I See Dead People's Books

March 14, 2008 8:46 AM

I See Dead People's Books (wiki) is an impromptu project by LibraryThing members to catalog the libraries of famous dead people, from Tupac Shakur to Ernest Hemingway to John Adams. Many more in the works, anyone is able to create a dead library with all the attendant features of LT.
posted by stbalbach (22 comments total)

Great project.

This, however, is a bit much: "Tupac helped to combat the anti-intellectualism in rap, a force, to be sure, that pervades the entire culture".
posted by creasy boy at 9:20 AM on March 14, 2008

This looks interesting. Looking through the Hemingway entry, I don't see any citations or indication where people are getting their info from. If it is supposed to work like wikipedia and they're counting on users to point out inaccurate info, I don't see how you can prove someone did not own a book. Anyone interested in Hemingway's reading habits, check out Hemingway's Reading, 1910-1940: An Inventory by Michael S. Reynolds (it has citations!).
posted by marxchivist at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2008

While I love looking at other people's libraries, what I'd be more interested in is knowing which books in those libraries the person has actually read.

My wife and I have a nice little library going on (mainly fiction though). However, I can state with confidence that we've probably only read about 70% of the material that we own. At one point in my life, I could proudly say that every book I owned I had read, but that's definitely no longer the case :-(
posted by C.Batt at 10:09 AM on March 14, 2008

LT also just introduced LibraryThing Local earlier this month.
posted by steef at 10:26 AM on March 14, 2008

While I love looking at other people's libraries, what I'd be more interested in is knowing which books in those libraries the person has actually read.

I don't know when they added that particular feature, since I definitely don't remember it when I signed up, but there is now a 'status' that you can assign to books (as opposed to 'works', so each user sets their own). Right now, I only see 'currently reading' and 'to read', but it probably wouldn't be a stretch to say that it might be expanded. Of course, it'll be somewhat difficult to get the list from, say, Hemingway, but the feature is there. I suppose for some of the libraries, some hardworking soul could pore through letters and whatnot to find out what was actually read, rather than just owned.
posted by Cassilda at 10:39 AM on March 14, 2008

The wiki instructions say "After you've chosen an individual's library to catalog, you must find the list of books to be worked from. This could be a published bibliography (i.e. Thomas Jefferson), a library OPAC list (i.e Susan B. Anthony), or some combination of the two." This would seem to imply that you're not supposed to just add stuff you're really sure Famous Author must have read, but as we all know people don't follow guidelines. I'd be more comfortable if this were limited to a vetted group of contributors. But it's a great idea, and the practical advantages of having easy access to the libraries is probably worth a slight uncertainty as to complete accuracy.
posted by languagehat at 11:13 AM on March 14, 2008

Art Garfunkel sure is saving these folks a lot of work down the road.
posted by newmoistness at 11:36 AM on March 14, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

what I'd be more interested in is knowing which books in those libraries the person has actually read.

I add the tag readyyyy (read2008, read2007) whenever I finish a book. In theory I'll be able to go back and see what I read in the past year, and other people can see that I sometimes read books.
posted by drezdn at 12:00 PM on March 14, 2008

Tupac helped to combat the anti-intellectualism in rap, a force, to be sure, that pervades the entire culture

Maybe on his earlier stuff like "Keep Your Head Up" and "Brenda's Got A Baby", yeah, but once he hooked up with Suge he did more to forward the anti-intellectualism (and misogyny) than combat it, outside of a few gems like "Wonder Why They Call U Bitch", "Rather Be Ya NIGGA", etc. In his defense, though, he admitted that All Eyez On Me was more or less a sellout, wasn't proud of it, and when asked about it he would usually say something like "yeah, that was for Suge, but check out my new shit".

Anyway, I have trouble believing he's really even dead when he puts out more records than many living rappers. Although if he weren't dead, I would hope he would at least exercise some quality control. Some of that shit, like the stuff with Eminem, sucks hardcore while some of it is awesome ("Thug's Mansion").
posted by DecemberBoy at 2:28 PM on March 14, 2008

Excellent. I love to look through the libraries of others.

newmoistness: Though I dislike the man, I love his taste in reading.

DecemberBoy: Where did you get the sell-out comment from? Not doubting you, just interested as a fan of Tupac's earlier work.
posted by willie11 at 2:40 PM on March 14, 2008

Interesting stuff.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:46 PM on March 14, 2008

I'd be more comfortable if this were limited to a vetted group of contributors.

The project is being headed by user jbd1 and each dead library has a corresponding message group for discussions. It's still small enough that one person can manage it all (make sure stuff is accurate), it's not like a Wikipedia free for all. If your sources are bogus jbd1 will know. He is getting a masters in lib science and works for the MA Historical Society (and writes pretty good reviews).
posted by stbalbach at 3:27 PM on March 14, 2008

Where did you get the sell-out comment from? Not doubting you, just interested as a fan of Tupac's earlier work.

I don't think he's on record saying it himself, but I've read a number of interviews with people talking about him after his death who said he wasn't proud of All Eyez On Me at all and referred to it as "for Suge" and was far more into his subsequent stuff. I'll see if I can find one.
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:49 PM on March 14, 2008

Here's a quote from the Wiki page for Don Killuminati:

In the studio, we were working. We talked about music, and he was so excited to play you his new shit, I'd try to tell what I liked about All Eyez on Me and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, I did that for Suge. Listen to this..." and he put Makaveli on

It was apparently taken from a book named "Tupac: A Thug Life".
posted by DecemberBoy at 3:54 PM on March 14, 2008

I love LibraryThing approximately one thousand times more than Goodreads. It's sad that LT hasn't quite gone mainstream yet (though it seems to be getting there). Someone should really tell Art Garfunkel about it.
posted by roll truck roll at 3:58 PM on March 14, 2008

So I wonder what Tupac was reading on the night he committed the gang rape? My money is either on Thomas a Kempis, 'The Imitation of Christ' or Maya Angelou, 'I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings'
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:11 PM on March 14, 2008

PeterMcDermott: Tupac was the only person charged for the "gang rape" as I remember it.

Judging from your judgemental tone, I'm sure that you don't watch Woody Allen or Roman Polanski movies. Or listen to Jerry Lee Lewis, Michael Jackson, or R. Kelly records. I could go on forever if we go further back in time and include all the artists who married 13 year-old brides or were abusive drunks or killed or maimed.

But I much prefer to separate the art from the artist. If I didn't, my record/art/movie/book collections wouldn't be very good.
posted by willie11 at 10:48 AM on March 15, 2008 [2 favorites has favorites]

there's a feature in the edit portion that lets you date when you've "finished" a book. it's rather far down the page.

and damn you for exposing me to this. i've spent all day putting in the "read" portion of my library. starting around ten years ago i've kept a list of every book i read. but now i get to fulfill the fetish of being able to look the list over with *pictures* of the covers. this is feeding into way too much of my self-obsession. and all in the name of giving the government an easy way to find out exactly what's going on in my head.

*shakes fist at generic government spook*
posted by RedEmma at 5:32 PM on March 15, 2008

Tupac was the only person charged for the "gang rape" as I remember it.

What happened on the night of the alleged rape?

We had a show to do in New Jersey at Club 88. This dude said, "I'll be there with a limo to pick you up at midnight." We went shopping, we got dressed up, we were all ready. Nigel was saying, "Why don't you give her a call?" So we were all sitting in the hotel, drinking. I'm waiting for the show, and Nigel's, like, "I called her. I mean, she called me, and she's on her way." But I wasn't thinking about her no second time. We were watching TV when the phone rings, and she's downstairs. Nigel gave Man-man, my manager, some money to pay for the cab, and I was, like, "Let that b*tch pay for her own cab." She came upstairs looking all nice, dressed all provocative and shit, like she was ready for a prom date.

So we're all sitting there talking, and she's making me uncomfortable, because instead of sitting with Nigel and them, she's sitting on the arm of my chair. And Nigel and Trevor are looking at her like a chicken, like she's, like, food. It's a real uncomfortable situation. So I'm thinking, Okay, I'm going to take her to the room and get a massage. I'm thinking about being with her that night at Nell's. So we get in the room, I'm laying on my stomach, she's massaging my back. I turn around. She starts massaging my front. This lasted for about a half an hour. In between, we would stop and kiss each other. I'm thinking she's about to give me another blow job. But before she could do that, some ni**as came in, and I froze up more than she froze up. If she would have said anything, I would have said, "Hold on, let me finish." But I can't say nothing, because she's not saying nothing. How do I look saying, "Hold on"? That would be like I'm making her my girl.

So they came and they started touching her a**. They going, "Oooh, she's got a nice a**." Nigel isn't touching her, but I can hear his voice leading it, like, "Put her panties down, put her pantyhose down." I just got up and walked out the room.

Judging from your judgemental tone

Heh. God forbid that somebody should be judgemental about gang rape. However, my 'judgemental tone' as you put it, is simply intended to highlight the contradictory and paradoxical nature of somebody who claims that their reading matter consists of religious and feminist texts, while at the same time, has been convicted of participating in a gang rape.

Now you might think that's not an act that people should be judgemental about? However, I'd wager that if it was your wife, or your mother, or your daughter was the victim of such an offence, you'd probably feel rather differently about the matter.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:31 AM on March 16, 2008

And btw:

But I much prefer to separate the art from the artist.

As you might, but we aren't talking about Tupac's work. We're talking about Tupac's reading list -- and therefore we're talking about the artist. Do try and follow along, won't you?
posted by PeterMcDermott at 5:34 AM on March 16, 2008

PeterMcDermott: We're talking about Tupac's reading list -- and therefore we're talking about the artist. Do try and follow along, won't you?

I follow. What we're discussing are artist's influences, what shaped their art. Not who they were as people or what they were convicted of. I understood your reference to the obvious contradiction between his actions and reading habits. I just thought it was stupid.

Now you might think [rape is] not an act that people should be judgemental about?

Just because I called you out on a snide judgmental comment that had little to do with the post doesn't make me pro-gang rape, I hope.
posted by willie11 at 3:11 PM on March 16, 2008 [1 favorite has favorites]

What we're discussing are artist's influences, what shaped their art. Not who they were as people or what they were convicted of.

Presumably, the stuff that shapes their art also shapes who they are as people. Who they are as people, also determines what they get convicted of.

I just thought it was stupid.

Yeah, I feel much the same way about your politically correct defence of a gang rapist who postures as a poet, in the name of 'art'.

Just because I called you out on a snide judgmental comment that had little to do with the post doesn't make me pro-gang rape, I hope.

I've no idea what it makes you. I thought for a moment you were arguing that Tupac never done it, guv, he was framed by the Babylon who were determined to take down a black brother who was such an inspiration to his fellow man.

But FWIW, I don't see myself spending any money on Michael Jackson records, Woody Allen movies, Roman Polansky's films *or* the work of Tupac. And not only is my cultural intake especially impoverished by this self-denial, I also feel perfectly fine about not further enriching rapists and child molesters.

But as you've pointed out already, your mileage apparently varies.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:56 AM on March 23, 2008