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Sentenced to Death
February 2, 2008 5:02 PM   Subscribe


 
This is Afghanistan – not in Taliban times but six years after "liberation" and under the democratic rule of the West's ally Hamid Karzai.
These two things are no longer mutually exclusive.
posted by Brak at 5:05 PM on February 2, 2008




Crap... thanks for the update.
posted by butterstick at 5:26 PM on February 2, 2008


Ummmm..... Haven't we installed our own puppet government their yet? Seems weird to still be having disagreements about women's equality. Just another example of religion stifling progress.
posted by Mr_Zero at 5:33 PM on February 2, 2008


I wonder what Emma Thompson will have to say about this.
posted by Naberius at 5:39 PM on February 2, 2008


Haven't we installed our own puppet government their yet?

Metafilter does puppet governments now?
posted by mattoxic at 5:42 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


This will givewell
posted by Eekacat at 5:44 PM on February 2, 2008


Metafilter does puppet governments now?

Sockpuppet governments, pancake republics, it's all the same.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:52 PM on February 2, 2008 [3 favorites]


So it's the old hustler's complaint : "Somebody's not playing the cards I dealt them!"
posted by Pinback at 5:55 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Freedom is on the march!
posted by [expletive deleted] at 5:55 PM on February 2, 2008


He was accused of blasphemy after he downloaded a report from a Farsi website which stated that Muslim fundamentalists who claimed the Koran justified the oppression of women had misrepresented the views of the prophet Mohamed.

Any links to this report? What if the report is right, that there is a misrepresentation? How can they say that they are still really following and the Koran and Mohamed if they are not willing to occasionally practice a little introspection?
posted by eye of newt at 5:55 PM on February 2, 2008


Any links to this report?

I've yet to find any download links, but several articles give the title as "The Koranic Verses That Discriminate Against Women," written by an Iranian-born atheist who goes by the pen name Arash Bikhoda (godless in Persian).
posted by F Mackenzie at 6:25 PM on February 2, 2008


Ah but of course, a "technical mistake". That's not what I'd want to hear in the afterlife.

Anywho, this is atrocious. Does anyone know what the word on church mosque and state is in Afghanistan?
posted by pyrex at 6:25 PM on February 2, 2008


Fucking savages.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:39 PM on February 2, 2008


Fucking savages, again.

At any rate, if this really is WW3 or 4 I really wish we were fighting it as so, and not some half-assed sideshow it has become.
posted by panamax at 7:07 PM on February 2, 2008


You know, I am all about cultural relativism, but you gotta draw a line at insanity like this.

Fucking savages3.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:17 PM on February 2, 2008


This is why organized religion sucks.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 7:18 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


The Taliban has made a very big comeback and in many areas, the people have begun to take a
much friendlier view toward them. As forour bringing/imposing democracy, much the same goes on in Iraq, where Christians are being forced out of the country and those that remain must practise their beliefs in secret places. And of course Iraq too does not recognize the state of Israel, though there are Jewish-Amrican soldiers in that country to help bring about democracy.
posted by Postroad at 7:19 PM on February 2, 2008


This is why organized religion sucks.

If I only had a penny for each time that applied.
posted by Mr_Zero at 7:22 PM on February 2, 2008


Right, but Abu Ghraib doesn't make *us* "fucking savages." Because all Afghan people are savages if their government does something barbaric, just like all Americans are savages because of Abu Ghraib.
posted by fourcheesemac at 7:33 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Right, but Abu Ghraib doesn't make *us* "fucking savages." Because all Afghan people are savages if their government does something barbaric, just like all Americans are savages because of Abu Ghraib.

Well sure our rulers are savages, but at least the don't discriminate. We torture, murder equally.
posted by Mr_Zero at 7:36 PM on February 2, 2008


Here's where the ignorance and the unexamined racism is vented.
posted by Burhanistan at 7:56 PM on February 2, 2008 [2 favorites]


Baiscally in 10 years time the country will have completely reset itself, bar the odd concrete fortification.
posted by Artw at 8:19 PM on February 2, 2008


pyrex: "Anywho, this is atrocious. Does anyone know what the word on church mosque and state is in Afghanistan?"

Well, the word seems to be "talk about it and we'll kill you."

Someone find me Charlie Wilson. I want to slap him in the face.
posted by Kadin2048 at 8:44 PM on February 2, 2008


He should pretend to have ties to Al-Qaeda, then he can be rescued and flown to Gitmo for safety.
posted by Stonestock Relentless at 9:17 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


Let me clarify, just so I'm not misunderstood. I can only speak for myself, so take this with a grain of salt, also with the understanding that I am not addressing this to any one person. Anyone who can get on board with killing a journalist for handing out pieces of paper that question a translation (of anything, including "holy" texts) is less than human. As far as equivocation with the shady U.S. government / out-of-control military service people, etc, I agree that they're generally a pack of savages as well. I personally do not lump all Afghanis together, just as I don't lump all Americans together, or all military personnel. But the ones that sanction and enforce these behaviors-- Sharia courts, fundies of ANY stripe, etc . . . well, they ought to--in the words of another poster in another unrelated thread--be "loaded into a cannon and shot into the sun."

The world is filled with assholes.
posted by exlotuseater at 9:33 PM on February 2, 2008


It's awful and very understandable that their religious leaders do this.
They look at Europe f.i. and don't see a state of happy people where religion is a choice. They see a place where religion is weak and morals are debased. To them a weak religion means a society without anchor.
So they get more hard line the more the West tries to make the role of religion in Afghanistan more nuanced.
posted by jouke at 9:42 PM on February 2, 2008


Just another example of religion stifling progress.

Mr_Zero, that's apparently all you see happening over there, isn't it?
posted by hermitosis at 9:56 PM on February 2, 2008


This dirty world is filled with savages who are willing to kill their brothers and sisters for the cheapest of reasons and I deplore them all, I don't really care where they're from.
posted by Divine_Wino at 9:58 PM on February 2, 2008 [1 favorite]


I'd look the other way if they had some oil to sell me.
posted by TrialByMedia at 10:36 PM on February 2, 2008


Does anyone know what the word on church mosque and state is in Afghanistan?

I believe it's called The Islamic Republic of Afghanistan. And it's not mosque & state, it's more like msotsaqtuee.
posted by dhartung at 12:42 AM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]


Heh, so in Afghanistan it's OK to marry 11-year-olds or sell them as gambling debts, but not to distribute a piece of paper?

Clearly, all cultures are not equal, and this part of Afghani/Islamic culture sucks bigtime, even though the child-marrying thing seems to follow a tradition started by the prophet Mohammed himself.

We should also keep this in mind when someone comes up again with the stupid idea of setting up sharia courts in Western countries, as I believe was proposed in Canada a while ago.
posted by sour cream at 2:25 AM on February 3, 2008


sour cream, this has very little to do with "culture," equal or not.

we buy and sell children all the time in the US, by the way. but we dress it up in pink and blue and call it adoption. or advertising.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:30 AM on February 3, 2008


we buy and sell children all the time in the US, by the way. but we dress it up in pink and blue and call it adoption. or advertising.

At least here it's illegal to fuck them. I'm not sure how you can compare selling off an 11yr old for marriage to adoption, which gives children, who might otherwise live a terrible life, a loving family (usually).
posted by IronLizard at 7:59 AM on February 3, 2008


Pardon the extraneous comma there.
posted by IronLizard at 8:00 AM on February 3, 2008


Just another example of religion stifling progress.

Mr_Zero, that's apparently all you see happening over there, isn't it?


Yes, that pretty much sums up my views.
posted by Mr_Zero at 9:47 AM on February 3, 2008


Seconding IronLizard - there's a world of difference between adoption as practiced by the West and selling off an 11yr old for marriage. But this is what complicates it for me - so there are parts of Afghani culture that I find repugnant, and there are parts of Western culture that Afghanis find repugnant. What's to stop this from a simple matter of "might makes right"? The answer, I fear, is nothing - which depresses me...
posted by fingers_of_fire at 10:01 AM on February 3, 2008


there are parts of Western culture that Afghanis find repugnant

And apparently, free speech and religious toleration are two of those parts.
posted by [expletive deleted] at 10:36 AM on February 3, 2008


Isn't Afghanistan one of the poorest countries in the world? I'm somewhat surprised that there isn't more wrong with the place, regardless of the dominant religion. Even if they were all hard atheists, given the amount of poverty running rampant in the country it's likely that there'd still be things happening that would shock the conscience.

Of course with that being the case, it makes the Saudis look like jerks. Last I checked they still behead people for apostasy, and they can't use desperate poverty as an excuse for their bronze-age legal system..
posted by mullingitover at 1:55 PM on February 3, 2008


The WTFiest part about the retraction is that it seems the Afghan Senate thinks convicting someone without representation is a bad thing. Apparently he's got a right to representation but no basic freedom of expression.

So would a defense lawyer have to argue directly against the blasphemy ruling? Would the writings in question even be admissible?
posted by butterstick at 2:15 PM on February 3, 2008


Blame the old people, the kids here want to live in a normal country.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:29 PM on February 3, 2008


We torture, murder equally.

Oh bollocks.

Now having said that, I don't see how the barbarism of the US excuses the barbarism of Afghanistan.
posted by pompomtom at 7:13 PM on February 3, 2008


Meatbomb, why are the old people so crazed, and how do the kids come to find different views in a place where dissent is so brutally supressed?
posted by [expletive deleted] at 9:47 PM on February 3, 2008


As usual with Afghanistan, there's a whole load here going on that doesn't come out. The guy's brother has been writing about some of the big bad Balkhis for some time with the Institute of War and Peace Reporting. Balkh and Mazar have an exceptionally complicated political background determined by all four of the major ethnicities, interlocking and mutually dependent. I worked up there for two years, and never really got how the alliances formed and shifted. The Western media doesn't really plumb the complexities. While this death sentence is savagery, attributing what is happening to one easy rubric (religion, Islam, whatever) means you almost invariably don't know what you're talking about.
posted by YouRebelScum at 4:06 AM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]




And they all carried US made assault rifles happily ever after...

note that's a Palestinian, not an Afghani, but I thought it strangely appropriate to this thread.
posted by Burhanistan at 8:15 PM on February 5, 2008


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