Comments on: A New Age of Sail?

A New Age of Sail?

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 15:55:33 -0800

Some time this month, French wine will once again be transported by sail. As the Guardian reports today, French vineyards concerned about climate change are about to make life much easier for oenophiles wishing to reduce their carbon footprint. Later this month, the Belem, a 19th century barque will sail from Languedoc to Dublin with 60,000 bottles of Bordeaux.

In other cargo-sail news, DHL and SkySails recently announced the first commercial shipment to use a towing kite to reduce carbon emissions. Pictures of the MS Beluga Skysails underway can be found here. Shipping cargo by sail and SkySails previously on AskMe and on the Blue.

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:03:41 -0800

French vineyards concerned about ~~climate change~~ losing market share to high quality Australian and American wines are seeking to differentiate themselves through novelty. Fixed that for you.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:05:06 -0800

...the Belem, a 19th century barque will sail from Languedoc to Dublin with 60,000 bottles of Bordeaux. Aaaaarrr! And me and me men'll be ready t'meet 'er on the high seas, of that ye can be sure!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:10:57 -0800

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:16:24 -0800

I actually hate drinking wine (unless it's of the flavored fortified variety) but it's incredibly fun to say 'win' in an exaggerated French accent. Wiiiiine!

By: Keith Talent

Keith Talent — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:17:04 -0800

French vineyards concerned about ~~climate change~~ losing market share to high quality ~~Australian and American~~ Spanish wines are seeking to differentiate themselves through novelty. Fixed that for you.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:17:43 -0800

...use the phase change decompression... I dunno, delmoi, last time I tried that on one of my drum tracks the cymbals disappeared and the toms sounded like handclaps. Oh, and the kick drum blew my woofers all the way to Okinawa. So, yeah, actually, it might work!

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:24:00 -0800

In other news, American and Australian wine drinkers concerned about their carbon footprint decide to drink more American and Australian wines, respectively.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:24:34 -0800

French vineyards concerned about climate change are about to make life much easier for ~~oenophiles~~ onanists wishing to reduce their carbon footprint.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:26:39 -0800

In other news, Australian wine drinkers concerned about reds that don't resemble watered-down cordial drink more Australian wines.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:34:04 -0800

In other news, Mefites would rather whore for favorites with formulaic snark than risk exposing their frail egos to the Blue by contributing anything of substance. myself included, of course

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:40:10 -0800

you say that like there's something wrong with it.

By: barnacles

barnacles — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:43:03 -0800

In other news, the barque Belem is pretty cool looking.

By: Deconstruct Now!

Deconstruct Now! — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:48:17 -0800

I remember listening to an ABC podcast about the last sailing freight ships. They went from Norway to Adelaide through to the 1940s - they were called Windjammers. A great story..

By: humannaire

humannaire — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:58:01 -0800

Ahead of the curve: I work here and do this. And in other other news? Here in taste-making Key West, the wines of American, Australian, and Spanish have made room for amazing bottles from Argentina and Chile.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 16:59:37 -0800

Wouldn't hydrogen powered ships be pretty practical? I mean throw in some space-shuttle fuel (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) and use the phase change decompression along with the combustion to power the ship as the liquids evaporate on the journey. Hydrogen is not a net-carbon-neutral fuel - it has produced somehow, and the production process takes plenty of energy, usually coming from a coal-fired power plant.

By: Deconstruct Now!

Deconstruct Now! — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:03:25 -0800

Here's the actual Windjammers show. It seems the venerable ABC spoke too soon about never seeing ships powered by wind alone again. I hope they send one of these merchant ships out this way; it would make compelling news to have these fine vessels in our waters again.

By: furtive

furtive — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:11:04 -0800

I actually hate drinking wine (unless it's of the flavored fortified variety) but it's incredibly fun to say 'win' in an exaggerated French accent. Wiiiiine! It's more like "vain" but cutting the "n" short.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:16:36 -0800

I've always loved the story of the fastest ship ever to carry cargo under sail, the Thermopylae. It made history on it's maiden voyage, making Melbourne from London in 61 days, a record that still stands for any ship under sail. When steamships replaced sail in the tea trade, it was sold to a Canadian, who cut its rig down to a barque, and employed it on the lumber and rice trade, sailing between Rangoon and Vancouver. Even then, with less sail than it was built for and weighed down with timber, it set a new record for crossing the pacific under steam or sail, making Hong Kong from Victoria, BC in 23 days. It was later sold to the Portuguese Navy as a training ship, then a coal barge. Finally, in 1906, it was used as target practice and sunk.

By: Joakim Ziegler

Joakim Ziegler — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:21:31 -0800

Well, I don't think there are going to be ships powered by wind alone again, honestly, but there might be sailing ships that use wind as their primary mode of long-distance propulsion. Motors are just very practical for maneuvering in port, etc. What would be very cool would be a new generation of ultra-efficient sail-based freighters, highly automated and with a small crew, possibly with all onboard systems running on solar (or optionally charged from turbines that effectively brake the ship a bit). Is there any R&D being done into this sort of thing? I imagine modern technology applied to sail would make for something a lot faster and more efficient than old sail ships, beautiful as they are.

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:28:51 -0800

would French wine make an acceptable bio fuel? It's got the taste, surely just lacks proper marketing.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:37:45 -0800

Proper marketing? How about "now with added anti-freeze"?

By: Snyder

Snyder — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:41:14 -0800

All I ask for is a tall *hic* glass and a star to steer her by... Seriously though, tall ships are cool, and even a gimmick, this is cool. Would love to go underway with her.

By: suckerpunch

suckerpunch — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:48:35 -0800

would French wine make an acceptable bio fuel? Actually, due to massive overproduction and slackening demand, a great amount of European wine gets distilled into ethanol and used in part as fuel. Depend on your point of view, either it's a great idea to put wine in your gas tank, or its a crime to not use wine to get tanked.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:57:19 -0800

It's more like "vain" but cutting the "n" short. You're so vin, you probably think this thread is about you...

By: Zinger

Zinger — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:00:44 -0800

Does this mean the Belem is the new terroir of the high seas? Or, since this is lovely soft French wine, that the barque will be worse than the bite? I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:14:18 -0800

Dear France, Please pack your sailing ships with that delicious Sancerre, what space remains please pack with something from Alsace. I support any kind of sailing ship at all, let alone one filled with some good plonk.

By: Reverend John

Reverend John — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:20:58 -0800

Finally, in 1906, it was used as target practice and sunk. posted by [expletive deleted] eponysterical I could go on, but y'all probably start throwin' things. posted by Zinger and again

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:29:52 -0800

DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk. Don't swaet it.

By: wallstreet1929

wallstreet1929 — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:31:16 -0800

Well, IF the sails don't work (and no one's watching...): Propulsion and equipment * Driven by 2 diesel motors: Fiat-Iveco, 300 HP each (installed at the beginning of the '70 by the Cantieri Navali e Officine Meccaniche of Venice), 1500 rpm at full throttle. * Reducer-inverters : Masson 1/6. * 2 propeller shafts, 2 four-blade propellers. * 3 generators. * Diesel storage : 40 tons.

By: solipsophistocracy

solipsophistocracy — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 18:46:02 -0800

Jimbob, I'd have to disagree with you. Even with the cost of trans-Atlantic transport, one can get reasonably priced French wines that are a much better value than Californian wines here on the East Coast. American wine seems to be more expensive than most European wines if you compare vintages of similar quality. Australian wine prices are on the climb as well, but the price of French wine seems relatively stable.

By: not_on_display

not_on_display — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:00:26 -0800

What kind of wine goes with MetaFilter? "Get off the computer and come to bed already!" No... wine, not whine.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:04:44 -0800

DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk. Don't swaet it. Jon, I got you all the way to the wall babes, but you don't need to include me in your weird absolutist campaigns, there's room for all kinds of tastes in the world.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:16:04 -0800

...weird absolutist campaigns... Wait, we're talking about vodka now? I'm confused.

By: cali

cali — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:22:17 -0800

San Francisco to New York is about 2,500 miles over land, Paris to New York is about 3,500 over sea. Neither is what you'd call local wines. For that you'd need to be drinking some Finger Lakes and Long Island wines, some of which get some nice reviews.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:45:03 -0800

DW, my man, a six pack of Bud will get you just as drunk (but without the enjoyment)

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:55:07 -0800

drunk is drunk, dude.

By: fellorwaspushed

fellorwaspushed — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 19:57:24 -0800

/pedantic/ The ship sets sail from Bordeaux, but the wine itself is from Languedoc Frederic Albert, founder of the shipping company Compagnie de Transport Maritime à la Voile (CTMV), said: 'My idea was to do something for the planet and something for the wines of Languedoc..."

By: Zinger

Zinger — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:01:48 -0800

i 'm con fus ed! Absolut Metafilter

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:03:29 -0800

drunk is drunk, dude. Yup, drunk is drunk and still you your absolutism is super boring and not befitting the actual quality of your intellect. Oh well.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:08:24 -0800

what absolutism? If I liked wine, I'm sure Sancerre tastes great and I was mainly going for laughs. But yeah at the end of the day, whether you're drinking fine cognac or sterno through a rag, you're still getting loaded.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:14:19 -0800

Jon, would you rather have a glass of Cognac or suck some fucking sterno through a rag and pass out behind a gas station? You can't see the difference? I love you babes, don't mind me.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:15:55 -0800

Thanks for the catch fellorwaspushed, I got that switched around in my head. It doesn't really make any sense to ship Bordeaux wine to Ireland via the Mediterranean.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:23:08 -0800

Jon, would you rather have a glass of Cognac or suck some fucking sterno through a rag and pass out behind a gas station? You can't see the difference? Putting aside the obvious hyperbole of the Sterno, is there a difference between say, Courvosier and Colt .45? Sure, but if you don't have one I'll take the other and they'll both do the same job.

By: brain_drain

brain_drain — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:33:10 -0800

Divine_Wino: "Dear France, Please pack your sailing ships with that delicious Sancerre, what space remains please pack with something from Alsace. I support any kind of sailing ship at all, let alone one filled with some good plonk." Eponys--oh fuck it all, does anyone really care?

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:47:57 -0800

Ok Jon, fine.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 20:54:03 -0800

Wino, you know me better than anybody else here, so you know what I'm getting at. That once you strip away all the bullshit, it's just booze. I'm too old and too tired to pretend otherwise anymore. I only talk about it to amuse myself and maybe find partners in fatalism.

By: TheOnlyCoolTim

TheOnlyCoolTim — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:02:02 -0800

Some of it is tastier booze than the rest. Also, good beer -> less hangover.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:23:25 -0800

Withnail: I must have some booze. I demand to have some booze! [He lunges towards the mantlepiece where there is a bottle of lighter fluid.] I [standing up]: I wouldn't drink that if I were you. Withnail: Why not? I: Because I don't advise it. Even the wankers on the site wouldn't drink that. That's worse than meths. Withnail: Nonsense, this is a far superior drink to meths. The wankers don't drink it because they can't afford it. [He pours the contents of the bottle into his upturned mouth.] Withnail: Ah. Ah. Have you got anymore? [I shakes his head. Withnail presses forwards and I backs off.] Withnail: Liar, what's in your toolbox? I: No we have nothing. Sit down! Withnail: Liar, you've got antifreeze. I: You bloody fool. You should never mix your drinks! [Withnail laughs hysterically, collapses to the floor and emits unpleasant vomitting noises.]

By: ericb

ericb — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:26:31 -0800

FWIW -- MeFi threads evolve best with an unfolding series of comments that start with: "fixed that for you (FTFY);" "in other news," and "for what it's worth" (FWIW). Especially when alcohol is involved.

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:33:32 -0800

I feel like a pig shat in my head.

By: Kadin2048

Kadin2048 — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:35:50 -0800

wallstreet1929: Well, IF the sails don't work (and no one's watching...) I'm a little suspicious of that as well. Someone ought to see how much fuel they top off the tanks with every time they put into port; they have more than enough, if Wikipedia's numbers are accurate, to not sail at all. I guess even if it's clearly a PR stunt, it's still neat (hopefully funding the ship's upkeep somewhat) and might get other companies thinking in the right direction. However I think the environmental edge might go to TESCO for their use of barge canals in the English Midlands for their retro-tech enviro-publicity stunt. Barge shipping is almost ridiculously fuel-efficient compared to trucks; massive container ships are actually fairly fuel-efficient parts of the supply chain.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:48:10 -0800

I feel like a pig shat in my head. Hmm... have you been drinking Sterno through a rag? No? Just fine Cognac, you say? Oh well, I guess it is all the same after all...

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 21:51:32 -0800

FWIW -- MeFi threads evolve best ~~with an unfolding series of comments that start with: "fixed that for you (FTFY);" "in other news," and "for what it's worth" (FWIW). Especially~~ when alcohol is involved -- FTFY.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 22:02:42 -0800

I feel like a pig shat in my head. Compared with this, I'd think brain-pigshit was a birthday present.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:14:57 -0800

Metafilter: We want the finest whines available to humanity, and we want them now!

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:16:06 -0800

We will sell no whine before its time.

By: Shakeer

Shakeer — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 23:29:44 -0800

English people can't grow wine Australia and America.

By: tiny crocodile

tiny crocodile — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:18:59 -0800

I'm just happy it's coming to Dublin. Dylan Moran and Bill Bailey on the subject - It's like looking into the eye of a duck.

By: Naberius

Naberius — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 01:34:20 -0800

Tiny, tiny bottles of wine not included...

By: Elmore

Elmore — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 02:43:40 -0800

That's how we get our cocaine so it makes sense that we get our wine the same way.

By: Malor

Malor — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 03:07:52 -0800

delmoi: "Wouldn't hydrogen powered ships be pretty practical? I mean throw in some space-shuttle fuel (liquid hydrogen and oxygen) and use the phase change decompression along with the combustion to power the ship as the liquids evaporate on the journey. Would that be practical?" No, not really. You wouldn't need to bring oxygen, just the hydrogen -- plenty of oxygen in the air -- but it has several problems. The first is that separating and storing the hydrogen is very energy-intensive, which as someone up there said, may be coming from a coal plant. (in France, it would probably come from nuclear power, which is clean.) Second, it's very explosive, which is a really bad idea in a thin-skinned craft, floating thousands of miles from help. Finally, hydrogen isn't very energy-dense, so a huge fraction of the ship's total cargo space would be used by the hydrogen tanks. Given that option, I suspect most captains would be happier just to stick with wind power... it'd be slower and less reliable, but you could use almost all of your ship for cargo. jonmc: "But yeah at the end of the day, whether you're drinking fine cognac or sterno through a rag, you're still getting loaded." Heh, well, not all of us drink to get drunk. If you're only gonna have a couple, as opposed to getting shitfaced, why not have something good?

By: Djinh

Djinh — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:09:49 -0800

Nuclear is only clean if you assume that the fuel rods grow on trees near the power plant. They don't, and making them involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:30:38 -0800

Wow, I never thought the Sideways remake starring jonmc and Divine_Wino would be this good.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:52:07 -0800

MetaFilter: involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere.

By: sebastienbailard

sebastienbailard — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 04:59:23 -0800

Djinh, can you link to a decent analysis that runs the numbers on the C02 footprint of nuclear?

By: Malor

Malor — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:21:55 -0800

Djinh: "They don't, and making them involves releasing rather huge amounts of CO2 and other crap into the atmosphere." From what I know, it would be more accurate to say that mining uranium and refining it into fuel rods requires expenditure of energy; our present energy generation methods release a lot of carbon. Were the existing infrastructure nuclear, transmitted by hydrogen, mining and refining new uranium would most likely have a minimal carbon impact.

By: mosch

mosch — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:30:36 -0800

Those tow-kites are pretty damned cool (and smart!) Seems like a relatively inexpensive way to cut fuel costs without adding anything that would be difficult to service, or problematic down the road. Sweet!

By: mosch

mosch — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:34:37 -0800

Heh, well, not all of us drink to get drunk. If you're only gonna have a couple, as opposed to getting shitfaced, why not have something good? Macallan 25 makes an incredibly interesting and delicious first drink. The 18 makes a quite enjoyable second. The 12, a perfectly functional third.

By: GeckoDundee

GeckoDundee — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 06:54:27 -0800

It's marketing, but if others get on the bandwagon then it could become a good thing. We all have to start thinking about where the stuff we eat and drink come from and how they get to us. Jon, I really value what you have to say about beer and other booze. If I thought you had some class war bullshit going, I'd have to look at that afresh. I think I know when to tell when you're giving us the good oil, but this thread might give some people the wrong idea about your reliability as a food and drink critic. For my money your gastronomic advice is just as good as your music writing, but now I'm wondering if you favour some food because of its blue collar status rather than the actual taste. Please tell me I'm wrong.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 07:15:12 -0800

No. I'll eat and drink high-end stuff when I have the money or I'm in the mood. But I enjoy drinking Bud and eating potato chips, too. And I really don't like wine. I wish I did, since it'd be another way to get drunk, but I don't. One time I was in a bar and the woman next to me was drinking a glass of red wine and the smell got to me so much that I actually gagged. To tell the truth, I was just goofing around, not sure why anybody got upset. Especially my friend Wino, who knows better than anyone when I'm just fucking around.

By: breezeway

breezeway — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 09:11:00 -0800

Red wine makes me woozy but verbal; white makes me acid and thirsty, unless it's German, in which case I drink it like it was the blood of my ancestors and get appropriately gemutlich and bellicose; champagne makes me feel pretty, which is a great danger to others; ripple makes my feelings disappear, which is a great danger to myself. Among beers, I have a great capacity for Guinness, though I'm likely to doze on the train home; high-sugar beers make my head slide around on my neck, while thick porters and stouts fill me up and send me home to gas out before the night is yet young; ricey beers like Bud ruin my evening with allergic reaction (same goes for sake and shochu); I get pretty loaded on most beer: stagger four steps and stop, stand tall, breathe, hiccup, stop, stagger, go! Rum is for kids and vacations; vodka's my fare to oblivion; sipping brown liquors generally make me feel stately, unless I'm with some fool who thinks shots are the answer, in which case cognay will black me out into violence and terror, whisky will fill the back of a cab with my puke, but Jack Daniel's will have me on a tightrope above Times Square wrestling mountain lions and inventing bawdy lyrics to Stephen Foster hits. Liqueurs and schnapps are just a bad idea: instant blackout and a dangerous tendency to want to dance on chairs. I find brown liquor doesn't mix well with pot. Beer is better, and wine the best. A little coffee, then a little verde, then a couple glasses of wine, and I'm ready for the bath or the birthday party alike. The differences are subtle, but they mean the world to me. Most alcohol makes me feel bad the next day, and I can say that most hangovers feel the same, but the drunk tastes as different as the drink. When I was a kid, I had blue curtains and a matching bedspread decorated with nautical pictures and terms: ropes tied in sheet bends and bowlines, Robert Fulton's Clermont, the Constitution (being from Baltimore, I always wished it was the Constellation, or maybe the Chesapeake or the Torsk), and the Thermopylae. I read everything I could about her, and was obsessed with her record-setting voyages for at least a few months of my nonage. I knew Thermopylae was a ship long before I knew she was a battle, too.

By: mygothlaundry

mygothlaundry — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:04:20 -0800

There's an interesting article in the current (okay, current for North Carolina) New Yorker about carbon footprints. It turns out that even if a conventional ship was bringing French wine to New York, it would be using less carbon than trucks: Sea-freight emissions are less than a sixtieth of those associated with airplanes, and you don't have to build highways to berth a ship. Last year, a study of the carbon cost of the global wine trade found that it is actually more "green" for New Yorkers to drink wine from Bordeaux, which is shipped by sea, than wine from California, sent by truck. That is largely because shipping wine is mostly shipping glass. The study found that "the efficiencies of shipping drive a 'green line' all the way to Columbus, Ohio, the point where a wine from Bordeaux and Napa has the same carbon intensity." So go ahead and down the French plonk with a clear conscience. Also, sailing ships = awesome. The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and, of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor.

By: [expletive deleted]

[expletive deleted] — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:26:55 -0800

This has to be the most fun thread of any of my FPPs. I'm going to have to post more boozy things on the blue. Divine_Wino and jonmc, you two are definitely invited to the next party. I'll bring Roquefort and Lays, and you two can bring Chateau Cheval Blanc and sterno respectively.

By: cecilkorik

cecilkorik — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:55:47 -0800

Djinh: It's only "huge" when you're not looking at it from a worldwide energy generation point of view. The amount of coal that has to be mined and the amount of CO2 not just from the mining but also from the burning is absolutely staggering in comparison. Even if we were 100% nuclear the CO2 would be relatively tiny. Sure it's a concern, and nuclear's not at all perfect, but let's keep things in perspective.

By: jfuller

jfuller — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 10:56:11 -0800

> Aaaaarrr! And me and me men'll be ready t'meet 'er on the high seas, of that ye can be sure! Bets on how much of the swag makes it back to port? (dibs on "none") > The more stuff we ship via sail, the better - not just ecologically but OMG aesthetically and, > of course, for the sheer, pure coolness factor. N.b., this includes shipping east-coasters west over flyover country (and vice versa) by prairie schooner. Only takes five or so months and they get to know the back ends of their draft critters really well. New perspectives!

By: Divine_Wino

Divine_Wino — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 12:09:09 -0800

It turns out that the Oscar's bring out the argumentative Bastard in me. If I was on the hooch at the moment I'd raise a glass of Listerine and Laphroaig to my auld pal jon.

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:26:51 -0800

Bets on how much of the swag makes it back to port? (dibs on "none") Yeah, you'd be three sheets to the wind in no time.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:48:44 -0800

Ubu, ye land lubber ye! Why, me and me men could put away all 60,000 a'those bottles a'fancy French grog and still be standin' to take on any bilge rats foolish enough to cross our path! Arrr!

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:54:48 -0800

Hm, you could be right: The famous mariner's beverage, grog (a blend of sugar-water, lime juice and rum), was carried by both navymen and sailors to prevent scurvy. Navy men received grog as their daily rum ration, while pirates drank it as they pleased. Aboard a pirate vessel there was no specific time set aside for hooching; they drank whenever the urge took hold.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:25:42 -0800

Well a'course I'm right, lubber! And you can bet your mainsail we damn sure drink as we please! Arrrr!

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:28:30 -0800

And I'm a'feelin' the urge take hold right about now! Me'n me brother jonmc'll be downin' plenty a'sterno tonight, to be sure!

By: UbuRoivas

UbuRoivas — Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:35:09 -0800

You can have the mainsail if you like. Just keep your hands off these, or you'll have the hero of Trafalgar to answer to!

By: electroboy

electroboy — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:26:55 -0800

How exciting! I'm always looking for new and different ways to pay more for luxury goods.

By: lemuel

lemuel — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:19:50 -0800

at the risk of de-railing this wine soaked thred, there are many experiments going on with wind-powered ships. i'll site some examples when i finish this Merlot.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 27 Feb 2008 04:49:38 -0800

Hey lemuel, pour me a glass of that, would ya?