Well, the old one was $399 with a two year contract, so it's still cheaper.
OTOH, it's not really that exciting a release, unless you want to debate the aesthetics of black plastic vs polished metal for the backplate. posted by smackfu at 2:08 PM on June 9
$10 * 12 = $120/yr
120 * 2 = $240 over the life of the contract
$199 + $240 = $439
yeah? posted by mrnutty at 2:13 PM on June 9
(and I refuse to find the NPV of the $240, because I'm not in school. take that, time value of money!) posted by mrnutty at 2:16 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
You can?t really get any phone without a ridiculous contract these days?.I don?t care?, I?m still getting one anyway?. posted by idiotfactory at 2:16 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
a rival of Research In Motion’s BlackBerry, the dominant smartphone that is so popular with corporate types that it’s been dubbed “the CrackBerry.”
Oops, only it's not call the CrackBerry because of its ubiquity but because of its supposed addictive powers. posted by Eideteker at 2:16 PM on June 9
Sorry.. by "iPhone 2.0" I am referring to the new iPhone hardware and not the iPhone 2.0 software that is free to "iPhone 1.0" owners. posted by basicchannel at 2:20 PM on June 9
basicchannel: the article claims that the old price was $20/mo. Is that incorrect? posted by a robot made out of meat at 2:24 PM on June 9
I don't really care *how* it's subsidized as long as I can still buy one at an Apple store in 5 minutes, activate it through iTunes and never have to talk to one of the shemps who works for AT&T. The signup process has always by far been the worst part of getting a new phone and I'm almost more thankful that Apple changed that than I am for the actual phone itself. posted by mikesch at 2:24 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
the software development kit and other tools for developers have the potential to be more important to Apple and its users than the specifics of this year’s phone.
Yup.
This is not the first software ecology for mobile devices.
But despite the fact that the iPhone is not the open nirvana lots of geeks would love it to be, it's going to be the best game in town and standard-setting because it combines:
(1) A point of purchase/deployment highly visible to consumers (something that's mostly the province of the carriers right now)
(2) Low barriers to entry for developers (both in ease and in getting placement on the store).
This isn't eliminating the walls on the garden, but it's a highway in and out, and it's going to make third-party software on mobile phones far more popular than it is now.
It also makes the iPhone a potential platform for competition with the PSP and DS. Note the mention of Sega this morning at the keynote.
Things are kicking into gear. I think it's finally 1995 for mobiles. posted by weston at 2:31 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
I think I'm old now. I don't need all the fancy stuff when it comes to a cell phone.
I only use my (older) cell phone for making phone calls. I might send or receive a text message twice a month, tops. It doesn't have a camera, either. Because I've had the same plan for 10 years, I only pay $34/month total, including all the random fees and I have oodles of minutes, free nights, weekends and long distance.
They aren't getting one more penny out of me until it's absolutely necessary. posted by trixare4kids at 2:31 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
In other news, you can save 100% of the cost of owning an iPhone by not buying one. Or any other cell phone.
Why do we need custom apps on the phone if the phone can connect to the internet anywhere? In other words, wouldn't it make more sense to have a phone that supports java or flash and simply create a website designed for the smaller screen of the iphone, rather than having to write custom apps, etc. If Excel is moving to an internet based environment, it's not clear to me why I need a special program to use ebay on my phone. posted by Pastabagel at 2:36 PM on June 9
I think the $10 * 12 = $120/yr is refering to the new price ($30 data +$40 voice) - old price ($60 data & voice). posted by yeti at 2:37 PM on June 9
I paid $100 for 1 year of cell service, Sept 2007-Sept 2008. When I top up the phone this September, I'm going to put $25 on it and that's good for another year until Sept 2009. I'm a total gadget freak (use my iMac, iPod video, nokia 770 and 870 and Palm TX all the time) but I don't believe in paying for cell phone plans. posted by wenat at 2:37 PM on June 9
In other words, wouldn't it make more sense to have a phone that supports java or flash and simply create a website designed for the smaller screen of the iphone, rather than having to write custom apps, etc.
No, because 99.9% of the Java and flash apps on the web right now suck balls and have uniformly horrible user experiences. posted by gyc at 2:40 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Why do we need custom apps on the phone if the phone can connect to the internet anywhere?
Because it's a smaller size and has limited power. I get what you're saying, but building a custom app for cellphones seems like a logical exercise, especially if doesn't take much resources.
Now, building an app specifically for a single cell phone? That's crazy like a fox. Way to go Steve. posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:40 PM on June 9
And MobileMe? Sounds like the name of a kids LeapFrog program. posted by R. Mutt at 2:44 PM on June 9
I'm not buying one until it can solve the crisis in the Middle East. posted by mattbucher at 2:46 PM on June 9
Wake me up when I can get a cellphone and install any software I want to on it like a PC, and use it with any provider I choose.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the old TV bandwidth that will be coming online with open access rules. But for now the entire mobile market is a ripoff giant rip off, Apple included. Android phones might be more open, but I bet providers will cripple the devices anyway. posted by delmoi at 2:48 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
for real? an sdk is changing the industry? there's a friend of mine who, despite being a firm apple fanatic, has made the claim that there is a Reality Distortion Field surrounding Steve Jobs at all times, such that any announcement he makes is all of a sudden "The Heralding of A New Era." Life Will Be Forever Changed, shouts each crappy tech blog and news headline. Meanwhile, I (who do not own an iphone yet) was completely shocked to see the new features of iphone 2.0 today. Exchange support? Maps with gps? 3g? An sdk? My windows mobile phone has had that shit for years, AND it supports stereo bluetooth headsets, which the iphone doesn't.
I mention this not to claim that my phone is better, but because I was completely shocked to realize that I thought the iphone was feature complete, that it could do everything mine did AND THEN SOME, and that I was truly lacking for not having one. This is the nature of the Reality Distortion Field. And what's ridiculous is that every time the newest announcement is made, the general message from the trenches is "FUCK your old [apple gadget]! That thing is garbage, you need the new one now, because THIS one is going to deliver on all those promises we made you from the last one!" And no one sees the disconnect. There are a number of things apple has done well and first. They're a marvelous company, but the crazy nebula of completely aggrandized horse shit that surrounds that guy is just incredible.
I guarantee you that the sdk is going to create a legion of cheap-ass homebrew nonsense apps just like it does for windows mobile and palm. For every really spiffy awesome app that makes your life easier, there'll be three thousand crappy "english to klingon dictionaries" and horoscope applications coded in 5 minutes by people who don't give a shit. The only thing that could make it even remotely more interesting on the iphone is the fact that mac addicts are rabid enough to make something really cool out of spite. posted by shmegegge at 2:51 PM on June 9 [16 favorites]
Having done some traveling with an iPhone, I don't think most folks are realizing just how transformative it is. It's carrying around a substantial fraction of human knowledge in your pocket, with an instant locator, map, and lookup device for nearly anything you might want. Almost any resource that modern civilization provides can be located on the fly and summoned to your location, with no additional hardware. With the addition of a GPS, it'll be even better; instant routing should be easy and painless. The big problem with the first generation map system was determining where you were, and with a GPS, this will be soooo much better.
If you don't travel much, I'm not sure it'll be all that much different than a regular phone, but if you do.... there's likely nothing in the world that you'll like better.
You know, I just realized this: in essence, the iPhone is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, version 0.02, restricted to single-planet navigation only. posted by Malor at 2:57 PM on June 9 [19 favorites]
Pastabagelwrites"In other words, wouldn't it make more sense to have a phone that supports java or flash and simply create a website designed for the smaller screen of the iphone, rather than having to write custom apps, etc."
The ebay app is a terrible example. You can make web apps for iPhone, this has been possible since launch and from what I see the ebay app would be fine running in a browser. However, to get something which can work with the iPhone's camera, network, gps, and accelerometer hardware there's no substitute for native apps. iPhysics and Camera Pro good example of this. posted by mullingitover at 2:57 PM on June 9
Having done some traveling with an iPhone
I was under the impression that the countires you could actually use teh thing in were pretty limited, and that a US iPhone would not necessarily work as an iPhone in the UK. posted by Artw at 3:00 PM on June 9
I like getting lost sometimes. I'll buy one when it does VoIP and I don't have to give any money to the criminal AT&T. posted by mike_bling at 3:01 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Well, my Treo 650 did actually cure AIDS, but it didn't do it with a lot of panache, so...
I guarantee you that the sdk is going to create a legion of cheap-ass homebrew nonsense apps just like it does for windows mobile and palm. For every really spiffy awesome app that makes your life easier, there'll be three thousand crappy "english to klingon dictionaries" and horoscope applications coded in 5 minutes by people who don't give a shit.
That's kinda the point, actually. What matters about it--and homebrew on any platform, from PCs to hacked game consoles, is that a whole bunch of them are gonna be useless to 99% of the potential audience--and indispensable to the other 1%. It's a long tail thing. posted by arto at 3:03 PM on June 9
for real? an sdk is changing the industry?
No. An SDK that sucks less combined with a high-profile distribution portal that sucks less (and is easier to put your app onto) is going to change the industry. posted by weston at 3:04 PM on June 9
Yes. When the original iPhone was released last year, it wasn't feature complete, but it was close enough. Sure there were things missing, but it worked reasonably well for 90% of people using it. What it did have was a new user interface and a polish that nothing else matched.
While RIM and Microsoft were sitting there resting on their old crappy touchscreens and garbage user interfaces, Apple was building something new. Multitouch is huge, not having the whole thing encumbered by a fixed keyboard is huge. The graphic capabilities are huge.
Now, after introducing the product and letting people get used to it, they're releasing the SDK for it. Sure, 90% of applications for it could very well be crap, but 90% of everything is crap. There will be great applications though because Apple has made those tools available for developers. You have a cell phone that has GPS capabilities, a great screen, is reasonably fast, has multitouch and a great UI. It's just so much better than the incremental upgrades that RIM and Microsoft have been releasing for the last decade.
So yes, it is going to change the industry because instead of cramming the same crap down people's throat year after year, MS and RIM are going to have to actually get their shit together and compete. They're still working off of the old crappy paradigms and Apple just came along and ate their lunch.
The things that Apple is doing seem obvious in retrospect and anyone else could have come along and done it. Now that Apple's done it, guess what everything for the next 5 years is going to look like and feel like?
So yes, it is industry changing. Apple's bringing the promises that everyone has been making about smartphones to fruition and everyone else is going to have to keep up.
We're also going to see a lot of the things that people have been complaining about become moot. Who needs MMS if everyone can get pictures via email on 3G in a couple of years, for instance. The ground just shifted out from under everyone's feet. posted by mikesch at 3:08 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
I'll buy one when it does VoIP and I don't have to give any money to the criminal AT&T.
I guarantee you that the sdk is going to create a legion of cheap-ass homebrew nonsense apps just like it does for windows mobile and palm.
Yes and No.
So, yes because every development platform attracts crap, even really closed ones like video game consoles (c.f. 'shovelware'). But it's hardly an indictment of the iPhone - 90% of everything is crap.
No, because Apple has the clout to get major content players to bring stuff to the iPhone that you won't see anywhere else, like the live play-by-play MLB updates. iTunes may not be perfect and Apple didn't invent the online music store but they sure as hell perfected it. You'll see stuff on the iPhone that won't be available anywhere else becuase Apple has the ability to forge media partnerships like no one else in the industry. I expect that every unfulfilled promise made by Palm and Nokia over the years will finally be delivered by the iPhone. Well, and the Blackberry. There will be a third-party turn-by-turn GPS app released and the iPhone will become a true digital swiss army knife. Imagine when someone ports Python to this thing and you can write iPhone code right on the handset. HAWT.
What's amazing to me is how quickly Nokia's fortunes have faded in the smartphone market. Too bad about that whole bet on Symbian guys. posted by GuyZero at 3:11 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
PLASTIC?
Okay, I am going to have to get my paws on this thing before I consider getting it. And maybe just get a used iphone 1 instead. Or a blackberry or something. posted by By The Grace of God at 3:22 PM on June 9
Like others, I'm still holding out until it does VOIP. My hope is that a future version will use Clearwire or some other 4G network, and I can tell AT&T to get bent.
I like the idea, but the actual final product at the price that they are asking is still too rich for my blood. posted by quin at 3:22 PM on June 9
mikesch, you're talking about the phone not the sdk. I'm still not seeing how homebrew on the iphone is going to bring about some kind of sweeping industry change. everything you pointed to was accomplished when they released the original iphone. Your comment reads like a press release.
There will be great applications though because Apple has made those tools available for developers.
this statement is meaningless. I don't know what you're trying to say. who else would the sdk have been released to?
arto: "That's kinda the point, actually. What matters about it--and homebrew on any platform, from PCs to hacked game consoles, is that a whole bunch of them are gonna be useless to 99% of the potential audience--and indispensable to the other 1%. It's a long tail thing."
No, I get that. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with homebrew. I'm saying we've already got it and it sounds like a lot of people have forgotten that. They're all acting like this is something nobody's done before when we've all been doing it for years, now. I mean, someone upthread wrote a comment unironically where they claimed that the iphone was transforming because they can now see themselves on a map with a gps while they're travelling. hang on a sec. oh hey, I just did that, too, and I don't even have an iphone. Hell I've posted to metafilter from my phone while getting directions to a movie theater and plotting them out with gps to tell us if we're going the right way. the iphone is great, don't get me wrong, but if it wasn't transforming before, then the fact that it is now that it's on the iphone sounds a hell of a lot like brand bias.
An SDK that sucks less combined with a high-profile distribution portal that sucks less (and is easier to put your app onto) is going to change the industry.
Hey I hope you're right. Define "sucks less" though? posted by shmegegge at 3:22 PM on June 9
I'm going to try not to dominate this thread, so after this I'll take a hiatus.
But it's hardly an indictment of the iPhone
I agree. If I'm indicting anyone, it's the press.
No, because Apple has the clout to get major content players to bring stuff to the iPhone that you won't see anywhere else,
Hey, I hope so. That sounds less like something revolutionary about the sdk, though, and more like something revolutionary about apple's corporate partnerships, but since I feel like I'm getting dangerously close to splitting hairs I'll leave it at "I hope so." When I see it I'll be very happy and I'll start saving up to buy one, without a doubt.
iTunes may not be perfect and Apple didn't invent the online music store but they sure as hell perfected it.
this statement isn't all that consistent. I believe you're trying to say that apple has set the standard for what an online music store currently is. I agree. I assume you're saying this because of all the major labels they got to partner into their store? If so, then hey here's hoping it works out. But until it actually happens, this is all more apple hype, no? I mean, every time the dude opens his mouth, the rumor mills start going on and on about the possibilities. Remember when nobody knew what the macworld announcement was before they announced the iphone, and the rumors sites, before they finally picked up the iphone rumor, were insisting it would be a set top gaming box with apple tv functionality and full bluetooth integration and every other nerd wet dream you can think of? this is what I'm talking about. Yes, those things would be great. Yes, they are just speculation, though. posted by shmegegge at 3:34 PM on June 9
That NYTimes blog peice seems more than a little over-the-top - "OMG APPLE INVENTED SDKS!".
I'm still kind of waiting for other phone manufactures to step up their game on the UI side to match the iPhone. Doesn't really seem to be happening yet. posted by Artw at 3:36 PM on June 9
I'm curious... you people in iPhone-sanctioned countries: what do you pay in a month for the iPhone--and I'm curious about those of you who use it whenever you wish, visiting youtube and google maps, etc., whenever you please?
Cause I did this in a non-sanctioned country (canada) and got a $427 bill. (The company axed the bill after my smooth as butter phonecall but still...) posted by dobbs at 3:37 PM on June 9
So a new iPhone huh? How exactly did they improve the phone part of it? posted by lilkeith07 at 3:43 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
You know, I appreciate good design and all, but I'm not feeling the need for this crazy expensive beauty. Maybe it's because I barely use my cell in the first place.
All day people were asking me if I would be getting an iPhone, and my response was "Hellz no. My 1999 Motorola Timeport is all I need."
(It really is. I never thought an almost 10 year old phone would have text messaging, but apparently it really is a timeport) posted by yellowbinder at 3:44 PM on June 9
You know, I just realized this: in essence, the iPhone is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, version 0.02, restricted to single-planet navigation only.
That's the internet. An Iphone is a small device which provides wireless access to the internet; one of many. posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 3:45 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
Imagine when someone ports Python to this thing and you can write iPhone code right on the handset. HAWT.
Yeah, writing Python with one finger on a touchscreen - I can't wait!
Hey, dominate away. Everyone gets into a thread once in a while.
this statement isn't all that consistent
uh, yeah, sorry. Sometimes I get lost between the beginning and the end of sentence. I blame my (non-existent) editorial staff. But you basically got it.
What really cheezes me is how long I'm going to have to wait for Android. What I want is the MS-DOS of mobile phone OS's - something that is truly open and stimulates a mobile handset market the same way that DOS did back in the 80's. (anyone else remember when Compaq broke through an came up with a PC whose processor ran at a different speed than the bus?) Unfortunately, until carriers are forced to open up their networks and the new 700 Mhz spectrum becomes available I don't hold out much hope. WinMo kind of does this already in that it runs on a variety of devices but somehow it still stinks. Until something really awesome happens, the iPhone is as close as it's going to get. posted by GuyZero at 3:53 PM on June 9
OK I think the iPhone is neat and everything. But some of the things being touted as special to the iPhone, really isn't.
Play by Plays from the MLB? I can get that just fine on my Samsung SCH-u740 on Verizon. Instant locator map? Finding things that are nearby? Yeah I can do that on my phone as well. The GPS works so well on for me I will likely never buy a traditional GPS.
I can get and receive e-mail. Even with push. Search Wikipedia, etc...
This isn't the wonder of the iPhone, it's the wonder of mobile computing and mobile web.
I expect a hell of a lot more out of an iPhone than what my modest pseudo-smart phone can do. posted by MrBobaFett at 3:53 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
So a new iPhone huh? How exactly did they improve the phone part of it?
Longer battery life, "drastically improved audio," contact search & over-the-air syncing. Also, if you've never tried making or managing phone calls and voicemail on an iPhone, you should check it out. It's far from an afterthought.
For what it's worth, Obama uses a Blackberry… Actually, he made the switch.
Oh, thank Jeebus. I was scared that I'd have to respect Karl Rove more than Obama for a minute. I guess there's no question what Al Goreuses. posted by designbot at 3:59 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Having done some traveling with an iPhone
I was under the impression that the countires you could actually use teh thing in were pretty limited, and that a US iPhone would not necessarily work as an iPhone in the UK.
He didn't say international travel - and the US is still a damn big country. posted by Tomorrowful at 4:01 PM on June 9
It's carrying around a substantial fraction of human knowledge in your pocket, with an instant locator, map, and lookup device for nearly anything you might want. Almost any resource that modern civilization provides can be located on the fly and summoned to your location, with no additional hardware.
See, I've got a Nokia. Don't even remember the model number. It has Opera Mini on it. Within Opera Mini, I can load maps, Google, Wikipedia, hell Metafilter even. It is very cool having a "substantial fraction of human knowledge in your pocket", but it may surprise you to know that an iPhone isn't necessary for this. posted by Jimbob at 4:03 PM on June 9 [5 favorites]
From experience: location-based search is insanely convenient when traveling. Tap the "show my location" button. Then search for something. It pinpoints the results near you on a map, and you're even about one touch away from driving directions. Seemingly simple and obvious, but for some reason the incumbent providers never seem interested in coming up with this sort of thing. I give apple credit not for being brilliant but for simply doing the shit that's been technically feasible for years when the entrenched powers were simply too lazy and complacent to bother. posted by George_Spiggott at 4:09 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
MrBobaFettwrites"But some of the things being touted as special to the iPhone, really isn't."
It's not really the feature list that's appealing, it's the way the features are presented. The design is such that the user is more likely to use the features. For example, the iPhone is far from being the first phone to offer a browser. However, it is the first 'mobile' browser which doesn't make me want to stab my eyes out every time I try to use it.
I got an iPhone to replace a Cingular 8125 smartphone. In terms of feature list, the 8125 has the iPhone beat hands down. However, the implementation of those features in the iPhone is so much more polished and carefully implemented, it's like comparing the scrawlings of a kindergartener to Da Vinci. posted by mullingitover at 4:10 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
Oh, thank Jeebus. I was scared that I'd have to respect Karl Rove more than Obama for a minute. I guess there's no question what Al Gore uses.
I too decide who to respect based on their mostly meaningless brand affiliations! posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:10 PM on June 9 [6 favorites]
the iPhone is the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, version 0.02, restricted to single-planet navigation only
The thing that I don't understand is, if you're not travelling, there's no real point having a Guide, is there? I mean, honestly, just because you can access the vast cumulative collective knowledge of the planet when you go out to buy some milk, is that vast knowledge going to substantially change your milk buying experience?
I just can't shake the feeling that the iPhone, like Palm (and WindowsCE) devices, are a bit of a hammer looking for a nail. I'm no luddite--I loves me a good gadget as much as the next geek. But I never got a Palm PC for the same reason I won't get an iPhone: it would just end up being one more useless device that I end up playing with more often then actually using.
If I want access to the Hivemind, it's probably because I'm either working or relaxing at home. Either time, I'll have a much more enjoyable experience using a laptop or PC. Larger keyboard, a mouse, bigger display to show more information, faster, greater amount of tools available, easier interaction with said tools... the list goes on and on.
My coworker has the non-contract version of the iPhone (forget what it's called... might just be called the New iPod for all I know). The only time I see him using it is when he's showing someone his iPhone. If he wants to email someone, he's got a full-on computer right there at his desk. The WiFi is spotty, but hey look! The computer on his desk has Cat-6 going to a gigabit switch.
I suppose if you wanted to be an uuber-pimp IT administrator, you could find a public WiFi spot under a shady tree and spend your days drinking lattes while slowly going blind trying to remotely administer your network through an SSH client on your tiny-ass 2" x 3" iPhone screen while not looking like a complete idiot.
Or, if you travel a lot, and you get lost a lot, and you have very poor social interaction skills that would prevent you from talking to someone and getting directions, and lack the capacity for spacial position due to being dropped on your head as a child... well, the iPhone can get you where you're going in, like, the most awesomest way possible.
To me, it's interesting watching this company get into a new market. It has certain epic feel to, like "Are they going to fail? Succeed? Ok, they've made that move, now what? and how is the competition going to fight back?"
It's like a schoolyard fight from the comfort of air conditioning. posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:16 PM on June 9
when you go out to buy some milk, is that vast knowledge going to substantially change your milk buying experience
Sometimes you're doing something besides buying milk. But I have a suggestion: if you don't want one, don't buy one. I'm kind of that way about game consoles. WTF would I want with one? But I have never gone into a thread about game consoles and asked that -- the fact that I don't give a rat's ass about game consoles, don't know where I'd find the time to play with one or why I'd want to is not interesting to other people: to do so would be nothing but an obnoxious pose -- more or less exactly like "is this something I'd need a TV to know about?" posted by George_Spiggott at 4:22 PM on June 9 [8 favorites]
There's another way in which iPhone 2.0 will be groundbreaking: malware. posted by scalefree at 4:24 PM on June 9
See, I've got a Nokia. Don't even remember the model number. It has Opera Mini on it. Within Opera Mini, I can load maps, Google, Wikipedia, hell Metafilter even. It is very cool having a "substantial fraction of human knowledge in your pocket", but it may surprise you to know that an iPhone isn't necessary for this.
Let's say you're driving and need to figure out directions. Happens to all of us, right? Can your Nokia tell you where you are? posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:26 PM on June 9
delmoi: come to Asua. posted by divabat at 4:28 PM on June 9
delmoi: come to Asia. posted by divabat at 4:28 PM on June 9
There's another way in which iPhone 2.0 will be groundbreaking: malware.
That article has nothing concrete in it about said malware, but you can hear the blogger's scaly hands wringing as he writes his fiction, nonetheless. posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:29 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
ok, for someone who travels us/uk frequently and primarily uses email rather than phone would iphone or blackberry be more sensible/ cost effective if i were going to upgrade from my t-mobile that works both places but is read only on the email essentially... posted by Maias at 4:29 PM on June 9
Civil_Disobedient
I guess it all depends on your approach to life and how you use the device. Why would I need to use the internet while I'm at the store getting milk? Because I saw they have shrimp on sale and I think it would be nice to get some and make Shrimp Curry, but I don't remember the ingredients I need to make it. I don't carry my cook book around with me, unless of course I could have it in the form of an e-book, in which case why not. So even if I do have my cook book, maybe I don't have curry in my cook book, that's what the internet is for.
I use both my Palm and my MobileWeb phone a lot. I suppose I could pull over (er well get off the highway, go down a road and hope to find an open gas station) and then ask someone else for directions. Of course there is no guarantee they will know the way any better than I. In fact a few times I have used my GPS phone because someone else asked me for directions they didn't have. So still the answer came from a GPS just not theirs, it would seem more convenient to them if they did have their own. Also my GPS can take into account traffic, including accidents and unlike a paper map get updates when a bridge is build or an exit is closed for construction.
Yes a full sized computer is nice for surfing/checking e-mail but not always practical. I don't find myself at my desk everyday. I have to go visit clients, sit on the "L"/Amtrak/bus for hours, be on a remote job site. posted by MrBobaFett at 4:30 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Let's say you're driving and need to figure out directions. Happens to all of us, right? Can your Nokia tell you where you are?
My first point will be that, where I live, it's against the law to use a cellphone in a moving vehicle. I guess I could stop and use my iPhone to tell me where I was. I could also just look for signs and landmarks as well.
My second point is that (and I may be a unique little snowflake here) I can't remember the last time I was driving and didn't know where I was. Sometimes, sure, I might not know the route to somewhere else, which is why my road atlas is such a useful $25 piece of technology, but not knowing where I am? I honestly can't say it's ever been a problem. posted by Jimbob at 4:35 PM on June 9
That's comparing like-for-like: It would be reasonable to compare last year's 8GB phone with this year's 16 GB phone; even more money up front but ten bucks less every month.
For every month you keep the phone after the 20th month, the total cost of the first-gen iPhone gets ten bucks cheaper than the second-gen iPhone.
Despite that, I'm counting my pennies and hoping to get a second-gen iPhone. And, above all, hoping I 3G service arrives here before too long, so that I'm not paying ten bucks more for exactly the same data rates as the early adopters. posted by ardgedee at 4:36 PM on June 9
My first point will be that, where I live, it's against the law to use a cellphone in a moving vehicle. I guess I could stop and use my iPhone to tell me where I was. I could also just look for signs and landmarks as well.
Or you could just hand your phone over to a passenger.
but not knowing where I am? I honestly can't say it's ever been a problem.
Your paper road atlas will, on demand, tell you within +/- x number of yards where you are? That's amazing! posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:38 PM on June 9
Some people aren't so busy looking at their Iphones that they don't pay attention to the route they're following. posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:41 PM on June 9
Your paper road atlas will, on demand, tell you within +/- x number of yards where you are?
No, I mean I've never had the experience of not knowing where I am. Sometimes I don't know how to get to where I want to be from where I am, but that's a different thing.
Do people just drive around randomly then suddenly think to themselves, "Shit, where the hell am I? I guess I could glance over there at that street sign, or look for the name of the suburb on that shopping mall across the road, or I could read that big green sign up ahead that appears to have some kind of arrow pointing to a freeway, but that's so Web 1.0. I'll fire up the GPS!"
I have, admittedly, driven in a car with a dashboard GPS once. My dad's. My understanding is that it cost $120 and there was no monthly fee or contract involved. posted by Jimbob at 4:45 PM on June 9
Also it had a really fucking annoying posh English accent. posted by Jimbob at 4:48 PM on June 9
I bet Jobs was pissed when they told him he couldn't wrap his radios in metal. posted by ryanrs at 4:48 PM on June 9 [6 favorites]
There's another way in which iPhone 2.0 will be groundbreaking: malware.
Uh, yeah, a platform where every application has a cryptographic signature guaranteeing that it comes from an authorized developer who ponied up $100 to Apple and verified their identity, and security is managed by a UNIX-based operating system, and the only way to load applications is to get them reviewed and verified for distribution through Apple, and Apple can disable or uninstall any application at the first sign of mischief…
I'm sure it will be a terrifying nightmarescape of nonstop hackery, the likes of which Windows Mobile users have never known. posted by designbot at 4:52 PM on June 9 [6 favorites]
Do people just drive around randomly then suddenly think to themselves, "Shit, where the hell am I? I guess I could glance over there at that street sign, or look for the name of the suburb on that shopping mall across the road, or I could read that big green sign up ahead that appears to have some kind of arrow pointing to a freeway, but that's so Web 1.0. I'll fire up the GPS!"
I'm not sure what the state of road signage is in Australia, but if it's anything like the UK, where it's easy to use road signs to find where you're going, especially as soon as you hit the next roundabout, then I can see that argument.
But in the US, signage can be very unclear, contradictory or non-existent. Outside NYC, particularly, it's easy to get lost and trapped on a stretch of highway, and it can take up to an hour to find some exit and on-ramp combination to get back in the right direction. posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:56 PM on June 9
However, it is the first 'mobile' browser which doesn't make me want to stab my eyes out every time I try to use it.
This pretty much sums it up. Why hasn't anyone else been able to implement a reasonable mobile browser yet? I tried the Blackberry Curve this weekend, thinking "maybe this will be the one..." Nope; it's not. I seems like such a basic thing, but only the iPhone has been able to manage it so far. posted by mr_roboto at 5:01 PM on June 9
I just can't shake the feeling that the iPhone, like Palm (and WindowsCE) devices, are a bit of a hammer looking for a nail.
To the extent this is true, it reminds me of the story of the home computer. They were put out long before most people could really figure out what to do with them, and by and large, most people don't really need them. A typewriter, calculator, and phone will get you by, and correspondingly, most people use their computers for writing, maybe a bit of home bookkeeping, and some information lookup and communication. But as it turns out, software can help that same device fulfill a thousand little niche needs.
But honestly, the hammer looking for a nail statement doesn't ring true to me. The iPhone from its inception has had a very clear purpose: be an excellent convergence device. Model #1 was an excellent combination of an iPod and a cell phone. It was one way of solving the problem of having to carry two devices. They threw in a few other things.
(And probably figured out some other things about convergence directions in the process.) posted by weston at 5:03 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
But in the US, signage can be very unclear, contradictory or non-existent. Outside NYC, particularly, it's easy to get lost and trapped on a stretch of highway, and it can take up to an hour to find some exit and on-ramp combination to get back in the right direction.
That's fair enough. Look I can see the utility of having multiple functions packed into a single, convenient device. But I'm also, personally, fighting giving away all my own skills and mental abilities to technology. My dad (with the dashboard GPS) is retired - he worked for 40 years as an agricultural pump sales rep, traveling all over Australia for his work. He knows the place like the back of his hand. He's never had difficulty getting from one place to another in the past. And yet he went and got a GPS, and now asks it to tell him routes to travel between places he's been going between for most of his life. I find more joy in figuring it out for myself. But then, I love maps.
iPhone discussions always resolve into the same arguments. Non-iPhone owners think the iPhone owners have been affected by the disinformation field mentioned above - a case of the emperor's new clothes. iPhone owners think the non-iPhone owners are a bunch of jealous luddites. But what we're all talking about, after all, is a bloody telephone. posted by Jimbob at 5:04 PM on June 9
I find more joy in figuring it out for myself. But then, I love maps.
I love maps too. But overlaying a traffic heatmap on top of a Google map is really helpful, and I still get to scratch that childhood itch to draw imaginary lines on a map, to find the best route from where I am. I don't think the technology takes away from being able to fulfill that instinctive need. posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:08 PM on June 9
This is pretty iPhone 1.5. It's nice that it's cheaper, and GPS is great, but not improving the camera or storage space (2MP and 16Gb) were two big letdowns for me.
16Gb is not enough for the music I like to carry, let alone all the data and apps that will eat up space. Which means I'm still carrying an iPod, too.
I would pay more for a 48Gb iPhone with a 4MP camera. No option for that, though. posted by rokusan at 5:16 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Let's say you're driving and need to figure out directions. Happens to all of us, right? Can your Nokia tell you where you are?
It will if it's one of the half dozen or so Nokia's with built in GPS, or one of the dozens that work with a GPS fob. posted by markr at 5:21 PM on June 9
As much as I love my Nokia E51 (selected it over an unlocked iPhone 1.0), I must say that a 3G device with GPS and a touchscreen for less than SGD 500 would be game-changing. Most touchscreen phones go for about S$700 (except for the Sony Ericsson P1 that recently had a price-correction), so S$500 for an iPhone is a steal. Nokia's 6xxx Navigator phone went for about SGD 600 in December last, and it didn't have touchscreen.
[(USD 200 == SGD 260) + SGD 200-ish for the two-year contract = SGD 500-ish] posted by the cydonian at 5:22 PM on June 9
16Gb is not enough for the music I like to carry
Really? 8gb feels like to me, but 16gb sounds comfy for several days of music, a few apps and a movie or two. posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:23 PM on June 9
Watching the keynote that loopt guy apparently was going for the 'best imitation of a deviant clown' award.
But seriously, why stop at two polos? Think how cool four or five, or heck even 19 polos would look? Teh awesome.
Let's say you're driving and need to figure out directions. Happens to all of us, right? Can your Nokia tell you where you are?
Um, of course? Cellphones have had GPS capabilities for years. Here is a youtube video of someone using GPS on a nokia N95, a video posted a year and a half ago. here is an MSNBC article talking about how Nokia plans to add GPS capability to half of it's phones. According ot the article, there are five models with GPS capability out already, with four more coming out this summer.
I mean seriously, Blazecock Pileon do you actually think that the iPhone is the first phone with GPS? posted by delmoi at 5:30 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
I would pay more for a 48Gb iPhone with a 4MP camera. No option for that, though.
Yes and I would like a SUV that gets 40 MPG and does 0-60 in 8 seconds. No option for that though.
Seriously, of course there's no option for that. 48Gb of SSD costs several times the retail price of the iPhone. And with a tiny, shitty, fixed plastic lens 4MP will give you nothing more usable than what you get with the iPhone today.
Eventually you will indeed get it all but not today for $200. Keep dreaming of that shining city upon a hill though.
I mean seriously, Blazecock Pileon do you actually think that the iPhone is the first phone with GPS?
So, at the risk of speaking for his blazing-cock-ness: find me another phone that can be purchased for $200 that can, out of the box, tell me where I am. The N95 is, what, $500? $700?
As a previous commenter notes, GPS manufacturers should be scared of this (and the Blackberry). For $200 plus some third-party software I get a GPS plus, hey, a mobile phone and a video iPod that browses the web. For less than a standalone GPS unit! posted by GuyZero at 5:41 PM on June 9
You don't have to pay $70 a month for a standalone GPS, do you? posted by MegoSteve at 5:45 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
One thing that's surprisingly absent from the discussion, and easily one of the most annoying parts of the iphone: that infernal GSM speaker buzz. Does anyone know if the 3g iphone is going to fix that? posted by mullingitover at 5:48 PM on June 9
Question from the ignorant; how does the iPhone store it's maps for the GPS? Does it have maps stored in memory, like a normal GPS unit does, or does it continuously download the maps from Google Maps?
Because if it's the later, normal GPS systems win by far, particularly in more remote areas. posted by Jimbob at 5:49 PM on June 9
MegoStevewrites"You don't have to pay $70 a month for a standalone GPS, do you?"
You do if your GPS has a cell phone with a data plan. If you don't pay your phone bill, I believe the iphone's GPS will still work. posted by mullingitover at 5:49 PM on June 9
Brandon Blatcher - The problem with 16gb is that I can't carry ALL of my music. So I have effectively unlimited choices in my music. My Zune lets me do that. My TX can also play MP3s but I'm sticking with my Zune for MP3 playback because it is a better dedicated device. All in one devices are nice, but not when I have a dedicated device that does that one function better. posted by MrBobaFett at 5:53 PM on June 9
Of what use is having every song you own? What percentage of music would you listen to regularly? I imagine most people listen to 20% of their music collection 80% of the time. Diminishing returns and all that. posted by oxford blue at 5:59 PM on June 9
I don't really care *how* it's subsidized as long as I can still buy one at an Apple store in 5 minutes, activate it through iTunes and never have to talk to one of the shemps who works for AT&T.
Looks like they'll have to be activated in-store, which sucks for all the above reasons. Wonder how they will handle it on the online store?
Maybe it's to combat people like me, who unlocked their iPhones 30 minutes after purchase and never gave a dime to AT&T. posted by porn in the woods at 6:04 PM on June 9
I've got a substantial fraction of human knowledge ... in my pants!
Why does anyone need an iPhone when we have DaShiv? posted by lukemeister at 6:04 PM on June 9
Of what use is having every song you own?
'cause then you have unlimited choices. It's when you can't fit it all on your device, then you have to make choices and often what you choose to leave behind is what you want to listen to.
Blazecock Pileon: "Let's say you're driving and need to figure out directions. Happens to all of us, right? Can your Nokia tell you where you are?"
I don't know anything about Nokia, but my Sprint Windows Mobile phone can pinpoint my location to within a half metre on Google Maps using its built-in aGPS. Or if I boot up the iGuidance GPS software, I get a first-person screen perspective and a sexy Irish woman's voice giving me turn by turn directions. And I can activate it with a voice command, which is useful when you are driving.
I was amused watching Apple's 3G vs 2G demo for loading times. Like, hasn't the message for the past 18 months or so been that Apple's 2G somehow uses special sauce that makes it suck so mu less than regular EDGE than in many cases it *outperforms* 3G web access? Four legs were good, but two legs just got better! posted by meehawl at 6:06 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
If you don't pay your phone bill, I believe the iphone's GPS will still work.
I'd be surprised if it did. From what I've read so far it appears to use A-GPS, where the A is for "assisted". The cell network assists in rapid satellite location using up-to-the moment information, which would otherwise take time and CPU. The iPhone may have the ability to lock on without assistance, but many A-GPS systems do not and I don't know of any reason the iPhone would be different. posted by George_Spiggott at 6:08 PM on June 9
Yeah, but isn't that one of the undoubtable and undeniable (and inescapable) facts of life that we will always have to make choices that will be far from an 'perfect' end-game? Life is compromise after all. Besides, Even if it had double or triple or ten times more space there would still be people who would be forced to make these dreaded choices so it makes sense for Apple to offer two versions that will suit comfortably the vast person of the market, and allow them to offer it a price point that does likewise.
I'm sure there are people that would be happy with a real keyboard on the iPhone, or a small nuclear power cell; does it mean it's a bad/flawed device because it doesn't have every feature that everyone wants? Or does it mean its flawed because a tailored device does a factor of its feature set (subjectively) better? I'd argue not. We have to accept that market forces will mostly force products that cause the maximum amount of happiness (even if that maximum is comparatively low i.e 5,5,5,5 units of happiness as opposed to 10,3,2,2) in the maximum amount of people.
I get where you're coming from, of course, but Marge said I could play Devil's Advocate. posted by oxford blue at 6:20 PM on June 9
I'm not getting an iPhone 'till that fucking partnership with Aperture plays out. I don't care if the portals are smaller than on a full-sized device. :P posted by BeerFilter at 6:25 PM on June 9
for real? an sdk is changing the industry?
An important thing to understand about technology adoption and platform building is that the system -- sum of the parts -- is a a multiplicative process not an additive one. Eg. one weak link in the system torpedoes the entire thing.
Eg. the Amiga had several pieces of the puzzle SOLVED but had a couple of achilles heels that fatally hobbled it.
Let's say the magic threshold of success is the notional value 0.5, and the necessary and sufficient features of an offering are rated from 0.0 to 1.0.
For the offering to succeed, we multiply the values, not add them. This models the achilles heel phenomenon mentioned above.
So, with the iPhone we've got:
1) Developer base that can create 3rd party apps: 0.75
2) (Potential) User base: 0.9
3) SDK: 1.0
4) Hardware: 0.95
5) Marketing: 1.0
6) Distribution: 1.0
for a total notional value of ~0.6
Compare with Java:
0.9, 1.0, 0.8, 0.5, 0.1, 0.1 = 0.004
WinMo:
1.0, 0.9, 1.0, 0.8, 1.0, 0.2 = 0.144
IOW, in order to succeed in a game-changing way you've got to have all the ducks lined up. posted by tachikaze at 6:30 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
Do people just drive around randomly then suddenly think to themselves, "Shit, where the hell am I? I guess I could glance over there at that street sign, or look for the name of the suburb on that shopping mall across the road, or I could read that big green sign up ahead that appears to have some kind of arrow pointing to a freeway, but that's so Web 1.0. I'll fire up the GPS!"
I have frequently gotten lost in Manhattan, where I have lived most of my adult life. Try wandering around anywhere south of 14th St., where streets and avenues start to have names more often than numbers, and it's sometimes a long hike to the nearest reference point. Would you rather ask a kindly stranger for directions, or would you rather pull out a device that has a map with you automatically at the center of it and an arrow pointing in the right direction? (Hint: I'm sometimes the kindly stranger, and clearly I don't know where the fuck I'm going.) posted by Epenthesis at 6:43 PM on June 9
I'm not getting an iPhone 'till that fucking partnership with Aperture plays out. I don't care if the portals are smaller than on a full-sized device. :P
posted by BeerFilter at 11:25 AM on June 10 [+] [!]
I'm not getting an iPhone until they (finally) ditch OS X and install GLaDOS. I could imagine it threatening to kill me when I'm late on paying my bills, or rewarding me, , when I do something well. posted by oxford blue at 6:44 PM on June 9
Way to ruin a joker metafilter...I meant...
…or rewarding me, [subjectnamehere], when I do something well. posted by oxford blue at 6:45 PM on June 9
If someone could case-mod a 3G Iphone that looked like a Communicator from ST:TOS?
I'd pay serious cash for that.
I moved out of my mom's basement years ago.
Just think it'd be cool. posted by Dizzy at 6:46 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
GuyZero: A Nokia 6110 can be bought for $AU 250 on ebay is a GPS and a phone.
It's been out for over a year. It rocks. I have one in my pocket. It does turn by turn voice directions.
I have used it in the car to get me where I need to go.
Whilst it has Opera on it it is not a good web browser. The screen is too small. The iphone wins on that count.
It plays mp3s as well as my ipod Nano. And without having to deal with the one computer lock of itunes.
The 6110 only takes 2GB micro SD cards. No doubt Nokia will make a successor that can take micro SD HC cards. posted by sien at 7:03 PM on June 9
16Gb is not enough for the music I like to carry, let alone all the data and apps that will eat up space. Which means I'm still carrying an iPod, too.
I would pay more for a 48Gb iPhone with a 4MP camera. No option for that, though.
That summed it up for me, except that they can scrap the camera to free up space for other things; I have real cameras if I want to take pictures. I had been telling my wife that today they would bring out the iPhone I want and when there was no announcement of a big storage capacity upgrade I tuned out and told her not to get me an iPhone for fathers day. I still resent Apple for bringing out the Fat Mac right after I bought a 128K Mac in 1984; I like their stuff but Apple does not reward early adopters. posted by TedW at 7:06 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
SNARK SNARK SNARK I'M BETTER THAN ALL YOU MOTHERFUCKERS WITH MY NOKIASAMSUNGANDROID GHSR-23838268340893s WITH WINMO 2010 WERD MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!
Now somebody slap a "Metafilter:" on the front of that, pleez. posted by fungible at 7:07 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
It's important that people know how individual and discerning and savoir-faire-tech you are by your totally better-than-the-iPhone-but-begrudgingly-not-quite-in-these-crucial-categories is. posted by oxford blue at 7:18 PM on June 9
AT&T hands over your life to the government without even being asked, let alone subpoenaed
This is one Apple product I will not buy until it is unlocked to work with other carriers, because I will not do business with AT&T
I strongly urge any of you who care about the abuse of state power by the Bush administration to join me in this, shiny iPhone or not posted by fourcheesemac at 7:19 PM on June 9 [3 favorites]
My Iphone is quite handy when my Ipod's battery dies.
Really, it's a toy. A fun toy that was marketed well. I like that it's a toy, and hate that I was successfully marketed to. It's just really hard to be iconoclastic about everything, even if you are a unique snowflake. posted by Arquimedez Pozo at 7:26 PM on June 9
I would pay more for a 48Gb iPhone with a 4MP camera. No option for that, though.
Yes and I would like a SUV that gets 40 MPG and does 0-60 in 8 seconds. Eventually you will indeed get it all but not today for $200. Keep dreaming of that shining city upon a hill though.
Since you decided to change my point, let me clarify: I would pay DOUBLE for a 32Gb iPhone. Tell me how 32Gb of storage would cost more than two 16Gb iPhones? posted by rokusan at 7:29 PM on June 9
I'm not getting an iPhone until they (finally) ditch OS X and install GLaDOS. I could imagine it threatening to kill me.
Oxfordblue, thanks for giving me my first iPhone programming project. Where should I send your royalties? :) posted by rokusan at 7:31 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
It isn't snarking fungible. It's comparison. posted by sien at 7:36 PM on June 9
Of what use is having every song you own? What percentage of music would you listen to regularly? I imagine most people listen to 20% of their music collection 80% of the time. Diminishing returns and all that.
I can't listen to even 1% of my music collection in a day. But the point is at the beginning of the day I don't have to choose what .5% or less I'm going to listen to that day. I can have it all and choose what I want to listen to from the full set on the fly. I LOVE that ability. posted by MrBobaFett at 7:37 PM on June 9
And without having to deal with the one computer lock of itunes
? iTunes has a 5 computer lock posted by tachikaze at 7:38 PM on June 9
Tell me how 32Gb of storage would cost more than two 16Gb iPhones?
OK. The iPhone probably has one or two chips that are the solid-state memory. Chances are the 16Gb version uses the highest density memory available today. (the 8Gb model uses either one less chip or a lower density part) Therefore to make a 32Gb iPhone they'd have to create a physically different board which would throw everything out of whack and probably isn't possible in the existing case. Ergo the addition of a $5 memory chip requires several million dollars of redesign work and a separate assembly line.
Anyway, the iPhone is a consumer device and as such is only going to be available in limited configurations regardless of whatever is technologically possible. posted by GuyZero at 7:51 PM on June 9
Therefore to make a 32Gb iPhone they'd have to create a physically different board which would throw everything out of whack and probably isn't possible in the existing case.
except there's a 32gb ipod touch, which blows this theory totally out of the water. posted by Hat Maui at 7:54 PM on June 9
Would any mobile device give you the ability to hold all your library? The biggest iPod is only 160GB so even if my calculations* are anywhere near right it's still going to be far too small to hold your collection.
(*I assume roughly 1.5 GB = day of music (based on the fact that the rolling stone's top 500 is 1.2 days listening at 1.75GB). So, assume 1% of your collection is around 2-3GB, therefore your collection is around 200-300GB, give or take a few hundred GB? NOTA BENE: I'm very bad at maths.) posted by oxford blue at 7:56 PM on June 9
GuyZero, please stop telling us what is possible or impossible in a product you clearly know nothing about, all right? When your explanation of models includes "probably" and "chances are", you're clearly way out of your element and not helping with stuff about "assembly lines" and "millions of dollars of redesign work" that you're pulling right out of your... um, hat.
As Hat Maui pointed out, a 32Gb iPhone would be an easy decision for Apple, and it's probably inevitable, since the iPhone models mirror the iPod Touch models... which already come in 32Gb versions. For people carrying iPods bigger than 16Gb today (and that's a lot of people), this is a significant point. posted by rokusan at 8:10 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
And without having to deal with the one computer lock of itunes iTunes has a 5 computer lock...
Which you can redefine at any time by removing/replacing any of the five. It's reasonable and flexible enough for all but the very most exotic requirements. posted by rokusan at 8:11 PM on June 9
Would any mobile device give you the ability to hold all your library?
I agree that's not necessary. I checked and I have 17.5Gb of music on my iPod (a 40Gb 5.5G) right now, along with three 4Gb OSX disk images (my work in progress) and last night's episodes of a couple TV shows I may watch on the subway.
I have an (original) iPhone, too, which "smartly" contains the songs from the other iPod that I like the most, updated automatically when docked. But still, I hate carrying both. posted by rokusan at 8:14 PM on June 9
except there's a 32gb ipod touch, which blows this theory totally out of the water.
The iPod Touch also doesn't have a cellular radio, antenna, or a gps antenna. Those probably take up some significant space in a pretty small shell.
I imagine, though, that Apple could probably cram 32GB into the iPhone body...but I don't know if they could do that today and meet the $199 (subsidised) price point. I'm sure we'll see just that in a year or so. I'd bet that Apple decided to go for market share this round (by lowering the price) and going for the "low-hanging fruit" of 3G, GPS, and "enterprise" features first.
Flash memory will get cheaper and soon we'll all have phones with 32GB just lying around in a sock drawer.
Anyone know what the difference between the $30 unlimited data plan and the $45 business user unlimited data plan is? posted by yeoz at 8:17 PM on June 9
Businesses are suckers. posted by smackfu at 8:20 PM on June 9
no, seriously. is there any difference? like the exchange push stuff? posted by yeoz at 8:21 PM on June 9
Anyone know what the difference between the $30 unlimited data plan and the $45 business user unlimited data plan is?
From what I've been told, the only difference is that you pay $30 if you're a consumer, but $45 if you're a business customer, and that's the only difference, and has nothing to do with whether you will be able to access your company's Exchange server with the 2.0 upgrade. posted by gyc at 8:22 PM on June 9
oxford blue: "Would any mobile device give you the ability to hold all your library?"
That's why you use 3G service to access your movies and tunes remotely. You can roll your own or use something like SlingBox or Orb. I've been enjoying access to 3TB of online media over Sprint's network for a year now. posted by meehawl at 8:37 PM on June 9 [1 favorite]
Well that's impressive. Perhaps what we say today with the mobile me stuff Apple is making the first step towards such a content system. It's going to be interesting to see how it pans out.
The iPod Touch also doesn't have a cellular radio, antenna, or a gps antenna. Those probably take up some significant space in a pretty small shell.
I don't imagine there is a physical difference between a 8GB, 16GB, and 32GB flash memory 'card' (i.e. ram modules, cf cards, sd cards etc are all the same respective size no matter what their capacity.) I could be wrong, of course and the 32GB could break the trend and actually be bigger, but I don't think that's the case. Perhaps the expense, or limited supply makes it unfeasible for Apple to offer it? Or it could be planned for next year, or whenever iPhone sales need a little boost. posted by oxford blue at 8:48 PM on June 9
So far, I haven't seen one thing that the iPhone can do that my own phone (a Samsung SCH-i760) can't. However, I have to admit that the way the iPhone does some of these things is far better or slicker than my own phone. On the other hand, there are a lot of things that the iPhone can't do at all, that my phone can do easily. My GPS can announce directions using the voice of John Cleese. posted by me & my monkey at 8:56 PM on June 9
I don't imagine there is a physical difference between a 8GB, 16GB, and 32GB flash memory 'card'
Why not? Why do you assume that the storage system in the iPod Touch is the same physical size as that in the iPhone?
To put this another way, the maximum current capacity for a MicroSD card is 8 GB. If you have enough physical space in a device to hold a MicroSD card, but no other card, it doesn't really matter that CompactFlash is available in sizes up to 32GB. posted by me & my monkey at 9:00 PM on June 9
me & my monkey: "the maximum current capacity for a MicroSD card is 8 GB. If you have enough physical space in a device to hold a MicroSD card, but no other card, it doesn't really matter that CompactFlash is available in sizes up to 32GB."
The largest MicroSD card is currently 12 GB, and the 16 GB is out this July. Anyone who's seen the size of the MicroSD cards knows how ridiculously small 12 GB (or now 16 GB) can be made. If Apple wanted to "fit" 32 GB in its phone then it could - it's not a physical constraint but a margin constraint.
Anyway, time to update the 8 GB card in my phone. I quite like Apple's new phone, but Apple's endless avoidance of adding a memory card slot just irks me too much. I'm quite a fan of making old tech work for me way past its due date. I have a 2002-era MP3 player that originally shipped with 128MB now happily playing back 4 GB cards on Rockbox thanks to wildly expanding memory options. The idea that I could spend so much money to buy some otherwise nifty electronics that had been hobbled so as to block off memory card expansion is so... wasteful. posted by meehawl at 9:19 PM on June 9
I think from a stand point of efficiencies of scale and simplified logistics it would make sense for both units to use the same sort of memory. The memory units here and here do seem to look, at least to my eye, similar, despite being from different manufactures. However it appears they simply stick another flash unit in, as opposed to using another higher capacity chip. If that is the case then Apple may indeed be limited by physical space constraints. I'd love to find out for sure however. posted by oxford blue at 9:24 PM on June 9
When your explanation of models includes "probably" and "chances are", you're clearly way out of your element
Sheesh, you must have been a lot of fun in biology class. You're welcome to disagree with my theories about why there isn't a 32 Gb iPhone. Circuit board area constraints are one possibility. Limited appeal of a device at a higher price point is another. Lack of available supplies of memory chips of the necessary density to meet their manufacturing volume requirements is another possibility. I am, however, nowhere near out of my element.
Flash memory will get cheaper and soon we'll all have phones with 32GB just lying around in a sock drawer.
Well, denser, but denser == cheaper, so yeah, cheaper. posted by GuyZero at 9:27 PM on June 9
Denser == cheaper or denser =/= cheaper or denser ≠ cheaper? posted by oxford blue at 9:31 PM on June 9
Denser is the same as cheaper for integrated circuits. It costs Samsung (or whatever flash memory manufacturer) roughly the same amount of money to process a single wafer regardless of how many final chips they get out of it. Additionally, as individual chips get smaller the defect rate goes down because there are a fixed # of defects per wafer and the number of chips you get out of a wafer goes up, leading to a more efficient process and less wastage. While there's a lot of capital cost involved in developing higher resolution processes this doesn't impact the operation cost of producing chips. IC lithography is one of the few areas in engineering where you get better & cheaper at the same time. posted by GuyZero at 9:46 PM on June 9
I like how mobile phones allow you to txt or call people when outside the home or office. posted by UbuRoivas at 9:55 PM on June 9 [2 favorites]
You people who think Apple is competing by having an equivalent or larger list of features are so adorable.
"I thought the iPhone was doing as much or more of this list of things my phone does!" No, really. It's cute.
Have you learned nothing from the iPod? From their hilariously successful last 3-4 years of computer sales?
Dude, so much Money and Energy wasted over crap. posted by zouhair at 10:47 PM on June 9
Because happiness is objective right? posted by oxford blue at 11:15 PM on June 9
I know, I know...I'm an idiot. But...
I read these discussions and think, Yeah, it would be wonderful to just grab my GPS-enabled, 10 megapixeled, MicroSD-slotted, usable on any carrier, loadable with any OS I care to roll with unobtanium-cased, no contract required open-source mobile phone.
And I can't wait for the day when a phone containing all of these features is available. (Actually, I can. I'm worried that it will end up being something like this.) I'm glad that there are folks out there who are so keenly forward-thinking as to notice what's missing and who are also strong/smart enough to hold out until they get almost exactly what they want.
But you know what? All things considered, from what I can tell, the new iPhone may very well do just enough of what I actually need for now. Yes, it runs whatever Steve says it should run, nothing more. But. I. Don't. Care. (Okay; I don't care enough.) What it does (or will, pre-iPhone 3.0) run is, by and large, more elegant than anything else out there. Would it be cool to roll my own application, however I wanted to? Probably...if I actually cared about rolling my own. Nothing against those who do, but there are a lot of people who just want the damn thing to work.
I don't need to take all of my music with me when I travel. (Shouldn't I be enjoying things where I am, rather than bringing my house with me?) I don't need for my phone to be a Swiss Army Knife when it comes to video or photographs. (I've just gotten competent at using my 8 megapixel point and shoot.) I don't need the option of being able to do everything.
I dunno; I just wonder if...maybe we're getting a little spoiled, here. Just because we potentially can carry everything (my entire music collection! The ability to watch the all of the movies I could order via Netflix and watch at home, but on a device that fits in the palm of my hand!) and do anything (take studio quality video or photographs that would make the guy carrying his Leica everywhere cringe with jealousy!) in one package doesn't necessarily mean we should.
(Which doesn't mean that there isn't a market out there for The Perfect All In One, either. I'm just sayin'.)
This sort of argument seems to take place whenever there's a new release of anything. (Hasn't the recent series of discussions about Ultra-Mobile PCs been something like this? "It's the right size, but it's not fast enough!" "When are they going to make it so that it runs Ubuntu, but also handles this OS X application I like, runs full-screen video without a glitch, and basically does everything my dual-monitor desktop configuration does but in a smaller form factor and for no more than, say, $500?")
Maybe it's just me, but I guess I like not having every option--and at the same time, having my limited options delivered in an elegant fashion.
i, too, was disappointed that there was no 32GB iphone.
i'm sure it will come in time. when the iPhone 1 came out a friend of mine speculated that perhaps apple was using single level flash chips due to reliability concerns with multi-level flash. that could account for the smaller-than-you-might-have-thought capacities of the iPhone.
as others have pointed out the iPod touch has more room on its circuit board for more memory, given that it doesnt need all the phone hardware.
i know the guy that was responsible for the iPod touch hardware. i could ask him but then he'd probably have to kill me. posted by joeblough at 11:36 PM on June 9
souhair: not crap. iCrap. posted by sien at 11:42 PM on June 9
Yeah, it would be wonderful to just grab my GPS-enabled, 10 megapixeled, MicroSD-slotted, usable on any carrier, loadable with any OS I care to roll with unobtanium-cased, no contract required open-source mobile phone.
I also wish I could just grab a Turing-equivalent device to which it was practical to attach or run any, including self-made, peripherals and software, and which I could connect to arbitrary digital networks supporting sundry standardized protocols regardless of ownership. posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:53 PM on June 9 [4 favorites]
Does it still need itunes? If it does, they lost a sale. Needing itunes to activate a phone is realplayer levels of customer disrespect. posted by davemee at 4:42 AM on June 10
The iPhone from its inception has had a very clear purpose: be an excellent convergence device.
Why is it any different than Pocket PCs which have been around for almost a decade? Most WindowsCE devices have built-in cameras, play MP3s, sport mobile browsers, WiFi, often BlueTooth, GPS, etc. Why is the iPhone an excellent convergence device, while the hundreds of Palm-like devices that have come before are just false pretenders? posted by Civil_Disobedient at 4:52 AM on June 10
I seriously doubt that Apple wouldn't have designed the iPhone circuit board not to be able to take flash chips of different sizes. It may be that there are no 32 gb modules available right now that will fit, but if you think that the phone was designed with a 16 gb hard limit you're crazy. Obviously there is going to be a 32+ gb version at some point in the future. posted by delmoi at 4:54 AM on June 10
I've never really understood the American problem with mobile/cell phones. In the UK I've been using text messaging for about 13 years and mobile internet for about five. Right now I've got a crappy old Samsung D500 phone which, while only GPRS, happily pulls down wiki pages and lets me check out google maps, even giving me a pretty good estimate of my current location.
The company I work for has been building web content for mobiles for something like ten years, starting with WAP and now with multiple content streams for different ability machines, invisibly switched behind the scenes.
You don't need a smart phone for this, you certainly don't need an iPhone.
Mobile internet just doesn't turn on UK customers as much as it does American ones - the people who actually care about mobile internet have been doing it for years. They ones who don't care, don't care. posted by twine42 at 5:19 AM on June 10
Does it still need itunes?
No, they're activated at the store, by a clerk.
Needing itunes to activate a phone is realplayer levels of customer disrespect.
Sometimes, people take these things personally. posted by
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OTOH, it's not really that exciting a release, unless you want to debate the aesthetics of black plastic vs polished metal for the backplate.
posted by smackfu at 2:08 PM on June 9