Comments on: The Construction Site Called Saudi Arabia

The Construction Site Called Saudi Arabia

stbalbach — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:47:23 -0800

Six new cities are planed in The Construction Site Called Saudi Arabia. "The vision is to turn the kingdom into a major industrial power by 2020. Drawings of these new towns depict a cross of the futuristic "Blade Runner" and traditional Arabic design." The cities will focus on petrochemicals, aluminum, steel and fertilizers, and will together have four times the geographical area of Hong Kong, three times the population of Dubai, and an economic output equal to Singapore's.

First city: King Abdullah Economic City Official Wikipedia CNN clip Second city: Jazan Economic City Wikipedia Third city: Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Musaed Economic City Press release Fourth city: Knowledge Economic City, Medina Official Fifth city: {unknown} Press release Sixth city: {unknown}

By: aramaic

aramaic — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:53:06 -0800

Centrally-planned economies are always such fun; I swear, every bureaucrat on the face of the earth has a copy of Radiant City somewhere on their bookshelf, and spends their lunch hours dreaming of what it would be like if they were the ones in charge of everything, laying out Special Economic Zone Areas Of Cultural Heritage Industries and the like.

By: rokusan

rokusan — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:58:19 -0800

I've never heard Saudis sound so Chinese.

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:00:05 -0800

This would be a great time to develop economically viable nuclear fusion. Just so we can stick it to them.

By: poppo

poppo — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:01:28 -0800

Worst city names ever. I mean they're spending hundreds of billions of dollars and they can't come up with something better than King Abdullah Economic City? By all means, name it after the King, and the other after the Prince, and so on, but give it a little zing or something ferallah's sake

By: PenDevil

PenDevil — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:03:53 -0800

They can ask their pals in Dubai what the best way to exploit migrant labour is...

By: poweredbybeard

poweredbybeard — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:05:03 -0800

You know who's going to love this? The planet Earth.

By: atrazine

atrazine — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:08:30 -0800

They can ask their pals in Dubai what the best way to exploit migrant labour is... The Saudis were exploiting migrant labour when Dubai was still a little pearl fishing and gold smuggling town.

By: jason's_planet

jason's_planet — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:09:03 -0800

The vision is to turn the kingdom into a major industrial power by 2020. In order to build an industrial capitalist economy you need to have a certain set of values in place. Those values are not characteristic of mainstream Saudi culture and are not likely to become so in the space of twelve years. How do you say "white elephant" in Arabic?

By: DU

DU — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:13:21 -0800

In order to build an industrial capitalist economy you need to have a certain set of values in place. Like wanting to screw the little guy? I think the Saudis will be OK with that. Why aren't these guys setting up solar arrays? They've got the location and resources to dominate the next generation of energy supplies and they don't seem to be jumping on board. (Not that I necessarily mind.)

By: biffa

biffa — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:25:02 -0800

This would be a great time to develop economically viable nuclear fusion. Just so we can stick it to them. One joy of any new year is you can move the counter on for fusion. Now expected 2058.

By: billysumday

billysumday — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:31:28 -0800

The cities will focus on petrochemicals, aluminum, steel and fertilizers Do you think they'll make the palm trees and grass out of plastic? Also, isn't it hard to set up a city in the middle of desert? Don't you need something particularly alluring to sustain yourself, like, I don't know, casinos? I can see it now: What happens in Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Musaed Economic City stays in Prince Abdul Aziz Bin Musaed Economic City.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:33:57 -0800

My brother and I have applied for permission to open a kosher delicatessen and then hope to open franchises throughout the Kingdom. Ads will say: My Kingdom for a kosher hotdog, with kraut

By: weapons-grade pandemonium

weapons-grade pandemonium — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:38:07 -0800

Me Jazan. You Tane.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:44:43 -0800

Meanwhile, in Gaza City...

By: specialfriend

specialfriend — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:46:46 -0800

You know who's going to love this? The planet Earth. Why aren't these guys setting up solar arrays? Abu Dhabi is building a zero-waste, zero-carbon, car-less city centered around a new alternative energy industry.

By: nthdegx

nthdegx — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:48:34 -0800

Also, Blue City, Oman.

By: beagle

beagle — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:57:11 -0800

Your gasoline dollars at work.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:06:40 -0800

I like that these are the economic cities, implying the existence of other types. Prince Bandar Hedonism City. King Fahd Doing That Lululululululu Thing City. Prince Conan Crushing Your Enemies Seeing Them Driven Before You And Hearing The Lamentations Of Their Women City. Roscoe's Fried Chicken And Waffle City. Chairman Kaga Culinary Combat City. The mind boggles at what Saudi can achieve.

By: Ironmouth

Ironmouth — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:11:29 -0800

The cities will focus on petrochemicals, aluminum, steel and fertilizers Why anyone would be focusing on dead industrial models is beyond me.

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:14:24 -0800

They better get cracking on Desalination City before their aquifer is depleted. You can't manufacture steel or fertilizer without water, let alone provide for human habitation.

By: me & my monkey

me & my monkey — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:19:04 -0800

I like that these are the economic cities, implying the existence of other types. It's been done: King Khalid Military City

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:21:45 -0800

The cities will focus on petrochemicals, aluminum, steel and fertilizers Why anyone would be focusing on dead industrial models is beyond me. They're looking to India and China as their main partners, I imagine.

By: TwelveTwo

TwelveTwo — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:22:24 -0800

This will make for some fantastic modern ruin photography.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:24:36 -0800

The industries are "dead" in the US because other countries can do it cheaper. They rely on oil: aluminum and steel need cheap sources of energy, fertilizer is made with fossil fuel. The idea is, rather than exporting raw products to be mfg'd somewhere else, do the mfg in-house. It creates jobs, improves standard of living, creates a viable long-term economy that in time will evolve to the point where it won't be dependent on oil, if/when the day comes oil is no longer the cash cow it is now.

By: mattbucher

mattbucher — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:32:11 -0800

The cities will focus on petrochemicals I was expecting soybeans and copper mines.... oh well.

By: dios

dios — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:39:07 -0800

Is the goal of these cities to be places for Saudis to move to? Or are they trying to attract Westerners to move there? Their advertising seems to suggest the latter to me.

By: dios

dios — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:47:59 -0800

(Erm, I should note that my reaction was specific to the website for the Blue City which includes a picture of a Western model on a yacht. That struck me as odd. Looking back over the Saudi pictures, I guess they are in traditional dress.)

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:49:18 -0800

Better than oil.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:51:28 -0800

It's a good thing to diversify in Saudi Arabia. There is a direct connection between a single, easily-dominated industry and the funding of extremists. Any diversification is a plus for the country and the world's future. Dios, most likely they will need lots and lots of Westerners in order to get these up and running. They won't need to 'advertise' to the locals nearly as much.

By: notyou

notyou — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:51:49 -0800

It's about time they did something worthwhile with all that oil money.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:52:58 -0800

They better get cracking on Desalination City before their aquifer is depleted. You can't manufacture steel or fertilizer without water, let alone provide for human habitation. That's what desalinization plants are for. Trouble is, you need a lot of electricity for that, electricity that can come from burning petrochemicals. Now where can you find a shitload of petrochemicals? Hmmm....

By: awenner

awenner — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:53:05 -0800

The Saudis have been working on this kind of thing since oil prices started to jump around in the mid-80s. The main thing standing in their way has been the fact that way in the beginning, when oil was expensive and life was good, the Kingdom promised huge benefits to the population - and to major opposition figures - to keep things running smoothly. When oil started to go down, the Saudis tried to cut back on spending, but found they couldn't do it. People had gotten used to the subsidized gas and the free healthcare and the funds to keep you quiet and happy if the presence of the kafir American soldiers on your soil got you bothered. So, the Kingdom has been trying to diversify for some time now, but just hasn't got the hang of it. Oil's too valuable and the revenue too necessary to allow you to divert your government funds to alternative projects. The hope with these cities is to let them be both industrial zones and benefit generators. Want to live in a cheap apartment? Move to King Abdullah Awesomeness City! Want a free school for your kids? For definitely! But you have to promise to retrain as an aluminum factory worker. As for exploiting migrant labor, Saudi is actually in the opposite position. They have too many citizens hanging around not working, and their plan - again, since the mid-80s - has been trying to convince them to get back to work. My guess is that these cities will be part of that strategy. Oh, and Jasons_Planet? The word for "white elephant" in Arabic is al-phiil al-abyad, الفيل الابيض.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:54:24 -0800

It creates jobs, improves standard of living, creates a viable long-term economy that in time will evolve to the point where it won't be dependent on oil, if/when the day comes oil is no longer the cash cow it is now. Which is exactly what Dr. Bashir and Matt Damon were going for in Syriana...

By: jason's_planet

jason's_planet — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 10:20:12 -0800

The word for "white elephant" in Arabic is al-phiil al-abyad, الفيل الابيض. Much obliged. Thank you!

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:00:42 -0800

They should build a secret Hedonism City too. Then men won't have to travel out of Saudi Arabia to break Sharia and have wild drunken orgies anymore. And women could drive & stuff.

By: miss lynnster

miss lynnster — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:05:12 -0800

jason's planet... just FYI I believe "THE white elephant" is al-phiil al-abyad and "A white elephant" is phiil abyad. The first is if you're talking specific/definite, the second is general/indefinite. Not that it matters to anyone. I'm just shocked that knowing some arabic actually came in handy in a conversation so I thought I'd share.

By: Sauce Trough

Sauce Trough — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:31:18 -0800

I can see why they'd go for aluminium. Making aluminium requires enormous amounts of power. Having cheap energy available locally really gives you a leg up in that biz. Iceland, with its cheap geothermal power, produces a lot of aluminium. It's actually cost-effective to ship Australian bauxite halfway across the world to Iceland for processing. Mind you, I wouldn't want to live next to a Saudi aluminium facility. Aluminium production is an awful polluter.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:56:15 -0800

Well congrats to them if they find their way out of the oil trap, though one can't help having the feeling it'll just be another massive egowank rather than anything viable.

By: doctor_negative

doctor_negative — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 12:48:10 -0800

All this stuff is going to be built at sea level?

By: Unicorn on the cob

Unicorn on the cob — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:08:49 -0800

I wonder if they will let people drink alcohol at "Seera Land"? the idea of an Islamic theme park is very... interesting to me. I can't imagine a theme park without alcohol, and yet, if there is one in the world, this will definitely be it, right? (It's in Knowledge Economic City, Medina). I'm sorry, but the names of these cities are making me have Epcot flashbacks for some reason.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:18:02 -0800

They should build a secret Hedonism City too. Some people call this place "Bahrain." Or, London. ;-)

By: WPW

WPW — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:26:44 -0800

Nice stuff. Thanks for the link to the NYT piece, I was unaware of these plans. Briefly, on new "green" cities: a new green city is a contradiction in terms. The energy deployed in building an entirely new city of any kind will always, always, be more wasteful than using that energy to make an existing city work better for more people. Unless stupendous population growth and/or rural-urban migration is occurring, building new cities is a massively wasteful thing to do, no matter how many solar panels you stick on top of them. New build is always more wasteful than energy-efficiency on the infrastructure we have. It is madness to claim something is green because it consumes little or no energy after an absurd quantity of energy has been expended bringing it into existence in the first place. I love a good utopian city scheme, and I wish citybuilders everywhere every success and congratulate them on their ambition, but new cities are never "green".

By: WPW

WPW — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:29:50 -0800

NB I'm aware the Saudis aren't making these claims, I was mostly talking about Abu Dhabi and the various Chinese schemes. It was a bee that has been buzzing in my bonnet for a while and I feel much better now I've had a bit of a rant. Green cities, I don't think. Pfeh. Bah, humbug. Etc.

By: sour cream

sour cream — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 13:44:21 -0800

This is clearly a sign that there is much less oil left in Saudi Arabia than everybody thinks there is.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:59:13 -0800

This is clearly a sign that there is much less oil left in Saudi Arabia than everybody thinks there is. Or it could be exactly the opposite, and they're counting on continuing oil revenues to bankroll these massive projects while they diversify into other economies at their leisure.

By: crowman

crowman — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:53:49 -0800

Hey, where are all the famous glass parking lots I've been hearing so much about???

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 19:02:43 -0800

The one brainstumper for me is this: Dubai is about three feet above sea level. Saudi Arabia surely isn't much higher in elevation. WTF are they going to do as the sea levels rise? I know they've got sand up the wazoo for the sand-bagging anti-flood efforts, but unless they're planning to pull a Holland, I don't see that there's a whole lot of win in the future for them.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 20:58:31 -0800

I don't know what the average height is however there are a lot of mountains in Saudi Arabia, some are as high as 3000m above sea level.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:41:03 -0800

fff, Saudi Arabia is larger than Alaska. There's no sense characterizing all of it on the basis of the elevation of a port city on the same landmass. Port cities have this certain characteristic of being close to sea level.

By: Clay201

Clay201 — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:48:22 -0800

Ten bucks says this is part of their payoff for going along with Bush on the Iraq war.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 23:36:36 -0800

dhartung writes "Port cities have this certain characteristic of being close to sea level" Sure, at least a bit. but not every port is New Orleans flood plain flat. Québec is a port city but it's a good 600 ft above sea level and isn't at risk from global warming caused flooding. Doesn't San Fransisco have a port of some sort? Lots of well above sea level areas there. Even Halifax right on the ocean has lots of land well above sea level.

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:03:25 -0800

WTF are they going to do as the sea levels rise? Apparently you've never heard of the Netherlands?

By: jackbrown

jackbrown — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:55:58 -0800

For anyone who's interested in a more substantial look at this topic, there's an excellent book by Terry Karl, called The Paradox of Plenty: Oil Booms and Petro-States, which treats the sort of remarkable failure of oil-states to do anything at all successfully, except buy off their populations until the oil runs out or prices fall (at which point there is inevtiably massive unrest). There's a lot to this book, among other things a theory about why rentier countries (basically, countries with lots of oil) don't become democracies. Apropos of the FPP topic, she shows why these kinds of projects have almost never worked in the past: the massive public investment schemes of Venezuela in the 70s and Algeria before and after, directed at creating a modern industrial economy, were doomed to failure by the very nature of the system which attempted to create them: state directed industrialization. This may sound like some kind of World Bank/Neoliberal only-private-investment-works propaganda but I assure you it isn't. I'm not entirely convinced by her arguments or even by the rentier state model but I think it has value. Oh, also, for even further reading, there's Giacomo Luciani's original book: he invented the rentier theory that Karl is working with; incredibly, his book is out of print, but I'm sure it can be dug up somewhere. As for the Saudis and their absurd scheme: good luck with that. Or, actually, not.