Comments on: Simulating a Simulacra- China does Orange County

Simulating a Simulacra- China does Orange County

BuddhaInABucket — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:12:29 -0800

Simulating a Simulacra- China does Orange County

By: dersins

dersins — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:22:24 -0800

As China industrializes, many fear that the country is making the same environmental mistakes the United States made a century ago, worrying that the planet cannot sustain such an onslaught from its most populous nation. WE. ARE. SO. FUCKED.

By: brownpau

brownpau — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:22:40 -0800

Looking at just the photos, "Orange County" would pass almost perfectly for a U.S. cul-de-sac-type suburb but for just one thing: the wide, walkable sidewalks. You don't get sidewalks like that in your average automobile-obsessed suburban American neighborhood. Quite often you don't get sidewalks at all.

By: dersins

dersins — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:23:19 -0800

Btw, fascinating article. Thanks for the post.

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:29:30 -0800

out of curiosity, what did chinese suburbs look like before? I guess I've only really ever seen rural or urban landscapes in their movies. also: DOOM!

By: The Power Nap

The Power Nap — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:31:30 -0800

So, we have a culture that is apropriating our culture; our culture which is apropriating their culture. Wonderful, let's all watch this snake eat its tail. Here's to you, Douglas Hofstadter, you magnificant bastard.

By: contessa

contessa — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:32:06 -0800

The best part is at the end:

In Orange County, when I ask a resident, Tong Xiaobo, about the appeal of the development, he explains that the American lifestyle represents health and freedom. What about it, exactly, is healthy, I ask. In America, after all, we associate suburban sprawl with the sedentary lifestyle that has led to our national obesity epidemic. The healthy aspect of the design that stood out, Tong explains, was having a bathroom next to the bedroom. Traditional Chinese homes have only one bathroom, shared by all the residents. Orange County's homes boast lavish bathrooms adjoining the master bedroom complete with his-and-hers sinks and a Jacuzzi. Tong extolled the additional bathroom as "an innovation in construction and design [that] represents modern health." He then lit up a cigarette. Having explained what he meant by "health," I pressed him to explain what he meant by "freedom." He simply ignored the question.

Lulz.

By: HighTechUnderpants

HighTechUnderpants — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:33:50 -0800

Great article. I hate Southern California. I can hardly wait to leave.

By: jaimev

jaimev — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:37:48 -0800

You don't get sidewalks like that in your average automobile-obsessed suburban American neighborhood. Actually, in my part of Orange County (Irvine), new developments are quite walkable with a good interconnection of walking paths and trails. For me, the differences I saw are that the Chinese OC appears to lack any sort of palm trees, neighboring homes have *too* much variety between them, their grass turns brown, and their homeowner association might have paramilitary support.

By: Brocktoon

Brocktoon — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:42:39 -0800

Ah, I see, from the description and photos, this is really more like South County. This is really not what Santa Ana (the largest city in the OC), Costa Mesa, and Huntington Beach look like. Believe it or not, there are many, many people in the county who do not subscribe to hyper-consumerism, and despise H2s just as much as everyone else.

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:43:22 -0800

Believe it or not, there are many, many people in the county who do not subscribe to hyper-consumerism, and despise H2s just as much as everyone else. I don't believe it!

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:47:55 -0800

This is marvelous. Now all those jackasses who like to live in unsustainable green-lawn developments, drive ridiculous oversized vehicles and have the government tell them exactly what to do every day have a place they can all go to leave me alone.

By: designbot

designbot — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:50:39 -0800

Oh, China. Why the OC? Orange County housing developments are showcases for some of the ugliest, boxiest, most uninspired, oversized, depressing, overpriced, and flimsily-constructed homes in history. God hates stucco.

By: BuddhaInABucket

BuddhaInABucket — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:53:19 -0800

shmegegge: believe it... the cultural stereotype of "The OC" really does only apply to the southern end of the county. The central coastal, and north ends are much more diverse both in terms of income and ethnicity, and most of Old Orange actually dates back to pre-1920, and is wonderfully charming to walk through. There is, though, a pretty clear dividing line (I'd say it's anything south of Jamboree Road) where the county starts being decidedly Orange County and no longer greater Los Angeles. Also, you should know that Priuses greatly outnumber Hummers here.

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:56:23 -0800

These horrid "Villa" communities have been growing in China for several years now. They mostly sit empty and incomplete. Mainly because they are real estate fraud schemes to start with.

By: weston

weston — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:59:26 -0800

At Orange County, California-style ranch houses sit alongside English Tudors and a French-style formal garden complete with stately fountains (turned off for the winter). The street signs of weathered wood held together with rusty spikes conjure the Old West of Durango while the community clubhouse, called the Rive Gauche Town Center, has a mansard roof typical of a French country estate. The totem poles inside recall the Pacific Northwest and the fireplace mantlepiece is carved in the shape of English-language books, including Hamlet, Macbeth, and the erroneously titled Moby-Dock. Developers make these kinds of mistakes in the US all the time. Not these exact mistakes, but clueless copying of diverse design elements and "community features" into a barely congruous pastiche. It's just easier for us to see when there's Engrish involved. And yet, as much as I love to hate these manufactured neighborhoods, I really like Orange County and Los Angeles. Not all of either of them, but enough of both that I find myself sometimes thinking about moving back when I visit. The traffic is horrible and there can be something shiny and shallow about people and there are miles of development tiled with cookie cutter architecture. But there's more to these places. A week and a half ago I was sitting on the outdoor patio of an Cuban restaurant off the plaza in Orange, eating large quantities of rather good food in the company of friends as the sun went down on a perfect spring evening, thinking about how I'd incorrectly let my view of the place slide into a sort of vague bubbling discontent at bland developments and suburbia while I visited some "real" cities like New York and Boston. And I have nothing bad to say about NY and Boston -- I still think they're amazing places, I'd still love to live in a real walkable city someday. But thinking about the experiences I've had in Southern California belies the idea that it's simply a sterile place. Communities grow there too. The enemy isn't necessarily suburbia, I think. It's the manufacturing and sale of communities, when they really have to be grown.

By: docpops

docpops — Fri, 09 May 2008 13:59:41 -0800

When I used to visit my sister-in-law in Mission Viejo, I'd head out each morning for some coffee and a little peace. Heading home, I could usually find her cul-de-sac, but on three occasions I parked in the wrong driveway and once walked into the wrong house before figuring out where I was.

By: ornate insect

ornate insect — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:01:38 -0800

For what it's worth, I saw almost identical photos of a similar Chinese suburb five or ten years ago, so I'm suprised this is news to anyone. Did people think folks in China and India and much of the world outside America were all living in grass huts or only in urban highrises? These kinds of prefab suburbs exist now pretty much everywhere, to greater and lesser degrees. And since most of the appliances in our own suburban homes are made in China, it makes a kind of poetic and economic sense for them to develop a similar lust among the newly rich and upwardly mobile for the very consumerist dream that they have furnished us with in their massive manufacturing export industries. Maybe they can start importing workers from Central America to water their lawns. How does one say Wl-Mart in Cantonese anyway? And while I agree that it is indeed disturbing that the worst and least sustainable elements of the American lifestyle are being adopted in China, who exactly can blame them? It really is a case of "pot, meet kettle" to expect them to develop the very society that we ourselves have failed to develop. Rather than wringing our hands, perhaps we should focus on leading by example and changing the ways of our own society?

By: Keith Talent

Keith Talent — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:04:41 -0800

Heaven forbid that the Chinese want what 98% of North Americans want. The shock.

By: jal0021

jal0021 — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:05:01 -0800

A few of what I assume to be these developments on Google Maps: here, here, and here. The giant entry gates are a nice touch.

By: aramaic

aramaic — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:08:58 -0800

who exactly can blame them? I wouldn't say it's a matter of "blame" per se. It's more like walking off a cliff, lying broken at the base of it, and saying to the folks back up top "hey, guys, I walked off that cliff there, you might wanna watch out for it" ...then watching them walk right off the cliff anyway, and when they're lying broken on the ground next to you, they turn and blame you for having the temerity to warn them in the first place because goddammit they can walk off any cliff they damn well feel like! Which is, of course, true. Doesn't mean it's a good idea though.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:15:01 -0800

The journalist Ted Conover tsk-tsked in The New York Times that while China rushes to build "new gated communities, new themed enclaves, all for the car-owning class, [what is] conspicuously missing [is] a corresponding investment in mass transit, in public spaces, and public access." And yet, On the other [hand], as of now, Harvard's Oliver notes, "the most commonly seen residential development is several-story-high buildings on newly urbanized land," which are invariably served by a bus route if not a subway line. In short, it's a far cry from Southern California.

By: jaimev

jaimev — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:21:42 -0800

I wonder if this picture of a suburb in Shenyang is one of those OC replicas? That's more representative of the cookie-cutter sameness of newer developments in the real OC. [via]

By: Pollomacho

Pollomacho — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:27:23 -0800

A few of what I assume to be these developments on Google Maps: here, here, and here. I wonder if this picture of a suburb in Shenyang is one of those OC replicas? I can confirm that you are both on the right track.

By: Librarygeek

Librarygeek — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:31:44 -0800

Pollomacho These horrid "Villa" communities have been growing in China for several years now. They mostly sit empty and incomplete. Mainly because they are real estate fraud schemes to start with. With the sub prime crisis, there are now neighborhoods of homes that look like this *here* that are empty. How crazy. What do you mean that they are real estate fraud schemes?

By: ornate insect

ornate insect — Fri, 09 May 2008 14:37:40 -0800

aramaic--everyone on this thread is using a computer, and there's a very good chance that the bulk of the hardware and software in that computer was manufactured in China. I consider myself a progressive, but also an occasional realist. The realist in me says that expecting China to somehow take a path that we have failed to take is not only unrealistic, but also on some level intrisically hypocritical. Furthermore, even China has ratified the Kyoto Protocol (although they are obligated only to report emissions), and their fossil fuel economy is no better or worse than our own. I think the concern here is somewhat misdirected: we need to look in the mirror.

By: PM

PM — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:00:11 -0800

China has also done Paris.

By: jack_mo

jack_mo — Fri, 09 May 2008 15:19:30 -0800

Previously: Thames Town, an English village styled gated community in Shanghai. Funnily enough, when I posted about that place a couple of years back, one commenter asked "What, no Americavile with tract homes with SUVs parked outside?". But even then, you could live in Chinese Canada, Chinese 17th Century France (the coolest, surely?!), Chinese Napa Valley, Chinese Orange County....

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:16:06 -0800

The realist in me says that expecting China to somehow take a path that we have failed to take is not only unrealistic, but also on some level intrisically hypocritical. I disagree. They have the advantage of looking at what happened and learning from history. Why in gods names would they wish to make the same dumb damn mistakes we did? They could leapfrog the entire error-riddled era of stupid design and go straight to something better.

By: Parasite Unseen

Parasite Unseen — Fri, 09 May 2008 17:57:52 -0800

I wonder if their Orange County is going to be plastered with American flags and Bush/Cheney bumper stickers like the California version is. Probably not, but a man can dream.

By: hurdy gurdy girl

hurdy gurdy girl — Fri, 09 May 2008 18:10:38 -0800

From the article jack_mo linked to: Yet, what is perhaps most distinctive about these developments is not the sprawl itself, but the way it looks. Vancouver Forest, for example, is a new subdivision of homes that mimics a typical neighborhood in British Columbia. It was built by Canadian architects, using Canadian materials to create a mini Canada. Well I hate to break it to them, but if it REALLY looks like a typical subdivision in British Columbia, ESPECIALLY in the suburbs of Vancouver, then it won't look any different from the "Orange County" neighbourhood pictured in the original link. Oh, and "forest" my ass--the first thing those developers do is cut down all the mature trees. Later, they plant a few token spindly little saplings. Hideous.

By: mkb

mkb — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:47:09 -0800

Life imitates art.

By: uosuaq

uosuaq — Fri, 09 May 2008 19:51:53 -0800

Simulacrum.

By: signal

signal — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:56:06 -0800

People who have recently raised their income live in kitschy, inauthentic houses and neighborhoods. This is news, how?

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:21:27 -0800

China is a simulacrum of a simulacrum. The Egyptians were the last originals.

By: Termite

Termite — Fri, 09 May 2008 21:49:18 -0800

Shitbullacrum.

By: hortense

hortense — Fri, 09 May 2008 22:22:41 -0800

The polite thing to do is to thank China for the compliment. they like us! we should be nice to them.

By: dansdata

dansdata — Sat, 10 May 2008 01:44:43 -0800

Oh, and "forest" my ass--the first thing those developers do is cut down all the mature trees. All the best housing developments have a name, like "Tranquil Glade" or "Pine Hills" or something, which tells you what used to be there before the houses went up.