Comments on: Bamiyan Oil Paintings

Bamiyan Oil Paintings

homunculus — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:20:20 -0800

From Bamiyan Were Made Of Oil, Hundreds Of Years Before Technique Was 'Invented' In Europe. [Via Monkey Filter.] Previous posts on ancient Buddhist murals.

By: Tesseractive

Tesseractive — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:31:20 -0800

Sweet! I've recently been having internal angst about logical positivism versus the merits of traditional knowledge, so it's really nice to see something that shows how contemporary scientific techniques can work in tandem with historiography to validate ancient traditions. Also, it's pretty neat.

By: italktoomuch

italktoomuch — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:42:21 -0800

wow nice.

By: amyms

amyms — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 21:51:49 -0800

The Made Of Oil link is absolutely fascinating. Great post!

By: owhydididoit

owhydididoit — Thu, 24 Apr 2008 22:27:05 -0800

Thanks for the links! A lovely way to wind down before bed...

By: three blind mice

three blind mice — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 01:00:52 -0800

In many European history and art books, oil painting is said to have started in the 15th century in Europe. Those silly racist Europeans who think they did everything first! As it is, historians have to work with the knowledge they have. Had the Afghans built on their success and gone on to invent a printing press, produce a Mona Lisa, or even kept written records of their accomplishments perhaps European text books would have not had to wait until 2008 to learn the truth.

By: DenOfSizer

DenOfSizer — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 03:54:58 -0800

It seems as if the next steps are clear: get out there and do more synchrotron analysis! There are still other extant samples of the Gandhara school of Buddhist painting and architecture, but they are unfortunately in areas that are in peril either politically or naturally.

By: Faze

Faze — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:35:23 -0800

The European cave artists of Lascaux mixed their pigments with spit or animal fat 20,000 years ago. Animal fat, in case you haven't had your cholesterol checked lately, is oil. So get this, buddy, our Christian European cavemen were doing oil painting well before your Afghan Bhuddists were doing their heavily outlined, Herge-influenced cartoons. Too bad this headline writer had to steal the joy the whole world might have taken in the discovery of these pictures by turning it into a sophomoric sneer against "so-called Western culture."

By: DU

DU — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:53:59 -0800

Those silly racist Europeans who think they did everything first! The wicked flee when no man pursueth.

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:35:21 -0800

There are only so many ways to make paint.

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:02:19 -0800

Oil on canvas with a hair brush was European. It replaced panel painting as the dominant form. There was more to it than just the fact oil was used. Because canvas is cheaper and lighter and easier to make and work with it created a flood of new painting commissions, the ability to experiment more, to go beyond religious subjects, to easily trade and sell works of art. Oil on a cave wall is as Faze points out very old, and it's non-portable, limited where it can exist, limited in existence and influence.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 06:51:38 -0800

How long before Technique was invented, anyway?

By: Pastabagel

Pastabagel — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 08:01:45 -0800

Hundreds Of Years Before Technique Was 'Invented' In Europe. This is unnecessary, as I don't ever recall reading or hearing a claim that oil paint was invented in Europe. What Europe most certainly did invent was a painting style in which the depictions were made as realistic as possible, which in turn demanded the use of a slower drying paints. There's a strange glee that some people take when it is discovered that something wasn't invented in Europe but instead was invented centuries earlier in some other culture. So what? The Chinese invented gunpowder in the 800's. Seven hundred years later they still had gunpowder. The Europeans learned about gunpowder in the 1200's. Seven hundred years later they were putting people on rockets and sending them to the moon. There are myriad examples of this. Baghdad batteries, paper money in China, compasses, calendars, etc. But no generators, no central banking, co coordinate-based mapping or navigation. None of the things that come fifty or a hundred generations into exploring the technology after the initial discovery or invention. Culture is not a collection of claims to priority, nor should cultures be compared on the basis of which one had what inventions first. It is very easy to invent the first one of anything. You want a battery? Jam a coper nail and a zinc nail into an orange and you have a battery. The Afghans had oil paint first. So? Someone in Afghanistan invented it, but evidently not enough people in that culture cared about the invention to pass that knowledge along down through the years. It was so lost to history that when European painters decide they need better slow drying paint, someone has to reinvent oil paint independently. When that guy does it, apparently a lot of people care and start copying his invention, because it shows up in hundreds if not thousands of paintings shortly thereafter. So if you must compare the invention of oil paint in Afghanistan or in Europe, which contribution is more important? The contribution that was forgotten by its culture, or the contribution that was embrace and spread throughout its culture?

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:09:20 -0800

The Europeans learned about gunpowder in the 1200's. Seven hundred years later they were putting people on rockets and sending them to the moon. Europeans landed on the moon? I must have missed that.

By: teg

teg — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 09:44:36 -0800

Tintin landed on the moon in 1953.

By: DenOfSizer

DenOfSizer — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:13:32 -0800

And but plus the Chinese invented paper, which is also important to art sometimes.

By: alexwoods

alexwoods — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 10:27:37 -0800

Pastabagel, thank you for typing what I was thinking. Well said.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:04:27 -0800

Too bad this headline writer had to steal the joy the whole world might have taken in the discovery of these pictures by turning it into a sophomoric sneer against "so-called Western culture." You know, the headline really didn't steal the joy for me. I hardly even considered it. But I guess it does give snarkers an excuse to do what they love best, so that's just more joy for everyone.

By: LobsterMitten

LobsterMitten — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:51:58 -0800

cool.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:13:55 -0800

Europeans landed on the moon? I must have missed that. Werner von Braun put those men on the moon.

By: R. Mutt

R. Mutt — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 18:37:47 -0800

Werner von Braun, as a naturalized U.S. citizen, put those men on the moon. For some reason he felt the need to leave Europe, go figure.

By: Grimgrin

Grimgrin — Fri, 25 Apr 2008 20:03:51 -0800

Some Europeans might have wanted a word with Von Braun about the Mittelwerk and the ultimate destination of the V2.

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 07:55:39 -0800

Cool find! First, not first, bfd. Oil paint was in use prior to when we previously thought, that's a neat discovery.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 04 May 2008 18:14:05 -0800

Hidden jewel of Afghan culture: Architectural historian and broadcaster Dan Cruickshank treks into the mountains of western Afghanistan to visit and film an architectural treasure, the leaning minaret of Jam.