And the wheels start coming off again.
April 9, 2008 12:30 AM Subscribe
"It's ethnic cleansing happening." Fully ten days after elections that most are speculating were indeed won by the opposition party (Movement for Democratic Change), Robert Mugabe still clings to power in Zimbabwe. The voting results have still not been released, and 5 election officials have been arrested, "accused of tampering with the vote to the detriment of Mugabe's tally." Its been a tense time for Zim, and now the violence and land seizures have started again.
This morning it was reported that 60 white farmers have now been driven from their lands by "groups of as many as 200 young men, organized and paid by ZANU-PF and chanting party slogans and shouting anti-white epithets." That's over 10% of the remaining white farmers left in Zimbabwe, after the thousands in the last few years that had their lands seized at Mugabe's behest: "Land must remain in our hands - the land is ours, it must not be allowed to slip back into the hands of whites."
South Africa's Thabo Mbeki is expected to meet with the opposition leader. Tutu remains hopeful that Mugabe will step down, but gangs are going after opposition voters.
This morning it was reported that 60 white farmers have now been driven from their lands by "groups of as many as 200 young men, organized and paid by ZANU-PF and chanting party slogans and shouting anti-white epithets." That's over 10% of the remaining white farmers left in Zimbabwe, after the thousands in the last few years that had their lands seized at Mugabe's behest: "Land must remain in our hands - the land is ours, it must not be allowed to slip back into the hands of whites."
South Africa's Thabo Mbeki is expected to meet with the opposition leader. Tutu remains hopeful that Mugabe will step down, but gangs are going after opposition voters.
I can't say I'm surprised. You don't reach Mugabe's level of astronomical self-delusion without having little regard for things like "elections" or "democracy".
posted by Avenger at 12:42 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by Avenger at 12:42 AM on April 9, 2008
Robert Mugabe still clings to power in Zimbabwe.
Whether or not Mugabe holds onto power, the Indians aren't going back to their reservations.
posted by three blind mice at 1:43 AM on April 9, 2008
Whether or not Mugabe holds onto power, the Indians aren't going back to their reservations.
posted by three blind mice at 1:43 AM on April 9, 2008
The Zimbabwean High Court decision on whether the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission is compelled to release the presidential results is dues sometime today.
posted by PenDevil at 1:47 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by PenDevil at 1:47 AM on April 9, 2008
Does anyone have a credible link for the assertion that Mugabe has syphilis, the symptoms of which can include delusion, paranoia and aggression?
Mbeki is also a massive disappointment. Having championed the HIV sceptic cause his inability now to condemn Mugabe's behaviour is craven in the extreme.
posted by dmt at 3:06 AM on April 9, 2008
Mbeki is also a massive disappointment. Having championed the HIV sceptic cause his inability now to condemn Mugabe's behaviour is craven in the extreme.
posted by dmt at 3:06 AM on April 9, 2008
A South African intelligence officer made the claim, but I don't have a more credible reference than that link. Also notice the paragraph below the syphilis one - life expectancy in Zim has dropped to 39 from 61.
What's a truly sad thing is that in his tyranny, the only news network allowed to operate in Zim without fear of imprisonment, is Al Jazeera, and one can only speculate at how skewed they may be in favor of Robert's regime. So any facts or real figures about the extent of the atrocities there, is, effectively, the best that can be speculated on from across the border, or by the occasional under-cover reporter.
posted by allkindsoftime at 3:18 AM on April 9, 2008
What's a truly sad thing is that in his tyranny, the only news network allowed to operate in Zim without fear of imprisonment, is Al Jazeera, and one can only speculate at how skewed they may be in favor of Robert's regime. So any facts or real figures about the extent of the atrocities there, is, effectively, the best that can be speculated on from across the border, or by the occasional under-cover reporter.
posted by allkindsoftime at 3:18 AM on April 9, 2008
Where should I send my heartfelt thanks?
posted by sharksandwich at 3:20 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by sharksandwich at 3:20 AM on April 9, 2008
1) Start civil unrest 2) Declare martial law 3) Stay in power for as long as you want.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:39 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 3:39 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why does Mbeki not critise Mugabe? and why do the rest of the worlds leaders and governing bodies have such respect for Mbeki? He is one person (apart from possibly Kofi Annan) who could make a difference here. Jacob Zuma has spoken out but Mbeki opts for "quiet diplomacy". Zimbabwe's neighbours lack the will and the means to take action.
posted by adamvasco at 4:13 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by adamvasco at 4:13 AM on April 9, 2008
This is horrible, and I'm trying as hard as I can to avoid alluding to the 2000 presidential election.
posted by LSK at 4:49 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by LSK at 4:49 AM on April 9, 2008
Most likely because Mugabe can and will make things worse with the refugee crisis South Africa is dealing with if he feels he's being insulted or criticized, and he's likely to still be in power when all is said and done. He has the guns and the thugs, and the opposition hasn't. Why should he step down?
Mbeki is just being a realist. He has to live with the lunatic next door at the end of the day. Having prominent politicians like Zuma speak out is a sound policy to pressure Mugabe - but for Mbeki do the same would be less than helpful.
And the image of the heroic white man, trying to save the savages from themselves that's sometimes presented, is repugnant. They fought land reform tooth and nail, and instead they banked on the fact that only they had the know-how to run the farms, and that would allow them to live as they always had, or believed they would be paid handsomely for land that had been stolen in the first place. This makes them culpable in the crisis, not victims of it.
If you want to see a Zimbabwean in dire straights because of misrule, visit the slums of Harare. I doubt very much any of the white farmers will wind up there once they're forced off the land.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:07 AM on April 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Mbeki is just being a realist. He has to live with the lunatic next door at the end of the day. Having prominent politicians like Zuma speak out is a sound policy to pressure Mugabe - but for Mbeki do the same would be less than helpful.
And the image of the heroic white man, trying to save the savages from themselves that's sometimes presented, is repugnant. They fought land reform tooth and nail, and instead they banked on the fact that only they had the know-how to run the farms, and that would allow them to live as they always had, or believed they would be paid handsomely for land that had been stolen in the first place. This makes them culpable in the crisis, not victims of it.
If you want to see a Zimbabwean in dire straights because of misrule, visit the slums of Harare. I doubt very much any of the white farmers will wind up there once they're forced off the land.
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:07 AM on April 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
Why does Mbeki not critise Mugabe?
What would be the point? Mugabe does not respond criticism - especially not from other black African leaders. Kofi who?
Robert is reported to want his commonwealth propers. Make him an MBE, invite him to Buckingham palace for tea, give him a Nobel prize - the peace prize is meaningless anyway. Appeal to his vanity and he'd be as pliable as putty.
posted by three blind mice at 5:24 AM on April 9, 2008
What would be the point? Mugabe does not respond criticism - especially not from other black African leaders. Kofi who?
Robert is reported to want his commonwealth propers. Make him an MBE, invite him to Buckingham palace for tea, give him a Nobel prize - the peace prize is meaningless anyway. Appeal to his vanity and he'd be as pliable as putty.
posted by three blind mice at 5:24 AM on April 9, 2008
I too don't like the Daily Telegraph's attempts to find some kind of moral equivilence with ethnic cleansing in the Balkans and Mugabe's persecution of white farmers. That said, I dislike even more his destruction of his country's economy, turning the breadbasket of Africa into a basketcase. Holdovers from colonialism those white farmers may have been, but they did feed that country. The hunger in Harare's slums is directly attributable to Mugabe's appeasement of his powerbase.
Mbeki may be pragmatic but he is abetting Mugabe and in this instance morality ought rightly to trump the ANC's traditional affection for Mugabe and his role in achieving independence from white minority rule.
posted by dmt at 5:28 AM on April 9, 2008
Mbeki may be pragmatic but he is abetting Mugabe and in this instance morality ought rightly to trump the ANC's traditional affection for Mugabe and his role in achieving independence from white minority rule.
posted by dmt at 5:28 AM on April 9, 2008
...life expectancy in Zim has dropped to 39 from 61.
Jesus Christ.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 AM on April 9, 2008
Jesus Christ.
posted by middleclasstool at 5:58 AM on April 9, 2008
They fought land reform tooth and nail
Naturally. If I was living in a country with plenty of fertile land to go around, and someone wanted to take my farm to give it to someone, infrastructure, crops, livestock, and all? I'd have a problem with that too. Calling it "land reform" is putting a nice varnish on the violent theft that it really was.
they banked on the fact that only they had the know-how to run the farms
Judging by the current production of the country, apparently they were the only ones who had the know-how to run the farms. That's one of the reasons (the political disaster being another major one, of course) why the country is literally starving to death. The blacks taking over the land either have not the motivation or the ability to run the farms, and so the land languishes. When the last of the white farmers are gone, there's going to be even less food than there is now, and its already in a substantial deficit.
If you want to see a Zimbabwean in dire straights because of misrule, visit the slums of Harare.
That's ignorant. I was in Zim not long ago, and while I'm aware of the conditions of the slums of Harare, that's just one part of an entire country, and let me tell you - the entire country is living in similar conditions - the poverty is everywhere. Their grocery stores are empty. There's little or no electricity or running water in most places. People beg for clothes, because they can't get them there.
If you want to be angry at the white man, like the mobs wildly following Mugabe's lunatic rantings, and keep blaming them for the problems, go ahead. That's what got Zim to where it is today, after all.
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:58 AM on April 9, 2008 [8 favorites]
Naturally. If I was living in a country with plenty of fertile land to go around, and someone wanted to take my farm to give it to someone, infrastructure, crops, livestock, and all? I'd have a problem with that too. Calling it "land reform" is putting a nice varnish on the violent theft that it really was.
they banked on the fact that only they had the know-how to run the farms
Judging by the current production of the country, apparently they were the only ones who had the know-how to run the farms. That's one of the reasons (the political disaster being another major one, of course) why the country is literally starving to death. The blacks taking over the land either have not the motivation or the ability to run the farms, and so the land languishes. When the last of the white farmers are gone, there's going to be even less food than there is now, and its already in a substantial deficit.
If you want to see a Zimbabwean in dire straights because of misrule, visit the slums of Harare.
That's ignorant. I was in Zim not long ago, and while I'm aware of the conditions of the slums of Harare, that's just one part of an entire country, and let me tell you - the entire country is living in similar conditions - the poverty is everywhere. Their grocery stores are empty. There's little or no electricity or running water in most places. People beg for clothes, because they can't get them there.
If you want to be angry at the white man, like the mobs wildly following Mugabe's lunatic rantings, and keep blaming them for the problems, go ahead. That's what got Zim to where it is today, after all.
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:58 AM on April 9, 2008 [8 favorites]
allkindsoftime, maybe a quick look at Al Jazeera's coverage of the Zimbabwean election is in order?
'The Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) accused the ruling Zanu-PF on Tuesday of unleashing attacks and trying to provoke a backlash so that it could declare a state of emergency to prolong Mugabe's 28-year reign as president.'
'He blames everybody else; that is his characteristic response to things going wrong. Also, he has positioned himself so that he lives in a bubble [where] he doesn't have to take account of reality. People can only be there if they agree with him.
Indeed, when I went into the presidency to be grilled by Mugabe's spokesperson and intelligence agents, there was a huge placard outside the information office saying "Mugabe is right". '
posted by asok at 6:47 AM on April 9, 2008
'The Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) accused the ruling Zanu-PF on Tuesday of unleashing attacks and trying to provoke a backlash so that it could declare a state of emergency to prolong Mugabe's 28-year reign as president.'
'He blames everybody else; that is his characteristic response to things going wrong. Also, he has positioned himself so that he lives in a bubble [where] he doesn't have to take account of reality. People can only be there if they agree with him.
Indeed, when I went into the presidency to be grilled by Mugabe's spokesperson and intelligence agents, there was a huge placard outside the information office saying "Mugabe is right". '
posted by asok at 6:47 AM on April 9, 2008
Naturally. If I was living in a country with plenty of fertile land to go around, and someone wanted to take my farm to give it to someone, infrastructure, crops, livestock, and all? I'd have a problem with that too. Calling it "land reform" is putting a nice varnish on the violent theft that it really was.
Violent theft? If the government takes land from you and gives it to someone else, it's called "eminent domain", and it happens in pretty much every country, including the U.S. Obviously, governments may use violence to enforce their decisions. I don't know the details of what went on in Zimbabwe, but taking land from one person and giving it to another is not an unusual thing for a government to do.
Does anyone have a credible link for the assertion that Mugabe has syphilis, the symptoms of which can include delusion, paranoia and aggression?
I find that hard to believe given that syphilis is completely curable with antibiotics.
Also, Robert Mugube was born in 1924. The guy is 84 years old, he's not going to have all of his wits about him no matter what.
posted by delmoi at 6:54 AM on April 9, 2008
Violent theft? If the government takes land from you and gives it to someone else, it's called "eminent domain", and it happens in pretty much every country, including the U.S. Obviously, governments may use violence to enforce their decisions. I don't know the details of what went on in Zimbabwe, but taking land from one person and giving it to another is not an unusual thing for a government to do.
Does anyone have a credible link for the assertion that Mugabe has syphilis, the symptoms of which can include delusion, paranoia and aggression?
I find that hard to believe given that syphilis is completely curable with antibiotics.
Also, Robert Mugube was born in 1924. The guy is 84 years old, he's not going to have all of his wits about him no matter what.
posted by delmoi at 6:54 AM on April 9, 2008
Incidentally, I know ZanuPF voters who are good farmers, but who have no part of the land grab. They vote Zanu because that is how they have always voted, since they lived through the war. It seems the 'veterans' who were given the farms were not the same veterans who could actually run a farm.
For some years now you have had to show your ZanuPF membership card in order to shop at many places. Those with money buy all the food and then re-sell it to the population, which helps toward the cost of running their Mercedes SUVs. My friends say they had never seen so many luxury vehicles on the roads as they did when they visited Zim two years ago.
delmoi - I don't know the details of what went on in Zimbabwe
You could start by looking on the internet. Pro tip.
posted by asok at 7:00 AM on April 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
For some years now you have had to show your ZanuPF membership card in order to shop at many places. Those with money buy all the food and then re-sell it to the population, which helps toward the cost of running their Mercedes SUVs. My friends say they had never seen so many luxury vehicles on the roads as they did when they visited Zim two years ago.
delmoi - I don't know the details of what went on in Zimbabwe
You could start by looking on the internet. Pro tip.
posted by asok at 7:00 AM on April 9, 2008 [2 favorites]
turning the breadbasket of Africa into a basketcase.
I thought I recently heard this phrase on NPR, so I looked it up on Google, and it is used all over the place : Results 1 - 10 of about 1,310 for "turning the breadbasket of Africa into a basketcase".
Maybe this Atlantic article is the originator?
posted by The Jesse Helms at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2008
I thought I recently heard this phrase on NPR, so I looked it up on Google, and it is used all over the place : Results 1 - 10 of about 1,310 for "turning the breadbasket of Africa into a basketcase".
Maybe this Atlantic article is the originator?
posted by The Jesse Helms at 7:01 AM on April 9, 2008
I can understand pragmatism, but surely the huge machine supporting Mugabe must realise that a) he's going to die soon, b) the country wants him out, c) the people they're being asked to monster could very well end up in charge soon.
posted by bonaldi at 7:14 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by bonaldi at 7:14 AM on April 9, 2008
delmoi writes "Also, Robert Mugube was born in 1924. The guy is 84 years old, he's not going to have all of his wits about him no matter what."
Kind of ageist there don't you think?
posted by Mitheral at 7:42 AM on April 9, 2008
Kind of ageist there don't you think?
posted by Mitheral at 7:42 AM on April 9, 2008
Violent theft? ...I don't know the details of what went on in Zimbabwe...
Exactly. But thanks for the uniformed opinion.
posted by allkindsoftime at 7:46 AM on April 9, 2008
Exactly. But thanks for the uniformed opinion.
posted by allkindsoftime at 7:46 AM on April 9, 2008
In addition to the links above, could folks here who know the country/region well recommend reliable news sources for the ongoing situation?
posted by jquinby at 7:55 AM on April 9, 2008
posted by jquinby at 7:55 AM on April 9, 2008
jquinby: This Is Zimbabwe is a good source (but is not updated very often) as are South Africa's major news papers sites: Independent Group Online, Mail & Guardian (whose publisher is Trevor Ncube, a Zimbabwean himself, he also publishes The Zimbabwe Independent one of the few non-state newspapers in Zimbabwe but it's website is hardly also updated) and News24.
If you want totally unreliable information read The Herald a state run newspaper and Mugabe's government mouthpiece (love their headline 'Tsavingarai Begs For VP Post', a pile of rubbish if ever there was one).
posted by PenDevil at 8:22 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
If you want totally unreliable information read The Herald a state run newspaper and Mugabe's government mouthpiece (love their headline 'Tsavingarai Begs For VP Post', a pile of rubbish if ever there was one).
posted by PenDevil at 8:22 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
jquinby try this: Zimbabwe Journalists
"about 40 experienced Zimbabwean journalists, having left the country for various reasons connected to the political and economic problems bedevilling our country"
posted by adamvasco at 8:56 AM on April 9, 2008
"about 40 experienced Zimbabwean journalists, having left the country for various reasons connected to the political and economic problems bedevilling our country"
posted by adamvasco at 8:56 AM on April 9, 2008
The important thing is not that he replaced the white farmers with Black people, it's that he replaced them with his mates.
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 9:07 AM on April 9, 2008 [1 favorite]
Artw writes "The important thing is not that he replaced the white farmers with Black people, it's that he replaced them with his mates."
Or more to the point mates who may have been bang up soldiers but have proven to be incompetent farmers.
posted by Mitheral at 3:36 PM on April 9, 2008
Or more to the point mates who may have been bang up soldiers but have proven to be incompetent farmers.
posted by Mitheral at 3:36 PM on April 9, 2008
If the government takes land from you and gives it to someone else, it's called "eminent domain", and it happens in pretty much every country, including the U.S.
If the government takes land from you and gives it to someone else to buy their vote for the next election--which they still had to rig in order to win--is that also called "eminent domain" or is that something else?
I just want to be sure we're on the same page, here.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:45 PM on April 9, 2008
If the government takes land from you and gives it to someone else to buy their vote for the next election--which they still had to rig in order to win--is that also called "eminent domain" or is that something else?
I just want to be sure we're on the same page, here.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 3:45 PM on April 9, 2008
Bullshit. Economically in Sub Saharan Africa, The only folks who are educated or mobile enough are in the government. The government is the most lucrative job and is thus concentrated because International Aide fosters competition for the only wealth of the nation. So Of course The land goes to government workers. I doubt that's it his cronies as stated. I think that's a disgusting lie. The movement is Afrocentric, not the whims of one man. That's the real threat. And yes THAT SHIT WAS STOLEN! You white folks got some good-ass Kool-Aide. I wouldn't expect you to even suspect there was any complex geopolitical subterfuge going on. Keep drinking that shit. It's all lies.
posted by Student of Man at 3:56 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by Student of Man at 3:56 PM on April 9, 2008
Who the fuck can't Learn to Farm?!?!? I can't believe you people. The real question is why can't they sell their shit all of a sudden. Sanctions? uh...yeah.
posted by Student of Man at 3:59 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by Student of Man at 3:59 PM on April 9, 2008
See what Mugabe didn't seem to have realise is that the war veterans didn't just chase white farmers off their farms, they also chased their black farm labourers off as well (estimated at about 500 000 workers) who took the farming skills and knowledge with them.
So now the farms are lying fallow. Literally 4000 of 4500 commercial farms are no longer productive. Wheat and maize production is down 90%. Zimbabwe, who for decades was a net exporter of food, now has to import food. If it was only a case of not being able to sell then Zimbabwe would be sitting on gigantic pile of surplus maize.
And yes farms do go is his cronies. There have been cases of war veterans invading farms only to be summarily be kicked off by police as Zanu PF mucky mucks go around selecting which farm are theirs.
posted by PenDevil at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2008
So now the farms are lying fallow. Literally 4000 of 4500 commercial farms are no longer productive. Wheat and maize production is down 90%. Zimbabwe, who for decades was a net exporter of food, now has to import food. If it was only a case of not being able to sell then Zimbabwe would be sitting on gigantic pile of surplus maize.
And yes farms do go is his cronies. There have been cases of war veterans invading farms only to be summarily be kicked off by police as Zanu PF mucky mucks go around selecting which farm are theirs.
posted by PenDevil at 4:13 PM on April 9, 2008
The Zimbabwe National Liberation War Veterans Association, apparently.
I suppose Whitey is responisble for Operation Murambatsvina as well then?
posted by Artw at 4:15 PM on April 9, 2008
I suppose Whitey is responisble for Operation Murambatsvina as well then?
posted by Artw at 4:15 PM on April 9, 2008
"This is your last chance, you messed up when you voted. Next time you vote you must get it right or you will die."
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on April 9, 2008
posted by Artw at 4:40 PM on April 9, 2008
If the CIA didn't have a heart of blackest evil, wouldn't they be assassinating creeps like Mugabe instead of running cocaine? Especially at this moment, when his death would allow the rightfully elected government to take power as is proper?
If only I were king.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:21 PM on April 9, 2008
If only I were king.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:21 PM on April 9, 2008
No one said they couldn't learn to farm, they said they didn't know how to. And I'm sorry, what we saw in Zimbabwe was in no way a rule of law eminent domain. You had a government take property because of the owners race and redistribute it to supporters. If you really wanted to promote black land ownership you would: 1) create infrastructure on much of Zimbabwe's open but farmable land, 2) if you must, buy land from the whites, 3) settle actual farmers there and have a seamless transition, 4) use the rule of law to redistribute land, 5) and above all, make sure you don't jeopardize your country's food supply!
Anyway, I'm just surprised anyone is taking Mugabe's side. He certainly doesn't deserve it. There are many leaders that are afrocentric without running their entire nation into the ground.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:25 PM on April 9, 2008
Anyway, I'm just surprised anyone is taking Mugabe's side. He certainly doesn't deserve it. There are many leaders that are afrocentric without running their entire nation into the ground.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 6:25 PM on April 9, 2008
Student of Man writes "Who the fuck can't Learn to Farm?!?!? "
Besides what Lord Chancellor said not just anyone can pick up and run a successful small to medium size business like this. I doubt I could without several years education and I'd be surprised if 1 in 10 Canadians could without at least a few missteps. Cripes you don't even have a transition team in place to help the new owners out.
posted by Mitheral at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2008
Besides what Lord Chancellor said not just anyone can pick up and run a successful small to medium size business like this. I doubt I could without several years education and I'd be surprised if 1 in 10 Canadians could without at least a few missteps. Cripes you don't even have a transition team in place to help the new owners out.
posted by Mitheral at 8:03 PM on April 9, 2008
Wrong again. No one is taking his side. This overly simplistic vilification is irritating. This has GOT to make sense. But no one is trying to understand it--as usual. Instead we get the usual throwing of darts at a caricature of a typical megalomaniacal dictator.
OK..
The west states that the people are starving in Zimbabwe, and that is because the white farmer’s have been evicted from their farms and production has all but ceased. First of all, it is not the white farmers that do the farming in Zimbabwe; the African people are the farmers, but the whites, which were given title to the land by the international financial community, are the ones that can get financed for the modern equipment that is needed to produce larger harvests. With equal equipment, the African farmers could produce an even greater harvest to that of the whites who mainly supervise farm workers.
This is not a case of “taken the white man’s farms and left them homeless” as CNN, BBC and other news agencies have reported. The policy is “one farmer, one farm.” European settlers, mostly from Britain, had seized the land from the indigenous Africans by force of might. The land was never the property of the Europeans. Under “one man, one farm”, the settlers that the government had "defeated"(I quote because bushmen liberators don't win wars against world powers in an era of nuclear arms and jet fighters. I surmised the UK relinquished and transformed their model after media proliferation caused old-style colonialism to fall out of favor). However, were allowed to keep one farm. One white, Nikki Oppenheimer has a farm the size of the country of Belgium. Those that had four, ten or twenty farms had to select the one that they would keep, and return the others. you would think that poor white folks were being thrown out of the country with no place to go.
In an Ironic Twist, George Bush stated that “the (last) elections in Zimbabwe were a fraud … . In the statement, he said he is planning to finance the opposition and labor unions to bring down Zimbabwe’s government. Not only is that illegally interfering with the internal affairs of a sovereign nation, it is illegal use of our taxpayer’s money. The people of the United States are not at war with Zimbabwe. If the opposition party or labor union takes money from a foreign government to topple its own, that is treason and / or sedition (in any country) esp. Haiti
He who has the land, controls the economy. I'm sure the government would more than welcome honest whites who would like to be law abiding citizens of Zimbabwe. Sadly, this is not the case.
posted by Student of Man at 8:20 PM on April 9, 2008
OK..
The west states that the people are starving in Zimbabwe, and that is because the white farmer’s have been evicted from their farms and production has all but ceased. First of all, it is not the white farmers that do the farming in Zimbabwe; the African people are the farmers, but the whites, which were given title to the land by the international financial community, are the ones that can get financed for the modern equipment that is needed to produce larger harvests. With equal equipment, the African farmers could produce an even greater harvest to that of the whites who mainly supervise farm workers.
This is not a case of “taken the white man’s farms and left them homeless” as CNN, BBC and other news agencies have reported. The policy is “one farmer, one farm.” European settlers, mostly from Britain, had seized the land from the indigenous Africans by force of might. The land was never the property of the Europeans. Under “one man, one farm”, the settlers that the government had "defeated"(I quote because bushmen liberators don't win wars against world powers in an era of nuclear arms and jet fighters. I surmised the UK relinquished and transformed their model after media proliferation caused old-style colonialism to fall out of favor). However, were allowed to keep one farm. One white, Nikki Oppenheimer has a farm the size of the country of Belgium. Those that had four, ten or twenty farms had to select the one that they would keep, and return the others. you would think that poor white folks were being thrown out of the country with no place to go.
In an Ironic Twist, George Bush stated that “the (last) elections in Zimbabwe were a fraud … . In the statement, he said he is planning to finance the opposition and labor unions to bring down Zimbabwe’s government. Not only is that illegally interfering with the internal affairs of a sovereign nation, it is illegal use of our taxpayer’s money. The people of the United States are not at war with Zimbabwe. If the opposition party or labor union takes money from a foreign government to topple its own, that is treason and / or sedition (in any country) esp. Haiti
He who has the land, controls the economy. I'm sure the government would more than welcome honest whites who would like to be law abiding citizens of Zimbabwe. Sadly, this is not the case.
posted by Student of Man at 8:20 PM on April 9, 2008
Well, apart from everything. . .
I'm sure the government would more than welcome honest whites who would like to be law abiding citizens of Zimbabwe. Sadly, this is not the case.
Are you sure about that? allkindsoftime seems to have a different story.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:29 PM on April 9, 2008
I'm sure the government would more than welcome honest whites who would like to be law abiding citizens of Zimbabwe. Sadly, this is not the case.
Are you sure about that? allkindsoftime seems to have a different story.
posted by Lord Chancellor at 8:29 PM on April 9, 2008
The policy is “one farmer, one farm.”
Guess they won't be buying those big modern machines that make large-scale farming so efficient and productive, then.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:47 PM on April 9, 2008
Guess they won't be buying those big modern machines that make large-scale farming so efficient and productive, then.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:47 PM on April 9, 2008
This is not a case of “taken the white man’s farms and left them homeless” as CNN, BBC and other news agencies have reported.
Did you read the link in the very first comment on this thread?
It isn't CNN, BBC, and other news agencies telling you that this is happening. This is people I know that it has happened to.
Get a clue.
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:23 PM on April 9, 2008
Did you read the link in the very first comment on this thread?
It isn't CNN, BBC, and other news agencies telling you that this is happening. This is people I know that it has happened to.
Get a clue.
posted by allkindsoftime at 11:23 PM on April 9, 2008
First of all, it is not the white farmers that do the farming in Zimbabwe; the African people are the farmers, but the whites, which were given title to the land by the international financial community, are the ones that can get financed for the modern equipment that is needed to produce larger harvests. With equal equipment, the African farmers could produce an even greater harvest to that of the whites who mainly supervise farm workers.First of all I love your assumption that all black Africans have the "farming gene" as if farming would come naturally to a black accountant the second he leaves city limits or for that matter to rurak. As I mentioned before, it was not just white farmers who were evicted but their black farm workers as well. About 4000 farmers were evicted but an estimated 500 000 black farmworkers were chased off as well. Secondly you assume the war veterans actually wanted to farm. Most were merely paid to chase whites off their farms... and that's about as far as the plan went. Thirdly most of the farm equipment was left on the farms because it was made illegal for farmers to remove it and the Zimbabwean government has shown no qualms about printing currency to finance other ventures (like their ill timed army foray into the DRC which hit their reserves in a big way and is a lingering contributor to their hyperinflation) so the excuse that if only they had access to equipment and capital everything would be fine is ridiculous.
This is not a case of “taken the white man’s farms and left them homeless” as CNN, BBC and other news agencies have reported. The policy is “one farmer, one farm.”No it's not. As mentioned there were about 4000 white commercial farmers in Zimbabwe, that number is now down to a fraction of what it was an estimated 60 further being evicted off their farms after the se oast elections.
Those that had four, ten or twenty farms had to select the one that they would keep, and return the others. you would think that poor white folks were being thrown out of the country with no place to go.Well they did find some place to go. Many farmers just went next door to Zambia (which was more than happy to take them - "Tobacco production has increased in the last three years because of the white Zimbabwean farmers who have introduced highly mechanized farming in Zambia," says Finance Minister Ngandu Magande.) some went to Mozambique, some to Malawi even going as far north as Nigeria (Obasanjo was literally begging the farmers to settle in Nigeria).
posted by PenDevil at 12:55 AM on April 10, 2008
I should also add that the biggest fallacy is that farm invasions are some sort of land reform. They are little more than a political tool. Before 2000 when farm invasions were carried out by the rural poor they were summarily removed by the Zimbabwean police. It was only with the loss of the constitutional referendum in 2000 and the fact that the MDC managed to win 57 out of 120 parliamentary seats in the elections held in the same year did it becom clear to Zanu PF that they were losing conrol of the country and the farm invasions started.
Much of the loyalty of the Zanu PF (especially the higher ups) is built on patronage, Mugabe was at a real risk of losing all his support, especially from the armed forces which are the only reason he is still in power today, as the chances for patronage became increasingly rare. With all the farms now "taken" or no longer being attractive patronage, Mugabe is trying to introduce new laws requiring every company in Zimbabwe to be 51% black owned.
posted by PenDevil at 1:37 AM on April 10, 2008
Much of the loyalty of the Zanu PF (especially the higher ups) is built on patronage, Mugabe was at a real risk of losing all his support, especially from the armed forces which are the only reason he is still in power today, as the chances for patronage became increasingly rare. With all the farms now "taken" or no longer being attractive patronage, Mugabe is trying to introduce new laws requiring every company in Zimbabwe to be 51% black owned.
posted by PenDevil at 1:37 AM on April 10, 2008
I am floored that the number of Mugabe apologists in this thread is greater than zero.
posted by oaf at 1:18 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by oaf at 1:18 PM on April 10, 2008
I'd be more impressed if he wasn't pulling the "everything the media tells you is a lie!" card, or was more willing to consider the possibility that, while Whitey might be evil, Mugabe is not automatically good because of that.
posted by Artw at 1:51 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by Artw at 1:51 PM on April 10, 2008
A Chinese ship carrying a shipment of arms bound for Zimbabwe just docked in South Africa. There have also been rumours (unconfirmed at the moment) of uniformed Chinese soldiers being seen in Zimbabwe.
posted by PenDevil at 8:21 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by PenDevil at 8:21 AM on April 16, 2008
Pff. they're just there to protect the olympic flame as it passes through.
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by Artw at 8:40 AM on April 16, 2008
Zuma widens gap with Mbeki over Zimbabwe - "Mbeki, increasingly isolated in his "softly softly" approach to Zimbabwe and his insistence there is no crisis there, is chairing the meeting at U.N. headquarters as rotating Security Council president. He wants to block discussion of Zimbabwe."
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on April 16, 2008
posted by Artw at 10:50 AM on April 16, 2008
Mbeki, increasingly isolated in his "softly softly" approach to Zimbabwe and his insistence there is no crisis there
Yes, is there some local perspective that I'm missing? Because it seems like an idiotic, immoral and unjustifiable approach.
posted by bonaldi at 10:59 AM on April 16, 2008
Yes, is there some local perspective that I'm missing? Because it seems like an idiotic, immoral and unjustifiable approach.
posted by bonaldi at 10:59 AM on April 16, 2008
I think theres some local resistance to condeming anyone the Europeans condemn, on general principal. Obviously things are bad enough in ZImbabwe to outweigh that for most people, though not Mbeki.
Mbeki is also an AIDs denier and pretty nutty himself from what I hear.
posted by Artw at 11:11 AM on April 16, 2008
Mbeki is also an AIDs denier and pretty nutty himself from what I hear.
posted by Artw at 11:11 AM on April 16, 2008
and as a final correction that should read pro - chinese.
posted by adamvasco at 12:18 PM on April 16, 2008
posted by adamvasco at 12:18 PM on April 16, 2008
SA won't stop Zim arms cargo
The government has defended the Chinese consignment of arms destined for Zimbabwe which is on board a ship in Durban harbour.posted by PenDevil at 4:07 AM on April 17, 2008
The An Yue Jiang, which is reportedly loaded with 77 tons of mortars, ammunition and rocket-propelled grenades, was boarded by SAPS explosives experts on Wednesday.
Zim govt accuses Tsvangirai of treason
Zimbabwe's government on Thursday accused opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) leader Morgan Tsvangirai of treason, saying he had plotted with former colonial power Britain to bring about regime change.posted by PenDevil at 4:08 AM on April 17, 2008
Citing alleged correspondence between British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and Tsvangirai, Justice Minister Patrick Chinamasa said Tsvangirai was begging for military intervention in Zimbabwe after last month's disputed polls.
"It is clear from the correspondence that Tsvangirai along with Brown are seeking an illegal regime change in Zimbabwe and on the part of Tsvangirai this is treasonous," Chinamasa told the Herald newspaper, a government mouthpiece.
"There are no doubting consequences for acting in treasonous manner," he added. "The correspondence confirms Tsvangirai is not his own man and that he is working for the British interests to recolonise Zimbabwe."
Surely the U.S. can spare some Special Forces. They damn well better if Tsvangirai is executed for "treason," especially when Mugabe's been betraying the Zimbabwean people in the open for decades.
posted by oaf at 4:43 AM on April 17, 2008
posted by oaf at 4:43 AM on April 17, 2008
Uh the voters are also seeking regime change, by the look of it. Are they treasonous too?
posted by bonaldi at 4:48 AM on April 17, 2008
posted by bonaldi at 4:48 AM on April 17, 2008
working for the British interests to recolonise Zimbabwe
yeah, we TOTALY want to recolonise that mess.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on April 17, 2008
yeah, we TOTALY want to recolonise that mess.
posted by Artw at 9:29 AM on April 17, 2008
U.S. Criticizes Africa Over Zimbabwe
"It is time for Africa to step up," Rice told a news conference in Washington. "Where is the concern from the African Union and from Zimbabwe's neighbors about what is going on in Zimbabwe?"posted by oaf at 10:14 AM on April 17, 2008
At least someone's got balls:
Union refuses to unload arms ship
Union refuses to unload arms ship
Opposition to a shipment of arms being offloaded in Durban and transported to Zimbabwe increased today when South Africa’s largest transport workers union announced that its members would not unload the ship.posted by PenDevil at 1:58 PM on April 17, 2008
SA Transport and Allied Workers Union (Satawu) general secretary Randall Howard said: "Satawu does not agree with the position of the South African government not to intervene with this shipment of weapons.
working for the British interests to recolonise Zimbabwe
Thought it was China's job to colonize Africa now? (Or at least bleed it dry)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:55 AM on April 18, 2008
Thought it was China's job to colonize Africa now? (Or at least bleed it dry)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 2:55 AM on April 18, 2008
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posted by allkindsoftime at 12:41 AM on April 9, 2008