But what about the platypi?
February 3, 2008 8:46 PM Subscribe
It's hard to believe that, back before the Internet but after the first edition of Dungeons of Dragons, there was a time when we had no easy way to pool the world's knowledge of evolutionary biology, lizard genetics, Pern, and martians to answer that most pressing question: should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without?
I see nothing wrong with humans drawing female dragons with large breasts, nor do I see anything wrong with dragons drawing female humans with seductively shaped tails and headcrests.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2008 [20 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:00 PM on February 3, 2008 [20 favorites]
it's a tempest in a d-cup.
posted by kuujjuarapik at 9:05 PM on February 3, 2008 [32 favorites]
posted by kuujjuarapik at 9:05 PM on February 3, 2008 [32 favorites]
Putting giant bosoms on a dragon-descended humanoid? What fresh furry hell is this?
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:05 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:05 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
What fresh furry scaly hell is this?
Fixed that, etc.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:07 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Fixed that, etc.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:07 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Fifteen pages...
man, I love the obsessing of RPG geeks.
posted by vertigo25 at 9:14 PM on February 3, 2008
man, I love the obsessing of RPG geeks.
posted by vertigo25 at 9:14 PM on February 3, 2008
should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without?
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "with," Bob. With.
Otherwise the masturbatory fantasies get too weird.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:29 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "with," Bob. With.
Otherwise the masturbatory fantasies get too weird.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 9:29 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Before anybody writes in to complain, I should say that the Dragonborn are not descended from dragons -- they're a transformative race created by beings of other races who elect to undergo a ceremony that transforms them dragon-alikes.
I've gone way too deep into this, haven't I?
posted by ntk at 9:36 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
I've gone way too deep into this, haven't I?
posted by ntk at 9:36 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: Otherwise the masturbatory fantasies get too weird.
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:38 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:38 PM on February 3, 2008
Attention furries: female dragons, lizards and avianoids(?) are not going to have massive, bouncy tits. I'd also be surprised that, if such creatures were to naturally evolve, that the males would also have huge, veiny, porn-star-esque dongers.
But seriously. This is like arguing whether or not Yoda could defeat Superman in a 1-on-1 basketball game. I'm ashamed that I can even conceive of such a thing.
Superman would rock the court. Totally.
posted by Avenger at 9:40 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
But seriously. This is like arguing whether or not Yoda could defeat Superman in a 1-on-1 basketball game. I'm ashamed that I can even conceive of such a thing.
Superman would rock the court. Totally.
posted by Avenger at 9:40 PM on February 3, 2008 [3 favorites]
Oh, Hell.
The Dragonriders of Porn.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:47 PM on February 3, 2008 [9 favorites]
The Dragonriders of Porn.
posted by louche mustachio at 9:47 PM on February 3, 2008 [9 favorites]
I always wondered why anyone would want to chase the dragon.
posted by Crabby Appleton at 9:55 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by Crabby Appleton at 9:55 PM on February 3, 2008
Yoda. So Yoda.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:09 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:09 PM on February 3, 2008
I think the official word for "having breasts in spite of otherwise being reptilian in appearance" should be "sleestacked."
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 10:18 PM on February 3, 2008 [22 favorites]
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 10:18 PM on February 3, 2008 [22 favorites]
TTIWWP
Oh wait, I thought I was at Fark...
It's the convergence of all community blogs: FarkFilterDot
posted by mecran01 at 10:21 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Oh wait, I thought I was at Fark...
It's the convergence of all community blogs: FarkFilterDot
posted by mecran01 at 10:21 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without?
The answer to both questions is 'no'.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
The answer to both questions is 'no'.
posted by Serial Killer Slumber Party at 10:24 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
tits or gtfo.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:26 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 10:26 PM on February 3, 2008
Penis goes where? asked the mermaid.
posted by Dr. Curare at 10:44 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by Dr. Curare at 10:44 PM on February 3, 2008
Yeah, that last link should have examples of attractive lizard women, you know, so we have a baseline for debate.
posted by vrakatar at 10:45 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by vrakatar at 10:45 PM on February 3, 2008
Well, actual female humanoids descended from dragons sometimes have ginormous racks, and sometimes they don't. One can't go wrong drawing them either way.
As an aside, female humanoids descended from dragons who are under-endowed will often elect to have breast-augmenting cosmetic surgery, because humanoid descended from dragon culture imposes an unrealistic standard of beauty on female humanoids descended from dragons.
Now that I think about it, female humanoids descended from dragons aren't so different than us.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 11:02 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
As an aside, female humanoids descended from dragons who are under-endowed will often elect to have breast-augmenting cosmetic surgery, because humanoid descended from dragon culture imposes an unrealistic standard of beauty on female humanoids descended from dragons.
Now that I think about it, female humanoids descended from dragons aren't so different than us.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 11:02 PM on February 3, 2008 [2 favorites]
Seriously, just pick one, and justify it for yourself. (I mean pseudo-scientifically justify, not morally justify.) I've thought of at least two reasons to choose each option for the creature just now, and since I can't even be bothered posting them there, I'm not going to bother posting them here.
However I do think it's worth making a meta-filter-ish comment on the debate: there are a proportion of RPG geeks (and the same goes for comic book geeks) who seem to have an overwhelming need to establish an objective canon. "Should" is not meaningful in this question. The zeroth rule of D&D is, the GM (and by extension, the players) can alter any other rule. This includes what classes and races the players can choose for characters, what they look like, what they behave like, etc. Same goes for gnomes and half-orcs: you are allowed to put them in your campaign. That they are no longer in the base book is not relevant unless your group wants it to be.
It stuns me sometimes how much people, when given free reign to exercise their imaginations, will turn to each other and ask "what should I think?".
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:10 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
However I do think it's worth making a meta-filter-ish comment on the debate: there are a proportion of RPG geeks (and the same goes for comic book geeks) who seem to have an overwhelming need to establish an objective canon. "Should" is not meaningful in this question. The zeroth rule of D&D is, the GM (and by extension, the players) can alter any other rule. This includes what classes and races the players can choose for characters, what they look like, what they behave like, etc. Same goes for gnomes and half-orcs: you are allowed to put them in your campaign. That they are no longer in the base book is not relevant unless your group wants it to be.
It stuns me sometimes how much people, when given free reign to exercise their imaginations, will turn to each other and ask "what should I think?".
posted by aeschenkarnos at 11:10 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Erm, wait...this isn't the V fan club?
As a person who embraces humor, biology, herpetology, forums, art, sci-fi, "What if?" discourse, fantasy, and general nerd-ery, I pray to the orb-what-warms-my-rock-so-that-I-can-digest-meals that this does not devolve into a net-acronym-laden series of exclamations about anatomy that eventually devolves into a(n) in-thread or MeTa free-for-all about sexism.
The links in the original post highlight some OMG boyzone-isms that occur within the D&D realm. The explanations, science, and pseudo-science show me a slice of other people's lives. Fun stuff, that.
Are female humanoid-dragonish beings susceptible to being bland-looking creatures like many other species of creatures? The onus is upon the male in many instances to distinguish himself by appearance.
posted by bonobo at 11:34 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
As a person who embraces humor, biology, herpetology, forums, art, sci-fi, "What if?" discourse, fantasy, and general nerd-ery, I pray to the orb-what-warms-my-rock-so-that-I-can-digest-meals that this does not devolve into a net-acronym-laden series of exclamations about anatomy that eventually devolves into a(n) in-thread or MeTa free-for-all about sexism.
The links in the original post highlight some OMG boyzone-isms that occur within the D&D realm. The explanations, science, and pseudo-science show me a slice of other people's lives. Fun stuff, that.
Are female humanoid-dragonish beings susceptible to being bland-looking creatures like many other species of creatures? The onus is upon the male in many instances to distinguish himself by appearance.
posted by bonobo at 11:34 PM on February 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
This is so dumb. Somebody please tell these people that humanoids-descended-from-dragons don't even exist.
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:36 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by Joseph Gurl at 11:36 PM on February 3, 2008
Back to the forum and its total jackpot of dumbassery; an evo-psych argument that humans have fatty bumps on their chests so that they will look like butts, because primates find butt cracks sexy, and since we walk upright and do it face to face sometimes, we like to be looking at some frontal butt-cleavage:
"A quite popular theory among biologists is that the form of a woman's busom is meant to emulate that of her behind..."
I've heard this all over the place too. Is this some sort of weird evolution-based urban legend?
posted by ODiV at 11:57 PM on February 3, 2008
"A quite popular theory among biologists is that the form of a woman's busom is meant to emulate that of her behind..."
I've heard this all over the place too. Is this some sort of weird evolution-based urban legend?
posted by ODiV at 11:57 PM on February 3, 2008
The whole point is that it's imaginary. I say it's up to the individual. Really, I don't see how anything could logically evolve into a humanoid shape other than a mammal, so thinking of anything that's humanoid but not mammal pretty much ensures full artistic license.
I think the reason these nerds are writing for 15 pages about it is because games like D&D are built up on rules, and the people who enjoy those games want rules to govern their fantasy of the game-world and thus better define it. Plus, there's the sexual element, which excites them as it's a taboo topic being discussed in a situation where it seems appropriate. However, to an outsider, it all looks very misogynistic, which it is.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:09 AM on February 4, 2008
I think the reason these nerds are writing for 15 pages about it is because games like D&D are built up on rules, and the people who enjoy those games want rules to govern their fantasy of the game-world and thus better define it. Plus, there's the sexual element, which excites them as it's a taboo topic being discussed in a situation where it seems appropriate. However, to an outsider, it all looks very misogynistic, which it is.
posted by mccarty.tim at 12:09 AM on February 4, 2008
Hey, these people have some hold on reality. At least no-one screamed Fuck you I'm a dragon.
posted by sien at 12:16 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by sien at 12:16 AM on February 4, 2008
First I put on my robe and wizard hat.
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:42 AM on February 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by Astro Zombie at 12:42 AM on February 4, 2008 [6 favorites]
I’ve had arguments like that-- anyone who loves fantasy has to write a dissertation on lizard tits, or worse, at some point. How else can we learn to hate such discussions? The cool water of escapism is so pleasant to us at first! Spend a thousand hours waist deep in another world, free and afloat, with your disbelief suspended, and you’ll find you’re sore tempted to plunge in your head. How is ore distributed in a dwarven mine? What magic keeps giants from caving in? Immerse yourself so far, and you’ll find the water fast stings your eyes. There is some fun to be had that way, sure, but it’s much better to keep your head out of it-- especially if you're going to sex it up. There's nothing to be gained by half-justifying a half-fetish. Lizard boobs, man!
posted by Fimbaz at 1:24 AM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Fimbaz at 1:24 AM on February 4, 2008 [2 favorites]
OF COURSE hybrid humanoid-reptillian women had giant mammary glands! IF you Google MING THE MERCILESS, you'd realise our FEARLESS LEADER have some of them among HIS SIXTY WIVES.
posted by Smart Dalek at 2:34 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Smart Dalek at 2:34 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Incidentally, I feel it is very important to point out that female dwarves do, indeed, have beards.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:26 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:26 AM on February 4, 2008
Q: You like dragons? You are a person who likes the dragon acts that we are currently arguing abou?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:58 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:58 AM on February 4, 2008
The years-old mystery of finding my roommate's iguana in its cage with a pair of lemons taped to its abdomen has been solved. Unfortunately.
posted by maxwelton at 3:58 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by maxwelton at 3:58 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
yeah but, do male lizardmen have two penises?
In fact I seem to remember reading a review (By Dave Langford I seem to remember) of some mind-boggling bad sounding semi-porn fantasy novel where indeed that was the case, and noted that the female heroine (who no doubt wore a chain mail bikini) was able to get double the fun at the same time, as it were.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:03 AM on February 4, 2008
In fact I seem to remember reading a review (By Dave Langford I seem to remember) of some mind-boggling bad sounding semi-porn fantasy novel where indeed that was the case, and noted that the female heroine (who no doubt wore a chain mail bikini) was able to get double the fun at the same time, as it were.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 4:03 AM on February 4, 2008
And I have to go to Iraq, to rescue these hostages. And I get there and I rescue them, but they're all women and they're naked because their clothes have rotted off.
posted by XMLicious at 4:55 AM on February 4, 2008 [7 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 4:55 AM on February 4, 2008 [7 favorites]
Why don't cat-chicks in this sort of thing have 4 pairs of breasts? And what would be wrong with that many? Don't you ever wish you met a girl who had that many? Think of all the news things you'd be able to try out.
posted by longbaugh at 5:41 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by longbaugh at 5:41 AM on February 4, 2008
Bah, that site with the Patrick Stewart video went down. Pathetic. Here it is on Google video.
posted by XMLicious at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 6:14 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't even know what to say. But this is interesting:
. . . It all reminds me of the Very Small Epiphany I had lately as I stared at the mesmerizing buttcrack of an acquaintance of mine. For the generation just below mine, letting their butt crack fly free is just like wearing a low cut shirt to show some cleavage. I amused and horrified Minnie by explaining this and adding the prediction that within 5 years there will be a fashion of pants that go even lower and have lacy or transparent panels in the back to reveal even more subtly shadowed, alluring, sexy crack. She didn't believe me! Fine! But it did come true about how everyone in 10 years would be wearing hats with cat ears... I called that one too.
There is money here.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:09 AM on February 4, 2008
. . . It all reminds me of the Very Small Epiphany I had lately as I stared at the mesmerizing buttcrack of an acquaintance of mine. For the generation just below mine, letting their butt crack fly free is just like wearing a low cut shirt to show some cleavage. I amused and horrified Minnie by explaining this and adding the prediction that within 5 years there will be a fashion of pants that go even lower and have lacy or transparent panels in the back to reveal even more subtly shadowed, alluring, sexy crack. She didn't believe me! Fine! But it did come true about how everyone in 10 years would be wearing hats with cat ears... I called that one too.
There is money here.
posted by exlotuseater at 7:09 AM on February 4, 2008
First I put on my robe and wizard hat.
I take off my robe and DD wizard bra.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on February 4, 2008
I take off my robe and DD wizard bra.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 7:15 AM on February 4, 2008
I fear something terrible has happened.
posted by ersatz at 7:42 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by ersatz at 7:42 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
This amused me, what the first link called the lone voice of sanity:
The next time we're all sitting around wondering why there aren't more girls in D&D, you can think back to this thread.
This nine page long thread about boobs.
Just putting some perspective on here.
posted by artifarce at 9:15 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
The next time we're all sitting around wondering why there aren't more girls in D&D, you can think back to this thread.
This nine page long thread about boobs.
Just putting some perspective on here.
posted by artifarce at 9:15 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
A small request to try to talk about these links in a way that is at least as respectful of actual women and less OMGBOOBIES as the discussion forum linked by ntk.
posted by onlyconnect at 9:39 AM on February 4, 2008
posted by onlyconnect at 9:39 AM on February 4, 2008
OF COURSE hybrid humanoid-reptillian women had giant mammary glands! IF you Google MING THE MERCILESS, you'd realise our FEARLESS LEADER have some of them among HIS SIXTY WIVES.
Why is the mainstream media ignoring the success of MING THE MERCILESS in acquiring many lizard wives?
Do your research!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:40 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why is the mainstream media ignoring the success of MING THE MERCILESS in acquiring many lizard wives?
Do your research!
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 9:40 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Hypothesis: The more socially awkward a man is, the less successful he will be with women, and the less contact he is likely to have with actual boobies. The less real-world contact a man has with boobies, and the more obsessed he will be with them.**
This dragon-lady example supports that hypothesis.
** It follows, then, that if you pay too much attention to a woman's boobies, you're basically putting a sign on your head that says "I have very little experience with women and I suck in bed." Something to remember when you feel like ogling, heh...
posted by LordSludge at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
This dragon-lady example supports that hypothesis.
** It follows, then, that if you pay too much attention to a woman's boobies, you're basically putting a sign on your head that says "I have very little experience with women and I suck in bed." Something to remember when you feel like ogling, heh...
posted by LordSludge at 10:03 AM on February 4, 2008 [1 favorite]
Y'know, back when I played D&D in high school, we didn't ask about boobs. The only questions we asked about other races encountered were:
1. How much gold is it carrying?
2. How much XP do I get for killing it?
On the other hand, we had aspirations towards actual dates with an actual female with actual, non-imaginary boobs. I suppose some of these guys invest too much time in the game and not enough time elsewhere.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:58 AM on February 4, 2008
1. How much gold is it carrying?
2. How much XP do I get for killing it?
On the other hand, we had aspirations towards actual dates with an actual female with actual, non-imaginary boobs. I suppose some of these guys invest too much time in the game and not enough time elsewhere.
posted by caution live frogs at 10:58 AM on February 4, 2008
The more pressing matter, I think you'll agree, is the presence or absence of cloaca.
posted by Sys Rq at 2:02 PM on February 4, 2008
posted by Sys Rq at 2:02 PM on February 4, 2008
Vaughn Bode. Lizards... tits... 'nuff said.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 2:02 PM on February 4, 2008
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 2:02 PM on February 4, 2008
This is connected to the Cute Monster Girl phenomenon, in which male Lizard People/Ant Men/Bee Humanoids (and, of course, Klingons) will always be terrifying hulking behemoths straight out of a '50s monster movie, but the females will always look like a human pole dancer wearing a Halloween Sexy Lizard/Ant/Bee costume.
posted by dansdata at 2:45 PM on February 4, 2008
posted by dansdata at 2:45 PM on February 4, 2008
@DansData: With your perspective on this, this dialog seems to be the first of many cases of that trend breaking down. Who knows, this apparently sexist thread could just be the thing that leads to fair portrayals of monsters and women in RPGs.
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:20 PM on February 4, 2008
posted by mccarty.tim at 8:20 PM on February 4, 2008
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will end well.will wendell.will Givewell.is completely Goddamn ridiculous.posted by danb at 8:57 PM on February 3, 2008 [8 favorites]