not care what you think about the world. Do not, do not, do not. Stop talking. Do you want to fight? Because if I have to respond about what I think about this subject, we will be fighting. See how you're just talking about your oh so precious meaningful topic and I'm listening? That's because I do not find it meaningful, I think it's total bunk. Shut up, introvert. Shut up.
posted by birdie birdington at 2:45 PM on January 2, 2008 [4 favorites]

The Dean scream made perfect sense in context. Here's the clip that makes him look a little crazy, screaming for no good reason... and here's a clip that makes him look like a normal guy getting hyped up with the crowd.

The difference is in whether you just use his microphone for the audio, or whether you also include the crowd noise.
posted by Jpfed at 2:47 PM on January 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

"The sole cause of man's unhappiness is that he does not know how to stay quietly in his room."

What a great quote. I've found my new motto.

If anyone needs me, I'll be in my room.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 2:49 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

At the risk of intruding on the alone time of this post, here is another good link.

I need some alone time now.
posted by never used baby shoes at 2:55 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

You've got it all wrong, psmealy. I'm an introvert, and I get almost all of my energy from other people. Usually in the form of steaks, roasts, and sweetbread smoothies. Soylent night, holy shite, all is calm, take a bite, round steak virgins, mother and child, mole infants, so tender and mild, eat in heavenly peace... eat in heavenly peace.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:58 PM on January 2, 2008 [4 favorites]

I thought I was an introvert until I wound up alone in a new town with no friends. It's done wonders for my mefi participation, though.
posted by EatTheWeak at 3:08 PM on January 2, 2008

...imagine a world with NO small talk.

“So...you a Christian?”
“Howabout that Ron Paul?”
“My mother just died.”
etc.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:08 PM on January 2, 2008

blue beetle - great link, thx.
posted by docpops at 3:09 PM on January 2, 2008

Metafilter: Blurring the line between introverted and anti-social for nearly 10 (fucking) years
posted by psmealey at 3:16 PM on January 2, 2008 [4 favorites]

Ha!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:17 PM on January 2, 2008

...well, this link would just like to be alone, OK?

So you put it on MetaFilter. Did you not hear what she was saying?

It's no wonder we introverts are sometimes defensive.
posted by wafaa at 3:17 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I don't know about you, but I sure as hell am enjoying some alone time tonight.

Heh heh heh. Couldn't resist saying that.

I dunno, I think it's a good time to have such a day. Family burnout is a real killer.
posted by jenfullmoon at 3:46 PM on January 2, 2008

As an introvert, it can cost you energy or exhaust you to be in a crowd (or even a one-on-one), so you often need to gather it up before heading out. As an extrovert, your energy can plummet if you are not in a social enough environment, because you are more prone to gather energy from social interaction. Also, many extroverts prefer one-on-one conversations to group events and hate small talk as well.

I don't know what I am, because both of these describe me. It costs me energy to interact with people, and I'm sofuckinghappy the holidays are over, yet I get itchy if I have no social contact. Furthermore, it's rare that I need to be totally alone for more than an hour or two. I enjoy the company of my partner, whether we're actively interacting or not. Other people can mostly stay out of my cave, though.
posted by desjardins at 4:04 PM on January 2, 2008

I'd like to know why introverts can generally understand the extroverted nature, although they prefer not to be that way; but extroverts often seem to miss that there may be a subset of people who don't enjoy large group icebreakers, office events to get everyone mingling, etc. Is this an education issue, due to a minority of people being introverted? Or is it a matter of "does not compute!" within the extroverted paradigm? To be fair, I have met some people who "get it," but not nearly enough.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:07 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I don't know what I am, because both of these describe me.

I've heard it said that it's based on where you primarily get your energy from. I'm somewhat on a spectrum too, as I don't want to be alone all the time. But more often than not, I'm energized by being alone or in small groups, which I believe makes me an introvert. Also, I often enjoy large group interaction at times while at the same time being aware that it's taking a bit out of me to do so. I go home tired, but happy.
posted by SpacemanStix at 4:11 PM on January 2, 2008

How appropriate that I was snowed in and had* to work from home today.

* That's my story if anyone asks.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:24 PM on January 2, 2008

Smedleyman: that sounds completely awesome. Everyone would say exactly what was on their minds, and when they were done... they would shut up. Bliss.
posted by honeydew at 4:26 PM on January 2, 2008

jpfed; thanks for posting the links to dean's 'meltdown.' i didn't have a television at the time and curses i got one almost a year ago & it's sucking the life right OUT of me and all i really knew was that one day dean was the man; the next day, he was gone. i did see clips of 'the scream' as i walked by the tv in the break room, but ... jesus. that's the power of the press to an ovine viewership, i guess. i thought dean looked like a guy fired up to be president, not like some asshole in a jumpsuit on the deck of an aircraft carrier blathering on about how we've won. and yet somehow dean was the crazy guy? what a country.
posted by msconduct at 4:37 PM on January 2, 2008 [6 favorites]

My wife and I are introverts to the bone. Today I spent alone. Not working. Reading,writing, watching our two house cats, our one stray cat and our dog interact. I could do without pets, personally.

But our teenage daughter! A total extrovert! Every night with friends, and most of the day, during vacation. How did that happen? Kids do not turn out like their parents, whether you attribute it to genes, culture, or peer influence.
posted by kozad at 4:44 PM on January 2, 2008

Scene: Interior of residence, late November. A couple is finishing supper, and clearing away dishes.

Me: My holiday party is December 1st. At The Boland's house, in Edgewater.
Him: Crap.
Me: Yeah. It's at least 40 miles from here. Boss says the folks who have to travel a long way can get a hotel room.
Him: Oh that's great. We won't even have the excuse that we have to leave because it's a long drive home.
Me: When is yours?
Him: Crap. It's December 15th, I think.
(pause)
Him: And, remember? We got roped into going over to D's house on the 7th for dinner. Dan will be there, too. She's probably making Mongolian Yak Dick again, or some vegetarian crap I won't eat. There's never any real food.
(pause)
Me: The ladies in my office are trying to organize a date for the cookie swap. I think it's on the 5th, at 3 in the afternoon. If I go, I gotta bake 90 cookies. Crap.
Him: Dammit. I just remembered. We're supposed to go to R's holiday concert on the 18th. I ...
Me: What?
Him: I know I told you. Well, maybe I meant to tell you. I wrote it on my calendar.
Me: Crap.
Him: Yeah. There goes the whole month.
Me: Aw, c'mon. Let's just try to suck it up. It's only once a year.
Him: BUT IT'S EVERY YEAR!
posted by Corky at 5:14 PM on January 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

Well, I certainly hope Jonathan Rauch sues her for plagiarism.

I hope Florence King sues him for plagiarism.
posted by IndigoJones at 5:24 PM on January 2, 2008

I'm not an introvert. I'm just loathsome and shy.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:26 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

Fuck, between the article and the comments, now I don't know what I am. Thanks a lot.
posted by Camofrog at 5:33 PM on January 2, 2008

It's been especially annoying the past two days because whenever anyone asks, "So, howdya spend New Year's Eve?" my options are either circumlocute or be faced with the skeptical nods and pitying smiles of the asker. Yes, I rang in the new year while watching back-to-back episodes of The Office and cleaning off my desk, and I FUCKING LIKED IT.

As I've grown older, I've started caring less that people find it bizarre that I would rather spend time alone than at a totally rockin party, dude. What I dislike is people - even those who know me well - perceiving my need for solitary time as a personal offense. I suppose it's difficult to tell the difference between a flimsy excuse made by an introvert who's trying to escape because they've had enough socializing, and a flimsy excuse made by someone who's trying to escape because they think you're annoying.

On the other hand, despite the assurances in all these sorts of articles that introversion and shyness are completely different, I think there must be a correlation - not least because the two seem mutually perpetuating. The distinction can be fuzzy between staying home because I honestly prefer to stay home, and staying home because all this staying home has exacerbated my pre-existing shyness and I'm afraid to start interacting with people again.
posted by granted at 5:55 PM on January 2, 2008 [4 favorites]

Q- How can you tell which engineer is the extrovert?
A- He is looking down at someone else's shoes.
posted by The Deej at 5:57 PM on January 2, 2008 [5 favorites]

... some introverts, such as myself and my wife...

How does that work? From the point of view of this introvert, marriage seems like a form of hell. Cohabitation would definitely be off the table. At the very least I'd need a private wing in our house.

Mum: Christmas is going to be at Sarah's, at 10:30. [Sarah is my sister]
Me: Um, I might be running a little late, so go ahead and start opening presents without me. Also, I'll bring a couple of DVDs. And a book. Also, I know there's going to be some sort of New Year's thing: whatever it is, I'm not coming.
Mum: Oh, okay.
posted by Ritchie at 6:13 PM on January 2, 2008

I forgot to buy myself a card.
posted by dhartung at 6:22 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

From the point of view of this introvert, marriage seems like a form of hell.

Not if the spouse is an introvert too.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:26 PM on January 2, 2008

I don't think I follow. When I want to be by myself, I don't make exceptions for other introverts (although I can see how their company would be more bearable).

Does the fact that the presence of another introvert is taxing to a lesser degree mean that you don't feel the need to go through periods of completely excluding all human beings?
posted by Ritchie at 6:47 PM on January 2, 2008

hah! i have the next two days off and tomorrow I'm not talking anyone till dinner time :)

and marraige /= hell for introverts. I spent years with another introvert and it was awesome. The only problem was that we became one big super-introvert. "Nah, let's skip the party and just watch movies and fool around tonight." "You're right, honey! You cut class and I'll call in sick to work and we can have a nice day to ourselves!"
posted by es_de_bah at 6:54 PM on January 2, 2008 [2 favorites]

Ritchie - My Spousal Equivalent (the Him in the above scenario) is an 9.8 introvert on a scale of 10. I'm about an 8.9. We give each other plenty of space and time to do our own things. He writes. I have Photoshop and political blogs. I sew. He plays an old-school football game - on an actual board. We have shared interests. The Wire. Sopranos. Deadwood. South Park. On New Year's Eve, we went out to dinner, came home and watched 5 1/2 hours of The Wire. We went to bed at 1 am, but stayed awake talking about the show. We go to movies once in a while. But, we're happy being homebodies. He has an office on the 2nd floor of our townhouse. My space is on the lower level. This works out great.

He's perfect for me, and I'm perfect for him. Neither one of us pushes or pulls the other into being more social than we feel comfortable with, not even with each other. I can tell when he wants more alone-time, and he reads me the same way. Sometimes we need to be completely alone. We give each other this without guilt or recrimination.

I don't know how old you are, but it takes time to figure out how to be happy alone with yourself before you can begin to figure out if it is possible to be happy including someone else. I was miserable for most of my life before I finally got my angles sorted out.
posted by Corky at 7:06 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I didn't know introverted meant friendless. That's kinda... scary.
posted by drea at 7:06 PM on January 2, 2008

I don't know how old you are, but it takes time to figure out how to be happy alone with yourself before you can begin to figure out if it is possible to be happy including someone else. I was miserable for most of my life before I finally got my angles sorted out.
posted by Corky

Just had to post that separately so I could favorite it.
posted by drea at 7:14 PM on January 2, 2008 [3 favorites]

kozad: You live in Denver, right? I just saw your milkman do these awesome party tricks.
posted by martinrebas at 8:05 PM on January 2, 2008

drea: "I didn't know introverted meant friendless. That's kinda... scary."

That might be a tendency with introverts but not a rule. My wife and I are both pretty seriously introverted but we have a lot of friends and pretty active social life. It just takes us a little more work and we need to reserve a little time to decompress after social occasions.
posted by octothorpe at 8:41 PM on January 2, 2008

octothorpe,

indeed. I just meant the thought of me being a friendless introvert is scary; I mean, we all have to make a connection, at least once, even if it takes a while.
posted by drea at 9:06 PM on January 2, 2008

There's a really good short story in Ursula Le Guin's collection The Birthday of the World which describes a society of introverts. Entering someone else's house is considered taboo. Men and women live apart, and in totally different contexts. Much of what we regard as ordinary human interaction (particularly those with subtle and not-so-subtle overtones of manipulation and intimidation) is considered sorcery.

Also, thanks for the perspectives, Brandon Blatcher and Corky.
posted by Ritchie at 9:45 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

There are too many comments in this thread.
posted by HotPatatta at 10:40 PM on January 2, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm fairly introverted, but it seems like a lot of people just claim to be introverted because, like the articles above suggest, introverted people are supposed to be cool and smart and emo and deep and all kinds of tragic that's just too close to gothyland for my tastes.
posted by Poagao at 11:32 PM on January 2, 2008

Ritchie, the key is that spouse realizes you need to be alone and lets you have it. That's the critical part and if it's not there, then yeah, it IS hell.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:30 AM on January 3, 2008

Ritchie-- yes, that short story is called "Solitude" and was a revelation to me when I read it.

I too am finally exhaling behind closed doors after a manic holiday season.
posted by Pallas Athena at 4:21 AM on January 3, 2008

It would seem that I may have part of both sides of this fence. When I have been among too many people, I am run down, and I get energized with alone time. If I am fortunate enough to have all I want of being alone, I get run down, then energized by some social contact.

I like introverted people. I seriously dislike those people who never seem to be alone, that always have some kind of posse with them. I consider that a sign of weakness, even pathetic. What was cool was when, in high school, I had my own posse of introverts. We didn't roam together at all. We occasionally hung out awhile, then went our separate ways.
posted by Goofyy at 5:41 AM on January 3, 2008

"Thats crazy, no one wants to be alone. Here, I'll sit with you and we'll chat."

Well, sometimes we do. Happy shuffup day!
posted by Termite at 6:07 AM on January 3, 2008

Well, sometimes we do.

No you don't, nobody wants that. What do you think of this weather we're having?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:47 AM on January 3, 2008

I hate people, but I love gatherings. Isn't that ironic?
posted by Rarebit Fiend at 9:03 AM on January 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

Get this: it's always the same weather and it's always okay. And when I say "Happy shuffup day" I mean SHUBBUP.

Welcome to the asocial.
posted by Termite at 10:32 AM on January 3, 2008

And when I say "Happy shuffup day" I mean SHUBBUP

Really? That's quite fascinating, I've alway wondered where shuffup, haven't you? Why this reminds of the time that Tom.....
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:01 AM on January 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

honeydew - true. Given, y’know, they shut up. I mean for some folks letting you know when they have to move their bowls is important information.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:22 AM on January 3, 2008

I duck out of everything I can, usually. I have five friends I spend time with, in groups of three or four at a time. It offends people at work, I think; I always turn down their invitations to their "Halloween Party," "X's Birthday Party," "movie night," "game night," and so on. There was also a very extroverted woman who was interested in me, and kept making efforts to get me to "go do something."

Problem is, people get offended or insulted by this ducking-out. They don't understand that "a few people" for "a few hours," "just a quiet gathering," etc. is Hell to me. I don't even see the attraction; the few times I've been roped into something like that, I am bored by the half-hour mark and want to go home and read or play a video game.
posted by sonic meat machine at 1:18 PM on January 3, 2008

desjardins: ME TOO!

It's an odd line between blissful solitude and lonely solitude. I keep trying out little social gatherings (often with the generous assistance of my extroverted partner) and end up remembering that I really don't like people all that much. I mean, I like some people, the ones I've gotten to know, but not the vast crowd of boring, annoying PEOPLE.

You are all conveniently text-based and therefore automatically more interesting.
posted by bassjump at 4:23 PM on January 3, 2008 [1 favorite]

I hate people, but I love gatherings. Isn't that ironic?

Now see, I love people, but I don't like gatherings. Humanity is fascinating and means a lot to me. I also appreciate people as individuals, although it's more what I make of them than what they tell me.

While helpful, I personally don't like definitions that focus on "introverts need to get away to recharge". It's still defining introversion by how it is different from extroversion. What's important is what introverts are doing when they get away. It's not being alone in and of itself that recharges introverts. It's all the things they can do free of distraction when alone that recharges them. Here's a good description:

People who prefer introversion are energized and excited when they are involved with the ideas, images, memories, and reactions that are a part of their inner world. From KnowYourType

I LOVE being by myself, not because I can't stand people, but because solitude offers the best opportunity to explore my inner world, which is often dulled when I'm out in the world. It's not just about people, because I don't even like having a lot to do out there, lots of activities. I prefer single activities and focus. Here is a definition of extroversion from the same site:

People who prefer extraversion are energized by active involvement in events, and they like to be immersed in a breadth of activities. They are most excited when they are around people, and they often have an energized effect on those around them. Extraverts like to move into action and to make things happen--extraverts usually feel very at home in the world.

While socialzing is often quite important to extroverts, there's obviously more to it than "loves people, loves to be around them". There are cranky, anti-social extroverts, and there are vivacious, people-focused introverts.
posted by Danila at 4:36 AM on January 4, 2008 [2 favorites]