Keep the lolxtian talk to a minimum

June 11, 2008 9:22 AM

"I wanted to ask for survival tips in case I am unexpectedly transported to a random location in Europe (say for instance current France/Benelux/Germany) in the year 1000 AD (plus or minus 200 years). I assume that such transportation would leave me with what I am wearing, what I know, and nothing else. Any advice would help." How to rock the Middle Ages with your bad 2008 self.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders (233 comments total)

I've looked at the first dozen or so comments, and it's interesting that most assume that the 21st century time traveler is at an advantage relative to the people he will encounter. Really, guys? Despite not speaking the language, not having any farming or construction skills, not having any real means of self-defense, etc.? I don't see "Teach them Bayes's Theorem" as realistic advice here.
posted by prefpara at 9:28 AM on June 11 [3 favorites]

Well, according to the Outlander series, Step 1 is to "Spread'em as wide as possible for the first brooding Scotsman you encounter."
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:29 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

From the link, about 10 comments down or so:

"Hasn't anyone heard of Mark Twain?"

Yes.
posted by ZakDaddy at 9:31 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

Burned as a witch within a week. If you're lucky.
posted by three blind mice at 9:31 AM on June 11

...not having any farming or construction skills

Speak for yourself. I would think a modern engineer, particularly mechanical, civil or architectural could do very nicely even back in Roman times. These people had good empirical knowledge of a lot of things, but it was hardly thorough. For instance, cathedral building. They figured out about flying buttresses and the like, but only by watching many cathedrals crumble and crack. How much money would a town save by having a knowledgable engineer predict what would and wouldn't work ahead of time?
posted by DU at 9:35 AM on June 11 [3 favorites]

How much money would a town save by having a knowledgable engineer predict what would and wouldn't work ahead of time?

And how do you know he is a witch?

He predicted what would and wouldn't work ahead of time.
posted by three blind mice at 9:37 AM on June 11 [7 favorites]

Please, this is the definition of hypothetical chatfilter. Wait, where am I?

Let's see, I'm wearing inexplicable textiles decorated with arcane runes, I'm wearing lenses made of yet another unprecedented material on my face in a manner that that's a few hundred years ahead of it's time, I'm speaking some bizzarro version of Anglo-Norman or whatever (I'm not a linguist) and I've somehow contrived to give a number of my teeth visible metal cores. Yeah, I'm going to get burned at the stake.
posted by nanojath at 9:37 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

This was the plot of the Dutch 1981 childrens book 'Kruistocht in spijkerbroek' ('Crusade in jeans').
Fun to read as a kid.
posted by jouke at 9:37 AM on June 11

Well I'll tell you what -- I have few technical skills to speak of, but I do carry along a sophisticated set of artistic skills. I can draw, paint, sing, play several instruments, and tell stories. I have a feeling that someone like me could do pretty well wherever and whenever s/he lands, assuming basics like language capability, clothing, access to a pool of patrons, etc. I'll hazard the guess that creatives might make good time travelers.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 9:38 AM on June 11

Build shelter out of stone. Don't keep livestock inside shelter. Keep rats out of shelter. Avoid plague. Win.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:38 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

First, you would need a chainsaw for a hand.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:39 AM on June 11 [37 favorites]

And here's an idea I've never even seen mentioned in the many books on ancient engineering I've read: What if the Romans had had a heat engine (steam or stirling) hydraulic pump? A phalanx of Newcomen engines, possibly operated by slaves, could have eliminated some of their needs for aqueducts.
posted by DU at 9:40 AM on June 11

These people seem to have very little understanding of what life was like in 1000 AD.
posted by Pollomacho at 9:40 AM on June 11

I'd call up John McCain and see how his childhood was going.
posted by allen.spaulding at 9:41 AM on June 11 [13 favorites]

Scribe? I would find the nearest monastery and hope (by which I mean pretend to pray) for the best. I can speak and read French, and with any luck at all could grok Old French and Latin quickly enough to make a go of it.

That and I can totally rock System V unix.
posted by everichon at 9:41 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

And how do you know he is a witch?

Meh. Don't be big and obvious about it. "Listen guys, I've build MACHINES THAT FLEW IN THE FACE OF GOD!" No. Just make some simple suggestions, build some clear, non-magical models and build up a reputation for being good, but not devilish.

Arts, that's a good idea. One could get a lot of mileage out of "stories from a distant land" based on truth from the future.
posted by DU at 9:43 AM on June 11

YE STORIE OF YE STARRE-BATTAILES...

Yeah, bard.
posted by everichon at 9:45 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Or a chemist. I don't remember the prerequisites, so this may not be possible in 1000 AD, but if you can make nitrogen fertilizer from the air and triple agricultural output, I don't think anyone is going to object to a little possible necromancy on the side.
posted by DU at 9:48 AM on June 11

Timeline.
posted by ericb at 9:49 AM on June 11

You can get rid of the language issue -- say it's a hundred years past the catastrophe (end of oil or whatever) and the carefully hoarded pre-apocalypse machines are gone. Voila, you're back in medieval Europe!
posted by phliar at 9:53 AM on June 11

nitrogen fertilizer? Bah! I'd use my chemistry skills to make lots of hard liquor. Should make me popular right?
posted by uandt at 9:55 AM on June 11

The elephant in the room that the comments on that page consistently ignore is that approximately 51% of people that this happens to are shit out of luck no matter what they do. I saw a total of one comment acknowledging that a woman this happened to would be in huge trouble no matter what skills she possessed. I suspect it would simply be a race to see what horrible fate befell her first.

The most likely result of this happening to anyone, man or woman, skilled or incompetent, is a relatively quick and painful death. For those who manage to survive, scraping by for a few years as a peasant and then starving to death is not unlikely.

Oh, and congratulations, you've probably caused the deaths of millions of people what with all your modern diseases and such. Not "New World" dieback levels, but it wouldn't be pretty either.
posted by Justinian at 9:56 AM on June 11 [9 favorites]

Build shelter out of stone. Don't keep livestock inside shelter. Keep rats out of shelter. Avoid plague. Win.

'Cause the year 800, or 1000, or 1200 are all the same as the mid 14th century! It's all OLD!
posted by Justinian at 9:57 AM on June 11

See also Connie Willis' Doomsday Book
posted by poppo at 9:58 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Besides the language issue and the "burn the witch" problems, the two best ideas I've seen yet on that list are:

* Become a bookkeeper, because you'll know more math with Arabic numerals than most.

* Boil water and sell it as a medicine. If you cured cholera in your region, I imagine people will start to like you.

Then again, I'm 6-foot-4, 280 pounds. They'll probably want to make me into a gladiator or something, and I'd get my ass kicked.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:58 AM on June 11

Most of the replies seem to follow this same basic logic:

1) Arrive in past. Know you are awesome and handsome because of your better diet.
2) Use your awesomeness to meet king. If threatened, breakdance.
3) Impress king with awesomeness/breakdancing skills. Become Chancellor.
4) Perhaps build something awesome, you know, with gears and shit.
5) Seduce queen (see: breakdance), sire many half-royal, half-awesome progeny.
6) Upon death of king, rule country as regent through children.
7) Inscribe a message to your future self on clay/stone/metal tablets alerting yourself about your impending timetravel and the need for adequate breakdancing skills.

When what's more likely is:

1) Arrive in past. Know that you are awesome and handsome because of your better diet.
2) Die horribly due to malnutrition, exhaustion, disease, animal attack, Viking attack, stake burning, eating the wrong mushroom, eating the right mushroom, parasites, or lack of internet access.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 9:58 AM on June 11 [55 favorites]

Why would such time travel leave you with what you're wearing? I think we all know that time travel requires nudity.

I don't think you'd have a good time today showing up nude randomly somewhere. Probably wouldn't be so swell a century ago either. Especially since, even if you landed in England, you'd probably still have a bit of a hard time understanding the locals.
posted by jammy at 10:00 AM on June 11

I would think a modern engineer, particularly mechanical, civil or architectural could do very nicely even back in Roman times. These people had good empirical knowledge of a lot of things, but it was hardly thorough. For instance, cathedral building. They figured out about flying buttresses and the like, but only by watching many cathedrals crumble and crack. How much money would a town save by having a knowledgable engineer predict what would and wouldn't work ahead of time?

I know two very distinct types of engineers. One is much like you describe, very practical, very adaptable. The other type is really good at working systematically through calculations and step-by-step processes, but without their computer modeling programs and graphing calculators and books of stress values couldn't engineer their way out of a wet paper bag. My sense is that engineering educations vary wildly, from extremely good to impressively bad, and that engineers vary at least as much.

From working on development projects in the third world (hardly the same as 1000AD, but still an example of working in a constrained environment with few tools, no or irregular electricity, communications difficulties, etc, my experience is that most first-world carpenters, engineers, architects, etc, have great difficulty providing anything of value when you take away the things they rely upon (computers, electricity, skilled workers, etc). Engineering (and architecture and all of the skilled trades) are really easy in a resource-rich environment with a lot of regulatory oversight, but really hard in a constrained environment with little structure. "Working from first principles" sounds good, but is really hard to do in practice.

My experience is also that the more you remove those first world resources, with the extreme being off-the-grid subsistence farming without the possibility of selling your produce at market, the more skill and knowledge is required. Any idiot can run a photocopying machine -- if you can push the glowing green button, you have every skill needed for the job (an assertion I can make with the experience of an entire summer pushing that damn green button). But to know what to plant, when to plant it, and how to plant it, with the knowledge that if you fuck it up, your family will not eat, takes a great deal of sophistication and experience.

Me? If you dropped me into the year 1000, I'd probably be kept in a cage and displayed as a curiosity. If I was lucky I'd hook up with a monastery and quick learn Latin and hope that some of the skills of being an intellectual now translate into being an intellectual then. I'd be relying on the fact that the basic structure of how teaching and universities operate has changed little in the last thousand or so years, although the subjects taught have changed greatly.
posted by Forktine at 10:00 AM on June 11 [4 favorites]

Oh, and congratulations, you've probably caused the deaths of millions of people what with all your modern diseases and such.

Where do you think the Black Death came from?

Goddamn time travelers.
posted by brundlefly at 10:01 AM on June 11 [7 favorites]

Go to Iraq.
posted by swift at 10:01 AM on June 11

And by Iraq I mean Mesopotamia.
posted by swift at 10:02 AM on June 11

Speak for yourself. I would think a modern engineer, particularly mechanical, civil or architectural could do very nicely even back in Roman times. These people had good empirical knowledge of a lot of things, but it was hardly thorough.

Lest Darkness Fall, by L. Sprague DeCamp. As I recall, one of the first things he invented after being transported to late Roman times was brandy, which this page says was not seen in Europe until the 12th century. A compass (12th century) would have been welcome, I'd think. De camp had his hero introduce double entry accounting, too.
posted by jamjam at 10:04 AM on June 11

The amazing part of this is that not only are so many of these absurdly far removed from reality, but they're absurdly far removed from reality for wildly disparate reasons. I mean, even ignoring the fundamental problems of language, foreignness, suspicion, serfdom, et cetera.

Due to having played Call of Duty, "you should be sweeping across Europe like an avenging god in no time"?

"Train as a master mason"?

"Teach them Bayes' Theorem"?
posted by Flunkie at 10:05 AM on June 11

The elephant in the room that the comments on that page consistently ignore is that approximately 51% of people that this happens to are shit out of luck no matter what they do.

Unless you landed on the doorstep of a convent, maybe. Actually, some sort of monastic order, particularly one with rules of hospitality, might be a good option regardless of gender. If they thought you were insane (babbling some unknown language, wearing weird clothes), they might take care of you. On the other hand, you'd have to hope they didn't decide you were communicating with evil spirits.
posted by Hypocrite_Lecteur at 10:06 AM on June 11

Forget me infecting them with the black death. I suspect they'd infect me, and I'd promptly die from some minor immunodeficiency that they'd built up a tolerance.
posted by Dave Faris at 10:07 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

I think we all know that time travel requires nudity.

Does that mean no glasses? If so, I would wander off a cliff within hours and die.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 10:09 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

These people seem to have very little understanding of what life was like in 1000 AD.

I'd like to rephrase my previous post: people seem to have very little understanding of what life was like in 1000 AD.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:12 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Oooh, I should check out that De Camp book. He also wrote this, which is one of the books I'm basing my comments on.

...most first-world carpenters, engineers, architects, etc, have great difficulty providing anything of value when you take away the things they rely upon...

This is true, but I have to believe that after a few frustrating weeks of trying to point and click a hunk of chalk, they'd start hitting their stride. Keep in mind that they won't have to build something at the cutting edge of 2008, just something ahead of 1000.

The fact of the matter is that some contemporary person had to invent all this stuff the first time, and they didn't have the benefit of foreknowledge, correct paradigms or tidily summed up education of the hard-won knowledge. (Although the hard-winning of knowledge is often of value itself...) That proves that the idea of a modern person being dropped in and doing the same isn't really infeasible, for at least some people.
posted by DU at 10:12 AM on June 11

Oh, and congratulations, you've probably caused the deaths of millions of people what with all your modern diseases and such. Not "New World" dieback levels, but it wouldn't be pretty either.

You better hope it ain't your ancestors that die off.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 10:13 AM on June 11

Since I'm over 6ft tall i'd be a giant. Hire myself out as a mute enforcer.
posted by xjudson at 10:14 AM on June 11

When what's more likely is...

Well, duh. But that makes for a less entertaining ChatFilter.
posted by everichon at 10:20 AM on June 11

The thing that always comes to my mind is to go in to business making compasses, assuming you could scrounge up a lodestone. They weren't introduced until 1300 in Europe, so you'd have a sure monopoly. Of course, convincing everyone that you're not a witch would most surely be the first order of business.
posted by noble_rot at 10:21 AM on June 11

Wasn’t there a thread recently about how the engineer-hero-going-back-in-time-making-steamengines tyoe story was beginning to form it’s own distrinct Sci-Fi sub genre, and how the people writing it are usually full of all kinds of right-wing twaddle?

Still, I quite like Charles Strosses Merchants books, which deal with similar themes, though cheat and sidestep the “dying instantly” problem by giving the world-jumping heroine a set of relatives in the 11th century style parallel world she visits.
posted by Artw at 10:22 AM on June 11

What's really more likely is that YOU DON'T TRAVEL BACKWARDS IN TIME.
posted by everichon at 10:23 AM on June 11 [7 favorites]

And how do you know he is a witch?

Warlocks! Apologies to Benny Hill. Witches are female.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:24 AM on June 11

In all the comments here, on Boing Boing, on the original blog, I can't believe that I appear to be the only nerd who's read Leo Frankowski's Conrad Stargard novels. Engineer goes back in time to medieval Poland, changes the course of history?
posted by padraigin at 10:27 AM on June 11

OK folks, we're talking about 100 AD here, not the times of plagues and urban blights. This is a fairly well fed, sparsely populated rural culture here. Yes, there is no public sanitation, but the population is sparse enough to get away with pooping in the fields and drinking stream water. The people are fairly tall, so tall mdern people wouldn't be complete freaks. This is because they have a good, dairy and meat filled diet and lack many of the diseases that come with urbanization, some 200 years in the future.

You would probably get people you did encounter sick with foreign strains of colds and flu from Asia and America, but not many, since, as I said, the sparse, rural population doesn't lend itself to epedemics like the 1200's urbanization does.

These aren't the most educated lot, but they aren't complete dolts either. They'd probably take you for a foreigner rather than a witch or briggand. You could probably convince folks that you are a foreign priest.
posted by Pollomacho at 10:28 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Artw, Eric Flint's 1632 novels are exactly along those lines - libertarian West Virginians get sent into the middle of the 30 Years War and kick German ass. It's politically ridiculous but pretty fun, and free on the Baen Books website.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 10:30 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

...go in to business making compasses, assuming you could scrounge up a lodestone.

You can make a (weak) magnet by heating and striking a metal rod, IIRC. (And you can definitely do it by heating a metal rod and exposing it to a magnetic field, such as an electromagnet.) But a compass isn't quite as useful as you might think, in a world where everyone knows the sky and long-distance travel is uncommon.

...the people writing it are usually full of all kinds of right-wing twaddle...

It's definitely easy to fall into various kinds of racism, "acceptable" sexism and the lure of the Ayn Randian superhero with this kind of thing. Which, now that I think about it, makes the Connecticut Yankee's setting up of engineering schools kind of interesting.
posted by DU at 10:31 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

Yeah, Cool Papa Bell, I'd say boiling water is the best skill a time traveller would have. Even if you can't remember how to make soap, reverse engineer anything useful, make weapons or have any applicable survival skills you definitely know how to boil water. Sanitation skills will not only win you friends but also save yourself from dying off quickly. I feel bad for anyone with glasses because the likelihood of them breaking or getting stolen at some point in the rest of your life is quite high. I was paranoid as a kid about losing my glasses and all I would have had to endure is bumping into a few things and trying to figure out which bus is mine so I could get home.
posted by Hugonaut at 10:32 AM on June 11

Step 1: Introduce Europe to the ganja
Step 2: Whatever
posted by smackwich at 10:32 AM on June 11 [12 favorites]

This event described in the BBC series Inside the Medieval Mind, Episode 1" Knowledge might be closer to the reality of this little thought experiment than anything else ...

At the end of the 12th century, Ralph, the respected abbot of the monastery of Coggeshall, recorded an extraordinary story involving the capture of a wild man who lived in the sea.

"It happened that the fishermen there were fishing out in the sea caught a wild man in their nets. They brought him to the castle as a wonder. He was naked and presented a human appearance in every part of his body. When taken to church, he showed no signs of reverence or belief. however often he saw holy things. He did not wish to utter a word, even when hung by the feet and subject to dire and frequent torture."

What is striking to us today about this strange and rather sad tale is that the abbot is less concerned to determine whether the story is true that to work out exactly what category of creature this might be. 'Was he a mortal man?' he asked. 'Or some fish in human form? Or a wicked spirit, lurking in the body of a drowned man?' The wild man eventually escaped back into the sea. His tormentors and Ralph of Coggshall are left to wonder what kind of creature this man was, and were there others like him, sharing their world?
posted by Dave Faris at 10:33 AM on June 11 [6 favorites]

Go to Iraq.

Yep. Or get to Cairo. Or Khorasan - the young Avicenna would be intrigued by your notions of medicine and might pay for a little tutelage. Hell, any middling city in the Middle East would boast a few faylasufs willing to hear you out on mathematics, geology, optics, physiology, chemistry, etc. If you were clever enough and knew Arabic well, then you could go into the natural philosophy business for yourself.
posted by Iridic at 10:33 AM on June 11

Just how easy would it be for a complete stranger to gain access to a nobleman? I also get the feeling most of the commentators don't realize that traveling through Europe is easy now, but a thousand years ago how long did it take to go from Paris to Rome, for example? The vast majority of people then would never have visited beyond the next village in their lifetimes.

As for the suggestions about acting "Christian"... hell. How many different sects were there back then? Every region would have had its distinctiveness of belief, bordering on outright heresy.

Recreating a watch? a steam engine? the printing press? You can get the time from a sundial and work from peasants, and who would read anything you had printed? Give me something from 1025 or 1050 to copy instead, something the locals could recognize without freaking out, that gave them an advantage.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 10:33 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I'd probably spend a lot of time chanting the very little latin I know - mostly fragments of the Lord's Prayer - and hope to God I make it to a convent before I get eaten by bears. I'm literate. Of course, if I arrive naked, the pagan tattoos may be a bit tricky to explain...
posted by Jilder at 10:36 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

Wasn’t there a thread recently about how the engineer-hero-going-back-in-time-making-steamengines tyoe story was beginning to form it’s own distrinct Sci-Fi sub genre, and how the people writing it are usually full of all kinds of right-wing twaddle?

Ah. It was the John Ringo thread, starting here.

Recently I saw what I assume was the latest John Ringo paperback prominently displayed in what I usually think of as a rather sensible bookshop, which was a bit weird. When I first heard of the guy and read samples of his stuff I'd assumed he was just some internet flake.
posted by Artw at 10:37 AM on June 11

Thou might feek to conftruct from the limbs of the birch an INTER-NETTE of fuch proportionf af to rival the FTREETF and FEWERF of ancient ROME in com-plexity and magnificence. Then thou might fofter the development of a myriad of myriadf of FITEF acroff thine internet, which FITEF would be dedicated to the EXHIBITION of IMAGEF and TEXT both FACRED and PROFANE. Moftly profane though.
posted by Mister_A at 10:37 AM on June 11 [31 favorites]

1) Arrive in past. Know you are awesome and handsome because of your better diet.
2) Use your awesomeness to meet king. If threatened, breakdance.
3) Impress king with awesomeness/breakdancing skills. Become Chancellor.
4) Perhaps build something awesome, you know, with gears and shit.
5) Seduce queen (see: breakdance), sire many half-royal, half-awesome progeny.
6) Upon death of king, rule country as regent through children.
7) Inscribe a message to your future self on clay/stone/metal tablets alerting yourself about your impending timetravel and the need for adequate breakdancing skills.

Here's a different way to think about the problem: the past is a foreign country. People do things their way, even if they're doing it wrong by your standards. Imagine suddenly arriving in a place where you don't speak the language, understand the culture, or identify with the people.

I think the best reasonable comparison would be the European missionaries who started going abroad to convert people beginning in the 18th century. These people studied for considerable lengths of time to try doing what you're all proposing, and in the vast majority of cases, they all failed. (Remember, they weren't just trying to spread the Good News; they were hoping to teach valuable skills to change the lifestyles of their adopted populations.) It took the strength of an imperial power backing them to bring about a fraction of the changes they hoped, and in all cases it was a matter of centuries before they were able to engineer the "become the king of the castle" scenario people in this thread are optimistically hoping will take a few days.

On the other hand, assuming you arrived in a friendly area (remember, just as now, not all places, even in the same country or geographic region, have the same cultural outlook), and assuming you kept your mouth shut, looked lost and lonely, and had some good luck, you might work out alright.

At the risk of being too academic, I think there's a large amount of "past colonialism" going on here, where people presume that showing a crowd of gullible idiots a few baubles, you'll be able to control them.

One last thing. I'd like the engineers in this thread to imagine themselves going about their business, happily engineering away, when a crazy foreigner wearing very odd clothes arrives, shouting at you in a totally foreign language that you're doing things all wrong. How would you respond? Honestly?
posted by awenner at 10:40 AM on June 11 [13 favorites]

Hmm. Learning Chaucer-speak or death... I think i might go with death.
posted by Artw at 10:40 AM on June 11

the past is a foreign country

What a novel concept!
posted by Pollomacho at 10:43 AM on June 11

I would like someone from the future to come and show me how to breakdance give me a learn-breakdancing pill.
posted by everichon at 10:43 AM on June 11

...a crazy foreigner wearing very odd clothes arrives, shouting at you in a totally foreign language that you're doing things all wrong. How would you respond?

Call the police.

But what if a polite, subdued foreigner showed up and watched what I was doing for a while, then made a couple of mute suggestions that worked better?
posted by DU at 10:44 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I suppose blowing bubbles would be out of the question for lack of refined soap. Too bad.
posted by jamjam at 10:50 AM on June 11

There's one thing so many people overlook about the past:

OMG THE SMELL! THE SMELL
posted by drezdn at 10:51 AM on June 11 [5 favorites]

I think I'd try to find some rural people who might interpret my fine-woven fine-(machine)stitched fitted clothes as a sign of wealth and foreignness, pretend to be lost, and hope the concept of "show this guy some hospitality and maybe we'll get rewarded when he's back with his rich friends" occurs before the concept of "This dude is so bizzare - he must be one of those Eurasian/Heathen/whoever-we're-at-war-with dudes the priest was telling us about. He's probably a noble too - maybe we'll get rewarded if we...".
Hopefully that can be stretched out long enough to buy enough time to learn some pidgeon language and come up with a Plan.

Funnily enough, even just one of our wristwatches (I still wear one, doesn't need batteries) would be a military device sufficient to build empires on - but the chances of this ever being recognized as such, even if you tried to make a point of it, are next to nothing. And if it was recognised... well, better hope it's not my wrist in the watch at the time, 'cos some might think that the watch is worth more than I am. :-/
posted by -harlequin- at 10:52 AM on June 11

Well, good sir, I am trained in journal-ism and the science of politic. I have some ideas on how to properly instill democratic values and inform the peasantry…

No, no, wait! I also know how to make entertaining lawn bowling games! They're the precursor to pinball!

Did I mention that I'm a vegetarian?

Well, really, I'd prefer if you just crushed my head with a rock or something. But if burning's what you've got…
posted by klangklangston at 10:53 AM on June 11 [6 favorites]

And how do you know he is a witch?

Warlocks! Apologies to Benny Hill. Witches are female.

Wrong. No such thing as a warlock, among real witches. Male and female, a witch is a witch.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 10:54 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I'm trying to think of a woodworking thing that wouldn't have been invented in 1000 A.D., but that wouldn't be so out there that I'd be burned for witchery. Maybe a treadle lathe?
posted by drezdn at 10:55 AM on June 11

But what if a polite, subdued foreigner showed up and watched what I was doing for a while, then made a couple of mute suggestions that worked better?

I get freaked out when people I know stand mute and watch me work (and ticked off when they try and meddle in what I'm doing), so I imagine that the silent foreigner in the shiny silver jumpsuit wouldn't fare any better.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 10:55 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

It's an interesting thought exercise. Thinking that any sort of machining would be difficult, especially with out much knowledge of mineral location/extraction, I thought an electrical motor might actually be easier to make in 1000 AD than a steam engine, but then I wondered how to get the wire (would they have had wire?).

If you were trying to ingratiate yourself, some knowledge of woodworking history might come in handy as many of the techniques don't require especially advanced technology, but just the cleverness to have thought "hey let's do it this way."
posted by drezdn at 11:00 AM on June 11

First step: carve or otherwise fashion a cross out of wood and hang it around your neck. Given the religious environment at the time, this may buy you time to implement other plans, especially if your first encounter was to show up at the door of a monastery as a pilgrim from a foreign land.

Monasteries often allowed pilgrims lodging as a matter of course, the language barrier wouldn't be as critical since some language difference would be expected, your different appearance would be less an issue for the same reason. The monastery would be a relatively safe place where you might learn basic Latin if there a while. You might be able to get local clothing (a simple robe) there, as well.

Regarding Latin, even if you don't speak it, there are probably many phrases that many folks know that could be helpful. Aside from the many mundane phrases in common usage today, there are some religious ones that could be useful. For example, "Gloria in excelsis Deo" is known by many folks today from the Christmas carol. "Kyrie eleison" may not be too familiar to many folks outside of the Christian faith, but it was even part of a popular rock song 20 years ago.

Using these phrases would clearly indicate at least partial education and your belonging as a Christian. Sing them repeatedly and you may even get the reputation for being a particularly devout member of the community. The monastery is a good first step because it is a more protective environment until you get on your feet, culturally and otherwise. It's the best place to get sick, too, for that matter.

If you can, try to start contributing to the monastery life in some way to become a longer-term resident. Help out the hospitaller, the cellarer, etc. After six months or more, you should have been able to pick up basic Latin as well as the religious culture of the time. You could stay and help improve the hospitaller's effectiveness (boil water, wash hands, isolate patients) or cellarer's efforts (accounting practices, etc.) or work on your own projects after you've proven your value (i.e., invent an inkpen that doesn't require quills and inkpots, make simple dyes that can be sold by the monastery for a lot of money, etc.).

Or, if you feel comfortable enough with the Latin and have made some contacts outside of the monastery, you could strike out on your own using these contacts as a support network. Work as a clerk for a local merchant, etc. With your Latin and religious culture understanding, you could pass as a wandering priest and be generally protected from violence as well as being able to prevail upon folks' hospitality. Or, you could set yourself up as a scribe/scholar, which would pay the bills while you worked on inventions. Eventually you may catch the attention of a noble, who may want to become your patron, especially if you're inventing some useful or valuable items.

But the key is surviving those first few days, weeks and months. I think the monastery may be the best option for that.
posted by darkstar at 11:01 AM on June 11 [4 favorites]

I think we'll all have to buy some gold, and keep it on our person at all times, from now on.
Just In Case.

And just to be safe (in case the time travel works on Terminator physics), keep the coins with you via the Pulp Fiction wristwatch method.
posted by -harlequin- at 11:02 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I can't believe that I appear to be the only nerd who's read Leo Frankowski's Conrad Stargard novels

I can't believe that you admitted it.

Leo Frankowski: as far as I am aware the only author ever dropped from Baen's stable because of the quality of his writing.
posted by Justinian at 11:09 AM on June 11

At the risk of being too academic, I think there's a large amount of "past colonialism" going on here, where people presume that showing a crowd of gullible idiots a few baubles, you'll be able to control them.

Well if it worked the past, why wouldn't it work in the past?

And if the baubles don't get their attention, shoot a few. That worked in the past too.
posted by three blind mice at 11:11 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

No such thing as a warlock
That sounds suspiciously like something a witch would say. Burn him! Burn him!
posted by aramaic at 11:11 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Learn lots of slight of hand magic, and other "street" entertainments. Ventriloquism, sword swallowing, juggling, etc. Those don't require language to make a living.
posted by Ragma at 11:12 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

No such thing as a warlock

My in-depth knowledge of wiccan etiquette should serve me well... oh noes! Fire! Fire! Burnings!
posted by Artw at 11:14 AM on June 11

I'd coin Oddman's Razor (screw Occam). Then write about the Oddmanist Veil of Ideas (screw Locke). I'd convince everyone to be an Oddmanist about causation (screw Hume). I'd write Oddman's Meditations on First Philosophy (screw you Descartes). I'd tell everyone about the number zero. And I'd invent the coordinate system (once again, screw you Descartes).

I'd likely go down in history as one of the world's greatest thinkers.*


* Or I'd die in like a week. Half-dozen of one, six of the other.
posted by oddman at 11:16 AM on June 11

Invent Champaign:
This may or may not take-off right away.

I find it hard to believe that most of these people can survive in the present day.
posted by ND¢ at 11:18 AM on June 11 [5 favorites]

Go associate with the Shaftoes & Waterhouses. They are badasses throughout the ages.
posted by Pronoiac at 11:19 AM on June 11 [6 favorites]

Instead of stowing gold in my private places, I'd store the instructions for making saltpeter.
posted by drezdn at 11:22 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I would invent the tree-limb-with-a-nail-in-it, assuming there were nails. If not, I'd invent the tree-limb-with-a-rock-tied-to-it. Either way, I would be well equipped to flip out and kill people.
posted by Mister_A at 11:22 AM on June 11

I'd coin Oddman's Razor

Sadly Oddman, you did invent a time machine and invent Oddman's Razor, it's just everyone's been mis-saying it all these years.
posted by drezdn at 11:24 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

For those still invisioning some plague-filled, filthy feudal society in 1000 AD, here's a book for you.

Here is your geo-political map for reference.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:24 AM on June 11 [4 favorites]

I think a more interesting question is what is a minimum number of modern people, with what specific knowledge and skills between them, with how much and what specific equipment that they could bring with them, that, if magically transported to 1000 AD Europe, would have a decent chance of being able to sustain and defend themselves, as a community, indefinitely.

And also, a modification of the same question: "eventually become a dominant power" rather than "sustain and defend themselves".

I think the answer (to both) is a hell of a lot more than "one person with the clothes on his back". Maybe several hundred people with a wide range of knowledge and skill, and enough firepower and ammunition to be completely dominant (locally) for several years (until they've built their infrastructure to a degree sufficient to replace their modern stuff on the fly, which will take a long time).

One difficulty is that the knowledge and skills will have to not only include stuff like "electrical engineering", but also a hell of a lot of knowledge that's in short supply today, which will be required to actually bootstrap the infrastructure to a point that "electrical engineering" becomes in any way remotely relevant.
posted by Flunkie at 11:24 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

[Note: semi-tongue-in-cheek]

To be perfectly honest the very first thing I would do if transported back to 1000 AD would be to walk to the nearest fairly remote village, wait in the woods outside of it until midnight, creep into one of the smaller houses and use whatever was handy (knife, dagger, rope, etc.) to quietly murder the occupants before taking their clothes, food, a knife, wineskin, flint, bowl, and if they have anything like a knapsack, that as well.

It's not as if there's much in the way of rapidly responding law enforcement, and I'm probably in better shape as far as running long distances go if I bungle things. There's always the next village.

After the initial murder/theft I would spend the rest of the night walking alongside (but not on) the most visible dirt path to the nearest settlement, and if it was closer than five miles, the one after that. Clean getaway and thank heaven for non-existent communications infrastructure.

Most human settlements are near a water source, so I'd fill the skin with water from that, grab some local dried leaves, twigs, and branches and use the flint to start a fire. Pour water in the bowl, boil, drink, repeat to fill wineskin.

Now that I pass the first-glance check due to local garb, aren't in danger of starving, and nobody in the immediate vicinity has reason to suspect that I'm the source of a local murder, the next job is to learn the local language and accent.

The answer here is again a small village, again following *alongside* the network of dirt paths. I need to spend some time chatting with the villagers. This is tricky and may involve running away a few times - fortunately there are a lot of small villages. Walk up around noon, raise hand, say "hail" and pray they're friendly. Break bread with them at the first available opportunity. Try to get them to put me to work (I'm probably taller/stronger) doing manual labor for several weeks while I undergo the initial acclimatization.

Worst case, I may have to pull the murder/theft drifter routine a few times.

Once I have enough of the speech and customs down that I can pass as human in towns and larger settlements, we start getting places.

Time for assessment: what are the most valuable skills I have, from their perspective?

a) I know math better than any person living - up through intermediate calculus
b) I know physics better than any person living - Newtonian laws of motion, forces, etc.
c) I know some of the easier parts of chemistry better than any person living
d) I (as of five minutes ago, thanks Wikipedia) know how to make blackpowder from resources available in 1000AD (namely, manure and dank root cellar walls)
e) I know of the concepts of the heliograph and morse code, and I know of lodestones

I also have a bullshit detector about 10x more accurate than anybody living, I'm driven, ruthless, and most people of every era and locale are not.

With immediate survival assured, and the ability to perform at least basic social interactions, pursuit of broader goals becomes a possibility. Demonstrating the compass, the heliograph, and gunpowder to the wealthiest individual I can gain access to (this may have to start with a village leader or town mayor) and working my way up the chain is one route. End goals include court mathematician, merchant, or a senior military position focusing on developing tactics for units equipped with gunpowder and exploiting the heliograph for strategic purposes.

There's a lot of room for growth here, and I think I'll fare reasonably well once the initial rough period is over and if I can manage to get some toilet paper manufacture going.
posted by Ryvar at 11:26 AM on June 11 [5 favorites]

I'd try to accumulate knowledge of as many head slapping, retroactively obvious inventions that don't require prior arts. Then set myself up as a quiet genius somewhere.

Stuff like the crochet hook which wasn't invented until the 18th century yet lets anyone make cloth from yarn. Stone age peoples could make a crochet hook if they knew what it was.

Also the crank/cam and connecting rod weren't used for anything in this time period. Quite a bit to be done in the area of water pumping with simple tech converting rotary to linear motion.
posted by Mitheral at 11:33 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

One last thing. I'd like the engineers in this thread to imagine themselves going about their business, happily engineering away, when a crazy foreigner wearing very odd clothes arrives, shouting at you in a totally foreign language that you're doing things all wrong.

You've just described a consultant.
posted by joaquim at 11:33 AM on June 11 [39 favorites]

My answer there yesterday was

If you've managed to survive your arrival you might ingratiate yourself with the locals and then their lords by ameliorating their gout. Because people drank fermented beverages to avoid illness from bad water, gout was common. Colchicine, the extract of the meadow saffron, a common and easily recognizable purple-flowering plant, is effective in preventing and treating gout; it was known by the Romans but was not commonly prescribed in Europe until, I think, the 1400s. (Watch your dosage though - colchicine binds to tubulin and inhibits mitosis, so it can be lethal in high doses.)

but the interesting other answers - where by "interesting" I mean "what does the average geek today know that they could use to impress people in the year 1000", not "hey let's point out for the 1000th time that you wouldn't survive long, aren't I clever?", were: stirrup, compound bow, vanishing point and artistic perspective, prussian blue, hot-air balloon.
posted by nicwolff at 11:38 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

Stuff like the crochet hook which wasn't invented until the 18th century yet lets anyone make cloth from yarn.

That's rather odd since they find them in prehistoric archeological dig sites made from mammoth bone.
posted by Pollomacho at 11:39 AM on June 11

"What ye fucke is a beowulf cluster?"
posted by Artw at 11:41 AM on June 11

No such thing as a warlock
That sounds suspiciously like something a witch would say. Burn him! Burn him!

I'm not a witch, I'm not a witch!

I, uh, got better.
posted by Guy_Inamonkeysuit at 11:42 AM on June 11

That's rather odd since they find them in prehistoric archeological dig sites

There is no example of crochet from prior to the 1800s. Dig site ones are probably gutting hooks or the like, as crochet requires a great deal of thread and therefore reasonably advanced textile production.
posted by aramaic at 11:44 AM on June 11

Question for all the medievalists in the room: would our traveler fare better were he dropped into the Byzantine Empire?
posted by mdonley at 11:44 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

and quietly murder the occupants

Here's to the hope that fate doesn't put you on the doorstep of great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great Grandma and Grandpa Ryvar.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:45 AM on June 11

This thread is getting really crochety.

[click]
posted by Mister_A at 11:46 AM on June 11

Dave: the probability of that event is zero.
posted by Ryvar at 11:47 AM on June 11

hot-air balloon

How would you make the balloon part?

That's rather odd since they find them in prehistoric archeological dig sites made from mammoth bone.

THE TIME MACHINE IS ALREADY WORKING!
posted by drezdn at 11:47 AM on June 11 [3 favorites]

I think it's pretty much a given that causality is fucked.

Still, dropping a note to great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great Grandma and Grandpa to kill ye Hitler might be an idea.
posted by Artw at 11:47 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I hope someone messes with the time-space continuum and turns me and my family into dragons.
posted by Mister_A at 11:51 AM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Dave: the probability of that event is zero.

Oh, so you're willing to believe that a time machine could teleport you back to the year 1000, but you're not willing to believe that you'll run into your ancestor?
posted by Dave Faris at 11:52 AM on June 11 [1 favorite]

Well Dave, he's got a Wikipedia link on his side...
posted by Mister_A at 11:54 AM on June 11 [3 favorites]

Dave: meet an ancestor, sure. Kill an ancestor if they haven't already procreated, no, I couldn't do that even if I wanted to.
posted by Ryvar at 11:56 AM on June 11

I would arm myself with a stout stick, then venture into dungeons with low-level monsters (giant rats, kobolds) and kill enough of them to buy simple provisions while outfitting myself with better armor and weapons, continuing until I reach the upper bounds of level 12, kill the local dragon and live comfortably for the rest of my days.
posted by klangklangston at 11:57 AM on June 11 [27 favorites]

AHA! WHAT ABOUT THE GELATINOUS CUBE KLANG? IT WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH YOUR LEATHER ARMOR!!!
posted by Mister_A at 11:58 AM on June 11 [7 favorites]

Assuming I arrive fully clothed and with everything in my pockets.

1. Overcome language barrier.
2. Locate local blacksmith.
3. Display and explain Zippo (hastily renamed Jaredo) lighter.
4. Profit!
posted by JaredSeth at 11:58 AM on June 11

Kill an ancestor if they haven't already procreated, no, I couldn't do that even if I wanted to.

Why not? Are we positing some kind of causal protection that will physically stay your hand?
posted by Artw at 11:59 AM on June 11

Fascinating.

OK, theoreticians - how many of you could actually put these plans in action in the 20th century? That is, can you make a working steam engine, nitrogen fertilizer, et al, using first-millenium tools & resources (but without the burden of surviving in a first-millenium society)?

Ryvar's sociopathic plan (at 2:26 PM) seems about the most likely to work, although he may be underestimating the ability of a town to protect itself from strangers. Of course, he has the advantage of surprise... as long as no sleeping livestock nor dogs notice his approach (livestock will awaken dog, etc).

I spend a fair amount of time studying the medieval period, speak 2-1/2 medieval languages, have the survival skills to identify edible plants & mushrooms in the wild & build emergency shelter, and wouldn't give myself more than a small chance of survival. FWIW.

My best piece of advice: if you knew you were going, memorize the Lord's Prayer in Latin. That will save your ass in court... or at least get you a cleaner execution.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:00 PM on June 11 [2 favorites]

You've just described a consultant.

No, I think Ryvar better described a consultant.
posted by peeedro at 12:00 PM on June 11 [2 favorites]

crochet requires a great deal of thread and therefore reasonably advanced textile production.

More than weaving?
posted by Pollomacho at 12:00 PM on June 11

Ryvar's sociopathic plan

In my own defense, the question was how to survive, not how to survive and be a nice guy.
posted by Ryvar at 12:05 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

If I fell through a wormhole to 1000 AD, first I'd go on my iPhone and twitter that I've been sent back to 1000 AD and could everyone email me how to do stuff in 1000 A.D. Then I'd start taking pictures of cool shit and post them to my flickr account. I'd update my facebook page to let every know that I've been sent back into the past and so I won't be able to make the Vampire Weekend show tomorrow.

When I got a spare moment, I'd compose a livejournal post about how it's depressing to be in the past, and that I was depressed. Next, I'd check metafilter to see if anyone had linked to my flickr account. Then I'd try to trade bead and blankets for native crafts to sell on etsy.

Later, I'd rock out to Hawkwind MP3s because Hawkwind rocks.

Finally, I'd ride a dinosaur, because I always wanted to, and now I'd finally have a chance to.

Easy Peasy
posted by drezdn at 12:05 PM on June 11 [15 favorites]

build a boat, discover the new world!!

(or die trying)
posted by mannequito at 12:05 PM on June 11

On posting, I discovered that klangklangston at 2:57 PM already posted the real shizznizz. So, ignore my advice. Go with the K.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:05 PM on June 11

>Ryvar's sociopathic plan

In my own defense, the question was how to survive, not how to survive and be a nice guy.


Why do you need a defense? The plan is sociopathic. That doesn't make it unworkable, or even inadvisable.
posted by IAmBroom at 12:07 PM on June 11

"He did not wish to utter a word, even when hung by the feet and subject to dire and frequent torture."

That's it, time travel is right out. Pity, I know some Latin and everything.
posted by languagehat at 12:08 PM on June 11

Seriously, I do not understand statements like "I also have a bullshit detector about 10x more accurate than anybody living."

The 20th century did not invent con artists and bullshiteers. People in the past were not bumbling around like big trusting babies.
posted by prefpara at 12:08 PM on June 11 [3 favorites]

Kidding aside (???) I think some basic horsemanship would help out. Also, one should know how to slaughter and butcher animals, build a decent fire, etc. Boy Scout stuff would really come in handy in the year 1000.
posted by Mister_A at 12:09 PM on June 11

prefpara: The 20th century didn't invent critical thinking, either, but it greatly increased the supply. My parents have this encyclopedia-style tome from the late 1800s, and you would not believe how ridiculous some of the bullshit in there was.

That aside, the question here is really - am I more likely, in the event of being whisked away to 1000AD, to become the snake-oil salesman or the snake-oil buyer? The charlatan magician or his duped audience? The priest or the petitioner?

I already know those things are bullshit. The audience doesn't. This isn't a question of intelligence, it's a question of knowledge - and as a result regardless of my relative intelligence I'm in way better shape to filter out the noise than nearly every man alive in 1000 AD.
posted by Ryvar at 12:19 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

To hell with Europe, drop me in Tahiti in 1000 AD.
posted by Floydd at 12:25 PM on June 11 [2 favorites]

More than weaving?
Yes. Some folks think crochet can't exist on a large scale without industrial cotton thread production. Not homespun. Which, naturally, tends to imperil the usefulness for 1000AD.
posted by aramaic at 12:29 PM on June 11

There was an update to this question today. The new variation on the question is:

"So if the typical person today couldn't hack it in 1000 AD (I agree that we probably can't) What is the furthest back someone from today could go and have a fighting chance to make ends meet?"
posted by bove at 1:09 PM on June 11

Horsemanship would be very good. Fencing or archery even better. Send back a clever strapping twenty-something male with these skills and he could probably do well. For a woman, the convent is still the best bet.

Floydd has the best idea.
posted by Ber at 1:21 PM on June 11

Fencing? I think you mean sword-fighting. Or knife-fighting. I don't think a mediæval knight would fence with you so much as crush or impale you, depending on what you were wearing. More likely, you would never see a knight or anything like that. You are more likely to run into someone with a knife and an empty belly than someone who will want to fence with you. But I still think you have the right general idea, esp. archery - you could get some chow, as long as you're not poaching the sheriff's lands!
posted by Mister_A at 1:25 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

If everyone is so interested in prehistoric crocheting, then someone should make an FPP about it already.
posted by TwelveTwo at 1:28 PM on June 11 [2 favorites]

Wow, sounds like Ryvar's read one too many of the aforementioned nerdgasm sci-fi novels.

I already know those things are bullshit. The audience doesn't. This isn't a question of intelligence, it's a question of knowledge - and as a result regardless of my relative intelligence I'm in way better shape to filter out the noise than nearly every man alive in 1000 AD.

Bullshit. Even assuming you found someone even a little bit interested in your l33t Wikipedia skillz, you wouldn't be able to speak their language (metaphorically speaking). Scientific concepts don't work in a vacuum, without a scientific community willing to accept them; you would need to be able to translate all your knowledge into terms a contemporary scholar could handle. Notice that this is well before the rise even of medieval Aristotelianism, much less the Scientific Revolution. Hence your ability to "see through the bullshit" would leave you lonely, lost, and regarded by any intellectual worth his salt as a deluded crank. Worse, a crank who doesn't have the Book of Micah memorized and isn't able to refer casually to St. Augustine.

Even after gunpowder was invented, it took centuries before gunpowder-based weapons became as effective as longbows--centuries of craftsmen working on nothing but guns. What you take for granted as a gun is the product of this technical development, which is not something that can be known theoretically but has to be developed in practice. To make an adequate gun, you need high-quality metal, facilities for working, mining, and producing that metal, knowledge of ballistics and medieval gunsmithing, and most importantly the ability to effectively teach all of those skills to someone else. Keep in mind that this is not a society where trades are flexible and open about learning new techniques--you were bred to a trade from adolescence and you did almost exactly the same things as your father did.

In short, effectively deploying gunpowder would entail a complete transformation of medieval society. To think that even the most open-minded leader would take on a reform of this kind for the sake of some nasal-voiced outsider who doesn't even know how to joust or hunt, and who would most likely get himself killed while demonstrating his new invention, is just beyond belief.

Compass? Heliograph? Nifty, but unlikely to get you very far in a society that was the very opposite of meritocratic. Even seven hundred years later, during the innovation-obsessed Enlightenment, obviously worthwhile inventions often just withered on the vine and their inventors died in obscurity.
posted by nasreddin at 1:40 PM on June 11 [9 favorites]

"So if the typical person today couldn't hack it in 1000 AD (I agree that we probably can't) What is the furthest back someone from today could go and have a fighting chance to make ends meet?"

Probably 1980, and only with a decent supply of weapons.
posted by darkripper at 1:41 PM on June 11 [19 favorites]

Mister_A, I was thinking of fencing skills that could be applied to sword-fighting. Given the size, speed, and strength of a young 21st Century male and with the necessary ruthlessness, you could hold your own. And yes, archery would be even better.
posted by Ber at 1:42 PM on June 11

What is the furthest back someone from today could go and have a fighting chance to make ends meet?

1956.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:42 PM on June 11

I reckon I could get by in 1985. I still have my hair.
posted by surfdad at 1:42 PM on June 11

If everyone is so interested in prehistoric crocheting

I think ND¢ has that covered here.
posted by dersins at 1:43 PM on June 11

Right on Ber! Saddle up, we got some smitin' to do!
posted by Mister_A at 1:44 PM on June 11

but only if I could take my credit score with me.
posted by surfdad at 1:44 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

This is wanking, you know.
posted by Burhanistan at 1:44 PM on June 11

Nonsense, darkripper; I haven't even changed my hairstyle since the Carter years. I'd make it back to 1976, easy.

/... nor my underwear...
// (Sorry for the slashies - thought I was on Fark for a second there)
posted by IAmBroom at 1:54 PM on June 11

In the year 1000, I think most disposable razors still had only a single blade. My innovation will be revolutionary.
posted by maxwelton at 2:12 PM on June 11 [10 favorites]

There's one thing so many people overlook about the past:

OMG THE SMELL! THE SMELL
posted by drezdn


Funny you mention that. About 20 years ago, when I was rather less pragmatic, I was taking a course in the Middle Ages at college. In one of the office hours, I asked the prof, Dr. William W. Wootten, "Wouldn't it be cool to have lived back then?" His response was a swift and abrupt "Oh, my God, no!"

I asked him why not. He said "Virtually no medicine, short life span, horrible rule of law, wars, working hard from dusk 'till dawn, no central heat or air conditioning, filth and ignorance everywhere and the SMELL must have been PHENOMENAL!"

He was a great prof and his response was an eye-opening insight for me, someone who had, until then, thought of the Medieval era with rather more romantic and idealized notions.
...

I think we'll all have to buy some gold, and keep it on our person at all times, from now on. Just In Case.

posted by -harlequin-

Or, you might consider a pocket full of colored rhinestones or cubic zirconia that could be sold as gems. Much cheaper, lighter (easy to transport). You can sell them in the larger marketplace as exotic gemstones for a mint. Just hire bodyguards, otherwise, you won't be enjoying your windfall very long.
posted by darkstar at 2:15 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

*working hard from dawn 'till dusk

hehe
posted by darkstar at 2:16 PM on June 11

With warning, I could get solar panels, & put Wikipedia on my ipod. Per Stross' Merchant Princes, a patent database & possibly geographical surveys would also be sweet. (Oh, that was sorta in TFA.)
posted by Pronoiac at 2:19 PM on June 11

"AHA! WHAT ABOUT THE GELATINOUS CUBE KLANG? IT WILL EAT RIGHT THROUGH YOUR LEATHER ARMOR!!!"

You use fire on them, or avoid them. They're not very fast.

Oh, and as should be clear from the "max out at 12," we're talking D&D rules here, not NETHACK, where I'd no doubt be killed by giant ants (AGAIN!).
posted by klangklangston at 2:24 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

What is the furthest back someone from today could go and have a fighting chance to make ends meet?

1956.

[Looks down at skin, notices pigmentation, dreads, piercings and tatoos.] Uhh...nope.

I'd be really fucked if I suddenly found myself in 1000 AD Europe. Luckily if I were suddenly transported to that time and place I have some modern technology which would make things a lot easier: a nice, strong leather belt, which I could use to hang myself and just get it over with rather than waiting for stabby, burny, or germy death.
posted by lord_wolf at 2:28 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

I'm just glad to learn I'm not the only one's who's considered this.

I'd get myself to a monastery, act pious, work my ass off and hope for the best.
posted by Kattullus at 2:34 PM on June 11

Question for all the medievalists in the room: would our traveler fare better were he dropped into the Byzantine Empire?

Pick a scenario: IANAM

The good scenario: You don't get landed somewhere where a regional dialect you don't understand is spoken and manage to reach the nearest monastery and stay there. Your ability to read and copy ecclesiastical texts and knowing basic Greek prayers/ancient texts comes in handy. You become a scribe and long for copy/paste, photocopies and Project Gutenberg. The monks will know better ancient Greek and Latin than you, but with a bit of luck you can splurge in texts that are lost for us.

The bad scenario: You are forcibly enlisted in the army of Basil II and die fighting the Bulgarians.
posted by ersatz at 2:35 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

This is wanking, you know.

No. It's this.
posted by Dave Faris at 3:02 PM on June 11

Ryvar's sociopathic plan (at 2:26 PM) seems about the most likely to work, although he may be underestimating the ability of a town to protect itself from strangers.

Yeah, you know what? They had people with exactly that plan wandering around back then, and they pretty much knew how to deal with them, without even dialing 911.

Also, nasreddin is absolutely correct.
posted by languagehat at 3:02 PM on June 11 [5 favorites]

What is the furthest back someone from today could go and have a fighting chance to make ends meet

It's not necessary monotonic like that. I feel vaguely like I'd have better chances appearing in the middle of Rome in its heyday, not like they'd be all that great.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 3:04 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

If I have the compass from my car and my solar powered watch I would invent longitude and be the only person who can navigate across worlds oceans.

When you look at the huge amount of money that successful ocean voyages earned, you could live pretty well off them.

BTW, my French is bad, and my spanish is worse, but, both are probably enough to convince somebody you speak a little bit of latin.
posted by Megafly at 3:05 PM on June 11

If I have the compass from my car and my solar powered watch I would invent longitude and be the only person who can navigate across worlds oceans.

When you look at the huge amount of money that successful ocean voyages earned, you could live pretty well off them.

Nah. Sailing vessels circa 1000 weren't nearly seaworthy enough for that kind of thing (and you can't haul much cargo in a Viking longboat, even if you could somehow convince them to try). Besides, you'd need a ton of seed money--good luck with that.
posted by nasreddin at 3:17 PM on June 11

effectively deploying gunpowder would entail a complete transformation of medieval society

As propellant for a bullet in a gun, yes. As the charge in a bomb or grenade, maybe not...
posted by nicwolff at 3:57 PM on June 11 [1 favorite]

As a 5'9" woman, I'd have no chance ("burn the giantess!"), but if I were a man, I'd go into the sale of "religious relics": dress as a priest and have handy "wood from the true cross," and other such items, which I think the extremely religious people of the time would be more gullible about.
posted by misha at 4:04 PM on June 11

warlock, n.1

4. One in league with the Devil and so possessing occult and evil powers; a sorcerer, wizard (sometimes partly imagined as inhuman or demonic, and so approaching sense 2 or 3); the male equivalent of witch (emph. added). Sc. and north. dial.

Frequently used by Scott, whence it has obtained some general literary currency. On the form warlock, specialized for this sense, see the etymology.

13.. E.E. Allit. P. B. 1560 Segges..{th}at wer wyse of wych-crafte & warla{ygh}es o{th}er. c1460 Towneley Myst. viii. 232 Pharao... Say, whence is yond warlow [Moyses] with his wand that thus wold wyle oure folk away? a1585 MONTGOMERIE Misc. Poems iii. 25 That witch, that warlok [sc. Fortune]..Turnis ay the best men tittest on thair bakis. 1685 G. SINCLAIR Satan's Invis. World 45 An eminent Warlock whose name was Robert Grieve. 1689 tr. Buchanan's De Jure Regni apud Scotos 65 No Thief or Warlike will willingly compear before a Judge to be judged. c1730 BURT Lett. N. Scot. (1818) I. 234 He was himself a warlock, or wizard, which they knew by his taking the witch's part. 1795 BURNS Song, ‘Last May a braw wooer’ v, I gaed to the tryste o' Dalgarnock, And wha but my fine fickle lover was there! I glowr'd as I'd seen a warlock, a warlock. 1816 SCOTT Bl. Dwarf v, ‘But you forget that they say he is a warlock,’ said Nancy Ilderton. ‘And, if his magic diabolical should fail him,’ rejoined her sister, ‘I would have him trust to his magic natural’. 1822 S. HIBBERT Shetl. Isl. IV. 576 The warlocks and witches of Thule used, by the same means, to raise tempests. 1840 BARHAM Ingol. Leg., St. Aloys, The gipsy..always sneaks out at night with the bats and the owls,--So do Witches and Warlocks, Ghosts, Goblins, and Ghouls. 1860 LONGFELLOW Wayside Inn I. King Olaf V. x, In their real forms appeared The warlocks weird, Awful as the Witch of Endor. 1865 BARING-GOULD Werewolves 29 In like manner the Danish king Harold sent a warlock to Iceland in the form of a whale. 1882 M. E. BRADDON Mt. Royal I. ii. 51, I am prepared to believe in witches--warlocks.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 4:04 PM on June 11

Bullshit. Even assuming you found someone even a little bit interested in your l33t Wikipedia skillz, you wouldn't be able to speak their language (metaphorically speaking). Scientific concepts don't work in a vacuum, without a scientific community willing to accept them; you would need to be able to translate all your knowledge into terms a contemporary scholar could handle. Notice that this is well before the rise even of medieval Aristotelianism, much less the Scientific Revolution. Hence your ability to "see through the bullshit" would leave you lonely, lost, and regarded by any intellectual worth his salt as a deluded crank. Worse, a crank who doesn't have the Book of Micah memorized and isn't able to refer casually to St. Augustine.

I'm sorry, but you're pretty clearly more interested in a oneupmanship pissing match to boost your ego than anything, so this is going to be brief-

I wasn't talking about Wikipedia skills or any such thing. What I'm talking about is the tendency of people in that era to fall for snakeoil salesmanship, religion, and other sociological forces used to deflect them from achieving. It's not a question of convincing them, it's a question of how effective I would be at manipulating others by preying on the irrational fears of the era versus how ineffective others would be at manipulating me by the same token. It has nothing to do with trying to impart a scientific worldview on 11th century peasants or even intellectuals - of course that's impossible.

Even after gunpowder was invented, it took centuries before gunpowder-based weapons became as effective as longbows--centuries of craftsmen working on nothing but guns. What you take for granted as a gun is the product of this technical development, which is not something that can be known theoretically but has to be developed in practice. To make an adequate gun, you need high-quality metal, facilities for working, mining, and producing that metal, knowledge of ballistics and medieval gunsmithing, and most importantly the ability to effectively teach all of those skills to someone else. Keep in mind that this is not a society where trades are flexible and open about learning new techniques--you were bred to a trade from adolescence and you did almost exactly the same things as your father did.

I am intimately familiar with the history and internal mechanics of firearms from early China to the modern era, including the limitations imposed upon them by the industrial capabilities of their era. Check my posting history. Specifically what I was thinking of employing were Ribauldequins which were achieved with pre-Renaissance engineering. Even if one could successfully argue that this would stretching the capabilities of 11th century engineering, crude mortars as employed by the early Ottoman Empire are within the grasp of any civilization with metal-working capabilities.
posted by Ryvar at 4:31 PM on June 11