Comments on: But what about the platypi?

But what about the platypi?

ntk — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:46:48 -0800

It's hard to believe that, back before the Internet but after the first edition of Dungeons of Dragons, there was a time when we had no easy way to pool the world's knowledge of evolutionary biology, lizard genetics, Pern, and martians to answer that most pressing question: should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without?

By: danb

danb — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 20:57:59 -0800

Well, this ~~will end well.~~ ~~will wendell.~~ ~~will Givewell.~~ is completely Goddamn ridiculous.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:00:03 -0800

I see nothing wrong with humans drawing female dragons with large breasts, nor do I see anything wrong with dragons drawing female humans with seductively shaped tails and headcrests.

By: kuujjuarapik

kuujjuarapik — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:05:05 -0800

it's a tempest in a d-cup.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:05:26 -0800

Putting giant bosoms on a dragon-descended humanoid? What fresh furry hell is this?

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:07:30 -0800

What fresh ~~furry~~ scaly hell is this? Fixed that, etc.

By: vertigo25

vertigo25 — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:14:08 -0800

Fifteen pages... man, I love the obsessing of RPG geeks.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:21:21 -0800

awesome.

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:24:45 -0800

Kuujjuarapik wins the thread.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:29:46 -0800

should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say "with," Bob. With. Otherwise the masturbatory fantasies get too weird.

By: ntk

ntk — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:36:56 -0800

Before anybody writes in to complain, I should say that the Dragonborn are not descended from dragons -- they're a transformative race created by beings of other races who elect to undergo a ceremony that transforms them dragon-alikes. I've gone way too deep into this, haven't I?

By: seanmpuckett

seanmpuckett — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:38:38 -0800

Metafilter: Otherwise the masturbatory fantasies get too weird.

By: Avenger

Avenger — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:40:14 -0800

Attention furries: female dragons, lizards and avianoids(?) are not going to have massive, bouncy tits. I'd also be surprised that, if such creatures were to naturally evolve, that the males would also have huge, veiny, porn-star-esque dongers. But seriously. This is like arguing whether or not Yoda could defeat Superman in a 1-on-1 basketball game. I'm ashamed that I can even conceive of such a thing. Superman would rock the court. Totally.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:41:32 -0800

Can Yoda have his lightsaber?

By: louche mustachio

louche mustachio — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:47:49 -0800

Oh, Hell. The Dragonriders of Porn.

By: Crabby Appleton

Crabby Appleton — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 21:55:44 -0800

I always wondered why anyone would want to chase the dragon.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:09:21 -0800

Yoda. So Yoda.

By: L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg

L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:18:28 -0800

I think the official word for "having breasts in spite of otherwise being reptilian in appearance" should be "sleestacked."

By: mecran01

mecran01 — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:21:07 -0800

TTIWWP Oh wait, I thought I was at Fark... It's the convergence of all community blogs: FarkFilterDot

By: Serial Killer Slumber Party

Serial Killer Slumber Party — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:24:32 -0800

should male RPG fans draw female humanoids descended from dragons with ginormous racks, or without? The answer to both questions is 'no'.

By: dirtynumbangelboy

dirtynumbangelboy — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:26:06 -0800

tits or gtfo.

By: Dr. Curare

Dr. Curare — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:44:58 -0800

Penis goes where? asked the mermaid.

By: vrakatar

vrakatar — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 22:45:29 -0800

Yeah, that last link should have examples of attractive lizard women, you know, so we have a baseline for debate.

By: Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America

Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:02:24 -0800

Well, actual female humanoids descended from dragons sometimes have ginormous racks, and sometimes they don't. One can't go wrong drawing them either way. As an aside, female humanoids descended from dragons who are under-endowed will often elect to have breast-augmenting cosmetic surgery, because humanoid descended from dragon culture imposes an unrealistic standard of beauty on female humanoids descended from dragons. Now that I think about it, female humanoids descended from dragons aren't so different than us.

By: aeschenkarnos

aeschenkarnos — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:10:11 -0800

Seriously, just pick one, and justify it for yourself. (I mean pseudo-scientifically justify, not morally justify.) I've thought of at least two reasons to choose each option for the creature just now, and since I can't even be bothered posting them there, I'm not going to bother posting them here. However I do think it's worth making a meta-filter-ish comment on the debate: there are a proportion of RPG geeks (and the same goes for comic book geeks) who seem to have an overwhelming need to establish an objective canon. "Should" is not meaningful in this question. The zeroth rule of D&D is, the GM (and by extension, the players) can alter any other rule. This includes what classes and races the players can choose for characters, what they look like, what they behave like, etc. Same goes for gnomes and half-orcs: you are allowed to put them in your campaign. That they are no longer in the base book is not relevant unless your group wants it to be. It stuns me sometimes how much people, when given free reign to exercise their imaginations, will turn to each other and ask "what should I think?".

By: bonobo

bonobo — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:34:54 -0800

Erm, wait...this isn't the V fan club? As a person who embraces humor, biology, herpetology, forums, art, sci-fi, "What if?" discourse, fantasy, and general nerd-ery, I pray to the orb-what-warms-my-rock-so-that-I-can-digest-meals that this does not devolve into a net-acronym-laden series of exclamations about anatomy that eventually devolves into a(n) in-thread or MeTa free-for-all about sexism. The links in the original post highlight some OMG boyzone-isms that occur within the D&D realm. The explanations, science, and pseudo-science show me a slice of other people's lives. Fun stuff, that. Are female humanoid-dragonish beings susceptible to being bland-looking creatures like many other species of creatures? The onus is upon the male in many instances to distinguish himself by appearance.

By: Joseph Gurl

Joseph Gurl — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:36:57 -0800

This is so dumb. Somebody please tell these people that humanoids-descended-from-dragons don't even exist.

By: ODiV

ODiV — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 23:57:46 -0800

Back to the forum and its total jackpot of dumbassery; an evo-psych argument that humans have fatty bumps on their chests so that they will look like butts, because primates find butt cracks sexy, and since we walk upright and do it face to face sometimes, we like to be looking at some frontal butt-cleavage: "A quite popular theory among biologists is that the form of a woman's busom is meant to emulate that of her behind..." I've heard this all over the place too. Is this some sort of weird evolution-based urban legend?

By: mccarty.tim

mccarty.tim — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:09:22 -0800

The whole point is that it's imaginary. I say it's up to the individual. Really, I don't see how anything could logically evolve into a humanoid shape other than a mammal, so thinking of anything that's humanoid but not mammal pretty much ensures full artistic license. I think the reason these nerds are writing for 15 pages about it is because games like D&D are built up on rules, and the people who enjoy those games want rules to govern their fantasy of the game-world and thus better define it. Plus, there's the sexual element, which excites them as it's a taboo topic being discussed in a situation where it seems appropriate. However, to an outsider, it all looks very misogynistic, which it is.

By: sien

sien — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:16:19 -0800

Hey, these people have some hold on reality. At least no-one screamed Fuck you I'm a dragon.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:42:38 -0800

First I put on my robe and wizard hat.

By: Fimbaz

Fimbaz — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:24:46 -0800

I've had arguments like that-- anyone who loves fantasy has to write a dissertation on lizard tits, or worse, at some point. How else can we learn to hate such discussions? The cool water of escapism is so pleasant to us at first! Spend a thousand hours waist deep in another world, free and afloat, with your disbelief suspended, and you'll find you're sore tempted to plunge in your head. How is ore distributed in a dwarven mine? What magic keeps giants from caving in? Immerse yourself so far, and you'll find the water fast stings your eyes. There is some fun to be had that way, sure, but it's much better to keep your head out of it-- especially if you're going to sex it up. There's nothing to be gained by half-justifying a half-fetish. Lizard boobs, man!

By: russm

russm — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 01:54:25 -0800

give it time, sien... give it time...

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:34:57 -0800

OF COURSE hybrid humanoid-reptillian women had giant mammary glands! IF you Google MING THE MERCILESS, you'd realise our FEARLESS LEADER have some of them among HIS SIXTY WIVES.

By: whir

whir — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:38:22 -0800

ZOMG, it's ntk of the late lamented ntk.net! /fanboy

By: jfuller

jfuller — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:21:07 -0800

The FandomWank wiki needs to know about this one.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:26:26 -0800

Incidentally, I feel it is very important to point out that female dwarves do, indeed, have beards.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:58:10 -0800

Q: You like dragons? You are a person who likes the dragon acts that we are currently arguing abou?

By: maxwelton

maxwelton — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:58:34 -0800

The years-old mystery of finding my roommate's iguana in its cage with a pair of lemons taped to its abdomen has been solved. Unfortunately.

By: fearfulsymmetry

fearfulsymmetry — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:03:48 -0800

yeah but, do male lizardmen have two penises? In fact I seem to remember reading a review (By Dave Langford I seem to remember) of some mind-boggling bad sounding semi-porn fantasy novel where indeed that was the case, and noted that the female heroine (who no doubt wore a chain mail bikini) was able to get double the fun at the same time, as it were.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:55:37 -0800

And I have to go to Iraq, to rescue these hostages. And I get there and I rescue them, but they're all women and they're naked because their clothes have rotted off.

By: longbaugh

longbaugh — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 05:41:45 -0800

Why don't cat-chicks in this sort of thing have 4 pairs of breasts? And what would be wrong with that many? Don't you ever wish you met a girl who had that many? Think of all the news things you'd be able to try out.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 06:14:16 -0800

Bah, that site with the Patrick Stewart video went down. Pathetic. Here it is on Google video.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 06:20:33 -0800

First response in the thread: I disagree, it'd be rediculous And that's when I stopped reading.

By: exlotuseater

exlotuseater — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:09:44 -0800

I don't even know what to say. But this is interesting: . . . It all reminds me of the Very Small Epiphany I had lately as I stared at the mesmerizing buttcrack of an acquaintance of mine. For the generation just below mine, letting their butt crack fly free is just like wearing a low cut shirt to show some cleavage. I amused and horrified Minnie by explaining this and adding the prediction that within 5 years there will be a fashion of pants that go even lower and have lacy or transparent panels in the back to reveal even more subtly shadowed, alluring, sexy crack. She didn't believe me! Fine! But it did come true about how everyone in 10 years would be wearing hats with cat ears... I called that one too. There is money here.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:15:06 -0800

First I put on my robe and wizard hat. I take off my robe and DD wizard bra.

By: ersatz

ersatz — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 07:42:06 -0800

I fear something terrible has happened.

By: artifarce

artifarce — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:15:31 -0800

This amused me, what the first link called the lone voice of sanity: The next time we're all sitting around wondering why there aren't more girls in D&D, you can think back to this thread. This nine page long thread about boobs. Just putting some perspective on here.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:39:33 -0800

A small request to try to talk about these links in a way that is at least as respectful of actual women and less OMGBOOBIES as the discussion forum linked by ntk.

By: TheWhiteSkull

TheWhiteSkull — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:40:24 -0800

OF COURSE hybrid humanoid-reptillian women had giant mammary glands! IF you Google MING THE MERCILESS, you'd realise our FEARLESS LEADER have some of them among HIS SIXTY WIVES. Why is the mainstream media ignoring the success of MING THE MERCILESS in acquiring many lizard wives? Do your research!

By: LordSludge

LordSludge — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:03:56 -0800

Hypothesis: The more socially awkward a man is, the less successful he will be with women, and the less contact he is likely to have with actual boobies. The less real-world contact a man has with boobies, and the more obsessed he will be with them.** This dragon-lady example supports that hypothesis. ** It follows, then, that if you pay too much attention to a woman's boobies, you're basically putting a sign on your head that says "I have very little experience with women and I suck in bed." Something to remember when you feel like ogling, heh...

By: caution live frogs

caution live frogs — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 10:58:08 -0800

Y'know, back when I played D&D in high school, we didn't ask about boobs. The only questions we asked about other races encountered were: 1. How much gold is it carrying? 2. How much XP do I get for killing it? On the other hand, we had aspirations towards actual dates with an actual female with actual, non-imaginary boobs. I suppose some of these guys invest too much time in the game and not enough time elsewhere.

By: Sys Rq

Sys Rq — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:02:24 -0800

The more pressing matter, I think you'll agree, is the presence or absence of cloaca.

By: Guy_Inamonkeysuit

Guy_Inamonkeysuit — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:02:50 -0800

Vaughn Bode. Lizards... tits... 'nuff said.

By: dansdata

dansdata — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:45:12 -0800

This is connected to the Cute Monster Girl phenomenon, in which male Lizard People/Ant Men/Bee Humanoids (and, of course, Klingons) will always be terrifying hulking behemoths straight out of a '50s monster movie, but the females will always look like a human pole dancer wearing a Halloween Sexy Lizard/Ant/Bee costume.

By: mccarty.tim

mccarty.tim — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 20:20:49 -0800

@DansData: With your perspective on this, this dialog seems to be the first of many cases of that trend breaking down. Who knows, this apparently sexist thread could just be the thing that leads to fair portrayals of monsters and women in RPGs.