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May 20, 2008 9:33 PM   Subscribe

As of 2010 Steven Moffat will be replacing Russell T. Davies as lead writer and executive producer of Doctor Who. In 2005 Davies revived the series, which had been dormant (bar the odd US co-production or audiodrama) since 1989, for BBC Wales. It won awards and was successful enough to spawn the spin-offs Sarah Jane Adventures and the popular-in-America Torchwood. He is replaced by Moffat, one of the regular writers on the show, whose highly acclaimed episodes have won a number of awards and nominations. "I applied before but I got knocked back 'cos the BBC wanted someone else. Also I was seven. Anyway, I'm glad the BBC has finally seen the light and it's a huge honour to be following Russell into the best - and the toughest - job in television. I say toughest 'cos Russell's at my window right now, pointing and laughing."
posted by Artw (103 comments total) 16 users marked this as a favorite

 
Previously.
posted by Artw at 9:38 PM on May 20, 2008


Is Torchwood showing in the US now? I downloaded seasons 1 & 2 for a friend but found them rather... between average and annoying and meh. Also: I didn't like Buffy's Spike having aged. I DID like Blink and The Girl in the Fire (though found Blink rather too precious and pleased with its own cleverness [better than the absence of cleverness, obviously]

... uh... I miss Billy Piper... good luck, Steven Moffat?
posted by Auden at 9:44 PM on May 20, 2008


Weirdly though I don't know anyone in the US who watches Who in the US I know a bunch of people who love Torchwood (which I find a little odd, as my reaction was much like yours). I think the absense of similar US shows during the writers strike helped it a lot.
posted by Artw at 9:49 PM on May 20, 2008


This is brilliant news for me! I have to give credit where credit's due, Russell Davies brought back Doctor Who. But he's a crap writer. I usually tune in every season for the one or two episodes that Moffat writes, but have pretty much stopped watching this season.

If Moffat's going to be the head writer from 2010, I'll be there with bells on! Seriously, all the good eps of Doctor who since the revival were written by him: The Empty Child, The Doctor Dances, The Girl in the Fireplace, and especially Blink.
posted by Silentgoldfish at 9:50 PM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


Auden - My entire Who experience can be defined as trying to adjust to not having Billie Piper around.... she and the Doctor were the perfect pair.
posted by boubelium at 9:51 PM on May 20, 2008


.

(That's for Dave Sim.)
posted by rokusan at 9:55 PM on May 20, 2008


Torchwood makes me feel ashamed to watch it most of the time, but it does have the occasional great episode. I think I've comapred the two before, but Torchwood seems to share a trajectory with the X-Files -- early seasons have lots of dreck interspersed with a few stand-out moments and a lot of moments which will later go from cringeworthy to downright embarassing. It may evolve to where we get a satisfying middle few seasons, especially since it's found such an unexpected (to me) footing in the US market.

This season of Who had better find a way to stop having the Insufferable Companion Redux or the series may be lost to me. Hence, here's hoping it can stick around long enough for Moffat to have something to take over.
posted by abulafa at 10:00 PM on May 20, 2008


Torchwood makes me feel ashamed to watch it most of the time, but it does have the occasional great episode. I think I've comapred the two before, but Torchwood seems to share a trajectory with the X-Files

yes, those episodes when Mulder started making out with Assistant Director Walter S. Skinner
posted by Auden at 10:05 PM on May 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


"I applied before but I got knocked back 'cos the BBC wanted someone else. Also I was seven.

Hehe. Hopefully they'll let him write the gags, not that awful Tate woman.
posted by tapeguy at 10:10 PM on May 20, 2008


You know who I'd love to see write an episode? Kim Newman. Alternatively he could just sort of wander on set as some kind of historical extra.
posted by Artw at 10:14 PM on May 20, 2008


I never watched Who as a kid, because I found the theme song too spooky. I just figured it was some scary show. I made the decision to start watching Torchwood because a good friend is a James Marsters freak, and I knew she'd want to see his episodes - but I'm rather anal-retentive about completeness in my TV viewing, so I knew I'd have to watch the new Doctor Who first. Having already seen Billie Piper in "Secret Diaries of a Call Girl", I figured it was worth a shot.

Now I eagerly download all the episodes of both shows, and I'm not sure I could pick a favourite: I find both to be equally campy and of similar quality, but Who focuses on Silliness and Torchwood focuses on Sexiness.

When I watch Russell T. Davies on Doctor Who Confidential, I want to punch him. He constantly mixes metaphors and seems to have no idea how he will end a sentence when he begins speaking it. I'm sure he's a decent fellow, though.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:17 PM on May 20, 2008


Wow. I had no idea that Russell T. Davies was running Dr. Who. I associate him purely with the UK Queer as Folk.
(Confidential to Wire fans - if you've ever wished you could watch Tommy Carcetti fuck guys? Russell T. Davies has already made your dream come true!)
posted by moxiedoll at 10:17 PM on May 20, 2008


Moffat created and wrote the UK Coupling, one of the best sitcoms ever aired. That's probably enough to get this non-fan to start watching the show after god knows how many decades.
posted by Epenthesis at 10:19 PM on May 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


I think this will be a good thing. While I give full credit to Davies for reviving Doctor Who and making it, of all things, popular, at the end of the day I can't help but feel that the episodes Davies wrote himself have always been kind of weak. And while Doctor Who is hardly known for being the most serious of shows, Davies episodes always kind of came off as sillier than most.

Moffat, on the other hand, has written some standout episodes, as the FPP notes. The Empty Child was just superb, and while Blink was Doctor-lite, it managed to get across a very visceral feeling which I hadn't felt in Doctor Who for a long time.

So yes, I see this as a good thing. Again, full credit to Davies for doing what he did, but this can only make something that's good even better.

Also, while I have the floor (and just in case Moffat happens to be reading this), more episodes like The Impossible Planet / The Satan Pit please.
posted by Effigy2000 at 10:25 PM on May 20, 2008


The original theme song by Delia Derbyshire WAS amazingly spooky. I like Murray Gold's energetic current theme, but Derbyshire's had an incomparable hide-under-the-bed level of creepy, other-worldly genius.
posted by Auden at 10:27 PM on May 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


I like Murray Gold's energetic current theme, but Derbyshire's had an incomparable hide-under-the-bed level of creepy, other-worldly genius.

There's an extremely cool post on that. I quite like the Bill Bailey version.
posted by Artw at 10:33 PM on May 20, 2008


Moffat is also responsible for the truly excellent show Jekyll, which if you have not seen it I wholeheartedly recommend you find and watch ASAP.
posted by nightchrome at 10:33 PM on May 20, 2008 [1 favorite]


Or the KLF version...
posted by Artw at 10:34 PM on May 20, 2008


This news excites me a great deal. Like most fans, those episodes are among my very favorites (along with Father's Day and Planet of the Ood).
posted by vertigo25 at 10:38 PM on May 20, 2008


Artw- that KLF video was worth it just for the Fred Flintstone-style Dalek at the end. Hilarious
posted by Auden at 10:48 PM on May 20, 2008


I quite like the Orbital verison as well.
posted by Artw at 10:57 PM on May 20, 2008


I'm an American, and I've always been curious about Who. Also, I like Moffat. Where should I start to get caught up without having to watch 30 years of programs?
posted by Bookhouse at 10:58 PM on May 20, 2008


>Where should I start to get caught up without having to watch 30 years of programs?


Tom Baker.
posted by pompomtom at 11:11 PM on May 20, 2008 [2 favorites]


Bookhouse, just start at the 2005 season (starring the "ninth doctor" [ie, his ninth re-incarnation].

And, if you like it, keep going. If curious, you can work your way backwards to the eighth doctor series (1996) and earlier, all available online or netflix or amazon, etc.

Doctor Who - The Complete First Series (2005), $75.99 at Amazon
posted by Auden at 11:13 PM on May 20, 2008


Where should I start to get caught up without having to watch 30 years of programs?

Do what I did... start with the first episode of the 2005 series, and try to watch a couple episodes of Doctor Who Confidential (The "companion" series about the making of the show) per series (season, for us North Americans) that you watch. The episodes themselves are not hard to follow, and most of the major elements of the mythos are laid out early. The Confidential episodes give you a lot of behind-the-scenes bits that add valuable context. You learn a lot about previous Doctors and their runs, etc.
posted by chudmonkey at 11:36 PM on May 20, 2008


You should definitely start with episode one of the Ecclestone series, and give it a few episodes. In addition to The Empty Child / The Doctor Dances, there was also Dalek (which rebooted the Doctor's traditional enemy and managed to make the old pepperpot scary again) and a pretty good season finale (albeit with a literal deus ex machina). Although there are a number of back-references, it was made on the understanding that a large part of its target audience weren't alive when the show was last on.

The Moffat thing is good news, not just because of the episodes he's written for Who, but also because he's one of the few people that I think could deliver a really satisifying series arc. RTD, bless him, is actually a bit smoke and mirrors in that way. In fact it's quite obvious from the Confidential interviews that he cares not a jot about whether something makes sense, as long as it's the right thing at the right time dramatically. Which is fine, I suppose.

One thing I find interesting, though - in Who fandom, there's the usual argument about whether something is canon or not-canon. I suspect, to RTD, it's all canon, which is how a quartet of Daleks-with-names managed to wander in to series two from an obscure 1960s comic-book spin-off.
posted by Grangousier at 11:39 PM on May 20, 2008


Of course I did know, all along, that Russell T. Davies loved Dr. Who.
posted by moxiedoll at 11:46 PM on May 20, 2008


I probably shouldn't admit this, but Press Gang was probably the most significant reason I ended up going to journalism school. Oh, Julia Sawalha. sigh.
posted by Skwirl at 12:05 AM on May 21, 2008 [2 favorites]


Fabulous news!
posted by goo at 12:50 AM on May 21, 2008


Ooh! A thread about Doctor Who! I'm giddy with geekiness!

Moffat taking over for Davies? Well, that's not a surprise really. Couldn't have happened to a nicer couple of blokes.

Within the past few months I've discovered the new Who for myself and I've been addicted. All caught up now, and eagerly anticipating each new installment. The whole Sontaran two-parter thing left me feeling like I was a preteen again, when I first discovered Dr Who on PBS. Two companions meeting for the first time. One of my favorite old bad guys back for a new romp. The return of UNIT. What a nerd buffet! Awesome!

I didn't know Russell Davies was the Queer As Folk guy until well after I'd become hooked on the new Who. Runaway Bride was adorable. Smith and Jones was inspired. The three part Return of The Master bit at the end of the third series was a freaking roller coaster ride. Davies can do no wrong in my book at this point. I don't understand why anyone would look at the work Davies has done for the new Who and diss it. He is a sincere and knowledgeable fan of the original series and has brought a proper level of respect to the franchise while at the same time dragging it kicking and screaming into watchable and marketable territory - something NO ONE ELSE has been able to accomplish for over thirty years.

I'm now considering watching the Queer As Folk series. I hadn't had reason to do that before, but I honestly and objectively enjoy Davies' writing, so my own petty homophobia issues once again need to be challenged. I consider it therapy. If I could be gay I'd have a crush on Davies; that's how much I enjoy what he's done for one of my childhood heroes. Dobbs' Bless Russell Davies!

If Moffat was behind Coupling, then I'm 100% behind him taking the reins. It's a win/win here. Blink is hands down THE best written episode of the new Who. Hell, you could probably say it's the best written episode period. The Girl In The Fireplace took us places with The Doctor that I don't think we'd quite seen before. And "Are You My Mummy" will forever make me chuckle now, whatever context I hear it in, for the rest of my life.

Time Crash was simultaneously a delicious and fattening box of chocolates and a heart wrenching, mind blowing 'oh my gawd i can't believe they went there this is amazing' fireworks display for the uberfangeek. Moffat managed to write a verbal duet that didn't demean or belittle either ego's talents. When Tennant's Doctor admits that Davison was HIS Doctor, we the audience get the message. I mean okay it's cheesy as all get out but it's also adorably fun. It had to be Davison, because he's Tennant's inspiration. Moffat knew how to juggle these two egos and present to us a souffle of spice and sweetness, all under the budget for the sake of a well-intentioned charity. Any man who can pull off a nightmare like that can drive the TARDIS for me any day of the week.

I admittedly was not as appreciative of the chemistry between Eccleston and Piper as I am currently of Tennant and Tate. What they got brewing this season with those two is in my opinion Doctor Who at its absolute best since Baker and Sladen.

Billie Piper didn't do much for me really. I don't find her that good an actress. Her emotions are limited. She reminds me of Britney Spears for some reason, and not in a good way. Maybe it's the fault of the writers, because Rose seemed to be whining most of the time, even when she was supposed to be acting amazed at experiencing something new. She acted like being the Companion was a burden. She acted like she was addicted to the ride but that it wasn't doing her any good. Like she woulda been better off if she didn't escape her humdrum life and instead used her energies to make her humdrum life better. The whole romantic thing between her and the Doctor, while objectively I appreciated the writers' efforts to take The Doctor places emotionally that we've never seen him go before, emotionally I was just detached. I don't get why of all the people he's met over the eons, Rose Tyler is allegedly his soulmate. I want to go along with it, but I feel like I'm being told the Earth is flat and I have to pretend to go along with it.

Whereas, Tate's Debra Noble is just enjoying every waking moment of the experience and her character's experiences in the role of Companion are just endlessly entertaining and fun. Tate's performance is one of energy and enthusiasm, which echoes into the character as such an infectious enthusiasm for the stories as they unfold. I also find Tate's sense of wit and comedic timing to be spot on what the series needs. Some people aren't going to like her. She's admittedly an aquired taste, but since Partners In Crime she's had me wrapped around her little finger and I love every second she's on screen. I also think she's hot. Mmmm.. Redheads.

The best so far though has been Freema Agyeman. The plot arc of that character was the most inspired and thrilling. She came on board practically a doctor herself, and although occasionally the series fell back into making her the token victim or damsel in distress solely cuz that's what Companions are supposed to be to make the plot work, the character of Martha Jones herself always shone through as capable and intelligent and daring and all kinds of heroic in her own right. She was The Doctor's equal in her own strengths, not just his plucky sidekick. Because of this there was an inevitable point where she was going to outgrow him, and that was handled expertly by the writers and then admirably performed by Freema herself. I've got nothing but kudos and thankyous to send her way. All kindsa warm fuzzies and positive energies in her general direction. What a performance. There are not enough words to convey how much fun she was and how much depth she brought to the position of Companion. Awesome.

Torchwood's an entertaining spinoff, but it's kinda like Deep Space Nine to the Star Trek franchise. The trouble has to go to stationary Cardiff every week. Gets old fast. I enjoyed watching it, but it's not something I'm gonna go gaga over.

Likewise, Sarah Jane's Adventures were a treat to see, and I will always be infatuated with Elizabeth Sladen till I breathe my last, but what could have been a smart and mature reimagining of the Doctor Who universe from an unique perspective was just downgraded to a very okay kiddie show. It had its moments, and I enjoyed the acting all around, but again it's not something that left me head over hills crazy over it. I blame the producers who insisted on keeping it as family fare catering to children. It's like going to a gourmet bistro and ordering a happy meal.

I fear soon we'll hear news that Tennant will leave the series soon after Davies does. There's already been talk that Tennant is "taking a break" which means there'll be a year without Who before his return, but that he'll return in 2010. I'd like to continue seeing him as the face of The Doctor for many many years to come.

I have had a blast watching his approach to the character. He's adroitly aware that he is essentially playing all the previous incarnations. There's a bit of all of them in what Tennant does, and yet he's nothing like any of them. Sometimes he's dark. Sometimes he's mysterious. Sometimes he's cryptic and bohemian and sometimes he's vain and shallow. Tennant seems to have an inside track on what makes The Doctor tick that Eccleston completely failed to capture, and previous incarnations have only seemed to comparatively have a smattering of comprehension. Tennant's able to make us love The Doctor while never letting us forget that he's not one of us. He's alien in every sense of the word.

While Tom Baker is still my favorite Doctor, Tennant's rapidly found second place, and is beginning to compete in my heart for the top spot. I never thought anyone would be able to outdo Tom Baker. That'd be like someone other than Sean Connery doing James Bond and my thinking it's an improvement. That's practically blasphemy of me to even contemplate.

Whether it's Davies or Moffat in the hot seat, and whether it be Tennant's face or a newcomer as the figurehead of the prow, I'm happy so long as the stories keep coming. We were without a Who television series for too damn long. I'm just glad it's back and that it ain't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.
posted by ZachsMind at 12:59 AM on May 21, 2008 [3 favorites]


If they spent the money they spent on this show on something worthwhile like football, I'd be happier to pay for a TV licence. Bloody BBC and their little stupid projects.


OK - I'm joking. Woot!1!! Doctor Who!!1!!one! This Saturday is (I believe) the start of a Moffat double episode, so I'm pretty psyched about that.
posted by seanyboy at 1:48 AM on May 21, 2008


I think this is brilliant. I love Moffat's work - beginning for me with Coupling, and while I was sad that Coupling had to end on a somewhat hanging note when he went to Doctor Who, I was also thrilled that he was working on reviving one of my favorite television shows from childhood.

I agree that his scripts are the best of the series, or at least my favorites - and yeah, I love Blink. God do I love it, though it scares the crap out of me, I think it's my favorite.

The combination of Tennant's acting and Moffat's scripts is such a delicious chemistry. I hope Tennant sticks around for a good chunk of Moffat's tenure. And I wish Catherine Tate would (I am given to understand this will be her only season), I love having a companion who humanizes the Doctor without being in love with him. I very much liked Rose and Martha but I found the romance subplots to be largely useless.
posted by angeline at 1:49 AM on May 21, 2008


Delighted to hear Moffat is taking over - I've been faithfully watching since the 2005 revival and always loved the Moffat eps. angeline, I know what you mean about Tate - at first i was really against her and i still think she has her weaknesses, but i think she and Tennant are getting into a groove now and add a lot of non-romancey fun to the whole thing. I do miss Piper, though.
posted by ukdanae at 1:58 AM on May 21, 2008


It would be nice if the women on the show were a bit more realistic characters. Wide eyed ingenue (Billie Piper), helpless easily abducted woman barely able to stand on her own despite education (Dr. Martha Jones), or a loud crude ignoramus (Catherine Tate). I'd write like that if I hated women.
posted by srboisvert at 2:07 AM on May 21, 2008


I was thinking only the other day; "Russell T. Davies has been doing Doctor Who for a long time now hasn't he?", so this doesn't come as too much of a shock.
It's definitely good news if we end up with a darker, scarier Doctor Who. I love the program to bits but can't help but wish that all the kids watching it would just fuck off and let me appreciate some gore/complexity/terror.
posted by greytape at 2:31 AM on May 21, 2008


It would be nice if the women on the show were a bit more realistic characters. Wide eyed ingenue (Billie Piper), helpless easily abducted woman barely able to stand on her own despite education (Dr. Martha Jones), or a loud crude ignoramus (Catherine Tate). I'd write like that if I hated women.

I don't think any of those women are as you have characterised them.

I love the program to bits but can't help but wish that all the kids watching it would just fuck off and let me appreciate some gore/complexity/terror.

Yeah, but kids LOVE gore/complexity/terror. Someone send a memo to Moffat. Actually I think he already knows.
posted by Summer at 3:02 AM on May 21, 2008


I don't think that Doctor Who will ever be my favourite show, but it will certainly be a lot closer once Moffat takes over. Davies' endlessly camp sensibilities have put me off on more than one occasion.

My daughter (11) loves the show, and so do her friends. I personally think it's too scary for under 10s, but most of my younger daughter's (8) friends DO watch it (and then have nightmares).

Silence In The Library should be one of the best. I'll be watching it with daughter #1 and a big bowl of popcorn.

Here's some wiki shit for y'all since I don't think it's been posted:

Moffat has been a lifelong Doctor Who fan and, in 2004, was signed to write for the revival. His contribution for the first series, transmitted in 2005, was the Hugo Award-winning[16] two-part story "The Empty Child"/"The Doctor Dances". In the DVD audio commentary he says that he waited forty years to see his name appear on top of that theme music.[17] He wrote an episode for each of the two following series of Doctor Who: "The Girl in the Fireplace" in the 2006 series (which won the 2007 Hugo Award for Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form,[18] and was nominated for a 2006 Nebula Award,[19]) and "Blink" in the 2007 series. In the Doctor Who Magazine reader poll for the 2007 series, Moffat was voted as best writer and "Blink" as the best story. The episode was also nominated for the Nebula Award for Best Script.[20] In 2008 it secured him his third Hugo nomination, again for Best Dramatic Presentation,[21] the BAFTA Craft Award for Best Writer,[22] and a BAFTA Cymru Award for Best Screenwriter.[23] He also wrote the 2007 Children in Need "special scene" "Time Crash".

He has written a two-part story for series four in 2008, entitled "Silence in the Library"/"Forest of the Dead". This makes Moffat and series executive producer Russell T Davies the only writers to have contributed scripts to all four series of the revived show. In February 2008, The Sun claimed that these scripts had been leaked to its TV Biz column.[24] In March 2008, Davies said that he often rewrites scripts from other writers, but "with Steven Moffat's scripts, I don't touch a word".[25]

posted by chuckdarwin at 3:13 AM on May 21, 2008


>>> This Saturday is (I believe) the start of a Moffat double episode ...

Unfortunately, the next Who will be delayed a week due to Eurovision.
posted by grabbingsand at 4:05 AM on May 21, 2008


Skwirl wrote: I probably shouldn't admit this, but Press Gang was probably the most significant reason I ended up going to journalism school. Oh, Julia Sawalha. sigh.

Same here. I wouldn't be surprised if that programme is the reason every journalist of our generation became a journalist! (And yeah, Julia Sawalha and Dexter Fletcher were the gold standard of hot for me when I was 12).

Anyway, Doctor Who: since Blink is the only halfway decent episode of the post-Davies era, Moffat's appointment can only be an improvement. But I won't be watching until they kill off Catherine Tate's character.
posted by jack_mo at 4:14 AM on May 21, 2008


Catherine Tate is rubbish and I have considered deleting most of the Dr. Who episodes from my DVR for this season. The Titanic "Christmas" episode that ended the last series was embarrassingly bad. Blink was awesome and more Moffat would be welcome.

I still don't get the love for Rose. Every episode reads like:

Dr: "Rose, don't touch anything. We need to be careful."
Rose: "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO! It's my dad!"
Dr: "Rose, I'm beggin' you. Please listen to me."
Rose: "You may be a Time Lord, but you don't know anything about human love!"
Dr.: "Fine. No talking sense to you. Do what you want."
...
Rose: "oops. Maybe you were right."
posted by terrapin at 4:20 AM on May 21, 2008 [6 favorites]


Davies can write some great stuff (The Second Coming and Queer as Folk, for example), but he's also written some really, really awful episodes of Doctor Who (hello, Aliens of London and Voyage of the Damned). I can't think of anyone better than Moffat to take over, and I am hoping this means less present-day Earth for a show which can go anywhere in time and space.

I'm finding Catherine Tate to be not half as bad as I expected, except when she tries to be funny and then I cringe.
posted by penguinliz at 4:33 AM on May 21, 2008


Yay! Doctor Who thread! My hip hop monstrosity in the green is inspired by and samples Baker era Doctor Who. I love every last moment of RTD's vision of The Doctor. It's safe to say that my two biggest obsessions in life right now are Doctor Who and Hip Hop. I've wanted to make a massive, narrative MeFi post about Doctor Who, but it's been covered so much in the past I'm afraid it would be considered noise.

Moffat is a true fan, an amazing writer, has respect for the history but can look to the future, and will bring Doctor Who to new heights. His episodes of the new era have been on the short list of greatest episodes ever.

Although I do predict that his era will be less popular in America. RTD really Whedon-izes things for Americans, and Moffat's creations are very British. Torchwood will always be more popular then Doctor Who anyways, just because of it's pointless over the top sexuality and camp. Doctor Who can have camp and and even be cheeky sometimes, but always retains true quality. Torchwood feels like a gimmick to me.
posted by mediocre at 4:34 AM on May 21, 2008


Wow, am I the only person who watched Jekyll and loved it?
posted by nightchrome at 4:37 AM on May 21, 2008


Why couldn't this have happened after Ecc? RTD's episodes are awful. Even worse than Torchwood.

Nonetheless, great news. The current series, particularly the finale of last season, and everything this season has been close to unbearable. Looking forward to 2010.
posted by juiceCake at 5:10 AM on May 21, 2008


Although I do predict that his era will be less popular in America. RTD really Whedon-izes things for Americans, and Moffat's creations are very British.

Speaking as an American who doesn't particularly care for most things Whedon (and who has seriously enjoyed Moffat's episodes of Who) I'd gladly welcome the change.
posted by Spatch at 5:16 AM on May 21, 2008


Thank god for that. Hopefully Moffat will stop the descent into slavish Whedon fanboyism.
posted by influx at 5:25 AM on May 21, 2008


More like The Girl in the Fireplace and Blink, and less like the Bloody Fucking Drums Three-Parter. Don't get me wrong--the first part was fucking wonderful, but the remaining two parts painted the Master to be fucking daft--not to mention a closet homosexual--and the duex-et-machina ending was so... ugh.

Just about the only thing worse than watching a poofy Master dance in a giant dirigible was the I'm-Going-To-Throw-Up-In-My-Mouth feeling I got whenever they played up the non-existent relationship between the Doctor and Martha Jones. When I heard Martha's Theme in last week's episode (or whatever they're calling that irritating music box-like song they play during a "Martha looks at the Doctor lovingly"-scene) I had an almost Pavlov-like nausea well up from deep in my bowels. At least she's fucking gone now.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:47 AM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


Oh, probably should have prefaced the last post with a SPOILERS warning.

Or more like, RELIEVERS.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:48 AM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


Not only do I love Doctor who, but my 12 year old daughter has become a HUGE fan of the show. Good to hear about Moffat taking over.
posted by quibx at 6:11 AM on May 21, 2008


My wife and I just finished watching Season 3 of the new Doctor Who. I want to love that show, but I don't know that it ever fulfilled the promise it seemed to have when Eccleston was around.

"Hey, I'm an alien master of time and space! We can go to any place and any era spanning billions of years, so where to? I know, early 21st century London again! It'll be great! Or ooooh, maybe early 21st century Cardiff?! Imagine the wonders we'll behold!"

The show is just lazy, ham-fistedly goofy and so in love with the slight mythology its built up for itself over its short run. Everything gets revisited a few times over, even the mediocre crap no one cared about in the first place. And budget-smudget, the old series got a shitload more mileage out of cardboard and papier-mache than the current one does with its big cgi effects.

I hope this Moffat guy tones down some of the melodrama and brings back some of the weirdness.
posted by picea at 6:13 AM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


Wow, am I the only person who watched Jekyll and loved it?

No, I saw it the other week, and...well, you know, here's the funny thing...much as I dug it overall, and as much as I'm inclined to agree with the prevailing sentiment that Moffat's the best current "Who" writer, it is not as though there was no trace of camp in "Jekyll," I'm sorry to say. Those first two or three episodes are great (there are only six, for those who haven't seen it), but then...but then...I don't know. The tone shifts from something like "Dexter" filtered through SF and a British sensibility, and (SPOILERS, possibly) gradually morphs into a tongue in cheek superhero story with dark edges, and while it's still pretty entertaining...hurm. Much is lost, much cute is cuted, and I could have been happier, myself. So I guess what I'm saying is, if anyone thinks this change is gonna mean that all the stuff you hate about Davies will disappear, think again.

(That said, I'm kinda hoping his rising star means that Moffat gets another shot at "Jekyll," because NICE CLIFFHANGER, DUDE. Grah.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:26 AM on May 21, 2008


Ever since I saw "Joking Apart" back in the '90s I've been a Steven Moffat fan, so I'm happy to see him taking the reins of Doctor Who. Probably eliminates any chance of a second series of Jekyll though.
posted by Tenuki at 6:41 AM on May 21, 2008


Oh happy, happy day. I heard through some back channels that Moffat might take over and I am beyond thrilled. I'm a fan of both the new and the old series, and while some may blush at admitting that career decisions came from the show, looking back at my developmental years and how I developed as a liberal coming from a family of core conservatives, I'm pretty sure the ideas were somehow extracted from my fanatical devotion to Who.

I also don't care for Russel T. Davies' writing - he did a phenomenal re-introduction of the series, and he's pretty much written fanwank since, and not good fanwank. While I still feel cheated that Christopher Eccleston left the show after only one series, I think that the show has reached dizzying heights of quality - especially since Moffat became more involved. Last year's series wasn't just great science fiction, it's some of the best television I've ever seen on Who and on Torchwood.

I also hate the way RTD writes women - he's always giving us strong female characters and then rendering them useless - Rose and Martha both went drooling after the Doctor, 1st season Torchwood Gwen should have been shot and put out of my misery, and anytime we saw a woman with any kind of self-possession or power she was either treated with extreme disrespect (Queen Victoria) or was canon fodder.

I can't wait to see more from Moffat - all canon fodder choices from him are utterly gender neutral.
posted by medea42 at 6:49 AM on May 21, 2008


Did you ever notice that Tourchwood is an anagram for Doctor Who? I thought that was neat, and somehow missed it for a long time.
posted by inigo2 at 7:01 AM on May 21, 2008


Who and Torchwood have both been a little uneven recently.

"The Fires of Pompeii" (04x02) seemed to be ushering in another great season, in spite of the odd demographic shift they seemed to be heralding, exchanging Freema for the vividly middle-aged Catherine Tate. Not to be ageist or anything, but Tate isn't eye-candy. But the Ood, The Poison Sky and the Sontarans have been a bit of a bore. There seems to be some enormous potential for Jenny, the Doctor's monozygote daughter, but that has yet to be fully bourne out.

But to return to the immediate subject, Moffat is probably the best writer on the show -- The Girl in the Fireplace, Blink and The Empty Child were all great episodes. Additional kudos go to Moffat for his Jekyll miniseries, though it can only have been big $money$ that lured actresses Sophia Myles and Michelle Ryan across the pond to participate in some miserably misconceived American genre shows.

Torchwood, as I understand it, is in the midst of a conversion from an 'adult-oriented' show to a more family-friendly show, however the evidence on the screen seems to suggest that Davies stuck around for the opening episodes of both seasons and then took a long walk. Indira Varma "Rome" pedigree should have set the show up afor great things, but she was wasted. In the 2nd series of Torchwood, half of the cast got wasted just as thay all became more interesting.

At least there's still "Primeval".

Season's 3's three-parter conclusion was great if only for the participation of John Simm. I don't care. The camp in those episodes was fun and infectious. Not all villains should be obligated to twirl their mustaches.

The American remake of Life On Mars will fail. It's inevitable.

posted by vhsiv at 7:05 AM on May 21, 2008


Rumoured for a while, but this is good news for the series. Moffat has clearly written some of the best episodes of the series (though weirdly last weeks Gareth Roberts written episode 'The Unicorn And The Wasp', was for me, about the best thing New Who's done so far - for once all the wackiness and jokes actually worked.) Anyway I hope Moffat brings some his dark edge to the series overall... I'd love it to go back to early Tom Baker Hammer-Horrorish type tales.

And kudos for RTD for reviving the series but he is by far the worse writer (what is his obsession with farting fatties?) He's a kid's writer at heart (Queer As Folk being the one exception) and with Who it really shows.

Torchwood is just an abomination... I just lost patience with it when Spike turned up and have not seen an episode since. Brooker basically covered everything I hate about it here...
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:13 AM on May 21, 2008


Oh yeah, and whilst very silly, Primeval pretty much rocked, probably because it although it obviously never took things too seriously it played a pretty straight bat - may be a few too many characters and the arc plot-lines seem to take forever to resovle (if they ever do...) but it was much better than Torchwood.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:17 AM on May 21, 2008


I really liked Jeykll. I would have preferred a bit more understated acting but other than that I thought it was excellent.

I don't think any of those women are as you have characterised them.

Really? Because I just watched an episode where Martha gets easily grabbed by aliens and dragged off (helpless physically weak woman that she is), falling into a puddle of quicksand (helpless physically weak uncoordinated woman that she is) and being unable to get out (..ditto). I'm not an episode memorizer but it does seem that her function in the series is hapless abductee over and over again.

If there were episodes with Rose that didn't feature her mooning with big batting eyes at some point I guess I missed them. She got to play a stronger more respectable woman after Dr. Who when she was upgraded to a prostitute in Diary of a Call Girl.

I was a bit excited at the Dr's daughter thinking aha! at last they might have a strong leading female character and maybe they will in a spinoff or something (I am a bit behind and don't really follow the dr. who news so I don't know what all happens with that).

Oh yeah, and whilst very silly, Primeval pretty much rocked, probably because it although it obviously never took things too seriously it played a pretty straight bat - may be a few too many characters and the arc plot-lines seem to take forever to resovle (if they ever do...) but it was much better than Torchwood.

And better female characters! Some strong - some weak - some in between with the same for the men.
posted by srboisvert at 7:27 AM on May 21, 2008


As someone who reads "Doctor Who: The First Season" and naturally assumes it begins with "An Unearthly Child," this is great news. I first learned of Moffat through Coupling and when I saw his name on the credits for "Empty Child" I wondered if it was the same guy. And "Blink" was beyond awesome.

And not that it matters at all, but I sort of miss the Doctor of old, who eschewed romantic entanglements and was more part Sherlock Holmes, part physicist Indiana Jones, part Cambridge don.

I think what I like about Moffat's episodes is that they remind me of the formula-defying episodes of the original series, like Deadly Assassin, Castrovalva, Enlightenment, and City of Death. City of Death gets my vote for best episode ever.
posted by Pastabagel at 7:28 AM on May 21, 2008


I also hate the way RTD writes women - he's always giving us strong female characters and then rendering them useless

Yeah, shades of Heinlein. I had such hopes for Martha in her first few episodes; she was smart, she took charge, she did more than just hang around asking the Doctor what should be done now. Then all of a sudden she got totally moony-eyed and couldn't do anything but pine for the Doctor, and this wasn't helped by so many secondary characters telling her things like "Shame he doesn't like you back, love. You two would make the bestest most perfectest couple ever."

RTD also gives his female characters overbearing, if not completely domineering mothers. I really have to wonder about his mommy issues.
posted by Spatch at 7:45 AM on May 21, 2008


Really? Because I just watched an episode where Martha gets easily grabbed by aliens and dragged off (helpless physically weak woman that she is), falling into a puddle of quicksand (helpless physically weak uncoordinated woman that she is) and being unable to get out (..ditto). I'm not an episode memorizer but it does seem that her function in the series is hapless abductee over and over again.

Yeah, but she also travels the whole world leading the resistance during the Master episodes and the reason she leaves the Doctor is because she needs to save the earth.

I don't think the examples above show her to be a weak woman, I think they're just plot devices. She's grabbed by the aliens (ouch) so she can go and see how alike they are to the humans and she falls in the quicksand so she can be rescued by an alien and mourn his death.

I thought she had a lot of potential, but her character was sacrificed to bring in Tate, which was a populist move.
posted by Summer at 7:49 AM on May 21, 2008


I don't really care which way it goes (though I have to agree with the consensus that Moffat's episodes are the best of the new crop), just please, please, please don't let anything happen to take Doctor Who away from me again.

And not that it matters at all, but I sort of miss the Doctor of old, who eschewed romantic entanglements and was more part Sherlock Holmes, part physicist Indiana Jones, part Cambridge don.

I'm with you, Pastabagel. The romantic subplots don't really even make sense--he may look human, but the Doctor's a member of a vastly more advanced alien species. On the other hand, my wife is now a huge fan of the new series, despite deploring the original, essentially because she thinks David Tennant is hot. (Well, and I think the improved special effects are part of the draw, too.) And I suspect, like it or not, the new generation of fans are going to insist on sexualizing the Doctor one way or the other.
posted by saulgoodman at 8:00 AM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


The wife and I have been watching some of the old Tom Baker episodes (first time ever for her, first time in a long time for me). What's interesting is that we've found that we much prefer the kind of filler that consists of endless shots of wandering down identical corridors to that which consists of endless cringeworthy dialog scenes about people's utterly cardboard hopes and dreams and family concerns. The Titanic Christmas episode was especially bad about this. It was like having a Nazi scientist shouting "YOU WILL CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE" in my ear for an hour.

Also, the incidental music is so much better. There was a point where I'd gotten used to the generic overblown John Williams/Jerry Goldsmith crap they've been using in the new series but it's been getting on my nerves again recently. No comparison to the understated brilliance of Dudley Simpson and the like. In addition, it seems like the music track was given a much lower absolute volume in the sound mix on the older shows, where in the new shows it seems like the music is always blaring loud and in your face.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:16 AM on May 21, 2008 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I feel that Primeval is what Torchwood should have been.
posted by nightchrome at 8:18 AM on May 21, 2008


Primeval is what Stargate:(.*) should have been.
posted by vhsiv at 8:25 AM on May 21, 2008


This is good news. Blink was by far my favorite episode. More like that would be good.
posted by homunculus at 9:10 AM on May 21, 2008


Let's not forget that Moffat wrote the Curse of the Fatal Death.
posted by Eideteker at 9:22 AM on May 21, 2008


The Titanic Christmas episode was especially bad about this. It was like having a Nazi scientist shouting "YOU WILL CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE" in my ear for an hour.

It's marginally better than weepy angst as a time-filler. Yes, the Doctor is wonderful and terrible at the same time, weep, weep, weep.

Still not as bad as the arch-offender on this count, Battlestar Galactica. Those fuckers are masters of drawing a foregone conclusion out into an episodes worth of pointless angsting.
posted by Artw at 9:25 AM on May 21, 2008


Eccleston made me like the Doctor again. He brought a welcome darkness to the character that I hadn't seen before, a look behind the big grin which suggested a bit of pain, and I was hugely disappointed when he left the show. Or at least, I was until I realized about a half episode in that Tennant was pretty damn good at it as well. Likewise, I was briefly worried when I heard that Davis was leaving, which lasted for all of about 15 seconds until I found out who was replacing him.

I think this a good thing for the series, I'm just sad that I have to wait till 2010 to see it happen.
posted by quin at 9:26 AM on May 21, 2008


Eideteker - Yes, people often forget that one of the doctors regenerations was Mr. Bean.
posted by Artw at 9:26 AM on May 21, 2008


Also: a nicely done post, Artw.
posted by quin at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2008


Very exciting news! I came to the new Doctor Who after seeing Christopher Eccleston on Heroes, and have just finished watching Season 3 on DVD. "Blink" scared the heck out of me, and I loved it.

I've only seen the first season of "Torchwood", and it's a guilty pleasure. Plus I like the snogging.
posted by mogget at 9:37 AM on May 21, 2008


RTD, bless him, is actually a bit smoke and mirrors in that way. [...] he cares not a jot about whether something makes sense, as long as it's the right thing at the right time dramatically
Yep. There's a lot of hate for RTD, but his stuff is really fine in most ways: his dialogue is generally good and he can throw in some wonderful quirky ideas and scenes. But he's no good at logical plotting at all, which can make the series arcs and finales very frustrating.

Moffatt taking over is a fan fantasy I'm glad to see turned real.
I still don't get the love for Rose
Me neither. I mean she's OK, did the job perfectly acceptably, but why the irritating eulogising over the following two series? Better companions never got such treatment; she wasn't all that.
Catherine Tate is rubbish and I have considered deleting most of the Dr. Who episodes from my DVR for this season.
Come now, she's not *that* bad - not nearly as dire as she was in 'The Runaway Bride'. In fact her character doesn't really seem to share much with the 2006 version, which is a relief.
The Titanic "Christmas" episode that ended the last series was embarrassingly bad.
Yep, that was a showcase for RTD's plotting problems (especially as it's just the first series episode 'The End of the World' again, only not nearly as good), plus the worst of the clunky emotion, and the overpowering music. TURN IT DOWN MURRAY, WE CAN HEAR YOU THANKS
Doctor Who - The Complete First Series (2005), $75.99 at Amazon
75 bucks for 13 episodes? Yikes, I guess your currency really has fallen in the alien quicksand eh?
posted by BobInce at 10:06 AM on May 21, 2008


75 bucks for 13 episodes? Yikes, I guess your currency really has fallen in the alien quicksand eh?

In fairness, that's an unusually preposterous steep price for a boxed set of anything around here. (The HBO sets used to be about that bad, but they seem to have come down.)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 10:24 AM on May 21, 2008


Good news, everyone!

I have to agree with many posters in this thread that Moffat has penned the standout epiodes of the revived series. Anyone who watches BLINK and doesn't think they should give DOCTOR WHO a try afterwards ought to have their head examined.

(Also, THE GIRL IN THE FIREPLACE was teh h0t.)

I've disliked more episodes than I've liked in the revival, but Moffat is clearly the current cream of the crop. Perhaps he will have the foresight to return the opening theme music to its pre-2008 incarnation, which at least had the virtue of not sounding as if three or four versions are being played simultaneously, competing for aural bandwidth. It's a bit...thrashy.

Finally, I'm pretty sure that the Doctor is the final cylon.
posted by CheeseburgerBrown at 10:51 AM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


CheeseburgerBrown writes 'Anyone who watches BLINK and doesn't think they should give DOCTOR WHO a try afterwards ought to have their head examined.'

I watched Blink, thought 'I should give new Doctor Who a try' and was then faced with the crushing disappointment of all the other episodes being total bibble. I reckon it's probably better to watch a couple of the other episodes, have ones expectations accordingly lowered, then hit Blink, just for a taste of 'Well, at least this one is kind of nearly almost approaching being as good as Doctor Who was when I was little'. (Last time I watched recent Who, I actually found myself getting nostalgic for Sylvester McCoy, which is a pretty sorry state of affairs.)
posted by jack_mo at 11:12 AM on May 21, 2008


I agree with Nightchrome: Jekyll was brilliant. I'm trying to score a cheap copy of the whole thing right now ....
posted by MChristian at 11:12 AM on May 21, 2008


Well the one general consensus of this thread is that Blink is excellent classic Dr. Who. Certainly the best of its season, and many would seem to agree one of the better episodes ever in the history of the series. I've yet to see anyone say anything bad about Blink. It's rare and precious to find some place in MeFi where pretty much everyone is in agreement.

With that said:

Freema Agyeman rocks the most
Tate is a close second to most rocking
Davies rocks
Moffat rocks
Tennant rocks
Eccleston was very okay to occasional meh (and expected far more from him after seeing his work in Heroes)
Piper was meh to suck

Bleargh to all the Davies haters and Tate haters. You suck.

There. I feel so much better, having distilled my previous opinions down into grade school recess chunks.

Oh. And the new Daleks rocked and the new Sontarans rock. The Cybermen were laughable and very suck.

Torchwood is very okay to meh.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:10 PM on May 21, 2008


The Cybermen were laughable and very suck.

But they get a pass because they provided the best Dalek lines of the series (starting at 3:00).

I liked Billie Piper as Rose. But Tate is my favorite because we finally have a companion in the new series who won't fall in love and constantly be making doe eyes at the Doctor. (See also: every character falling in love with every other character in Torchwood).
posted by Gary at 2:37 PM on May 21, 2008


And better female characters! Some strong - some weak - some in between with the same for the men.

It's funny that the female characters in Dr. Who seem to be so lame because Gwen is so incredibly awesome in Torchwood. I do like Torchwood better I must say, the characters are much more interesting and the second season was significantly better than the first.
posted by ch1x0r at 4:59 PM on May 21, 2008


Admittedly, I was disappointed with the latest episode when Debra Noble kissed the Doctor in order to 'shock' him. After Martha and Rose, it's not very shocking at all, Maybe Noble is harboring a crush - something that will annoy the heck out of me if the writers insist on going there.

Contrary to seemingly popular belief, The Doctor does NOT make for an ingenue. I am very tired of every humanoid female and the occasional humanoid male fawning over him like he's Elvis, Fabio, and Sting all rolled up into one. I mean he's cool and all, but he ain't all dat.

It reminds me of the early seasons of X-Files, when shippers kept rallying for Mulder and Scully to hop in bed and I kept warning everyone "you think you want this but trust me you don't want this!" Of course, as soon as they kissed in the movie, the series jumped the shark. No one ever listens to me.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:09 PM on May 21, 2008


On Torchwood, in the season two finale, they killed off the only character I actually liked. I enjoyed watching the show and don't feel it was a waste of time, but in hindsight I have to admit the writing's been rather predictable, trite, pedantic, immature, unecessarily trendy and flashy and a lot of other unflattering adjectives.

The other characters didn't do much for me, and without Toshiko, I really don't have a reason to follow along next season year series whatever. On more than one occasion, I was hoping someone would just punch Gwen in the face. She's multiple layers of annoying. I'd also like to subject Jack Harkness to a clown-sized fire extinguisher.
posted by ZachsMind at 5:45 PM on May 21, 2008


Toychwould
posted by Artw at 6:45 PM on May 21, 2008 [1 favorite]


Admittedly, I was disappointed with the latest episode when Debra Noble kissed the Doctor in order to 'shock' him. After Martha and Rose, it's not very shocking at all, Maybe Noble is harboring a crush - something that will annoy the heck out of me if the writers insist on going there.

But Donna's character, from the very beginning, is shown as completely uninterested in the Doctor romantically. People are forever mistaking them for a couple and they are forever getting annoyed and protesting it, in what I think is a specific reaction on Davies's part to people's complaints that Rose and Martha were too gooey-eyed over the Doctor. The shock wasn't that a companion kissed the Doctor (because big deal, I think even Mickey got a kiss from him at some point), but specifically that Donna "You're Not Mating With Me, Sunshine" Noble kissed him.

I have had my issues with Russell T. Davies and some of his choices (the whole "Martha pines for the Doctor" decision gave their relationship an unsympathetic and uncomfortable quality that turned me off of a lot of Series 3), but all in all I love nuWho, and I'll be sorry to see him go. Moffat's turned in classic episode after classic episode, so it'll be interesting to see how he operates on the larger scale.

And for profiling purposes: I loved Rose, liked Martha except for the pining, and I think Donna is one of the greatest things to happen to the show in a long time.
posted by brookedel at 8:27 PM on May 21, 2008


I've loved Moffat's work since "Press Gang" - and I think his Who work is the best writing of the New series, getting better with each year. He also wrote the awesome seven minute "Time Crash" - about the meeting of the Tenth Doctor and the Fifth Doctor.
posted by crossoverman at 10:48 PM on May 21, 2008


It's funny that the female characters in Dr. Who seem to be so lame because Gwen is so incredibly awesome in Torchwood.

You have got to be kidding.
posted by The Monkey at 6:47 AM on May 22, 2008


BrookeDel: "But Donna's character, from the very beginning, is shown as completely uninterested in the Doctor romantically."

I know! Which is why doing dorky stuff like inventing reasons for the character to think she has to kiss him "in order to shock him" are lame and set a dangerous precedent. Why so many writers feel they must have romance in a storyline nowadays is beyond me. Can we not have a tv series without that? At the very least, romantic interludes should develop with characters outside the circle of regulars.

If you only have two leads, they should not end up with each other. They should both have relationships outside their own partnership which help to generate more opportunity for conflict and humor and intrigue etc. When the two leads focus on each other, the series develops an unhealthy tendency of regression in story development. It lessens the number of opportunities for new interactions with others.

Watch a tv series like Hart To Hart, Remington Steele, or MacMillan & Wife, then compare the plot development to a series like Mission Impossible, Lost, Heroes, or Star Trek Next Generation. If you have more characters, who interact with supporting characters or special guest roles outside their usual circle, the stories improve.

What makes this fourth season sing is the fact Debra is not interested in the Doctor 'in that way' so both of them are more focused on what's going on around them. Compare that to when Billie Piper was on the show. She spent more time focusing on the Doctor than she did on the bug eyed monsters and temporal distortions, which gave the first two seasons a kinda tunnel vision effect thematically.

So when Debra (and in turn the writers) 'shock' the Doctor (and presumably in turn, us), it's not shocking. It was actually kinda creepy. The writers were going for the funny in that moment but it was more like ugh here we go again.
posted by ZachsMind at 3:55 PM on May 22, 2008


I'd also like to point out that Jack Harkness is a Mary Sue if ever there was one.

I used to think Jack was how Russell Davies imagined himself to be when he fantasized about Doctor Who as a kid. However, that theory died on the vine when I realized that Steven Moffat wrote "The Empty Child." So is Jack Harkness a Mary Sue for Moffat? Or is Jack a Mary Sue for Davies that Moffat made work?

I know Jack is a Mary Sue because it takes one to know one. When I was a kid I used to imagine myself in the Tom Baker stories and aside from the fact my equivalent of Jack was actually interested in Sarah and not the Doctor, he's pretty much the same character: a coward at first that becomes heroic and in the process accidently acquires immortality. In fact it's kinda eerie...
posted by ZachsMind at 6:44 AM on May 25, 2008


Even Hitler hates Torchwood... (massive spoilers for end of season 2)
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:10 PM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


A friend of mine called last night and we hadn't talked in awhile. We were comparing notes on television we'd seen. He mentioned a few shows I didn't like or haven't seen. I mentioned a few he didn't like or hadn't seen. Then he mentioned Torchwood.

"Well I was kinda enjoying Torchwood," I began, "but then the writers killed off Toshiko and so I--"

"What??? Dude!"

"What?"

"Dude!"

"What's wrong, dude? I mean what'd I say?"

"I'm only up to halfway through season two!"

Dead silence.

"They kill off Toshiko!?"

"Dude!" I was backpedalling in mollasses. "I thought you were all caught up!"

"No dude I'm not!"

"Oh dude, I'm sorry!"

"Dammit dude!

"Really dude - I'm totally sorry, man!"

"Awww dude! Toshiko!"

"So halfway through season two - does that mean you know about Owen?"

"Owen? They kill off Owen?"

"I really should shut up."

"Awww dude! They kill off Owen, too!"

"I didn't say that!"

"But dude saying you should shut up means he's dead!"

"Well, yes and no."

"Dude! What do you mean?"

"Well he was kinda sorta.. and then he... I really should just shut up."

"Dammit, dude!

"I'm sorry dude, uh look I gotta go-"

"No dude! You can't leave me hanging like this! Dude!"

"Really dude - anything I say at this point is gonna make it worse."

"Dude!"

No. My friend is not Hurley Reyes.
posted by ZachsMind at 1:27 PM on May 25, 2008 [1 favorite]


Even Hitler hates Torchwood... (massive spoilers for end of season 2)

I thought the source for that video was a haunting, brilliant movie. Maybe that's why I still find every one of these goofy videos hilarious.

Back on topic, they're going to add Mickey? That really is the stupidest idea ever.
posted by Gary at 3:15 PM on May 25, 2008


Saying you can spoil Torchwood is like saying you can litter on Fresh Kills.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 3:27 PM on May 25, 2008




Damn, didn't realize that "Silence in the Library" was going to be a cliffhanger.
posted by Tenuki at 4:52 PM on June 1, 2008


"Is there a place for Doctor Who on TV in the next decade?" - a round table discussion from back in the day which might have some clues as to how a Moffat Who would be.
posted by Artw at 4:46 PM on June 12, 2008




I'm suddenly deeply concerned that they're thinking of writing Catherine Tate out of the series. They've shown us glimpses of a future where The Doctor is around and gets another companion, but Donna Noble is curiously absent. That ticks me off. And the previews for next week hint that they're bringing Rose Tyler back. Dammit. I hate Rose Tyler. I adore Donna Noble.

They finally get Doctor Who just the way I want it to be. This season has been some of the best stuff yet. Now they're about to fuck it all up. Pisses me off.

I bet you Tate haters wrote to the show and expressed your grievances, and Russell Jeffries actually listened to you. Damn you guys. Donna Noble's awesome. You all suck. =P
posted by ZachsMind at 2:06 AM on June 17, 2008


I think you mean Russell T Davies, not Jeffries. I'm trying to avoid giving anyspoilers here, but this link talks about how long Tate/Noble might be around for.

I freely admit that I thought I was going to hate Donna Noble, based on her character in The Runaway Bride which seemed good for a one-off special but not for a whole series. They've surprised me by just how much I like her, and how good Tate actually is as a dramatic actress.
posted by penguinliz at 5:14 AM on June 17, 2008


And the previews for next week hint that they're bringing Rose Tyler back. Dammit. I hate Rose Tyler. I adore Donna Noble.

Ergh. I'm mad at myself for actually starting to watch that instead of turning it off early. The BBC has no idea how to do a preview properly and always seems to give away key plot twists or surprises.

They need to learn a lesson from the Sopranos or Lost. They could both deliver a preview that both (a) was very exciting and (b) told you absolutely nothing about what was going to happen.
posted by Gary at 1:11 PM on June 17, 2008


The Rose adulation was particularly irritating during Martha’s run as assistant, where every second conversation would be the Doctor moaning about about how wonderful Rose was and how he misses her. There’s been less of that with Donna, thank god. She’s actually turning out very well if you ask me, something I wouldn’t have expected from the special, so she’d be missed if she did go.

Russel T Davies listening to anyone on this one thing and ignoring them on every other thing seems pretty unlikely. If he’s dumping an assistant to bring Rose back it’s because he really, really likes rose for whatever reason.
posted by Artw at 1:55 PM on June 17, 2008


Jeffries = Davies

Yeah that's mildly embarrassing. Not sure where that came from. I got a brain like a sieve.
posted by ZachsMind at 8:57 PM on June 18, 2008


They should bring Mickey back, I liked Mickey. I was actually ridiculously pleased to see him in the awful cybermen/dalek thing.
posted by Artw at 10:45 PM on June 18, 2008


Finally, I'm pretty sure that the Doctor is the final cylon.

Me too. Doctor Cottle, that is.
posted by homunculus at 12:14 AM on June 19, 2008


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