Comments on: Now that Kosovo has declared independence, will Abkhazia follow?

Now that Kosovo has declared independence, will Abkhazia follow?

gregb1007 — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:33:01 -0800

Now that Kosovo has declared independence, will Abkhazia follow? The Abkhazian "autonomy" within Georgia already has its own president and parliament, as well as an independent army that has managed to expel Georgian presence by 1993. They've even got their own flag. The only thing missing? Official recognition from the UN.

However, this insufficiency can be remedied. Reflecting on Kosovo's success in breaking free from Serbia, President Sergei Bapash pins his hopes on achieving a similar miracle in his own land. Declaring his intentions during a February 18th press conference held in Moscow, Bapash made it clear that he will turn to Russia and other former Soviet states for support in his quest to make Abkhazia officially independent.

By: adricv

adricv — Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:39:45 -0800

For all the wishful thinking rhetoric which proclaims that Kosovo is not a precedent, it is. Among the first few people to congratulate Kosovo was ETA, the Basque terrorist group (freedom fighters, anyone?). For the EU, Kosovo may be unique. For everyone else, it's a precedent.

By: Ljubljana

Ljubljana — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:03:08 -0800

This is pretty much why Russia was so opposed to Kosovo's independence in the first place -- nevermind all the nonsense about "traditional allies," helping their "little Slavic brothers" or any of that silly Marche Slave stuff. The eXile recently ran a piece arguing that Russia should, as revenge, start recognizing the Lakota Nation. The more interesting question, for me, is what will happen with Bosnia's Republika Srpska. They were protesting in Banja Luka yesterday -- mostly hooligan stuff: chanting, burning American flags, throwing rocks at police. But there's always the chance that things will heat up. Or spin out of control.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:36:35 -0800

Basque separatists, Corsican separatists, Iraqi and Turkish Kurds... The recognition of Kosovo is the final straw in the total failure of Bush administration's foreign policy. Encouraging nations to divide based on ethnic and/or religious lines is "cutting and running" from pluralistic, liberal democracy that the United States of America is supposed to stand for.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:43:32 -0800

I think they should reconsider the name, whatever they do. "Abkhazia" sounds like a disease.

By: jaduncan

jaduncan — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:46:58 -0800

Heh. Funnily enough, I talked to someone connected to the Georgian government who was extremely clear that they were annoyed over Kosovo..."the rules of international law we were given from the EU are a lie" was the phrase used. They are indeed extremely worried that the Autonomous Republics will go independent, and that the EU and US will not be able to criticise this to any great extent...and since Russia militarily backed the original uprising, they certainly won't be hard-pressed to pick a side.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:41:22 -0800

I think they should reconsider the name, whatever they do. "Abkhazia" sounds like a disease. Something along the lines of The Former Yoguslav Republic of Macedonia perhaps? This independence stuff is really tricky in detail.

By: Dizzy

Dizzy — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:15:35 -0800

Nonsense, flapjax! "Abkhazia" is the name of a Genesis album.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:19:58 -0800

"Abkhazia" is the name of a Genesis album. Oh, jeebus! That's even worse!

By: YouRebelScum

YouRebelScum — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:24:44 -0800

Although I don't know much about Kosovo, I don't see what's necessarily undemocratic or illiberal about secession, particularly if it's what the majority of the country want (unless there's a danger that there'll be rights abuses of the minority when separate government is obtained). I must say I see this as part-Scot part-Irish resident in the UK, who is considering strongly voting for the SNP.

By: Killick

Killick — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:38:25 -0800

This has got to stop. Either that, or we need a Metafilter ban on geography quizzes.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:42:23 -0800

I was kinda hoping that "Heritageland" would split off from the USA next.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:44:13 -0800

This is pretty much why Russia was so opposed to Kosovo's independence in the first place No, this is Russia's little demonstration of why Kosovo's independence is a Bad Thing. "Autonomous Abkhazia" is purely and simply a Russian creation, and if it declares independence it will be a Russian action to spite 1) its enemy Georgia (of which Abkhazia is a part) and 2) the international community that has taken the Kosovars' side over Russia's allies the Serbs. Important point: the Abkhaz historically made up about 18% of the population of Abkhazia, which was an autonomous region because of the Soviet divide-and-rule policy. There's a good even-handed analysis here; an excerpt:

The political leadership in Tbilisi did not see any reason why the Soviet hierarchical system should not be preserved and even enforced after the achievement of independence. The politically privileged position of the Abkhaz minority was unacceptable to them. The leaders of the Abkhaz national movement refused to acknowledge the authority of the Georgian political leadership in Tbilisi and before the dissolution of the USSR had already striven to upgrade Abkhazia's status from autonomous republic to union republic. After its dissolution they demanded equal status with Georgia in a loose federative framework. This form of withdrawal from the authority of the Georgian state would, in the view of the Georgians and of Abkhaz radicals, have paved the way for full secession and the establishment of an independent Abkhaz state.The conflict over political status reached its climax with the war of 1992–93 when Georgian troops, consisting mainly of paramilitaries, intervened in the political conflict between the two main nationalities of Abkhazia. They were driven out by Abkhaz troops supported by nationalist movements from the North Caucasus and by the Russian military. As a consequence of this victory the Abkhaz authorities attempted to consolidate their position by changing the demographic situation. The majority of the Georgian inhabitants of Abkhazia fled to Georgia and these internally displaced persons (IDPs) were not allowed to return. To date no solution has been found to the political and humanitarian dilemmas at the heart of the conflict.

Just keep that figure in mind: 18%. That's comparable to the Serbs in Kosovo, not the Albanian Kosovars.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 05:46:07 -0800

Oh, and that "changing the demographic situation" is what we call ethnic cleansing. It's as if the Serbs were driving the Albanians out of Kosovo so they could claim majority status.

By: IndigoJones

IndigoJones — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:28:23 -0800

It's as if the Serbs were driving the Albanians out of Kosovo so they could claim majority status. Tough job, if this is accurate (which is an if I, for one, am not going to touch).

By: foxy_hedgehog

foxy_hedgehog — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:31:59 -0800

languagehat has it exactly right. Some claims to independence, secession, and international recognition are more legitimate than others, and Russia's "Abkhazia Revenge" is not about principle. It's about undermining the Georgian state. There's a good analysis here.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:17:02 -0800

Best thing about Abkhazia -- their postage stamps. all hail. . .

By: tarvuz

tarvuz — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:21:49 -0800

Let me see. Kosovo has a majority of Albanians. Does Abkhazia have a majority of Russians? Funny how Russia is against Kosovo folks deciding their destiny but are happy to meddle in the affairs of Sakartvelo.

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 07:52:01 -0800

Russia's "Abkhazia Revenge" is not about principle. It's about undermining the Georgian state. But doesn't every independence movement undermine the state to some extent? At the very least, punative actions taken to squash independence movements are invariably justified as a defense of state integrity. I don't see what's necessarily undemocratic or illiberal about secession, Balkanisation should not be necessary where individual liberties are protected. When countries divide among ethnic or religious lines, it is a sign that democracy is not working. The problem is where does it end? What if the Serb majority in the Mitrovica region of northern Kosovo secede from the newly independent Kosovo and call on their kinsmen in Serbia to protect them? Will Kosovars have a right to defend the borders of their new state?

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:06:34 -0800

Funny how Russia is against Kosovo folks deciding their destiny but are happy to meddle in the affairs of Sakartvelo. Funny? Actually, I think it's called "revenge".

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:07:57 -0800

The problem is where does it end? What if the Serb majority in the Mitrovica region of northern Kosovo secede from the newly independent Kosovo and call on their kinsmen in Serbia to protect them? Will Kosovars have a right to defend the borders of their new state? The situation seems strangely familiar, doesn't it?

By: gnosys

gnosys — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:24:01 -0800

I just hope they don't let security lapse at the wizard's prison in all the confusion.

By: electroboy

electroboy — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:50:30 -0800

Call me old fashioned, but I don't think a Harry Potter book should get to be an independent country, no matter how popular it is.

By: Mike D

Mike D — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:22:41 -0800

Best thing about Abkhazia -- their postage stamps.Great... for the rest of the afternoon: "And while Lennon read a book on Marx the quartet practised in the park and we sang dirges in the dark, The day the music died." Ah well... there are worse earworms.

By: greytape

greytape — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:25:21 -0800

I liked it when we still believed in international law. Anyone else up for giving that a go again?

By: Herodios

Herodios — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:02:02 -0800

Lennon read a book on Marx. . . I was thinking more Firesign Theatre than Don McLean.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:04:34 -0800

. . . contemporaneous though they may be.

By: gc

gc — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 12:36:36 -0800

OH! Lennon and Marx! Took me a bit, there. Cute.

By: Herodios

Herodios — Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:27:33 -0800

The stamps, apparently issued soon after Abkhazia declared independence, may not be quite what they appear. The Universal Postal Union does not recognize them as valid for postage. As such they are apparently referred to by philatelists as cinderellas. They do show up on ebay and such from time to time. Does this count as a derail? Sorry. I'm just glad someone in Abkha-land at some point had a sense of humour about self-determination.