Comments on: Best of the web you bet!

Best of the web you bet!

Brian B. — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:05:02 -0800

Poker hand simulator. Get a feel for the odds before you bet the farm.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:08:00 -0800

That's fairly unexciting, given the clunkiness of the interface.

By: Brian B.

Brian B. — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:12:56 -0800

That's fairly unexciting, given the clunkiness of the interface. Indeed, but I was feeling depressed today. Oh, and don't forget that "10" is "T" instead. It is also open source, so an enterprising type can perhaps use it to make a new application.

By: mosk

mosk — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:24:14 -0800

I would also suggest PokerStove as an alternative poker odds calculator. There are a ton of these calculators out there, but to my knowledge, PokerStove is the more widely adopted software for this function. It is also free.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:35:55 -0800

mosk beat me to it. Pokerstove is the one that the serious poker analysts over on 2+2 use. Not sure if it does as many games as the link posted by Brian B though, I think Pokerstove may be limited to Hold'em. I'm surprised that we never got the Brandi Hawbaker story posted to the blue. I struggled and struggled over the idea of posting it, but I knew it would be flagged up the wazoo. Brandi vs. Captain Tom/Newhizzle/pimprexel/Sklansky was definitely the best of my web though. Someday I will fly!

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:38:45 -0800

You poke her hand. You brung her.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:39:09 -0800

I'm surprised that we never got the Brandi Hawbaker story posted to the blue. Well, I hadn't heard it. I haven't played poker since that stupid-ass new law, which blocked party poker and neteller :( Where do Americans play poker these days online?

By: ceiriog

ceiriog — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:39:54 -0800

Nice timing. I've just lost 3 SNGs on the run, on the bubble. I'm supposed to be the Third Best Poker Player in Llangrannog.

By: ceiriog

ceiriog — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:42:26 -0800

The odds calculator at Card Player has a nice interface.

By: reishus

reishus — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:43:51 -0800

Delmoi: Stars or Full Tilt.

By: Duncan

Duncan — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:50:43 -0800

I second the Card Player interface, it calculates Omaha stats. I am checking out Poker Stove.

By: basicchannel

basicchannel — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 11:57:34 -0800

Same thing as this.

By: basicchannel

basicchannel — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:03:26 -0800

Also, for reviewing past hands you should use this. For looking-up how good someone is at tournament play you should use this (doesn't work in Safari). Lastly, to analyze your play historically you should use this or this. Don't forget your Heads-Up Display, either (so's you can get a quantifiable look at someone's play style and bet accordingly). After messing with all these tools, you should join in the coversation over here.

By: Infinite Jest

Infinite Jest — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:22:08 -0800

basicchannel: your tournament play link goes to this thread.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:34:50 -0800

Well, I hadn't heard it. Brandi Hawbaker

By: ibmcginty

ibmcginty — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:59:09 -0800

Is there anything out there that shows the odds as you're playing a game? That kind of playing with training wheels seems more likely to stick in my head than reviewing 'em after the fact. Thanks for the post, Brian B., and for all the good links in this thread.

By: basicchannel

basicchannel — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:04:07 -0800

Oops. Here is the tournament player look-up.

By: StickyCarpet

StickyCarpet — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 13:27:06 -0800

It is also open source Royal straight flush, here I come!

By: Infinite Jest

Infinite Jest — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:43:36 -0800

Thanks basicchannel. No support for Absolute, I see: you don't happen to know a similar site that works with Absolute? (My Google-fu is failing me).

By: Infinite Jest

Infinite Jest — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 14:49:39 -0800

Scratch that, I found one: thepokerDB. It's accurate for my tournament stats, though seems to be missing my SnG stats.

By: mosch

mosch — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:06:13 -0800

PokerTracker. This program exists because nobody has bothered to write a better one. It's full of statistics that don't converge usefully until you have about a half-million+ hands. Unfortunately, that's the same point where it gets painfully slow. That said, at least it records your results for you, which is kind of nice, so long as you never played mixed games, or triple draw. PokerAce. This program overlays some numbers of your choosing onto the screen. It encourages players to stop paying attention or thinking, and instead to just look at some basic looseness and aggression factors and make default plays. I encourage everybody to tell their opponents to use this software, as it seems like it contributes to what I refer to as "2+2 style" play. This is when a player uses default reactions in nearly all cases lining up with what the masses of the 2+2 forums would say to do, even when a more careful analysis would show that the situation wasn't standard. Sharkscope. This website exists primarily so untalented jerks can taunt slightly worse players with their results. At higher limits it's used by railbirds to make fun of fish who have more money than they do. Honestly, if you can't tell if somebody is playing good or bad, you're bad at poker. As such, it's pretty much moot. PokerHand. This website is used as a concise way to show your friends that you are an expert player. Just paste the hand history, then gloat or cry to your friends as appropriate. 2+2. A website that used to host some really great, in-depth poker discussion. Today it is basically a place for life-free online pros to waste their days, arranging 10k fights, yo. The real discussions now happen elsewhere. Twodimes: The site everybody always uses to get odds. The site linked here is just another version of twodimes. Also, it's probably a self-link. Honestly though, if you learn how to count outs, read a few good books and play some hands, you should do fine.

By: mosch

mosch — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:11:13 -0800

SNG Power Tools: If you play a lot of SNGs (or play enough MTTs to need some serious final table strategy), this will help you figure out that you're not pushing all-in nearly often enough.

By: Brian B.

Brian B. — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 16:57:09 -0800

Twodimes: The site everybody always uses to get odds. The site linked here is just another version of twodimes. If they are the same, they are both from the same open source program. It's all explained on the site, perhaps in a dozen languages, and taking the effort to name its source. Also, it's probably a self-link. It's not a self-link, and now I know you are probably a lousy poker player, and a lazy researcher. The copyright notice lists TPMC media interests as owner, which a search reveals is owned by Terry Peng. I am not Terry Peng, nor do I know anyone named Peng, nor have I any connection to TPMC media interests.

By: BigSky

BigSky — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:04:29 -0800

This is best of the web? Poker hand simulators are an entire genre and this one isn't all that great. PokerStove is at least four years old and it's hard to beat. Poker Calculator is alright if you play something besides holdem. I think Eastbay stopped maintaining PowerTools over a year ago, but SnGs aren't my thing. Nice hand you posted there mosch. What was ROUNDERS76 thinking on the river? That guy is a 2+2 legend. Olé!

By: Brian B.

Brian B. — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 18:37:44 -0800

This is best of the web? Poker hand simulators are an entire genre and this one isn't all that great. PokerStove is at least four years old and it's hard to beat. Poker Calculator is alright if you play something besides holdem. Well, according to mosch, everyone uses it (albeit at twodimes). PokerStove seems fine too, but it's a download for hold'em only. PokerStove also recommends the same simulator used by pokertips and twodimes on their FAQ for those wanting the sourcecode to a simulator. Quote: Q10. Is source code for PokerStove available? No. If you are looking for source code, I would recommend going to the pokersource project at sourceforge.net. It is excellent code and runs the back end of the Twodimes.net poker page. The code is available under the GNU General Public Licensee (GPL). FYI, the pokertips link in the FPP comes up first when using the search term "simulator" and presents itself in many languages, and features richer content, more information, and offers forums about poker, and it also has a pot odds calculator.

By: mosch

mosch — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:27:08 -0800

It's not a self-link, and now I know you are probably a lousy poker player, and a lazy researcher. Uncalled for, and also hilarious. Though I'm down $12k today, so hey, maybe you're right!

By: mosch

mosch — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 19:34:34 -0800

I think Eastbay stopped maintaining PowerTools over a year ago, but SnGs aren't my thing. Ah, I didn't know he gave up on it, but I've never really wanted more features. I couldn't give a crap about SNGs really (I burned out on them after I played 1k $55+5s in a month back in 2003.) I still load up SNGPT now and then to analyze some MTT final table situations after the fact, though. After all, final tables are basically the only spot where it's possible for a good poker player to make a four+ digit mistake without realizing it.

By: mosch

mosch — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 20:38:54 -0800

Nice hand you posted there mosch. What was ROUNDERS76 thinking on the river? That guy is a 2+2 legend. Uhh... the money ran out on the turn ;-) I was actually trying to find one of the hands I played in the big, pre-ban, cryptologic PLO games but I gave up because I couldn't remember what my crypto screen names were. It was routine for players in that game to go any number of buyins pre-flop with dry aces, among a gazillion other bits of amazing. Man, now I'm sad. The high-limit games at crypto might well have been the best-kept secret of online poker. They made partypoker players seem cheap and cautious.

By: BigSky

BigSky — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 05:50:15 -0800

mosch, You are right, of course. Still, what was ROUNDERS76 thinking on the turn? He's playing El Diablo for Christ's sake. He might want something a little better than overpair before calling ElD's CR all-in. The man is a 2+2 legend! P.S. twoplustwo is a .com not .org. Heh heh. Also thanks for the 10k fight link. With the exception of the legislation forum, I stopped hanging out there after the Port Security Act. I recognized young hov's face (who could forget a kisser like that?), but I hadn't read the acceptance. Young 20 year olds rarely disappoint. P.P.S. I never played Crypto, but I remember Schneids making a similar comment a couple of years ago.

By: mosch

mosch — Sun, 17 Feb 2008 15:00:32 -0800

It's still financial suicide, you're right. I mean, El Diablo isn't going to CR AI with TPTK or something similarly dumb, so he's either winning, or he mis-clicked. And El Diablo is pretty good at clicking. As for Crypto, I didn't know Schneids made a similar comment, but *wow*, those games were amazing. When I first started playing there I put it to variance, but when you sustain an "unsustainable" winrate for 2 years, playing 1k+ hands/day... well.... eventually you assume that you found the best games on the internet :-) Honestly, it was almost like playing in a casino, the players were that bad and rich. It was funny, too. I'd routinely see players like Schneids, Diablo, Stoxtrader, etc. around, yet somehow the base of 2+2 never quite figured out that they were missing a feeding frenzy. Instead they'd bitch that the client software was ugly, and I'd smile.

By: NekulturnY

NekulturnY — Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:41:20 -0800

Good overview by mosch, but he forgot Holdem Manager, which is like PokerTracker and PokerAce HUD on steroids.