One for the History Books

March 18, 2008 9:31 PM

Obama's Gettysburg Address. Today we saw and heard a preview of our brightest possible American future in Senator Barack Obama's glorious speech. This, then, is what it means to be presidential. To be moral. To have a real center. To speak honestly, from the heart, for the benefit of all. If there was any doubt about what we have missed in the anti-intellectual, ruthlessly incurious Bush years, and even the slippery Clinton ones (the years of "what is is"), those doubts were laid to rest by Barack Obama's magisterial speech today. A speech in which he distanced himself from a flawed father figure, Reverend Wright, and did so with almost Shakespearian dignity and honor. One of the most important speeches on race in decades if not longer. (text)

One for the history books.
Obama's Bold Gamble
Crisis into opportunity.
Even RedState (I love RedState in its own way) loves Obama, kind of

He gave the speech that no one with a real audience seems to have had courage to give, it acknowledges the feelings of both the black community and of the working class whites who so often seem in opposition, and he gives both their props. Cortex will probably delete this post, but nevertheless he can not silence the amazing phenomena which is Obama.

posted by caddis (1126 comments total)

This thread comes pre metaed. If you have any thread-crapping to do please do it in the meta thread.
posted by Artw at 9:35 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Brilliant speech btw.
I never, particularly after the last 7 years, thought in my lifetime I would see a leader so presidential and so stirring that he could have been an Aaron Sorkin character (minus all the rapid-fire pop culture stuff), but here we are.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:37 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Not only best of the web, but the best in and about America.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 9:39 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Not that I'm letting go of my love of all things Obama, but he lost me right about here:

and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

posted by Jimbob at 9:40 PM on March 18 [15 favorites]

God dammit.

This: http://img214.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cnnqv6vb9.jpg

Go there

(Ive been up over 48 hrs on deadlines. Sorry everyone)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:40 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

so stirring that he could have been an Aaron Sorkin character

I'm glad I wasn't the only one thinking that.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 9:41 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Who wrote the speech?
posted by cell divide at 9:41 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

so stirring that he could have been an Aaron Sorkin character

Am I the only one who doesn't see that as a positive thing?
posted by cell divide at 9:42 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Torrent here.
posted by plexi at 9:42 PM on March 18

I loved Jon Stewart's response to the story of this speech. Something like, "And so, at 11 a.m. on this Tuesday morning, for the first time ever a politician talked to us about the issue of race like we were adults." It was a punchline, but it was delivered so earnestly that no one could laugh.
posted by tepidmonkey at 9:42 PM on March 18 [33 favorites]

Senor Cardgage- Wow, they actually ran with that? They must have changed it pretty quickish.
posted by Artw at 9:42 PM on March 18

I certainly hope that picture is worth it, Senor Cardgage.
posted by shakespeherian at 9:43 PM on March 18

It's a nice speech, I suppose, but really it highlights how dumb the mainstream media viewpoint is.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:44 PM on March 18

Who wrote the speech?
Obama himself
posted by caddis at 9:46 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

CNN seriously fucking did that? Are y'all shitting me? Senor Cardgage, are you sure you didn't link to the wrong image yet again?
posted by booticon at 9:47 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Please keep this post.
posted by AwkwardPause at 9:47 PM on March 18

Obama himself

Wow. It is an incredible speech, I think everyone should watch this. I admit to be resistant at first but I'm glad I listened to the whole thing.
posted by cell divide at 9:47 PM on March 18

Senor Cardgage- Wow, they actually ran with that? They must have changed it pretty quickish.

Yup its real. Ran for like 7 minutes.
posted by Senor Cardgage at 9:47 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

in no other country on Earth is my story even possible

To be fair, he's not just talking about the mixing of cultures or black success - he's talking about his family's history, which combines rural white farm folk in Jim Crow mid-20th century Kansas relocating to Hawaii, where their daughter met and had a son with a Kenyan exchange student. I think the collision of the particulars of rural white America with the global nature of Obama's upbringing, followed by his struggle to define himself amidst polarizing racial identities in 1970s and 80s college and graduate programs and Chicago's street politics, really are uniquely American. The generalities - that people of mixed backgrounds can lead nations - are not. It's quite true that nations all over the world have brought forth leaders from non-dominant backgrounds. But I think he is speaking of these peculiarly American conditions within his upbringing, which could honestly arise in no other country of the world.
posted by Miko at 9:47 PM on March 18 [24 favorites]

Great speech, just makes me realize how sick of dumb I am.
posted by zeoslap at 9:48 PM on March 18 [24 favorites]

*Goes off to type 'Kevin Johnson political aspirations' into Google News.*
posted by donpedro at 9:48 PM on March 18

Stirring and so neccessary in these times. I admit that I was one of those walking around feeling all "kumbaya" like because Obama's doing so well. Today, I remembered that we still live in America ... and that is both a good and bad thing.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 9:49 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

And thanks Miko for clarifying that line. I can't believe it needed an explanation.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 9:50 PM on March 18

By preemptively slamming cortex and predicting deletion you sort of prefuckup an otherwise interesting post.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:50 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

cell divide: "Who wrote the speech?"

Marc Ambinder:

This wasn't a speech by committee... Obama wrote the speech himself, working on it for two days and nights.... and showed it to only a few of his top advisers.

No attribution beyond that, however.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 9:52 PM on March 18

Cortex will probably delete this post, but nevertheless he can not silence the amazing phenomena which is Obama

YEAH, TOO RIGHT CORTEX

We've put up with your Obama silencing for too long. We're not gonna take it any more!

Down with cortex

Down with cortex

Down with cortex

Down with cortex
posted by mattoxic at 9:52 PM on March 18

Am I the only one who was far from impressed by the speech? I watched it in the morning and then listened to clips of it, and while there is no denying Obama's rhetorical chops, the speech still reeked of politicking and damage control. I understand the imperatives that drove Obama to give this speech and it's good for what it needed to do, but to call it best of America takes the Obama worship way too far.
posted by Weebot at 9:54 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

I don't want to press the point because seriously, big ups to Obama, but is the following scenario completely impossible?

I am the son of a black man from Nigeria and a white woman from Bristol. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Churchill's Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line in Grenwich while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in England and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black Jamaican who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

posted by Jimbob at 9:58 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]

I have a dream...

...and I see it shared.

And I have hope.
posted by loquacious at 9:58 PM on March 18 [12 favorites]

to call it best of America takes the Obama worship way too far.

Shhhh! You're ruining it!
posted by tkolar at 10:00 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Regarding authorship, from the Newsweek article:

"Obama dictated a first draft to his young speechwriter Jon Favreau on Saturday, then reworked the speech until 3 a.m. Monday. He went at it anew on Tuesday, tweaking away until 2 a.m. Did Obama's political aides try to warn him off the idea? 'It wasn't even a discussion,' says Axelrod. 'He was going to do it. I know this sounds perhaps corny, but he actually believes in the fairness and good sense of the American people, and the importance of this issue. His candidacy is predicated on the fact that we can talk to each other in an honest and forthright way on this and other issues.'"
posted by aqhong at 10:01 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Inspiring speech, but I still don't think he's Presidential material. Why didn't he come out with this speech BEFORE the Wright revelations?

Obama, during the SC debate, was asked "Why Do You Think Bill Clinton Was Called The First Black President?" His answer was right down the middle; then he closed with "but I'm not sure if Bill is really a brother, because I haven't seen him dance".

WTF? That's not playing the race card? What if Hillary has said that **about her husband**?? She'd be out of the race.

Sorry folks, Obama is too slick for me. Hillary isn't perfect, either, but at least I know what I'm getting. Her negatives are out there, already.

If Obama gets the Dem nod, McCain will be the next President. There's NO WAY that Obama will beat McCain in FL and OH. With PA a close call. In fact, there's even an outside chance that Independent S. CA voters (ex-Republicans, 4-1) could tip the scales in that state against Obama (if he gets the Dem nod)

It makes me sick, as a moderate liberal, to see another left wing Democrat (or so he says, even though his views are centrist) taken under the wing of the Camelot Kennedy's, etc. etc. - like Kerry (basically a wimp), and Dukakis - and go on to defeat in the big elections.

Either this country starts to elect moderate politicians, or we're doomed. We can't afford orators, or "good old boys" any more.
posted by MetaMan at 10:02 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

Jon Favreau?

I thought it was weird when he referred to the electorate as "beautiful babies"

(check out my awesome restraint in not going for the "Youre so money" gag)
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:03 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

And thanks Miko for clarifying that line. I can't believe it needed an explanation.

Many non-Americans find American exceptionalism tiresome, not to mention utter bullshit. Obama's 2004 Democratic convention speech included a similar "only in America" line, and it's easy to interpret it as suggesting there's nowhere else in the world that immigrants are welcomed and become successful. In this case, I agree with Miko's intrepretation, but I can see why people might not read it the same way.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:04 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Am I the only one who was far from impressed by the speech?

It's not the kind of stirring speech we know he can give. But it does reward some hard listening and thought. it's impressive how he weighs and ascribes merit to both the perspectives of the white descendants of the immigrants of Europe and the black descendants of the forced immigrants of Africa, and then points to the forces of division that have exploited the fear between the two groups of the "zero-sum game," creating resentments that have been privately aired but not publicly shared with a focus on solutions.

When was the last time you heard a politician actually sum up the positions and perspectives of the "racial stalemate" we've had in the country for quite some time? He's naming the parts. He's talking in very real terms about very real issues in the nation's racial divide. I'm not sure I've heard anyone as prominent as he is put these sets of concerns on the same level, under the same degree of examination, and suggest that they need to be brought into true reconciliation in order to create a fair polity.
posted by Miko at 10:05 PM on March 18 [41 favorites]

Heh . . . don't pick on cortex, and he won't have to SHAZZAM!
posted by nola at 10:05 PM on March 18

With PA a close call.

I'm not so sure that Pennsylvania is a swing state. That's even less probable, if Obama were the Democratic candidate, given Philadelphia's large and politically active black community.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:06 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

but is the following scenario completely impossible

No, but has it happened?
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:06 PM on March 18

Wait, has it even come close to happening? Has the UK had any black candidate ... even one who wasn't viable?
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:07 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'm actually listening to the speech now. Based on what people were saying, and the fact that I'm totally gay for Obama [NOT GAY], I'm not as blown away as I had thought I might be, so far.

But, yes, it is more than refreshing -- it's like an effervescent hope enema laced with sunbeams -- to hear a politician who speaks both eloquently and plainly, and doesn't just shovel the same old tiresome bullshit that has made so many of us angrier and angrier over the past decades.

Is it possible after the leering fratboy douchebag, the greasy gladhanding car-salesman, the halting evil robot, and the wanna-be cowboy moron -- the last quarter-century of American presidential disappointments -- there might actually be the possibility of a reasonable, articulate, intelligent, ethical person at the top of the shit pyramid in Washington.

I have hope, too.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:07 PM on March 18 [20 favorites]

You say "the anti-intellectual, ruthlessly incurious Bush years, and even the slippery Clinton ones"

Oh, yes, they say. And work more on that perspective. Yer right, but extend it back, back, back. The degradation of America goes back to the pre-WWII decade, and then even more to the post-War 50s and 60s. THe fault is us! We stopped being local. We stopped eating real food, discipling and educating real children, reading real words and thoughts, not voting and acting by blocks and neighborhoods, not fixing, not cleaning. It's us. Bring it, Barack. Inspire people to live in their homes, work and build, and talk in their homes. THrow off the yoke of the cookie-cutter mind and stomach. Sigh and double sighs.
posted by yazi at 10:08 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

The speech, at this point, discussed possibilities not realities. I can think of nothing in either British law nor British national character that would prevent it. Well, it would pose difficulties for such a person to become head of state, I guess, but this hypothetical person could sure be prime minister.
posted by Jimbob at 10:08 PM on March 18

Hm. I normally wouldn't do this, but I spent a long time trying to think of what I would say about this on my blog, and I don't think I can add any more to it:

I've been trying to think of something appropriate to say about the speech Obama gave today, and I don't know where to start. I've read dozens of reactions, pro and con, but I feel like no one's managed yet to grasp the meaning of what he just did. There are a lot of people who've effused about oh what a wonderful speech it was, as well as a sizable contingent who've been nitpicking about it, but I haven't seen anyone yet who really seems to have grasped just what it meant. Even the people who've said that Obama "elevated the discourse" in some way don't seem to be able to explain how.

The "how" is that it was a speech that my grandmother, who, like Obama's, is a saint of a woman who nevertheless harbors some racial prejudices that are so very, very hard for me to reconcile with my image of her as one of the sweetest, most wonderful people in my life -- and Obama's speech is the first time I heard anything that I think -- I know -- she would really understand. The first.

I don't know if the speech will make a difference in the primary, and I don't know how the press will ultimately spin it. Elections are complex things, and I don't think the most important effects of this speech are ultimately about the election. I'd like to put the election aside for a moment and just talk about what Obama just did, which by all rights shouldn't have been possible.

What I honestly believe is this: that speech was a singular intellectual achievement, a contribution to the race debate in this country that will reshape everything that came before it and that comes after. I want to be crystal clear that I am not saying this in support of Obama's Presidential bid. Some of the most brilliant, eloquent, educated, dedicated people I've ever met have spent years trying to grapple with the problem of race relations in the United States -- affirmative action in particular -- and none of them has ever come up with a response or a take on the issue that hit home. Not even close.

I'd wager that I've spent more time pondering these issues that most people ever have or will, and it's never been anything but draining and frustrating. Texas Law is, after all, the unfortunate home for Painter, and more recently Hopwood, making it in many respects ground zero regarding affirmative action. There are still people on the faculty here who were directly involved in the case on both sides, and the issue is not far from the surface -- you can feel it. After nine years here, it's become almost palpable to me. And it grinds you down, because the tension never goes away -- every time I hear anyone say anything about race issues, no matter what their angle, no matter how radical or how conciliatory, I cringe inside, because I've heard all the reactions -- far too many times -- and I just know that there's no way anyone on the other side of the issue would react any way but negatively. It's a Möbius Strip of good intentions come to horrible ends. (And some not-so-good intentions as well, of course.)

Much of the commentary on Obama's speech hasn't yet credited just how intractable a political problem this has been for so long -- nor how much effort has been expended here to such negligible effect -- and the almost surreal ease with which Obama just shattered a seemingly-impregnable political barrier. As a long-time supporter of affirmative action, I've been almost despondent at times trying to think of some way, any way, to move the issue forward. Greater minds than mine have tried and failed -- endless volumes of books, treatises, essays, and court decisions have done next to nothing to unravel the Gordian Knot; every statement that's made, you can just feel that it doesn't quite cut through.

And yet, somehow, in one moment, Obama just... did it. That shouldn't even have been possible. I have been waiting for the better part of my adult life for someone to hit that perfect pitch, and Obama finally did it. That speech was the first time I've felt that I could say yes -- that is something I could say to my Midwestern relatives that they would actually understand. He connected their frustrations -- the frustrations that fueled the Southern Strategy, in many ways -- with the frustrations of African-Americans. That's a profound, profound thing.

And it wasn't just Obama's take on the situation or his life experiences, and it wasn't just a pretty speech; he actually connected the intellectual dots in a unique and original way -- in a way that even great scholars haven't yet been able to -- and he did it more than once. All the strands came together -- his pastor, the media circus, his church, his grandmother: those were universal chords. They will resonate.

I doubt that it'll become clear just how amazing this moment was for some time to come, but that was an intellectual and political tour de force on an absolutely unprecedented level. That was a stake through the heart of racism in this country, the Prejudice That Dare Not Speak Its Name, the "I'm not a racist, but..." sentiments that have fueled racial divisions between Americans since the end of the Civil War. That was really something special.
posted by spiderwire at 10:10 PM on March 18 [178 favorites]

When that hypothetical person is real perhaps we could have a more pointed discussion about possibility.
posted by Miko at 10:10 PM on March 18

either British law nor British national character that would prevent it.

The former might be true but the latter is bullshit. Sorry.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:12 PM on March 18

When your real person is elected president in reality, we'll see whether the possibility he discussed is real or not.
posted by Jimbob at 10:12 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Really?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:13 PM on March 18

This is the USA. This speech could honestly arise in no other country of the world.

Patriotism belongs to us, to; not especially to the Falwell/Robertson/Cheney/Bush/CEOs coalition.

Time to take this uniquely multi-culti country back. I love it. I've lived many places; I love this place. I love others more, sometimes, but this is my home and I miss it when I've left it. This is where the music and the idealism and its enlightened confusion still lives among its people, if not in its corporate-political leadership. Can we stay together (cue Al Green)?

We will see. Count me, for at least these brief minutes before I fall asleep, as an optimist. Why can't we take control of this huge state and make it at least something resembling "The Shining City on the Hill?"
posted by kozad at 10:13 PM on March 18

Spiderwire, you mind if I steal that and send it everywhere?
posted by Senor Cardgage at 10:14 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Many non-Americans find American exceptionalism tiresome, not to mention utter bullshit.

Granted, and so do many Americans. However, it's only fair to acknowledge that the exceptionalist riff has been an inextricable part of English-speaking American political discourse from the get-go and that this rah-rah chauvinism plays big to the cheap seats, just as the same general sort of rah-rah national pride rhetoric undoubtedly works on the electorates of many other nations.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:14 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

The former might be true but the latter is bullshit.

Maybe so. But discussions about Obama constantly turn back to "a black guy will never win in this state, and a black guy will never win with this section of the population". What evidence is there that race relations in, say, England, are that much worse than they still are in the US?
posted by Jimbob at 10:14 PM on March 18

I don't even think we're discussing whether he's elected President or not. He's the front-running candidate for a major party nomination and is a mixed-race citizen of the country. If I'm not mistaken, that has not yet existed in your nation.
posted by Miko at 10:14 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

While we're at it:

Iowa
New Hampshire
South Carolina
Potomac Primaries
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:15 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I completely and unreservedly withdraw all my comments, because I'm starting to give the impression that I don't want this guy to win.
posted by Jimbob at 10:15 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

The possibility he's discussing is not his eventual victory, but the success he's seen so far. Name me a politician ... a successful, prominent, universally recognized politician with his background in the U.K., with the type of support he's seen.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:16 PM on March 18

You're right it hasn't existed in my nation, but I was talking about England, because I know damn well it's not a possibility in my nation ;)
posted by Jimbob at 10:16 PM on March 18

I'm actually listening to the speech now. Based on what people were saying, and the fact that I'm totally gay for Obama [NOT GAY], I'm not as blown away as I had thought I might be, so far.

Really? As someone who was completely unimpressed with Obama, I'm now impressed. A very mature talk on the subject of race, more notable still because it was given on television by a candidate for national office.
posted by Pastabagel at 10:17 PM on March 18

Obama, during the SC debate, was asked "Why Do You Think Bill Clinton Was Called The First Black President?" His answer was right down the middle; then he closed with "but I'm not sure if Bill is really a brother, because I haven't seen him dance".

I believe that was what they call "a joke".
posted by Artw at 10:18 PM on March 18 [24 favorites]

I saw the speech live on CNN. It was a ray of hope that restored my faith in Obama's ability to handle himself in a crisis. A bold challenge to the current state of our politics, and the media's bloodlust for distraction and sensationalism. A call for unity, to bypass these petty attitudes and confront our more pressing problems.

Then the speech ends. The first words out of Wolf Blitzer's mouth in response?

"I thought it was a preemptive strike designed to rebut all the criticism, not only he's faced over the past few weeks as a result of these comments from the Reverend Jeremiah Wright coming to light, Heidi, but going down the road in terms of his continuing struggle to get the Democratic presidential nomination, the struggle against Hillary Clinton. And then if he does get the Democratic presidential nomination, a preemptive strike against what he could expect down the road in his battle against John McCain in the general election in the fall."

And then it all falls back into simplification and banality.

On a completely unrelated note, I just got done watching that scene towards the end of the last Matrix movie. For hours, the audience had been dragged through this dark and dreary hellscape of shadows and fire and smoke and clanking machines. And then, right as Neo and Trinity are about to have their ship disemboweled by ravening killbots, they rocket upwards towards the angry thunderheads churning above them.

They break through.

For a few moments, the screen is filled with light. The battered, disabled craft soars past puffy cumulus and blue skies. The long-forgotten sun sparkles off of the scratched windows. Trinity, who has suffered a lifetime trapped in the cavernous, dangerous underworld, can only stare in disbelief. "Beautiful", she whispers. Then they arc past the moon, turn down, and plummet back into the inky depths, imbued with new momentum and ready to crash the gates of the machine city.

It's like a metaphor. Or something.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:18 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

Wolf Blitzer is a dick. All he could think to ask any guests was "do you think Obama condemmed pastor whatsisface enough".
posted by Artw at 10:20 PM on March 18

Miko: I didn't criticize the fact that it was flatter than his other speeches. In fact, I said the opposite; I listened to it on the radio and the sentiment was sharper the second time around.
posted by Weebot at 10:21 PM on March 18

I was talking about England

-sigh- I can't keep track. Why are you talking about England?

These things do occur within a cultural context, after all. It's not always American exceptionalism to recognize that American culture has features that don't exist in other cultures, just as the other cultures have features not extant in America. In this speech, Obama is addressing specifically American constructions of race, and for all the reasons spiderwire mentions, it has a lot of power.
posted by Miko at 10:22 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

which combines rural white farm folk in Jim Crow mid-20th century Kansas relocating to Hawaii, where their daughter met and had a son with a Kenyan exchange student. I think the collision of the particulars of rural white America with the global nature of Obama's upbringing, followed by his struggle to define himself amidst polarizing racial identities in 1970s and 80s college and graduate programs and Chicago's street politics, really are uniquely American.

If you're going to specify "mid 20th century Kansas" and "Hawaii" and "Kenyan exchange student" then sure, it's trivially only possible in america - it's only possible where he could have been brought up in mid 20th century Kansas, for starters.

But that a white woman whose ancestry was racist or slave-owning could marry an African happens all the time in Europe, since they have a lot more direct African immigrants. It seems "uniquely American" only in that it actually happened in America, and because his experience was American, i.e., he has a sense of what being black in America is like due to the shade of his skin, which he might not have if his dad had done his exchange program in London. That doesn't really make his story itself only possible in America...
posted by mdn at 10:22 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

But I think he is speaking of these peculiarly American conditions within his upbringing, which could honestly arise in no other country of the world.

I don't doubt that his 'story' can be defined in such a way ("best schools in America", "Pattons army" etc), but I thought it sounded like simple "aren't we great" jingoism. I mean, it doesn't really add anything, but if it makes the (target) audience (of which I am not a member) feel good about themselves (and thus the event, and the candidate), then yay for that.
posted by pompomtom at 10:23 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

My final thoughts on the speech and the matter before bed: I bet there's gonna be a bunch of white people at church on Sunday trying to get a handle on what we talk about there (I only go like four times a year so I'm not sure what's said the rest of the time.) I better get there early for a seat. This, by the way, is what they call a joke.
posted by notjustfoxybrown at 10:25 PM on March 18

I disagree, mdn, because slavery and colonialism and post-slavery eras were not all the same in the nations you mention. They're not interchangeable. What it means to come from mid-20th -century Kansas is not interchangeable with what it means to come from some European city with a different history.

he has a sense of what being black in America is like due to the shade of his skin

Exactly.

That doesn't really make his story itself only possible in America

I'd say it does.
posted by Miko at 10:25 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

And then it all falls back into simplification and banality.

A good read on how the mainstream media has failed the United States is James Fallows' Breaking the News: How the Media Undermine American Democracy.

By framing all political activity in terms of candidate A vs B, for the purposes of garnering ratings, we do not get to discuss matters in an adult and thoughtful way.

Instead, we can only rely on the infrequent good fortune to have YouTube and the like to watch politicians be human beings and discuss their ideas without the media's inane blabber getting in the way.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:25 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

Politicians telling the truth. What's next? A black guy as president.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:26 PM on March 18 [25 favorites]

he has a sense of what being black in America is like due to the shade of his skin

Exactly.

That doesn't really make his story itself only possible in America

I'd say it does.

That comment wasn't about mixed race heritage, but a minority reaching the heights, so will this do? I'm sure it's not the only example. But what an example it is. Do actually read it.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:29 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Hoping that the media didn't utterly mangle the message was certainly one of the bigger risks he took with this.
posted by Artw at 10:29 PM on March 18

I believe that was what they call "a joke".
posted by Artw at 10:18 PM

Really? White people can't dance/ black people can dance is still funny? Or just to british writers? Maybe a great speech, but he has the comedic talents of arsenio hall.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 10:31 PM on March 18

Like the Gettysburg Address, we probably won't understand what this speech meant for America until some passage of time has seasoned it in our consciences. But I got a glimpse of it today.

I was talking with my white, 81-year-old stepdad about the speech. He grew up in Eastern Kentucky, in the coal mining hills. He still uses the "N" word to refer to African Americans. And he is a Clinton supporter.

But today, when he watched Obama give his speech, he said he was moved to tears.

That's what this speech meant. I don't know how to put that into words, but I know it's something...wonderful.
posted by darkstar at 10:32 PM on March 18 [52 favorites]

Really? As someone who was completely unimpressed with Obama, I'm now impressed.

I just finished listening to it, and I think I want to listen again, but I'll say that the speech was pitch-perfect, not in any blow-dried soundbite CNN-pandering way, but in a real way, both in terms of delivery and language used, direct and yet carefully understated. Masterful, in every way, in the ideas and the way they were presented.

It didn't stir me, or get my heart racing, the way that some of his other speeches have, and the way that some of the great speeches delivered by... (well, I can't think of an American one since Kennedy, to be honest), but I don't think, just off the top of my head having just listened to it, it was intended to. It wasn't that kind of speech, intended to rouse the masses, to be populist.

It was plain, smart talk, and yes, I am even more impressed by the man than I was before, which I find a little hard to believe. I can't understand why Hillary Clinton is still in this race, to be honest. By comparison, she is so gratingly false, and by comparison, the way she telegraphs the... politicalness... of what she says, well, it seems like it comes from another century, like she should be in black and white (no pun intended), with frenetic piano music and dialogue cards flashed up between her thud-dullard rah-rah soundbite-timed pronouncements.

But then, I guess the broad, Edward Bernaysian political manipulative dumbass thaumaturgy is from another century. Thank god it might finally be coming to an end.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:33 PM on March 18 [10 favorites]

-shrugs-

For an offhand comment it seemed pretty witty and charming to me.
posted by Artw at 10:33 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

That doesn't really make his story itself only possible in America

I'd say it does.

Dammit. I'm back. If you want to get down to the idea that only the very specific details of his story could happen in America, rather than the broader themes, then why not take it further? Face it. That story could have only happened to him and might not say anything about broader American culture at all. After all, he's just 1 in 300,000,000 or so.
posted by Jimbob at 10:33 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

That comment wasn't about mixed race heritage, but a minority reaching the heights, so will this do?

To be fair, Canada is a bit ahead of the United States on most racial matters (and the same or behind on certain others), largely due to its history of seeing immigration as a positive for Canadian society.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:35 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

not in any blow-dried soundbite CNN-pandering way

CNN seems to, in fact, be bending over backwards to fuck it up by fitting it into some kind of dramatic framework they can cope with.
posted by Artw at 10:35 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Cortex will probably delete this post, but nevertheless he can not silence the amazing phenomena which is Obama.

Way to crap on your own post.

I mean, this is clearly the moment that brings it home or ends it for the candidate, and you choose to close the post with a nasty, pointless remark directed at a volunteer moderator that simultaneously shifts the focus from Obama's ideas and skills as a communicator to his role as a totem, a 'phenomena,' as you put it.

Seriously, if the nomination is Obama's, and he wins, this speech will become a teaching tool in schools for two generations. It's as though you posted a thread on the day of the Gettysburg Address or on the day of the March on Washington, highlighting the day's speeches made by Lincoln or King, and ended it with extended middle finger directed at the staff of the newsletter or newspaper you hoped would publish it.

You have cheapened your own perspective and lessened an important moment in American political history.

Not that Wolf Blitzer has anything on you, but, like, kick it down a notch.
posted by mwhybark at 10:35 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

But today, when he watched Obama give his speech, he said he was moved to tears.

Me too, for what it's worth. Let's hope we're not alone.
posted by mwhybark at 10:37 PM on March 18

mwhybark - In defence of caddis, there is some history to that (see the meta thread), though not history that really should have made it into this post.
posted by Artw at 10:37 PM on March 18

> Am I the only one who was far from impressed by the speech?

You could always go over to The Corner where they've pretty much proven that the whole speech was a thinly veiled threat to make being White illegal as soon as he's elected. Or something. That site doesn't really make much sense to me.

All politics aside, from the point of view of a Black man who grew up in post-civil rights America, his speech was profound and moving. There is nothing about my life that fits into the simplistic polarized view of race that has been widely accepted as reality in mainstream discourse. I guess anyone can read whatever they want into his words. What I heard, was a call for a more intelligent nuanced and sympathetic discussion on a topic that isn't going away anytime soon. Giving that he's in the middle of a run for the highest office in the land, that's a pretty courageous thing to call for.
posted by billyfleetwood at 10:38 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

True, BP. The equivalent would be, say, a Native Canadian becoming G.G., in terms of dealing with our own societal prejudices. But it's still a hell of a story, and I don't think it quite fits with the "only in America" perception, but whatever. That bit of rhetoric is hardly new.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:39 PM on March 18

Miko: It's possible, at least here in Canada.
posted by jokeefe at 10:39 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I've been fairly apolitical this election cycle (though not usually) because it's been really hard to make up my mind. Do I choose the first X or the first Y? Is that even a valid method of choice? What about differing views on Issue Z? *Are* there any differences between the two candidates, really? It's all been bouncing around in my head, like a mini-laundromat.

I accidentally caught a snippet of this speech while waiting in a friend's car today and I was blown away. Much thanks to Caddis for posting it, since I've been meaning to listen to the whole thing.

Whether or not one believes Obama's situation is particularly unique to America or not (and I am not in the LEAST convinced that any country in Western Europe would at this time feel comfortable electing a man of color to their highest political position), it's worth pointing out that for America, this is historic. Obama's entire speech was a recognition of how much hope it's taken to even get this far.

So maybe his rhetoric was a bit over the top. He's a politician running for office--'over the top' is entirely to be expected. American exceptionalism, too. He's not running for leader of the UN, he's running for leader of the United States.
posted by librarylis at 10:39 PM on March 18

so will this do?

With all due respect to everyone, there honestly is limited value in comparisons to other Western democracies here. What am I supposed to take from this story? I don't understand Canadian politics, and I have no way of estimating how unusual it is for a Haitian with a fabulous education to get some sort of important government post. I would need cultural context to understand this.

I do understand how unusual it is for a mixed-race, liberal American to be a viable candidate for the highest office in our nation after centuries of systemic discrimination and a particular and gradual history of civil rights agitation that has followed its own pace, created its own leaders, and taken its own course. Our racial history here is unique; just as the racial histories of all other countries are unique. The solutions that bring about racial parity will also be unique. They will occur within a cultural context that addresses the fears of the dominant group - whatever those may be - while advancing the aims of the underrepresented group - whatever those may be. The details will not be the same nation to nation, nor will the relative import of the events be exactly equivalent. Not only because our cultural histories are different, but also, for heaven's sake, that our apportionment of power within government is quite different. A President is not a PM.

I agree that it may not be exceptional that A Black Person could achieve A High Office in A Western Democracy. But it is exceptional that Barack Obama is the Leading Contender for the Democratic Nomination for President of the United States.
posted by Miko at 10:39 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]

Obama, during the SC debate, was asked "Why Do You Think Bill Clinton Was Called The First Black President?" His answer was right down the middle; then he closed with "but I'm not sure if Bill is really a brother, because I haven't seen him dance".

I believe that was what they call "a joke".

You mean a "racist joke", right? Sure, it was a light moment. I watched the debate, but there's NO WAY that Hillary could have said that even about her own husband.

All that aside, Obama would be a great UN representative, or head of HEW, but President? Spare me? I want someone who knows how to get their hands dirty, and go right down in the dirt to duke it out with the forces of neocon evil. I don't think Obama can do that; in fact, I know he can't.
posted by MetaMan at 10:41 PM on March 18

I would need cultural context to understand this.

Oh dear, Miko. I do find your comments to be insightful and intelligent, but come on.
Arrives a refugee and ends up Governor General?

The context was there. I guess you missed it.

Clearly there has never been a success story like Obama's. America the beautiful, etc, etc. I was beginning to forget the refrain. I'll happily bow out now.
posted by Durn Bronzefist at 10:44 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

If Obama gets the Dem nod, McCain will be the next President. There's NO WAY that Obama will beat McCain in FL and OH. With PA a close call. In fact, there's even an outside chance that Independent S. CA voters (ex-Republicans, 4-1) could tip the scales in that state against Obama (if he gets the Dem nod)

Metaman, why?

Let me acknowlege the elephant in the room. If, as seems highly probable, Hillary is behind in the pleged delegates and she gets the white super delegates to throw the election to her (newsflash--nearly every black super will vote for him for fear of never holding elected office) what makes you think that Hillary will be able to win without the support of African-Americans? Do you really think that they are going to vote for her? They will stay home or vote for McCain because they will feel rightfully that white America and the Democratic Party will have abandoned them. Not only that but it will take decades for the party to recover.

And its not just blacks. Obama gets college age kids to register and vote Democratic. Studies show that first registration usually sticks. The Democrats will lose those voters forever.

Hillary is going to destroy the party if she pulls off this manuver. Not just for this election, but for decades.Perhaps for all time.

I've been a party activist for 20 years but if this works, the Democratic Party doesn't stand for what I believe in. If Hillary leads in pleged delegates, I will vote for her in the fall. If not and she becomes the nominee, I won't be able to vote for this party ever again.

What makes it worse is that he consistently does better than her in the polls against McCain. Her whole premise is a lie.
posted by Ironmouth at 10:47 PM on March 18 [21 favorites]

Caught most of it on CSPAN tonight - good speech. Hell, by U.S. political standards, it was a fucking great speech. Except for the part, of course, where he absolved rightwing Israeli government policies from any blame for the Palestinian mess.

*gag*

Still, it's obvious this guy really does have potential to bring folks together. It's weird how Obama's relationship with Wright - and the distancing from him, which began the day Obama announced - has been covered for at least a year but is just now getting traction. Obama's people knew this was going to be an issue, so they've had time to prepare a solid response. He did good.

But, honestly, I wonder how much this speech can do to stem the impact of the attack ads we'll see in the fall with Wright's worst quotes superimposed over Obama's face. You can hear McCain's team giggling at the thought of a convenient "third-party" spot pointing out that Wright went to visit Qaddafi in Libya in 1984 with Louis Farrakhan. Wright himself reportedly said, "When [Obama’s] enemies find out that in 1984 I went to Tripoli to visit Colonel Gadaffi with Farrakhan, a lot of his Jewish support will dry up quicker than a snowball in hell." McCain would have to be an idiot to not use that, and Obama's going to have to hit back hard if he wants to win. I worry that his "we can all be reasonable" approach is going to have him on the defensive throughout most of the fall. Not a good place to be, even against a weak candidate like McCain.

I still think Obama's a better Dem nominee than Clinton, barely, but you've got to be a fool to think this episode is over after today.
posted by mediareport at 10:48 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

The context was there. I guess you missed it.

I don't wish to speak for Miko, but the context, I think, is that Canada is not the United States. For Obama to get as far as he has, given the history of the United States, is not only improbable but unprecedented.

Again, that's with respect to the culture and background in the United States, because other countries have had female heads of state, for example (UK, Finland), and that, too, would be unusual and unprecedented for the United States, to its great shame.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:48 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

billyfleetwood ...
What I heard, was a call for a more intelligent nuanced and sympathetic discussion on a topic that isn't going away anytime soon.

Speaking as a wealthy middle-aged white guy, that's what I heard too.

Giving that he's in the middle of a run for the highest office in the land, that's a pretty courageous thing to call for.

And one thing that I *am* sure of is that whether he wins or not, the fact that he was able to give that speech in that context will be another push in the right direction for racial politics in the U.S. So good on him.

(the cynic in me, however, tells me that he's pretty much doomed on the presidential front. Sure would love to be wrong.)
posted by tkolar at 10:48 PM on March 18

I watched the debate, but there's NO WAY that Hillary could have said that even about her own husband.

Bill could of pulled it off. I agree that Hillary couldn't, but that's mostly down to her being Hillary.

And really, that's where the level is for "OMG racism"? I'm not sure that helps anything or anyone.
posted by Artw at 10:49 PM on March 18

I'm reading about Canadian government strcuture. This Governor General, then, is appointed by the monarch of England? This person serves "at her Majesty's pleasure?" For no specific term? The position alternates by convention between French and English speakers? The position serves as a monarchical "check" on the government powers of the PM?

That's quite a different path to power than what we're discussing here.

I'm just saying that the generalities here are of very limited use. Obama needs to make his case within an American context. Were he to win the general election, it would be a pretty huge deal, given our government structure, cultural context, and particular history.
posted by Miko at 10:49 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure why this is, but I find myself intensely disliking people that nitpick Obama speeches. I feel like it tells me everything I need to know about them, that they're kind of person that could read or watch a speech like that and then focus on trivialities just to tear the man down.
posted by empath at 10:49 PM on March 18 [22 favorites]

Dammit. I'm back. If you want to get down to the idea that only the very specific details of his story could happen in America, rather than the broader themes, then why not take it further? Face it. That story could have only happened to him and might not say anything about broader American culture at all. After all, he's just 1 in 300,000,000 or so.

Jimbob, I can't remember how familiar you are with American political history, but what Obama's saying was accurate, in a certain way -- though I can imagine how it sounds to you, and I don't blame you for your reaction. And your reading is not necessarily wrong.

But, by way of providing an alternate take, I've never taken that statement as America-centric nationalism ("Only in America, because America is the greatest..."), but rather as an observation on where he stands in our history personally, which is frankly at a very bizarre and unique place. Despite what you say, there are very, very few people in this country who have a background that's anything like Barack Obama's, in terms of how it relates to our cultural heritage.

It's a contextual comment about the United States itself, and how Obama's lived somewhere near the intersection of many strands of our history and the conflicted emotions associated with them -- division, reconcilation, pride, anger, hope, guilt... We're a country that's deeply divided but almost totally unable to articulate why or how, and he's in a way a living representation of those contradictions.

That's not to say that he's some avatar of redemption. Many of those various threads are positive, either in Obama's case (his father leaving him), nor in general. The point is that they exist and that they're a part of us, and he represents them in a way that's concrete rather than abstract, which they often are for many Americans who don't have a lot of contact with people outside their own insulated groups. Most American public figures are either very cookie-cutter or make an effort to fit inside those predefined categories. Someone who doesn't do that -- and is actively showing it like he is -- really is something pretty rare for us.
posted by spiderwire at 10:50 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Michaelle Jean was appointed, not elected. Speaking of England, lets not forget they elected a woman prime minister 25-odd years ago, and, that woman was herself the daughter of a humble shopkeeper. So, I dont dismiss so lightly what the English are capable of, especially now. (Ihate the crusty old blighted island but facts are facts).
posted by Rumple at 10:53 PM on March 18

I feel like it tells me everything I need to know about them,

Ah, that's the politicsfilter I know and love.

[goes and deletes post from recent activity]
posted by tkolar at 10:54 PM on March 18

Also, this is not the first speech his done of this type or quality. His speech on religion and politics was just as thoughtful.
posted by empath at 10:54 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

ONLY IN AMERICA
posted by Joseph Gurl at 10:54 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Miko has it, in my opinion.

I didn't think I'd see this in my lifetime. I'm done being a measured supporter of Obama. I am now a member of the cult.
posted by fourcheesemac at 10:54 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

tkolar -- just to be clear, I'm fine with people criticizing the substance. What drives me up a wall is people pulling quotes out of context or saying things like "He threw his grandmother under the bus" after seeing a speech like that. I can't help it.
posted by empath at 10:56 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Spiderwire, you mind if I steal that and send it everywhere?

Of course not! I really wish I could just explain it more clearly, and without sounding like such a sunshine-pumper.
posted by spiderwire at 10:56 PM on March 18

Obama's lived somewhere near the intersection of many strands of our history

This entire comment is beautifully said, spiderwire. To our observers from overseas, I think all I can say is to read that and take it in. It's not that we believe that only in America can people from once-oppressed groups lead. It's that people with his particular set of experiences are indeed quite rare here, and that to be as great a success as he has been, he has to make sense to people on both ends of a very long continuum. Because of his background at spiderwire's "intersection," he has that ability and it may be the very thing, even the only thing, that could win for so unlikely, given our history, the broad public support required to gain our highest and most powerful office.
posted by Miko at 10:56 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

I'm done being a measured supporter of Obama. I am now a member of the cult.

You'll be more effective as a measured supporter.

Rethink.
posted by mediareport at 10:57 PM on March 18 [10 favorites]

I read Obama's statement exactly as Jimbob did: American exceptionalism, plain and simple, the flip side of the God's Country Bringin' Freedom and Liberty to The World attitude that has led to so many tears globally.

Good speech otherwise.
posted by Rumple at 10:58 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

The only thing I dislike more than corrupt politicians is hero worship.
posted by cytherea at 10:59 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

But I think he is speaking of these peculiarly American conditions within his upbringing, which could honestly arise in no other country of the world.

That's true, but what's also true is that the U.S. will be the first non-African country with a black president (With one exception being a south American country with a 40% black population, IIRC)

WTF? That's not playing the race card? What if Hillary has said that **about her husband**?? She'd be out of the race. -- MetaMan. It's called a joke dude, lighten up. And by the way, Hillary has made jokes about her husband being "The first black president", and being in an "interracial relationship". So your central premise is actually wrong here, like your electoral prognostication (Obama losing CA? Get real) Obama wins head-to-head match up polling against McCain, and this crap only matters in Primaries where people worry about what other people think. In a general election, they only care what they think, and no one is going to vote for John "More wars, Less jobs" McCain. The biggest Fairy Tale in this election is the idea that any of the top democrats could lose.

We stopped eating real food, discipling and educating real children, reading real words and thoughts, not voting and acting by blocks and neighborhoods, not fixing, not cleaning.

Americans are smarter and live longer lives then they did in the 1930s.

--

Anyway, repeating what I said in the MeTa, I'm kind of annoyed that Obama even had to give this speech. Nothing write said would have been beyond the pail for Conservative religious leaders, but when a Liberal religious leader spouts fiery rhetoric the media has a collective freakout session. "God Damn America"? At an evangelical "values voters summit" attended by republican presidential candidates several months ago they sang a version of "God Bless America" with "Bless" replaced with "Damn" where they whined about abortion and Teh Ghey. It cropped up on the Daily show and some liberal blogs.

And look at John McCain's new best buddy John Hagge, a guy who thinks Catholics are devil worshipers and wants to go to war with Iran to hasten the end times. Is what Wright said worse? I really don't think so.

The whole thing is a total distraction and while what Wright said was incendiary it would be par for the course on a site like Daily Kos. This idea that you're a horrible person if you don't praise America 100% of the time is ridiculous.

Anyway, since I think race relations in this country are pretty much fine, since I wasn't frightened by Wrights comments, and since I'm not at risk of voting for Hillary I'm kind of detached from this whole thing. But, I've got too say he really took over the news cycle with this thing, and it was a very daring thing to do. And that's a quality that has been very lacking in democrats lately. Imagine (as someone in the MeTa mentioned) if Kerry had given a speech as daring as this one about the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? He'd probably be president right now.

A lack of political cowardice is a major part of Obama, and that's something we need in a candidate. Someone who can take these issues and anything else that crops up in an election head-on.

Frankly, I was kind of expecting Obama to sort of ignore this stuff, hope it would go away and perhaps take a 5% hit in the polls or something. Not enough to lose the nomination at this point, but it would be something that would tarnish him. But he really pivoted on this beautifully. He's won the news cycle, and all the pundits are heaping praise on the guy. He really is a fantastic politician.
posted by delmoi at 11:01 PM on March 18 [22 favorites]

I feel like it tells me everything I need to know about them, that they're kind of person that could read or watch a speech like that and then focus on trivialities just to tear the man down.

I nitpicked his speech because that was the only clause in it that was in any way non-brilliant. Most speech these days are 99% bullshit, rather than only 1% bullshit, so it's harder to take them to pieces.

Despite what you say, there are very, very few people in this country who have a background that's anything like Barack Obama's, in terms of how it relates to our cultural heritage.

Well, that was kind of my point. Very few people. And yet the way I read that speech, he seemed to be implying that there's something unique about America that led to him being allowed to exist. Obama is a very rare occurence - if something like that is so very rare and unusual, how can it be used to justify the idea that it is "only possible in America".

Were he to win the general election, it would be a pretty huge deal, given our government structure, cultural context, and particular history.

Once again - America is so special that it's the only place someone like Obama could be succesful...and yet it would be a huge, historic deal if he is actually successful. Doesn't that sit kinda weirdly with you guys?
posted by Jimbob at 11:02 PM on March 18 [10 favorites]

I didn't get to see the speech and haven't had the time to watch it on YouTube.

However, I did read it. And the impact is stunning when you have the time to stop and re-read phrases of it that really got your attention, and go back and look at just how he ties everything together.

This was a true "we need to talk" moment that I don't think anyone else could have delivered in such a way that people would take notice. Obama was able to deliver the message both from the point of view of someone caught in the middle of racial tensions, and from that of those who are seeing a whole different set of race issues. Very little of this was about the campaign, which is almost unbelievable when it's campaign season and all politicians can do with microphones is promote themselves.

This, though, is what really stuck with me: "I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork." We're looking at something I haven't seen in... well, I don't know if I've ever seen this - a candidate who is willing to handle political poison and discuss what the issue is really about, instead of playing it safe and going for the soundbite win. (He did the same thing this week with the Chicago tribune's editorial board, spending 3 hours answering all of their questions about his connections to Rezko.)
posted by azpenguin at 11:02 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]

I think a fair point of criticism, for example is pointing out that Obama's solution to the race problem seems to be spending more money on the same tired liberal programs that have done almost nothing to solve endemic poverty. I'd prefer to see something more bold from him. But I think before you get into criticism you at least have to recognize what he accomplished in terms of re-writing the racial narrative of America. It's a rare talent that can do something like that, and focusing on whatever was lacking in the speech just strikes me as being petty and small-minded.
posted by empath at 11:03 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

also: jimbob, that wasn't directed at you. I was thinking more of the hillary-bots on the liberal blogs and the Corner folks at the National Review.
posted by empath at 11:05 PM on March 18

And look at John McCain's new best buddy John Hagge, a guy who thinks Catholics are devil worshipers and wants to go to war with Iran to hasten the end times.

The fact that the press isn't also going after McCain to distance himself from Hagge is one of the most disgusting things about this mess. Hagge's statements are much more specifically hurtful, but conservative extremism doesn't rate on the outrage scale, apparently.

At an evangelical "values voters summit" attended by republican presidential candidates several months ago they sang a version of "God Bless America" with "Bless" replaced with "Damn" where they whined about abortion and Teh Ghey.

I'd love to have a cite for this, if anyone's got one handy. I'm not doubting, just wanting the specifics.
posted by mediareport at 11:06 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

you've got to be a fool to think this episode is over after today.

I am quite probably a fool, but I still can't understand why anyone gives a shit about 'the episode' (this Wright fellow, I assume), other than because the news media that needs fake-dramatic meat for its idiot grinder tells them they should. I really don't quite get why anyone who is both intelligent and thoughtful actually cares.

I suppose it's a bit like the reaction of a child regularly beaten to flinch at a raised hand, even if that hand is raised in love.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:07 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

focusing on whatever was lacking in the speech just strikes me as being petty and small-minded realistic and even-handed.

Much better. It's possible to be excited by Obama's candidacy and not leave your brain at the door. Acknowledging the beauty of the speech and then moving on to point out where you disagree with it is hardly "small-minded." Get a grip.
posted by mediareport at 11:08 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

This speech just sucked all the oxygen out of the room. Hillary who?
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:14 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

I read Obama's statement exactly as Jimbob did: American exceptionalism, plain and simple, the flip side of the God's Country Bringin' Freedom and Liberty to The World attitude that has led to so many tears globally.

Nobody (OK, lots of people, but you know what I'm saying) has been more vocal in their condemnation of that sort of thing, or more angry and disappointed at what has happened to America in the past 8 years (hell, the past 28 years) than me, but I am willing to totally give the man a pass on that, because, in a sense that is important here, it is literally true, or near enough not to matter. His story, because it is his, and because, if for no other reason than it includes ancestors who both were slaves and owned them, when put together with the other elements of his biography, might have been possible if he were a citizen of some other country, but so wildly unlikely as to make the rhetorical power of expressing it the way he did less a matter of exceptionalism than one of word choice.

But that's just my take on it. I do think it's a little crass and a lot pointless to equate such a thing with the kind of garbage that spills from the mouths of George W and his ilk.

It's possible to be excited by Obama's candidacy and not leave your brain at the door. Acknowledging the beauty of the speech and then moving on to point out where you disagree with it is hardly "small-minded."

Aye. I think people are a bit gun shy because of the tendency of Democrats and their supporters to circle around a candidate and shoot one another in the face. I also think that the intelligence of this candidate makes it unnecessary to treat his ideas with kid gloves. My hope is, as ever, that it is his ideas as much as the (important, real, and necessary) sense of hope he is fostering that people discuss, honestly and in good faith, no matter where they find themselves on the political map.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:20 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Well, that was kind of my point. Very few people. And yet the way I read that speech, he seemed to be implying that there's something unique about America that led to him being allowed to exist. Obama is a very rare occurence - if something like that is so very rare and unusual, how can it be used to justify the idea that it is "only possible in America".

As I said, it's a fair reading. But I think the phrasing "my story is only possible in America" is the important thing. I wouldn't try to deny the sense of pride in the phrase, but pride isn't always shallow or banal. To the extent that Obama's talking about his own successes, he's also tying them into our history. And he almost always makes that connection explicitly when he uses this phrase, too.

The causality there is important, because it's that subtle distinction that also underlies what you take issue with -- it's the distinction between the bravado that comes from a sense of entitlement versus the gratefuless that comes from a pride in our history and those who've sacrificed for us.

That difference is also something that many of us here have been trying desperately to put into words to for the last eight years. Our inability to talk about patriotism in a way that didn't reek of exceptionalism had very real consequences. It's not an easy thing to do, but it's very important.
posted by spiderwire at 11:22 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

What spiderwire said.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:25 PM on March 18

OMG IS THIS LIKE THE DIGG REVOLUTION? 09-F9-11-02-9D-74-E3-5B-D8-41-56-C5-63-56-88-C0!!

Actually, I'm glad this got FPP'ed -- it's a damn good speech.
posted by spiderskull at 11:25 PM on March 18

Once again - America is so special that it's the only place someone like Obama could be succesful...and yet it would be a huge, historic deal if he is actually successful. Doesn't that sit kinda weirdly with you guys?

I think the point of the whole conversation is that the history of race in the US is all kinds of paradoxical and weird and contradictory. Yes, we have lots of potential, and yes that potential is often thwarted.
posted by billyfleetwood at 11:26 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

I'm not at all impressed.
A table of "brotherhood" would have to be impossibly huge, even bigger than the red hills of Georgia, for the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners to ALL be able to sit down together at it.

And this "day when all of God's children will be able to sing with a new meaning, "My country, 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died, land of the pilgrim's pride, from every mountainside, let freedom ring.""
What about separation of church and state?

No, no, it's just all just a crazy dream or something.
posted by Smedleyman at 11:30 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

I find this thread to be honestly confounding.

What on earth has Obama said that is so earth-shattering? I read the speech and thought it wonderful and eloquent and so on (except for the "I'm here for Ashley" part-- I swear I've heard that story before) but are things in America so divided that this speech, which seems to me so uncontroversial, can really be all that ground-breaking?

It's funny, but after all these years of living next door to America, having American friends-- my son's father is American!-- I get the feeling that I just don't understand you at all. ("You" in the most general sense, not just Mefites.) I mean, I'm wanting to argue with Miko. Miko, who I respect hugely; but for the very first time I can't understand, really, exactly what it is that she means here. How can Obama's story be uniquely American, except that it took place in America? In almost every country in the world people can remake themselves, with luck and daring and the right breaks. I have a friend who married a woman who was born in a hut in a Chinese village; she's not even exactly sure of the year. Now she's working in finance here in Canada. The world is full of such stories: the African emigrant, the South African CEO who was born in a village without running water. The world is full of ingenious, talented, smart people. Obama is, in this way, just another citizen of that world. Which is great; but as a narrative it's not uniquely American.
posted by jokeefe at 11:32 PM on March 18 [24 favorites]

You'll be more effective as a measured supporter.

Rethink.

I've rethought and rethought. I rethought after Reagan, Bush I, Clinton the First, and the coup d'etat of Emperor Bush II. I'm done rethinking.

Obama is so far superior to any politician who has run for the presidency in my lifetime, by every single measure of quality, that to quibble even slightly is unseemly nitpicking.

I mean seriously, Hillary Clinton? John McCain?

Why eat frozen hamburger helper when there's steak on the grill?
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:33 PM on March 18 [11 favorites]

Speaking of England, lets not forget they elected a woman prime minister 25-odd years ago, and, that woman was herself the daughter of a humble shopkeeper. So, I dont dismiss so lightly what the English are capable of, especially now. (Ihate the crusty old blighted island but facts are facts).

Both women and minorities tend to have an easier time making political and electoral gains if they are rightist. This has been the case in many countries, though I think the reasons for its being so is different for both of them.
posted by Shakeer at 11:33 PM on March 18

It's a good speech. A very good speech. Vintage Obama.

But will kids be studying it in school? Is it his Letter From A Birmingham Jail? Is it one of those cultural touchstones where our grandkids will be asking where we were when Obama gave The Speech?

Hell no.

This is Obama's equivalent to Kennedy's speech on his Catholicism. Important, for sure, but not his greatest. It could pacify a vocal opposition like Kennedy was able to, but none of us remember the details of Kennedy's speech in Houston because we never had to learn it.

His best speech so far? The one he gave in Ebenezer Baptist Church two months ago. That one I think will be in schoolbooks.
posted by dw at 11:34 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

You mean a "racist joke", right?

No, that would be Bill Clinton saying "Jesse Jackson won South Carolina, he he he."

For fuck's sake, get real.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:34 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Yeah, the British elected a woman prime minister because, among other things, she was a right proper racist. Like most white Brits of that era. And many of the present one.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:35 PM on March 18

And like Hillary Clinton.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:36 PM on March 18

Why eat frozen hamburger helper when there's steak on the grill?

Well, that's an improvement over your cult metaphor, at least.
posted by mediareport at 11:37 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Or I should say, Hillary is a opportunist, for whom racism is not out of bounds if necessary. I doubt she cares one way or the other about the color of anything but money.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:38 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

She's not an actual racist as far as we know.
posted by Artw at 11:39 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

I don't know if I got this right... did I get this right? Did Obama basically tell us that in order to move past this racial stalemate, we've got to understand the root of the resentment for both black and whites? And then we got to work together to make the United States better? That helping each other out benefits Americans as a whole?

I didn't come up with this myself, but it sounds like he wants us to follow the older definition of "competition". The one that is defined as, "to strive together" rather than, "be in rivalry with."

I can get behind that. I'm neither black or white, but I've experienced the nature of racial competition. Enough is enough. I can get behind what Obama's talking about, president or no.
posted by Mister Cheese at 11:40 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

OK, mediareport. By "member of the cult," I wasn't being metaphorical exactly. I was using hyperbole. Obviously, I have no intention of giving up my faculty of reason. But it's very rare that a candidate actually appeals directly to my faculty of reason. So call it a cult of rationality and we're even.

Obama would have to do something heinous to lose me at this point. I mean truly heinous.

Like pick Hillary Clinton as a running mate.
posted by fourcheesemac at 11:40 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

You know, it's kind of amusing that about half the thread is nitpicking about the 'only in America' clause. I mean, jeeze, people, how to miss the freaking point, yanno?

He's just pointed very clearly at a problem, and has positioned himself so that everyone can see him clearly, the first person to do so in my adult life. And many of you are arguing incessantly about a hangnail on his finger instead of just looking where he's pointing.

Wouldn't it be a slightly better use of the collective Metafilter brain to talk about what the speech means, and where to go from here, and how to understand some of the problems he's pointing out?

Who the fuck cares about 'only in America'? Do you need to distance yourself from the real message that badly?
posted by Malor at 11:40 PM on March 18 [31 favorites]