Where do we go from here? Why is the path unclear?
April 10, 2008 5:54 PM Subscribe
The antidote to LOLbushsuxx0rs. Over the course of the past week, Slate ran a ten (10!)-piece series, "Fixin' It", in which various writers postulated how the course of various aspects of the United States' military, culture, and policies could be redirected for the better. Although the articles are not entirely devoid of Bush criticism, there's mostly a fairly rare focus on the positive actions to be taken from here onward by the next President (whether it be McCain or Obama or Clinton).
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup
McCain: Declares Year of the Depends Adult Undergarment.
Clinton: Declares "I did not have financial relations with that interest group."
Obama: Declares "America! We Don't Suck As Much Any More."
End result: lulz.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:23 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Clinton: Declares "I did not have financial relations with that interest group."
Obama: Declares "America! We Don't Suck As Much Any More."
End result: lulz.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:23 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Honestly, I'm still trying to figure out a way to shift my mindset to a place where "fixin' it" seems like a possibility at all. I'm having a hard time.
posted by -t at 6:28 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by -t at 6:28 PM on April 10, 2008
Just had time to read the Education part (the most interesting to my situation), and I'd have to say, I like it. Nice post, WCityMike. It was rather refresshing, as you pointed out, that rather than whine about the current president, the articles focused more on ideas about what to do.
Can't wait to read the other sections.
posted by snwod at 6:37 PM on April 10, 2008
Can't wait to read the other sections.
posted by snwod at 6:37 PM on April 10, 2008
What a lot of fun, you guys have been real swell!
And there's not a one, who can say this ended well!
All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now, once more with feeling!
Now I gotta run, see you all in Hell....
posted by erniepan at 7:01 PM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
And there's not a one, who can say this ended well!
All those secrets you've been concealing
Say you're happy now, once more with feeling!
Now I gotta run, see you all in Hell....
posted by erniepan at 7:01 PM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
Is our electorates learning?
posted by blue_beetle at 7:01 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by blue_beetle at 7:01 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
The articles are reveal new hope, and that is....refreshing.
posted by humannaire at 7:21 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by humannaire at 7:21 PM on April 10, 2008
The articles are reveal new hope, and that is....refreshing.
posted by humannaire at 7:22 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by humannaire at 7:22 PM on April 10, 2008
It's an interesting contrast between Jack Goldsmith with his standard DC rhetoric and attitude in the Legal Policy article compared to Bruce Fein and his brash idealism in the Executive Branch article. Being rather idealistic and optimistic myself, I prefer Bruce's take, while Jack sounds like a jaded conformist. A national security court is a wretched idea. And telecom immunity in the domestic spying problem is just abetting criminal behavior and should be avoided. Jack is basically arguing for "a little less of the same."
I'm hoping all this hope mongering for change from Obama inspires us to push for the idealistic route. We need to shed this "post 9-11 thinking" syndrome. And it's not like resetting the overreaching of this administration over the past eight years would be that much of a radical change. It's still too bad what they did to the intelligence community's structure but I think that's manageable for now. The rest we should just say, "enough of the sauce."
posted by effwerd at 7:30 PM on April 10, 2008
I'm hoping all this hope mongering for change from Obama inspires us to push for the idealistic route. We need to shed this "post 9-11 thinking" syndrome. And it's not like resetting the overreaching of this administration over the past eight years would be that much of a radical change. It's still too bad what they did to the intelligence community's structure but I think that's manageable for now. The rest we should just say, "enough of the sauce."
posted by effwerd at 7:30 PM on April 10, 2008
I saw Rachel Maddow do her radio show live in Boulder today. Her guest was Joseph Cirincione, who talked about how even such well-known lefties as Henry Kissinger, Melvin Laird, and Frank Carlucci now dream of a world without nuclear weapons. That gave me hope.
posted by lukemeister at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2008
posted by lukemeister at 7:35 PM on April 10, 2008
Shouldn't War Crimes Tribunals be the first step?
Assuming, and I think we can all agree on this, that Bush and Co. will not travel to The Hague to stand trial voluntarily, who A) Has the power to bring them there by force and, B) Don't be fucking silly, no one has the power to bring and keep them there by force.
Reality is a bitch, but comments like yours are the other side of "The surge is working!" coin that, one of these days, certain folks are just going to have to realize that it just ain't happening.
posted by Cyrano at 8:30 PM on April 10, 2008
Assuming, and I think we can all agree on this, that Bush and Co. will not travel to The Hague to stand trial voluntarily, who A) Has the power to bring them there by force and, B) Don't be fucking silly, no one has the power to bring and keep them there by force.
Reality is a bitch, but comments like yours are the other side of "The surge is working!" coin that, one of these days, certain folks are just going to have to realize that it just ain't happening.
posted by Cyrano at 8:30 PM on April 10, 2008
Don't be fucking silly, no one has the power to bring and keep them there by force.
Yeah... but often people online get annoyed if you suggest shooting them where they stand.
posted by pompomtom at 8:54 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah... but often people online get annoyed if you suggest shooting them where they stand.
posted by pompomtom at 8:54 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
For the record, I only clicked on this thread because the inciting remarks of the original post quoted from Buffy the Vampire Slayer's sixth season musical episode "Once More With Feeling."
Where do we go from here? Why is the path unclear? Talk about false advertising! I was SO looking forward to linkage about Joss Whedon's latest explorations of the BuffyVerse via comic books. Needless to say I'm very disappointed.
When compared to the allegedly more serious issues of U.S. economic policy, military activity, and cultural relativism, it only reinforces the importance to continue the eternal argument over Buffy's sexual proclivities. She's gay now, by the way. Just in case you didn't know. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I think it's sweet. I'm still in the small but vocal contingent of fans who believe Buffy will eventually end up with Xander, but that whole Parker, Riley, suckers with souls confusion screwed everything up. Oh well. There's always whedonverse.org and the sordid apocryphal fanfic scattered about the 'Net like jelly beans to set it all straight.
Carry on. [/derail]
posted by ZachsMind at 9:09 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Where do we go from here? Why is the path unclear? Talk about false advertising! I was SO looking forward to linkage about Joss Whedon's latest explorations of the BuffyVerse via comic books. Needless to say I'm very disappointed.
When compared to the allegedly more serious issues of U.S. economic policy, military activity, and cultural relativism, it only reinforces the importance to continue the eternal argument over Buffy's sexual proclivities. She's gay now, by the way. Just in case you didn't know. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I think it's sweet. I'm still in the small but vocal contingent of fans who believe Buffy will eventually end up with Xander, but that whole Parker, Riley, suckers with souls confusion screwed everything up. Oh well. There's always whedonverse.org and the sordid apocryphal fanfic scattered about the 'Net like jelly beans to set it all straight.
Carry on. [/derail]
posted by ZachsMind at 9:09 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think the best thing we can do is get rid of the executive branch and not have a president. Or at least make it a lot less powerful and undo Bush's power grab.
posted by mike3k at 9:23 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by mike3k at 9:23 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
As a teacher at a high-performing school (in a very high-income area), the NCLB thing hasn't affected me too much. There are schools that are under sanction in my district, though, and no one really seems to know what to do about it.
From what I understand, the government can eventually come in and "fix" things... but how? Replacing teachers, replacing the principal; where do you find these new people? I know for a fact that the teachers at those schools are just as dedicated and talented as ours, so switching isn't going to do a thing.
Also, there's too much of an emphasis on every single person in the country going to college... it would be nice if we could set up some trade schools that people who want to fix things or build things could attend. Not going to college shouldn't and doesn't mean that you've failed in life.
posted by Huck500 at 9:26 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
From what I understand, the government can eventually come in and "fix" things... but how? Replacing teachers, replacing the principal; where do you find these new people? I know for a fact that the teachers at those schools are just as dedicated and talented as ours, so switching isn't going to do a thing.
Also, there's too much of an emphasis on every single person in the country going to college... it would be nice if we could set up some trade schools that people who want to fix things or build things could attend. Not going to college shouldn't and doesn't mean that you've failed in life.
posted by Huck500 at 9:26 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
Don't be fucking silly, no one has the power to bring and keep them there by force.
Really? When Bushco no longer control the American Military, what stops them from standing trial for their multitude of well documented abuses? They could be arrested in their homes same as you and I, or be forced to free to Paraguay to avoid standing trial. The only thing that stops that is 29% of the electorate and 71% who want to "reach across the aisle" and do things through "bipartisanship". And maybe 10,000 or so bought and paid for media types.
Forgive me, but I fail to see how conciliatory half measures such as letting bygones be bygones and letting everyone off the hook are in the best interest of moving forward in a new direction. I cant advocate a policy where we just allow this administration to stroll off into the sunset and retire to their blood-money estates in Crawford and Wyoming. Ultimately that's what will happen of course. Everyone will say "everything is ok, it's all forgiven" and "we know you weren't really trying to ruin the entire world". Everything will carry on in the name of bipartisanship and we'll all limp along until the eventual catastrophic collapse of all the failed, flawed and malicious policies. At which point maybe some who are eager to cover-up, make amends, reach across the aisle and turn a new page will regret not seizing the day for accountability when the opportunity was there. But don't say it can't be done. It can, and it should.
I guess that's why there aremore rational no less idealistic no less naive no more self-serving no more bipartisan conciliatory figures in charge of this country than I.
But this here is the internet, where impassioned calls for what's right and decent in the world go to die.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:28 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Really? When Bushco no longer control the American Military, what stops them from standing trial for their multitude of well documented abuses? They could be arrested in their homes same as you and I, or be forced to free to Paraguay to avoid standing trial. The only thing that stops that is 29% of the electorate and 71% who want to "reach across the aisle" and do things through "bipartisanship". And maybe 10,000 or so bought and paid for media types.
Forgive me, but I fail to see how conciliatory half measures such as letting bygones be bygones and letting everyone off the hook are in the best interest of moving forward in a new direction. I cant advocate a policy where we just allow this administration to stroll off into the sunset and retire to their blood-money estates in Crawford and Wyoming. Ultimately that's what will happen of course. Everyone will say "everything is ok, it's all forgiven" and "we know you weren't really trying to ruin the entire world". Everything will carry on in the name of bipartisanship and we'll all limp along until the eventual catastrophic collapse of all the failed, flawed and malicious policies. At which point maybe some who are eager to cover-up, make amends, reach across the aisle and turn a new page will regret not seizing the day for accountability when the opportunity was there. But don't say it can't be done. It can, and it should.
I guess that's why there are
But this here is the internet, where impassioned calls for what's right and decent in the world go to die.
posted by T.D. Strange at 9:28 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
But this here is the internet, where impassioned calls for what's right and decent in the world go to die Ron Paul is president.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:34 PM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by Krrrlson at 9:34 PM on April 10, 2008 [3 favorites]
The Founders, including James Madison, who is often called “the father of the Constitution,” fully expected Congress to use these powers to rein in the commander in chief. “The constitution supposes, what the History of all Governments demonstrates, that the Executive is the branch of power most interested in war, and most prone to it,” Madison cautioned. “It has accordingly with studied care, vested the question of war in the Legislature.”
What would really give me hope would be if we had three branches of government again. Do any of the Slate articles address this?
posted by lukemeister at 9:41 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
What would really give me hope would be if we had three branches of government again. Do any of the Slate articles address this?
posted by lukemeister at 9:41 PM on April 10, 2008 [1 favorite]
They could be arrested in their homes same as you and I
If he kills a hooker he visits because Laura can't stop shitting blood after he's out of office, yeah, you're right. But for the war crimes he hasn't even been indicted for? Who could bring those charges? (Because we care about charging people for crimes and fair trials, right? Isn't that one of the reasons why we don't like him? And if we make an exception for him because he's a Super Prick, won't his defense lawyer [which we're giving him, right? Because we're better than he is?] say he just made the same exceptions for the terrah'ists?) Who could swoop in past the Secret Service (without killing any of them because, you know, that would cause a bit of a kerfluffle,) and put him on the dock without an uncomfortable amout of aircraft carrier battle groups and cruise missiles disagreeing with them?
No one. Period.
O.J. still plays golf, after all. Sometimes the Bad Guy gets away with it. And if you believe in the rule of law you just have to deal with it and hope karma gets around to them ("Are those Bruno Malis you're wearing in that photo?")
I cant advocate a policy where we just allow this administration to stroll off into the sunset and retire to their blood-money estates in Crawford and Wyoming.
Prepare for a lifetime of disappointment. Didn't Obama say just these week that if you set an impossibly high standard for success you can never hope to meet it? That's what you're doing.
Everyone will say "everything is ok, it's all forgiven"
Eventually they probably will. You'd be a fool not to hope so. Germany is very nice in the summertime, BTW.
It's the not forgetting that's the important part.
But this here is the internet, where impassioned calls for what's right and decent in the world go to die.
It's also a medium where the search for "Diarrhea bukkake" will get over 100,000 hits. (don't Google this phrase and, if you do, you're on your fucking own if you click on the links because I sure as hell didn't.) Disclaimer: I plan to give money to Obama *online* after I get paid next week, but please don't pretend that the same people who click on WANT MORE SMILIE EMOTICONS FOR YOUR EMAILS?!? popups are online because they're looking for all that's good and pure. Or that you can sway any significant number of those folks by venting here.
What would really give me hope would be if we had three branches of government again.
Right on.
posted by Cyrano at 10:27 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
If he kills a hooker he visits because Laura can't stop shitting blood after he's out of office, yeah, you're right. But for the war crimes he hasn't even been indicted for? Who could bring those charges? (Because we care about charging people for crimes and fair trials, right? Isn't that one of the reasons why we don't like him? And if we make an exception for him because he's a Super Prick, won't his defense lawyer [which we're giving him, right? Because we're better than he is?] say he just made the same exceptions for the terrah'ists?) Who could swoop in past the Secret Service (without killing any of them because, you know, that would cause a bit of a kerfluffle,) and put him on the dock without an uncomfortable amout of aircraft carrier battle groups and cruise missiles disagreeing with them?
No one. Period.
O.J. still plays golf, after all. Sometimes the Bad Guy gets away with it. And if you believe in the rule of law you just have to deal with it and hope karma gets around to them ("Are those Bruno Malis you're wearing in that photo?")
I cant advocate a policy where we just allow this administration to stroll off into the sunset and retire to their blood-money estates in Crawford and Wyoming.
Prepare for a lifetime of disappointment. Didn't Obama say just these week that if you set an impossibly high standard for success you can never hope to meet it? That's what you're doing.
Everyone will say "everything is ok, it's all forgiven"
Eventually they probably will. You'd be a fool not to hope so. Germany is very nice in the summertime, BTW.
It's the not forgetting that's the important part.
But this here is the internet, where impassioned calls for what's right and decent in the world go to die.
It's also a medium where the search for "Diarrhea bukkake" will get over 100,000 hits. (don't Google this phrase and, if you do, you're on your fucking own if you click on the links because I sure as hell didn't.) Disclaimer: I plan to give money to Obama *online* after I get paid next week, but please don't pretend that the same people who click on WANT MORE SMILIE EMOTICONS FOR YOUR EMAILS?!? popups are online because they're looking for all that's good and pure. Or that you can sway any significant number of those folks by venting here.
What would really give me hope would be if we had three branches of government again.
Right on.
posted by Cyrano at 10:27 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
Really? When Bushco no longer control the American Military, what stops them from standing trial for their multitude of well documented abuses?
Reagan got the US convicted for international terrorism, and he's a hero now.
posted by pompomtom at 10:39 PM on April 10, 2008
Reagan got the US convicted for international terrorism, and he's a hero now.
posted by pompomtom at 10:39 PM on April 10, 2008
Step 1: Honor the previous President with the level of respect and decorum he deserves.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:19 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:19 PM on April 10, 2008 [2 favorites]
When Bushco no longer control the American Military, what stops them from standing trial for their multitude of well documented abuses?
That's a fundamental reason that Blackwater exists. When Bush & Cheney no longer control the public army, they'll rely on the private one.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:39 AM on April 11, 2008
That's a fundamental reason that Blackwater exists. When Bush & Cheney no longer control the public army, they'll rely on the private one.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 3:39 AM on April 11, 2008
Wait, you mean blind groupthink supporting Obama won't result in us waking up in Jan. 2009 and realizing it was all a dream?
posted by Eideteker at 6:01 AM on April 11, 2008
posted by Eideteker at 6:01 AM on April 11, 2008
> Wait, you mean blind groupthink supporting Obama won't result in us waking up in Jan. 2009 and realizing it was all a dream?
You got sumpthin better? Myself, I've been praying for a meteor to hit DC when both Houses are in full session, but the Obama thing might be the next best, and seems more likely.
"We've met the enemy and they is us" - Pogo
posted by Artful Codger at 6:10 AM on April 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
You got sumpthin better? Myself, I've been praying for a meteor to hit DC when both Houses are in full session, but the Obama thing might be the next best, and seems more likely.
"We've met the enemy and they is us" - Pogo
posted by Artful Codger at 6:10 AM on April 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Laura can't stop shitting blood after he's out of office
Holy cow that's a nasty picture.
posted by nevercalm at 6:34 AM on April 11, 2008
Holy cow that's a nasty picture.
posted by nevercalm at 6:34 AM on April 11, 2008
It doesn't change the fact that Bush STILL sucks
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:45 AM on April 11, 2008
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:45 AM on April 11, 2008
I get the funny feeling that, if Nixon and most of his compatriots had been put to the firing squad, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today.
posted by Orb2069 at 6:46 AM on April 11, 2008
posted by Orb2069 at 6:46 AM on April 11, 2008
Harper's Magazine had a similar "How To Fix America" issue last summer. Well worth reading. Undoing Bush
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 8:24 AM on April 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Fuzzy Monster at 8:24 AM on April 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Understand we'll go hand in hand but we'll walk alone in fear
Tell me: Where do we go from here?
posted by Tehanu at 8:34 AM on April 11, 2008
Tell me: Where do we go from here?
posted by Tehanu at 8:34 AM on April 11, 2008
Holy cow that's a nasty picture.
Psst!!!
Cheap reference, I know...
posted by Cyrano at 9:16 AM on April 11, 2008
Psst!!!
Cheap reference, I know...
posted by Cyrano at 9:16 AM on April 11, 2008
such well-known lefties as Henry Kissinger, Melvin Laird, and Frank Carlucci now dream of a world without nuclear weapons. That gave me hope.
It gave me a reminder that men's testosterone levels decrease with age.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 9:35 AM on April 11, 2008
It gave me a reminder that men's testosterone levels decrease with age.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 9:35 AM on April 11, 2008
Everyone will say "everything is ok, it's all forgiven"
Eventually they probably will. You'd be a fool not to hope so. Germany is very nice in the summertime, BTW.
Of course, they did have those Hague war-crimes trials which may have helped that nation put it's past behind it, so...
posted by quin at 10:21 AM on April 11, 2008
Eventually they probably will. You'd be a fool not to hope so. Germany is very nice in the summertime, BTW.
Of course, they did have those Hague war-crimes trials which may have helped that nation put it's past behind it, so...
posted by quin at 10:21 AM on April 11, 2008
Shouldn't be so hard to prosecute when Bush admits he ordered war crimes.
Just sayin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on April 12, 2008
Just sayin.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:46 PM on April 12, 2008
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posted by T.D. Strange at 6:20 PM on April 10, 2008 [12 favorites]