The White House Knows Best
May 11, 2008 11:22 AM Subscribe
Last week the second largest US physicians group endorsed medical marijuana. On Friday the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy issued a report which explains why they are wrong.
I see John Walters, drug policy director, holds a BA from Michigan State University's James Madison College and an MA from the University of Toronto. Is that like an MD or is that even better?
posted by crapmatic at 11:29 AM on May 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by crapmatic at 11:29 AM on May 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
They also endorse a form of universal health care coverage, because it leads to better quality care for most, and best prevention of disease.
posted by Brian B. at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2008
posted by Brian B. at 11:31 AM on May 11, 2008
What Brain B is saying is that nobody will listen to those pinkos.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:32 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:32 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
I love drug laws.
No, really. They're so brilliantly designed. Given the enormous percentage of the populace who either uses or has used The Illegals, they leave a large segment of the population feeling guilty, another chunk feeling guilty for not turning them in, and then a bunch of people suspicious of the rest.
Because these are laws regarding physical substances, all kinds of lovely search abilities are enabled to carry out enforcement of laws against this terrible crime. Because these are substances that have any kind of mind-altering effect, any manner of poppycock can be attributed to the effects - witness our fear of the dreaded cocainized nigger (a term that has lost none of its non-existent charm since the olden days), who will cheerfully beginstealing our property, the virginity of raping white women. Because lawyers cost money, it's much easier to put a boot on the neck of the poor. It's a great way to seize property, protect our fragile pharmaceutical industries, and otherwise bypass basic civil rights. And it satisfies that nagging Puritan itch that someone, somewhere, must be having fun, and you have to do something about it.
I love drug laws because they so often tie up in a neat little package a good portion of the things I think have gone horribly wrong with this country.
posted by adipocere at 11:37 AM on May 11, 2008 [37 favorites]
No, really. They're so brilliantly designed. Given the enormous percentage of the populace who either uses or has used The Illegals, they leave a large segment of the population feeling guilty, another chunk feeling guilty for not turning them in, and then a bunch of people suspicious of the rest.
Because these are laws regarding physical substances, all kinds of lovely search abilities are enabled to carry out enforcement of laws against this terrible crime. Because these are substances that have any kind of mind-altering effect, any manner of poppycock can be attributed to the effects - witness our fear of the dreaded cocainized nigger (a term that has lost none of its non-existent charm since the olden days), who will cheerfully begin
I love drug laws because they so often tie up in a neat little package a good portion of the things I think have gone horribly wrong with this country.
posted by adipocere at 11:37 AM on May 11, 2008 [37 favorites]
Well, even if Mr. Walters' claims were true, the ACP only wants the drug rescheduled, allowing for research and use under a doctor's prescription. You'll find many many prescription drugs with far more the exact same side effects claimed by Mr. Walters only far more powerful. So yeah : Bush's guy is full of shit.
posted by jeffburdges at 11:39 AM on May 11, 2008
posted by jeffburdges at 11:39 AM on May 11, 2008
Hey, I'm support or troops pal! Any day now they'll find the weapons of mass destruction that medical marijuana hid in the desert.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:45 AM on May 11, 2008
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 11:45 AM on May 11, 2008
I'm in favor of medical LSD, Ketamine and MDMA, as well. Then I could say I was doing cutting edge medical research and not just partying a lot.
posted by empath at 11:47 AM on May 11, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by empath at 11:47 AM on May 11, 2008 [3 favorites]
So basically, we can't legalize medical marijuana because the children could steal it. 'Cause they're not doing that already, nope.
posted by bettafish at 11:48 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by bettafish at 11:48 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
A teen who has been depressed at some point in the past year is more than twice as likely to have used marijuana as teens who have not reported being depressed — 25 percent compared with 12 percent, said the report by the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.
And what about the teens who have not been depressed at some time in the past year?
Bet more than half are holding.
posted by three blind mice at 11:49 AM on May 11, 2008
And what about the teens who have not been depressed at some time in the past year?
Bet more than half are holding.
posted by three blind mice at 11:49 AM on May 11, 2008
Gee, I wonder why somebody who is depressed would want to use marijuana. They're implying that marijuana use is causing the depression, when it's obviously the other way around.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:59 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by joannemerriam at 11:59 AM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Medical marijuana user dies for lack of liver transplant
posted by homunculus at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by homunculus at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
On Friday the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy issued a report which explains why they are wrong.
I don't see any connection between the ACP endorsing medical marijuana and the government report about correlations between depression and other mental illnesses and marijuana use of teenagers. What is the point of framing this as if there were some connection betwen the two?
posted by ssg at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't see any connection between the ACP endorsing medical marijuana and the government report about correlations between depression and other mental illnesses and marijuana use of teenagers. What is the point of framing this as if there were some connection betwen the two?
posted by ssg at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
An individual who has read the following statistic is more than twice as likely as someone who hasn't to be depressed:
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population, but it has a quarter of the world's prisoners?
posted by found missing at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population, but it has a quarter of the world's prisoners?
posted by found missing at 12:05 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yeah, if I'm suffering from leukemia god forbid I might get hooked on marijuana. It might lead me down the dark path of abating some of my pain and nausea. Thanks, guys!
Does the government not see the disconnect between vague statements about teenagers smoking pot and easing a person's pain during a long and painful battle with a debilitating disease?
Pretty sure if Laura Bush came down with Parkinson's somebody might change his tune about stem-cell research, too.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Does the government not see the disconnect between vague statements about teenagers smoking pot and easing a person's pain during a long and painful battle with a debilitating disease?
Pretty sure if Laura Bush came down with Parkinson's somebody might change his tune about stem-cell research, too.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Jesus, if we're gonna start pointing fingers, why are cigarettes legal again?
posted by phaedon at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by phaedon at 12:10 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wow. I was definitely a depressed youth about 5 years before I ever touched the stuff. I'm not sure it helps depression so much as it delays/displaces negative feelings for the duration of use.
posted by sunshinesky at 12:14 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by sunshinesky at 12:14 PM on May 11, 2008
And teens who smoke pot at least once a month over a yearlong period are three times more likely to have suicidal thoughts than nonusers, it said.
Huh. In the past, I have smoked at most maybe once a month. Three times more likely to have suicidal thoughts? Hmm. No suicidal thoughts here. Maybe that's because I turned 20 the other week? Yeah. That must be it. But you people who are still teenagers, with no history of depression and an all around happy life, DON'T SMOKE YOU'LL KILL YOURSELVES THE GOVERNMENT IS HERE TO HELP YOU ARE WELCOME.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 12:30 PM on May 11, 2008
Huh. In the past, I have smoked at most maybe once a month. Three times more likely to have suicidal thoughts? Hmm. No suicidal thoughts here. Maybe that's because I turned 20 the other week? Yeah. That must be it. But you people who are still teenagers, with no history of depression and an all around happy life, DON'T SMOKE YOU'LL KILL YOURSELVES THE GOVERNMENT IS HERE TO HELP YOU ARE WELCOME.
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 12:30 PM on May 11, 2008
According to that "Pro-Con" website linked a few posts down on the front page, the White House would get a five-star "theoretical credibility ranking" on this, being "government statistics and reports", whereas the American Council of Physicians would get a single star, being, uh, "Organization/VIP/Other".
No, they wouldn't get four stars because they're "Physicians". The site gave one star to the AMA and the APHA on this very issue.
posted by Flunkie at 12:32 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
No, they wouldn't get four stars because they're "Physicians". The site gave one star to the AMA and the APHA on this very issue.
posted by Flunkie at 12:32 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
Pretty sure if Laura Bush came down with Parkinson's somebody might change his tune about stem-cell research, too.
No, no, not at all. Perhaps the little ditty he hums to himself might change, but the one he sings in public? Note for note, not a whit of difference. Maybe a little louder, especially in between trips flying her to China for stem cell therapies.
posted by adipocere at 12:32 PM on May 11, 2008
No, no, not at all. Perhaps the little ditty he hums to himself might change, but the one he sings in public? Note for note, not a whit of difference. Maybe a little louder, especially in between trips flying her to China for stem cell therapies.
posted by adipocere at 12:32 PM on May 11, 2008
Can't have industrial hemp either. Who needs a stronger economy or better medical care? Won't someone think of the children?
posted by tinatiga at 12:37 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by tinatiga at 12:37 PM on May 11, 2008
Bruce Mirken, communications director for the Marijuana Policy Project, an organization that advocates the decriminalization of marijuana, called the study "an absolutely dishonest report, deliberately confusing correlation with causation."
posted by matt_od at 12:57 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by matt_od at 12:57 PM on May 11, 2008
Time for a re-write.
"Depression, teens and marijuana are a dangerous mix that can lead to dependency, mental illness or suicidal thoughts, according to a White House report being released Friday."
Should read: depression, teens, and anything are a dangerous mix etc. etc.
"Marijuana is a more consequential substance of abuse than our culture has treated it in the last 20 years," said John Walters, director of the office.
"Our prisons are not yet overflowing enough with non-violent "offenders", and we haven't yet sold enough alcohol and cigarettes, to consider ending our jihad just yet," said John Waters, director of Pink Flamingos.
Smoking marijuana can lead to more serious problems, Walters said in an interview.
Smoking marijuana can lead to more serious problems, Waters said, and we're dedicated to rescuing teens from munchies, giggles, and bloodshot eyes through long-term incarceration and lifelong felony records that, with luck, will destroy their chances for employment, education, and productive lives.
"It's somewhat Russian roulette. There are so many factors, emotional, psychological, biological. You can't predict the experimentation and how it will impact a kid."
"Poor education, lack of dependable health care, living next door to a nuclear plant, and sending the kid to a war zone, however, are acceptable due to decades of research on the part of our government."
"This very week the British government's official scientific advisers on illegal drugs issued a report saying they are 'unconvinced that there is a causal relationship between the use of cannabis and any affective disorder,' such as depression, he said.
And were similarly ignored by Gordon Brown.
Overall, marijuana use among teens has decreased 25 percent since 2001, down to about 2.3 million kids who used pot at least once a month, the drug control office said.
But it's still addictive! Really! Because we said so!
"It's not something you look the other way about when your teen starts appearing careless about their grooming, withdrawing from the family, losing interest in daily activities," Walters said. "Find out what's wrong."
These symptoms could ONLY be caused by drug use. Marijuana also causes teens' buttocks to shrivel and fall off, resulting in the tragedy of sagging pants.
"Schedule I is a term used to describe drugs such as LSD and heroin."
And 'food' is a term to describe edibles such as apples and raw meat.
posted by crazylegs at 1:19 PM on May 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
"Depression, teens and marijuana are a dangerous mix that can lead to dependency, mental illness or suicidal thoughts, according to a White House report being released Friday."
Should read: depression, teens, and anything are a dangerous mix etc. etc.
"Marijuana is a more consequential substance of abuse than our culture has treated it in the last 20 years," said John Walters, director of the office.
"Our prisons are not yet overflowing enough with non-violent "offenders", and we haven't yet sold enough alcohol and cigarettes, to consider ending our jihad just yet," said John Waters, director of Pink Flamingos.
Smoking marijuana can lead to more serious problems, Walters said in an interview.
Smoking marijuana can lead to more serious problems, Waters said, and we're dedicated to rescuing teens from munchies, giggles, and bloodshot eyes through long-term incarceration and lifelong felony records that, with luck, will destroy their chances for employment, education, and productive lives.
"It's somewhat Russian roulette. There are so many factors, emotional, psychological, biological. You can't predict the experimentation and how it will impact a kid."
"Poor education, lack of dependable health care, living next door to a nuclear plant, and sending the kid to a war zone, however, are acceptable due to decades of research on the part of our government."
"This very week the British government's official scientific advisers on illegal drugs issued a report saying they are 'unconvinced that there is a causal relationship between the use of cannabis and any affective disorder,' such as depression, he said.
And were similarly ignored by Gordon Brown.
Overall, marijuana use among teens has decreased 25 percent since 2001, down to about 2.3 million kids who used pot at least once a month, the drug control office said.
But it's still addictive! Really! Because we said so!
"It's not something you look the other way about when your teen starts appearing careless about their grooming, withdrawing from the family, losing interest in daily activities," Walters said. "Find out what's wrong."
These symptoms could ONLY be caused by drug use. Marijuana also causes teens' buttocks to shrivel and fall off, resulting in the tragedy of sagging pants.
"Schedule I is a term used to describe drugs such as LSD and heroin."
And 'food' is a term to describe edibles such as apples and raw meat.
posted by crazylegs at 1:19 PM on May 11, 2008 [4 favorites]
We can't trust the doctors, because they, uh, know stuff, and stuff. Knowledge kills; that's why we have ideologues running things now. Be grateful, shut the hell up, and get back to work - we have wars to pay for.
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:30 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by Benny Andajetz at 1:30 PM on May 11, 2008
I'm about to endorse medical marijuana in 4 minutes.
posted by basicchannel at 2:27 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by basicchannel at 2:27 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
On Friday the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy issued a report which explains why says they are wrong.
"Explains why" is not a concept applicable to the Bush Administration.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 3:57 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
"Explains why" is not a concept applicable to the Bush Administration.
posted by aeschenkarnos at 3:57 PM on May 11, 2008 [2 favorites]
This must be the most amazingly peaceful nation in human history, because I could swear that in any other nation or at any other time in history, there would be a fucking underground army ambushing and sniping the sad motherfuckers responsible for all of this.
posted by localroger at 4:27 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by localroger at 4:27 PM on May 11, 2008
Government reports about such things should be assigned reading in statistics classes nationwide, since they're such great examples of confusing correlation with causation.
posted by goatdog at 4:41 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by goatdog at 4:41 PM on May 11, 2008
there would be a fucking underground army ambushing and sniping the sad motherfuckers responsible for all of this
Oh, but there is, localroger. Don't worry, they'll get around to the revolution just as soon as they finish watching all the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episodes another fifteen or sixteen more times.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:43 PM on May 11, 2008
Oh, but there is, localroger. Don't worry, they'll get around to the revolution just as soon as they finish watching all the Aqua Teen Hunger Force episodes another fifteen or sixteen more times.
posted by Sys Rq at 4:43 PM on May 11, 2008
homunculus said "Medical marijuana user dies for lack of liver transplant"
Pardon my language but this is so fucking tragic. I read a lot of crazy shit online but this story just breaks my heart right now.
I can't believe the University of Washington Medical Center transplant committee can sleep at night knowing what they did to that man. They killed him. And over what?
I hope they suffer a thousand times what Garon did before he died. I only say things this grave when I mean them, and I do.
posted by loiseau at 4:50 PM on May 11, 2008
Pardon my language but this is so fucking tragic. I read a lot of crazy shit online but this story just breaks my heart right now.
I can't believe the University of Washington Medical Center transplant committee can sleep at night knowing what they did to that man. They killed him. And over what?
I hope they suffer a thousand times what Garon did before he died. I only say things this grave when I mean them, and I do.
posted by loiseau at 4:50 PM on May 11, 2008
homunculus said: Medical marijuana user dies for lack of liver transplant
That story is obscene. Surely we're missing some fact? Surely they didn't really just let this man die because he used medical marijuana, which is how the story makes it seem?
I'm with loiseau, may his agonies haunt them all for the rest of their lives.
posted by dejah420 at 5:38 PM on May 11, 2008
Yeah, I did a minor debunk of this 'study" and the crappy media coverage it received here
It was too tedious to go through all the stupidity in it. I really don't understand why the media feels compelled to buy into this nonsense. I mean, two seconds of googling comes up with the studies showing that the government is distorting the science-- and then they wonder why readers are skeptical...
posted by Maias at 6:04 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
It was too tedious to go through all the stupidity in it. I really don't understand why the media feels compelled to buy into this nonsense. I mean, two seconds of googling comes up with the studies showing that the government is distorting the science-- and then they wonder why readers are skeptical...
posted by Maias at 6:04 PM on May 11, 2008 [1 favorite]
This must be the most amazingly peaceful nation in human history, because I could swear that in any other nation or at any other time in history, there would be a fucking underground army ambushing and sniping the sad motherfuckers responsible for all of this.
There would be, if this had any negative effect on the ease of getting pot.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:25 PM on May 11, 2008
There would be, if this had any negative effect on the ease of getting pot.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:25 PM on May 11, 2008
the ACP didn't exactly endorse medical marijuana. they said that there should be research into it, and that scientific study of it should be strongly considered. these are very different statements. Here is their position paper. [PDF link]
posted by ruwan at 8:56 PM on May 11, 2008
posted by ruwan at 8:56 PM on May 11, 2008
Depression, teens and marijuana are a dangerous mix that can lead to dependency, mental illness or suicidal thoughts, according to a White House report being released Friday.
Easy to fix. Ban teens now!
crapmatic writes "I see John Walters, drug policy director, holds a BA from Michigan State University's James Madison College and an MA from the University of Toronto. Is that like an MD or is that even better?"
Can't speak for the U of Toronto, but back at State I always referred to James Madison as the "College of Pointless Debate". It's a stepping stone for those on their way into politics or law school, basically.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:03 AM on May 12, 2008
Easy to fix. Ban teens now!
crapmatic writes "I see John Walters, drug policy director, holds a BA from Michigan State University's James Madison College and an MA from the University of Toronto. Is that like an MD or is that even better?"
Can't speak for the U of Toronto, but back at State I always referred to James Madison as the "College of Pointless Debate". It's a stepping stone for those on their way into politics or law school, basically.
posted by caution live frogs at 6:03 AM on May 12, 2008
While the drop is encouraging, Walters appealed to parents to recognize signs of possible drug use and depression.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't alcohol a much greater risk with regard to being used by depressed teens? It's far easier to get, and the penalties for having it are considerably lower. Plus, alcohol has an actual-honest-to-god-direct-correlation to depression.
Besides, I'm getting really sick of these "won't someone please think of the children" defenses against things that ostensibly shouldn't have been available to kids in the first place. What does doctors suggesting that medical marijuana should be more available have anything to do with children?
Why should other people's inability to control their kids affect my ability to control my pain if I have a condition where pot would help?
posted by quin at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2008
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't alcohol a much greater risk with regard to being used by depressed teens? It's far easier to get, and the penalties for having it are considerably lower. Plus, alcohol has an actual-honest-to-god-direct-correlation to depression.
Besides, I'm getting really sick of these "won't someone please think of the children" defenses against things that ostensibly shouldn't have been available to kids in the first place. What does doctors suggesting that medical marijuana should be more available have anything to do with children?
Why should other people's inability to control their kids affect my ability to control my pain if I have a condition where pot would help?
posted by quin at 1:44 PM on May 12, 2008
ruwan, not quite.
From the position paper,
Position 4: ACP urges review of marijuana’s status as a schedule I controlled substance and its reclassification into a more appropriate schedule, given the scientific evidence regarding marijuana’s safety and efficacy in some clinical conditions.
Position 5: ACP strongly supports exemption from federal criminal prosecution; civil liability; or professional sanctioning, such as loss of licensure or credentialing, for physicians who prescribe or dispense medical marijuana in accordance with state law. Similarly, ACP strongly urges protection from criminal or civil penalties for patients who use medical marijuana as permitted under state laws.
(4) implies that the ACP believes that marijuana has medical value "given the scientific evidence..", otherwise there's no need to call for rescheduling.
(5) asserts that despite the CSA's rejection of marijuana's medical value, the Feds should treat medical marijuana as valid (even before the results of the advocated scientific research are available i.e. a working presumption of medical validity).
These two positions, especially (4), aren't compatible with an agnostic position on medical marijuana.
posted by daksya at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2008
From the position paper,
Position 4: ACP urges review of marijuana’s status as a schedule I controlled substance and its reclassification into a more appropriate schedule, given the scientific evidence regarding marijuana’s safety and efficacy in some clinical conditions.
Position 5: ACP strongly supports exemption from federal criminal prosecution; civil liability; or professional sanctioning, such as loss of licensure or credentialing, for physicians who prescribe or dispense medical marijuana in accordance with state law. Similarly, ACP strongly urges protection from criminal or civil penalties for patients who use medical marijuana as permitted under state laws.
(4) implies that the ACP believes that marijuana has medical value "given the scientific evidence..", otherwise there's no need to call for rescheduling.
(5) asserts that despite the CSA's rejection of marijuana's medical value, the Feds should treat medical marijuana as valid (even before the results of the advocated scientific research are available i.e. a working presumption of medical validity).
These two positions, especially (4), aren't compatible with an agnostic position on medical marijuana.
posted by daksya at 11:07 PM on May 12, 2008
Adam Miller is a student of life who has dedicated literally thousands of hours of personal research on top of formal institutional training in Dietetics to learn the secrets of achieving vibrant health and extended lifespan. His passion and dedication is in bringing the best ideas for self-empowerment through nutrition and nutraceuticals as well as alternative therapies, technology, and information to the public through various means.
Really? Thanks so much, Adam Miller.
posted by beerbajay at 4:28 AM on May 13, 2008
Really? Thanks so much, Adam Miller.
posted by beerbajay at 4:28 AM on May 13, 2008
There would be, if this had any negative effect on the ease of getting pot.
posted by me & my monkey at 8:25 PM on May 11
Damn right. Why stand up and fight, when you can subvert the system without drawing attention to yourself?
posted by schlaager at 9:37 AM on May 13, 2008
posted by me & my monkey at 8:25 PM on May 11
Damn right. Why stand up and fight, when you can subvert the system without drawing attention to yourself?
posted by schlaager at 9:37 AM on May 13, 2008
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posted by sonic meat machine at 11:26 AM on May 11, 2008 [7 favorites]